tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News September 5, 2019 10:00am-11:01am BST
hello, it's thursday, it's ten o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire at westminster. good morning. an election is coming. and downing street are treating today as the first day of their election campaign. but when will it be? we've had a parliament that keeps saying what it doesn't want when it comes to brexit, but it is not deciding on what it wants, and i think we've just got to the point now that we need to let the people decide who should govern this country. labour say "bring it on", but only if no—deal brexit is ruled out first, and the election date suits them. well, i'm trying to be the adult in the room. dealing with boris johnson is like someone dealing with a two or three—year—old having a tantrum, "i want this!" and i'm saying, great, we want a general election as well, but we want a general election that
doesn't jeopardise our economy. how are the main parties going to win you over, who are as divided over brexit as politicans on all sides are? and will the parties who want to stop brexit find a way to work together? also... on this programme yesterday, one senior conservative mp didn't hold back when describing the prime minister's downing street advisor, dominic cummings. an unelected, foul—mouthed oaf, throwing his weight around. it's completely unacceptable. we'll talk to a man who shared an office with him, and says he thrives on creating enemies and fighting them. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. from westminster, again. are you ready for a general election? will
you vote? it would be the third general election in four years. let's know this morning. send us a message on twitter. many guests to talk to this morning and plenty of voters as well, we would love to hear from you wherever you are in the country and we will feed your comments into our conversations. first, samantha simmonds has the news. good morning. good morning, victoria, thank you. boris johnson is facing another legal challenge to his decision to suspend parliament for five weeks before britain's scheduled brexit departure date. the case — brought by the businesswoman gina miller — will take place at the high court. a similar challenge in scotland failed yesterday. the united nations says 70,000 people in the bahamas are in immediate need of food, shelter and medical help — following the devastation of hurricane dorian. 20 people are now known to have died in the abaco islands, where officials say entire communities were washed away. dorian has strengthened again to a category 3 hurricane, with wind speeds up to 115 miles an hour, as it bears down on the eastern coast of the united states.
people who eat vegan and vegetarian diets have a lower risk of heart disease, but a higher risk of having a stroke, a new study suggests. the research, published in the british medicaljournal, looked at a8,000 people for up to 18 years. participants had ten fewer cases of heart disease and three more strokes per 1,000 people compared with the meat—eaters. however, the study cannot prove whether the effect is down diet or another aspect of their lifestyle. a team of scientists will reveal today what they describe as the plausible theory they have identified for sightings of the loch ness monster. researchers from a new zealand university have been cataloguing all living life in loch ness by analysing dna collected from water samples. last month, the team said it had a biological explanation for the loch ness monster. this, along with other findings from the study, are to be announced at an event later today. that is it from me for now, let's go back to victoria in westminster.
i love that story! good morning. this is borisjohnson‘s 44th day as prime minister. he's lost his first three votes as pm. but the bigger picture is this: borisjohnson wants an election — and he will get one — but will it be when he wants it, before october 31st? labour want an election — potentially after october 31st. so, who will win that battle? norman is here, our assistant political editor. downing street is treating today as the first day of an election campaign. if labour get their way, november seventh of if labour get their way, november seventh 01:14. you say it is quite a narrow gap, what is the big deal? if it is in october, massively to the advantage of boris johnson, it is in october, massively to the advantage of borisjohnson, in november, hugely to labour's advantage. boris johnson once november, hugely to labour's advantage. borisjohnson once an early general election because he can't govern at the moment, he is
having endless defeats in parliament and it is all going wrong. he wants to be able to deliver on his pledge to be able to deliver on his pledge to leave the eu come what may on 0ctober to leave the eu come what may on october 31st. so he needs a parliamentary majority to make sure he can do that. so he needs an election before then on october 15th. labour think, you know what, we don't really trust borisjohnson. we don't believe that if he doesn't getan we don't believe that if he doesn't get an election by then that he will actually leave with the eu. so they are saying, why don't we just push it back to november, then we can be absolutely sure that he won't have taken us absolutely sure that he won't have ta ken us out absolutely sure that he won't have taken us out without an agreement? because he will have been required by the bill that was passed to get an extension. exactly, and this is why it is to their advantage, because if borisjohnson has had to go cap in hand and say to the eu, please, please, please can i have an
extension? how humbling? from the man who said it was do or die, i will never do it. in other words, he would have had to break his central pledge and they calculate the electorate would say, this man is hopeless. he couldn't survive, could he? he would be finished. 0ne labour mp yesterday when they were discussing this said, borisjohnson has said it is do or die, let's leave him to die. so they want to play it long and borisjohnson wants to play it short. why is there a split in labour, arguments about whether to do it before october 31st 01’ whether to do it before october 31st or after october 31st? the way you have described it, it is a no—brainerfor have described it, it is a no—brainer for labour to go have described it, it is a no—brainerfor labour to go in november. because frankly, mr corbyn pretty much since he became labour leader, the whole time, he has been banging on about let's have a general election, we want a general election. now boris johnson general election, we want a general election. now borisjohnson said, 0k, election. now borisjohnson said, ok, here you go, here is the general election, jeremy corbyn said, well, we don't know about that. what electorate think? what are you
running scared of? what we will hear from borisjohnson running scared of? what we will hear from boris johnson and running scared of? what we will hear from borisjohnson and we have heard it from sajid javid, is that he is a coward, he is frightened and doesn't have the guts to put himself forward for election. thejeremy corbyn, it isa for election. thejeremy corbyn, it is a calculation of how much damage to put himself forward for election. thejeremy to put himself forward for election. the jeremy corbyn, to put himself forward for election. thejeremy corbyn, it is a calculation of how much damage does he suffer from being seen to run away against the advantage if boris johnson has to bed for a dealfor a moment and reflect on the moments of this week. how astonishing and bizarre and chaotic is what we are witnessing? it is all those things. you almost have to give up guessing what is going to happen next. i say to people in the newsroom, think of the most impossible, implausible, ridiculous, ludicrous thing that will happen and that is what will happen. we are all in a completely different ball game, brexit has changed everything. it has changed how politics is defined, it has reshaped the political parties, it has changed the tone of the debate at westminster. and it is all about,
it cuts to everyone's or really. everything else doesn't matter almost, until we have got this result, nothing is going to happen. and i think some people are so worn out and tired and frazzled, they just think, let's get this done one way or the other. it is interesting, we are seeing quite a few tory mps, some have been deselected, but quite a few just saying, some have been deselected, but quite a fewjust saying, i am not going to stand at the next election. i think pa rt stand at the next election. i think part of their reasoning is they are physically and mentally broken down, they just haven't physically and mentally broken down, theyjust haven't got the energy to go on any more. thank you, norman, for the moment. as always. let's talk to two conservative rebels, whose involvement in any future general election still isn't clear, despite them being thrown out of the party. they are two of 21 tory mps who have been suspended, after helping to defeat the government. some have said they won't stand again anyway — including winston churchill's grandson, sir nicholas soames, who made a memorable speeech
in the commons yesterday. i want to make clear that i have a lwa ys i want to make clear that i have always believed that the referendum result must be honoured and indeed, i voted for the withdrawal agreement on every occasion it has been presented to the house, which is more than can be said for my right honourable friend the prime minister, the leader of the house and other members of the cabinet his serial disloyalty has been such an inspiration to so many others! mr speaker, i am inspiration to so many others! mr speaker, iam not inspiration to so many others! mr speaker, i am not standing at the next election and i am approaching the end of 37 years service to this house, of which i have been proud and honoured beyond words to be a member. i am truly very sad that it should end in this way. and it is my most should end in this way. and it is my m ost fe rve nt should end in this way. and it is my most fervent hope that this house will rediscover the spirit of compromise, humility and understanding that will enable us finally to push ahead with the vital work in the interests of the whole
country that has inevitably had to be so sadly neglected whilst we have devoted so much time to wrestling with brexit. i urge the house to support this bill. another rebel, alistair burt, said he would leave the commons with his head held high. the obsession of my party has developed to devalue my pass defence of the eu, and it may have curtailed my future, but it will not rob me of what i believe. and i will walk out of here... looking at the sky, not down at my shoes. 0ther rebels insist they would like to stand again at the next election. one of them, former justice secretary david gauke, tweeted this last night: "just received a text to say that my association chairman has been told that i am no longer a member of the conservative party. first i'd heard of that. not even a member of the conservative party?! i finally have something in common with dominic cummings." he is boris johnson's he is borisjohnson's top adviser.
mr gauke later tweeted: "just received an urgent clarification. membership still valid, but barred from being re—selected. i don't have anything in common with dominic cummings after all. a happy note on which to end the day." let's talk to two rebels. ed vaizey voted against the government to delay no—deal. he was a culture minister in david cameron's government. he is considering whether to stand in the next election as an independent. and caroline nokes, a former immigration minister, also rebelled. if borisjohnson if boris johnson doesn't if borisjohnson doesn't deliver brexit on october 31st, can he survive? i think it will be very difficult for him which is why he is focused on it and why i was sympathetic over the summer for his position. you take a judgment call, if parliament won't vote for a deal, what is the next worst thing? potentially, it is brexit so you do everything you can —— it is extending brexit. i change my mind and became a rebel when i felt the
prime minister's pledge that he was actively seeking a deal was undermined by his actions, which was effectively to shut down parliament and shut down any opportunity for people like me to have a say on whether we really should crash out with the no—deal. whether we really should crash out with the no-deal. but you have had that say despite his actions to suspend parliament. we have had that say, we had one shot in the locker, which is why i decided to rebel. i sat on my —— i would have sat on my handsif sat on my —— i would have sat on my hands if he hadn't suspended parliament and it sounds a bit pompous, i think you should have had, there was an argument he had the space to negotiate this deal and to get closer and to be able to brief parliament on how far advanced his negotiations were, but it was his negotiations were, but it was his decision to shut down parliament and that debate and that interaction between parliament and the executive. caroline nokes, do you think you can survive if he doesn't deliver brexit by october 31st after everything he said about that deadline? well, he is the one that drew that red line, do or die, to do it by october 315t. sol drew that red line, do or die, to do it by october 315t. so i think he has made it very difficult for
himself. but i want to see a united conservative party fighting a general election after it has delivered brexit and with a common sense and purpose. little chance of that. well, precisely, but when the tories are united, we cannot be beaten and when they are all over the place like they are at the moment, i think holding a general election now is a very dangerous strategy. why? the party is divided and even those who didn'tjoin strategy. why? the party is divided and even those who didn't join the rebel alliance are very uncomfortable. but they signed up to no—deal so in that sense, the parties united and it has become the leave party, you could argue. exactly, i say i was elected as a conservative and not as a brexit party memberand not conservative and not as a brexit party member and not ukip. conservative and not as a brexit party memberand not ukip. and it feels like the mud at people not welcome any more. how do you feel about the way you have been treated? lam about the way you have been treated? i am really sad, i about the way you have been treated? lam really sad, i have been alert —— an elected conservative for 20 years, the last nine in parliament
and all in my home seat, the place where i was brought up and i went to school, so it is cutting and i won the seat from the liberal democrats andl the seat from the liberal democrats and i thought for eight years to win it back for the tories. so it feels like i have been given it a real kick in the teeth. but you knew what was coming, you had been warned. that is quite right, but was this really a confidence matter? there are arguments to say it just wasn't, it was about giving parliament time and that is one of the few tools parliament had come a time to scrutinise, to look at the progress of the negotiations, to understand the direction of travel the prime minister was taking a zen. then suddenly, at that time was tucked away. ed vaizey, have you had a text message from your best friend david cameron about the way you have been dispatched from the party? he is not my best friend. i have known him for many years and i worked with him. he isa human many years and i worked with him. he is a human being and i am a human being and when i made a decision which may well have ended my political career and i have been active in the conservative party for
35 years, i haven't had quite the level of achievement caroline has in winning seats, but he reached out as a human being to recognise that fa ct. a human being to recognise that fact. does he bear any responsibility for the chain of events ? responsibility for the chain of events? i have always defended him on this because i make the point that given where the conservative party was on europe, if you are ever going to elect a conservative party government, at some point, you would have a referendum. if david cameron had held back on a referendum, the next leader would have had to have a cast—iron pledge to the membership to have a referendum and would have had a referendum in my view. we will never know, not necessarily. from a personal point of view, how does the fa ct personal point of view, how does the fact that you are chucked out of the conservative party affect you and yourfamily life, conservative party affect you and your family life, caroline nokes? conservative party affect you and your family life, caroline noke57m is going to be really difficult and i make no bones about it, i have no outside income, this is my one and onlyjob. and you are a single parent. i onlyjob. and you are a single parent. lam onlyjob. and you are a single parent. i am a single mother with a mortgage to pay. this is about looking to the future. i desperately wa nt looking to the future. i desperately want to stand as a conservative and
i want to be welcomed back into the family! i want to be welcomed back into the family i have always been part of. and you have staff as well?|j family i have always been part of. and you have staff as well? i have four members of staff and two of them are single mothers and they have rent to pay and for them to be staring down the barrel of a general election and unemployment in a few weeks' time is really tough, so the decision i took on tuesday, i agonised about it long and hard. but in the end, you have to stand up for your own principles and your own integrity and do what you believe in. and! integrity and do what you believe in. and i had one member of staff send me a message last night and she said, i would send me a message last night and she said, iwould rather work send me a message last night and she said, i would rather work for somebody with integrity than not. what are you going to do, both of you, are you going to stand as independents? i of italy, it has been a whirlwind 48 hours and it is ha rd been a whirlwind 48 hours and it is hard for reality to sink in but this has happened —— obviously. i echo what caroline says, we have been taken off the tory party at whip with a hasty dispatch and my chief of staff was on the management committee are my local association,
she has been suspended from that which i think is pretty brutal. why? because she works for an independent mp, despite the fact she has been a conservative councillor and has worked for the conservatives for many years. what do you think of that? i think it is bright —— brutal. we are finding something surprising because conservative mps do sometimes have the whip removed foran do sometimes have the whip removed for an investigation and they are in suspended animation. we are being shuffled out with unseemly haste. so i was hoping for a reconciliation. i wasn't planning to stand as an independent, but i have had so much support for my constituency and part of me feels if i am being bundled out like this, i may not be bundled out like this, i may not be bundled out without a fight. i want to echo that. you want to try to stick it up them, do you? no, iwant to that. you want to try to stick it up them, do you? no, i want to stick up for my constituents, for those people who have e—mailed me over the la st 48 people who have e—mailed me over the last 48 hours saying, caroline, we back you as an independent, we would prefer you to be a conservative, but if you are not, we will come out and
help. numerous people saying we can help. numerous people saying we can help you run a campaign as an independent, and that is very tempting. i do think, it is an indictment to a certain extent of me as an mp because have i obviously been following the conservative playbook for the last couple of yea rs, playbook for the last couple of years, but there is a silent majority rising up over the last few days looking on in horror at the fa ct days looking on in horror at the fact that a small cabal has taken over the party and is driving through an ideological desire, driving the country off a cliff to a no—deal brexit and they have not been listened to, their views have not been accommodated, it has been about people claiming to represent the will of the people for the ha rd est of the will of the people for the hardest of hard brexit. there is a less silent majority who do once brexit by october 31st and are delighted by what they see from borisjohnson. he says it, he seems strong, he sounds like he means it and they want him, they trust him to ta ke and they want him, they trust him to take the uk out of the eu and october 31st. the art of being a good prime minister is not to focus on the 52 of the 48 but the 100 and
try and bring people back together again. that is what i want to see from the prime minister. that is not his strategy clearly. not at the moment, but i want to see him governing for the whole country, leave and remain, north and south, thatis leave and remain, north and south, that is the real art of being a statesman. are you invited to david cameron's book launch? i hope so. you have not had the invite yet? no. you have not had the invite yet? no. you are definitely not his best friend, then. i got that wrong, sorry. i thought you were going to say, i got that invitation six weeks ago. you are joking? thank you. brain says, no point having an election as mps don't represent our wishes and go off on their own agenda as proven by recent events, no point in an election. image and says, an opportunity to get rid of my mp sooner rather than later, bring it on! peter says, conservatives and labour are finished and i was a labour voter, it is either the brexit party or the liberal democrats. that is quite extraordinary because that is either end of the political spectrum.
james, neither major party is fit to govern this country. especially under the current leadership. they have both made the uk a laughing stock across europe. i don't think anyone can remain true once they become an mp. the system is corrupt. liz says, simple solution, a people's vote. i mean, you could argue a general election is a people's vote. effectively. leaving no deal, terms and conditions specified. leave with a deal, terms and conditions specified. remain, terms and conditions specified. this says, iam ready terms and conditions specified. this says, i am ready for an election, bring it on, more than ready! suzanne says, i am bring it on, more than ready! suzanne says, iam ready bring it on, more than ready! suzanne says, i am ready for an election, parliament wants to keep the public out, many are doing what, many are not doing what is right for us, but what is right for them. let's talk to some conservative voters and a tory mp loyal to borisjohnson.
we will talk to labour and the snp and independence later in the programme. jayde edwards, who favours a no—deal brexit, melissa gurusinghe, who wants to leave with a deal, and jordan byrne, who wants a second referendum. and they're alongside conservative mp harriett baldwin. good morning, thank you for coming on the programme. do you want a general election is conservative voters ? general election is conservative voters? -- as conservative voters. i think so. i think general election is the way we are so to say i do or don't want it doesn't really mean much, itjust seems like we are in an avalanche. do you accept it with delight, or are you feeling a little bit resigned? resigned, for sure. jordan? to be fair, i think before we knew — — jordan? to be fair, i think before we knew —— move anywhere towards a general election and before parliament passes a vote to dissolve
itself, we have to get the law signed so no—deal brexit is avoided on october 315t, that is the absolute priority first. in that sense, you agree with many in the labour party who are saying we have to have an election after october 3ist to have an election after october 31st so boris johnson will to have an election after october 31st so borisjohnson will have been required to ask for an extension?m is notjust the labour party, it is the majority in parliament that supports that decision. politics is all about trust. do you trust your prime minister? a lot of people within the conservative party don't trust and members of the public don't trust. do you? do i trust if an election were scheduled before the 315t that something wouldn't happen? they have said they would ignore the rule of law and they want to prorogue parliament. it is quite difficult. so will you be voting conservative when the election comes? you are not sure, clearly. jayde, what about yourself question but that is the issue of trust,
having another general election means we don't trust our mps. having another general election means we don't trust our mp5. i understand why we would have won because borisjohnson does need a majority, but the issue is if you call a general election, it means you don't trust yourself as an mp or someone as a member of parliament to do what the people have asked you to do what the people have asked you to do and that is to leave. right, but you want a no—deal. do and that is to leave. right, but you want a no-deal. i want a no—deal, yes. you want a no-deal. i want a no-deal, yes. so you would want a general election? so i understand why. what do you want? i want a no—deal. when boris johnson why. what do you want? i want a no—deal. when borisjohnson said and he agreed we were going to leave on october 315t, the likelihood of leaving with no—deal, everybody knew that, even though borisjohnson may not have said it. the issue now is that the people, or those in parliament, need to understand that you going back and forth, parliament right now looks like a playground. we need to leave a no—deal. but he has got a majority, as you rightly say, so that is why there has to be a general election. also, there is
no mandate, let's be absolutely clear, there is absolutely no mandate for no—deal. clear, there is absolutely no mandate for no-deal. let harriett baldwin talk to about that, jordan. please! this is one of your three conservative mps. a good illustration that they all leave and wa nt illustration that they all leave and want different things, you have heard a bit of mistrust from one of them in your boss, what you say to jordan? there is no public mandate for no—deal? jordan? there is no public mandate for no-deal? you have got three outstanding young voters, conservative voters, who demonstrate what a wide range of views that are in parliament and also in the general public. for me, i think this has come down to a simple question of trying to give the prime minister the strongest possible hand in his negotiations with the european union. to jordan's point. negotiations with the european union. tojordan's point. that is why i think it is important to give him that backing and that is why if he needs to go to the country to get that back in, then i think that is something that will end up being the right call. i am going to repeat
what you said, jordan. ijust right call. i am going to repeat what you said, jordan. i just want you to addressjordan's question, that there is no public mandate for a no—deal brexit. that there is no public mandate for a no-deal brexit. the ballot paper said either remain or leave. my judgment is in leaving, we ought to do it with the withdrawal agreement which melissa has supported, and i voted for that three times. i think it covers so many good things. but you still haven't got to his point, do you agree that there is no public mandate for a no—deal brexit?” don't think i am because i am saying that parliament has voted to trigger article 50 and the labour party voted. public mandate. then i think the 2017 election was again asking the 2017 election was again asking the public for their view and in our ma nifesto. the public for their view and in our manifesto. we lost our majority! we did not get more than 50% of voters! in parliament at the moment, we are having such difficulties. before you
carry on, my country. the 201710 election, most people voted for parties offering to leave with a deal. jordan made a very good point, he put it to you there is no public mandate for a no—deal brexit, is he right. yes or no? i think there is a legislative mandate, yes. public mandate. last night said we would hold general election. to us the public for a mandate on that. i think there is definitely a mandate to lead. of course there is a mandate to leave, nobody is to peace —— disputing that can leave a no—deal, jordan said. —— disputing that can leave a no-deal, jordan said. the public voted to leave and they didn't express voted to leave and they didn't ex press a voted to leave and they didn't express a view on whether it was with a deal or without. so there is no public mandate to leave without a deal, that is the logical conclusion. and i back the deal. seriously, i don't understand the labour position. no, i am sorry. hang on. that is the government
line. i want to bring hang on. that is the government line. iwant to bring in hang on. that is the government line. i want to bring in melissa, surrey, jordan and jayde. what you say to harriett baldwin about the position the conservatives find themselves in as a result of what has happened over the last few days? personally, i don't think we should have a no—deal brexit. i don't want that, i don't think any one in the country wants that. jayde does. nobody wants it, but what other choice do we have? parliament did not, the majority did not vote for the withdrawal agreement, so we either go back to the eu and they have already said no, or we end up having another referendum and the likelihood is we stay. my issue is we have spent three years on this, limiting issues which i spoke to you earlier about which had become nonexistent. no, i earlier about which had become nonexistent. no, lam not saying i wa nt nonexistent. no, lam not saying i want to leave with no—deal, but what choice do we have? just a quick point. no, what choice do we have?
well, if the choice really is between no—deal and if boris says he wants to renegotiate, it looks like a sham, nicholas soames said when you are offering such an unrealistic choice to the eu, of course we are going towards no—deal. if we end up towards no—deal when parliament have ruled it out multiple times and there is literally no mandate from there is literally no mandate from the country for this. as we see here, there is someone, ivoted the country for this. as we see here, there is someone, i voted to remain and melissa backs leaving with a deal, so does harriet, she wants to leave with no—deal. it shows the hypocrisy within the leave campaign. if we get to the situation where we are leaving with no—deal, the public has to sign off, there is no other way to get a proper mandate for what a lot of experts say will be very damaging for the country. back to the public in a general election, that is a second referendum effectively. it wouldn't be the same thing. in a general election, there are lots of things, you look at the economy and transport. it will be the brexit
election. the brexit debate will dominate, but there is no etter way to solve best than a clear referendum between leaving with no—deal and to remain or whatever —— better. i want the eu to budge. i wa nt better. i want the eu to budge. i want the prime minister to have the strongest possible backing. on that point about the eu budging and 12 eco saying he is committed to negotiations although apparently no proposals have been put forward to the eu. let's say there is a deal he brings back here that is broadly acceptable. there is not time between ben and october 31st to get it ratified over there and to get all the necessary legislation through here. so he still, he can't do that by october 31st. so that is a sham, is it not? i think that it would be strong enough and the legislation that is going through at the moment interestingly had an amendment but down by stephen kinnock and a group of labour mps
said —— so i think there is a chance that at the last minute, parliament could blink and if we haven't had a general election, with the future partnership defined in the way the stephen kinnock amendment had set out, so i think that is a possible outturn. that is the withdrawal agreement that boris johnson himself voted against two times and many of the hardline remainers and brexiteers absolutely will not be voting for. everyday is a surprise, i don't think we can anything out. i don't think it's the right thing to do i don't think it's the right thing todoa i don't think it's the right thing to do a better virus to put myself in the shares of borisjohnson you are trying to get the job done and
your team is voting against you. what other choice i go left with? they need to go. i was appalled when i woke they need to go. i was appalled when iwoke up they need to go. i was appalled when i woke up on wednesday morning and devotees like ken clarke were not in the party and that is not the conservative party ijoined. i do not agree at all. boris johnson gave the morning and that isjust an inevitable consequence of voting against the government. is that the way to an election? there are three diversities within the conservative party. at least. we have seen one nation conservative purged from the party. it is not going to be 21 conservative mps. there will be millions of moderate voters who will look on in horror. it is not the
general election winning strategy. what is the strategy? politics is a tough trade. i would have liked to see a tenant, similarly tough stance in march when we had that confidence issue on the withdrawal agreement. looking ahead to a general election? all of us realising what a privilege it is to serve their constituents and we are prepared to reapply for ourjobs at regular intervals. this is the business we have chosen. thank you. richard says a general election yes, before we can guarantee to stop no deal brexit no, borisjohnson is guarantee to stop no deal brexit no, boris johnson is not guarantee to stop no deal brexit no, borisjohnson is not to be trusted. d says trying to understand by the opposition seems reluctant to seize the day. not all opposition parties would say that is accurate. take up negotiations with europe. this person says they have taken power away from boris johnson and
person says they have taken power away from borisjohnson and signed the death warrant on their conservative party. they will not win an election until they can categorically assure the public they will leave in october, deal or no deal. any business would stack any staff who deliberately go against that. eileen says i will vote conservative, brexit has gone on long enough, i voted to leave and i would do so again. they've says we need a general election after the 3ist need a general election after the 31st of october. labour have played a blinder through this brexit mess. ian says simple to start brexit, a two— pa rt ian says simple to start brexit, a two—part referendum, part one in out, part two, radio or no deal. sorted. it is easy when you not involved. let us talk to...
how are the so—called remain alliance, that's some of the smaller parties who don't want brexit to happen — or, at least, want a second referendum — going to work together to make sure they don't effectively cancel each other out in the any forthcoming general election? kirsty blackman, the snp's deputy leader at westminster, anna soubry, leader of the independent group for change, and tom brake, from the liberal democrats. are you are going to put aside any differences and work together in the forthcoming general election so you do not split the remaining or stop no deal brexit vote? it is important to say that we have been working together for years. sure, but this is the crucial bet. you may think so. forgive me. it is really important that this narrative that somehow we haven't been putting our country first and foremost for a number of years is simply not the case. what are you going to do and a general election? it would be the stuff of madness for me to stand a candidate against somebody like tom
orany of candidate against somebody like tom or any of the other lib dems and indeed against any of those remarkable conservatives who have shown so much courage this week and found themselves after decades of loyal service after one vote being booted out of their party in such a disgraceful way, even though people with decades of disloyalty retain the web, but in any event we will hopefully, all of us here, the situation is rather different... hopefully, all of us here, the situation is rather different. . ij appreciate situation is rather different. . i appreciate that. you heard what she said about not fielding candidates in constituencies where you have a chance to beat labour potentially. would you do the same? we are rather jumping the gun. we need to complete the process of making sure we relied no deal before talking about the general election. i have heard voters asking if they remain lots are going to work together.l voters asking if they remain lots are going to work together. a number of occasions in recent general elections where for instance the
liberal democrats did not field a candidate against caroline lucas. there have been occasions when the greens have not fielded candidates against us, enrichment for example. formal arrangements operate at local council level. i would not exclude those arrangements are playing up and down the country and different seats. you are not going to stand against me, are you? no. 59 seats in scotland, we will be fighting to get all 59 and fighting a campaign in each and every one of those seats. what happens in scotland? the lib dems are not going to stand aside. in scotland it is a different case because the elections in scotland have become very much in favour of keeping scotland within the united kingdom or not and that has polarised the political scene in
scotland in a different way and in scotland in a different way and in scotland there will be some quite vigorous contests between the liberal democrats and the snp because we have a different position on that issue of the united kingdom and the other two parties are likely to do very badly because they are both being affected by the remain leave the issue. i look forward to the vigorous contests with the snp in scotland. you will definitely have some. in terms of the timing of the general election you would go for it before october the 31st? yes. we would like their spell to get royal assent first and then we would be keen to see a general election happen. you are shaking your head. but the snp would be doing would potentially be facilitating a no deal brexit. do you accept that? no. the bill takes no deal brexit of the table. but boris johnson could
repeal the legislation. table. but boris johnson could repealthe legislation. there is table. but boris johnson could repeal the legislation. there is the potential of having that general election. nobody trusts the prime minister. why would you go for a general election before october the 3ist? general election before october the 31st? if he has a general election on the 10th of november then be cash out during the general election campaign. we have worked together, often quietly, very discreetly, to make sure we get this legislation through, and it would be an abdication of our duty to our country if we were at this crucial moment tojeopardise country if we were at this crucial moment to jeopardise what we have achieved so far, which is preventing achieved so far, which is preventing ano achieved so far, which is preventing a no deal brexit, not stopping brexit, but preventing a no deal brexit, but preventing a no deal brexit, because of the harm it would do the job is. i think it is really important. the idea that the snp, but then it has been a pleasure to work within that cross—party way, would jeopardise that by being so tribal about things to risk a
general election before we make sure we have got it, which is october the 315t, it is very sad. we have got it, which is october the 31st, it is very sad. this would be an example of the snp putting party before country. it would be in the liberal democrats interest at the moment to have a general election. he pulls are very good for us. we would love to take on the tories. in places like st albans for instance. we think this is not the right time. we think this is not the right time. we need to lock in this extension to the 31st of january and by all means afterwards let's go for a general election. the likelihood of getting a general election after that time... argue putting before country? no. we are trying to do everything we can to go against no deal and we have worked cross—party. this is an illustration of people who are broadly speaking have similar views about brexit and no deal brexit not agreeing on a really crucial point. we will do everything
we can to reduce the number of conservative selected anti—religious borisjohnson's majority. we will do everything we can... it would be less advantageous after october the sist. less advantageous after october the 31st. if the polls were different in scotla nd 31st. if the polls were different in scotland for the snp i suspect there the snp i suspect that leader will ta ke the snp i suspect that leader will take a different view. it gives me no pleasure to say this but the content no pleasure to say this but the co nte nt of no pleasure to say this but the content of what you say i wish it we re content of what you say i wish it were true but i think it is true, they are putting their narrow interests in scotland above even scotland's interests which is to stop no deal. can you be clear... the question was i hope you're not going to stand against me, are you going to stand against me, are you going to stand against me, are you going to field a candidate? why don't you make it clear? it is not
my position to do that. what would be the right thing to do? to make sure candidates who are permitted to ensuring that the uk stays in the european union, which is what we wa nt european union, which is what we want to do, in constituencies like that, which is why we stood down for caroline lucas, we come to an informal arrangement. caroline lucas, we come to an informal arrangementi caroline lucas, we come to an informal arrangement. i would be happy to go and campaign for the lib dem candidate in certain constituencies. why don't you join the lib dems? i am a one nation tory. there are some things we do not agree on. we do not agree on. that is why if i was going to join the lib dems i would havejoined them in february. i believe we have problems with all political parties and we need a new approach which is what we are trying to do in change and with social democratic labour. at the moment i do not find a natural home in the lib dems but we
have so much... that is what we did in government together. who is the man boris johnson has brought into the heart of government — his top aide dominic cummings? the 47—year—old from durham — once a special advisor to michael gove — was the campaign director for vote leave. this is how the senior conservative mp sir roger gale described mrcummings on our programme yesterday. at the heart of number 10 as the prime minister's senior adviser, an unelected foul—mouthed of throwing his wet around. it is completely unacceptable. if the prime minister does not have dominic cummings frogmarched out of downing street himself then the chances are it will not be the tory rebels as they are called, it will not bejeremy corbyn, it will be mr cummings will
bring down this administration. and this is what conservative rebel and ex digital minister margot james said about mr cummings in the commons yesterday. the great lady who you and i both revere i am sure the great lady who you and i both revere i am sure one the great lady who you and i both revere i am sure one said advisers advised, ministers decide. can i ask the prime minister to bear that statement closely in mind in relation to his own chief adviser dominic cummings? so, who is he — and is he even a conservative? let's talk to matt sanders, a special adviser to the former deputy prime minister nick clegg from 2011 to 2015. he shared an office with dominic cummings, who worked for michael gove, in the department for education when the tories and lib dems were in coalition. it seems like a political edge away. do you agree with roger gale?i
it seems like a political edge away. do you agree with roger gale? i am not sure i would put it in those terms. i think it is definitely true that dominic is someone who relishes a fight but i think the defining characteristic is he is at his best when he is fighting someone so in education he invented best enemy, anyone who disagreed with him, and what we see is him creating an enemy so he can really roll his sleeves up and get involved in that fight but it is very surprising for lots of people to see that the enemy he has picked seems to be the party he is working for alongside the eu remain voters and that is something dominic is going to be really enjoying. really? i would have thought so. what is interesting as you get tory mps like roger gale and margotjames turning on dominic because he is actually becoming quite a toxic presence for them. he is actually
getting all this attention and we are sad talking about dominic cummings. when one of those so—called backroom advisers becomes the story it is often time for them to go. what he has been behind to a greater or lesser extent the decision to set tory mps that have the vote against the government that they would be expelled and then to carry it through a residential prime minister? as we have said in the commons advisers adviser on ministers decide that those kind of tactics are entirely in keeping with dominic cummings but i know, he had ruthlessly focused on his goal and relative that all costs. he is fairly contemptuous of parliamentarians and the whole political system. i always saw him being extremely rude about conservative mps, any mps. seeing what? i'm not sure i have specific
exa m ples what? i'm not sure i have specific examples but he was certainly... he certainly oversaw parliamentarians as part of the problem, as the obstacles for achieving what he wa nted obstacles for achieving what he wanted to achieve, and something that had to be for the past. the other thing that conservative mps are seeing is i never saw any love from dominic for the conservative party. he got frustrated with me and nick clegg and david cameron and other senior conservatives. he was using the conservative party has a vehicle for his own hands and that is what he is doing now and they are wising up to it. it might be exactly what voters want. it is clearly what borisjohnson what voters want. it is clearly what boris johnson wants. remember what voters want. it is clearly what borisjohnson wants. remember david cameron's strategy ahead of an election was to go for the big ten strategy, try to get the lib dem voters over to the tories add it works in 2015. what is the strategy ahead of this general election?i think what he is advising is to try
to rebuild that vote to leave coalition that powered the referendum result. there are two things, he wants to deliver brexit and destroy the brexit party. that isa and destroy the brexit party. that is a strategy but it is a strategy that deserves huge number of mps and voters in the centre ground to have private previous conservative victories. the danger for the conservatives is they have this aggressive kind of boring non—consensual style of politics and thatis non—consensual style of politics and that is going to be a turn—off for a huge number of voters that want to politicians working together —— warring. i don't know if you saw yesterday's
picture of the leader of the house of commons jacob rees mogg reclined across the green benches in parliament. he came in for a lot of criticism. labour mp anna turley called it the "physical embodiment of arrogance, entitlement, disrespect and contempt for our parliament". but that photo has sparked some brilliant internet memes. just take a look at this. that has been read about 40,000 times so far. lots of others that have been really popular. the scene has been likened to what looks like a lovely impressionist painting. someone else has put the leader of the house of commons in mid—highjump.
another twitter user says that jacob rees—mogg's body language is the perfect example to use to illustrate the falling size of the conservative majority since 2017. when do labour want a general election, which they've been calling forfor over a year? many labour mps want one only after they've forced the prime minister to accept what he says he will never accept — a delay to brexit. an election in november therefore. others argue it can and should be held on borisjohnson's proposed date — october 15th — just days before a crucial eu summit. in pmqs yesterday this is how jeremy corbyn described the pm's promise of an election. it is like the author of an apple to snow white. it is not an apple, it is the poison of an ordeal. —— a no deal. let's talk to labour mp
lloyd russell—moyle and with him some labour voters who have questions for him. are you clear about when your boss wa nts a are you clear about when your boss wants a general election? as soon as possible without falling into the trap the lion has set? what date does that mean? i cannot tell you that because the bill has not passed through the house of lords. they say this will pass through the house of lords tomorrow but this prime minister has been sacked previously from previous jobs minister has been sacked previously from previousjobs for minister has been sacked previously from previous jobs for lying. minister has been sacked previously from previousjobs for lying. let's see the queen was like signature on that bill and might see it implemented and when we have those implemented... the civil servants sending the letter or whatever, the very first opportunity we need to checkin very first opportunity we need to check in that general election because we cannot allow a lawyer in ten downing st for too long. implemented, does that mean he has
been required to go to brussels to ask for an extension or not? last night there was some discussion from brussels that they might accept as a matter of law, even if he doesn't ask, it would automatically trigger it. we need to check that so it is watertight with the lawyers because ido watertight with the lawyers because i do not trust a word. why is it not a no—brainerfor i do not trust a word. why is it not a no—brainer for labour? i do not trust a word. why is it not a no—brainerfor labour? go for a general election after october the 3ist general election after october the 31st so either he limps on and on impotent kind of way or he has to go. why would you not go for november? i agree november is clearly the first date that we know at the moment but it might be that that date can be brought forward because it might be the extension has already been achieved earlier. i am not going to wait to the 1st of november if we know the extension has already been achieved at the lawyers in process and the eu have
agreed that. the 1st of november is the first day we currently know of but it might be sooner. what do you think? what do you want labour to do? they have to be careful in terms of falling into the traps boris johnson is going to set for them. luckily we have seenjeremy johnson is going to set for them. luckily we have seen jeremy corbyn cnp is not going to go for a general election until you have ruled out no deal. the majority of labour voters support a second referendum on brexit and we have to make sure we do not fall into these traps and end up do not fall into these traps and end up leaving the eu but no deal. do you think labour can sustain the sp called a coward, having jeremy corbyn on the front of the sun with a check outfit on? i don't think they can because they are not certain of what they want to do because they feel like they want to have a second referendum or go ahead with a no deal brexit and i do not
feel like they can sustain but she's things that haven't happened to them so by the end of october it might happen again. do you thinkjeremy corbyn is currently? i thinkjeremy corbyn is currently? i thinkjeremy corbyn is currently? i thinkjeremy corbyn is playing it right. he comes across as a balanced diplomatic way of handling negotiations and when you look at her bodice has dealt with the negotiations he has been quite reckless in his appeal to the national some rather than looking at what the benefits are for the economics of the country so i think jeremy corbyn has played how the members wanted him to play. you want to leave the eu? yes, i voted to leave, i think that is right, but made basis was on the basis of the
workers, pro—migrant agenda not on what boris is offering which is burning down the house where we are still in it. emails from labour supporters, charlie says last night in our social club staunch labour voters in the past decided that jeremy corbyn would be a disastrous choice as prime minister, labour leaders need to get in touch with the common people and find out they are not as popular as they think they are. you can always find one person to say one thing. i had a text message from my best friend at school when we were at secondary school when we were at secondary school together, he has a green liberal swing voters, not staunch labour, he says he walked down past 20 homeless people last night and said we cannot continue like this and whatever it takes me need to get jeremy end and he is willing to swallow his pride to get jeremy jeremy end and he is willing to swallow his pride to getjeremy in so you will have some people on one
side but you have swathes of people saying we cannot continue like this andjeremy saying we cannot continue like this and jeremy has policies that would transform britain. someone says i voted labour for 40 years, transform britain. someone says i voted labourfor 40 years, i predicted we would leave the eu and donald trump and when. i think labour and the jeremy donald trump and when. i think labour and thejeremy corbyn will come third in an election behind the conservatives and brexit party u nless conservatives and brexit party unless jeremy corbyn conservatives and brexit party unlessjeremy corbyn resigns. i will not vote for him. would you dismiss that? everyone that you can take out you will find other people... that is somebody who has voted... that is fair... do you not feel regretful that somebody who says they have voted labour for 41 years does not wa nt voted labour for 41 years does not wantjeremy voted labour for 41 years does not want jeremy corbyn to voted labour for 41 years does not wantjeremy corbyn to be prime minister? it is sad if anybody does not want jeremy to be prime minister? it is sad if anybody does not wantjeremy to be prime minister andl not wantjeremy to be prime minister and i think we can show them through the actions of jeremy and i think we can show them through the actions ofjeremy during an election campaign, and your saw it
la st election campaign, and your saw it last time, lots of things on the media, front pages of the papers saying nasty things, and when the election was called jeremy was talking about the policies that matter, coastal communities, mining communities, and that is what cut through and that is why we need to leap in the polls we did last time and if we get that this time we would see the georgian government chucked out and a good progressive right—wing government in. chucked out and a good progressive right-wing government in. as a labour voter what do they need to do regarding their brexit policy in order to win the next general election? they need to be very clear in saying that we don't want to leave the eu with no deal, we want a second referendum on brexit and in 2016 the brexit neighbour promised is not the brexit in front of us so we need a second referendum and that is not democracy. labour should argue for more democracy. allow people to go back to the ballot box and see the sort of brexit they want. i want labour to be the party
of remain and it should be. we could see the shortages, medicine shortages, we need to be the party of remain. i want to remain as well. it there is going to be short supplies. we do not know that. we know what has been suggested as a worst—case scenario. should labour be the party of leave or remain? there is a lot of problems with the eu especially within the railways which i work and, preventing the ra i lwa ys which i work and, preventing the railways from being nationalised and that was labour's manifesto promise and one of the biggest problems for labour, they need to look at plp
working with jeremy labour, they need to look at plp working withjeremy corbyn as leader this time round because last time it was a lot to do with undermining within their own party and an internal struggle preventing them winning an election. earlier conservative voters divided and we have seen labour voters divided because everyone has their fears. should labour be the party of leave or remain? we have seen people coming round... i think remain as the option but we need to give a chance for reverse. the second referendum is probably the answer. we started off with plenty of sunshine across many parts of the uk. further north there has been a bit of rain this morning on some showers into this afternoon but for many of us blue skies and that was the scene in london this morning.
the cloud will build up a little bit towards northern and western parts and we will see showers into the north midlands. some showers in the north—east of scotland through this afternoon. otherwise a dry day and a fairly bright day with spells of sunshine and maximum temperatures 15 to 19, maybe 20 in the south—east of england. tonight rain is going to spread into scotland and northern ireland, quite heavy as it moves further south would enter northern england and north wales. temperatures for many staying up in double figures but it is the string thatis double figures but it is the string that is going to move southward during friday. some showers following behind but generally the northern part sunny spells into the afternoon with the rain when getting across the far side.
you're watching bbc newsroom live with annita mcveigh in westminster. the headlines at 11:00am. number ten says boris johnson will speak directly to the public later today, to argue his case for a general election. the prime minister wants opposition parties to agree to an early general election, after last night's defeat on the issue in the house of commons. the shadow chancellor says timing is key. this prime minister has been defeated four times. he hasn't won a vote in parliament yet. why? because actually we've been using the right strategy so now we are in that situation where we bring people with us and we maximise the date to protect against no—deal. a late night pact between the government and labour peers in the house of lords, to ensure the bill to block