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tv   The Stream 2019 Ep 150  Al Jazeera  September 19, 2019 5:32pm-6:01pm +03

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if you really cared about the earth but as a major corporation as a government why would it be in their interests to sign up for an international law that would actually question their judgment many have explained how many instances just an injury alone where the government was responsible for the terrible things that were happening to the environment allegedly i should say i think what we're dealing with here is the huge disconnect between the economic structures by which we live and the reality of how we depend on the world around us we're not ultimately here we're not fighting climate change light the anyone try to fight on negotiate with the hurrican what we're fighting is a mindset what we're even if there's a struggle here it's between a way of looking at the world that treats the earth as an infinite resource which we already know categorically that it's not. and which treats economic growth as some kind of you know happiness in itself that we should all aspire to when you
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know the simple logic of the situation doesn't follow that path and you know we lost touch with the reality that we depend absolutely upon the nature the land the planet on which we live and from which we get all our resources all of food and everything and so you know what we're really looking at here is is a mindset and actually when we change when we approach. the idea of making eco such an atrocity crime we're putting it there on a level with we're basically saying if you destroy the environment it's like continue no it's like committing a massacre and you need to take responsibility for that and so you know when you say you know we're criticizing. the way that governments operate yes but that's actually fundamentally what's going on and that's what the entire global climate mobilization everyone from extinction rebellion to grettir to the youth strikes you
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know everybody is beginning to realize that that is what we actually are dealing with. so i want to bring this in from you tube someone says that it is overdue this conversation is overdue to stop those responsible for creating pollutants to enter the environment to then be held legally accountable but there are ideas among our community members on why it might be overdue want to bring in a bid e.o. commenter a barrister in the solicitor benjamin and he explains this is really all about the money the main challenge as i see it that faces those of us who want to criminalize the destruction of the global human life support system is that the very people who are responsible for writing laws are in this case also the people responsible for the 2 that the that we are seeking to criminalize every government in the west subscribes to neo liberalism the liberalism prioritizes corporate profits above everything else in the world corporations profit mostly in one way by
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destroying human life support system we're asking government ministers to write legislation that would criminalize their own conduct we're asking criminals to prosecute themselves they're reluctant to do that it's an absurd situation many of it is absurd and the way he lays it out there what what do you make about yes i think and here i would like to say that the near special event so should we be coming in and start think a pretty big girl in. and i also would like to see your bet was the culprit and then they already have a. girl that can court rules them. when people wake up on the say other. and i'll hand in glove with the destroyers that. get them that that's part of the forest for ivan and the law but. what does and what does
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that all the farthest the last get that was also there they become my parents and lead over the life of cities so yes you can leave it that but public opinion then i think is. the bottom and follow stories to put pressure on the people who elected. democratically and people above all to listen to the public i would agree with with menopause my absolutely about the power of public opinion making a difference and i would also say that the reason that our campaign focuses on the international criminal court is it's one of the few if not the only global legal forum where the small states which have the absolute strongest incentive to take forward this little have as much voice as the policing the big guys if you like so we're working with pacific small island states who are already suffering at the sharp end of climate change that already going on the water they're already suffering a huge additional number of severe weather events per year which have
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a massive impact and so they actually do have an incentive as states to take forward allure of this kind and so it's not completely hopeless this idea that potentially you know you're asking the criminals to regulate themselves what you're actually looking for is you know all those small states that have the courage to move this forward because once that happens once somebody has the courage to propose this we have a huge civil movement here that will then have a huge lever for their own governments and when you look at. of course. you know i think what benjamin pointed out is incredibly important and it goes to that deep structure of the law being relegated by those who have been really complicit environment environmental destruction. however we do have a lot of stories about the loss transport of potential through piecemeal improvements like the clean water act in the united states like the water framework
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that wrecked it in the european union town you know the name water act in the united states some of it's they roll back just recently. and they said at that's just the beginning we're going to rope some more back so that if it was a criminal offense maybe that law would stick. yeah i think that's absolutely true and i think i'm interrupting the no a little bit as i shouldn't really be doing that but i just want to push back a little bit because in united states if you cite that as an example just recently just in the last 2 weeks some of the clean water act has has as we roll back let me put this to you i want to put this case to you and i'm going to do it via some extreme weather video from pakistan so i want to show you some flooding and i want to put this case to you it was a successful case of ask the guy he is a farmer in the south punjab breed in region of pakistan he took his own government to court to say that they were threatening his livelihood his life because of
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climate change because. water and food and energy or if that was in secure i and he won the case which is interesting because how do you say that your government is responsible for something that is happening around you that it's very hard to say what the flooding what is your fault of the food insecurity that is your for how do you do that kate o'beirne. so the meat of the le garri case boils down to a piece of executive policy the national climate change policy in pakistan which is a whole suite of administrative measures meant to combat climate change now it goes back to something i think our 1st commenter mentioned which is that we have a huge enforcement gap and where the gari succeeded was in arguing that undue delay . in terms of enforcing this executive policy was unlawful that you are not allowed as a government to simply sit around and pledge this sort of poultry political commitment and not do anything about it so it's
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a real success story there and i think it plays on a history of enforcement litigation where environmental litigators and of course it's worth pointing out that look ari was not just a farmer he was also a law student yet he had the power of narrative on his side as well. and i think that's an important current of litigation but there's something else you know looking in the footnotes of legal history in terms of eco side means we can go a step further than simply these sorts of environmental enforcement cases and that's the fact that we did within the rome statute have something called article $26.00 in the ninety's during the draft and then just remind everybody the rome statute. the rome statute is what creates the international criminal court. and what during its drafting stage it was actually a provision on eco side that was essentially included and not only was it included one of the salient debates was not whether eco sidings was something that should become actionable but rather how we deal with the intent element of eco side and
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delegates from belgium i mean the early ninety's yeah absolutely yeah. you're absolutely right because there's a difference here with the other returned from from other atrocity crimes and if you're going to commit if you're going to go to war on somebody effectively you kind of have to have the intent to go to war on somebody whether whereas with. what we are really looking at is a situation of what we might call in u.k. a little recklessness in other words you're committing an act where you're intending to commit the act but you're not necessarily expressly intending to committee decide but on the intent side of things what we're looking at is knowledge of the fact that you should have known that your act with going to lead to eco thought i'd said in that way yes it is a little different and and i think that that would actually be the the premise on which it would be included as an atrocity crime would be as
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a crime of recklessness or negligent 50 like of ignoring the knowledge that you should have had so judge i don't care point i take your point there but i want to raise it with another point with another legal mind in fact this is donald he's a law professor and here is his state. bunn change is real and it should be addressed but the courts are not the appropriate forum for finding relief from it the facts are funny it's of a woman our constitutional separation of powers commits policy making decisions to the legislature and elected branches now the courts creating retroactive criminal or civil liability furthermore from a comparative institutional competency perspective the electorate are simply better at this task they're capable of taking in evidence making perspective rules weighing competing composing considerations having public participation having rigorous transparent and open debate the courts can do none of this furthermore the legislators can be held accountable if they get it wrong court's going on so does your he says the courts aren't the best place for this but would you say back to him. i would say that actually it's not the court that make these decisions if you
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are going to if you are going to add he confided to the rams that that wouldn't be the court deciding to do that that would be the heads of state and their dedication and presumably influenced by their electorate and they would be the ones that were would be debating this and ultimately putting it into international law or it's not the court itself that the that if i could jump in there. you know that's really interesting proper soria lex's uses but i think the fundamental issue with that is no one is saying the courts are an official solution no one is saying that in light of what we know about political administration across jurisdictions that somehow the quickest or best way to solve any of the harms that come about as a result of climate change is through judicial system i don't know anyone who takes that proposition terribly seriously but it's a mechanism of last resort because our more efficient mechanisms have not your worked and we're running out of time are you guess i'm going to ask you this not to put you on the spot but a good spot if you could take if we actually had an international criminal law
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a home again so environment what would be the 1st case that you would take this is a sentence really. go ahead what would be the 1st case for you where in the world do you think we need this international are right the 1st case one thing that was is what people more than india i think the polish should be actually. well should may the better this is a book about men father listen ok all right what would you be using this international criminal law if it comes into being i would be terribly original here i will wholly agree farmers in the global south absolutely are right and you copy that but that's ok jo-jo what would you be using the ecocide international control for when if it comes into being. you know what i'm going to slightly thought that that because i mean there are many that i could name all right but i think the real power of this is that once you actually see it appearing over the horizon you know
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with once you get to the point where a state is prepared to say we believe this is an atrocity crime you're actually going to start to see a transition period you're going to change in people's you know moral conception so ideally in my ideal world i would see nobody in the dock because of the time we have acted because by time it actually got ratified by everybody people the pressure. this is going to change so much that you actually would have stopped the hall which is the ultimate intention all right judge i thank you so much for that. we will end our conversation there thank you judge i thank you kate and thank you madam for helping us understand this idea about holding ourselves accountable and our major companies and also governments for criminal law a coverage of the climate crisis continues on the next episode of the strain is the climate apocalypse upon us or is there still time we will find out on thursday thanks for scaring us which i can i will see you next time.
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there could be enough to face. now within reach of those seeking. find the most toxic substances. and me in physical threat on al jazeera i really felt liberated as a journalist but i joined us in getting to the truth doesn't lie with us for this job. to attacks not gonna stop to kill dozens with just 9 days to go before the presidential election. jordan this is. also coming up israel's prime minister benjamin netanyahu asked his rival benny gantz to form
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a unity government after an election that was too close to call. saudi arabia says it has proof iran was behind the attack on its oil facilities but the u.s. for creating the destruction. broken homes and broken promises 2 years on from the devastating earthquakes in mexico. dozens of people have died in 2 separate attacks in afghanistan carried out by government forces with u.s. air support has killed at least 20 people in the eastern province and earlier at least 18 people were killed and 96 injured in a taliban suicide attack near a hospital in the southern zabul province a defense ministry spokesman says the intended target was a nearby training base for afghanistan's national intelligence agency joins us live from the afghan capital kabul rob so yet another attack which is being claimed by the taliban plus now we have this asked reich tell us what's been happening.
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that's right another day of attacks darrin 1st of all this attack in colorado this happened early thursday morning it was a very quickly claimed by the taliban they say that they were targeting an office of the n.d.s. this is the afghan intelligence service it was a truck bomb that drove up against an exterior wall of this building detonated but right next door to this headquarters was also the provincial hospital which is appears to have taken the brunt of the explosion a number of people have been killed the official told at the moment it is likely to rise is 18 people killed and 96 people injured the taliban as they always do they claim that they were targeting soldiers government agents but we do know from statements from the provincial governor's office that many women children also medical staff were among the injured a part of the problem in dealing with the aftermath of this bomb blast and pictures reaching us here in kabul show that a bit large section of the center of this city was completely flattened is how you
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treat the injured you would normally take them to the provincial hospital the same hospital which has been devastated so a number of the injured having to be taken by road to neighboring kandahar but we're still now getting details about this 2nd attack this happened in one province this is the province the borders with pakistan it happened wednesday evening now according to the governor's office this was as you mentioned there. a coalition attack a drone strike against what's claimed to have been an islamic state hideout and that 20 eisel fighters were killed and now we know that this hideout is close to the tora bora region which is a stronghold for a number of groups of fighters but it also seems as though harvesting pine nuts in a nearby field where a number of civilians people come in from neighboring provinces to take part in harvest at this time of the year and according to other sources in some of the local councillors now backed up by local government sources. 30 civilians were
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killed and a further 40 were injured now trying to ascertain the truth of it that will probably come in the following hours it is probably somewhere between the 2 that probably was a hideout that was targeted but it could well be the case that once again a number of civilians have been caught up in the middle of this town and rob how is this escalation in violence like you then to impact on the presidential election which as you say is 9 days away that's right well the government sale is going ahead with its preparations for the elections it is deploying security around the country to try to open up the numbers of polling stations as it promises the taliban still promised to carried out its threat of disrupting this poll in fact yesterday wednesday it issued another long statement attacking the invaders as they call them and also their puppets by whom they mean the local government for going ahead with this poll saying that they are still open to peace talks whilst at the
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same time carrying out these attacks meanwhile the former president of afghanistan has made a speech today thursday also calling for a resumption of peace talks between the taliban and the united states this peace deal was called off at the last minute interestingly the ministry of foreign affairs here in kabul says it believes without saying specifically what gives the grounds for such a belief that talks will resume at some point between the taliban and the u.s. but as far as the government here is concerned in the here and now and then he talks of peace they say that will have to come after the election the election will go ahead and we will see what the next week brings or a bright day in kabul rob thank you. israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu has called on his main rival the centrist
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benny gantz to join him in a unity coalition that's said there is no chance he could form a right wing government after a deadlocked election with more than 97 percent of the votes counted a center right blue and white party led by gans has 33 seats while prime minister benjamin netanyahu was in a good party is behind with 31. of the most. during campaigning i called for creating a rightwing government but unfortunately the results of the election showed that will not be possible the people did not fully decide between the 2 blocs now i call on you benny gantz we have to create a wide based unity government today the people expect from us from both of us to be responsible to cooperate that's why i'm calling on you binny let's meet today any time to ignite this move and how to add a comment joins us live now from west jerusalem had a so what more can you tell us about netanyahu comments and why he's saying this now. well i think he's saying that that now just to put position himself really
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a step ahead of benny gantz president prime minister netanyahu is a very shrewd and clever politician and you can see that repositioning ever since those 1st exit polls came out on election night here he had already sort of dropped the rhetoric of let's form a right wing coalition yet immediately positioned himself as trying to form a scientist government as trying to preserve design is then he is heeding the call of avigdor lieberman who is basically the kingmaker he is the man who actually had nathan the hour fail in forming the government and to previous elections even man had said immediately after the for his exit polls that he would only accept a unity government which included the blue and white party the likud and his own. party so now you have benny gantz who's under spot here you have 2 of the most
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important politicians calling for unity government benny gantz hasn't answered yet but certainly need to now has put him under spot and now all eyes here in israel will be on benny gantz holder thank you. for more on this let's bring in akiva eldar who joins us via skype from tel aviv he's a columnist at the news website akiva eldar so netanyahu now calling on benny gantz to join him in this unity government is this a shrewd move by netanyahu or a sign of political desperation do you think. i think it's another spin made by an uncanny how and the proof is in the yesterday's gathering of the likud and so to speak those natural partners the orthodox and tried to get them to get from them a clear commitment that they are together and they are not going to betray or stary
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stab him in his back and this is after he made all the members of the previous likud faction in the upcoming knesset to sign the same kind of commitment and now what he's doing is trying to throw the hot potato or so to speak to guns cork and be the 1st one to blame guns for. this agreeing to unity which unity is very popular in israel and that it will be his forte if they will have to go for certain actions we know the pentagon says due to speak shortly in response to netanyahu as of the churches what do you expect him to say because as things stand joining that and yahoo in government is pretty much a red line for the blue and white party isn't it. red line is actually kind of immunity this goes together actually immunity is not coming out of the middle name
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now and this is something that they are not able to digest on the other hand if you can you know it's not prime minister if let's say they will agree on rotation to swap their premiership unit and you know after 2 years. this means that can't be indicted because the minister doesn't have immunity. and big name of the game is same being from jail anything else will not work unity government with out an attorney oh ok it is not only a political suicide it is almost critical suicide i'm ok but there is precedence for rotating government in israel isn't there many saw that with shimon peres and he back in the eighty's but of course that was a long time ago at a very different political landscape. yeah and their results were. the only crude has paralyzed she one person and. has undermined the longer an
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agreement and agreement was saying that was signed initially in. longer but the difference is that in 84 both she won't paris and shamir were not accused was corruption and there was no you know a problem of litigation for. piles of corruption above their heads so this is a big difference as i said before it's impossible to reach an agreement with an attorney you know that will include immunity and point in time you know it's impossible to reach an agreement without immunity akiva just a final thought from you i mean one interesting aspect of these israeli elections that we haven't had from israel's main ally the united states when trump has kept very quiet as netanyahu battles for his political life why is donald trump not said anything do you think i believe in 1st of all no trump doesn't like
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losers and he completely put his bets on on can you know and he gave him anything you wanted moving the embassy to jerusalem recognizing the israeli an extension of the golan heights and. getting out of the iran equipment and i think the 1st step was to remove a john bolton that was. showing a horse in the white house and everything there been any moment that we've been following for the last 2 years is over akiva eldar always good to get your thoughts thank you very much indeed for talking to others there thank you. now a team of military experts from france have been sent to investigate the attacks on saudi arabia's all facilities it comes as saudi arabia presented what it calls undeniable evidence that iran was behind the incident at a news conference a saudi defense spokesman display daybreak allegedly from the strikes.


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