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tv   Dateline London  BBC News  September 7, 2019 11:30am-12:01pm BST

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this is bbc news. the headlines at 12. mps, including conservatives expelled from the party, prepare legal action — in case borisjohnson refuses to request a brexit delay. a warning that four in ten uk businesses haven't done even a basic risk assessment of the consequences of a no—deal brexit. satellite images appear to show the iranian oil tanker, adrian darya one — previously impounded in gibraltar — is now off the syrian coast. ukraine prisoners are united with theirfamilies, as part of swap with russia. it's hoped it will ease tensions between the two neighbours. keeping children safe hello and welcome from gangs and violence — to dateline london. i'm carrie gracie. a call to open schools this week... in the evening and weekends. and click speaks to the team behind borisjohnson's promise virgin galactic‘s plans to put that he would do or die to deliver brexit by october sist has become do or die in a ditch. despite a full house of parliamentary defeats,
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nothing else changed in his message. the doing or dying is still defiantly scheduled for october 31st. so our question today: is the british prime minister digging himself a ditch in which to die? or demonstrating exactly the determination that will do in the end? my guests: italian writer and film maker annalisa piras. iain martin of the times. marc roche of le point newspaper. stephanie baker of bloomberg news. thanks for coming in. the palace of westminster has seen many extraordinary political dramas over the past thousand years. but the current one is right up there. in fact, the last time a british prime minister lost his first vote in the house of commons was 1783 and that's not the only thing that went wrong for boris johnson last week. so a quick recap. on monday, downing street warned tory mps that if theyjoined an attempt to push
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through a bill seeking to block a no—deal brexit they would be expelled from the parliamentary party and if the blocking attempt succeeded the prime minister would call for a general election. on tuesday 21 tories defied those threats and were promptly thrown out. on wednesday the house of commons passed the blocking bill and rejected the prime minister's attempt to call a snap election. on thursdayjohnson‘s own brother quit the government. and on friday the house of lords passed the bill to thwart a no—deal brexit and opposition parties vowed again to thwart a snap election. by this time the prime minister himself was at the other end of the country, tussling with another unbiddable beast. an aberdeen angus bull. and that is just the barest plot outline of a rich drama with a full cast of shakespearean characters played by themselves. so... let's hear from the guests. iain, was of the aberdeen angus moment the
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worst moment of the week what would you say happened here? there were so many worst moments of the way for borisjohnson. it many worst moments of the way for boris johnson. it is many worst moments of the way for borisjohnson. it is difficult to choose. i think, borisjohnson. it is difficult to choose. ithink, of borisjohnson. it is difficult to choose. i think, of it all, the worst moment... i think he had to do it, expelled those 21, was the vision of people like nicholas soames who has been a conservative mpfora soames who has been a conservative mp for a very long time, a member of the churchill family, and previous chancellors and ministers actually being confronted and thrown out of the conservative party. that is something which he may be prepared to do but borisjohnson will not have like doing that. he lives to be loved and if not loved, liked. as someone loved and if not loved, liked. as someone who spends a lot of time in the house of commons in the gallery this week, i have never seen... this
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is different from the country. it is a different question. i have never seen a different question. i have never seen a a different question. i have never seen a prime minister that the house of commons likes less. this house of commons really hates him. it is really visceral. and it will be a shock to him because that is not how he sees himself or... but he is now ina he sees himself or... but he is now in a situation that reminds me of churchill saying, when he was asked about the suez crisis, that he would have personally never have started the operation but once he had begun it he would have never dared stop. he has chosen his course of action. he has chosen his course of action. he has chosen his course of action. he has to dig in, try and fight back and appeal over the heads of parliament to pro—brexit voters of which there are still many. stephanie. you made a distinction between parliament and the country there. do you think it is a storm in a parliamentary take up for boris
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johnson or is this a cattle stampede in which he will be badly troubled? i thought his worst moments where two others. one was his brotherjoe johnson stepping down and announcing his resignation as an mp. i think the country as a whole had lost the plot with all these parliamentary intrigues. it is very hard for most people to follow. it is hard for me to follow and i follow the stuff. i think that story, your own brother deciding he cannot work with you, thatis deciding he cannot work with you, that is a story that everyone can fully understand. it is simple, straightforward. i think the second moment that was quite bad for him was when he was caught on television bbc being shouted down on the streets of yorkshire with someone saying, why are you in morley? why aren't you in brussels negotiating brexit? that cut through. the country can get that. they understand. it is a basic... the country is in crisis and he is campaigning in yorkshire. what is he
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doing? i do think though sort of moments are far more significant than parliamentary intrigue. when you a new election? is it before or after the 31st? i think people... the election will happen and people will vote based on their gut instincts and the ins and out we have seen this week will have been forgotten at that point. marc, your view. the week that was. the strategy was right which was to assert leadership. the country wants assert leadership. the country wants a strong leader after cameron and may. he had behind him 52% of the country minimum because the levers, but he has also some soft remain at who want to get over with brexit. and the purging, although it was terribly counter— productive in
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and the purging, although it was terribly counter—productive in terms of television, with the right thing to do in order to have a brexit full team to face brussels. the problem is why i think is the worst moment, when it was revealed that dominic cummings said... the chief of staff. yes, the chief of staff, he said we have no plans for brussels. we will never go there. it is a shambles. and russell said, where are the british? which speaks to stephanie's point about being on the streets of yorkshire rather than bristol. absolutely. the mistake he made was not to pursue. doing what he has to do to assertive leadership. but the other start negotiating with brussels. he says he is working hard, things are positive. it will use his powers of persuasion, he has aafew use his powers of persuasion, he has a a few weeks ago. let's not forget
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that borisjohnson is the one who actually invented fake news about europe. he was dismissed by the times for falsifying a quote. he lies about europe and in brussels i know it. the question is when the british public will realise. he has been saying about europe are false. there is no chance europe will be terrified by his no deal threat. this has been very clear. he keeps feeding lies to the british public so feeding lies to the british public so there should be a moment in which this should be exposed. and it is going to happen soon. michel barnier said very clearly that there is no new attempt to find a new deal. negotiations are paralysed. nothing is apparently happening.” negotiations are paralysed. nothing is apparently happening. i don't thatis is apparently happening. i don't that is entirely fair. he would say
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that is entirely fair. he would say that considering it is his role and his deal. there is a lot happening behind—the—scenes was not the particular thing to focus on early next week is what is happening with ireland. and ireland, the irish government had a very difficult cabinet meeting this week. very worried about no deal. there is a lot of diplomacy between london and dublin as the attempt to find a way through. the irish government are very nervous because they want to negotiate through brussels for obvious reasons. i'm not predicting there is going to be a settlement to there is going to be a settlement to the irish border question, but people are trying. whether or not it is real and genuine and dominic cummings and boris really want a deal, i do think barristers want a deal, i do think barristers want a deal, there is a glimmer there. michael gove met simon coakley this week. one of the most interesting things which happened this week which was underreported because i was so which was underreported because i was so much other craziness going on was so much other craziness going on was that boris moved on island by
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saying that he could accept an all irish economy on agriculture and food. it was a sort of story that may end up in the next couple of weeks if there is some sort of compromise based around the irish border, that might be the beginning of it. we will see. brussels will refuse it... they don't want to impart mad cow disease again. this idea of island negotiating with the brits, it is not reliable. but the logic ofjohnson's shift there was that they can't say this to the dup and they may end up... it may be that the british end up in a situation which is renaming checks in the irish sea as something else with the help of brussels. they
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might... i'm not saying they stephanie going to be a deal, i'm just challenging the idea that there is absolutely nothing going on. there is clearly something. is absolutely nothing going on. there is clearly somethinglj is absolutely nothing going on. there is clearly something. i agree. i thinkjohnson's proposal there is clearly something. i agree. i think johnson's proposal about this common agricultural policy has been met with lukewarm reception in brussels. they want control over that border and that proposal doesn't idea to that. which border? the border between northern ireland and ireland. that is the eu border and ireland. that is the eu border and by agreeing to that that means they do not have full control over that body because the... top still, it does threaten the single market. i think what is more important is that there have been proposals floated to brussels but they are backtracking on what has been agreed by theresa may on all, a number of issues including a level playing
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field. boris wants to go for a free trade deal rather than what is along the lines of what theresa may wanted. this is a step backwards rather than a step forwards and it is unclear that the eu would go for it. i also think he has not proposed any other alternatives. there are proposals that have been floated by an outside experts that could work. for instance, making it illegal to export goods that don't need those standards, northern ireland and eu standards, northern ireland and eu standards from those countries, making it illegal. but the proposal would require trust and there is very little trust right now. there is also very little trust on the british side. so the reason that the british side. so the reason that the british have not done as described and put a full fleshed out such a proposal, it is very difficult, is that david frost, the prime
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minister's keith negotiator. his view, and i think this is correct, is that if the british take that approach it will be rejected out of hand. the phrase that has been used by the british in brussels is, any solution which finds a way through and avoids a note deal has to be a joint endeavour. and that would take macron and merkel essentially cracking heads and saying, is there something that can be done on the irish border. because the alternative is something extremely messy which would be much better to avoid in ireland and is very bad for britain as well. but is the summer ground playback macron and merkel and the commission in the next few weeks? if there. .. and the commission in the next few weeks? if there... if and the commission in the next few weeks? if there. .. if there is a treated irish backs backstop, will it get through parliament? that is not clear. boris johnson indicated
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that he will take as robust a position with the spartans, the hardline brexiteers in the conservative party, as he took with the tories remain as who he effectively expelled. some confusion about that. but he does seem to be of the mind that if he gets a deal, which i think is his favoured option, he will attempt to bring it back to the commons and will say to mps. you keep saying you do anything to avoid a no deal, here is a deal. i don't believe there is any likelihood it will happen, frankly. i think there are a lot of issues. trust has been lost. the irish border is a real problem that cannot be solved with some kind of fudge about agriculture and beef products. there is so much more there. so
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there is no bridge building to be donein there is no bridge building to be done in your view, only ditch digging? i think so because the european union, the one indication they gave it is if you keep those red lines, and borisjohnson doesn't wa nt to red lines, and borisjohnson doesn't want to move the red lines, the only deal on the table is the withdrawal agreement up theresa may. so there is very little margin for negotiation unless borisjohnson drops some of the red lines. that is a position of labour because i think labour is moving towards saying, we could negotiate a deal that may be cases in the customs union. and then vote against it in their referendum, they said. we'll come back to that. the landscape is changing. there is a new commission. michel barnier is out. you will have a weakened angela merkel and a macron who is... there is an opportunity there. just
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looking at what is on earth is going to happen next week, the serious question which i miss from my list of events, what on earth did boris johnson say to the queen at dinner on friday night and what did she say to him? that must have been an extraordinary occasion about moral. she is very politically engaged and she listens a lot. there is actually footage of her talking to ronald reagan and you see she had very punchy views but the form will be that she will have with a raised eyebrow asked him how his week went and try and expand what on earth is going on. i would have paid good money to have heard his response. any takers? i think she will be quite happy because i believe, i might be wrong, but i... she would
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be quite at ease with borisjohnson. she is old. 93 years old. the reason she is pro—brexit. she is old. 93 years old. the reason she is pro-brexit. the reason she had so inclinations, you are absolutely right, the reason for thatis absolutely right, the reason for that is that if you go right back to the early 1970s, she has now been through how many prime minister. the first prime minister was winston churchill. it goes that far back. what a politicians issued her in the early 1970s are going into the european union and the eec would solve the country's problem is i wouldn't be a threat to sovereignty and voters would not be troubled by the cytology, someone with a very long memory, now is the result of what happened, which was deeper immersion in the european union which attends out to chevelle just didn't want. she turned out to be right, i think. i don't didn't want. she turned out to be right, ithink. i don't think didn't want. she turned out to be right, i think. i don't think we can
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really do what she thinks about brexit. i think she cares deeply about the international reputation of great britain. right now, from the outside, people are looking at this country going, what is going on? i this country going, what is going on? lam this country going, what is going on? i am getting messages from friends in the us saying, crazy week! what is happening? brits are known internationally as a sensible, clever and this is undermining that reputation which she deeply cares about. a friend of mine said, this is fantastically entertaining because we can get a third series of faulty towers. this is an expects —— this is the next best thing! what is it that they find so baffling? is it the purge that ian mentioned at the beginning? is it the fact that the commons hate him? is it the lying down on the benches apartment by the leader of the? is it the girls
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blouse... it is the antics in the house of commons which looks very entertaining to an american audience because it is so foreign. john burke out looks like the harsher schoolmaster. —— john out looks like the harsher schoolmaster. — — john bercow. out looks like the harsher schoolmaster. —— john bercow. most of the time in the us i think they are not paying attention. i was there for three weeks in the summer. it got very little coverage. this week it finally got coverage because borisjohnson has week it finally got coverage because boris johnson has been week it finally got coverage because borisjohnson has been compared to donald trump and because it was such a disastrous week and the antics in parliament were so comical. let's look at the antics or otherwise of the week ahead. we are going to get a vote again probably on monday on whether there will be a snap election and we're probably going to get the proroguing parliament somewhere between monday and thursday in the week ahead and i suppose everyone in politics in the uk needs to think about the electoral arithmetic. annalisa, take us electoral arithmetic. annalisa, take us out. what are the calculations they need to consider on voting for or against a snap election?”
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they need to consider on voting for or against a snap election? i think that the main difficulty is establishing a day because boris johnson is trying to get a vote before the 7th of october which is the date of the european council summitandi the date of the european council summit and i guess that his calculation is that if he can get it before he will still present himself to the voters as the guy... as a hero. if he goes after he will have been forced to... he can go to brussels and say, i have the majority of the british public behind me? his position will not allowing to do that and it is going to happen afterwards. nobody in the uk really can predict how the elections could go but one important fa ct elections could go but one important fact that has been quoted as one of the reasons for delaying, anticipating the vote, is the youth vote because there is1 million
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young people that didn't vote in 2016 that are supposed to be able to vote and apparently borisjohnson once an early date because they won't have the time to register in time. but that massive percentage of british voters could make a difference. we have seen it in scotland. we have seen it in scotland. we have seen it in scotland. but they are mobilising. what i think is his main strength is labour. jeremy corbyn hasn't really taken labour. jeremy corbyn hasn't really ta ken too labour. jeremy corbyn hasn't really taken too much profit from all the mess. the government, the opposition is divided between levers and reminders. 40% of labour voted to leave. as iain martin says, they are
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ina leave. as iain martin says, they are in a difficult position. absolutely. the referendum, i believe, will be the same result, even what they've done that one... absolutely. no, 8296 of the younger voters are event leaving and they will vote. they are mobilising. there is another problem with the referendum which is if it happens, and! with the referendum which is if it happens, and i don't think it will because it doesn't resolve anything, my side, the side that voted to leave, will go into the campaign saying we won't accept the result if we lose. and we will simply say, well, we've learned this from the first referendum. you didn't accept that result, we are not accepting this. make it best—of—3. what is most likely? we know more things now then we knew then. what is more likely that the conservative party
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is now faced with really an existential choice because if you look at the polling, there is a very strong brexit vote but it is divided. it is divided between the conservatives who are polling between 29 points this morning at 33 the other day and the brexit party, nigel farage, who is supposed to have gone away by now and he hasn't. he has 17% this morning. i'm writing you can get it back at those two numbers together. there are all sort of complexity is about when the election is. however, the tories are having to confront the choice, do they allow the brexit vote to be split or do they come to some sort of arrangement with nigel farage and the brexit party? that is what nigel farage deftly wants. lots of tories are reluctant to do that. because the tories have always had a fear of
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the tories have always had a fear of the populist right. it is a mainstream conservative party in britain, ever since the 1930s and pg wodehouse satirising... britain, ever since the 1930s and pg wodehouse satirising. .. it britain, ever since the 1930s and pg wodehouse satirising... it is always beenin wodehouse satirising... it is always been in the tory psychology, a fear of... i'm writing that for as she sat, but a fear of people who can be identified as extremist. so it is a big calculation they have to make. do they go divided are united? yes, do they do a deal with the brexit party? it is the same problem the other side have. the rebel alliance. i think this election is so hard to predict because the two party system is really broken down and there are all these photos with this shift of the tory party morphing into the brexit party, a hardcore brexit party. it is left millions of voters politically homeless. from across the spectrum, tory remain as, who wa nt the spectrum, tory remain as, who want to respect the referendum but
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don't want no deal, tory brexiteers who don't want no deal. tories of all stripes who believe in fiscal prudence, where do they go in this new setup? i think people are underestimating how many vote the liberal democrats will pick up. the conservative party is banking on a complete realignment to pick up labour lead voters in the north and thatis labour lead voters in the north and that is a real gamble when at the same time they have purged tory moderates and ruth davidson in scotland has stepped down and they are likely to lose anywhere between six to ten seats. we have only got a few seconds left. before we get to electoral politics, annalisa, surely the question for the rebel alliance this week is to answer the questions which will be many photos's mind.
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why do we need another extension of three months? we have been in this purgatory long enough. but what is the alternative? when everyone knows, even the government has admitted that no deal is a disaster and will damage the economy. you have to come back from the brink. just a comment on... stating one word. responsibility of the anti—no deal front will be key now. the eu will not give a further extension. they won't. we'll have to come back to that next week. thank you all for this week. thank you all for this week. that's it for dateline london for this week — we're back next week at the same time. goodbye.
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whilst hurricane dorian remains a powerful storm pushing near to eastern canada this side of the atlantic the weather is looking quite a bit quieter. in fact, here is the picture out there this morning in cornwall. we have got some blue skies, some patchy fair weather cloud around. there are a few showers to be seen as we head and settled weather. some sunshine on offer. that is because we have got high pressure building to buy in from the west with the wind is rotating around that high—pressure, they are actually coming in from a northerly direction. quite a cool, chilly feel to the weather across parts of eastern england and eastern scotland where you are exposed to that northerly wind. where you are exposed to that some heavy showers in east anglia down towards the south—east but for most of the places those showers should ease away into the afternoon and with the sunshine breaking the cloud up nicely it will feel reasonably present. 17 to 20 degrees for most of us. just a little cooler
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around that eastern coast. the ashes are set to continue today at old trafford. it looks like we are not going to seek much rain. the sunny spell. temperatures of 70 degrees. moving on into this evening and overnight, largely clear, dry weather. temperatures will be falling quite quickly. a touch of frost across parts of eastern scotland, north—east england. even further south we had down into single figures. a fresh start to your sunday morning. if you are planning on running the great north run tomorrow, it is looking like a chilly start but decent conditions for running. not too hot. 15 degrees. a light wind. we will keep that in trying tomorrow across england and wales. eastern scotland also holding on sunshine. across scotla nd also holding on sunshine. across scotland and northern ireland the crowd were building from the west and there could be patchy rain in the afternoon. temperatures of 15 to 18 degrees, a touchdown on today but we will do the cool breeze from the east coast. and then this weather
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front east coast. and then this weather fro nt m oves east coast. and then this weather front moves in from the west heading slowly eastwards as we move into monday. it may stall and will bring a soggy monday. it may stall and will bring a soggy start to the new working week for many and underneath the cloud it won't feel particularly one. only 1a to 16 cloud it won't feel particularly one. only 16 to 16 degrees. an autumnal feel to monday but then temperatures should recover. dry weather, perhaps breezy and damp on wednesday, but otherwise not a bad 00:29:26,332 --> 4294966103:13:29,430 week ahead. goodbye for now.
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