tv Charlie Rose Bloomberg July 3, 2017 4:00pm-5:01pm EDT
♪ announcer: from our studios in new york city, this is "charlie rose." >> good evening. i'm jeff galore, filling in for charlie rose, who is traveling. president trump met with the south korean resident earlier this morning, expressing concern with president trump declaring the era of strategic nations with the north korean regime failing. he will also meet with vladimir putin next week during the g-20 summit. the anticipated meeting comes amid tensions with moscow. joining me now is julie
hirschfeld davis. also joining me is philip rucker, the bureau chief for the washington post. julie, let me start with you. how much common ground is there and the administration new south korean administration? the south koreans are talking about talking and diplomacy and the trump administration is ratcheting up the rhetoric. >> that's right, i think there is a fair amount of common ground on paper. president moon and president trump are very concerned with the north korean behavior and continuing provocation. we heard them both speak about addressing that in different ways. president trump is really intensifying his message to the sort of byns, extension to the chinese, who he will also see next week. really getting a lot more aggressive about his approach to
dealing with north korea. it's not clear where president moon is on that. he is the things that disappointed with on that is the degree to which china has been willing to intervene to put its leverage on north korea to change its behavior. in the absence of that is not clear he's going to get that. where alleally clear of this rhetoric goes. he's talking there he cap about aboutts -- very tough patients running out. whether it is military or economic, it's not really clear. he saw the sanctions that were put in place this week. whether or not that will be successful is unclear. >> philip, is the administration going it alone? if they don't have chinese support, if the u.s. wants to push in china saying, we don't want to, what do we do?
the problem, there's not agreement in the region on how to deal with the north korean threat. you see president trump wanting to escalate. like julie said, patience is running thin but in south korea you got a new president trying to figure out his own relationship with trump and the united states and has been studying the actions of the united states at of the past few months and he wants to get on the same page with the u.s. and they are just not there. we saw that today at the rose garden. more orton today for president trump is the china relationship that he spent a lot of time trying to convince his government to step up its actions in terms of sanctions and economic pressure on the north koreans. so far they have been unwilling to do that and that has really frustrated the white house. >> regarding south korea and many other countries that the president has talked about since assuming office in for, he did talk about sharing the burden as
well, with trade deals. that seems to be part of the conversation in a lot of these discussions. >> absolutely. he did make the point about burden sharing and the american troops stationed in south korea. it wasn't clear what he met in that -- what he meant in that context. if the south koreans are supposed to be providing support they haven't yet provided, that he did lecture president moon sharply on trade and it has to be fair and good for the united states. he really criticized the u.s. korea trade deal that president .bama signed a few years ago basically said he wanted to see better terms for the united thees, it had to begin for american worker. that's a message he has been taking around the world and he will be taking it to all of will countries, where he meet with leaders on the sidelines and with leaders in multilateral talks.
we would hear tough talk from this president on trade. it's not really a message that europe and the other countries represented want to hear. >> philip, the g-20, obviously an enormous amount of attention on what's going to happen. >> that's right. germany, hosted by chancellor merkel. she's planning to talk a lot about climate change and trade, two issues where president trump, as far away from the consensus among the other 19 countries, you may end up with a dynamic where the united states is still somewhat isolated in those talks, which could be revealing and interesting about the state of geopolitics. look for angela merkel, the new french president, mccrone, -- other allies to increased pressure to get back to the table on maybe the paris agreement, the climate record that trump withdrew the united states from and also on the trade issues.
>> seems like people pay as much attention to the body language in these meetings with leaders. >> absolutely. those handshakes, the expressions on the faces, the posing of the family photo, always a strange and awkward moment. i a lot gets a read into that. it will be interesting to see -- philip is right, there's a big divide between president trump and a lot of the other lead -- leaders on trade and even migration. will they actually push the envelope or will they be more interested in making it seem on the surface like there is some common ground so that they can see to make some progress where possible on certain issues? that remains to be seen. body language will be a big tell on that. and of course everyone is looking to see what the body language is like in him and vladimir putin on the sidelines. will it you all handshakes and grinning? some furloughed browse as the
president takes his first face-to-face meeting with him. >> what is the white house saying about that meeting with that america -- with vladimir putin? >> they are not saying much, other than to acknowledge that it's going to happen at some on the psy mightn't. it's not clear how much access there will be for the media to the meeting. will it be just a quick photo op? or will the leaders be making public statements? of a answering questions about the relationships? that would be revealing. it's unclear what the topics of the discussions will be. we can imagine that they may be discussing counterterrorism, the situation in syria, perhaps the islamic state, an area where the trump administration is eager to find common ground with russia. but it's not clear, for example, if there will be discussion at all about the 2016 presidential election. his president trump going to
confront and about what the u.s. intelligence agencies have concluded? that russia intervened under the direction of putin with the exclusive game of electing trauma trump? >> what are the risks to taking a meeting like this if there are no clear goals that we know of? >> well, it's a very risky meeting. it's a meeting that trump has to have. the president of russia, it's late in the game, even in the first year of a presidency, for him to be meeting with vladimir putin. but if he goes in there without an agenda, which is what the white house sort of indicated when they confirmed that the meeting was happening, that is huge risk for him and the united states. you can bet that vladimir putin is coming in with a big agenda of his own, including wanting to see the sanctions imposed on russia for the seizure of crimea and the interference in the
ukraine and meddling in the elections lifted. and he wants to seek some common .round on those areas what is he prepared to give in return? if it's not clear on the we -- on the way in what the united states is seeking or the points we want to make with regard to election meddling here and abroad, than he could come away looking like he was had or was naive. putin will get a friendly looking meeting and it will underscore the narrative out there that he is too cozy with him, somehow beholden to givenhich is are damaging the investigations going on about the election. mo,art of the president's his confidence in his ability to operate on the fly. that he can potentially enter this meeting and figure it out
as things go along. >> that's right, and julie is correct, this is really risky. bepart because trump may their improvising and proven is not going to improvise. he's got a strategy. he's a focused leader, former kgb officer, saying exactly what he's prepared to say, nothing more and nothing less. it may be that he has trump on the spot and trump may start saying things that the u.s. is not comfortable with him saying. i don't know what will happen, exactly, but another thing they will look for is whether this will be a meeting where it is just the two presidents. or will it be a more formal bilateral meeting with a delegation from both countries with a few people flanking the presidents, helping to balance out what's said in the ?iscussion
>> how does the national security adviser figure into all of this? >> he certainly advising the president on how to play this. whether or not the president is going to take those, that guidance, and the talking points that i am positive general mcmaster and his staff are drafting for him? that's another matter. we know that general mcmaster is as concerned as general mattis and secretary tillerson saying that they are about russian behavior. there is the russian desire to project a lot of toughness and a lot of determination to see russia change its ways, but there is also, general mcmaster is keen to see -- to help trump explore these possible areas of cooperation. he question is, how does approach the discussion about that so that he is seen as actually achieving something in a shrewd way rather than giving concessions to somebody who has
engaged in a lot of conduct around the world and the united states has said that they are very uncomfortable with? >> philip, if the u.s. -- go ahead. let's trump is going to be meeting with running your putin but a lot of domestic political pressure back on him in the u.s. and certainly all the democrats are going to want and expect him to be tough on bruton -- on letting your proven, but key republican senators are going to be expecting the same. there is an expectation and pressure on trump to be tough with vladimir putin and confront did to thehat russia u.s. election last year. >> julie, if the u.s. is offering in concessions in this russian meeting, what might they be? >> seeking concessions from russia? what they would want to do, what they have talked about doing, is
establishing a channel where they could potentially cooperate to reach some sort of settlement or resolution to the situation. of a has been talking special envoy for ukraine, potentially getting the united states, ukraine, and russia at the table to talk about potential solutions to de-escalate the situation, of course. whether or not they can make advances on syria, there's idea of a peace agreement in the way that john kerry was talking about last year. whether they can take the temperature down a bit and do a better job of cooperating in the efforts against the islamic state, that's an open question that they would want to ask for. the question for the united states and president trump is whether he would want to or seek to ease to lift the sanctions that are on russia as a result of what's happening in the ukrainian elections. congress has weighed in pretty on legislationg
a couple of weeks ago to codify those sanctions and basically make it impossible for the president to lift them euro -- unilaterally. that creates an interesting dynamic for the meeting. if trump was shrewd about this he could argue to vladimir putin , listen, i need to show my congress that i have something from you if you want me to be able to get the power to ease these sanctions in exchange for better behavior. >> you talk about bipartisan pressure before, as well as bipartisan pressure on the president over his use of social media. specifically, twitter. i wonder, is the administration anxious to turn the page and so -- sort of focus on g-20? are they all too anxious to have the continued media discussion? >> it's a bit of a mixed answer. i know the white house officials feel that the media discussion
has been a net win for them, galvanizing the base and presenting the president as a victim of the establishment and entrenched media interests that are out to get him. insofar as it energizes his supporters and gives them a common enemy, that's politically advantageous. but the street -- the tweet specifically about eco-krzyzewski and the crude nature that has bothered people inside the white house, they would justice soon turn the page on that and stop talking about it. they are eager to be talking about some of the items on his agenda. they felt like they had a good week lambasting the fake news media. had three resignations at cnn that they saw internally at the white house as a real victory for them. they would like to be focusing on that and be focusing on health care. this is energy week, after all.
there has been very little attention on energy, but that's the theme for this week and they want to move beyond krzyzewski -- mika brezinski and that discussion. >> regarding energy, what is the -- it's extraordinary how much of this can get lost in all the noise, but what is the message they want to get across? >> this is the third week in a row where they have had like a themed week. infrastructure, technology, now energy. thee is so little talk of subject at hand. the media is partially responsible for that, but the president himself is the one getting in the way have his own tweets, thein these online fights, his focus on an adversarial relationship with the media. bandwidth to get the to cover what they say is the subject of the day. we heard the president talk in terms he has talked before about
energy independence and the need to lift regulation and expand the development of energy in the united states. bringinglked about mining back and have beautiful coal is and this is a consistent message we will continue to hear from him. to talkhave a chance about energy when he goes abroad as he goes to warsaw and poland, they got their first shipment of american liquid natural gas last month. or earlier this month. is something he will tout, that the united states is exporting and have rated is for the country. but a lot of that will be lost in talk of the rest of the controversies he has art with the comments he has made on social media. the question is, can they rein ?im in enough on message
>> the president talks a lot about lng deals. and energy more broadly. he wants to be seen as a dealmaker. somebody helping to create business opportunities in a state. with many business components around the world, really. they want to focus on policy but there is a little policy coming from the white house of our, you hear from its that the white house and the media are not covering tax reform, but there is no tax reform. there's no legislation or policy or infrastructure and. the president is pushing the in theructure bill senate but hasn't given a full throated defense of the health care bill in explained to the american people what exactly it is point by point, why it's better than the affordable care
act that we have now. the onus is really on the president to get out there and promote policy through his bully pulpit. >> the president's people i think would position this as a brushback, right? to get people moving? >> [laughter] -- >> whether that is effective or not. >> yeah, he just want to have something. he likes to talk about his presidency as historic and having accomplished more in the first five months than anyone else and he is just looking for a win. >> which is senator's right now -- from the post reporting, which senators right now are more problematic in terms of getting thisll
through? >> susan collins, from maine, and is another group of senators who are more assertive and have doubts about this will or are ready to post right now because they don't think it goes far enough to fully repeal the affordable care act. even ted cruz has expressed doubt. there is a feeling that he would probably vote for the bill if push came to shove. >> all the ads about troicki are all over the ice. >> what about the terms of making it go for a vote. >> all of us who have covered these legislative fights know that as more time passes, you can set -- set momentum. >> a lot of these might say they are against the bill.
they have some room here. they will be able to give people room to get to yes. what you would like to see, they are actively coming up with alternative. coming up with a compromise that will satisfy the moderates enough to the unborn. as we heard him say, listen, it's this or we have to sit down with chuck schumer and the democrats. they need another vote in the house, which will potentially be very problematic. the could be room for more modifications than to look to the right. that will be the goal when they get back. >> the travel ban, what is a
bona fide relationship? it went into effect last night. thesee seen the talk of protests at airports. the is that from administration's stand? >> they are in a place where they can go forward. they will be reviewing it in october, but this was an effort to get this moving and so, basically if you have travel the guidanceedated that the administration put out yesterday, you should be able to travel. cap are about to hit the that the administration says .hey are willing to accept that's going to go to affect pretty tight. there are these exceptions for people with what they called
bona fide relationships and it's an interesting slicing and dicing based on where parents count, but grandparents don't count, nieces and nephews don't. it's kind of a strange deal and i think we are going to see a lot of compelling stories of people's -- people whose relatives are not able to come, even though they have the wherewithal to get them here and give them up hastily -- to live and get settled. but that's basically going to be -- we are going to see weeks and weeks of those kinds of tories between now and the supreme court us review of this. >> this is the wording of the supreme court, but they are not going to let it -- clear it up. not until they decide in all. >> that's exactly right, they will be long resort -- recess in the summer, taking it up in october. we are not going to get a definitive, and ruling on the travel ban until october at the earliest.
>> morton norman foster is here. he was once called the mozart of modernism. over the course of six decades he has become one of the world's most revered and prolific architects. his iconic structures include dhs -- hsbc building in hong kong. steve jobs chose him and his firm to design the new apple headquarters that opened in april. also only -- also recently launching a foundation in madrid. helping new generations of architects and designers anticipate the future. i am pleased to have norman foster back at the table and welcome. you have done some buildings, done some designing for steve jobs with respect to some of the stores? >> that came later. >> that came later. >> the compass, the main building, steve ross vision for
the future, -- steve posse vision -- the's vision -- steve posse vision was the start -- steve's vision was the star. he said norman, i need help. how quickly can you come over? i was there a few weeks later. it was going to be a one hour, to our meeting, but it took over the whole day. from the beginning to the end, finished in the kitchen over pizza with families. it was total immersion. >> intosion into what? his vision for his project. materials inthe glass, the california landscape of his youth and together we talked about that. he talked about the fruit bowl of his youth.
i suggested that this could be incorporated into a landscape. we loved the idea. then we went to pixar. which in many kinds of way was was different but relevant to the conversation. it was a very intensive day. if i do a word picture of the conversation of that day, you can relate it very directly. he even talked about a theater for 1000 people. >> where he could make the presentations and the things he did on an annual basis. what did you make of it? >> i thought that he was remarkable in that he could think about the big picture and be on his hands and knees, worried about the details of a socket and a plug. so, that ability that i admire -- i admire it in an architect thinker, that
ability for the headlines in the fine print. >> people the new him said that art anded uniquely technology. >> i would say that's a good description. he was totally about the future. focused. shortly after he passed away i had to present the screen to the top 100 and my opening bridge was a quote him steve -- don't think of me as the client, think of me as a member of the team. he was creative. charlie: we now have let's call the circle, or the ring. did he talk about that idea? >> no. what is kind of below the was the way the project evolved.
the circle came relatively late in the process. ae circle emerged out of dialogue between his perfect vision for something called a pod, essentially a space with monastic cells on the side. so that the individual could have a degree of concentration that there would be a, -- commonality on the team space. that had certain dimensional constraints and then there was the big picture of the building landscapes that started out like his vision of stamford, with its social space and the heart is a landscape space. they kind of became rectangle squares, then moved into circles with something called the propeller scheme. and at one point there was this crisis. we could not reconcile the ideal interior with the ideal exterior.
and then kind of, click, the circle came. it was one of those eureka moments but it came out of a long process. charlie: you wanted to eliminate the barrier between building and nature. >> really a think that was part of the vision from the start. and when he had the opportunity side, all adjoining of a sudden 175 acres was a prospect. something that would be shared not just why the people in the main going, but all of the other team of apple in the neighborhood. charlie: i want to show some photographs and you will recognize them. tell me what i am seeing there. feet that is the 1000 presentation theater.
it is a carbon fiber disk floating, without visible structure. the glass drum is the structure. glass, everything kind of hidden in the joints. really doing more with less. charlie: next slide. >> these are the eyebrows, the canopies. you can see that they are highly reflective. that green landscape is being mirrored into the space. from the main areas of facade reducing glare, kind of giving a unique identity to the building. charlie: where did the glass come from? >> from our variety -- it was processed in came from germany, china.
three buildings were created for this project and a new industry arose in california and sacramento area charlie: wyoming for stories -- sacramento. charlie: why only for stories? >> the building is about communication. it's described as a very large contact, but i collect building. if you look at the original campus holdings, dissolved into one, everyone is under one roof. this is great for creativity and communication. you can work vertically and horizontally. the last public pitches he made was to the cupertino city council in case for the building. >> and he made it so eloquently. charlie: what's your best memory of him? intense,e who was dedicated, focused, sense of
humor. very warm, very human person. charlie: what does he share with michael bloomberg, who you have >>t done a building for? individuals, very different buildings, couldn't be more far away from california than in the heart of the financial square-mile of the city of london. but to individuals, totally hand on. so many in that position would be delegating down to project managers. two wonderfully opinionated individuals terms of how the program should work and they are prepared to make the effort and be demanding. charlie: do you want a client to tell them exactly what they want? or do you want them to outline it so that you can get the structure freedom to come back area and >> the more information that you can have, the more that
you can respond to the very special need of that organization through that individual. really, you want someone who has strong views, but an open mind. you can play a kind of intellectual ping-pong. you can show ideas. they can reject, absorb, transform. comest of that process something very tailored to that organization. ideally it has flexibility for change. charlie: mike nichols, the film director, saying that he expected the same thing from actors that he expected from his architect. he wanted size. -- to surprise him. >> absolutely. when that relationship is working on a one-to-one with teams, becoming one team, the
element of surprise is -- forlie: what was the vision bloomberg and his office tower in the heart of london? >> he did -- described it as fitting in, the way that the building would appear from the outside. i think that the building is radical in the way that it breeds. it's naturally ventilated, like apple in that respect. pioneering.ly busy, polluted streets. to pour the air through the building, to filter it and reduce the noise level, that's really quite a challenge. that building really does fit in. potential ofad the going much higher.
it has the potential of going lower in the cityscape. but at the same time it's giving a lot back to the community. it's creating an arcade, a public route from the metro station on the line of the historic washington street. this building was on top of the street. >> with an incredible treasure trove, thousands of pieces of leather, gold, tablets, and extraordinary collection. it kind of encloses a roman temple. and the metro station below it. charlie: how do you fit to building in with the surrounding building? >> really knitting it in, learning from history, canoeing the line of streets. , but at the history
same time a similar parallel to the apple building. trained tog was also help bloomberg works, which is unique organization in many ways. plates, big communication, the of italy to look at ross and see something. i think he has said that it should be about life, heart, and other things. >> i have been pioneering that since i was an offer that is -- office void. [laughter] -- office boy. [laughter] it's about lifestyle. remember, as the attachment becomes more and more difficult, people are going really good lifestyle is. and the healthy buildings. they were subjected decades ago.
and about design? >> for me, the people from the ,ast, like buckminster fuller then individual, argue the first great architect. the first person to draw attention to the fragility of the planet, which happened about the same time as the space race. when you were getting the first photographs of planet earth. , in a way, individuals was demonstrating sustainability for -- sustainability. with banana trees and no energy input, beautifully comfortable. with the changing
demands of how we get energy, does that change demands for architects? >> it presents export merit opportunities. the price of solar, here the optimist's are in the ascendancy. predicted by 2030 that it will be cheaper than coal. realizing that, china is and the biggest but look at the investment. look at the investment better plan. -- battery plants. you have 10 of them in china, either under construction or operating. charlie: how does this change the operating text -- operation?
>> we know that there's a solar prize with my name in switzerland. generated prizewinner the first percent of its energy that is needed. and issorbing more frankly energy sufficient. problems around the world, how many do you do? >> myself unable to focus on a number of project and overview a wide range of projects and i have a fantastic team. charlie: you once said that architects have no power. >> only the power to be able to to pointnal argument small bands there
are a lot of fantasies. charlie: what fantasies are there about architects? madrid.ve this event in its multidisciplinary in terms of the foundation. it was created by the foundation. someone came up to me afterwards and said -- if this forum succeeded with something like and it isnts there not just making fun, it's a war activity, the designer's core activity. charlie: is it fine art? >> it's art, it's about
practicality and responding to the issues. charlie: steve was talking about technology. >> it's a balancing act. it should lift the spirits in late feel better. it's not just about keeping out the rain. with that ruling that has gone through and you have felt a sense of emotion. charlie: you should feel good. >> you should want to come back and stay. i think that there is a wider amount of shelter. one in three of the professional lists. it's a posh way of saying the word out. and in the way the design that is needed to be changed addresses those needs. charlie: you have been signaled out forwards like lightness and
grace. does that mean something to you? >> i would be enormously flattered. , but if you for me go back in time to the cathedrals they were in support of light and enlightenment for and arguably the concept of doing more with less is what we have to do with cities, achieving more with less energy and less pollution. charlie: what is the relationship between architecture and urban planning. >> for me there's confusion. i can't separate the building from the public spaces and the bridges. our experience of the city
transcends the individual holding and it is the andination of the buildings that's where the great -- greenhouse gases are better -- - charlie: how do you stay informed? >> preparing myself. it's a curiosity. in that sense i'm as much a student as i was at manchester however many decades ago. charlie: speaking of, everyone's heart and out when they realized what happened there. have you returned to manchester? have they stayed close to the city? .> i went back the last time i went back i gave a talk at the manchester town hall where i work this youth. with a so-called
powerhouse and i sought arrange the ways in which true communication to read prosperity. i have invoked the words of bill bauer in the raw valley. so yes, i do go back. i understand it was a middle-class background you came from? >> more working class, but i had fantastic parents. 1 -- charlie: did you set out to become an architect? >> i was interested in building. i would walk around at lunchtime and look at holdings. it was only later that i realized the possibility of going to university to study architecture.
realize it was there in the archive, but --eone being very fluid said do you see the book that you did when you were 13? there's a description of curtain while -- curtain walls. so, it's been an up session building since childhood. charlie: what is it to you and the color gray >> or not at all sure. whitesre are silvers and leaving their way to the building. and buildings that have colors of nature. this is about the sunshine of yellow, the green of wrasse. in the same way that you can categorize the buildings as skin and bones, if you take the
bloomberg building is very muscular, which expresses its structure in stone and kicks the rhythm of the street. much a structure that is the skin of the building. these themes come to the architecture. to the: bring me foundation in madrid. what's in this? t-rex as i summarize, it's about .ounger generations student, i was able to go to yell university, during the summer vacation to win scholarships to travel. i won the prize, the money went into a kitty and that
in trying tostart give something back. we're the focus in creating traveling fellowships, enabling students who don't have the means, the bartlett school, for example, to pay for the course. but with more of a focus. that in a the things way i have accumulated over those 6.5 decades, which produces an archive, a think tank, the basis for people to come together. events like the one you talked about in madrid. so, pointing the way for younger will have the responsibility for those big issues. as you know, new york
has often been a venue for the discussion on the future of architecture. reading about your foundation, part of what want is to capture the heartbeat of architecture and how it can serve the future. >> architecture and infrastructure and transportation. we are on the edge of revolutions. the power as -- tower that we know today will be obsolete by 2030. charlie: driverless cars. >> or will you be taking a hovercraft or a drone? charlie: or a flying automobile. fiction in science my youth is now the edge of reality. charlie: when you travel around the world, it seems to me that as i follow what you discussed in conferences, urbanism is getting more and more people drawn to urban life.
country,a developing there's the sense of the quality of life in open areas. -- >> the future of society is the city. by 2050 it's estimated that 75% of humanity will be living in cities. if we are talking about global warming, remember, 70% of the world's cities on the coast with 100of humanity is within kilometers. it's not just a polar bear sitting on an iceberg. charlie: when you talk about young architects, what is it a one? are they different than they were when you were 30? >> i think they are possibly more concerned.
with a heightened sense of awareness. that was the power of the forum last week, to draw students from really all over. with this long line of students getting in, they know why they're are here, it's the future. charlie: even here among non-architecture students, among millennials there is something that we see in terms of wanting to have a more direct connection to the politics of the time. >> but i think the important thing to get across is bringing together the disciplines, working together from the outset. that's one of the main missions of the foundation. charlie: young at heart.
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