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tv   Outside Source  BBC News  January 30, 2020 9:00pm-9:32pm GMT

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hello, i'm ros atkins, this is outside source, live in brussels as brexit day is finally upon us. 24 2a hours away. the uk is preparing foran 2a hours away. the uk is preparing for an extraordinary moment in its history, we will try and take a look out for what awaits for the uk and for the european as well. the combination of personalities, positions, redlines, white lies, mistakes, misunderstandings that make up brexit process.
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china's coronovirus continues to spread reaching 15 other countries in total. the world health organization declares it a public health emergency of international concern we have witnessed the emergence of a previously unknown pathogen. which has escalated into an unprecedented outbreak. and your questions on the immediate process of brexit and the bigger ramifications both for the uk and in particular for the ramifications both for the uk and in particularfor the eu here in brussels are very welcome, the hashtag as usual is #bbcos. it's the night before brexit — welcome to outside source from brussels. we're in the spectacular grand place right in the centre of town. the city's hosting an event
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to celebrate friendship between brussels and britain. but that friendship between the uk and the rest of europe is about to take on a quite different nature. the uk joined what was then the european economic community 47 years as a member. tomorrow night at 11pm in the uk, midnight here — the uk will leave what's since become the european union. it's a moment of huge significance for a range of reasons. just in terms of the eu's scale, it's losing its third biggest contributor to its budget. the uk paid in a net total of 11 billion pounds in 2018. and it's been of the eu's most influential members on the world stage. through this programme, we'll explain what happens tomorrow night — what will change right away, what stays the same — and we'll explore the challenges ahead for the uk and
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the eu. well, in the more than three and a half years since the eu referendum a succession of british prime ministers have made the journey here to brussels trying to negotiate one kind of deal or another. david cameron, theresa may who took over, try to deliver brexit, but just couldn't get a deal through the house of commons, and then boris johnson, who took over. got a new deal, through the house of commons, it went through the european parliament last night, and no brexit is going to happen. one person who dealt with all three of those prime ministers is jean claude—juncker. he's been speaking to stephen sackur on the bbc‘s hard talk ff sot allowing britain tuesday, with theresa may, we tried to find the terms of the deal to allow britain to leave, and allowing the your opinions to keep safe, their main. borisjohnson, we were approaching the end of a process, so
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we had to, not to make concessions, but to take on board as many british ideas as possible, as we did with his two predecessors, but he was a fair negotiator. i didn't like him during the referendum campaign, but i liked him asa the referendum campaign, but i liked him as a prime minister. you accused him as a prime minister. you accused him of telling lies, as many other europeans. a muster made it somewhat difficult to walk into a room where the man you negotiated with you had accused of being a liar.|j the man you negotiated with you had accused of being a liar. i said that he was using some lies, i didn't say that he is 100% a liar. that's not his case. but having in mind all the criticism which were launched on me from the british side, including ministers and sometimes prime ministers, this was an appropriate answer. guntram wolff from the bruegel think tank.
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thank you very much, it's a blustery evening, so we appreciate you coming out. there has been a huge focus on the risks that the uk is taking by leaving the european union, obviously boris johnson leaving the european union, obviously borisjohnson thinks it's a risk worth taking, but it's still a risk worth taking, but it's still a calculated risk. what about the european union, it is also facing uncertainty now, isn't it? well, i think that you is an important —— it loses two of the members sitting in the un security council, it looses a major diplomatic for us, it was as a trading partner. ithink major diplomatic for us, it was as a trading partner. i think for the eu, it will be difficult to reestablish a close relation with the uk, because the uk wants, of course, half the cake and eat it, in the eu will say actually it will be difficult to get that. so, i think it's quite a difficult and historic moment where we lose, in a sense, a major partner, a major diplomatic partner also, in the eu will also lose globally. so, i don't think that you can compensate that by being more united, because on
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many issues, the uk has been a balancing force within the european union also. i'm noticing quite a difference here in brussels, because in london, inevitably, politicians there considering what the uk is going to become, where does it fit into the world, whether they like brexit or not, i don't feel the same level of self reflection here in brussels among european union officials. is that fair, or is this a moment when that you needs to consider what it is and what it wa nts to consider what it is and what it wants to become? i think the european union has been considering this question quite a lot during the last ten years, and perhaps one of the reasons why the uk in the end decided also to leave is that there we re decided also to leave is that there were major decisions that had to be taken here in brussels on integration of the euro for example, we re integration of the euro for example, were the uk was franklyjust a sideline. so these decisions, in a sense, the reflection of what to do with the eu. so we have the divisions amongst ourselves, but we are determined to stay together. you have been studying the european
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union for years, did you ever imagined that friday night would come? to be frank, i believed so as of the referendum day, i even believed the referendum would be lost, but five years ago, i would have never thought the uk would leave the european union. for the moments, thank you very much, we appreciate your help. well, the event that's been happening here in grand place as mentioned is to celebrate the friendship between brussels and the uk. here's the mayor of this part of brussels telling me about this event. tell me why you who have decided to do this event this evening? for many reasons. first of all, i want to send a message to all the british citizens. who live in brussels, belgium, united kingdom, that brussels stays a city that you want to have a relationship with these people, and all the british citizens are very welcome in brussels. brussels is one of the most cosmopolitan cities of the world, and also its very important for me to say that it's not a sad
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day. we need to sing about the future. where we are talking, let's walk, because i want people to see how large the event is. lots of people queuing up to go in, walking into the ground class itself, do you see brexit though as a rejection of belgium? as a rejection of your? for me, it's not a rejection of belgium, we are very attached to our european union, and we know that the relationship between the united kingdom and belgium in brussels in particular is not with the european union, but it does —— we need to start to live together. there are more than 7000 british citizens who live in brussels, and as the mayor, it's important for me to say that they stay citizens of the city. are you concerned that the economic ties between belgium and the uk might be affected by brexit? yeah, it's very important to do this in culture, economic, all what we can do
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together. you know, our economy are very linked. we know that we have so many things to do together, and it's a new start. that's not a start that the belgian people chose, but we respect the choice of the uk citizen. i want the viewers to see, here we are in grand class, is it right you are only playing english music or british music? we decided to do british music, also, all of the lighting we are doing a light show with the in a few minutes, and we wa nt show with the in a few minutes, and we want all the british citizens and the people of brussels seeing that it isa the people of brussels seeing that it is a good relationship between the two people. mayor, thank you very much. we'll make your very welcome. as you can see, thank you very much, they have really gone all out here. they an oversized foam box, read phone box over there, the colours of the unionjack are being projected all over the grand place, and despite the weather, lots of people still turning out. yes, those people have gone
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home now, the weather hasn't changed too much, but it has stopped raining. let's continue to talk about tomorrow, friday nights, both the uk and all of the countries of the eu, because it's a huge moment, no doubt. but some things won't change. a transition period begins — and continues til the end of the year. the rights of eu citizens in the uk, and uk citizens in the eu remain the same. the uk will still be part of the eu's single market and the customs union. but transition period ends on december 31. and boris johnson insists there will be no extension. that means thrashing out a new trade deal between the uk and the eu in a time frame many say is very tight. here's the eu's chief negotiator on that. this negotiation is not usual, because at the end of this year, because at the end of this year, because the uk is leaving the single market, its its choice, and
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is leaving the customs union, if we have a new agreement, it will not be business as usual, we have to face the risk of a cliff edge in particular for trade. just to reiterate something we'd out a lot, what's gone before, the withdrawal deal, all about the terms of the ukdeparture. after tomorrow, a new phase of negotiations kicks in — focused on the future relationship. there is no better guide on what's to come than adam fleming. in the last two and half years of the brexit talks, i've spent a lot of time in this pub, but, here are five golden rules from this fave that could help us out in the next phase. i will do that one again. my god, i'm so out of practice.
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no, sometimes means may be. the eu is really tough when it comes to its redlines and deadlines, rates? well, they're prepared to give ground where they are prepared to give ground, remember, the withdrawal agreement would never be reopened, and it was. the ireland deal is set in stone, and it wasn't. the deal has to be done two weeks before the summits, and it didn't have to be. that's why it's really important to look for clues for areas where they are prepared to be flexible. expect the unexpected, sometimes things that everyone thinks are going to be very ha rd to that everyone thinks are going to be very hard to sort out are sorted out relatively quickly. think about the uk's financial obligations. sometimes, things that everyone thinks should be sorted quickly because they should be sorted quicklyjust because they should be sorted quickly just aren't. because they should be sorted quicklyjust aren't. think because they should be sorted quickly just aren't. think about the irish border. what will surprise us this time? may be fishing won't be the big row. —— everyone thinks it's going to be. you've also got to expect the unexpected. the eu likes
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to set out what it wants to achieve well in advance, it's got to, because that's how they keep the member countries all on the same page. they also liked doing things that they have done before, so there are only a certain number of ways that each problem can be solved, that's why you've got to read the documents and understand the fiddly processes the eu applies to other countries. luckily, we are here to do that for you. this is getting really long. thank you. cheers. rights, where was i? oh, yeah, negotiate in haste, repent at leisure. often it seems it's over when it isn't. in december 2017, for example, the british government was celebrating because they'd agreed the outlines of what would become the outlines of what would become the brexit deal. but it included pledges on northern ireland and the irish border which proved very difficult to determine —— turn into reality, but not fully reality even now, everything leads to something else further down the line.
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it's an ongoing process. i used to think that i was michel barnier‘s way of saying no comment, box, actually, he was describing the big old combination of personalities, positions, redlines, white allies, mistakes, and misunderstandings that make up the brexit process, which just all shifts over time, and i think only may about three people understand it all. oh, and there's one other one. everyone always says, "0h, one other one. everyone always says, "oh, that's the hard but done, the next bit will be a bit friendlier, bit easier." it never is. we will see more of that in a minute, because a special edition of brexit brexit cast is coming up in about 15 minutes' time. still to come, as the uk prepares to count down to the exit tomorrow night, we'll try and predict what the future might hold for britain as it goes it
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alone. companies involved in the refurbishment of grenfell tower prior to the fire knew their materials were dangerous, but promoted them in pursuit of money. that's the claim made by a barrister representing the victims, the bereaved and their families, who was speaking today at the second phase of the inquiry into the tragedy. our reporter sarah campbell was at the inquiry. today we heard from some of the family, some of the residents, some of those who had family members who we re of those who had family members who were killed in the fire, and some survivors. now, stephanie, qc, who represents almost 300 of them said that both the management and the refurbishment of the tower fire safety concerns were either ignored or overlooked. she listed everything from sort of door closers being removed to failing to provide an evacuation plan for all the residents. she talked about the fact
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that there was an epidemic level of incompetence from a fire safety perspective. ross atkins with outside source, we have left the warmth of the bbc room for a blustery ground place in brussels, as we continue to look ahead to friday evening in the moment that brexit happens. midnight here in brussels, 11pm in the uk. we will come back to brexit in a moment, but let me update you on what the world health organisation has been saying. the world health organization declared the coronavirus outbreak a global health emergency. the death toll in china, has now passed 170 — with more than 8000 cases. there are also confirmed infections in every region in mainland china — as well as at least 15 other countries. this started in wuhan around a month ago — there are now confirmed cases
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in australia, singapore, taiwan, malaysia, south korea, japan, vietnam, cambodia — and we can now add thailand and the philippines to that list. further afield, there are cases in north america — the first person— to— person case has just been confirmed there. also cases in sri lanka, nepal, germany, france. and in the last 2a hours we've had more confirmed in finland, the uea, and india. this just in from the who. the main reason for this declaration is not because of what is happening in china, but because of what is happening in other countries. russia has also partially closed its 4000 km eastern border with china. here's sarah rainsford in moscow. for the moments, flights are still flying, but, for example here in
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moscow, where there are chinese tourists and hotels, there are no medics going to those hotels, taking tours before they head out to the to check that there are no symptoms or signs of anyone having caught the virus and potentially therefore spreading it, so a whole series of measures in place, although, the authorities they are making it quite clear that there is no reason for panic, there are certainly no cases confirmed of the coronavirus here in russia yet, but the deputy prime minister has said that they are likely to happen. that's what russia is doing. other countries have suspended flights, halted road traffic and stopped chinese citizens entering. in hong kong, some trains to mainland china have been suspended, but the border with the mainland remains at least partially open. here's rupert wingfield—hayes in hong kong. in downtown hong kong, it looks like business as usual, but, look closer. almost every single one of hong kong's 7 million people is now wearing a facemask. demand
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for them far outstrips supply. this was the line this morning outside the one shopin line this morning outside the one shop in causeway bay that had fresh supplies. people here waiting more than two hours, limited to just one box of masks each. so is all of this mass wearing doing any good to prevent the spread of this new virus? it's hard to say, medical experts say that wearing a mask is certainly a good idea if you go to a hospital, or if you are in a confined area like a train or aeroplane. but they say more important than wearing a mask is washing your hands. frequently. and with hot water and soap. people here are spooked by the speed the virus is spreading in china, and they want masks. translation: we have to be prepared for what's coming, says this woman, even now, a couple of boxes at home, those are not going to last even north korea closed its border with mainland china when the crisis began, this woman says, why hasn't our government on same?
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hong kong today partially closed its border with mainland china, but that has not stopped the post—new year rush. so, this, i'm on board, is the train that goes from the border with mainland china here back to hong kong, you can see it's filled with people who have come back for mainland china where they have been spending the lunar new year holiday, the fear here is hong kong is that this is the pathway that the virus can use to get from mainland china into hong kong. translation: this lady has come back from her hometown in guangdong. people are scared, she tells me, they are not going out, they want to be safe. children are staying inside and adults are only going out to buy food. hong kong is now waiting nervously to see what happens in the next few days, will the controls work, or will this epidemic spill across the border? root winfield hayes, bbc news, hong kong. half past ten here in the evening
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in brussels, which means by my calculations, 25 and half hours away from brexit happening, and let's try and consider where the eu is heading now that the uk is out. over the years, eu treaties have consistently contained a clause expressing the aspiration of achieving "ever closer union". back a few years, the uk's former prime minister david cameron unsuccessfully tried to remove the phrase when he was pursuing reform of the eu. questions remain about whether there ought to be a limit to that ambition. here's a tweet from the atlantic magazine's tom mctague. certainly the uk had enough sway that it negotiated opt outs of integration it wanted no part of — the euro being the biggest example. but it didn't stop the integration from happening. with the uk gone, the question of how much further to go remains. we know french president emmanuel macron is strongly in favour of more centralised military capabilities.
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others would like deeper monetary union to help stabilise the eurozone. or want better enforced eu wide immigration politics. but, and it's a significant but, not all eu members want these things to happen. let's look over some of these issues with a couple of guests who are joining me now. thank you to both of you for coming, laura, first of all, tell us about your organisation and where it fits into the brexit equation. so, i'm from a campaign group which is a citizen rights organisation and we are campaigning to protect the rights of the 1.3 million british citizens or uk nationals who have chosen to live and work and perhaps or retire or study in another eu member states. frederick that ties in with your concerns representing younger people in europe. absolutely. we want to be the voice of young people in europe. we are national youth counsellors and youth organisations and indeed we are thinking about making sure
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that the effects of brexit are mitigated. lauren, let's talk about citizens‘ rights. in a transition period at least until the end of 20/20, they look like they are protected, is that satisfactory? until the end of next year. what‘s important, as you say, is to reassure people that nothing is going to change on saturday morning if you are a british person living on the continent. however, after 2020, we have some serious reservations about what‘s going to happen next, and our main concern is that because we are losing free movement and its cross—border working rates, this will make life much harderfor people working rates, this will make life much harder for people who live and work, that‘s because 80% of us are working age, and a lot of us have built our lives and provided for our families by using ourfree movement rights and our cross—border working and getting our qualifications recognised across europe. and getting our qualifications recognised across europelj understand recognised across europe.” understand that a lot of lives are based on those principles and the ability to do that, but the uk people voted to restrict freedom of movement, it was one of the main drivers of the brexit vote, so how do you swear both of you, really, your desire to maintain citizens‘
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rights, maintaina your desire to maintain citizens‘ rights, maintain a certain way of living, but respect the democratic choice of the uk? well, it's up to the uk government to think about this. it's about citizens' rights, it's also about youth rates. we don't think about that fact that, for example, there is also funding coming from the european union to the uk, one specific example is the youth employment, within the region where youth unemployment is really low, the european union is finding the very specifically for apprenticeships for trainee ships, for people going in transition from education to a job, and there is no guarantee that this will still be after the uk leaves the eu.” guarantee that this will still be after the uk leaves the eu. i want to help understand, what would be your best case scenario, presumably your best case scenario, presumably you accept that brexit is happening, you accept that brexit is happening, you accept that freedom of movement to some degree has to stop, so help me understand your best case scenario from that starting point? it comes back to the point that you mentioned at the beginning that the
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uk voted to leave the eu, welcome actually come 60% of the continent did not get to vote, because they had been out of the cave for you long even though i had a direct impact on their own future, and the eu promised we will be able to carry out our lives isaac exactly before brexit, you have an obligation to do that if you have power over people, and you are not going to let them vote. so what we want to see happen in the future relationship negotiations, want to see free in cross—border working group right to make reprioritizing of a back trust. it's make reprioritizing of a back trust. it‘s disgraceful that we have been negotiated into this position without essay. a future relationship could be formed. it might. we are quite sceptical about it, because all the signals we have been getting from the uk suggest that they want to move as far away as possible from free movement as they can and have a points—based system, but in our case, we are asking we are a discrete group, we were promised our rights will be protected, we didn‘t get to vote, and it‘s important that people get to carry on their lives as before so they can provide for theirfamily. as before so they can provide for their family. laura, frederick, thank you very much indeed, really, theissues thank you very much indeed, really, the issues we are discussing here
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highlight the fact that there are many unknowns about the exact future relationship between the uk and the eu. that is to come, because when brexit happens on friday evening, then the uk and the eu go into a new stage, where they start fashioning that future relationship. no doubt that‘s going to come up in the next edition of brexit cast, which will be coming your way in 3—4 minutes‘ time. hello. once again, we start with southeast australia on your world round up. and could we see some drastic changes in the southeast over the next couple of days? let me show you what i mean. this temperature chart shows how temperatures compare to the norm. these really vivid reds show show well above average temperatures at the moment. notice what happens this weekend. taken over by blues. temperatures plunge below average, a real feel of autumn from the height of summer on friday, where we could see temperatures hit 43 degrees in melbourne, 42 in canberra. but it‘s these storms towards the west which will bring the big change, pushing through adelaide as we finish
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friday, rumbling into the melbourne area as we go through into saturday. these will be pretty nasty storms as well — large hail, damaging winds, real risk of flooding too — and temperatures drop back into the low 30s in melbourne by the time we finish saturday. notice, though, canberra still 41 degrees but those storms are on the move. and saturday night into sunday, they will hit canberra. again, it could cause some huge issues before dropping temperatures back into the 20s here next week. notice melbourne, from low 40s to just 17 degrees on monday. that is one change and a half. and not far away, big things happening in new zealand. after a fine day on friday, rain starts to pile into the south and west of the south island. so if you‘ve been there, around the areas of westland, we could see as much as 500 mm of rain. quite a mountainous area, but the winds piling across those mountains could reduce severe gales to the east but these will be like hairdryer winds. they will be pushing in increasingly humid and hot air to eastern parts of new zealand — where, on sunday, it‘s chucking it down with rain in the west — we could see 3a, 35 degrees
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in the east. bit closer to home, it‘s all been about temperatures rising here, not to those sort of levels, but also the impact that‘s having on rainfall amounts in norway. we‘ve not quite finished january — already, records have been broken in many western areas, well over 500 metres of rain. and that‘s because our weather in europe has been dominated this winter by westerly winds, piling in the milder air. so it‘s rain rather than snow in western parts of norway. more of that to come over the next few days. what we‘ll notice on friday is plenty of cloud around away from the southeast, where it will be dry and sunny. and temperatures above levels they should be for the time of year, widely in double figures. mid—teens across parts of france, down in towards iberia, where we could be pushing 20 degrees by this stage. and that warmer air will be pushing its way eastwards as we go through friday night and into saturday. more rain piling into western norway, as you can see, but the temperatures by the time we hit the weekend, even with some rain around, will still be into the teens. and there will be parts of southern france, into spain and portugal,
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where we could see temperatures in the mid, maybe high 20s. nowhere near that for ourselves. an exceptionally mild day on the way here tomorrow. but it does stay windy. more showers around. and there‘s more details coming up in half an hour. now, from a chilly evening here in brussels, where we have been talking brexit come into the warmth of the bbc‘s radio theatre and a special edition of brexitcast. brexitcast. .. brexitcast... from the bbc. danny dyer: no-one's got a (bleep) clue what brexit is! donald trump: brexit is, errr... dominic raab: i hadn't quite understood the full extent of this. we are particularly reliant on the dover—calais crossing. keir starmer: this election blew away the argument for a second referendum. boris johnson: i urge everyone to find closure. let the healing begin.
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ursula von der leyen: i am sorry. we will miss you. yanis varoufakis: a process which i can only describe as a dog‘s brexit. applause welcome to brexitcast. you‘re not here to enjoy yourself. you‘re here to work. on the way in, you were all handed one of these, it brexitcast memorial binder. how amazing is that? said no one in the country ever. and if you open your binders, inside, you will find yourfirst lea ked inside, you will find yourfirst leaked documents. this is like a murder mystery perjury. who is going to be colonel mustard? i want to be miss scarlett! what this actually is, people asking what is going to happen to brexitcast. the best way to a nswer happen to brexitcast. the best way to answer is some legal certainty in
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the form of an agreement and we are going to sign with you tonight, if you all brought a pen with you. this in yourfolders you all brought a pen with you. this in your folders called the brexitcast compact. it is a svelte one page document which will codify everything you need to know. we are going to read it. each one of us will read each one of the articles, and if you agree with it, you have to shout imac. limited circulation. the producing party herein pledges to provide in—depth analysis and decree in a humourous and friendly manner, chat. the listening party pledge to consume orally and listen. aye! got that one through! should include imac or the uk's the partner from the eu ——


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