tv Victoria Derbyshire BBC News January 8, 2020 10:00am-11:01am GMT
hello, it's wednesday 8th january, it's 10 o'clock, i'm victoria derbyshire, and we're live from new broadcasting house. ukranian officials say three britons were on board a passenger plane — carrying more than 170 people — which crashed in iran with no survivors. questions are now being posed as to, you know, let's have a proper look at the security record. when we get access to the black box obviously people will want to know what took place on board. we've heard the ukrainian president himself come out and say that he wants people not to speculate and to allow the investigation to take place. meanwhile more than two dozen missiles have been fired by iran on two military air bases housing us soldiers in iraq in retaliation for the us killing of iran's to military leader. it's not known yet whether there are any casualties.
the key message is that we need to de—escalate. it is in no side's interests to see war, or to see these events continue in the middle east. all parties need to de—escalate. that's been a very clear message from the prime minister and the foreign secretary, and that is what we urge again this morning. we'll talk to our security correspondent frank gardner. a london church which claims to help vulnerable young black people from difficult backgrounds will be scrutinised in parliament today after allegations that it's a "cult" and a "criminal enterprise". we'll speak to this reverend from the church, and this labour politician who says the church has defrauded young people out of thousands of pounds. and this 55—year—old grandma faced a five—year jail sentence for growing cannabis which she used to treat her symptoms of ms. the case was dramatically dropped in court this week.
will she begin to grow the plant again? hi, welcome to the programme. we're live until 11.00 this morning. we have a very busy programme today. we're also talking today to this man — labour mp clive lewis — who wants to be the next leader of the labour party, and therefore britain's next pm. and we're talking about harry and meghan after speculation that they may be considering moving to canada for a significant part of the year. what do you think about that? use the hashtag #victorialive. email email@example.com. text 61124. first, annita mcveigh has the news. iran has launched a ballistic missile attack on air bases used by us—led forces in iraq, in retaliation for the killing of the iranian commander, qasem soleimani.
pictures thought to show the moment of the strike and the launch of the missiles have been shown on local tv. iran claims 80 people had been killed but there have been no reports of casualties from other sources and president trump has tweeted that "all is well". iran's supreme leader, ayatollah khamenei, described the action as a "slap on the face" for the us, and he said american troops should leave the region. a ukrainian passenger plane carrying more than 170 people has crashed shortly after taking off from the iranian capital, tehran. ukraine's president, volodymyr zelensky, says all those on board are believed to have be killed. three britons are believed to be amongst the dead. the country's embassy in iran has said the plane was brought down by engine failure, and the crash was not related to terrorism. the number of people killed in cases of murder and manslaughter in the uk fell in 2019 for the first time in four years.
in total, 650 people were killed last year — down from the 774 homicides in 2018. the situation was different in london, which saw its third annual rise in a row. the football association is to review the sale of fa cup broadcast rights related to matches available to watch on a gambling website. last weekend, 23 third—round matches were available to view on bet365, but to watch them, fans had to place a bet or open an account with a deposit. more than 400 schools in england are stuck in a cycle of poor performance and need more help to improve, according to the schools regulator. a new report from 0fsted says more than 200,000 children are affected. it says they're generally in deprived areas, where teacher retention and disruption to pupils are big issues. social media influencer molly mae hague has become the latest in a string of reality stars to have a complaint upheld against her by
the advertising standards authority. the complaint claimed that a post on her instagram account about an outfit from online retailer pretty little thing was not identifiable as an advert. prince charles has sent a message of support to people in australia, who've spent months dealing with devastating wildfires across the country. at least 25 people and millions of animals have died since the blazes broke out in september. in his message, prince charles said the scale of loss was beyond belief. the country is braced for more fires, with temperatures set to rise again later this week. and sir eltonjohn has pledged one million dollars to the fundraising effort to tackle the australian bushfires. the singer, who was performing in sydney, told the audience they should be in "awe" of the work the firefighters are doing and urged people in the crowd to come together and help. that's a summary of our main story
is so far today. back to victoria. ukraine says three british nationals were on a ukrainian boeing 737 that crashed in iran. the footage from the immediate aftermath we're about to show contains upsetting images. more than 170 people were on board when the flight came down just after taking off from an airport in tehran. iran's red crescent says there is no chance of finding any survivors. ukraine says engine failure caused the crash and there was no link to terrorism. in a moment we'll speak to our correspondent at kiev airport, where the plane was heading to. meanwhile more than two dozen rockets have been fired by iran on two airbases housing us soldiers in iraq. this footage of the attack was shown on iranian state tv. iran says it's in retaliation for the killing — by the us — of the iranian commander, qasem soleimani.
explosion. this video is believed to be from inside al asad airbase which is to the west of baghdad and appears to show missiles landing. you can hear shouts of "be careful and get inside". iranian state television is claiming that 80 people were killed, but the us hasn't confirmed any casualties so far. reacting to the strikes president donald trump tweeted that "all is well". he wrote: "assessment of casualties and damages taking place now. so far, so good!". he is expected to make a statement later. iran's supreme leader has described the action as a "slap on the face" for the us, and he said american troops should leave the region. and iran's foreign minister tweeted: "we do not seek escalation or war, but will defend ourselves against any aggression". 0ur security correspondent frank gardner is here. is this the severe revenge iran
promised at the weekend? no, i don't think it is. i think this may well be the end of the ovate iranians response, providing america doesn't retaliate again. there are a whole host, an array of options, that iran could choose covertly to retaliate in its own time over the next few weeks and months, and the hardliners in iran will still be baying for blood. it's quite provocative of president trump to say all is well. i know that is for domestic consumption, he is reassuring people back home, but when iranians see that and see that american blood a p pa re ntly that and see that american blood apparently has not been spilt, to the hardliners that is provocative. it will make them think they may be needed to do more. you have to remember, the big picture here is that iran wants the us out of the region, they want to expel american forces from iraq and syria so they have a clean sweep, and iranians sphere of influence all the way from
the afghan border to the mediterranean without any awkward pockets of american troops and bases in between. they want to bring iraq com pletely in between. they want to bring iraq completely under their sphere, it's largely in their sphere of influence but they would like it even more so. it's part of their strategic dominance of the region through a number of proxies, such as hezbollah, to have that in iraq, there alliance with the president in syria. they shore up the northern crescent and pushed back saudi influence. it is not entirely a religious thing, it is an iranian political thing to export the revolution as they see it. so when the iranian foreign minister says we do not seek escalation or war... that sounds like he is drawing a line under it but you say not. he speaks for the elected government and is the front of house. you have two irans.
and is the front of house. you have two ira ns. there and is the front of house. you have two irans. there is the iran you deal with on a daily basis and then the deep state, of which qasem soleimani was... when you say deep state, please explain that. sorry, thatis state, please explain that. sorry, that is the whole security intelligence and judicial apparatus, which is a law unto itself. there are hardliners in there who distrust everything the outside world, particularly west, does. they don't wa nt particularly west, does. they don't want iran to come out of isolation, some of them. they want to carry on attacking us influence in the region until america leaves altogether. the western allies don't want that to happen. they want america to stay, at least for the time being. the governments want them to stay as a guarantor against any more iranians expansion. it is extraordinary that iran isa expansion. it is extraordinary that iran is a country that is hobbled by us sanctions and the economy is in dire straits, unemployment is up, inflation is up, oil exports are
down, and yet iran has achieved strategic supremacy in the middle east despite all of that through the very cunning use of these proxies that qasem soleimani was instrumental in securing the advantage of a. people here watching you right now analyse this situation, they will want to know how aligned they should be. not particularly. really? i don't think so. particularly. really? i don't think so. all of these hashtags for a world war iii, that is a load of nonsense. it only becomes dangerous if russia and china started to get involved. i had a conversation with the iranian embassy a couple of days ago andi the iranian embassy a couple of days ago and i said, so, can you reassure me there will not be any kind of retaliation in this country? the person i spoke to laughed and said, we are not idiots, of course not! why would we do that? but britain has troops in iraq. it does, and iraq was already a war zone. they we re iraq was already a war zone. they were fighting islamic state, isis. i
day out of harms way? no, they have gone to a theatre of war. that is what soldiers do. they are in chaim's way. is it particularly dangerous weather now? extra precautions will have to be taken because there is a number of very angry iranians backed militias in iraq looking to target western forces and statements have come out saying we will target the americans and their allies and have want iraqis to stay away from them. you saw that bit of footage there, you saw that bit of footage there, you saw them shouting we are under attack, take cover. yeah, so, you know, iraqis who are colocated with americans are going to be in the firing line, as well. there has been this horrific plane crash in tehran, 178 people on board. we are about to speak to our correspondent at kiev airport, where the plane was heading. many people, understandably i suppose, have questioned whether the two might be related. what do
you say? i don't think they are. ukrainian government is saying there is no suggestion of terrorism. no reason to doubt that. it would just... who would benefit from that? who on earth would be... you know, initially there were false rumours it has been shut down by anti—aircraft fire by mistake. there is nothing to say any of this is anything other than a tragic accident resulting from engine failure. if that changes, that is a whole new ball game. that would be terrorism. but i don't think so, it is an accident. 0ur reporter zhanna bezpiatchuk — is at kiev airport, where the plane was heading to. what can you tell us about the nationalities of those who have died? as far as we know the majority of people who are nationals of two countries. iran and canada. some iranians, they have dual
citizenship. they could have left the country as a iranians citizen and entered canada as canadian citizens. the crew are all ukrainians, nine members. "people from afghanistan, germany and three nationals. and what more do we know at this early stage about what caused this crash? early morning, we got the official statement from the ukrainian embassy in iran that claimed that it was a terrorist attack. ballistic missiles were excluded as possibility. but later on, representatives of the airline company, as well as the ukrainian
authorities, they in fact changed their rhetoric and stressed that it is very important to wait until the full—fledged investigation takes place, which will include people from ukraine, iran and representatives for the airline company and also the company that produced the aircraft. and only at that time it will be possible to say what were the reasons. the airline company said very clearly, the head, said he doesn't want people to comment on reasons for the engine to go while the aircraft was taking off, it happened within a few minutes after it took off. it's also very important to emphasise that representatives of the airline company said the aircraft was in
full service and technically sound. that is very important. it was checked up fully on january six. they see no reasons, no conditions for technical failure they see no reasons, no conditions for technicalfailure of they see no reasons, no conditions for technical failure of the engine or other parts of the aircraft, although for the moment it is accepted, it is confirmed that it was an engine problem. thank you very much. thank you for your time, reporting live from kiev airport. and thank you, frank, our security correspondent. and if you want to find out the latest developments on this story head to the bbc news live page. bbc.co.uk/news the prime minister of iraq has called on all sides to practice self restraint, here to international agreement and respect the iraq estate. that's just in from iraq's prime minister.
today mps will be hearing evidence of fraud, exploitation and abuse at a london church. comparing it to the rotherham scandal, labour mp steve reed will later say that politicians, police and children's services have failed to safeguard young vulnerable children from what he describes as "a cult and criminal enterprise which has masqueraded as a church to exploit young black people from difficult backgrounds". the church has been the centre of media attention for years, appearing on mtv, bbc 3 and this programme, as they claimed they were helping former gang members escape a life of crime, making headlines as worshippers handed in drugs and knives at the altar. but last year, the bbc‘s panorama programme uncovered serious allegations of financial misconduct and of financially exploiting young people from its congregation. spac nation has been lauded as a beacon of hope for many in the black community and a way
to tackle gang crime. but bbc panorama has discovered there are financial irregularities and evidence that some of its younger members may have been exploited financially. ifeel, like, heartbroken because i'm thinking this is supposed to be, like, a family and most importantly it's god's people. gracie joined the church in 2017 and said she was duped into taking part in a benefit fraud scam. she's been left owing close to £2,000 to the department for work and pensions. i can't afford it, obviously, but i'm doing, like, the best i can. i'm paying it bit by bit. my parents, obviously, they're not rich or anything but they've obviously said, "listen, you've made a mistake, we're going to help you out." and, um... sorry. ah! are you all right, gracie? sorry. can ijust take a minute? thanks.
back in 2018 noel phillips spoke to spac nation's head pastor, tobi adegboyega — and put to him the allegation that some people regard the church as a "cult". plastic toby has 14 x gang members living with him. we need shelter. not shelter from people chasing, the mind is the factory for everything. i've got to do that. i stumbled into this. it's not a plan, not something isaid, this. it's not a plan, not something i said, look, this. it's not a plan, not something isaid, look, we're this. it's not a plan, not something i said, look, we're going to have. i deal with cases and ask myself, where do i want it to go? here in the studio we have labour's steve reed, mp for croydon north who says spac nation is a "cult" which has exploited young people and has defrauded them out of thousands of pounds and dapo adegboyega, is a reverend at spac nation and chairs its board — he's the brother of the church's leader. he denies steve reed's allegations.
welcome both of you, thank you for coming on the programme. steve reed, what do you think of this church?” think it is a cult that is exploiting young people criminally to get money, to extract money out of them, leaving potentially hundreds of them massively in debt, separated from their families. if you talk to experts in cults they will tell you this is classic cult behaviour. what is your evidence? what happened was i became aware of some quite aggressive behaviour by young people associated with this organisation in croydon and i tweeted out a concern. i was then bombarded by e—mail and phone by young people, family members, giving mea young people, family members, giving me a very young people, family members, giving me a very serious young people, family members, giving me a very serious allegations about what was going on. it took me two days to film them all back but from that i got a picture of how they operate and what they do is they operate and what they do is they operate right across london, they
run operate right across london, they ru n eve nts operate right across london, they run events where they are for free food or a freak bowling to young people. they have their organisation leaders affect them, identify the most susceptible ones then befriend them. some i moved into properties run by leaders from the organisation, where they are brainwashed, then they are coerced into making fraudulent applications or loans, setting up fake businesses that apply for fraudulent business loa ns. that apply for fraudulent business loans. all of that money is given to the organisation. the young people are separated from their family, separated from their friends, left massively in debt. we have had young people who have been coerced into selling blood with pasta is from this organisation claiming to be their parents. young people, students, who have given their entire student loans to this organisation. young people that have been made to work for fake companies set up by the organisation that are merely extorting money from customers, but provided no services. it looks like it is operating at
scale, potentially involving thousands of young people right across london. which is why you compare it to the scandal in rotherham, which involved 1400 children, according to the report, being abused. the key link is in rotherham is vulnerable young people we re rotherham is vulnerable young people were not listened to because they we re were not listened to because they were from damaged backgrounds and we have the same in london. reverence dapo, how do you respond? a cult and criminal enterprise masquerading as a church? thank you for having us on this broadcasting. i will take very seriously the allegations that our honourable gentlemen has made, but unfortunately, he has spoken to people who he doesn't even know whether they were part of this organisation in the first place. i said, are you sure the people came to you, they were not members? he said there was no way he could have checked that. anyone could have come to steve. they didn'tjust go to
him, though, they also went to bbc panorama, the huffington post. we have examples, we have shown one example. gracie was 21, she joined in 2017, told panorama she was encouraged to apply for universal credit after pastor, just charity, noticed she stopped giving money to the church. someone filled out an online application form on her behalf and when she left the appointment someone had changed her details to show she had had two children, making her eligible for a £1200 payment. there is the young woman who had kidney cancer. she discovered a £5,000 for year loan had been taken out in her name without her knowledge. —— four year loan. the challenge is this. i do not want to discount the stories of anyone on here. we take allegations seriously. we have a complaints procedure which is very robust. sorry, would you just like to deal with others specific examples? that
is what i'm coming to. for instance, someone came said this. we have not been contacted as an organisation. so? what bbc panorama did was speak to individual people, link their business to the church. so these people are making it up about spac nation because i and i am not saying that. what are you saying? they have only listened to one side and concluded by listening to one side. the people you talk about, what was the relationship before they came into change with individuals? they could have had dealings together initially, but now making a frantic attempt to link individual persons businesses to the church because they are a member of the church and so they are a member of the church and so their business is doing this. it is out of order. steve is not even sure if the people who came to him and went to bbc panorama or if they are members of the church. he said
he would not discount allegations made by vulnerable young people and you just have discounted them all. 0ne you just have discounted them all. one of the pastors running what they call trap houses, where they went and move on vulnerable young people, one running 14 young women has 27 serious cases of fraud against her and yet she was allowed to run a property with dozens of vulnerable young women. i have met pastors from this organisation who said fill out application forms, put them in front of the vulnerable people who they have brainwashed and make them sign it. it benefits their leaders. presumably. i have seen accounts of fa ke presumably. i have seen accounts of fake companies set up, quickly shut down, all associated with spac nation. i have seen shell companies set up with none of the costs you would associate with trading with shops or a website. thousands of
pounds quickly flow in and out again. the directors and trustees of these companies are closely associated with the leadership of spac nation. it is a massive fraud organisation. the problem is this honourable gentlemen has made these allegations but has not contacted the organisation to ask what is happening. are you a massive fraud organisation? absolutely not. everything is transmitted live on virtually. .. everything is transmitted live on virtually... while the metropolitan police and charity investigating you chris and we are not under investigation. this is the problem out the honourable gentleman has sent tweets around the time of election. this is what the charity commission tell us. the issues raised relating to spac nation in recent weeks are highly concerning. the opening of this enquiry on the charities commission is an important step allowing us to examine these contents further and establish the
fa cts . contents further and establish the facts. metropolitan police say they are aware of allegations pertaining to potential fraud and are aware of allegations pertaining to potentialfraud and other allegations associated with individuals associated with spac nation. 0fficers individuals associated with spac nation. officers are reviewing the allegations to see whether any. we are not aware of any investigation. we have been in contact with the charity commission for months. there are two investigations, whether you deny it or not. as far as investigation, if that is what you are saying, because the charity commission have said an enquiry is not finding of wrongdoing. they need to check this and this. the honourable gentleman here, for instance. you think it is a tick box exercise. no, they need to do their bit. just the same as our politician friend is doing. he started his tweets around election time,
contacted criminal gangs, faceless individuals on the internets. what is the significance of it being around election time? it is because it is obvious that he did this because of the croydon election. we had someone who is a member of the organisation. he frantically connected the organisation to the other party. to the conservative party? yes. he did that and many of his tweets he sent at times, alleging child rape, he removed some of them, many of them. did you? know, serious allegations of sexual exploitation in trap houses alleging the rate of child aged three —— rape ofa the rate of child aged three —— rape of a child aged three. you passed that on, obviously. there is so much evidence against this organisation are now that the police and the safeguarding authorities across london need to act right now to protect potentially hundreds of young people. what does that mean in
practical terms? young people. what does that mean in practicalterms? getting into young people. what does that mean in practical terms? getting into trap houses and making sure that no young people are being abused or exploited. despite allegations this organisation still stands outside school gates and youth centres trying to recruit vulnerable young people. can you give us the evidence? people running it told me spac nation have been outside recruiting what young people. i've spoken to dozens of young people who are massively in debt, lost their student loans, all to this organisation, they have told me there is coercion, brainwashing, sexual abuse. we need to stop this organisation going anywhere yet vulnerable young people today. if this was affluent white kids, whether the authorities wouldn't have already intervened. because it is poor black kids, i don't think it has the attention it deserves. that is incorrect because for years and decades, the last... 2019 was the bloodiest year. we have never heard your voice on knife crime in
croydon. would you open up your trap houses to lease and social services? the organisation does not run any trap house. that is the problem. the organisation does not run any trap house. that is the problemm was on your website until you took them off when the allegations were made. will you open up any of your property is? no, as an organisation we don't run any houses. the bbc has come to the church, they have been given unfettered access. speak to anybody. we have thousands of people in the church stop steve has spoken to 12 people, not bothered to speak to 12 people, not bothered to speak to thousands of people in the church. the police are going to close you down because it is a criminaland a close you down because it is a criminal and a serious threat.“ police found anything, fine. the organisation is not involved in anything. if individuals have been found to have been involved in anything, we don't take it lightly. we will take strict measures. meaning what? we will give police the free hand to do what they need
to do. as an organisation i must tell you what we stand for is clear. in 2019 in london we had 64 knives -- 764 in 2019 in london we had 64 knives —— 764 knives voluntary duct at the altar. family lives has he impacted? a 16—year—old girl in this organisation told me she was coached to tell visitors and investors that she had been in a gang and got out by this organisation. she also told me she is speaking to the police, right now i hope. she also told me that in these trap houses everyone was having sex with everyone else, it was disgusting, she said. she complained to pastor, was taken to see one of the senior leaders of the organisation who told her, if you report this to the police, it will rebound on you. i have friends in high places. he has friends in high places. she said she didn't go to the police because he has powerful friends. we arejust the police because he has powerful friends. we are just ants. that is how they feel, that is the position you put young people in. you are exploiting them mercilessly and you need to stop.
you are playing politics with peoples lives. why didn't your voice call out on the electoral period has macro that is when you started contacting criminal gangs. they are working across at least a dozen borrowers and have been to birmingham and leicester as well as far as we know. they are targeting vulnerable kids. they are giving you a voice because we have not had your voice on the knife crime epidemic in croydon. that has been a terrible area own knife crime, people are dying. don't talk to me about 12 people, we are taking knives from 64 people, we are taking knives from 64 people, and there blood would have been shed on the streets of london. you are welcome to come on the board, if there are issues...”
you are welcome to come on the board, if there are issues... i am not going to go over these serious allegations with the police. i had a letter from this gentleman asking him -- letter from this gentleman asking him —— might need to send him the names and addresses of the young victims that have spoken out. sending the names and contact details of victims of the organisation alleged to have seriously abuse them is morally wrong and i'm not going to do that but i want the police to fully investigate and to stop your activities. labour's steve reed, and reverend dapo from spac nation, thank you both very much. we will follow this and see what the outcome of the metropolitan police investigation and the charities commission investigation are. coming up in a moment... we speak to lezley and mark gibson — who were facing jail for growing their own cannabis to treat lezley‘s ms symptoms. and could meghan and harry be seriously considering spending more time in canada?
lezley gibson has lived with ms for over 30 years. she says that cannabis helps manage her symptoms and she has been growing and using the drug at home since the ‘90s. but a year ago the police raided her home and arrested her, along with her husband mark, after they found ten cannabis plants and three bars of cannabis chocolate. the pair faced up to five years in prison, an unlimited fine — or both if convicted. they got all the way to crown court but then the case was dropped after the cps decided it was not in the public interest to prosecute them. now the couple are spending more than £700 a month on a private cannabis prescription for lezley‘s ms. let's talk to lezley and mark gibson, in their first tv interview. let me ask you first of all for your reaction to the fact that prosecutors in court this week
dropped the case against you both. absolutely over the moon. it couldn't have gone any better, i suppose. the whole thing was horrific. i was very pleased we got a decent result in the end and hopefully things are going to change. mark, tell us what it was like when your house was raided, presumably after some kind of tip—off. presumably after some kind of tip-off. i had had a series operation on my leg and i had wandered off to get some cooking ingredients to cook for my granddaughter. then i saw some police officers approaching my property and i thought they are coming to visit us, and the exercise a warrant to search the house for cannabis chocolate bars which i promptly gave them and help them with their inquiries. what was that like, lezley? horrible. my grand daughter was there. they have tortured me and my daughter and now they are doing this to my grandchildren. this is 30 years
worth of campaigning and trying to get the law is changed and it is not working. 30 years is a long time to be fighting for medicine. why were the charges dropped and the case thrown out? the cps says since charges were authorised we understand one of the defendants has been lawfully prescribed a cannabis derived medications from an accredited doctor. we have therefore concluded it is not any public interest to continue public prosecution against either defendant so we offered no evidence. lezley had been getting a spray called sativax but it was removed on cost by the primary care trust in cumbria. that left her no option but to grow our own cannabis to replace the modification —— medication that was unlawfully ta ken the modification —— medication that was unlawfully taken away from us. the and you have been paying £700 a
month for a private prescription. £700 a month. i'm on benefits, i haven't got that kind of money. it seems like some kind of blackmail to wa nt to seems like some kind of blackmail to want to be well. i can do this my self for less than £20 an ounce. the staff from the doctors is £700 an ounce. i'm on benefits. i haven't got that kind of money. they need to sort these lows out quickly. people are suffering. when i have not got my medicine i am really ill. will you consider growing cannabis again instead of paying £700 a month for our private prescription? things change in four weeks, that's how long the prescription loss. i do contract work as it comes in. we will have to see what happens before the next prescription payment is due. it is very difficult. would you consider it, knowing you could be breaking the law and being prosecuted? somebody else would
possibly have to grow the cannabis, i'm not prepared to break the law at this time although the law obviously is in need of urgent repeal, people need to be able to get access to urgent cannabis —based medication as soon as possible. jason has tweeted to say he applauds the ms sufferer who has acted intelligently and responsibly and that cannabis medications are being denied by the nhs, when they have been proven to be the optimal treatment for various health conditions. how do you respond to that? in most countries of the world cannabis is now used as a medicine. it is not the drug this country thinks it is. it is a medicine. it is a herb that grows like rosemary or lavender. there is no need for this vicious law to be enforced on people. they need to ta ke enforced on people. they need to take the law apart and start again.
meaning what, legalise or decriminalise cannabis? the law needs to be taken apart and rebuild. it is not working. it is non—functioning. cannabis is now recognised as a medicine all over the country. they can expunge cannabis convictions. in this country they are still taking people like me to court. we need to reassess the whole thing. cannabis was a schedule one class a drug until 2018 which meant that it had no medicinal value, and that has changed his schedule to which means that it has medicinal value and it is prescribed a bull so the law is not fit for purpose. —— it is able to be prescribed. let's get more on the plane crash in iran in which 170 people have died including three from the uk. the iranian red crescent says there
is no chance of finding any survivors. ukraine sez engine failure caused the crash and there was no link to terrorism. i'm joined now by our transport correspondent tom burridge. it is early stages so anything we say is speculation. but data online about the flight shows that the plane took off from tehran airport in the early hours of the morning. tehran airport is at 3500 feet. it climbed to about 8000 feet within a matter of minutes. according to experts that climb was pretty normal as you would expect from an aircraft at take—off and suddenly, a few minutes into the flight the data disappeared. that is unusual. that suggests some type of catastrophic incident on board the plane. what caused that incident, we have no clues at this stage. there was a report earlier suggesting it could
be engine failure. anyone seen with any certainty that at this stage that it was engine failure, is probably going too far. i've spoken to experts that basically say that an engine failure would normally not cause this type of incident. engine failures do happen and these boeing 737 800 aircraft are designed to keep going. they could have pulled the plane round all landed at another nearby airport. and the pilot says that every six months he is trained to deal with engine failure. it would have to be a very major engine failure cutting hydraulic wires of the plane to cause this type of catastrophic incident. clearly more investigations need to be done. the iranians will lead on this because thatis iranians will lead on this because that is a protocol. the ukrainians will play a vital role because it was our ukrainian airlines flight that went down and because of the diplomacy in the region. normally the americans because it is boeing,
they other manufacturers, normally they other manufacturers, normally the us equivalent of the air accidents investigation branch would ta ke accidents investigation branch would take a massive role in this pot there are suggestions that the iranians will not allow that to happen so the ukrainians as american allies will have any ribbing more important role in ensuring that the investigation goes off as normal —— will have an even more important role. before 11 we speak to the labour leadership hopeful clive lewis as he prepares to explain to his fellow mps and to us why he thinks can bring unity to the party. and we'll have more on rumours that prince harry and meghan could be over the next few weeks we're going to talk to all the candidates who want to be the next leader of the labour party and britain's next prime minister, culminating in a deabte featuring all of them with you in the audience. first up is norwich south mp
clive lewis — only been an mp since 2015, a member of labour's top team for much of mr corbyn's time in charge. and has held this position and that position — i should have said shadow defence secretary, minister for sustainable economics. he got married two years ago and has spent time in the territorial army, including a three month tour of afghanistan. welcome to the programme. a survey reported by the daily telegraph suggests that only 9% of labour voters, labour voters, know suggests that only 9% of labour voters, labourvoters, know who suggests that only 9% of labour voters, labour voters, know who you are. so for the 91% who don't, who are. so for the 91% who don't, who are you? i am a human being that has beenin are you? i am a human being that has been in the labour party most of my life. a family man. i live in the city of norwich. and someone who wa nts to city of norwich. and someone who wants to lead this party, he wants to win at the next general election, not 10—15 years. and i understand
that if we want to that direction we must transform fundamentally you we are, to win. i'm going to ask more about you, i want to know what makes you tick. your experiences in childhood, the way you are brought up, that have shaped you and made you labour. my dad is from grenada, a british colony in the caribbean and my mum's side of the family are from england. all members of my family play a part but my grandad and my dad played a particular part. they were both trade unions. my grandad was also a veteran in the second world war. what he taught me was, he was a passionate socialist, but he was also very proud of the pa rt but he was also very proud of the part he played in fighting fascism in the second world war. what that taught me was that, that explained
to him why he felt that he could embrace my dad and his culture, because he understood that, actually, there was some difference but there was much that united us. what matter you're talking on your mum ‘s site. —— what matter you're talking on your mum 's site. -- you're talking about your grandad or your mum's site. yes, his experiences made me look at the army from a left—wing perspective, and i used to go back with him to normandy when he went back each year. it was that camaraderie and sense of belonging which really had an effect on me, and which encouraged me to then go and which encouraged me to then go and do something myself in the armed forces, and some people frowned at that, like, how can you be a socialist and be in the army but if you think about it, my grandad was very clear. he was very proud to be
british. but he also understood as a socialist that he wanted the best for everybody in this country. and that rubbed off on me. that had a big influence on me and my life and what i did in life. as someone who served in afghanistan for a number of months, as a former shadow defence secretary, how you if you we re defence secretary, how you if you were to become labour leader would deal with this escalating crisis in the middle east? first of all, you wa nt to the middle east? first of all, you want to de—escalate it. the middle east? first of all, you want to de-escalate it. how? just roll back a second. this has been started by donald trump and his administration which has assassinated a member of another government. if you were in the oval 0ffice, government. if you were in the oval office, you are the next british prime minister, what do you say to him? as you are like, what you have done has escalated regional tensions which were already tense and has made the likelihood of world war
more likely, you need to pull back stop he said this iranian general was about to commit an attack which could threaten western lives. this is an illegal act. assassination is illegal under the united states constitution and has been since the 19805. constitution and has been since the 1980s. look, if we as part of the security council, as part of the western powers international law, if you expect people to abide by the rule of international law, you must abide by it yourself otherwise it becomes the wild west. what i would say to him is abide by the rules that we have written. too late, he has already broken them. so we as european counterparts must use all the influence we have to be able to de—escalate this and bring about a diplomatic resolution. would you describe soleimani as a terrorist? he isa describe soleimani as a terrorist? he is a member of the iranian government. i will not get into
whether he is part of the special forces. there are things as special forces. there are things as special forces they do which we wouldn't like but the reality is, there are iraqis demonstrating in iraq. they have had 20 years of death and destruction in that country. they are pleading with their government, america, iran, please, no more war. when you look at what has happened toa when you look at what has happened to a rock, the people's whose lives have been destroyed, i think it is about people, and most of the people there do not want another war, another escalation. we have to understand that and try to stop that. staying in this area, will talk about other areas, in 2016 as shadow defence secretary you said, i'm sceptical about trident renewal. trident is our nuclear defence system, would you renew it?“ trident is our nuclear defence system, would you renew it? it has already been renewed. do you agree with that? i have felt for a long
time that nuclear capability is something which, when you think about it, the ability to destroy the world many times over, isn't something that i want to see happen. are you backing the money, the billions that is being spent on renewing it, which will take decades? our party policy is to renew. what is your policy? when i was shadow defence minister with jeremy, i said tojeremy that we have to make a choice on this. are we going to take on the trade unions who support this and the party members or, are we going to accept what would almost be a fait accompli come 2020? we are now looking at 2024. this will be a fait accompli. i want to ask you, does britain need a nuclear deterrent? interesting that you use the term, deterrent. you say that having nuclear weapons
prevents other countries from attacking us. i don't think it is a deterrent, i don't think we need the weapon. would you press the nuclear button? i could not conceive of any circumstance where i would. think about what you are doing, wiping out millions of women and children, probably consigning the planet to put death, darkness, destruction, why would any politician post about that? i find that quite difficult. so there'd be no point in you being a leader because you would never use it. i can conceive of no situation where i would push the button. what if britain was being threatened by a nuclear power? this is a hypothetical situation. if britain was being threatened by a nuclear power, there are other means by which you can defend yourself, not just through the threat of nuclear destruction. what would your number
one priority be, if you became the next labour leader? number one would be to have a more collaborative approach to politics, which is to understand that our party has been, if you think about it, they have been 28 general election since 1918, we have won just eight of them and the rules of the game are rigged against centre—left parties. it would be to change that. meaning that what? it would mean pr, but collaboratively working with other parties where we have a shared agreement on certain ideas. proportional representation is pretty much your number one priority? renewing our democracy has to be. ijust want priority? renewing our democracy has to be. i just want to priority? renewing our democracy has to be. ijust want to say, does that not show how out of touch you are
with vast swathes of the electorate, there is a lifelong labour voters who went tory in the last election, blyth valley, don valley, sedgefield, none of them are waking up sedgefield, none of them are waking up in the morning saying that we wa nt up in the morning saying that we want a more collaborative approach. we have a crisis of democracy. if you look at brexit... we have a crisis of democracy. if you look at brexit. .. go on. when we talk about brexit, when we talk about why people voted for the conservatives in this general election, you are talking about the symptoms. what is it the conservatives told people in those seats, they told people who voted leave to take back control, because for the past 40 years, peoples ability to have agency over their lives docked at i'm going to go back to pr ifi lives docked at i'm going to go back to pr if i may, you said if you won the labour leadership you do have that as your number one priority, and that suggest that you are out of
touch. i'm talking about democratisation. if you look at what scotla nd democratisation. if you look at what scotland has said to us it is that we are not being listened to, that is why they are voting for the snp because nobody down here as listening to scotland. looking at the community is listening to the term, take back control, they want wealth, stable jobs, a term, take back control, they want wealth, stablejobs, a say term, take back control, they want wealth, stable jobs, a say over their lives, and this political party, the conservatives, was able to convince people it was the european union that were doing that but if we want to get to the heart and the cause of why we have lost touch with so many voters, it is because even under new labour, we never got back to giving people real agency in their lives, real power. 0ne agency in their lives, real power. one example, there are two things we didn't government that we can talk about that show this from whitehall be initiated the sure start programme which was fantastic and worked well. we set up energy cooperatives where hundreds of thousands of people have control over their own energy. what about social care and the nhs? letting
kids get on the housing ladder.“ people have power and control and finance and resource to do the things they want dark, rather than being done centrally down here in london, and ultimately this is what we are getting to to try to get underneath what happened in the selection. because your, one of your rivals, the shadow is the secretary rebecca long—bailey said the last labour manifesto was fantastic, one of the greatest offerings labour have ever had. you said in a newspaper interview yesterday you loved it, it was brilliant, it was like a fantasy football manifesto. that suggests that you not listening to those lifelong labour voters. when you look at the scale of what confronts us, in the climate crisis, for example, when you look at the levels of inequality in this country and homelessness, there is nothing short of their of a radical ma nifesto short of their of a radical manifesto which was going to change that. i will explain why. every
single policy in that document individually i think would have made this country a better place to live. why do you think you suffered their worst electoral defeat since 1935? not simply because of the manifesto. in terms of the manifesto, we should not have dropped, we needed radical policy change in this country, we should not have dropped that in a six—week period. this should have happened over a 2—3 year period, and it didn't happen, and if we had done that we would have better explain to people... there are seeds of truth m, people... there are seeds of truth in, some people would say that jeremy corbyn was responsible for the loss, some people say the brexit position, some people say the ma nifesto, position, some people say the manifesto, there are seeds of truth in all of them. rebecca long-bailey suggested giving jeremy corbyn ten out of ten for his leadership.“ suggested giving jeremy corbyn ten out of ten for his leadership. it is not for me to give marks, the public have already given theirs. it would
not be ten out of ten. i would say, may be a six out of ten, because... what mistakes did he make? mistakes in terms of the position on brexit and sticking to a position, understanding this was a right—wing ha rd understanding this was a right—wing hard right project. we should have stuck to our guns and are position from 2016. that is one of my own personal views. in terms of the issue of anti—semitism there could have been stronger and better leadership on that. that didn't happen. and in terms of planning for the general election there were things i could have been done better, more strategically, but there are also things he got right and the reason i voted forjeremy corbyn in 2015 and 2017 was because our party was in a situation where we we re our party was in a situation where we were triangulating from a conservative party. in many ways he has renewed the party, turned us into a mass political party. but
there were things that we got wrong. ina there were things that we got wrong. in a recent interview, stormzy said he believed 100% of the uk was racist. do you agree? structural racism exists and there are racist views that exist and you have a government. we have witnessed the windsor scandal. if that isn't racist in its actions then i don't know what is. —— the windrush scandal. does that mean every person in this country is racist? no. racism is part and part of the country we live in. when james cleverley was made a cabinet minister he tweeted that you had to sell your souls and self—respect to get there, you would prefer an all—white cabinet would you?” get there, you would prefer an all-white cabinet would you? i would like to see the black members of
boris johnson's like to see the black members of borisjohnson's government like to see the black members of boris johnson's government at the time taking to task, notjust for windrush, not just time taking to task, notjust for windrush, notjust for time taking to task, notjust for windrush, not just for his time taking to task, notjust for windrush, notjust for his comments on his own picaninnies, about people blacking up, i would like to make our stand and the case that boris johnson needed to apologise for his actions, and they didn't do that and as black people, that is what they should be doing inside the conservative party. thank you, clive lewis, candidate to be the next labour leader. we are out of time now. bbc newsroom live is next. good morning. we have a bit of a split across the uk today. for many northern areas it will be mostly dry with sunny spells. further south, more cloud around. in between those two areas, some cloud but some brighter spells. you can see that
kind of split, there, really, over scotla nd kind of split, there, really, over scotland and northern ireland. some showers, wintry over the higher ground, quite breezy in the far north, to the south, rain moving into wales and the south of england. temperatures between 11—13, but chillier across northern areas compared to yesterday. temperatures around 10 celsius lower than yesterday. tonight, rain spreading northwards, some snow over the higher ground of northern england and southern scotland. a chilly night in scotland. a touch of frost in the far north—east. going through thursday, some uncertainty in the forecast in respect of the timing of rain as it moves its way through the united kingdom. there will be some drier, brighter weather united kingdom. there will be some drier, brighterweatherfora united kingdom. there will be some drier, brighter weather for a time before further rain spreads in to the south—west. that will be particularly heavy by the evening. that is all for now.
you're watching bbc newsroom live. it's 11.00 and these are the main stories this morning: iran has fired missiles at two air bases housing us—led forces in iraq, in response to the us drone strike, which killed general qasem soleimani. in response, president trump has tweeted that "all is well" and he'll make a statement later today. the iranian foreign minister said his country will defend itself "against any aggression". officials in ukraine say three british nationals were on board a ukrainian boeing—737 plane, which has crashed after taking off from tehran. 170 people were on board — it's thought there are no survivors. the prime minister is due to have his first meeting with the new president of the eu commission. it's expected the pair will discuss the importance of a future trade