tv Inside Story 2020 Ep 1 Al Jazeera January 2, 2020 10:32am-11:00am +03
we as 40 tribesmen arrived at the camp and reportedly started shooting killing and burning according to a u.n. peacekeeping spokesman and huge numbers of people are heeding emergency warnings and fleeing times at risk of bushfires in the strain states of new south wales and victoria relief supplies have also arrived for thousands more stranded by the fires 8 people have been killed so far this week and another 17 are missing authorities are calling on people to leave at risk areas within the next 24 hours unexpected heat wave that swept the dates inside story is up next. we are told that between russia has just been addressed by turkey we listen what is the proposal of spain for. we meet with global newsmakers and talk about the stories that matter how does iran. is iraq becoming
a proxy battleground between washington and tehran angry protesters stormed the u.s. embassy in baghdad after some of the u.s. attacked in the arabian backed our military so how can this latest tension we can take this instance like story. well there one welcome to the program i'm julie mcdonald dramatic scenes at the u.s. embassy in iraq supporters and members of the rainy and backed popular mobilization forces surrounding the u.s. embassy compound in iraq's capital baghdad their demand an end to american intervention in the country they threw rocks and set fire as i've cited security personnel responded with tear gas the u.s.
then deployed marines to secure the compound before the protest as leaders told them to withdraw president donald trump blames iran for the demonstrations but tehran's denying being involved at all as widespread anger over recent u.s. airstrikes against the has blah brigades in syria and in iraq u.s. says they were launched in retaliation to a rocket attack on friday near kerr could that killed an american civilian contracts or well we'll talk to our guests shortly but 1st our reporters simona fulton brings us up to date. we are in front of the checkpoint that leads towards the u.s. embassy behind us and this is not a 2nd day where hundreds of fighters and supporters from the popular mobilization forces have besieged the u.s. embassy there have once again set fires to the outer gates perhaps you can see the smoke rising behind me and for now they are refusing to leave we're seeing increased security presence today with iraqi security forces actually manning the checkpoint which was not the case yesterday when these crowds were allowed to march
on the u.s. embassy but they're still allowing them to go through and for now these crowds are refusing to leave the u.s. guards inside the u.s. embassy are deploying tear gas to try to manage these crowds and as we understand the goshi asians are currently ongoing between the leadership of the popular mobilization forces and the government to see whether these crowds are willing to leave of course prime minister all of them up he has called on them to depart yesterday but they seem to have simply ignored his orders they have camped out overnight they have put up flags on top of the fence of the u.s. embassy and it remains to be seen whether they will withdraw today of course any withdrawal of these crowds here would have to happen on the terms of the pope or the mobilization of forces their very presence here was a very powerful show of the spy and a sign that they're capable of marching on the u.s.
embassy and it is clear that the proper the mobilization forces and their leaders are the ones currently calling the shots on whether or not to stand up here at the u.s. embassy will and simona faulty in al-jazeera or inside story. so let's bring in our guests ochlik rushdie is senior foreign policy advisor for the speaker of the iraqi parliament he joins us from baghdad mohammad marandi is head of north american studies at the university of tehran and he joins us from tehran a smile also danny is a former iraqi defense attached to the united states and retired iraqi brigadier general who joins us by skype from the nasa sin the u.s. state of virginia gentlemen a very warm welcome to you all ahmed rushdie if i can start with you these are frankly extraordinary pictures that we see i have to baghdad from your perspective what story do they tell the world well and tell the world so many
messages told the world is that there is a real problem between washington and to one tells the world is that there are real problem inside the inside the local politics in iraq and there is a real miss understanding between the iraqi government and leaders and also it a very important message is that still iraqis does those 3 or those images not proof profitable for their demands it's not accurate for their demands which is rising up the the way of their demands that it's actually making reforms about the whole political system and also their demand there their real ordinary demands like electricity like services like lowering the unemployment and so on so all these messages have been seen for those 2 days and let us not forget
it's it gives a bad messages about iraq itself in a front in front of the world mohammad marandi from your perspective what stories are these pictures tell i mean we've heard the reactions from iran calling the u.s. attempt to blame it for the protests audacious. i think the biggest problem that the united states has and it's not only limited to rock is it arrogance the fact that americans can bomb iraqi forces and murder dozens of iraqi soldiers heroes who are fighting against isis alongside the border with syria some of them inside syria which was very far away from the base where the americans claim that they were involved in some attack and again even that is problematic the americans are both a judge jury and executioner so the americans show no regard for iraqi sovereignty they attack iraq the war heroes and
they have no respect for the iraqi government and that is the story of the united states presence in this part of the world for many decades now and for the americans to call these people or pundits to say iranian back to you right these are iraqis with iraqi id cards and they are the ones to push back isis the very same isis that the united states and its allies helped to create when we look at the but i don't know if you know mohammad marandi i don't know that you know us him and but on that note we have heard from people at the embassy and they're saying that they are completely separate to the peaceful protest movement which has never gone to the embassy they say they're completely separate that the people at the embassy belong to the p.m.s. and they have a completely different agenda that as rushdie pointed out actually detracts from what they want which is wholesale political change. but we have to keep in mind
that the whole problem that iraq has has been caused by the united states the united states created the monster saddam hussein they gave him chemical weapons to use against even his own people they then attacked the country then they impose sanctions on the country where over a 1000000 people died then they invaded the country they destroyed the country's infrastructure and occupied it and even now the u.s. embassy is the size of a country this is not the embassy of a friend of iraq this is the embassy of an occupier so when the united states tries to prevent iran in iraq from hammy having normal ties when it manipulates the country when the united states and others help support extremist groups in syria and then they spill over into iraq the united states is not in a position to to complain about iran or iraq or anyone else and what goes on near the embassy no one in iran is going to believe the american narrative the fact is that iraqis many iraqis are outraged that the americans murdered the soldiers that
belong to the iraqi armed forces that helped save the country and that these people who are at the embassy their brothers in arms were murdered by the americans so for somehow if they say they are iranian backed killing them makes it more acceptable in the eyes of western pundits and think tanks they were pretty pleased when they bought western think tanks were pretty please when the americans bombed these people and killed these people now as i said they were nowhere near the base that the americans claim that this group was behind ismail also down the let me bring you in on this is american arrogance as our guest pointed out there parts of this picture i mean how much of a blow is it for the americans to have these pictures of their embassy frankly under siege beamed around the world i mean doesn't it show weakness in in foreign policy or strategy if there is one. well i think your guest into her run has
met his on perspective from his own side. and he's blaming america of course that is the official iranian. point to the view but as an iraqi and have served in iraq and iraqi army for almost 30 years. you know the picture should be more compressed comprehensive i think iran and iraq are iran and america are you know contributing negatively in the reaching this point unfortunately those countries are having their own complex and they would like to fight each other on iraqi soil and this is the fact. unfortunately he's talking about united state is not respecting. the iraqi sovereignty theory they are rocket
government and i really would like him to see the picture in iraq he perspective. rather than his on prospective iraqis are also fed up of problem the iranian proxies who are you know controlling you on everything and in your report just now we have heard that the iraqi government is negotiating with the shah be with him up in. pm use popular mobilization forces in order to. them to leave leave their positions in front of the embassy i am wondering where is your on with accept their forces and with their you know official fatigue and uniform to protest
against any diplomatic. foreign mission and i don't think should they would be accepting this i you know so the government is negotiate think and security at practices which is belong to it and should are done is done to leave the place that without any condition this is this is the way if you respect the iraqi severin it is. and the spec the iraqi you know iraqi government unfortunately it is it is it is very sadly to say that these these forces i don't say that these forces are not sacrificing i am you know admire i am respecting their circumstances and their fighting against diet and against isis and they have defeated their isis at the defeat at isis by their blog and their lives and not let us stop here just for
a 2nd as i come back to monitor on day to get a response to that in a 2nd but i want to bring in our mad rush to his office in baghdad so so can you give us the perspective from where you are that is iraq becoming a proxy battleground between washington and tehran is that the feeling of the iraqi people are at least some of them. all actually let's talk let's be frank on the on the 20 is that there are about 11 attacks done by the pm done by qatar possible lower on the american bases the last one killed about one contractor and when the dozens of 1st soldiers and as a reflects what's happened is that they're americans attack hezbollah brigades in their camps and let us not forget also asked per the this critter of defense told are there are the 4 hours before the attack is that we are fed up we should make
their pack so it looks like in a way in another it's an awfully sharp attack and other than that of the sub that said i talked to our spreaders that just wait let me talk to the people that are settling something on that way as per said not the decision have been made so it's all show you is that the iraqi government until now didn't make a real decision about what's happening now it's even didn't get to be a mediator between the 2. parts no according to that it show you also all the reflects is of the people specially now we have to kind of the most traitors we have at the demonstrators and now we have the other demonstrators which is run by qatar as well against the american embassy and those are the where there are demonstrators against what what what's happened in iraq and against the corruption and bad services and so on but all of all those things i think it will
reflect on the political process in iraq it will be reflected on about choosing the next prime minister about the early elections about how to deal with the situation from iraq is proper a prospect about what's going to happen next so and let us not forget also all is that. maybe it just maybe it pushed the truth of prime minister in a way or another that we need someone who's balancing the relationship between the horizon and washington and it's frankly speaking if this is the reality this is the geopolitics working on a new we need as iraqis we need someone who can handle the situation for my from my point of view i think that our demand it cannot run such a delicate relationship we need someone who can move in between he is willingly to settle the issue between tehran and washington he's willing to settle some
economical and geopolitical issues with the iran and let us not forget they are not our neighbors and they will serve our neighbors so it's still there are so many relationship between baghdad and to run on many aspects politically economically even socially so what and also this man who should be also has a very good connection with the international community because we all know iraq for no sure speaking has many problems has doubts about $134000000000.00 and also iraq is the international community for rebuilding issues for rebuilding and reconstruction of the destroyed areas and also to fight terrorism so all those problems need to be settled by the iraqis rather than proxy iran proxy america mohammad marandi it is one of the difficulties here that there are 2 very different opposing stories so the u.s.
wants to tell the story that iran's asserting a vice like grip over iraq and that essentially iraq's become if you like an iranian college colony whilst iran maintains actually it's a partner to iraq it wants to help rebuild and supports its neighbor and yet parts of the criticism we're hearing today is that this p.m.s. protest at the embassy is simply an attempt to draw attention away from the peaceful protesters. i think it's pretty clear no matter how one frames it that the americans have repeatedly bombed the popular mobilisation groups and they murdered many of them and the accusations that they have attacked american positions are simply american accusations the there's been no court of law in iraq that has proven this and if the popular mobilisation supporters and their people do not leave the gates of the u.s. embassy. during the gauche ations with the iraqi government possibly it's because
it's linked to the fact that the iraqi government told americans not to bomb them and they did so they're not going to sit probably they're vulnerable being be prepared to be bombed again to have their children murdered to have their relatives murdered to have themselves maimed and killed because they iraqi government is standing we confronted the united states obviously as human beings they have the right to feel in secure in their own country so that if the iraqi government was in control of u.s. forces i don't think this situation would occur and on the other hand it is not iran that is trying to drive the united states out of iraq after all iran has no troops in iraq iran is working with the government that have was elected through elections and the united states keeps sanctioning and sanctioning people and governments that even do business with iran so it's the american military bases it's the americans who are trying to prevent the normalization of trade the
american sodium rocky media day and night is carrying a cycle of carrying out psychological warfare trying to turn the iraqi population against iran then you have thousands of n.g.o.s literally thousands funded by the united states in iraq active and then despite of that the united states behaves with impunity murders people takes responsibility and they expect people now. to go in and protest the problem is the u.s. occupation and it's not just limited to iraq look at yemen look at libya look at what they did in syria on it let me stop you there just because i want to bring in a smell saddam to respond to this does the u.s. have to conclude on the basis of what mohammad just said that its mission in iraq has failed it appears to have no clear vision or strategy does it have to conclude that it spent all this money and failed. frankly i would
say that you know i say it's part of what is going on i didn't deny anything but when you instigate the united states of course united states is is going to react so i think iran our iran backed you know forces in iraq instigated the united states surely act so if iranian got what they have wanted in fact a from from that reaction in fact that's is the golden moment for them to condemn what has done by american but. and the other hand we are turning a blind eye for what is going on in the other side i think what is going on that iraq iraqi you know state is not a state is a project to say it's not me who is saying that iraq is
a fragile state and why it's iraq is a fragile a state because of the political parties who owns army groups not only the shia but maybe also the kurds who are having much marga they don't want to state the floor they don't want a state that. they don't want to state is a powerful death with control on each and everything they want to be above the lol and that's really is pushing you from a foreign world iraqi government is is is in this situation or in the position they cannot you know react they cannot do anything towards any thing that is happening and i would ask you this a question i ask and you guess which iraqi government didn't or didn't iraqi government to spectate what is going on what will happen after the bombing of the position of pathak has well off in syria and iraq of course that there should be
some security sense to anticipate what will be going there there were many threats from the leadership of the how you xabi to you know to make some reaction against american show why do you iraqi government did not force the protection against the american you know which are obviously the american embassy in baghdad and the green zone which is more fortified ismay let me lay not just for a 2nd because i want to concentrate also on what the iraqi people seem to want so what we are. you're talking about is a country that appears to have numerous layers of influence which ever way you look at it whichever side you are on the us names iran iran blames the us but the peaceful protesters they want basic services and good governance how do they get
that on the ground in such a complex environment. well honestly speaking i don't think such a situation going to help. to reform anything but i think the 1st step now to choose a prime minister that has a real background about what's happening more or less outside the political blocs and more or less has a very good knowledge about to get a very good relations with all the partners here in iraq which means that to her on 1 washington and maybe even the gulf states and turkey on that way this man or this prime minister all this cabinet can start to make some sort of a message is sent some sort of a masochist for 3 more reforming of the economy to the international community and said ok we can start up
a little bit of investment even with what's happening now just because the the new prime minister is accepted by the demonstrators special and this out he will be accepted by the demonstrators in the south so you can imagine it's a start point but that does not mean that everything going to be peaceful and evidently going to be as it's supposed to be as calm as it is why because this prime minister has the supposed to be has the duty to talk also to the political blocs who should share power with him and it will end it and his power will end with the early elections which maybe it can be on a 6 month or maybe one year now all those images that i am saying is actually in the mindset of the iraqis now they are actually dreaming about it now what's happening now is not helping them what's happening now is actually making the situation very complex and eventually it show you that we have
a weak iraqi government we have a weak parliament and also we have a weak political process so the faith the iraqis. faith on the political process is going down so that's why i am saying is that sending those drug messages to the iraqis to the regional countries to the world is making a bad picture about iraq and i think that's why you are asking this question is that what hope that iraqis will have with this situation thank you gentlemen for your fascinating thoughts on this subject area well a big thank you to all our guests mad rush to mohammad marandi and his smile so danny and thank you of course to you for watching you can see the program again any time but visiting our website al-jazeera dot com and for further discussion go to our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash inside story you can also join the conversation on twitter our handle is at a.j. inside story from egypt in tunnels and behold the year of access.
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