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tv   Inside Story 2017 Ep 345  Al Jazeera  December 13, 2017 3:32am-4:01am +03

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and she turned her face to. then we can begin to lay out. a roadmap of what we might be willing to work or. voters in the u.s. state of alabama choosing the next senator in the high stakes raised republican candidate really more was accused of sexual abuse is pitted against democratic rival dow jones moore has been doors five president trump despite the many controversies surrounding him french president dominion mccoll has warned world leaders that they are losing the battle on tackling climate change has been speaking at a global summit on promoting renewable energy in paris hundreds of protesters gathered outside the county on demanding an end to government investment in fossil fuels at least one hundred seventy people are now known to have died in into clan fighting in south sudan's great lakes region clashes broke out in mali county last week between the rock and pacom clans the government has declared
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a three month state of emergency in the region and iberia's electoral commission has said the presidential runoff old for december twenty sixth the exit polls are george way of faces vice president joseph because of the ruling unity party in the run off liberia's supreme court in the poll a day before it was scheduled last month over allegations of voter fraud. you're up to date with headlines on al-jazeera coming up next here it's inside story. amnesty international says the european union is complicit in the abuse of refugees in libya it says european governments ignore rights violations and violent tactics
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used by the libyan coast guard so will this report help refugees this is inside story. hello welcome to the program i'm so ho rahman the mediterranean refugee crisis was the top story on every channel this fall out of the spotlight in recent months and that may be because refugee and migrant deaths are down significantly but amnesty international says many refugees are actually better off as migration routes to europe closed down hundreds of thousands have been forced back into detention centers in libya where they're often facing physical and sexual abuse amnesty says the european union hasn't just been aware of these abuses but is being complicit in them we'll get to our guests in a moment but first this report from in the hours that these images sparked outrage
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around the world african migrants at risk of being sold at auction in libya the accusation of modern day slavery triggered international concern and e.u. pledges to address the issue. but in a report by the human rights group amnesty international european governments are accused of not only being aware of these abuses but also actively supporting libyan authorities in stopping sea crossings and preventing refugees and migrants from leaving what we have in libya. it's a lawless country to start with and if it isn't migrants are treated like a commodity we heard about. slave auction just a week or two ago and here we are so essentially any migrant a refugee is pretty much criminalized you know italy has been singled out for criticism it's accused of beating efforts to fund libyan detention camps train
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libyan coast guards to intercept ships carrying refugees and migrants as well as encouraging libyan tribes in armed groups to work as border guards and misty also found those prevented from leaving libya face arbitrary detention torture forced labor extortion and death at the hands of the authorities traffickers as well as armed groups no european government official can claim to be unaware of what the libyan authorities that doing the kind of collective the kind of horrific suffering that people are facing inside libya so i think the approach of the european union is in order to protect their own borders they are ready to push people back at any cost and not respect even the basic rights of human beings libya is the main transit point for refugees and migrants trying to reach europe by sea nearly half a million people have made the dangerous crossing across the mediterranean over the past three years according to the un's migration agency in that time close to ten
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thousand people have died while attempting to make it to europe following the provision of ships training and funding from the e.u. and italy to the libyan coast guard amnesty found the number of arrivals to italy fell by nearly seventy percent between july and november compared with the same. period last year the number of refugees who died see has also reduced but it's not clear what future awaits the estimated twenty thousand migrants and refugees now in overcrowded and unsanitary detention centers across libya. for inside story. well let's bring in our guest for the edition of inside story in tunis on scott mohammad the jar novel is covering libya norm resident fellow at the atlantic council's rafi curry center for the middle east in london philip luther middle east and north africa research and advocacy director at amnesty international and from the european parliament in strasburg also on barea dutch member of the european
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parliament thank you all for joining us on this edition of inside story i felt please let me just begin with you in london you do represent mr no amnesty international it's a an explosive accusation to make at this moment in time why has i need amnesty decided to come to this conclusion with the evidence that you've collated well amnesty international has been researching the situation of refugees and migrants in libya for years now this latest report really tries to put a finger on the extent of the abuse inside libya and specifically inside detention centers that are run by the libyan authorities and what we find is that tens of thousands are held there in indefinite an arbitrary detention and they're exposed to really quite horrendous abuses torture extortion and bonded labor and that's why we're putting it out now and how do you coin that then into
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the e.u. being complicit how are they involved the european union and its elise in particular that has done most to pursue cooperation with with libya over particularly over the last year not only is it fully aware of these abuses but it has taken a host stream of measures in order to cooperate with the libyan authorities to stop . those seeking to cross the mediterranean from doing so and therefore forcing refugees in my. it's back into detention centers where they are at the mercy of not only the libyan authorities and the guards the control these tensions centers but also then a a network of of others militias traffickers and smugglers who who are contributing to that abuse let's let's go to the ferry in strasbourg
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listening intently to what philip luther had to say how do you respond to that as a member of the european parliament than also as a representative of the netherlands as well as a country that is very supportive of migration and the problems that individuals have had in their own respective nations where there has been civil strife all this afternoon we are actually in beijing with the e.u. foreign policy chief exactly about what this show is about is the situation in libya and to which extends the e.u. is involved or can be called responsible for what's happening there so it's very much in the mind of the european parliament you know and i think it's not only amnesty but resources of c.n.n. report we had already stories from doctors without borders we speak to people arriving in italy and telling us about the horrendous stories that are happening inside libya the facts i think are key and well recognized the question is here in
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to which extent is the e.u. capable of you know we are not to want hosting hosting those reception centers we're trying to do training for the coast guard without a monitoring system i think that's a that's a very big big problem here but you can also not say the e.u. shouldn't do anything and let all the people drown or little people just cross to the european union so politically it's not so easy to find a solution for this problem which is respectful of the human rights of migrants and the refugees in libya and let me bring in the jar here it's very interesting isn't it you have a scenario. and if i could just generally say you know libya is a failed state in the sense that we've seen civil war and strife in the country with no real functioning government that controls the whole area you've got the e.u. on the outside of those borders trying to protect itself but also trying to finance agencies within libya that can try and control the migration problem and there the
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gray area is how they don't want to be involved in the internal affairs of a foreign country that's the first thing that any of the twenty eight member bloc would say i mean from within libya the way you would see this is that the european union or the taliban government in this case is trying to delegate the task of stopping migrant or making sure that we bring the numbers of migrants crossing the sea down to a libyan government that really does not exist on the ground. because what we have is a libyan government that cannot provide for its own citizens in libya where you have one point three million libyans at the moment according to the united nations in urgent need of the humanitarian assistance and you are giving the task of intercepting and and detaining those migrants to a government that is overrun by militias
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a government that is control by militias and a government that contracted militias that are complicit in some cases in the abuses that we are talking about today how do you then deal with the scenario where a little shy to use the amnesty international secretary general mohammed says here on al-jazeera that the even like the u.n. hates the are has no access as you just mentioned there and that they would like to go in and do more research you can't do that in a situation that is so unstable you definitely cannot do that because human hits or person i would need to be what would need to have security who will provide that security if we can provide security for. and it's more any international organization to work then there you go part of the problem is solved that we do have security in libya the problem is that it's very difficult to achieve the security requirements for any international organization to operate and i think it's i mean i think there is a little bit of misunderstanding of the issue at hand here because we need to look
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back to the root causes the migrants where did they come from and why did they make this this this barony and many of them are not actually very poor compared to the standards of those that are left behind in the countries of origin these are people who have fallen so happy no money to make the journey and so on so what happens what's there is a business model that expands over of our continent not just country and then people are actually i mean the smugglers are advertising their services and that model has to be has to be. i mean brokenshire it cannot continue like that and we should not focus just on one point of that journey and that is libya no i was going to matter that we don't know as i was going to vomit let me just come in i was actually going to mention this a bit later on in the program but you brought it in a lot earlier cathy can i come to you a lot of these migrants according to this in statistics from amnesty international sixty percent are from sub-saharan africa thirty two percent from north africa seven percent from asia in the middle east. it's africa is
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a huge continent in terms of those that come from it and those are transversing through it the internal issues of the democratic republic of congo nigeria needs share the congo they all have their own problems and therefore the reasons for people migrating through you might say an easy route such as libya at this present moment in time is understandable you can't solve all of africa's problems and therefore it has to stop some when it's stopping on the coastline of libya at the moment how is this conversation be foretold to start with before you will gather and talk about it in strasburg i mean the. and here in the european parliament there's a wide recognition is that we keep calling all these people coming whether they are in need of international protection or not we keep killing of illegal migrants but the only reason why we have to welcome illegal migrants because we don't have legal safe parkways for refugees to enter into europe and this is not course also the
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problem not only but in many other countries we only take here through legal means a very small number of people so already knows who survive to make it to the dangerous journey can actually call for international protection in europe so that's one thing we need to set up that safe and legal path but you know we were also faced with hundreds of people dying all along the side of the libyan coast this is not where the international organizations can do search and rescue missions so is it too cynical to think that least you are trying to train people coast guard and i understand a very hasty political situation in libya but you're trying to train them in order to save people now my criticism is is that we didn't put in any monitoring system there and then i think an amnesty report like this is so important to show us about the bare facts that we have complicity with gangs with militia in east and
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libyan coast guards and that's where i think you know also the e.u. parliamentarian is that spears money being made there we have to monitor for sure that it's not harming migrants we should improve their situation i'm going to play devil's advocate here philip can i think i have to i think if you are the e.u. and you want to try and help you can only help to a certain point as an elected official and if you're helping those for example in libya the coast guard various independent groups to try and either turn refugees back or get them into detention centers where they could be repatriated back to the national countries it is a start to a certain set of trying to find or keep people safe. it's all very well to bring the e.u. isn't it with a simple word of that complicit to this but they have new control of the mainland of libya and that's the really big problem you have to sort the problem out there first where the european union does have control of for instance italy has control of is the the types of agreements that it enters into. and what we are saying and
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it's this is very important for me we are saying there is a bad a corporation at the moment there is cooperation at the moment that leads to the tional human rights violations now the alternative to bad corporation we're saying is not no corporation we're not suggesting that the european union or countries such as italy bilaterally should simply walk away. quite on the contrary we are saying that the european union potentially has a very important role to play and if we take just the issue of the libyan coast guard it's absolutely right as we've just heard a moment ago that. that effort should be made to support the libyan coast guard to rescue people at sea particularly in waters that are libyan territorial waters where they have a mandate to do so because the problem is then where the agreement allows the
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libyan coast guard not to save those individuals and then ensure they get to safety but then takes them back to as web of collusion whereby they are then held indefinitely and in her endless conditions in detention centers inside libya and it's that that's got to change ok most of the joy is that has got to change at this present moment in time where do we stand with the libyan authorities the the civil strife that is affecting the country in terms of finding some sort of real unity government including the military that would allow an environment to be safe for those that want to leave the shores of libya if they ever did. currently the country they did the country is de facto partition the e.u. have two different competing authorities one in the eastern part of the country and then you have the internationally recognized government. in the capital tripoli however that government again has only small control over
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a small part of of western and libya and most of those abuses that we were we hear about all we have been here hearing about are happening in areas that are no no man's land so i think a lot more should be done internationally and also regionally at making sure that we put more pressure on libyan actors to make sure that they come to the table and that there is a settlement soon enough so that we can create an environment conducive of uniting the state institutions making sure that we start to have some form of security or order. or or professional military to start to develop so that we can deal with many issues including the migration issue but also including the terrorism issue and a range of other issues that not only effect libya but effect its neighbors the region and also europe can bring your home port and all those subsaharan nations
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and some southern african nations as well as countries such as afghanistan and syria and iraq in terms of speaking to their own foreign cities about their own internal situations that will would deter. individuals from leaving their respective countries and staying in a stable safe happy country rather than thinking that europe is heaven on earth well i think leaving aside syria because i think we have there are more serious issues more serious issues there i think in general we need to have a long tour approach which is a captive and one of the criticisms i have one on the current approach by the european. union suddenly our foreign policy priority seems to be stopping migrants and this is of course not a way to enter into genuine dialogue with any country where we know that for a lot of african countries the return as they receive for migrants made it to europe are much bigger now where is the development money they are getting so we
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need to when it comes to refugees set up the legal cat ways to you when it's you are so they can find a safe haven they cannot find it in the region but you also need to think about legal cat ways for economic migrants but i think it's also so important when i speak to many young people in several countries in africa you know for dan they say the more we were poor it was seen as the biggest achievement to make it to europe and i think it's also the responsibility of all the political leaders including in africa to make sure that other ways to make it in life were to be seen as successful in just by making this very dangerous journey and sometimes having a very tough life maybe it here in europe philip luther in london how important is that statement the catch you made about the way that you know sub-saharan african countries need to really step up to the mark and look within themselves about their domestic policy when it comes to having unified nations that are not fractured and
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we've seen lots of civil wars it's absorbed in southern africa in recent years well it's very important in that it very much is that is that is the bigger picture and obviously if you look at then the range of individuals who pass through libya then some are indeed economic migrants they are ambitious searching for. a better economic future for themselves and others are coming from one torn countries. or indeed places where they are persecuted or risk of serious persecution on things of eritrea for instance where our dreads. thousands of of individuals have fled over recent years and some have passed through libya so we have a sleep can't put everyone into the. into the same basket and i just you know come back clearly there's a question of information so countries in sub-saharan africa you need to be
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providing that information to their citizens where countries then a broken down then clearly there are there are international protection concerns and that's why i just want to come back to this issue of u.n.h.c.r. the u.n. refugee and agency and of the role they have in libya because they are hamstrung there they don't have formal recognition it should be an essential step to the libyan authorities take they need to have access to refugees and migrants to be able then to make determinations and ensure that those who do need international protection do get it and you know and it's there are some places that are too dangerous for them to go but there are detention centers that are visited by humanitarian organizations and it is certainly possible for them to get them through very closely to the a to be involved program who can come to you in a europe where we're seeing countries like the czech republic and hungary be very anti migrant where we're seeing germany paying migrants that haven't reached the
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status or the vetting to have asylum being sent back to their native countries is europe still as attractive as a venue for those people that want to leave from libya maybe not libya nationals but those that you've been speaking to aid groups other academics have been speaking to people on the ground that want to leave want to find a better life is europe the place to be when you have this cauldron of say hate or mistrust brewing i think what's important i mentioned this point earlier it's you teaching about those who are trying to make the journey. about the journey it's so . about the abuses about the dangers that they face and also about the realities in europe as well and the fact that the that european communities and the rise of the far right in europe etc is having an effect on these countries this is an important conversation but this is the responsibility i think of. african leaders african
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n.g.o.s and international n.g.o.s working in those countries and i just wanted to comment on the issue of u.n. hate c.r. despite the fact that they do not have the official recognition in libya i have learned recently that they have actually issued but if you see status cut to thirty four thousand migrants in libya now who is ready to accept those thirty four thousand that have been issued this this status by the u.n. hate c.r. even if we do have that it's it is a very sensitive issue politically that which country is willing to accept those migrants and there is another point how many people will you have in detention centers in libya what to twenty thousand forty thousand we're talking about hundreds of thousands here ok hundreds of thousands of migrants that are making this journey and they are looking for a better life and they need to be given an option either back home in their countries of origin or somewhere else where they can have a better life ok mom thanks kathy just
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a very quick final statement here nearly two years ago we saw the body of little alan kurdi a three year old syrian boy lundahl a turkish teacher those images we're going to show our viewers right now and he went right through to congress john mccain in the u.s. also talking about it on every national newspaper and media organization those pinchers hold the global community in fifteen seconds very briefly can you tell me do those pictures those images still hold to you and members of the european parliament to me personally yes but i think much of the misery is now hidden from our eyes and that's why you see less of a political debate there if you know. just a horrible journey people have to go through before reaching libya that is not taped on our debt is not coming on i knew shelves that is not visible for us and i can tell you those pictures must be just as awful as the bodies or that people are coming to our shores ok well there for the men we have to leave it to i'd like to
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thank all of my guests my mother jar phillip luther and cathy berry in tunis london and strasburg thank you for your time and thank you for watching this edition of inside story you can watch the program again any time by visiting our website at al-jazeera dot com of a further discussion go to our facebook page at facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter one hundred is at a.j. inside story i'm still running from all the team thanks very much for your time and your company. and new perspectives can change. the one chin is ian what began as
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a hobby has grown into a passion a way of life. teaching the next generation to strive for a higher level. and ensoul instilling in his country a sense of freedom and strength. new heights my chin is iyad at this time on al-jazeera. cool.
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the world's largest humanitarian crisis millions caught up in civil war alters the real world examines the roots of the conflict in yemen and the complex history that drew a country into perpetual time of. separation on. the north and the south these dualisms are a part of history. yemen the north south divide this time.
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and i'm fully back to go with a look at our main stories here on. set.

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