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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  September 3, 2019 5:00pm-6:01pm BST

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today at five — we're live at westminster where mps are set to debate a bill designed to prevent a no—deal brexit as the government loses its working majority in the commons. the prime minister making his way to the commons today has already hinted he will try to call a general election if he's defeated in tonight's parliamentary vote. iurge i urge therefore that size to reject this bill so we can get the right deal for our country, deliver brexit and take the whole country forward, and take the whole country forward, andl and take the whole country forward, and i commend the statement to the house. the attack on our democracy in order to force through a
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disastrous know they will brexit is unprecedented, anti—democratic and unconstitutional. among those opposing the government are some senior conservative mps who want a further delay in the brexit process and say they won't be swayed by pressure from downing street. i think we will have the numbers, many colleagues have been incensed by some of the actions over the last week or so. adding to the government's troubles the conservative mp philip lee has defected to the lib dems leaving the government with no working majority. we'll have the latest from westminster on a very busy day. quite a noisy day as well! we'll be talking to one of the leading conservatives opposing the government tonight and we'll be looking at how the next few days might unfold. stay with us for bbc news at 5pm.
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it's 5 o'clock. we're live at westminster — on the day parliament reconvenes after the summer break — for a hugely significant week in the brexit process. a short while ago — the conservative mp philip lee dealt a blow to the prime minister — when he announced he was leaving the party tojoin the lib dems — leaving the government with no working majority. later today — the house of commons will debate a bill — designed to prevent a no—deal brexit. the former conservative chancellor philip hammond said he thought there was enough support for the bill — which delays the brexit process — despite the prime minister's firm opposition to it. downing street has warned that borisjohnson would push for a general election — on the 14th october — if the government is defeated.
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the prime minister has already been on his feet in the commons — reporting on the recent g7 summit — and the legislative challenge is expected to start at around 6.30 this evening. our chief political correspondent vicky young is with me. a day of rapidly moving events. with me on the green and doing battle with the noise behind me, vicky young. i want to start this evening talking about the parliamentary business later. a very significant moment, a conservative mpjoining the liberal democrats very visibly during the prime minister was mike statement leaving borisjohnson with no working majority. we can overstate these things but how significant is that move? it is a huge movement because it means he
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doesn't have a working majority in the house of commons. on the other hand, let's face it, he hasn't really had a working majority because of the rebels including philip lee but the fact he chose to do it this way with the tv cameras on him as the prime minister got up to speak is heaven trying to make a broad point here, and i think his letter is interesting because he talked about the party he joined in 1992 and he says, it is not the same party as the one i am leaving, because he said it was a broad church and know it has a narrow faction and this chimes today with whatjustine greening faction and this chimes today with what justine greening was faction and this chimes today with whatjustine greening was saying. people like philip lee, because of brexit, yes, but because he also known no longer feels this party is the party for him and justine greening feels the same saying she is not standing at the next general election. that is significant with some tories saying good riddance, these people are making it incredibly difficult for brexit and they are trying to stop it happening, it is not democratic so good job they are moving on. the
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wording was strong, he said the party has moved away from me and has become a faction and just to remind viewers just joining become a faction and just to remind viewersjustjoining us, we see philip lee setting beside the liberal democrat leader, he says the party has increasingly become infected, very strong words, with the twin diseases of populism and english nationalism. he is talking about his former party, the conservative party. difficult to imaginea conservative party. difficult to imagine a more strongly worded letter at this stage. and why it is important is that if we are heading towards a general election, this is a problem for borisjohnson if voters feel the same way. if conservative voters feel the same way as justice cleaning and thanks to the party has changed, if conservative voters, who are maybe not on the brexit side of the party, if they feel the same way that could bea if they feel the same way that could be a problem at the ballot box for borisjohnson. he will be aiming to
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get voters back but what about voters on the other side to it seems in parliament are leaving his party. let's pause for a second because as we mentioned mr lee crossed the floor while the prime minister was delivering the statement because the prime minister has been addressing mps following the recent g7 summit and he said any further extension of the brexit deadline would surrender control, he used the word surrender, of the process to the eu. jeremy corbyn didn't like the word surrender, didn't like the language used. he said his efforts to force through a know they brexit what an on british democracy so let's listen to some of the exchanges. we promised the people we would get brexit done. we promise to select the results of the referendum and we must do so now. enough is enough, the country wants this done and they wa nt the country wants this done and they want the referendum respected. we are negotiating a deal and although lam are negotiating a deal and although
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i am confident... though i am confident of getting a deal, we believe by october 31 in all circumstances. there will be no further pointless delay. this house has never before voted to force the prime minister to surrender such a crucial decision to the discretion of our friends and neighbours overseas, because what this bill would mean is that unless we agree to the terms of her friends and partners, they would be able to keep us partners, they would be able to keep us in the eu for as long as they wa nt us in the eu for as long as they want and on their terms. i urge therefore this house to reject the spell tonight so that we can get the right deal for our country, deliver brexit and take the whole country forward and i commend the statement to the house. the attack on our
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democracy in order to force through a disastrous no—deal brexit is unprecedented, anti—democratic and unconstitutional. labour will do all we can to protect her industry, protect our democracy, protect our people against this dangerous and reckless government. i condemn the rhetoric to the prime minister used when he talked about a surrender bill. i hope he will reflect on his use of language. i really do hope he will reflect on his use of language. we are not surrendering because we are at war with europe. they are surely our partners. if anything, it isa no surely our partners. if anything, it is a no deal except that would mean surrendering our industry, ourjobs, surrendering our industry, ourjobs, surrendering our industry, ourjobs, surrendering our standards and protections and a trade deal with donald trump in the united states. so some of the exchanges in the
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house of commons earlier today. the former minister guto bebb is with me, conservative mp for aberconwy in north wales, who's preparing to vote for the bill, and against the government this evening. that is still your position? absolutely. we have to take the option of no—deal brexit of the table and the bill is very moderate and gives the prime minister time to avoid it, but the damage that no deal would do to this country, to the farming community is that i represent, for example, is so significant that i am duty bound to act. how much pressure have you come underfrom government act. how much pressure have you come under from government sources and this process? i thinki am under from government sources and this process? i think i am a lost cause to the government so i haven't been under much pressure but some of the people i am aware who are thinking of voting what is this evening are under immense pressure because in effect they have been
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told they will lose the conservative whip and in a general election they would not be able to stand, so an effect boris johnson would not be able to stand, so an effect borisjohnson is threatening them with losing theirjob simply by doing what he did numerous times when theresa may was prime minister, which was to vote against the conservative work. it is quite hypocritical of the prime minister to be perfectly frank. when we had the prime minister saying that there is absolutely no way in which he is going to go back to the eu and as foran going to go back to the eu and as for an extension of the article 50 process , for an extension of the article 50 process, he is just for an extension of the article 50 process, he isjust not for an extension of the article 50 process, he is just not going to do that, how do we square that with what might happen the next 2a hours? there are two things to be said, if this legislation passes it becomes the law of this country that he has to seek that extension unless he gets a deal. the legislation also says clearly that if parliament votes to support no deal then again he does not have to seek that extension so in other words the prime minister is given the option of getting a deal are persuading the house of commons to vote for no deal. that is entirely democratic.
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at he still refuses to go to europe he is putting himself above the law and no british prime minister is above the law. if he refuses to go to brussels he would have to resign. what is your view of the prospect of a general election, we mention the date some government sources were saying, 14th october, what is your position on that? quite simply i do not trust as prime minister and that isa not trust as prime minister and that is a terrible thing to say about the prime minister of this country but he said clearly he would not prorogue parliament and he is now and he said he would not seek a general election and he is now seeking one and i think he could seeking one and i think he could seek the election but then change the date. number ten has said that is not what they will do. and they also said they would not prorogue parliament but that is exactly what they do, so i am afraid the political capital of this prime minister is being spent because time and time again what he says is contradicted by what he does. what
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is your hunch, talking to colleagues here, about what is likely to happen in the vote later tonight?|j here, about what is likely to happen in the vote later tonight? i can only speak on behalf of the conservative side of the equation but my view is there are sufficient conservative colleagues able to vote for this to proceed tomorrow but it all depends on what the other opposition parties do as well, and i cannot speak on behalf of the labour party or the scottish national party or other parties. we are with the prime minister be at this goes through, if your side wins, if he then brings in attempt forward to get a general election and that fails, where does that leave the prime minister? the prime minister can get it if he brings forward the proposition that says he either extends the article 50 period so we can have a general election, but effort exa m ple can have a general election, but effort example the prime minister loses that general election that is only right and proper that a successful campaign, whether it is labour or liberal democrat, then has the right to negotiate with europe. so if you want is a general election
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and makes it a general election about brexit, we cannot have a no—deal brexit happening during the course of that, so my view is that at the prime minister wants a general election he has to extend that article 50 process. just the final point, you aren't colleagues like you have been called all kinds of things in recent weeks and months, but when you hear words like traitor and a surrender and that kind of language, it must have some effect on your? i find it absolutely appalling that a prime minister of this country, a prime minister who was a member of parliament whenjo cox was murdered as willing to use language like collaborators and traitors, knowing full well the circumstances we are facing in this country. putting that in context, there is a rumour, only a rumour, that winston churchill's grandson might be voting against the government this evening. as boris johnson genuinely calling the grandson of winston churchill a traitor? we will see, thank you for joining me. the conservative mp guto
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bebb preparing to vote against the government tonight. a quick look inside the chamber of commons because it is now another statement taking place and here we have michael gove, one of the prime minister's close associates talking about preparations for no—deal brexit. that is what we call the yellowhammer document brought forward and some controversy and review than some controversy in recent days, and michael gove is currently going through the motions and trying to defend what has gone on with that, but also we will catch up on with that, but also we will catch up with what has been going on in the commons in the statement in just a few moments, because this will be followed by another statement on education policy and then another motion to do with a ten minute rule bill were somebody tries to get any legislation on the issue of climate change, and all of that before we get to the business we are talking about here, which is all about the
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motion ahead of mps tonight on trying to prevent no deal. let's get back here to outside the houses of parliament because with me as andy mcdonald. labour mp and shadow secretary of state for transport. good to have us house. what is your reading of things right now? we from the prime minister last night and in the prime minister last night and in the house today, and jeremy corbyn has made his view clear. what is your reading of where we are right now? my reading as we have a prime minister whose authority is just ebbing away by the hour. you saw on the benches behind him today, the look of dismay across those benches, theresa may, the father of the house on philip hammond, it wasn't a good look and a pretty poor performance on his part and he failed to answer fundamental questions about the progress he says he has made and also failed to assure as he would publish the assessments of the risk of no—deal brexit. so he has any wea k of no—deal brexit. so he has any
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weak position at the moment and i fully expect the application to succeed tonight and the bill to succeed tonight and the bill to succeed tomorrow. so you're confident on both of those counts. where would that leave the government? in a difficult position because it is all about making sure no—deal brexit does not happen and of course our apprehension is that this is the very objective of this prime minister. there has been little sign of any meaningful progress towards a deal, as he suggested he is trying to achieve, and hanging over us as the threat of and hanging over us as the threat of a general election, but we know what thatis a general election, but we know what that is about. it is a mere ruse. it is simply another way of him winding the clock down to 31st october because we don't trust him. you hear it consistently not just from because we don't trust him. you hear it consistently notjust from labour mps but from conservative mps, who arejust mps but from conservative mps, who are just totally disillusioned. they don't trust him to hold to any such indication of promise and we could end up with a general election after having crashed out. this is a crucial point, because when viewers
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hearjeremy corbyn saying we would welcome an election, i think it is important to be clear, that is not under any circumstances. it is not an election if you say you cannot trust the prime minister not to move the date. so it could be the case he comes forward and says i want an election that you would then have to explain why labour and the circumstances would not want it? and we will do exactly that because the principal focus has to be to avoid a damaging no—deal brexit. if he does that, we are really and a very difficult position as a country, so thatis difficult position as a country, so that is the focus and that is why the sequencing has to be right. we are not going to fall into the trap of allowing him to corral us into an election that gets exactly what he wa nts, election that gets exactly what he wants, which i cannot for the life of me understand why a prime minister of this country would want to inflict such self—harm on his own nation. you know what would happen, if he says he wants an election and people hearjeremy corbyn saying he wa nts people hearjeremy corbyn saying he wants an election and suddenly labour explains why under certain
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circumstances it doesn't want that, people will say, there you go, that is labour running away from the challenge and showing they are not keen to face the country. we do welcome the election but what we are not going to do is allow that device to be used to crashes out of the european union, so if we can nail with us over the next 2a and 48 hours, with us over the next 24 and 48 hours, let's have the discussion about when that election will be but it should be at a time of parliament's choosing, it should be at a time of pa rliament‘s choosing, not it should be at a time of parliament's choosing, not of boris johnson to simply manipulate the position to achieve this terrible outcome for our country. when we look at the coalition of forces that has now come together, another defection from the conservative benches today, how determined is that coalition with labour a very big part of it to get to the end of this week and have the position transforms? how would you characterise that determination?” think it is absolutely solid and i'm delighted to hear from the other opposition leaders who have been wholly supportive. there has been real coalescence around the
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singularity of purpose and that is showing no sign of being shifted in any way, shape orform, so showing no sign of being shifted in any way, shape or form, so there showing no sign of being shifted in any way, shape orform, so there is any way, shape orform, so there is a real determination of the combined effort to stop a new deal exit, and iam effort to stop a new deal exit, and i am confident that that is what we are going to achieve. good to talk to you and thank you. we will see what happens later tonight, thank you. labour's shadow transport secretary. a quick peep inside the house of commons again because as i say we have a sequence of statements taking place and then we have the labour leader on the front bench still in place because they are questioning the government about their preparations, or as labour would say lack of preparations, for they no—deal brexit. the statement is still going on and as i was telling you earlier, because lots of you will bejoining a telling you earlier, because lots of you will be joining a saying, a rdently you will be joining a saying, ardently debating this motion about preventing audio, the answer is not yet. i reckon at this stage it will be about 630 seven o'clock, and then two or three hours of debate with
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the vote at 9:30pm or ten tonight, but timing can slide a little when there are so many statements slotted in. iwant there are so many statements slotted in. i want to bring there are so many statements slotted in. iwant to bring in there are so many statements slotted in. i want to bring in an expert on all of this. with me now to make sense of what's going on in parliament is dr alice lilly from the institute for government. good to talk to you. what is your reading of where we are right now when you see to it might see the way these forces are lining up? what would you say to viewers to expect later tonight? the big question is whether the rebels will get the numbers they need to pass the motion tonight to take control of the order paper. there has been all sorts of speculation all day about whether they will have these numbers and ultimately it will be very close. if that vote tonight is past and mps ta ke that vote tonight is past and mps take control of the order paper, what happens in the commons tomorrow and uses it to introduce this new bill, they want to take it through all their stages in the commons tomorrow, and obviously it is possible that at each vote of that
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stage it could fall, but ultimately if mps get the numbers they need tonight that will suggest they get them tomorrow as well. interesting earlier talking to guto bebb, one of the prominent members of the conservative group who wants this to go through. he seemed pretty confident. labour seems pretty confident. labour seems pretty confident about the numbers, and given what you have been doing in terms of taking the temperature, you see it as tight but you think the numbers, even if tight, are still on the other camp, the anti—government camp? i think they will certainly be close and they are getting that way. we have throughout the day is seen some potential rebels who hadn't previously committed to voting against the government now saying they will vote against the government. we have seen a conservative mp across the floor, and the big question is whether that continues over the course of the evening. to talk through some of the logistics year, for all the viewers watching, and sometimes it is easy to lose track of which part comes
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before which, but let's say this motion is passed and they take control of the order paper, the government is very control of the order paper, the government is very cross control of the order paper, the government is very cross about that and the prime minister tries to come forward with a call for a general election by the fixed term parliament act and he needs two thirds of the house of commons. if he doesn't get that, where does he then stand ? he doesn't get that, where does he then stand? there is another option that would be open to the prime minister and that is, instead of tabling a motion under the fixed—term parliaments act asking mps foran early fixed—term parliaments act asking mps for an early election, he could bring forward a piece of legislation himself. this would be very short, it might only be a sentence or two, and essentially that legislation would say notwithstanding the fixed—term parliaments act, we would like an election to be called on the particular date and ask mps to vote for it. for the government, that has the advantage that they would only need a simple majority, not two thirds, and that would set the date for any election in stone, and that
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might assuage any of the concerns that labour and other opposition mps have that he could later change the date of the election. downside for the prime minister is that because that would be a bell, it would be open to amendment and it would then have to go through the house of lords as well. so that is potentially hugely problematic? lords as well. so that is potentially hugely problematic7m could be really tricky for them but it is still an option on the table. the whole issue around the government allegedly or potentially ignoring or not taking note of a vote in the house, that you set any credence on that was at something simply that was an option that was mooted? there have been all sorts of speculation about what could happen in because we are not really living in normal times there is the sense that all conventions are in flux and on the air. the government faced a backlash over the last few days for even implying it might not abide by the law and ultimately the law is
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the law and ultimately the law is the law and the government is bound by it. the prime minister has said in the commons this afternoon that he doesn't tend to be any law that parliament passes, as you would expect. we will see what happens, good to talk to you. senior researcher at the institute for government and thanks to her for her expertise and at this point, it is difficult to see a path through the set the stage before we even come to the motion, leave alone the bill before members of parliament tomorrow. legal challenges are underway to try to overturn the prime minister's plan to shut down parliament. it has been very controversial. sirjohn major has been given permission to join the case brought by the businesswoman gina miller at the high court in london. and in edinburgh, ajudge at the court of session, has been hearing from a cross—party group of parliamentarians who say borisjohnson is acting illegally.
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our scotland correspondent lorna gordon is in edinburgh for us. tell us more about this case and how it is progressing, how it might ship out. the lawyer for the cross-party group of parliamentarians, aidan o'neill qc, claimed in court that the uk government is showing breathtaking contempt for the constitution and suspending and proroguing parliament in this way and he likened it to autocratic rule. he said it is not parliament blue politics as usual and it is an attempt to upset the balance and in an attempt by the prime minister to roll back history in favour of some divine right. what came out in court as well was that the prime minister had declined an invitation to submit a sworn testimony but government lawyers submitted some documents to court which showed that boris
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johnson had signed off on plans to prorogue parliament in the middle of august, two weeks before it became public and before the point at which they denied that the plans were afoot. lawyers acting for the government make their arguments this afternoon. the said proroguing was perfectly lawful and not a matter for the courts. thejudge perfectly lawful and not a matter for the courts. the judge said perfectly lawful and not a matter for the courts. thejudge said he will attempt to reach a decision overnight, we expect to hear his ruling tomorrow at 10am, but whatever that determination is, it is likely to be appealed both here and then on the court in london, the supreme court, and we have been told in the last few minutes not that hearing is set for september 17. thank you very much for the update. lorna gordon our scotland correspondent in edinburgh. back here, let's ask the question, a very
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basic question. so how could mps try to stop a no—deal brexit? that is what all of today is about. i'm joined now by our reality check correspondent, chris morris. chris — the timetable is really tight, isn't it? it is very tight and we have stood here many times and deadlines have come and gone. more than three years after the referendum and less than two months until the next deadline. we all know what it is, october 31, and the real significance as the government have said so determinedly we will leave the eu on that date, come what may, with a deal or without one. deal or no deal is the critical thing. that is why we have seen critical thing. that is why we have seen the rebel alliance, as they have been called, acting in this way. they know the deadline is very tight and mr johnson way. they know the deadline is very tight and mrjohnson said we will leave with no deal life we have to run so leave with no deal life we have to run so they are putting forward this bill, and if they voted through
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evening, permission to take over the parliamentary business tomorrow. the idea that they will extend until 31st january, another three months, will things get solved in that time? it kicks the can a little further down the road. and of course, if thatis down the road. and of course, if that is the case, they will feel it is three months more than gives us a little bit more time for negotiations to continue or some other kind of solution to emerge, whether an election or referendum or whatever. you very much. and just a thought before you go on the way this process has been completely convinced that this stage now, and how do you think downing street will maybe look at some of those options, if this motion is passed tonight and that this bill goes through tomorrow, what will we be talking about come wednesday, thursday? we will probably first be talking about the possibility of holding an election but mps need to under the term parliaments act to vote in
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favour of an election and that that doesn't happen, we have already had one drama a few days ago and parliament will be suspended next week for five weeks. from monday, sometime between monday and thursday next week, parliament will be suspended. that is different from a recess because it means all parliamentary business stops, any legislation going through effectively dies a death, which is why it is so important for those rebels that they want to pass this bill they have to pass it very quickly, and potentially you could come back in the middle of october with mps having instructed the prime minister to have an extension to the brexit process, and if they turn down election at this stage, where down election at this stage, where do you go from there? people are talking about uncharted territory and we are sailing further into it. the definition of it. what i would like to do now, as given that we are focused so much on westminster, and we had a word that edinburgh, why don't we go over to brussels.
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let's get the latest now from our brussels correspondent damian grammaticas. yesterday we were all talking about the way the vote might or might not affect boris johnson's the way the vote might or might not affect borisjohnson's bargaining position or bargaining power in brussels, what are your thoughts i would say today the thing that is the most significant event being watched by the eu was the defection from the tories to the liberal democrats depriving borisjohnson of his majority. the eu is watching number one for what sort of majority borisjohnson number one for what sort of majority boris johnson can command number one for what sort of majority borisjohnson can command for anything he tries to take through parliament. that is not a good sign for winning concessions from eu and secondly what kind of proposals can be you pay put on the table. —— the uk. boris johnson returned
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be you pay put on the table. —— the uk. borisjohnson returned with great momentum from the g7 but early in the date we heard from philip hammond the former chancellor saying it was nonsense to say there had been progress in talks here and the daily telegraph reporting sources saying borisjohnson, daily telegraph reporting sources saying boris johnson, dominic cummings describing the talks as a sham. in the commission today i asked the commission if they were being played by the british government and they said that they we re government and they said that they were honest brokers and what they believe they had so far was a channel that had opened up. so the progress they talk about here is simply that they had that opening for talks which may be something could happen tomorrow but at the minute crucially the european commission are saying that nothing has been put on the table the uk side. and so what about the substance of proposals from the uk government, nothing what boris johnson told parliament when he
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spoke this afternoon, he talks about ideas about practical arrangements that could be found and then he came back to old ideas which the eu, uk and irish business sources have already set are not workable. so both his majority and the ideas that might notany both his majority and the ideas that might not any kind of progress on both of those i think the eu has not seen both of those i think the eu has not seen anything today that could persuade them to move. thank you very much. now we can cross over to the houses of parliament behind me and phillip lee, the former conservative mp who defected very publicly and prominently this afternoon to the lib dems. what was the final thing that convinced you you needed to do this? it has taken some time to come to this decision. i've been a member of the conservative party 27 years but in recent months i increasingly felt
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uncomfortable about representing my constituents as a conservative member of parliament. i am elected to best represent them and i now believe strongly that i can fulfil that duty best as a member of parliament for the liberal democrats. tell us about the representations you had from senior cabinet ministers in recent days and what kind of impact they made a new? i have really had any representations because i think they thought i was a lost i strongly believe that the brexit the public will get is not the one they were promised and i think that is why it should be taken back to the public ina should be taken back to the public in a peoples vote to have a final say. i still believe that and the liberal democrats have been the party that have backed that approach the longest. we heard today again from a couple of your former
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collea g u es from a couple of your former colleagues now, the kind of language that they are concerned about especially from the prime minister, talking about the surrender and all the rest of it. i assume you shared concerns about the kind of language used? absolutely and the straw perhaps that broke the camels back was a radio interview yesterday with jacob rees—mogg and a consultant neurologist and the way in which jacob rees—mogg referred to the co nsulta nt jacob rees—mogg referred to the consultant with disdain and disregard for expert advice, that was quite shocking and i think that in tandem with this language invoking battles and wars, that is wrong. and i think it is about time we raised the bar in politics and i strongly believe the liberal democrats are in favour of doing that so we can get on with their serving the people of the uk. there are some lib dems not totally happy with yourjoining them and they referred to remarks apparently you made back in 2014 about banning
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immigrants with hiv positive status. ijust wonder what immigrants with hiv positive status. i just wonder what would say now as fellow party members about those remarks? i would point out first of all to those individuals that they are defending my character and should be careful about what they say, i never said those things. the amendment they referred to was an attempt to reduce in something called viral load to reduce the hiv carriage in the uk and that would actually protect the gay community. it took some time for people as i recalled to understand what i was about but it was about protecting vulnerable groups with regards to that infection. the whole of that approach that i took on immigration was backed by a globally eminent herpetologist, famous throughout the medical profession is one of the greatest physicians this country has ever produced. i stand by everything addedin ever produced. i stand by everything added in 2014 because i had patients
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at the forefront of my mind irrespective of their sexuality. what you think happen tonight?” think the debate today i would hope and expect that it would pass and then tomorrow we move on to trying to put through legislation through the house of commons and then subsequently through the house of lords which makes no deal an impossibility. i think that is in the best interest of my constituents and my country. thank you for talking to us today. so what can we expect in the next few days? isabel hardman the assistant editor of the spectator and kate proctor of the guardian arejoining spectator and kate proctor of the guardian are joining us. spectator and kate proctor of the guardian arejoining us. it is a bit ofa guardian arejoining us. it is a bit of a challenge, let us try to help viewers. after the statement today
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from the prime minister when he said there was no way he would ask the eu foran there was no way he would ask the eu for an extension and he was clear about that, so what happens if this motion goes through tonight and legislation goes through tomorrow? he has to decide whether he is going to respect that, this no deal legislation and continue with his original plan of progression. if you suffer defeat it would be pretty embarrassing, we know his majority is almost shot so he could continue with his progression plan under the nuclear option which is basically dissolving parliament and calling a general election. if he does that he could do that tomorrow and set out his intentions in parliament. and you could have things moving as early as thursday. but from the briefing today in the comments we understand that he would do that on monday if he wants to dissolve parliament. what is your reading of the mood in downing street and given we already had tory mps saying
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they're confident of getting what they're confident of getting what they want commit these conservative rebels in alliance with others, what kind of strategy is going on right in downing street? it is quite a bullish mood in downing street and interesting that boris johnson bullish mood in downing street and interesting that borisjohnson in his statement last night did not go as faras his statement last night did not go as far as sources close to him then we nt as far as sources close to him then went into a briefing with us jealous straight afterwards about the threat ofan straight afterwards about the threat of an election and mps, they said if they want to cancel they cannot do it this way and threatening mps with basically losing their status as conservative mps in the next few even in meetings today mps i spoke to who are minded to rebel tonight said they did try to engage but did not really get a sense of engagement coming back. and even apparently they were hacked out or had a conversation with dominic cummings, the chief advisor to borisjohnson who said he did not know who they were. if you are trying to charm people to come round to your point
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of view, as blunt as dominic cummings says he knows how to charm people when he wants to end that suggest to me they're not particularly bothered at this stage about losing this vote. why would that be? boris johnson about losing this vote. why would that be? borisjohnson keep saying i do not want an election but the assumption in downing street is the conservatives would do well in an election and jeremy corbyn as leader of the opposition as someone who they can frighten voters about and can win back some seats and get a majority again which they do not have another phillip lee has defected. the issue i suppose is let's say the motion goes through and then boris johnson let's say the motion goes through and then borisjohnson says hang on, i'm angry about this and what a general election, he does not get that through the commons because there is not that two thirds vote there is not that two thirds vote there for him, where does that leave us? that is one scenario i have not game planned! i just us? that is one scenario i have not game planned! ijust think at us? that is one scenario i have not game planned! i just think at this stage we are heading that way,
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heading towards a general election and that is what people are preparing for. but labour might not vote for that. that is not guaranteed. not at all but then labour have been saying in the past few years they want an election so that puts them then in a difficult position especially with their voters. they made a number of promises for a long period of time that that is what they want and jeremy corbyn has said that that is what he wants. not first and foremost because he's been a bit tricksy with his language but he is so enthused for it so i think it jeremy corbyn, the next battle for him would be to try to get as many labour mps him would be to try to get as many labourmps on him would be to try to get as many labour mps on side as they have the numbers to carry that through. again thatis numbers to carry that through. again that is the scenario that is difficult to work out. on the business of progress on no progress with the eu, lots of slightly rude remarks offered today by people about the prime minister and his assertion that some progress has been made with people being overly
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derisive about that. what is your sense of what the contact is with brussels and is there any progress being made? there were reports coming from those based in brussels that negotiations do not appear to be progressing and that angela merkel does not see any substantive offer being made by the british government. borisjohnson offer being made by the british government. boris johnson made offer being made by the british government. borisjohnson made that the key theme of his appeal to tory mps today in his statement and said he believed that there was a deal that was possible, he even said he believed it was possible to get rid of the backstop. when labour mps started jeering and asking how he said they do not want to scrap it so now he's accusing anyone who wants details of opposing what he wants to do. great to talk to you both, and we will put that to the test later! what i would like to do now is go back inside the houses of parliament into the central lobby and i think
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vicki young has moved over there while these statements are still going on. just bring us up to date on where we are with the timing is because i mentioned earlier that we have the series of statements before we get to the main business we are talking about. so we had a statement from borisjohnson talking about. so we had a statement from boris johnson and talking about. so we had a statement from borisjohnson and as is usual that went on for quite some time. so now we have another statement from michael gove talking about no deal preparations and then another one after that. so the timing is really probably pushed a bit later said the vote tonight which just to run remind people is a vote on an emergency debate, that would allow if the government is defeated it would allow mps to take up a business in the house of commons tomorrow and they then will try to push through a bill which would force the prime minister to ask the eu for another delay to brexit. that is all happening much later tonight.
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this afternoon after the prime minister, we will be hearing from michael gove. he was alongside boris johnson leading the referendum campaign to leave the eu and he is now effectively in charge of no deal preparations. there has been a significant leak recently, yellowhammer, the name given to no deal preparations, a lot of that led to newspapers and there has been much speculation about that with michael gove saying that is worst—case scenario. michael gove saying that is worst—case scenario. other people saying it is not. he also said it was out of date and other people including pam and the former chancellor i saying it is from the beginning of august. this is what michael cohen had to say earlier. we have of course to prepare for every eventuality and that is the function of operation yellowhammer. it is an exercise in anticipating what a reasonable worst—case scenario might involve. and how we can then
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mitigate any risks. the operation yellowhammer assumptions are not a prediction of what is likely to happen, nota prediction of what is likely to happen, not a base case scenario or list of probable outcomes but projections of what may happen in a worst—case scenario. projections of what may happen in a worst—case scenario. they're designed to help government take the necessary steps to ensure we can all be ready in every situation. since the new government was formed at the end ofjuly the new government was formed at the end of july new the new government was formed at the end ofjuly new structures have been put in place to make sure we can be ready in every situation and can accelerate preparations for exit. to the new cabinet committees have been set up to discuss negotiating strategies and make operational decisions about exit respectively. they meet every working day to expedite preparations for the exit and we are in regular contact with colleagues in devolved administrations including the northern ireland civil service and thousands of the best civil service members across the uk are working to ensure the smoothest possible exit.
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we've been helped by the move but the chancellor to announce an additional {2.1 billion on top of expenditure already committed cell {6.3 billion in total has been allocated to prepare for life outside of the eu. that money is being used to provide practical help to businesses and individuals. guaranteeing the effective flow of goods across the border with the eu is the core central to our preparations. and that will require action by businesses to adjust to new customs procedures and intervention of course by government to ensure the free flow of traffic to ensure the free flow of traffic to ports for that that is why hmic erdos, announced an additional expenditure of £60 million to train thousands of custom staff and hauliers to make sure that trade with the eu continues this smoothly as possible. and we have another £20 million to ensure traffic can flow freely in kent and trucks arriving in doverare freely in kent and trucks arriving in dover are ready to carry our exports into the eu. on business we have allocated an economic operator
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registration indicator 288,000 companies across the uk and businesses can also register transitional simplified procedures to debate the submissions of customs declarations and postpone the payments on duties. that was michael gove failure and of course it has been another extraordinary day. it started this morning with philip hammond the former chancellor, really reviled by some in his own party, the brexiteers who feel that when he was at the treasury block there is preparations for no deal and stood in the way really of that being an option. he went on to the radio on the bbc this morning and talked about the threat that has been put towards him and others to say if they voted against the government tonight they might be deselected and not able to stand as conservatives. on the radio earlier he suggested he would even be willing to go to court to take the conservative party to court if they
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try to stop him standing as a conservative. we also heard from him during that statement with the prime minister, philip hammond and others of his former colleagues in the cabinet getting up and sent to the prime minister you say you want a deal well what plants he got. what if said to the eu about the northern irish backstop, what alternative arrangements have you put to them and how serious are you about a deal. that is what they really want to know and he has been expressing that also in private meetings. so there has been a lot of anger in the tory party today. this is what philip hammond said earlier. do not think it is any surprise, i think it was quite widely that phillip lee might defect and i'm not aware of anyone else thinking of doing that. certainly my own view is that this is my party and even if i do not like some of the policies being pursued i will fight for the policies i believe in within the
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party. and the press and a number ten, you do not like him very much either, i hear it was a fractious meeting today at number ten when borisjohnson meeting today at number ten when boris johnson sought to meeting today at number ten when borisjohnson sought to address some of you about his brexit plans you not to back his attempts to block the no—deal brexit. not to back his attempts to block the no-deal brexit. boris johnson is an old friend of mine so it is nothing personal but i certainly have some policy disagreements with him around the conduct of the brexit negotiations. it is not clear to me and there is no evidence that there isa and there is no evidence that there is a real negotiation going on and i fear that either through delay or through a policy objective we are going to end up being timed out and crashing out with a no—deal brexit on the 31st of october, something i feel is catastrophic for the uk and must be avoided. so i'm looking for assurance from the prime minister that we are engaged in a genuine meaningful negotiation which means that we have to be prepared to
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compromise, we have to be prepared to work on a sensible and realistic timescale to get a deal done. i have not had that confirmation yet. to be clear when borisjohnson stands in the chamber and says he is serious about negotiations and that they are continuing apace, is he then lying to you and your colleagues in an attempt to hoodwink you into accepting an ideal exit, is that what you think is really going on?” think there's a big difference between friendly conversations with our partners in europe and cleared the prime minister had a very successful g7 meeting in biarritz, very constructive conversations with the german chancellor and the french president for example. but there is a big difference between those friendly general conversations and the hard miles of detailed negotiation of text. the prime minister wants to remove the whole of the backstop from the withdrawal agreement andl
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of the backstop from the withdrawal agreement and i think that probably is setting the bar too high to be achievable. even if we only talk about modifications to the backstop that will require huge amounts of detailed negotiation and drafting. we do not even have a negotiating team any more, but has been stood down so we do not have the wherewithal, we have seen no progress, we have made no proposals to the european union yet. and the clock is ticking. we need to get on with this if we are genuine about seeking an agreement. philip hammond and other tory mps have been in to see the prime minister today and others are saying the prime minister right now is borisjohnson tries to persuade them not to vote against the government tonight. not to change the law in order to make him, forced him to go and ask the eu for another delay to brexit if he does not get a deal through parliament.
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that is later on this evening and i think the rebel tories think that they may have the numbers to do that and the big question is how the prime minister responds if he loses the vote tonight. that could be the moment when he says ok, you're trying my hand in negotiations as he sees it, time for a general election and then we would have another vote in the coming days to see if mps would approve a general election. back to the house of commons now where we have michael gove on his feet talking about these no deal preparations. and being questioned by mps on all of that. no-deal brexit is causing no shortage of fresh food but then retail consortiums have said that was not true. with the minister accept his statement on sunday was inaccurate? i would also express my solidarity with the honourable gentleman as i also worked with fresh food in the
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19805 also worked with fresh food in the 1980s so i do appreciate how important it is to make sure we have a ready supply of fresh fruit and vegetables. the british retail consortium have been working incredibly hard to make sure we have access to the full range of foods that we currently enjoy and it is the case that while the price of some commodities may rise the price of others may fall. but i'm certain that consumers will continue to have a wide choice of quality fresh food stuffs in the event of no—deal brexit. i'm sure my right arm or friend will agree that business leaders and business associations will be listening intently to the debate this afternoon, we have suffered three years of uncertainty and endless pointless brexit debate. what reassurance can be minister give to these people who have suffered uncertainty, what certainty and reassurance can you give business leaders going forward?
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business does want certainty and the best advice we can give is to make sure we give us a good deal with the european union so i hope everyone across the south will give the prime minister the time and space necessary to secure that good deal on which he has been working so hard. the minister on sunday said on food shortage is that there would be no shortage of fresh food but he has just said there would be why choice so does accept what the british retail consortium said that his initial complaint was categorically untrue and i no—deal brexit would be the worst of all worlds for the high streets and those who shop there. well the honourable lady like me once to avoid a no—deal brexit if at all possible but it is important that the work of the british retail consortium and other supermarkets involved have been doing to make sure we have continuing wide choice and ready supply of the fresh food that we all enjoy. early in the year
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when it appeared momentarily that we might leave without a deal michel barnier announced that they would not be hard border after all and that other arrangements would be relied upon. where could he have possibly that idea! i think very possibly that idea! i think very possibly from some of the wise speeches made by my right honourable friend. order. statement from the secretary of state education gavin williamson. thank you, mr speaker and with permission does not of that was michael gove updating mps on no deal preparations for the bit has been a date when the conservatives have lost their working majority in parliament. we have seen a defection from one conservative, literally, to the liberal democrats. we've also
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heard from long—term conservative mps such asjustine greening and alistair burt think they will no longer stand for the conservatives at the next general election and later at the seeming of course we have that crucial vote for the prime minister, as mps try to take control of business in the house of commons tomorrow so they can change the law forcing him to ask the eu for another delay to brexit. if you cannot get a deal through parliament. that will be much later this evening but we have coverage of that from here throughout the evening news channel and before that the six o'clock news with sophie raworth. now weather with chris fawkes. as far as the weather goes today we will take a look at what has been going on best with hurricane dorian. for most of tuesday it has been pummelling the bahamas again but the area of strong wind has expanded but the peak wind has reduced a little bit. through the afternoon we had
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gusts of 130 miles an hour but 100 miles west on the coastline of florida the wind has only been at around 40. all that in just the space of 100 miles and that makes forecasting this store a bit uncomfortable because any small changes in the path of the hurricane could sound even stronger went into the eastern side of the united states. so for us in the uk we have a band of rain moving south across england and wales and overnight that will be quite intense. some gusty wind potentially with that as well and even is that clear through we have clear skies for a time but then showers returning to scotland and northern ireland. for wednesday we have one cold front and one inclusion into the north of the uk and both of these will have cooler air following them. so a cooler and fresher kind of day. rain to start
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off with across the south—east clearing away followed by sunshine for a time. for the north of england, north wales, northern ireland and scotland a cloudy day with bursts of heavy rain in the afternoon some gusty northerly wind especially in scotland. temperatures struggling through the afternoon. just 13 degrees in aberdeen and feeling even colder at factoring in that wind. but on thursday all change, a warm front moves in across scotla nd change, a warm front moves in across scotland and northern england and north wales and with that we could get some mist and fog patches. but temperatures recovering with highs of 17 in belfast, 15 in aberdeen and a little warmer across the south of england and wales. more rain on friday and a cold front pushing across england and wales. again a day of sunshine and showers and again temperatures coming back down so high is a 14 degrees in london.
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that characterises the weather even into the weekend, swings in temperatures and swings between dry and better days.
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this evening, conservative rebels will join forces with the opposition in a vote as they attempt to force the prime minister to delay brexit — but he says he will never surrender to their demands. that's what they want — to force us to beg, to force us to beg for yet another pointless delay. he isn't winning friends in europe, he's losing friends at home. his is a government with no mandate, no morals and as of today, no majority. that working majority was lostjust moments before as tory mp phillip lee — seen here crossing the floor — defected to the liberal democrats.

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