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tv   BBC News at Five  BBC News  September 4, 2019 5:00pm-6:01pm BST

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government has narrowed down its negotiating ask as set out in the letter to donald task and it has targeted its request on the bejewelled agreement and the fda, —— on the bejewelled agreement. this is a bill intending to stop brexit —— on the withdrawal agreement and the fda. i am now required to put the question, is and the question is that the bill be read a second time. as many as are of that opinion say "aye". on the contrary "no". division! clear the lobby! so the speaker has just announced the division. this is of course the key vote on the second reading of the bill that has been introduced by a cross—party group of mps today, hilary benn and others. some conservatives along with them, the
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snp and others as well have joined in the lib dems in this effort to get a new bill passed in parliament and very urgent time in order to, in effect, blocked a no—deal brexit and to instruct the prime minister, this is something he does not like at all, to instruct him to ask for a delay in the brexit process unless there is a deal in place already. so it isa there is a deal in place already. so it is a very significant day, a very significant piece of legislation, and a pivotal moment in this brexit process. so, as we see this division under way and we wait for the vote of which could take ten or 15 minutes, i suppose, of which could take ten or 15 minutes, isuppose, let's of which could take ten or 15 minutes, i suppose, let's spring of which could take ten or 15 minutes, isuppose, let's spring in oui’ minutes, isuppose, let's spring in our chief political correspondent. she is over and the houses of parliament. just to underline for us the significance of the vote we are now seeing. i think it's worth reminding people how unusual this is. i know it happened under theresa
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may, but the idea that mps who are not in government can take control of the agenda in the house of commons, force through a new law in one day which in itself forces a prime minister to go and do something they might not want to do, is pretty incredible. we are in unusual times, but i think it's worth taking a step back and remembering that this is very unusual and it is why it led last night to the sacking, really, of a number of long—standing conservative mps who have been in the mp delaware party fears, because they sanctioned this. they went along with allowing mps to take over the timetable, taking power away from the government, and that is why they we re government, and that is why they were so severely government, and that is why they were so severely dealt with. and it has caused a lot of consternation of course within the party. i think, having given up some of their careers, some of them, in order to do that, i'm sure they will continue to vote against the government at this point of the second reading of the bill, it would be very
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surprising if those rebel numbers went down enough to allow the government to succeed. so boris johnson is looking again at his second parliamentary vote, and i think his second parliamentary defeat. so by nine o'clock this evening this bill could have gone through and it then will go to the house of lords where, i have to tell you, just on the other side of the corridor, all sorts of shenanigans are getting under way, as brexiteer conservative peers try to come up with a way of blocking this becoming the law before parliament, of course, is sent off probably on monday. that could be a very long night for peers in the house of lords, the mps they will debate this bill, i think it's likely to pass, and that's not the end tonight, we will then move on to the motion put down by the government trying to force a general election on october 15. just to be clear, will talk about the election and a second, but just to be clear, how long do you think, what is the maximum time that
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it will take for this bill going through today to actually get through today to actually get through all of its parliamentary stages and become law? that is a good question. what is going on in the house of lords at the moment is they are debating the timetable to find out how quickly it could go through. what has been put down, the timetable for that that has gone down, is it to pass through the house of lords in two days, thursday and friday, but before that can happen the timetable itself has to be approved by peers, and that is what they are trying to block at the moment. so there are brexiteer peers putting down a number of amendments, over 90 amendments, changes to that, they will have to be debated and voted on, so there will be a succession of votes in the house of lords to try to get through those. they could go through the night, then end up with this very bizarre situation where thursday in the house of lords is still wednesday because they've gone through the night. all sorts of things going on down the corridor! that could be tricky, but i do think they will be
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able to get it through. there are ways they can force it, the opposition, to force them to get through the timetable. so i think it is possible, but we could be looking at late on friday, and there is nothing to stop them going through the weekend. bear with us, we will ta ke the weekend. bear with us, we will take a little pause there because the house is voting and its voting after this debate that started at around three o'clock this afternoon, and as vicky was saying, there are lots of parliamentary stages to go through but they are trying to force them altogether to get this legislation onto the statute book in very quick time. the debate itself today, well, there were lots of very considerable contributions during the debate itself. what i would like to do now is give you a flavour of what was said, not least by hilary benn, the labour chair of the brexit select committee who proposed the legislation, but of course it is a ci’oss legislation, but of course it is a cross party grouping that is actually proposing this legislation in the first place, so who come
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together to put this bill they hope on the statute books. let's start with mr benn and listen to some of the contra visions as well. the prime minister talks about getting it done, and ending the uncertainty. but the truth is, and the honourable member made the point so powerfully, no—deal does not end anything. it would simply plunge us into greater uncertainty of all. uncertainty... no, i'm going to bring my remarks to a close. uncertainty about the degree and length of disruption. uncertainty about the border arrangements in northern ireland. uncertainty about what our future relationship, trading relationship would be with our biggest, nearest, and most important trading partners — the other members of the european union. mr speaker, i would sooner boil my head than hand power to the leader of the opposition. but the purpose of this bill, most of us will have no truck with the concept of a vote of no confidence. the purpose of this bill is to instruct this government and this administration how
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to conduct the uk's future arrangements with the european union. it is not an attempt to remove this government. it is certainly not an attempt to hand power to the leader of the opposition. and, mr speaker, it's not us who are heightening the risk of a government led by the leader of the opposition — it is my right honourable friend, by pursuing a course of action which if unchallenged can only lead to a no—deal brexit. this is a disgraceful, in my opinion, a disgraceful reversal of our constitutional arrangements. we operate in a free parliament where we have elections which are taken periodically every five years, as a normal rule. and we make our decisions. we have a system of parliamentary government, not government by parliament, and that is a fundamental constitutional principle.
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and this bill offends that principle, and that is why i'm deeply opposed to its proposals. mr speaker, i'm not standing in the next election, and i'm fast approaching the end of 37 years service to this house, of which i have been proud and honoured beyond words to be a memberof. i'm truly very sad that it should end in this way, and it is my most fervent hope that this house will rediscover the spirit of compromise, humility, and understanding that will enable us finally to push ahead with the vital work in the interests of the whole country that has inevitably had to be so sadly neglected whilst we have devoted so much time to wrestling with brexit. i urge the house to support this bill. cheering. some very powerful contribution is there on all sides of the debate
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that has been taking place. just to update you, if you've justjoined us, mps are now voting on the second reading, that is a key vote on the parliamentary journey of this reading, that is a key vote on the parliamentaryjourney of this bill, this is the bill that mps have been able to consider today because of the vote they had yesterday, they have taken control of commons business, and this bill is designed to prevent an ideal brexit, it is designed to order the prime minister to delay the brexit process unless there is a deal in place, so it's a very significant piece of legislation. as vicky was saying, highly unusual to have this business taking place in this context, and somebody who knows a lot about this, especially from the downing street perspective, is with me now, the director of legislative affairs in theresa may's administration. what you make of what is going on? theresa may's administration. what you make of what is going 0mm theresa may's administration. what you make of what is going on? it is totally. . . you make of what is going on? it is totally... we are all looking at it with total amusement, concern,
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disbelief. it is totally unheard of. and the rules this week have been stretched, to their absolute limit, as we all expect they would be. when we look at this debate on what mps are trying to do with this piece of legislation, what is the thinking in downing street if, as lots assume, it will get through in some form?|j think downing street will be an enormously concerned about this piece of legislation but they will also have factored in that it would be coming or something like it would be coming or something like it would be coming, when the parliament came back after the end of the recess. they will be sitting like us now, watching the vote happening, they will have nothing else to do but sit and wait, and their biggest worry at the moment will be what happens to the moment will be what happens to the numbers. so yesterday the majority i think was 27, 21 tory rebels, i expect that will go up because people will be not only buoyed by the fact that other people have jumped off the cliff first, if you like, and prepared to take the first step, but i suspect a lot of people will have voted against yesterday on the basis of object into how the order paper was taken over, now the order paper has been
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taken over and we are where we are, i suspect more mps will be happy to support the legislation. again, from the perspective of within downing street, looking at the issue of party discipline, the issue of trying to cajole mps who are potential rebels, is it your view that what some people see as the rather heavy—handed approach of this number ten, has not been counter—productive or not? number ten, has not been counter— productive or not?” number ten, has not been counter-productive or not? i think it's difficult to say right now. under the last government with theresa may, she played it very nicely, she was very concerned about ensuring good governance happened and ensuring she managed the party in a, with a gentle but firm hand. that sadly did not work for her although we tried our best. boris is trying something different. it is extreme, with people —— seen people like nick soames leave the party last night, rory stewart, alistair burt, one of the nicest men in parliament, they are all out having lost the whip. it is very
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aggressive. the whips will use every mechanism they have at their disposal. and that is the ultimate red button. can we talk about the vote to try to get a general election? under the fixed term parliament act, which needs that two thirds of mps to back it. do you think those numbers are there for the government or not? it's very difficult to know at the moment, but all the signals everyone is saying and all the commentators, yourself included, have been looking at, suggest the government won't win the motion tonight. and labour has been very clear that they will not support an election unless the bill thatis support an election unless the bill that is going through now has been delivered and actually the steps with a net regarding seeking an extension have been triggered. good to talk to you, joe. we'll talk she will again later. the former
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director of legislative affairs under theresa may. john, thank you for waiting. what is your reading of what is going on right now?|j for waiting. what is your reading of what is going on right now? ijust come out of the voting lobbies, the house of commons is just literally there. there were a large number of conservatives and with the labour and other parties. i expect the government to go down by a significant defeat on the second reading. there's more to do this evening, but it looks as though the bill will through today. what then in terms of the passage of the bill, because of course we have to factor in the house of lords and we were hearing earlier that that may be a rather more complex picture in terms of how they try to amend it, so how do you see the passage of the bill? i think if it goes out of the commons tonight as i expect it it will go to the to the lords, the lords have very different procedures to us. i expect the lords in the end will pass the bill. remember, this is about stopping the prime minister having any wriggle room in terms of
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calling an election or proroguing parliament so he can then in some sort of rogue way deliver no—deal, which we think would be so damaging to our country. this is about clearing the decks ready for a general election. it's not about avoiding election. it'sjust about making sure he has no wriggle room to do such damage to our country. we're just seeing the images from inside commons. and stay with us for a second, because i'm just checking to see whether the tellers are in place. they are nowhere near ready, i think. sojust in place. they are nowhere near ready, i think. so just in terms of the impact of the legislation if it gets onto the statute book, where does that then leave the whole labour strategy around this big question of a general election? labour is ready for a general election, and we want one, but we don't want a general election which leaves the power with really a road prime minister then to use in some sneaky device the
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opportunity to deliver no—deal, because that will be very damaging. as soon as we have, if you like to put it this way, his feet nailed to the ground and there is no chance of a no—deal, we are ready for an election, let me say this will be a very tough fight. we will fight for every vote in our country to show there is a different way of running there is a different way of running the country than the one which we are seeing at the moment, which is really very dangerous. what is your sense of how this debate has developed today, what does it tell you about the current state of opinion within the commons at this late stage of the brexit process? the commons is simply not convinced that the right way to proceed, to deliver the original referendum, is to have a no—deal. remember, they have committed £8.3 billion. so your viewers can understand, £8.3 billion would give £17,000 to every single doctor, nurse and police officer in
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the whole of the uk. this is a massive amount of money on a gamble. there is no need to spend it because we could have a deal with the eu and deliver the brexit, and that seems to me is really quite an inappropriate way for a government to perform. he is visibly wrecking the tory party before our eyes. we can't allow him to destroy the country as well. lots of comment today, as you know, on the entire election strategy, which you were mentioning a short while ago. and again, viewers are asking us directly on social media of what will labour do in a vote on a general election if the prime minister, as we expect now, will come forward and demand backing for an election? is that likely to be, just to be clear, at this stage of the game, given what you now know, is that likely to be a labour abstention on that or what? as you know, as people around the country
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know, as people around the country know, there is a scrap piece of legislation, it requires two thirds of the house of commons to vote for an election. at the present time, until we kill off the idea of no—deal, we will not vote for a general election. but the minute thatis general election. but the minute that is achieved and we are in the process flow that is achieved and we are in the process now delivering that, then we are ready for an election. and i am hungry and ready for the fight when it comes. it is a very interesting time in politics, which is probably the biggest understatement of the century! i've never seen politics anything like this and i've been here for 23 years. you've been reporting for a long time, every day one raises 1's eyebrows and looks around saying, what is happening next? it is the most extraordinary time in our nation's history. it is. and allied to that, i am bound to say, we are all interested in how it works in political terms, but there are works in political terms, but there a re clear works in political terms, but there are clear signs of very unpleasant and deep divisions up and down the uk, and what you say to viewers who
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are asking, how does this resolve itself given that people have invested very often emotionally in the decision they made, and on either side they find it very difficult to come to terms with the thought of any comprised? the country has become angry, divided, and as you say, emotions are running high. | and as you say, emotions are running high. i think people need to take a deep breath, try to see there is a logical path through all this, which would deliver a programme which i think could be able to reunite the country. but these are difficult times. i'm sorry to say this because it sounds partisan, but the government appears to be stoking up the divisions rather than trying to heal them, and that's not a great thing to do, as you know, outside where your cameras are now, people are extremely emotional and angry about all this, and i can understand their anger. but we have to think carefully a nd their anger. but we have to think carefully and rationally and try to plan a careful route through this,
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thatis plan a careful route through this, that is what we are trying to do. thank you forjoining us. and this vote, i think, thank you forjoining us. and this vote, ithink, will thank you forjoining us. and this vote, i think, will be declared within a few minutes. let's take a quick look inside the chamber. this is the first key vote on the legislation that mps are being asked to consider this afternoon, to try to consider this afternoon, to try to put it through its common spaces in very quick succession before it goes to the house of lords. the chamber is pretty full. lots of empty seats on the tory side on the left, but they are filling up. and on the opposition benches on the right, they are kind of, they are ready now. the eyes to the right, 329. the nose to the left, 300.
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the eyes to the right, 329. the nose to the left, 300. so the eyes have it. the eyes have it. unlock! order! so there we have a majority of 29 at this stage in the bill. three to nine for those in favour, and 300 on the government, who were against. the majority against the government last night was 27, so it has gone up by two. so they will move now into the committee stage of this bill where they will consider some amendments. we may get some details on those in a moment. let'sjust wait for that. and i havejoe marler with me again. —— joe wait for that. and i havejoe marler with me again. ——joe moore. reaction? i think it's significant that it has gone up by two mps. the government will be disappointed by that. they will now be waiting to
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see some of the amendments. some of the work they will have seen already. we won't expect to see them until probably, any minute now, to bea until probably, any minute now, to be a nest. those amendments will have been tabled since the beginning of the second reading debate. those tabled up until 330 will be made available, but members could table them right up to the end of the debate, so they could be another paper coming forward in the next hour or so. everyone will be coming through them. the one we've seen already is from stephen kinnock, and although we've not seen the actual table although we've not seen the actual ta ble text although we've not seen the actual table text we expect it to do three things — this will cause that the multi—let of difficulty in some ways. firstly, we expect it to specifically accept their word request any... article 50 so the withdrawal bill published by theresa may but was never put to the house is put to the house and that is what the extension is full. so that is
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brought back. and that has a number of provisions regarding workers' rights, increased environmental protections, etc. the second thing the amendment will do is require the government within five days to publish that bill in draft so that members can see it and scrutinise it, albeit it won't be formally in the house of commons. and finally the house of commons. and finally the amendment would sit there with seek to amend the letter the premise would have to send the eu to request the extension. that is the kinnock one. the deputy speaker is going through some of the others. 15, 16, i7. through some of the others. 15, 16, 17. a new clause one... order! new clause one. schedules plus schedule stand part plus new schedule two. right, let us begin. let us call mr richard graham. so the committee
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stage is about to begin and lindsay hoyle is going through some of those being selected. we will recap that ina being selected. we will recap that in a moment. now i'd like to go outside the chamber of the commons and into the central lobby where my colleague vicky is there and to give us colleague vicky is there and to give usa colleague vicky is there and to give us a little response to what we've just seen and other reaction to.|j don't think it's a huge surprise that the government has been defeated again. although we should remind people this is incredibly unusual. back bench is being able to ta ke unusual. back bench is being able to take over what happens on the floor of the house of commons and change the law against the government's wishes. it is highly unusual. given what happened yesterday i think the numbers were clearly there, including of course from the so—called rebel conservatives who we re so—called rebel conservatives who were then of course booted out of the party for what they have done. i have one of them with me, so nicholas soames, to give his reaction to what's been going on. the second reading got through, presumably you expected that.|j presumably you expected that.” think after last night was mac result we expected it to go through
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as it did. and i expect it to clear all the other stages as well. talk to me about what it's been like the last 2a hours for you after what happened last night, you voted against the government, and the prime minister said he really couldn't put up with people behaving in that way because you were not being loyal to the government. the prime minister made it clear it was a confidence motion for him, i felt i couldn't support the government la st i couldn't support the government last night, that i must support this bill. an consequences, actions of this type of consequences and therefore i was not surprised to be told by the chief whip that i had had the whip taken away from me. and lam had the whip taken away from me. and i am therefore unpleasant in the eyes of the conservative party. —— —— unoersoned. eyes of the conservative party. —— -- unoersoned. a lot of your collea g u es -- unoersoned. a lot of your colleagues said they were disgusted at the way you are treated, former chancellors, the father of the house, to feel like that? there are
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consequences to doing something like, i don't think i matter but to ta ke like, i don't think i matter but to take the whip away from the father of the house, to from two former chancellors, a privy chancellors, is an unprecedented and extremely foolish and crass act. i'm afraid it will rebound on them. it sends such a stupid and unfortunate message to our supporters and would—be voters in the country, that what was a wonderfully, broad, tolerant, humane church has now become a narrow sector. do you think that is what has happened or do you think this is at everything? i think it is a phase. i regret it as a phase, and i think it is part of this relentless chase to be the brexit party, and i'm afraid that as a consequence... evenif i'm afraid that as a consequence... even if i was going to stand, i couldn't possibly stand on an election of no—deal. sol couldn't possibly stand on an election of no—deal. so i fear it has become a bit of a sect, which is a pity because i know the prime
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minister is actually essentially a one nation tory, all these other plans i'm shoulder to shoulder with him. and i'm sorry we should have falle n him. and i'm sorry we should have fallen out like this. that is what strikes me, the people took about borisjohnson is a one nation conservative. there is not that much between you, so how has this been allowed to happen?” between you, so how has this been allowed to happen? i think he feels, andl allowed to happen? i think he feels, and i think he's been ill—advised in this, he feels the only thing that matters is to conclude this by getting an absolutely complicit party who are utterly united in no—deal. the tory party isn't united in no—deal, another is the house, because many of us know the consequences are very serious consequences are very serious indeed. i want an orderly, negotiated transition which will not inflict pain and damage on the uk economy, a security, our integrity asa economy, a security, our integrity as a nation. and i think we will get over the economic impact, we will get over that, they will be bumps on the road, but they will affect, the
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economic effect will affect the least advantaged in our lives. but what really worries me is that britain pins stuck in the world in freefall. —— britain's stock. and i find it sad that after being a parliament that was a major player, we are going to end up in a poor position. what about the flip side, some look at the last three years and say parliament has failed and there was a referendum, it had to be honoured, we have to leave the eu, but actually the parliamentary system itself has not worked out.” think you are right. i voted for the withdrawal bill on each occasion it came to the house because i believe that, i think we have to honour the referendum. i voted that, i think we have to honour the referendum. ivoted more that, i think we have to honour the referendum. i voted more often to leave the eu than borisjohnson, the leader of the and have the members of the cabinet! but there has not been the mill to do it. and we are a parliamentary democracy. —— well to
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do it. and parliament feels this is not the right way to go about it, and that will lead a clash between executive parliament. and such crashes are inevitable when very big interests are at stake. do you think the referendum, obviously, the referendum being called, do you think the referendum is a right way to soaped out... not personally. i think it is the wrong way and i curse myself the rest of my life that i voted for it. i think parliament should decide the big issues. i think parliament is elected by people to decide the big issues. and because it was a referendum, ina issues. and because it was a referendum, in a way, it sort of mulled around like a great tidal wave over a political affairs. have you spoken to borisjohnson about what happened ? you spoken to borisjohnson about what happened? i texted him last night to tell him i was very sorry i would not be able to support him on this. but that i was completely shoulder to shoulder with him on all his other domestic agenda. and the sadness about all this is that it means we are not going to be able to get on with the domestic agenda,
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which i think is enlightened and positive, and as the chancellor outlined today, going to be fully funded. i think there are some very exciting programmes, but we won't be able to get on that until we deal with this. has brexit rope your party? it has made it a very disunited party. -- has brexit broken your party? the country is divided, parliament is therefore naturally divided, and somehow we have to find a way to come together over it, but it is not by shouting at people. so what is the answer, if you are going to advise boris johnson about how he said he wants to unify the country, his party, what can he do now after what happened last night?” what can he do now after what happened last night? i think it is very difficult for him and i don't see the labour party wanting a general election anytime soon. and it is not possible with a fixed term act to secure one without their support. and i think this parliament could run and run. so will be in a
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desperate situation. so you might be here for some time! how have your collea g u es here for some time! how have your colleagues reacted today towards you and what has happened?” colleagues reacted today towards you and what has happened? i have been staggered and overwhelmed by their kindness and generosity. and this will not lead... i have friends on all sides, i voted will not lead... i have friends on all sides, ivoted in will not lead... i have friends on all sides, i voted in the same lobby as the labour party tonight and it's only the fourth time in 37 years i've ever voted against my own government. people understand, and one of the things i think this house values is principal. and i have stood by my principles, i'm not pretending there is anything very great about that, it's what you would expect people to do. but i think the overall impact of what has happened to these 21 conservative members of parliament to be deselected, is something people find very ha rd deselected, is something people find very hard to understand and i think it sends a very bad signal. did borisjohnson it sends a very bad signal. did boris johnson text you back? no, he didn't. but i think he was busy
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doing other things. thank you very much indeed. the view that from one of the conservatives, no longer, at the moment, in the conservative party and possibly, depending when the election happens, may well be experiencing the last couple of days in the house of commons. long—standing conservative member of parliament, but now as he said, the independent member sitting on the independent member sitting on the independent benches now that he has been pushed out because of the fact that he has opposed the government on its brexit policies along with 20 others. we understand now that one of the names that has been added to the list of conservative rebels is caroline spellman, and other very senior conservative mp. we will talk more about that later on. i mentioned amendments to this legislation, proposed legislation
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before the house today. one of the amendments that's been selected is supported by a group of 17 mps that seeks to force the publication of a version of a draft exit bill after weeks of cross party talks between the tories and labour entries theresa may to ensure that any extension to article 50 which is granted by the eu is used to get a deal through. we were talking tojoe more about this a short while ago, but let's remind ourselves that this amendment is submitted by stephen kendrick in south wales, he has asking that today's bill states that the extension is in order to debate and pass a bill to implement the agreement between the uk in the eu under article 50. this was an additional line to this... the additional line to this... the addition of a totally new clause, this is it.
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in other words, the outcome of talks between labour and conservatives. so thatis between labour and conservatives. so that is the gist of it, i want to comment again with joe, that is the gist of it, i want to comment again withjoe, the former director of legislative affairs at downing street about this. what was the full impact of this kinnock amendment? what would it produce if it was incorporated? if it was to be passed and the bill reaches royal assent, which is another question, it will mean the government has to bring forward a withdrawal bill and publish it within five days within the act of getting royal assent. that bill must include the aspects of the interparliamentary talks that went on in may, and the extension will have to be able to facilitate time between that bill, so that bill
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which will be introduced and done in the extension period, will have to include the provisions from the talks. for those watching thinking what is the sensitivity around that, but as the political problem with that? what would you say? this was theresa may's final compromise bill, something negotiated long and hard between different parts of downing street, labour party and other interested groups. i was not closely involved in those negotiations, but i was aware of them and kept up—to—date. but parts of those things were mainly designed to get more moderate people on site, people who support brexit and agree with the direction of it and understand the direction of it and understand the importance of acknowledging and respecting the referendum results. we were unhappy with some of the ways that workers' rights were looked at, or environmental protections were considered. in reality, the original withdrawal agreement was strong on those but
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they wanted these extra reassurances built in in order to win the votes, as we talked about earlier, and that never got put to the house. what are the changes of the amendment being put into the bill? is it fairly minimal given the context you've explained? i think it'll be interesting to see the numbers. i think a number of mps are regretting the fact they did not vote for the withdrawal agreement when they had the opportunity to times. —— three times. the brexiteers will still not like it, it still won't be enough, and there will still be fights over it. . see you later, thank you very much, joe moore, with his expert view on what's been going on. it's been a fairly pleasant afternoon with a bit of sunshine here at westminster, let's ask chris for the latest on the weather notjust here but the uk. certainly south east england has had the best of the day's weather, a cross many northern
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and western areas, it's a different story. you can see these on the radar picture at the moment working their way eastwards across the country, and it's also been pretty windy with gusts around the coast between 40—50 mph. overnight tonight, though showers taking a long way to die away, but eventually getting there with the weather turning dryer later on in the night. a chilly night for eastern scotland in northeast england, temperatures getting into the low single figures. further changes in the weather picture for tomorrow. this type of cloud and rain you can see here will push across the whole of scotland and into northern england through the day. this rain is a warm front, and as the warm front goes through, the winds will turn more to that a south—westerly direction, bringing milder conditions so it won't feel as chilly as northern ireland, england and scotland. further south we are staying dry, temperatures there between 18—20dc. that's the weather. many thanks for the
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weather, and welcome back to westminster. welcome back to westminster, where mps against a no—deal brexit have won in the first vote on the brexit delay bill. they have won the first key vote on the bill that is meant to delay or prevent a no deal. we will talk about that in more detail with chris morris. but one of the principal amendments we were talking about, brought forward by the labour mp stephen kinnock is now being proposed. let's join the stephen kinnock is now being proposed. let'sjoin the proceedings in the house and see what he has to say. increasingly polarised. finding compromise orfinding say. increasingly polarised. finding compromise or finding any route forward will only become more difficult as time goes on. and a further extension to the timetable to leave the eu without a very good, clearly defined purpose will leave most of the country banging their heads across a brick the wall. public are fed up of talking and
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hearing about brexit. most people, regardless of what some campaigners may like to tell themselves, would like to see the referendum result being honoured. therefore ourfirst tabled amendment 6—7, together with our new clause, aim to set a purpose for the extension request until 31 january. the explicit purpose we state should be to pass a brexit bill, and more specifically to pass something similar to the withdrawal agreement bill which was passed in may 2019 as a result of cross party talks. i will give way. may 2019 as a result of cross party talks. iwill give way. ithink may 2019 as a result of cross party talks. i will give way. i think him for giving way, and the honourable gentlemen, asi for giving way, and the honourable gentlemen, as i have worked with him ona gentlemen, as i have worked with him on a couple of issues over the last few years, i think he wants to make good on the referendum. the problem with his extension is that we have repeatedly heard from members of parliament saying they want to respect the will of the referendum, but every time we come to a vote on
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the matter, there is always a reason why they quite can't bring themselves to trot into the lobby and vote for the withdrawal agreement. we've had three occasions where we could have voted for that agreement, for other occasions to express an opinion in favour of norway. in every single time, the same mps trot up and say they support the referendum result, and when it comes to the vote, the vote to block brexit. so what will be different this time? but i would gently say to the honourable member is at the meaningful vote that took place dashed votes are a different kettle of fish to what was used by the cross party talks. as i will come to later in my speech, the cross party talks contain a number of extremely important compromises and concessions for these benches. and it is therefore a travesty that this parliament never had the opportunity to debate or vote on the withdrawal agreement bill will stop it isa withdrawal agreement bill will stop it is a different kettle of fish to
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what went before. this is a putting forward his amendment to the bill in the house of commons right now —— this is stephen kinnock. the process to the house of lords, when the bill moves up to the house of lords, when the bill moves up there, is already being trailed as a rather complex one. people already are starting to talk about what the nature of the timetable would be, how much time the house of lords will give to this bill, and there is a contingent certainly of people who feel that this bill is unhelpful, the probe brexit group. what i have in front of me now is a interesting discussion with someone who represents a very strand of opinion —— different strand of opinion. talk us —— different strand of opinion. talk us through what you think will happen when this bill is going to the house of lords. it's already starting in the lords, we are making history because there is a proposal to have a guillotine in the lords
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because of the prorogation because the government has suspended parliament and we think, next monday, and unless there is a guillotine motion to make sure the bill can go through in two days, there is a danger it will be lost. the lords has been there for a hundred years, this is how serious things are at the moment. this has never happened before, we are debating it at the moment, but the actual motion to do the guillotine can itself be subject to filibusters. we could be there for 36-48 filibusters. we could be there for 36—48 hours, just dealing with the filibusters on the guillotine measure. it could be 15—20 hours by the time we get to the early hours of the morning. what do the public make of that? i hope they will think that what we are actually doing is the public‘s business. this is all the public‘s business. this is all the plumbing going on inside the house of —— houses of parliament. what is going on is that to ensure this bill goes through. it would look at reaches for the house of commons, all these people putting
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their careers on the line, if they pass this bill, and it looks like they will do so this evening, and they will do so this evening, and the lords because of its own procedures is incapable of dealing with it, that would be very bad. there is a big majority in the lords for stopping no deal and staying in the eu because we don't think it's a goodidea the eu because we don't think it's a good idea to be putting people's jobs and livelihoods and the irish border all injeopardy jobs and livelihoods and the irish border all in jeopardy because of her exit. so we will see this through but there are lots of shenanigans going on. you mention that guillotine and you have to get a debate done in a certain amount of time because of prorogation. when can we get some kind of outcome in the house of lords in your view?” think the bill will be passed on friday, but it is possible in unprecedented fashion, it is possible we will be there over the weekend. so my weekend plans are in flux at the moment, and maybe i will be in your studio giving you progress reports during the weekend. i bet you are looking forward to
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that. how does the debate in the lords defer to the one we've heard in commons? it's a bit more polite. people's careers aren't on the line because the lords isn't elected. so even though people feel very strongly about it, people are not being chucked out of parties and having their whole livelihoods thrown in the balance, like it is in the house of commons. but the argument are the same. is it right to suspend parliament for five weeks? should we have the damocles no deal with the possibility of trade being interrupted, the hard border in ireland? people being unable to get in and out of the country? should we allow boris johnson to threaten that, or should we categorically ruled that out? the arguments are the same, they are just being rerun for the second time in the house of lords after the house of commons. thank you very much, andrew. what i'd like to get now is a perspective from brussels and the thinking among
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eu leaders. 0ur europe correspondent, damian grammaticas, is in brussels. we were talking about whether the vote yesterday would in any way change the dynamics of any talks that may be going on between the uk and brussels. what are your thoughts today? i'm in the european parliament right now because here we have the parliament brexit steering group who will shortly be meeting here for an update on the question of whether there has been any progress? that is what we will will be hearing from michel barnier in the next few minutes. he will be coming to brief them. we've already seen michel barnierjust a bit earlier today, and he was updating eu member states, the 27 countries, and their investors here on the way into that meeting. he would only say he was busy working trying to get an agreement, and on the way out, he
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seemed pretty chipper and in a good mood. but he said basically the eu is facing the situation with calm. but the more important thing today, david frost, the prime minister's chief eu adviser, was here at the european commission, he left a short while ago. and as he came out, we tried to ask them questions, asking if there was any progress, but no answer. is this a sham? no answer. he got in his car and drove off. we we re he got in his car and drove off. we were told that he had been discussing with the eu side issues around the back stop, around the political declaration, around a free—trade agreement that boris johnson says he wants. those were all hints of what might be going on, but my reading from that, what you have to see in that, the commission said today nothing new was presented this morning. but this afternoon, if those things and what that was discussed don't amount to anything
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new either. in fact, it amounts to problems in trying to get an agreement with the eu because in all of those things, there are issues where borisjohnson wants agreements on the table changed, but that makes it harder to solve issues around ireland. that's going backwards, not forwards in this process. and that is the only signs of any movement we've seen in brussels today. interesting, thank you so much, damien. let's talk about the steps we see ahead of us, if we can see any steps. lots of options. i'm joined by our reality check correspondent chris morris who is here to break down what could happen next. this is not an easy game, but i'll ask you once again to take us through — we havejust had ask you once again to take us through — we have just had the second reading, we have talked about what is possible in the house of lords. talk us through the steps as you see them. it is 3d chess right now. we are counting down to this
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deadline of 31 october. as things stand if nothing changes, that is the date when we leave the eu, deal or no deal. we know the rebel alliance, including 21 conservative mps from last night, are determined to stop that, and that is what is happening today. the bill currently being debated would force the prime minister to ask the eu for a three month extension until 31 january next year. would it pass or will it fail? if it fails, which looks pretty unlikely, the government keeps control of the brexit process and the prime minister will seek to leave at the end of october, deal or no deal. the opposition could call a vote of no—confidence, and if they want, that could lead to an election. but brexit time would be really tight. now if today's vote passes, the question is whether the government will accept or reject it. if the government except that, boris johnson would have to do what he has promised not to do, request another delay to brexit. the european
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council, the other 27 leaders agreed, brexit will be delayed until the end of january agreed, brexit will be delayed until the end ofjanuary or even agreed, brexit will be delayed until the end of january or even later. if the end of january or even later. if the eu offered a later date, today's bill would force the pm to accept it u nless bill would force the pm to accept it unless it is specifically rejected within two days by mps. if the eu refuses to offer any extension, then the default position is still stands. 31 october, deal or no deal. what if the government says it simply cannot accept parliament's instructions? the pm has said they will seek to hold a general election, requiring the support of two thirds of mps in the house of commons. and if it happens, it is expected to be held on or around 15 october. if mps reject that snap election, the government has said it will follow the law. but if it doesn't and it tried to wriggle out of legislation blocking a no—deal brexit, there would be legal challenges. parliament is due to be suspended from next week for five weeks, so again time is short. talks in brussels continue, looking for a
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compromised exit deal, or does that election become inevitable? in summary, i think if this opposition alliance thinks they can nail this legislation down, that no deal for now is comprehensively ruled out, it feels like all roads are leading to the election, whether slightly before the 31 october deadline or perhaps just slightly after. before the 31 october deadline or perhapsjust slightly after. chris, thanks very much for taking us through that. chris morris with a route map towards where we are going. 0ne one of the earlier exchanges and comments that was interesting was borisjohnson faced comments that was interesting was boris johnson faced renewed... comments that was interesting was borisjohnson faced renewed... to apologise for statements he made where he compared muslim women to
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letterboxes. mrjohnson has been called on to apologise, which were called on to apologise, which were called derogatory. it was a pretty hard—hitting called derogatory. it was a pretty ha rd—hitting exchange, pretty hard—hitting question ha rd—hitting exchange, pretty ha rd—hitting question that ha rd—hitting exchange, pretty hard—hitting question that the mp put to the prime minister. let's ta ke put to the prime minister. let's take a listen to it. mr speaker, if i decide to wear a turban or you decide to wear a cross, or he decides to wear a cap ora cross, or he decides to wear a cap or a skullcap, or she decides to wear a head job or a or a skullcap, or she decides to weara headjob ora burqa, does that mean it is open season for right honourable members of this house to make derogatory and derisive remarks for our appearance? for those of us who have had to endure in face up to being called names such as towel head or tell a band, or coming from bongo bongo land, we can appreciate full well the hurt and pain felt by already vulnerable muslim women when they are described as looking like bank robbers and letterboxes! cheering.
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so rather than hiding behind a sham and whitewash investigations, when will the prime minister finally apologise for his derogatory and racist remarks, which... applause. racist remarks, mr speaker, which have led to a spike in hate crime? and given the increasing prevalence of such incidents within his party, when will the prime minister finally order an inquiry into islamaphobia within the conservative party, something which he and his chancellor promised on national television? cheering. let's hear the answer, the prime minister? mr speaker... order,
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order. order. the response from the prime minister will be heard. prime minister. thank you, mr speaker. can ijust say to minister. thank you, mr speaker. can i just say to the minister. thank you, mr speaker. can ijust say to the honourable gentleman that if you took the trouble to read the article in question, he would see that it was a strong liberal defence, as he began his question by saying, of everybody's right to wear whatever they want in this country. and i speak as somebody who is not only proud to have muslim ancestors, but to be related to sikhs such as himself. i'm also proud, mr speaker, to say that under this government, we have the most diverse cabinet in the history of this country! and we truly reflect modern britain, we truly reflect modern britain, we truly reflect modern britain, we truly reflect modern britain, and mr speaker, what we have yet to hear from anywhere in the labour party is any hint of apology for the virus of
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anti—semitism that is now rampant in their ranks. and i would like to hear that from the honourable member. a pretty powerful exchange there in the house of commons earlier, prime minister is question, borisjohnson facing earlier, prime minister is question, boris johnson facing a earlier, prime minister is question, borisjohnson facing a vicious attack about the things he has said in the past. let's try and get a sense of what's to come in the next few days here in parliament. with me are dia chakravarty, brexit editor at the daily telegraph, and kevin maguire, associate editor of the daily mirror. good to have you both with us. that was a pretty testy exchange at pmqs, wasn't it? it was, in jeremy corbyn tried to play the statesman with fa cts tried to play the statesman with facts and rational arguments, and borisjohnson, who was quite a showman, decided to go for the bluster and attacks in the odd good joke, including calling jeremy corbyn a chicken from the us. but i
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watch the opening day views of prime ministers questions forjohn major, gordon brown, david cameron and theresa may, and that was worse than any of those. i don't think he did particularly well, and he got some laughs in tears from his own side, but he's been battered and bruised. he's lost as it majority, sacking 21 mps, it will be 22 with caroline spellman. he's gone from a majority of 1-45. spellman. he's gone from a majority of 1—45. the phrase of being in office but not being in power could be coined for him. it's not looking good. it is right that the rebellion has only increased today, as well, as he's lost another one of his colleagues. it is very, very difficult to look confident and completely untouched, if you like, by the fact that you have actually
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just lost 21, or now 22 of your colleagues. by your own doing. that is debatable because you could ask if your colleagues are actually willing to give up power tojeremy corbyn proactively, how sensible really is it to consider them as your colleagues? sol really is it to consider them as your colleagues? so i guess you could say that it was a bold move or, as kevin said, that it has backfired — i'm not sure what else he could have done in those circumstances when there are people openly saying that they have more confidence in jeremy corbyn's government in boris johnson's government. on that issue of brexit, as was being said earlier, there is a domestic agenda that they are enthusiastic about and want to see in place. it is on this one issue that has pushed him and others over the edge, so they are making the
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point that they are not backing away from conservative policies, it is this approach that is bothering them. on the bill today, are we confident as observers that this will make it through all these parliamentary stages? it will go through the house of commons, house of lords, they could be sitting overnight. they'll be taking in their flasks and sandwiches and sleeping bags, duvets and so on because they may go through the night. but he's lost it, he could a lwa ys night. but he's lost it, he could always threaten to defy the law down the line. really, i know can't relinquish himself from lies, but he wa nted relinquish himself from lies, but he wanted it as a negotiating tactic. there will be taken off the table, and if he comes up with a deal in on i7 and if he comes up with a deal in on 17 october, he can get a deal through what's left of parliament if he hasn't sidelined or approved it. what is your idea of the prospect of the fixed parliament act of getting two thirds of mps back in time for
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an election? as things currently stand, what are his chances there? it is difficult to say what his chances are. i'm sorry to be vague, but it is quite difficult to understand where jeremy corbyn is on that. because i think there is somewhat of an ambiguity there because emily thorton has been clear she's not up for an election at all until this bill has passed. it's not entirely clear to me that that is also what jeremy corbyn thinks. we are ina also what jeremy corbyn thinks. we are in a turbulent period where borisjohnson decided are in a turbulent period where boris johnson decided he are in a turbulent period where borisjohnson decided he doesn't wa nt borisjohnson decided he doesn't wantan borisjohnson decided he doesn't want an election, now he wants an immediate election. jeremy corbyn says not yet, he wants one later. there are two routes, a two thirds vote, and borisjohnson will not be able to muster those mps. then there's the no—confidence route which isjust a there's the no—confidence route which is just a simple there's the no—confidence route which isjust a simple majority. i think when labour do press forward for that general election, they will go down that route which gives them
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two weeks to form an alternative government. and you have an election, but they want it delayed until after that do or die moment on 31 october so he doesn't say we will die now when we have the election. one borisjohnson die now when we have the election. one boris johnson first said die now when we have the election. one borisjohnson first said he didn't want an election, now he wants one, he only wants one because parliament has tied his hands and won't let him do the negotiation the way he wants to. that is meant to be taking into account two. good to talk to both. that's it from us, coverage continues on the bbc news channel, and the debate in parliament on this bill still carrying an important week in the brexit process. with that, let's join chris for the weather. it's been a pretty turbulent day on the weather front today, we've been a pretty turbulent day on the weatherfront today, we've had gusts of winds around 40—50 mph, whipping up
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of winds around 40—50 mph, whipping up some rough of winds around 40—50 mph, whipping up some rough seas, of winds around 40—50 mph, whipping up some rough seas, this is what the coast of the irish sea looks like, a bit of foam coming up on account of those wins. the winds will stay with us those wins. the winds will stay with us for the first part of the night, particularly the northern half of the country. eventually as pressure rises, it will become drier for eastern scotland into northern england. this is where we will see some of the lower temperatures overnight with clearing skies in those winds falling a bit lighter. now tomorrow we ought to fear the changes in the forecast, we have this cloud and rain pushing into northern ireland. this rain is a warm front, and as the front pushes there, the wind start to blow in from a southwestern direction, bringing some milder air in across northern areas. temperatures in belfast recovering, highs of 18 celsius feeling warmer than today. further south, high teens and it should be dry with spells of sunshine. that's your weather.
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noise today at six: mps deliver another blow to borisjohnson's brexit plans — he's been attacked from all sides of the commons. the ayes to the right, 329. the noes to the left, 300. mps have voted to prevent a no—deal brexit — and this is what the prime minister says it will mean. what he is recommending is yet more... yet more dither, yet more dither yet more delay, yet more uncertainty for business. what we in this government want to do is to deliver on the mandate of the people. he has no plan to get a new deal. no plan, no authority and no majority. and as if all that's not enough, there could be a vote on a snap election later tonight. also on the programme:

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