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tv   Victoria Derbyshire  BBC News  September 6, 2019 10:00am-11:01am BST

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hello, it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire. zimbabwe's former president robert mugabe dies, aged 95. we'll talk to the vice president of the opposition party. his legacy shouldn't be detracted by the fact that there were atrocities commissioned and remissions committed. i think today, we must mourn robert mugabe. it's the end of a bruising week in the commons for the prime minister and his brexit plans. do you accept that brexit might not happen? no, i don't. we're going to get out. and what we don't want
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is more pointless delay! we've got an audience of mps and voters here in the studio to talk about what happens next, in the last few days before parliament is suspended. this programme has been told the owners of porn—streaming site pornhub are profiting from "revenge porn" and failing to remove videos once reported. i was hysterical. i broke down, i stayed in my room for at least three days, didn't leave the house. i actually smashed up my mobile phone that i was viewing the footage on. pornhub says it "strongly condemns" revenge porn. hello. welcome to the programme. we're live until 11 this morning. do get in touch on all the stories we're talking about — use the hashtag victoria live. if you're emailing and are happy
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for us to contact you — and maybe want to take part in the programme — please include your phone number in your message. if you text, you'll be charged at the standard network rate. first, the news. thank you. good morning, everyone. robert mugabe, zimbabwe's first post—independence prime minister and later president, has died aged 95. mr mugabe had been receiving treatment in a hospital in singapore since april. he was ousted in a military coup in 2017, after 37 years in power. the prime minister is in scotland today, after losing a series of crucial votes in the commons. he will announce millions of pounds for the scottish farming industry, as he continues to press for a general election. but labour has warned they'll block the move until they've made sure the government can't leave the eu without a deal. the government in the bahamas has warned of a staggering death toll from hurricane dorian. 23 people have been confirmed dead, but that number is expected to rise substantially because of the devastation caused
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in parts of the country. the hurricane has moved on and is battering the coasts of south and north carolina. tens of thousands of homes are without power. this programme has been told that the owners of porn—streaming site pornhub are profiting from "revenge porn" and failing to remove videos once reported. campaign group #notyourporn said such content allowed pornhub owners mindgeek to make greater advertising revenues. pornhub said it "strongly condemns" revenge porn. women who experience severe stress during pregnancy are almost ten times more likely to have children who develop personality disorders by the age of 30, according to new research. even moderate prolonged stress may have an impact on child development. the study, published in the britishjournal of psychiatry, is based on the experiences of more than 3,500 pregnant women from finland, and their children. the royal college of psychiatrists says stress is a common factor in every pregnancy.
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a rare two—headed rattlesnake has been found in a forest in the united states. the new—born reptile was spotted in newjersey last month. he's been nicknamed double dave, in honour of the two environmentalists who found him. he's now being cared for by a local conservation group, who had to apply for a special rare reptile permit to keep him. we go back now tojoanna. thank you very much. robert mugabe, the former president of zimbabwe, has died. he was 95 and had been ill for some time. he led zimbabwe as prime minister and president for 37 years, after the country was created from the white—minority—ruled rhodesia in 1980. mugabe's early years were praised for widening access to health and education. but his controversial land reform programme sparked an economic collapse and his latter years were marked by rights abuses and corruption.
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he was eventually forced from office by the army — which had, for years, kept him in power. this morning, zimbabwe's president emmerson mnangagwa announced mr mugabe's death on his official twitter feed, saying: "it is with the utmost sadness that i announce the passing on of zimbabwe's founding father and former president, cde robert mugabe. comrade mugabe was an icon of liberation, a pan—africanist who dedicated his life to the emancipation and empowerment of his people. his contribution to the history of our nation and continent will never be forgotten. may his soul rest in eternal peace." let's talk to... lord peter hain. hejoins us from our studio in westminster. he is a former labour foreign office minister and met mugabe in 1999. tendai biti, who is the vice president of the movement for democratic change alliance — zimba bwe‘s opposition party.
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he served under robert mugabe as finance minister from 2009 until 2013 in a coalition government which contained a mix of opponents and supporters of mugabe. the festival, your thoughts about the passing of robert mugabe, tendai? i think the passing of any individual is tragic, the passing of robert mugabe is tragic and condolences to his wife and three children. i must also acknowledge he was a towering figure in the liberation of our country, together with the likes of others. no one can ta ke with the likes of others. no one can take the contribution of his to the decolonisation of our country. but we must also acknowledge there were many contradictions. he failed to transform himself from the liberator to unifier. and so he leaves a legacy of total destruction. and
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ironically, the contradictions he created became what devoured him. the coup of november 2017, which created, gave rise to emmerson mnangagwa. but in the 22 months that 52 -- mnangagwa. but in the 22 months that 52 —— emmerson mnangagwa has been in power, given the deprivation and closure of political space and the murder of people and destruction of oui’ murder of people and destruction of our economy, murder of people and destruction of oui’ economy, emmerson murder of people and destruction of our economy, emmerson mnangagwa is 110w our economy, emmerson mnangagwa is now making mugabe look very good. so the current regime in its ugliness is making mugabe look like a saint. but trust me, mugabe was not a saint. but i don't feel bitter. i understand the era. but we need to rebuild this country after 38 years of mugabe and 22 months of emmerson mnangagwa. peter hain, it is true to say that when he came to power, he
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came with a background that meant that many thought he would be a force for good for his country. how did you feel when he came along and how quickly did that change? well, i felt elated, i cheered his victory, a landslide victory in early 1980. and i agree very much with most of what tendai biti said. tendai biti himself has played an heroic role in zimbabwean politics in recent decades. but mugabe started off as a liberation hero. and somebody who was imprisoned by the old racist white minority regime of ian smith. tortured. not allowed to attend his son's funeral. and therefore, he suffered a great deal for the cause of the liberation of zimbabwe from that racist, repressive ian smith regime. andl that racist, repressive ian smith regime. and i think his role in that it needs to be acknowledged. and he came into power preaching reconciliation and bringing all the different people in zimbabwe
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together and pledging to build a new future. and then over the years, he began to betray that, those values, began to betray that, those values, began to betray those premises. so by the time i met him for example, oi'i by the time i met him for example, on the first occasion when i was bitten's african minister at the end of 1999, he was already in a very bad place. —— britain's. itried to build relations with him, but that didn't work. he was running a very close regime, difficult for the outside world to really get a good scrutiny of what was going on because of the banning of journalists. for people who perhaps we re journalists. for people who perhaps were not so much journalists. for people who perhaps were not so much aware journalists. for people who perhaps were not so much aware of what was going on, there will be people knelt for him it has not been a particularly active story, described the worst of what was going on under robert mugabe in those years. well, i guess tendai biti can do that from first hand experience. for me, what was so first hand experience. for me, what was so tragic about mugabe, and he
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isa was so tragic about mugabe, and he is a case study on how somebody who can come to power with great hope and preaching noble ideals ends up betraying all those ideals of the freedom struggle and consigning his country to economic bankruptcy, murdering and intimidating and exerting, taking violence against his opponents, including tendai biti and the leader of the mdc morgan tsvangirai. you love that election in the mid 2000s to leader morgan tsvangirai in the first round and it was clear he would lose it in the second round when the final candidates had dropped out. and so he unleashed a wave of terror on mdc vote rs he unleashed a wave of terror on mdc voters and supporters and activists, to the point where tsvangirai decided, well, he can't enter the
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second round because he would be unleashing violence and murder on his own people and his own activists. so he withdrew from the struggle. so mugabe ended up so desperate to cling to power and became increasingly corrupt and venal and surrounding himself with a corrupt military security and political elite that he just distanced himself completely from where he had once been, to the tragedy of his own reputation and particularly to the misery of his owi'i particularly to the misery of his own people. and pick up on what peter hain was saying, tendai biti, that wave of terror unleashed, the murder, the intimidation, your experiences of it and the experiences of it and the experiences of it and the experiences of ordinary people there. welcome the peat is very right. to the outside world, he was this great pan— africanist —— peter is very right. he stood up against white peter. particularly on the
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reform programme from 2,000. to ask zimbabweans, he never stopped fighting the war that ended in 1979. he never became the president of zimbabwe. he was the ordinary leader of zanu—pf and a patronage and self—aggrandizement. because you never demobilise from the war that endedin never demobilise from the war that ended in 1979, the military in 1981 and 1982, he unleashed a genocide which left 30,000 people dead. when we formed the mdc in 1999, we were subjected to the same vicious form of violence of 2,000. then the run
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of violence of 2,000. then the run of election of june of violence of 2,000. then the run of election ofjune 2008 which peter was talking about, where the people of zimbabwe were brought to their knees, forcing morgan tsvangirai and the mdc to pull out of that election on the 20th ofjune 2008. but it is the economic destruction that is the refu rb the economic destruction that is the refurb —— unbelievable. in the 19805,... it is refurb —— unbelievable. in the 1980s,... it is the economic destruction. but as i said before, he became a victim of the contradictions that he created. because in 2008, he used the military to prevent morgan tsvangirai from taking over as the president of the country. ironically, it was the same military that then removed him in november of 2017. now, those people in 2008 are now running the country. we have now
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jumped from the pot into the fire. zimbabweans are suffering and it is felt that we are here because of mugabe's failure to create a sustainable, democratic and unified zimbabwe. so he became a victim of his own omissions and a victim of his own omissions and a victim of his own omissions and a victim of his own creation. which is why i said at the beginning, he is a man of contradictions. he was a child of the revolution, but the revolution uprooted him at the end of the day. and he was a very angry man because his comrades, his minions that he created and raised and gave milk, they are the ones who betrayed him in november of 2017. peter hain, in terms of the international reaction to what was going on in zimbabwe, was it a complete failure? in many ways, i suppose you could say it was. for example, britain, when i was. for example, britain, when i
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was africa minister and before, was prepared to spend up to £800 million of overseas aid and development assistance to help the land reform programme, which we agreed as a labour government was absolutely right for zimbabwe to secure. because the land had been stolen from the indigenous zimbabwe and people by european settlers centuries before. and so we provided money to have a legal basis for compensating the farmers, many of them white farmers, but often 100 black workers on each farm on average, in order to make that transition, but mugabe didn't do it that way. he seized the land, he murdered white farmers and he dispossessed every time 100 black workers also of their own jobs. and as important, those farms and the agricultural sector which had made zimbabwe the breadbasket of southern africa, exporting food, feeding its owi'i africa, exporting food, feeding its own people, but also exporting food,
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and he turned those farms into barren and infertile pieces of land run by cronies of mugabe who handed these farms as part of the corruption and cronyism —— who were handed. and they could not find them and they didn't. as a result of which, zimbabwe ended up importing food, they had been dependent on food, they had been dependent on food aid by international relief agencies. and that was just one example of his destruction of the economy because of this self—serving elite and corruption that he had created around him. and there was another side to mugabe which i experienced directly. i met him for the first time at the end of 1999 when i was britain's africa minister, ina when i was britain's africa minister, in a london hotel. we had a very good meeting trying to build better relations. the next morning, he was subjected to a civilian arrest by peter tatchell, the gay
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rights campaigner, for his repressive attitude to zimbabweans who are gay and he went absolutely mad and he denounced me as the organiser of that protest, which i knew nothing about. and he then said peter tatchell was my wife. which was news to peter tatchell, to me and to my own wife! so they had that kind of, he had that kind of fanatical side to him and that rampant homophobia as well, which was another part of his personality that became very twisted in the end and tragic for his own people. and just a final thought from you, tendai biti. peter hain giving a very graphic anecdote of a particular experience he had with robert mugabe, are particular moments which stand out for you, direct contact with him? of course, of course. just to give you an example, and the 11th of march 2007, morgan tsvangirai, then leader of the mdc, and the new leader of the
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mdc, myself and others were brutally assaulted in a township in harare for demonstrating. mugabe came out a few days later laughing and saying the police should have beaten us more. a few years later, we were in the same government together and he chaired our cabinet meetings as president. but in those meetings, he was this most unflappable of gentlemen. he was more british than peter you are talking to. total victorian gentleman. and there was a contradiction of mugabe the president with this gentleman who spoke fantastic english at this meeting. so mugabe the personality was a very disarming personality, which was at odds with mugabe
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dictator, the destroyer that was ruling zimbabwe. but everything said and done, i have to say that we must recognise the role he played, we must recognise his limitations came from his own background. and therefore, we say rest in peace and we say to his wife and children, condolences. tendai biti, thank you very much indeed. lord peter hain, thank you very much. breaking news from the high court, it has rejected the challenge mounted by gina miller. parliament should be sitting. we are therefore pleased that the judges have given us permission is to appeal to the supreme court, which we will be doing. and they felt that our case has the merit to be handed up. so we are looking to sit in the supreme court, they have pencilled in the 17th of september for the appeal hearing. today, we stand for everyone. we stand for the future
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generations and we stand for representative democracy. to give up now would be a dereliction of our responsibility. we need to protect our institutions. it is not right that they should be shut down or bullied. especially at this most mess “— bullied. especially at this most mess —— most momentous time in our history. my legal team and i will not give up the fight for democracy. thank you. business women gina miller mounted that challenge in the high court to the proroguing or suspension of parliament. other legal actions are underweight you may be aware of. similar hearings in scotland and also in northern ireland. and the case at the high court was joined by former tory prime ministerjohn major. they have lost their case, but they are going now up to the supreme court and they had been
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given leave to take an appeal to the supreme court so the fight continues. and that hearing will happen on the 17th of september, a week on tuesday. well, as the brexit deadline draws ever closer — borisjohnson has said he would "rather be dead in a ditch" then ask the eu to delay beyond the 31st of october. we've got a group of voters here, who'll be putting their questions to mps in a moment about what all this means to them. do get in touch if you have a question too. but first, let's recap on what's happened in this tumultuous week. parliament returned with a vengeance this week, after a summer of political plotting, and what was trailed as a week of high drama didn't disappoint. so, let's rewind and take stock. the storm of events started early, as mps arrived back at work on tuesday. whilst borisjohnson spoke in the house of commons about the g7 and his key brexit arguments,
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a former conservative minister — phillip lee — crossed the house tojoin the lib dems. but the main drama was still to come. tuesday also saw mps opposed to borisjohnson's brexit strategy trying to grab control of the parliamentary timetable from the government, as part of a plan to make a law designed to stop borisjohnson taking the uk out of the eu without a deal. in fact, 21 tory mps — some famous names amongst them — decided to defy the government to vote with the opposition in favour of the plan. and as a result, the day ended with a big defeat for the government, and the groundwork in place for a law blocking no—deal to follow. as for the tory rebels, they were then unceremoniously booted out of the party — ex—ministers and all. the government made a valiant effort to keep calm and carry on on wednesday, as mrjohnson went ahead with his first prime minister's questions. and sajid javid, the chancellor of the exchequer, set out his spending plans. but following on from tuesday,
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the opposition scheme came to fruition, as a bill designed to stop a no—deal brexit was introduced to the house of commons, against the government's will. by forcing the pm to request an extension to the october 31st deadline in the absence of a deal with the eu, the bill was designed to take the threat of no—deal off the table — an idea that the government thinks will seriously undermine its negotiating position. as expected, the bill sailed through the house of commons. the ayes to the right, 327. the noes to the left, 299. and infuriated by what he called the surrender bill, borisjohnson responded by calling for a general election. there must now be an election on tuesday, october 15th. not so fast, said the opposition. under the new fixed—term parliament act, the government needs a two—third majority in the commons to call a general election. normally, opposition politicians
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would have jumped at the chance to boot out the government, but these are not normal times. despite clamouring for an election for years, the labour party said it wouldn't back one until the law preventing a no—deal brexit had made its way all the way through the house of lords and onto the statute books. and so, without opposition support, the government failed to make the benchmark required for a general election. it was the second major defeat of the day, and a couple of blistering speeches from the opposition also added to the government's woes. when they are described as looking like bank robbers and letterboxes! by thursday, after a successful trip through the commons, the bill designed to block no—deal was making its way to the house of lords, where many of its supporters feared it would be wrecked by government—supporting peers. but in the early hours of the morning, the government agreed that it would allow the bill to pass through. with this concession made, the government also announced plans to ask again for a general election, which they hoped the opposition
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would now support. unfortunately, like everything brexit—related, it's not so straightforward. some opposition mps don't want to agree to a general election until after an extension to prevent a no—deal brexit on the 31st of october has not only passed into uk law, but has also been fully secured with the eu. that could mean they wouldn't be prepared to support an election until after october 31st. meanwhile, in another shock development, the prime minister's brother — the universities ministerjo johnson — decided to walk out on the government, saying that he was torn between family loyalty and the national interest. and someone else looking for an exit strategy was the labour mp luciana berger, who left the party to become the latest addition to the lib dems. with three brexit—related court cases making their way through the courts and more parliamentary battles to come, expect more high drama in the days ahead. as this week has shown, this is not a political season for the faint—hearted.
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well, joining us now is liberal democrat mp for liverpool wavertree luciana berger. she used to be an mp for the labour party. she quit in february to become an independent over the party's handing over anti—semitism cases. labour mp for slough tan dhesi. he was in the news this week when he put a question to the prime minister. he wants to honour the brexit vote, but is staunchly against no—deal. philip hollobone, conservative mp for kettering. he says if the tories don't deliver brexit by october 31st, it's all over for the party. we are alsojoined we are also joined by a studio audience and we will talk to them in audience and we will talk to them in a moment. philip lebed, has never been a more disastrous start for a prime minister? i very much doubt it. do you think? we face a choice in this country between having a marxist prime minister who would keep it in the european union or a
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conservative prime minister who ta kes conservative prime minister who takes us out on october 31st. you sort of smiled when you said you very much doubt there has been a more disastrous start for a prime minister previously. do you feel proud that he is your leader? well, iam proud that he is your leader? well, i am ashamed of parliament because parliament continues to block the will of the people. they voted more than four years ago now to leave the european union and at every turn, parliament has blocked is leaving. we keep going round in the same circle on that. they voted to leave, but not necessarily without a deal. well, they voted to leave, if you leave anything, you do so with a deal or without a deal. given that it has been impossible to find a deal acceptable to parliament committee on the other way to leave his without one. has boris johnson dug a hole for himself because he says he would rather die in a ditch and ask for says he would rather die in a ditch and askforan says he would rather die in a ditch and ask for an extension? increasingly, his hands are being tied. is the way to sort this out not to trust the people and put it to the people and let them decide who they want to be the prime minister? there is no trust in
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parliament that he won't use a mechanism of an election to then try to force a no—deal brexit. mechanism of an election to then try to force a no-deal brexit. well, let's put it to the people, let them decide. the majority in parliament is opposed to a no—deal brexit and parliamentarians are determined to stop that. if borisjohnson had not on several occasions done completely the opposite from what he said, there might be some trust in parliament. because liberal democrats and labour, and we will hear from them democrats and labour, and we will hearfrom them in a moment, want an election, but they don't want it on boris johnson's terms. the problem is people don't trust parliamentarians and rightly so. because of 650 mps, 500 of them voted to remain, and the 150 voted to leave. there is a clear majority in the country. in my own constituency of kettering, 61% voted to leave. they are in despair that more than three years later, we are still in this organisation. boris johnson is going to scotland today
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to visit a farm, to visit fishermen. he went to visit a fish market and he was in moree yesterday and he was heckled by somebody who said, you should be in brussels yesterday, you are not, you are playing games, there is no chance of a new deal. you are just playing games. that was basically the strong heckled towards him. why is he going around trying to appeal to voters, why is he not trying to negotiate a deal? well, he is trying to negotiate a deal, we have upped the negotiations with the european union. but you have reduced the negotiating team. david frost the negotiating team. david frost the chief negotiator is out in brussels twice a week with detailed negotiations. the word coming through is there is no proposal being put forward and what is happening is a rid —— is a red line going through the withdrawal agreement are nothing more concrete. the word coming to you quote is from the european union and we seem to believe everything the european union says, but we don't believe anything the government says. union says, but we don't believe anything the government saysm there are concrete proposals, why
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not put them forward and let everybody know? mps have said, if we know there is a plan and there is a possibility of a deal, then we might go for it. the prime minister has made it very clear he wants to leave the deal. you keep saying that, but he's not saying what he will put forward to make a deal happen. because the deal has not been concluded yet and when it is, it will be put before parliament. luciana berger, you are a labour mp and then an independent, now you are and then an independent, now you are a liberal democrat, is it time to go to the voters? because all these things keep happening and the voters who we will hear from shortly, small group, they are sitting at home unable to do anything about what is going on the politicians. we need to resolve the brexit first, that has to be a priority. it is not just a general election in and of itself. let's take the withdrawal agreement, when we get a final version, to the british people and let them decide. we had seen the
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paralysis in recent days. i trust the british people to resolve brexit. you wanted a referendum?” wa nt brexit. you wanted a referendum?” want a people's vote. so why try to tie the hands of the prime minister with a no—deal brexit before going to the people? why not give the people the chance to see what they think of the three options, no—deal brexit, remain, or a think of the three options, no—deal brexit, remain, ora deal? we think of the three options, no—deal brexit, remain, or a deal? we need to resolve brexit, first and foremost. we will not do that via a general election. i have been on a general election. i have been on a general election. i have been on a general election and it is clear from the catastrophe over the past week that this prime minister is in no way, shape or form fit to lead the country, but we have had so many challenges over the past three years and in my constituency the proportion of people wanting to remain has increased massively since we had the 2016 referendum. i had someone we had the 2016 referendum. i had someone from yougov, we will put
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that point to him. we need to be honest with the british people... are you afraid of the british people? not actual, i have listened to my constituents in the country andi to my constituents in the country and i have looked at the government's own assessment of what a no—deal brexit would mean and what brexit would mean, we are contending with stopping a no—deal brexit because of the catastrophic consequences of the government's own report. i had joined the liberal democrats, they are very open with the public to say we want to stop brexit because of what it will do to the future of the country. tan, no deal will potentially become law on monday, why wouldn't labour back a general election then? the first item on the agenda is stopping a new deal brexit. my slow constituency as a whole business hub, we have more corporate headquarters in slough than in the whole of northern
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ireland, wales and scotland. they say the last thing we need is a no—deal brexit. say the last thing we need is a no-deal brexit. you don't want a no—deal brexit on monday —— mega you don't want to know deal brexit, but on monday, ruling that out will probably become law? his own party, the prime minister's party, does not have faith in him, let alone as. the prime minister's party, does not have faith in him, let alone asm that has been legislated for then why not support the prime minister in having a general election before 0ctober in having a general election before october 31? we are in very interesting times, the goalposts are consta ntly interesting times, the goalposts are constantly being moved. it is at the whim of the government to suddenly change the rules as they see fit, which is why we do not see faith that if we allow the election to happen before, then we will have that no deal. can ijust come in on that. really briefly, i could feel
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the audience desperate to dive in. ala government is not repaired to rule out observing the rule of law. many things have happened over the past week but in that instance we need to ensure we have article 50 confirmed to be extended. let's get some thought from chris curtis from the polling organisation yougov, who can tell us what may happen in the eventuality of a general election. we also have a bunch of voters. charles braunstein — a member of the conservative party, who voted leave and would like a deal, but is happy to go without one, if that's what it takes. colleen wilson — a remainer, who is considering voting for the liberal democrats. husband and wife martin rudd and monica dowling — both brexiteers, who want a second referendum.
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alex round — a 24—year—old masters student who has never voted before.. ariana hart — a politics student and labour party member. dave edgell — a taxi driver from cardiff who wants to leave the eu. he supports the brexit party. and keith parry is a floating brexit voter who would be happy with a no—deal brexit. who wants to dive in with virtue action to the politicians? my daughter will be 18 october 28. she was not able to vote in the last referendum. —— will be 18 on october 28. how about having a referendum for all those young people whose future we will be affecting in the future? what about a referendum where you have either no deal or remain? would you prefer a referendum than a general election? at the moment, i think the referendum is really important because it muddies the waters with all the other things the political parties want to talk about in a general election. i would like a referendum first, followed by a
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general election. has anyone got a question to put to the politicians? what is the labour policy, if they got into power, in terms of negotiating a deal? it is a bit above my pay grade to dictate labour party policy, but what the likes of me will be putting and have already put tojeremy me will be putting and have already put to jeremy corbyn and the leadership is that if it is labour in charge, we need to negotiate a very close and cooperative and collaborative relationship with european partners, partners we have shared values with. we have more than four decades of shared agreements and intertwined, interlinked, whether it is trade, commerce, in terms of political agreements, our safety and security. we do not want to throwaway all of that hard earned things that have made our country the success that it has become. that is why we need the
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close and collaborative relationship rather than a no deal or a distant relationship. are you happy with that answer? last night on question time, emily thornberry was asked about the position. it is clear labour are scared of the electorate, i don't know if it is the marxist tendency of its leader, he does not like democracy, but they are scared the electorate will vote potentially for the conservatives and the leave site and maybe even the lib dems and the remain side, so for a leader that has asked for an election for two years and is now taking the position not to when he has the chance, it says a lot about labour. the last thing we are scared of his the electorate. during the last election, when labour was 24 points behind in the opinion polls, even then ourmps behind in the opinion polls, even then our mps voted for a general election. the likes of myself, i am
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very confident that if i go back to the voters in slough, given the hard work, i have been holding five advice surgeries, even on a sunday morning, i have been knocking on doors, i morning, i have been knocking on doors, lam morning, i have been knocking on doors, i am very confident to be returned back, but rather than putting our interests of taking power and getting rid of this shambolic government, we need to be getting rid of the no deal scenario, then in the fullness of time we will get to the general election and i am very confident we will boot out this incompetent, chaotic shambles of a tory government. dave? yes? what do you think when you hear the politicians? i have lost faith in the politicians. i would also say they have lost sight of the bigger picture. across europe now, i think it is quite clear that the southern european countries have been brought to their knees by being tied to the
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euro andi to their knees by being tied to the euro and i can see the future as a federal europe run by germany because as they give more and more bailouts, and they will have to, to the likes of italy, greece... so you wa nt to the likes of italy, greece... so you want to leave, what do you think about the way this is being handled? boris johnson's attempts about the way this is being handled? borisjohnson's attempts to make it happen and labour and the lib dems, and other opposition parties, trying to stop no—deal brexit? and other opposition parties, trying to stop no-deal brexit? they all have their own agendas and it has been very clear that the likes of jeremy corbyn has used this as a method to bring down the tory government. i would certainly see the future to get out of europe. my advice to boris would be to tell germany and france to halt car imports to the uk today and we will talk about the car imports after brexit is sorted, that is the only
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way you can make them listen. luciana berger, you are a lib dems now but previously you were a labour politician going through the years that have happened since the referendum. has there not been an awful lot of politicking going on whereby the deal that theresa may put forward, that actually it's not far away from labour's stated position, their concern around the backstop would go away in the event of regulatory alignment, so why didn't people vote for that? on the issue of car production, for a constituency like mine which neighbours jaguar land rover, it will be catastrophic if we do not have both the important export of things forjust—in—time production, if we are not exporting because it will crucify our car production industry in this country, it is very
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dangerous territory. i campaigned to remain in the european union because i think it is the best deal we have, and the idea that we can get... but the referendum when the other way? as politicians we have a responsibility to be honest with the country about what the repercussions will be about us crashing out. this is not about joining will be about us crashing out. this is not aboutjoining the euro. liverpool has been a massive beneficiary from being in the eu in terms of trade, business and support received. what will happen as a result in terms of our knowledge economy, the impact on universities and jobs... when economy, the impact on universities and jobs. .. when you hear politicians saying what luciano is saying, that voters need to understand what no deal means, how do you feel? i campaigned in the first referendum and ina remain. in the first referendum the number of
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vote rs the first referendum the number of voters i spoke to who said i don't really understand what europe is —— andl really understand what europe is —— and i and a remain. senior european parliamentarians have accused our supposedly to leaders of never informing the electorate. we now have a much more informed electorate. we have mentioned the question of youth, who were largely pro—european, i cannot say all, i think those are the reasons we need a second referendum to clarify those issues. i am a second referendum to clarify those issues. lam not a second referendum to clarify those issues. i am not convinced that the democratic referendum was a true voice of the people, i think it was an ill informed voice of the people. why can't we have a second referendum which will clarify this question. chris, what at the indications you are getting that you gather about whether people have changed their views after all the debate after the referendum ? changed their views after all the
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debate after the referendum? remain would almost certainly start a second referendum campaign as favourites. looking at the polls at the moment, about 50 to 53% remain to about 47% leave, it is not that big a shift but it has moved from one side of the 50% line to the other. three main things are pushing that. firstly you have a few, not many, who had changed their minds. mostly people who voted for the labour party in 2017, leave the year before, some have moved to remain. the second thing is the enthusiasm gap has shifted, leave did a very good job at getting voters at the last election who do not normally vote. it would be hard for them to replicate that. the third thing, we had seen some demographic changes. there was a massive age graded. some people have now left us who voted to
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leave in the last referendum, new people have joined the electorate. but that is only how the referendum campaign will start, and when you are talking about these tight numbers there is no reason to believe that i could not change over the course of the campaign as all of these arguments are made. and we have seen again and again polls not accurately predicting the outcome. what about a general election? dominic cummings, boris johnson's adviser, has said that a general election would be very difficult for the tories? it would, and the main reason is because their strategy is to go after another very large chunk of the electorate. we talk about leave being on 47 of 48%, there is an even smaller subset of that you have a favourable view of boris johnson and an even smaller subset who want the no—deal brexit that borisjohnson is at least going for all considering. the likes of boris
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johnson are hoping that they can get that group up to about 35%, but eve ryo ne that group up to about 35%, but everyone else remains divided. the remain vote is split between the lib dems, the labour party and the greens. lots of voters have moved from labour to the lib dems, so under the first past the post electoral system the tories should gain some of the seats off labour. but politics is so volatile it does not mean that this will not change again over the course of the campaign. alex, you would describe yourself as a floating voter? definitely. to be honest, at the moment i am finding it hard to decide who to vote for because of a lack of trust in most parties. i understand that brexit is a massive issue but, for me, ithink understand that brexit is a massive issue but, for me, i think other things are being swept under the carpet. we are not talking about the
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nhs, the environmental crisis, those things should really be at the top of the agenda as far as i am concerned. arianna, how do you feel about how politicians are handling it? i did not get to vote in the referendum, i missed out on it by a couple of months, so some of the people in my year got to vote and others such as myself did not. i feel it does not represent a lot of the youth nowadays, lots of us were remainers andl the youth nowadays, lots of us were remainers and i feel like the amount of resources being wasted on it, the amount of time when, likewise to what she said, the amount of other issues like knife crime and academisation of schools and the impact on youth is being swept under the carpet and we are underrepresented in general, our views are not considered top of the priorities. if you look at the reflection of it in government, nobody is really having a youth voice in putting these issues at the top. would you want an election? i
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would not want one before the 31st. i think that puts too much risk of there being a no deal. i think the election should come afterwards and we are able to properly deal with these domestic issues. that is seen in the votes rather than people voting on whether they want to leave remain. colleen, how do you feel about the people, you, getting a say? i would like a say. i voted remain, but all my life i have been a labour voter, and the three years and increasingly more so recently, i feel i do not know what the tories wa nt feel i do not know what the tories want as a group together, and labour as well. at least with the liberal democrats i and getting very clear what they actually want. they want another referendum with hopefully
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not no deal, a deal. i am a bit fed up not no deal, a deal. i am a bit fed up of it all. i feel like everyone else is. tories are being thrown out of the conservative party, you have in party fighting, i don't know what to believe, i don't know want to trust, i just don't to believe, i don't know want to trust, ijust don't know any more. at least with the lib dems it is going back to the people if it goes the lib dems pull away and there can bea the lib dems pull away and there can be a clear way forward. but the lib dems, along with labour and the other opposition, do not want to go back to the people until no—deal brexit is sorted? why not put that back to the voters? it is quite disingenuous. in terms of the lib dems, they rejected the result of the referendum, which is democracy
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in action. their position is backing remain but in essence they are saying they will overturn the referendum. so to say it is democracy in action, i question that. i think the only real choice asa that. i think the only real choice as a general election, see what the people think. keith, we have not heard from you, what are you thinking? i voted to leave the eu, andi thinking? i voted to leave the eu, and i have lost count of the number of times i have been told i didn't know what the hell i was voting for. neither did i realise the full implications of the consequences, not being fully informed. so in the interests of the fully informed, perhaps the members of parliament in the studio can tell the nation what the studio can tell the nation what the mid—term and long—term objectives of the european union are? it is all very well saying we
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voted to remain, but remain part of what? the status quo? i certainly don't believe that. so what are the mid—term and long—term objectives of said union? unfortunately we are out of time to get an answer, but the debate continues and we will keep talking about it. thank you all. this programme has been told the owners of porn streaming site pornhub are profiting from revenge porn and failing to remove videos once reported. one woman who we are calling sophie says she felt violated after a video featuring her was viewed hundreds of thousands of times when it was uploaded without her consent. the more content on a site, the more viewers it draws, and in turn the more valuable it is to advertisers. now campaigners want that to stop and they're asking the government to include porn websites within the existing revenge porn laws. "sophie" told me how she found out videos of her were on the websites.
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i found out that these videos were uploaded to the internet via my sister. she was alerted because her partner at the time was watching porn and the video he was watching was of myself. that is how i found out. crikey. how did you react?” was hysterical. i broke down, i stayed in my room for at least three days. didn't leave the house. i actually smashed up my mobile phone that i was viewing the footage on and, yeah, my husband had to literally help me through it. 0bviously literally help me through it. obviously you felt sick?” literally help me through it. obviously you felt sick? i was traumatised, emotionally. i just didn't know how i would get through it. i don't think i have ever experienced those feelings before. i have been through a lot of traumatic times, but this, it did not compare
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to anything. and she then tried to go down official routes to get it taken down, go down official routes to get it ta ken down, because go down official routes to get it taken down, because the material is still there? i have gone down all avenues which, i must stress, is not easy. it is a very confusing process. if you are not computer literate, i would say the whole system needs to become much easier to do. i contacted the two sites they were uploaded to, the first site xxxhamster, come piedt and remove the video within 72 hours. pornhub replied around five days later with a reply of i had to contact later with a reply of i had to co nta ct a later with a reply of i had to contact a third party, i went on to their site and it was just like mumbojumbo, it came up with names and addresses of companies all over the place and the link i had to find
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was so small at the bottom of the page that i worked out i had to fill that form in, i sent it off and i never heard anything from them since. then this year i went to see ifa since. then this year i went to see if a thing were still on the sites, sadly we found two videos which were a lot harder to find because there isa a lot harder to find because there is a download button, people download these images and videos, but they then also re—upload them with a different title, making it much harderfor us to with a different title, making it much harder for us to find. it is a case of trawling to see if you can find yourface? case of trawling to see if you can find your face? basically you have to trawl through thousands of videos, that is traumatising in itself. pornhub said we strongly condemn nonconsensual content, including revenge porn, which is why we have the most progressive anti—revenge porn policy in the industry. content uploaded to pornhub which directly violates terms of service is removed as soon we are made aware. in 2015, to
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further ensure the safety of fans, we took a hard stance against pornhub, which we believe is a form of sexual assault, and introduced a submission form for the easy removal of nonconsensual content. kate, pornhub have told us that they did not get sophie's e—mail originally, they say they have mechanisms in place to get this material taken down. how easy you think it is? next to impossible. i started the campaign not your porn to help my friend who went through the same ordeal and had her icloud account hacked on to videos uploaded to pornhub. through multiple experiences we know this is not the case, i have had conversations with pornhub myself, the systems in place are pretty much full show, they do not work. we are seeing videos being reuploaded time and time again, sometimes with the victim's name on it, sometimes without. we have screenshots of e— mails
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it, sometimes without. we have screenshots of e—mails of people trying to make contact with them and sort this out in a really traumatic time for them. anyone can upload whatever they want, is that something you want to be looked at? i understand the concept, it is meant to be free porn for everyone, but the existing model is not fit for purpose. the fact that pornhub say they have these systems in place, they really don't, it does not work, the third—party systems they claim to have in place are not working, and they know that. they are also advertising unrelated search on the left—hand side, things like leaked or stolen six tapes, revenge porn, revenge and my leaked snapchat. going back to the statement, that is completely counter to what they say. perhaps that... they say in a statement we strongly condemn nonconsensual content including revenge porn.” think it is definitely a pr line
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that does not match up with the reality. sophie, what impact has this had on you and yourfamily? you have a husband and a teenage child? two daughters, teenage daughters. the impact has been absolutely great. the eldest daughter was bullied because, like we say, once the video has been downloaded and people recognised it, it went up on social media, so the eldest daughter had a lot of trouble in high school. how much has it been recognised? quite a bit. i had to leave myjob because i was recognised by a male work colleague, who told other people within thejob. work colleague, who told other people within the job. my husband has found it really, really hard. being a man, then take the mickey. he has had a lot of stick for it, but the support i have had from him has been amazing. as a family i find
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it really, really hard, because i have teenage daughters and as i have said in other interviews, that is where i feel really sorry for my daughters, it is something that they had to go through the future knowing that if one of the partners ever goes on a porn site, it could be seen goes on a porn site, it could be seen by them, which is him and devastating to them. what will you do now? i will keep fighting my fight to get all these videos down, ifi fight to get all these videos down, if i ever can. thank you, kate and sophie, forjoining us. some comments on the politics, mervyn on e—mail, i was a remaining, comments on the politics, mervyn on e—mail, iwas a remaining, nelly leaver, the ridiculous scenario in parliament is laughable, nobody is totally right, some are much more wrong than others. to me, the backstop has to go because it is clearly against our self evolving,
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unwritten constitution. anonymous says boris johnson unwritten constitution. anonymous says borisjohnson has transformed politics, the public are more engaged and they have made politicians accountable. pass says excellent debate including in people who did not have a voice in 2016. a former labour member says i was a lifelong member of the labour party, i will vote for boris as long as corbyn is leader of my party. dave sainsbury‘s has turned brexiter into a havoc wreaking exercise, with the world looking on a gas he has gone in all guns blazing with no level—headedness or self restraint. much more on the bbc news channel. bbc newsroom live is coming up next. hope you have a lovely weekend, goodbye. good morning. we have had a rather great start to the day, lots of clouds and outbreaks of rain for
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many. —— we have had a rather grey started the day. pretty grey skies and a shower in the distance of this weather watcher picture. patchy rain is moving southward across england wales, it will linger in seven areas to the afternoon. brighter skies developing behind, the risk of showers moving in on a brisk north—westerly wind. maximum temperature getting up to about 15 to 1819 degrees. the rain in the south will clear away tonight and there could be the shower, but it will be dry with clear spells for many. temperatures getting down to about nine or 10 celsius, chillier than that in the north—east of england. into the weekend, it will be dry with sunny spells for most of us. be dry with sunny spells for most of us. showers perhaps on saturday because eastern and south—eastern areas, but on the whole, dry with light winds and temperatures in the mage to high teens. goodbye.
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you're watching bbc newsroom live. it's 11.00, and these are the main stories this morning — robert mugabe, who led zimbabwe for nearly four decades after independence, has died aged 95. he secured black majority rule for his country in 1980, but his presidency was marred by economic collapse and human rights abuses. he was someone he was someone who was a man he was someone who was a man of his words. he would do the right thing, although in some things, he did the things not in a good way. borisjohnson is in aberdeenshire
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to announce an extra £51 million for scottish farmers. but it's been a bruising week for the prime minister and his brexit plans. do you accept that brexit might not happen?


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