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tv   Inside Story 2020 Ep 194  Al Jazeera  July 12, 2020 8:32pm-9:00pm +03

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armed vehicles and 2 russian made defense systems forces backing the tripoli based government of been massing on the outskirts of sirte a coastal city which is a gateway to major oil facilities and libya's national oil company has declared force measure on oil exports that means they can no longer on their contracts because of a blockade on the terminals by forces loyal to have to the u.s. embassy in libya has issued a statement speaking out against outside interference in iran's supreme leader has defended the country's foreign minister has been denounced as a liar by some hard line politicians the reef was interrupted several times while briefing the newly elected parliament on foreign policy issues you're up to date with the headlines we're back with the news hour in about 25 minutes next its inside story with adrian.
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under pressure to step down molly's president is accused of failing to improve the economy and deal with threats from groups he's dissolved the constitutional court but controversially overturned election results in march but is that enough of what if turmoil spirals out of control this is inside story. hello welcome to the program adrian finnegan it's been described as the worst civil unrest in mali has seen in decades violent anti-government protests this week left several people dead president abraham. has promised to form
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a national unity government the country has been without one since elections earlier this year he's dissolved the constitutional course that's faced controversy since it overturned provisional results from parliamentary elections in march but will that be enough to restore peace protesters say that the government is corrupt and that the economy is failing and they want president catered to resign now serious shelagh bellis reports. in bamako a solemn feel well for protest as they come see say the 30 year old was killed on friday his family says he was shot in front of molly's national assembly. his mother was sick already when we broke the news to her she had a seizure the neighbors came out and we comforted her with words from islam. thousands of people gathered for friday's protests the 3rd since. they pushed their way into the grounds of parliament and the national television station then tires
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and barricaded roads in the capital police responded with tear gas. gunfire was heard 60 people were arrested. the protesters returned on saturday but in smaller numbers. their anger is directed at president abraham. demonstrations began in june after mali's constitutional court overturned election results and evolved to include frustrations over the economy and lead corruption and insecurity from groups. repression reinforces our determination and we will continue with our watch until the end of the regime of ip case which today is accounts of a mali on saturday evening case who responded in a televised address. to continue to do privilege i will continue to favor dialogue with all the active forces of the nation for the establishment of a consensual government team composed of republican and patriotic groups and not
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the break is end demolishes of the country mali deserves basic the man. he promised to dissolve the pools at the heart of the disputed election results hold reelections in contested areas and form a national unity government next week they're an important 1st step. and i think the idea is that the president is going to join we have the opposition and have hopefully real dialogue. and and hopefully this will take place under the eyes of eco wasse the regional group that i think can actually help make sure that this moves forward smoothly. no position had earlier rejected katie's offer to reform the constitution and demanded the dissolution of parliament following friday's embraced 3 of their leaders were arrested and they had cooled his range and it's unclear where the president has his concessions will satisfy them and stop the
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scenes repeating. the bonus. money struggle to contain a rebellion in the north since 2012 here's a closer look at some of the armed groups that are operating in the sahara there are 4 main groups eisel boko haram a powerful group called jamaat al islam while muslim in and answer all islam both al qaeda affiliates they operate in northern bicheno faso on the border with mali the group i saw in the great us a horror has been launching attacks in the jeff since the end of 2016 boko haram at iceland west africa are operating from both east and nigeria near the border with major chad and with the defeat of iceland iraq some of its fighters may move to the sun hell through libya. let's bring in our guests for today's discussion joining us from bamako is fatima.
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who's the special advisor to the mali and minister of foreign affairs from the fall abood who is director of the nordic sense of a conflict transformation and a specialist on north west african affairs and from washington d.c. william lawrence for us diplomat in west africa will welcome to you all thought him if we can start with you 1st the president is being accused of failing to deal with the economy out of failing to deal with the armed groups in the north he's dissolved the constitutional court is that going to be enough to appease the protesters. that we have and that. they could you bend with us i think that you. know they say that it is a bit difficult i. 2012 might have been going to i love it come up for political instability. issues that always an issue but it's been a lot to handle has
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a president and looking had so what happened in the north and trying to also sell what is happening. in bamako it's not easy for any any government and looking at right now in 2020 and about the house bill with 45 feet which camelot with the economy called economy crisis and i think that makes the population maybe i'm happy because i can bring a lot of issues already angry about how the present inhabiting the security issue has been not in muddy and how much i say about how the president is handling the political situation in mali they help and if you can help the creation and beyond that tell us who handle and and that's why the process process in march when they farm to the movement which was that the movement was great had people is. how they believe that the government didn't know handled very well the. elections.
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there have been calls for the president to resign is he going to. the president not going to resign and i don't think that is the solution because the president is open but that i don't and i don't think that he's asking for the president with a new phone anymore and i think that's been a part of the quest and now they are open for battle that's why they have been they propose they have some propose that propose that the president create the national unity government and they also propose the president who some day in that's not at all offended also propose that that meant to be solved. the constitutional court and you know how do you know in any of negotiation who you would have watching demand but who would not necessarily get what you meant and i think that's why the president had to give that several speeches where he will say that he was open fought a battle and i don't think that the mission of this president is the study shows
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and is not what the book mission also is asking for. and are about what's your take on this money as private assess promise to rapidly form a government that is quote open to facing the challenges of the day what are the main by that and what is that going to be enough to placate the protest us. first of all you know mighty world bear in. mind and vicious cycle of violence for a long period of time and even the congress didn't has been seeing the succession of several prime ministers who came and resigned as well and the issue here is that in 2050 there was an agreement on the loose in the country and. coming out from the cycle of violence by signing and parties signed. a peace agreement. that gave in 2015 and they gave
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a lot of hope for the population in in mali imaad size even though there are there are some limitations are due to the agreement but 5 years from from from that agreement that actually raised so much it so many expectations for for the population in mali we haven't seen the implementation it's still the implementation is still for the dragon by the government and the parties will sign the the green meant and that read so many questions the country is fragmented and the country is in contest politics the burden for ration of corruptions that no one can deny that everybody really on that and perception of inequalities is is what the people are defeating of the people who are in street actually to have the feed in of increased perception of many qualities in the country where lawrence in washington how much blame for the disaffection that we're currently seeing in mali can be laid
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squarely on the shoulders of the president is he as thought about seems to imply a victim of circumstance or just inept as a leader. i would say it's more a question of circumstance than lack of competence or lack of good will molly is one of the poorest countries in the world that has some of the least government to pass it in the world and it's set by a whole set of crises many of which have been numerated by the other 2 guests and you can add to that the dimension of ethnic violence religious extremism questions and a range of other issues that made mali very very hard to govern right now that said i think the main thing the president has made or at least according to the mass of protesters is that he's turned a deaf ear to a lot of their dominions there was
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a meeting in late june it was very sure to didn't see that really listening to them and as he says the concessions it doesn't seem to be concessions from a ship but just concessions to 0 what's being discussed at the moment and so there's a real opportunity here given that we can mess up passage of the government and all these myriad overlapping crises for the president to turn a page and. towards a more inclusive approach to politics as he says he wants to do and as the producer are demanding i think they keep sort of asking for his resignation and then a nasty resignation friskiness i think in part because they want to. and at this point that the ships passed in paul i think it's interesting to compare mali briefly to sudan and a jury and city and united international mediation that march he worked out jury or
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used them on his not really have as much progress in terms of the political you know so the president will have to turn to international help under equal loss and other. players including european countries united states can help as needed sudan and there are prospects for negotiation room everyone forgets that mali was one of africa's strongest democracies for about 20 years until things fell apart in 2012 so there is a track record of the city in mali is to turn back to that to its own model that it's had for so fast i'm a given what we just heard. how does the president plan to tackle the demands of the protesters. as i said the president after the 1st process that happened the president had made it must be read he said that he was open trying to battle and he was open to talk to the protesters but i've taken
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propaganda and will call it something that would be good for the population and what the it has a well for the well being of the country and last night he actually made a speech when i try to handle one of the one of the medals. to dispel the constitutional court and ask that he decided no course he's going to elect a new monger. you know court so that those new members with the with the right people with they have the right people because the government would be able to gather to address the demand of the nation which he is also the fact that some people believe that they have been a fraud in some places getting to. make an election so asked about it then you might get out of the. constitutional court i place that that will solve the next problem and i said that there will
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create so you need a national unity government and that we should be able to do some the demand of the professors. if you were advising the government in. what your advice be how did the president the prime minister move forward should be should that be a government of national unity in the 1st place. 1st of all. it has to be some kind of lessons learned about what happened in in mali and not reinvent the wheel from from scratch 1st of all you know like i said and mentioned the peace agreement that was signed in nigeria and it was signed in 2015. brought up some groups from the nor all together to be able to move forward however like we've seen you know and this is what will not be repeated by the current government is the lack of will from from from the parties or from the government from implemented
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whatever agreement they come up with that's one and the single thing is that we need to identify exactly what are the interests of a key players in actors in the conflict in money and i'm back to mention here france and our dear. what is at stake and what they can do exactly especially if the un members especially among geria of the end mediation commission so early and one of the reasons men also of the agreement is complete absence of civil society organizations that represent the people from the north and from the south and this is very important because it does not give and upper hand to one specific ethnic group or a number of groups but each show that there is a genuine dialogue among everybody and especially the the departed tradition affected by his vision of the population that feed and represented especially for
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example women in our own and city and young people and thirdly if you know the the the vast majority of money and people have no idea and they have no knowledge of this peace agreement for instance this is an example or not they hardly knew about it so how can we bring all these dialogue that we talk here. here at the government level or at the agreement level to the population that actually have to to face every day every day hardship economy at least socially divides along ethnic groups and the basic needs are not not met at all for several. years so that talk about a dialogue about a future about what's going to happen in 5 years is no longer going to win work to that for the president the president has to show that actually he can resolve some of the basic needs right now and try to build 1st of all the trust or any agreement
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on that out across the us that's the making ok william just before i buy a put another point to you or comment on on what you've heard would you agree broadly with that. well i would just like to add that sort of politics and peace making an image is a lot of that who's in one position at the same instant in terms of the. irony of their marriage or their place in but it's also about institution building and why i think one of the recommendations of eco us was to reform the way that concert or operates not just replace the members and this gets to the larger point it's to ship building is a capacity problem here and so you can as your 2nd guest said earlier you can have a prime minister premised afterburners prime minister and we shuffle cabinet after a shuttle cabinet but there's a point at which the musical chairs and so your problem if you're not building up as he said trust and capacity in these various governments to sions answer to the
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last piece that i think hasn't been covered in cover but alex injected another way here is that when you talk to mali southerners erupting resentful of all of tension about the problems of the north and northerners resentful of all the resources the concentrated south and that's something that needs to be at meijer focus of this dialogue end of the international we need to be resources for more in south and then explain to the if you will or you talked about the opposition a new sort of the money had been one of the strongest amok receipts in in africa the opposition in the country has faced something of a dearth of political talent until recently but seems to have coalesced on the. dico of late who is he wore on his ambitions. well he's a solid as who doesn't really
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a lot of you not believe in the most extreme or. you know one of the clients is as we say so you could call it a conservative muslim cleric of sorts who was a supporter of kay that until you turn against him or out to the us 15 and then made some sort of crazy statements about homosexuality is punishment somali and other things like that but i think in my mind it's a signal to me that at times he may be a little bit of an opportunistic politician more than a mouthpiece of. what he does really in. elements of that live just side and he has a lot of supporters because of that and he is a charismatic leader who can galvanize crowds and that's one of the reasons why. it has coalesced around him but if you look at the other 6 leaders arrested over the last 2 days they're very different from each represent different factions of model
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politics mine society and so this really is another well up opposition organization and to a degree to which the pope here represent all those who is the truth he could emerge as a leader and to the degree to which that he's been says a more narrow agenda i think. that scene from that we have you or i hope no one of those seeking for all of the opposition 'd or care for him up where does ecowas come into this it's long been involved in mali has it ramped up its assistance of late is it helping the president navigate this crisis. yes i think so far to collapse has been cleaned out they came here weeks ago we have humanity so far enough from a collapse and looting the one from nigeria enough so and he had a body when they met the president and they also met.
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at the simple call users who have been against the regime they have been trying to understand the crisis so that they can propose a solution and an end i ask that they ask right having trying to see how they can implement a solution and one of the solution was. they advise the president to create a national unity government and also and also trying to you how they can solve the constitutional court and also try to redo the ls shown in different. parts of my game where they have been when depletion have been. claiming that they have been through this so i think so far to collect these i watching closely what is going on in mali and i and i trying to advise the best way they can and has and last night when the government gave the speech he mentioned the fact that. they now
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that means the solve the constitutional carts now they are trying to implementing one of the advices some of the advice that you have given when they use that money and i think that shows how we i will our problems have countries that are and we should be that's what chad i am i have been for countries . where they have about 2 minutes left hate to ask you to speculate but using your experience how do you think this is kind of going to play out well mali have the same president at a few months time will it be more politically stable will it be more peace. that there is one indicator about death 1st of all. i always question to what extent the people who are industry women and men are included in any process that if it did
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are not in our ad to say that it would be very much business think about anything to make change in the near future the 2nd thing is that we need to clarify the position of other foreign. force so that countries are involved in the country who have different priorities than the priorities of the people and even the government in miami and there are thirdly and this is also very important is that people do want to see changes in every day they can't wait for the again you can tell them again in the next 5 years or 10 years things are going to change if the smaller incidents at the micro level continue to spare are there greater violence we will continue as well so now i would say as long as the people are involved in any peace agreement or reform or proposition that i would be very
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pessimistic about the future of money. there i'm afraid we were living many thanks indeed to you all thought about their fellow board and william lawrence as always thank you for watching don't forget you can see the program again any time just by going to the website you'll find that at al-jazeera dot com for further discussion joined us at our facebook page that's facebook dot com forward slash a.j. inside story and you can join the conversation on twitter our handle at a.j. inside story from a atrium for the good of the whole team here at the our thanks for watching i'll see you again i thought.
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talk to o.j. is there a school is the government taking the necessary action to really address some of the structural issues we listen i still think that at travel is the safest mode of travel and to spend that we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter so does iraq on the deserted streets of we've become familiar figures couriers on bicycles delivering food or medicine to lock down colombians most of them here are venezuelan migrants the day my girl miss a mother of 4 says contagion is always on her mind none of them receive health insurance for their work and exposing themselves and very few seem to have it yet there may be a bright side people who look down on them as own skilled migrants now say they're essential to control the virus and receive messages on the app saying that we are
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you know as i was a nurse back what i am doing is not all that different from my passion helping others. in the conclusion of a 2 part series people in paris vesta gates allegations that irish catholic nuns facilitated the traffic babies the church realized that babies are the cookie barrichello shouting quite they use and reveals shocking new evidence of how and where religious orders disposed of those who died thank you torn in the system like this fund church and state are committed to keep the truth from coming helps islands mother in baby scandal on al-jazeera. every generation has a higher purpose. ours is just stay. to own their own wee hours is the government not taking the necessary action to really address some of the structural issues we listen i still think that air travel is
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the safest mode of travel and to spend that we meet with global news makers and talk about the stories that matter on the phone to 0. this is al-jazeera. that's 800 hours g.m.t. here on al-jazeera and come all santamaria and this is the news hour more than $15000.00 new coronavirus infections in 24 hours a daily record for the u.s. state of florida a surge larger than most countries also in the news more than a mere.


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