tv Fast Money CNBC April 16, 2014 5:00pm-6:01pm EDT
money." the show is coming up in moments with plenty more coverage. melissa leon these earnings. >> we'll also expect the price for wavo. it will be interesting for the pressure on tech stocks, how are prices and how it will do. >> you have some indication that the demand for these shares wasn't that great even after alibaba's weren't strong yesterday. over to you guys. >> "fast money" starts right now. at this hour two big tech names weighing on the nas dag. both google and ibm. google seeing heavy losses. ibm trading lower. we have got top tech analyst monitoring the google call and bring us the updates throughout the hour. let's start off the googles big miss. our tratders are tim, brian and guy. guy, let's kick it off with you. this is one that had been doing okay. >> i think tim did a good job on the closing bell.
they missed revenues. some of the metrics are scaring me. we have collin up 26%. that i think is what has people a little bit alarmed. that growth is slowing. although i still think the stock is relatively fair, if not cheap valuation, if growth starts to slow like this, that's when people make the argument that maybe evaluation is getting ahead of itself. >> we have the snapshot down 543%. pairing of the losses here, tim. >> just to look at levels on the stock, the stock somewhere around 514 you got -- somewhere around 562 is the 20 day. wanted to see it get back up there. we did not. i do not think there was anything bad in here. people around 630. i think if i look at the revenue line you want to see these guys
growing. a company that's traded 16, 17 times. guys that are in the space everybody wants to be. their margins outside of the country are very good. >> well, this is the clear case of what we have been talking about, switching now to fundamentally driven market. economy is not growing as fast as we would like to. google has a long term hold. looks good on 2015 earnings but going to trade sloppy as a result of these numbers. >> long term holding yes. shorter term, if you want to be more agile. >> like a puma. >> google your bet? >> no, i don't think so. tim, i don't think those numbers were that awful we're talking about a company growing here. didn't grow as much as wall
street wanted it too. it just needs to reset itself. in the very short term i would stay away from google. remember what happened last quarter. we had the big drop and it ripped right back. tomorrow morning we'll see. i think for now you put google off to the side and trade some other names. >> i'm not big on round numbers. back in basically september, october, this is where google had the huge move up to 500 and had that move -- bigger move up to 6.25. i think maybe we're lucky to get down to 525. i think you start building a position on google. i think tim's point is fine. collin is going to speak. one other point. i don't think a snow leopard is agile. i think it uses it's camouflage. >> in its natural habitat. >> clearly, the answer is spider
monkey. let's check in with collin. he's got a hold on google. collin has been on the conference call and on it right now using the bat phone. collin, what are you hearing? >> hello. >> collin, what are you hearing? >> not us. >> listen, you know, on the call the cfo and chief business officer have just spoken. the cfo addressed the fact that they realize that investors are concerned about the declining click pricing. they're going to give us more transparency. and breaking it out. they also talked about the cost. investors are concerned about the rising cost. they said there was one time items in the cost. this quarter tied to the nest transaction. i think those comments will help play kate a bit of the investor concern driving the stock down. >> we'll check back in later on. four shares of google. getting back to google in terms of its acquisitions because it's
been a stock that has been -- i don't want to say taken to the wood shed -- but under pressure. made a couple of acquisitions. people are scratching their heads. what are they doing here? what are they doing with google glass? what did they do with motorola? >> i think a lot of these are a lot longer terms. you talk about the drones. those type of things. we saw it with the weakness amazon. i don't think you're going to get a pass for it. collin mentioned that investors are concerned costs are rising. revenues are falling. if that doesn't resolve, i think you might have trouble. >> if show is called "fast money" and there's fast money and slow money. a near term revenue hit and near term expectations. we're in an anti-momentum market
now. so stock gets hit here. if you're a long term investor, buy this stock on the weakness. >> do you think after what's been going on in the rotation, do you think a lot of the guys that you invest in think this is a holding at this point or were they waiting to jump in later down the road? >> i think this is a core holding. if you want to own technology, this is a core holding. they may have some sloppiness on the portfolio approach they're doing to these longer term ideas. look at the revenues. we heard from sir martin surrell yesterday. it's going to quadruple. google is going to capture that. longer term. short term. bk is right. stock is going to trade sloppy. >> what's down 3.5%. all it's done is giving back where it's up today. >> exactly. >> moved from yesterday. >> basically. it's not a disaster by any
stretch. >> under pressure on the after hours trade. coming in soft on revenue. this is one of those stocks up about 8% in the past month or so. it was sort of the safe haven hideout stock at the time when the momentum names were getting battered here. what do we do? >> we don't do anything. we had some serious issues about what's going on in hardware but china also. we're all impressed by what they have done. but at 200 bucks on the chart, this has been a big deal for the stock. this is not a stock you take to the wood shed. this stock is not expensive but i don't know why you have to own it. i would wait for analyst day which is coming up. these a bigger deal than these first quarter numbers. >> i think you short the stock here. you look inside and the cash flow they're general rating is lower. that's what they're using to buy back the stock. these how their -- the stock
hasn't been propped up that much. when the cash flow starts to decline, you sell. >> that was a point. brian doesn't like ibm. basically saying the old strategy of these m and a investments, keeping costs down is not going to work anymore. they have got to do something bigger bigger in order to move the needle. >> we said that. >> you're said that. that was a good call. >> i'm in sort of almost in the camp here. it was not a disastrous quarter but a lot of financial engineering. they have huge legacy hardware. look at the number. it was not good. i think they have some margin compression as well. i think the stock got ahead of itself. they just threw ibm in there which is a completely different story and now they're paying for it here. i don't see this stock -- i could easily see this stock drifting back down into the mid
70s. >> the impact from the ibm number we can see it in accentra. meantime, a 16% stake of the business. guy was all over this. find out how he's playing the name next. here's a look of google's big miss as well as ibms. latest headlines when we come back. stay tuned. that's birney. oh, i bet that cone gives him supersonic hearing. watch what you say around him. i've been talking a lot about his procedure... (whispering) what? get our everyday price match guarantee plus a $100 rebate on 4 select tires from your tire experts. chevy certified service.
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there is a soda stream on the rise today. the at-home beverage company. take a listen. >> soda stream. it's not going to happen tomorrow but the weakness in soda is bought. >> soda stream is up more than 13% since then including today's 18%. >> these are unsubstantiated rumors. but there's chatter that somebody is going to take a 15%
stake paying anywhere up to $52 a share. stock was up. where there's smoke, there's fire. somebody is going to pair up with these guys. they reported i think on may 21st, it's going to be volatile and i think you stay along the stock. >> yelp shares, a buy from a neutral rating this morning. yelp is down at 2% on the back of the disappointing tech earnings. >> it should be down 2%. this is a name i think is tough to trade. we talk about google. google is in this space. they're in there. open table is vulnerable as well. it's a buying opportunity down here. maybe and maybe it goes up. but going to go up without bk onboard. >> and it's hardly valued territory at this point. >> i like when bk talks in the third person about himself. >> does a lot actually. >> he does, too. >> next up, bank of america, the
company swinging to a loss for the quarter falling about 2% after reporting $2.4 billion legal charge. anthony. all they had to say was the stuff was lumpy. >> they have got a lot of litigation expenses. this is the -- i mean, this is another quarter of litigation expenses. the problem is the revenues are down about 4% year over year. so that's a bit troubling. why i like the stock and will continue to hold a name like this is because of the improvement in the economy. the curve is going to positively slope after the fed pulls out. i would stay on this name. it's still attractive here. >> by definition a rumor is unsubstantiated right. >> otherwise, it wouldn't be a rumor. >> i'm big on those things. >> lumpy. >> lumpy. >> that was the nickname of bill murray in "scrooge."
lumpy. >> let me say something that people might care about. >> thank you. >> if you look at bank of america, they were down 11%. but everybody knows they were much better than jpmorgans or citi. >> quarter on quarter, year or year compared to jp and wells fargo. >> they stole miller lynch five years ago. this is a leverage business to when these markets pick up. bank of america, we know what happened last quarter. i would own it here. >> coming up next, we are taking our hunt for the next hot ipo to the clouds. good data stores be the next. plus, much, much, more on google's big miss. what you need to know ahead of tomorrow's trade ahead after this. tdd# 1-888-628-2419 searching for trade ideas that spark your curiosity
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american express falling in the after hour session on earnings. back at head kwquarters. >> the miss was on the top line of $8.2 billion. analysts were looking over $8.3 billion from american express. the cfo saying the bottom line was helped by expense controls. in the first quarter the company saw a deceleration in their customer card spending in the first quarter, specifically here in the u.s. he said it was the deceleration in spend among small business and corporate customers. they said they believe it has something to do with the weather in the first two months because they started to see spending
pick up toward the end of the quarter. on the top line, it missed because of slightly weaker growth. bill business was up 7%. company's long term goal was about 8%. that was a little bit weak. back to you. >> thanks for that. should we dismiss these numbers? this is exactly what we heard from a lot of retailers. >> the stock was up almost 1.6 today. it's given become 1/3 of that now. you have had selloffs like the one we seen over the last couple weeks. it's not ridiculous valuation wise. they did beat eps. i think you got to give them a pass. if it happens next quarter, we'll have a conversation. i'll give them a pass. >> i think since that first quarter has come through, i think you can make a parlay into
what it means for the consumer. i think the big problem with the stock is 17 times earnings. this is a stock that should be traded 11, 12, 13. i think there's a lot of competition. i don't know if their going to hold that. >> axp or mastercard visa. >> i'm an axp fan. this is a core franchise for a reason. it has a different brand than visa or mastercard and i also think that plays better internationally with a higher consumering group of customers. i like this thing. they also do fun stuff with their cash like buy back a lot of stuff. >> cloud space heating up the ipo market. making information sharing much easier for businesses. the company is valued at $2 billion or so. making it our next hot ipo. let's bring in senior editor, eric. great to have you with us. >> thanks for having me.
>> take the back of the envelope, $2 billion, can you get there? >> exactly how you can compare box to friends in the cloud. you're going to -- you should wait until probably sales force, a few other cloud players report their q1 numbers. yeah, with the market down right now, they're struggle with that valuation question. $3 billion, $2 billion or $3 billion. >> this stat jumped out at me. for every $1 made they spend $1.38. it's basically slashing prices on cloud increases the competition. >> exactly. going to be an on going problem. box's problem, it comes down to cost. they have a very expensive sales force. when i talked to aaron levy the
ceo, the 29-year-old founder, he said they have a plan to increase their sales through third party. they call the channel partners. cdws of the world, people like that. there's not a cost basis for bearing those sales. secondly, they want to reach out to companies that are building their own software. every company is some way a software company if you're in insurance, health care, media. they want to be the back plan that you build it on. >> what's to prevent google, amazon web services from taking that business? they're bigger. and i bet you their costs are lower. >> and amazon is bringing in amazon web services. about a $2 billion, $3 billion business service. but the big company box is compared to is drop box which is
within its own ipo and it's been consumer first company from the beginning. >> is there a race to go public between the two of them? >> some people think so. i think there was a lot of attention paid to the fact that box brought its s1 product first. >> you said these guys are trying to disrupt microsoft's price, et cetera. who do you think has gotten an endorsement on what they're doing in the cloud software space that you don't think is all that? in other words, what other names do you think are people giving too much credit for being in the space? >> let's see. for being too much credit in the space. i can't really think of anybody specific. box wants to look more like these sales force workday and so forth. so the way that the cloud is looking is supposed to look like a land rush and everybody is trying to grow as much as
possible. the case has got to be proven. the rubber is really meeting the road. >> got it. >> guy, in terms of these names, we have heard about the price. >> sales force is the name. everybody looked past valuation. tim knows better than me. they looked past valuation until they don't anymore which happened last quarter and you saw this drop from 68 to levels we're seeing now. they have to prove themselves in this coming quarter. i think it's on may 22nd. it is an interesting name. but if these companies are -- i think that's one of the points we're trying to make, gets dangerous to own some of these cloud names. >> speaking of ipos, we are awaiting the twitter of china to price tonight. taking a deeper dive into the business. take a listen. >> pop quiz investors, what's
micro blog in chinese? the answer weibo. up load pictures and share with friends. a huge user base. roughly 144 million active users as of march and 70% of its users access it using their smartphone. and weibo makes most of its money through advertising. but the timing of its ipo could be a factor. the global social media etf down 14% this year. >> all right. now ahead of its listing weibo updated it's pro spec does. coming in higher than the $25.9 million it earned during the same quarter last year but lower
on a sequential basis. in q1 it reported $4.8 million citing seasonal trends. >> thanks for that. in terms of the rev view, the decline was 5%. they're saying because it's chinese new year. buy that? >> these guys have huge competitive landscape. it's the classic case, have they converted. the things that give me confidence about this stock is who are their main parents. >> two biggest companies. >> it's alibaba and alibaba is 26% of their revenue. and these are guys that will support this company. i will be buying sina. not terribly interesting on the current numbers. i think the headline risk on competition, way overstated.
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. got some news on yahoo. we have got the details. >> we have got news on marissa meyers compensation at yahoo for 2013. her total compensation was $24.9 million versus $36.6 million in 2012. part of it was her stock award was valued less. her awards were $8.3 million compared to $35 million in 2012 where they had to give her a bonus in order to switch over
from google. her actual salary did rise. her 2013 total salary included $1 million in salary compared to less than $500,000 in 2012. back to you. >> thanks so much. yahoo shares holding up well after a big pop in today's session. did you want to fade this? >> well, no. not yet. i think you trade the stock between 30 and 40 bucks. the implied valuation is somewhere between 140 and 150. they own 20% of alibaba and you have a $42 billion company which means a $42 price target. past 40, no. i would take profits. >> i agree. i thought they were pricing the stock incorrectly. people don't believe in alibaba ipo.
i think it's going to be closer to $200 billion which puts the stock closer to 42 bucks. that's the way my math works. >> better display advertising growth, too. >> checking on google shares. josh monitoring the call. >> google missing on the bottom and the top. on the conference call executives fielding question from analysts about cpcs, costs per click. advertisers don't want to bid as much. google executives confident that will change. take a listen. >> i believe in the medium to long term mobile pricing has to be better than desk top pricing. the way to think about it is in mobile you have location and contact of individuals which you don't have on the desk top. the more you know about the user and their contacts, the more effective advertising you can provide them. >> google executives are
listening. you will see this convergence at least in the medium to long term. back to you. >> let's go straight back to collin who has been on the call. collin, in terms of the medium to long term that he was talking about, what time frame is that. >> it's probably about three years or so. but they are very meaningful points. if google can stop that declining, get it to grow again, to be more than the desk top. these going to fall back to the top line. when you look at google at it's hay day, when mobile started to come up with smart phones, converting less effectively. that's a key point. they talked about attribution. giving metrics useful to the traditional tv buyers. that's a key highlight.
>> that's my point. who else is going to get in google's way in terms of determining pricing? their premises about pricing seems could be self-fulfilling. >> they need to have less friction and they address that on the call. people neat to optimize their sights. the people are building these sites and having a decade to get their desk top sites polished. now need to focus on mobile. >> what's your take on google and tell clients tomorrow morning? >> the key with google is you have the founders continuing to spend. expenses are always going to be growing. it's a wonderful company and their core business continues to generate cash. if you can wrap your hands around the fact that they're layering north of 2,000 people a quarter. there's still upside here particularly as you move into the second half of the year.
q1 is never a great name for google. >> thanks so much for joining us. collin. guy, we hadn't see the stock down as much as 6% bounce back. what does that tell you? >> there's -- well, let's talk about -- tomorrow this thing comes in unchanged i think. i don't think it was that disastrous a quarter. we have seen that before with google. it always comes back to haunt them. i think it's going to happen again. >> i don't know how you can stay away from this company after the pullback it's had when people wanted to own the stock and take it to even higher highs. 17 times 2015, i don't know why you're not grabbing it tomorrow. >> the companies have the ability to, once prices drop, raise prices again. that's an difficult thing to do. i understand google has a dominant position. we used to hear this on the
internet. you give away your product and raise your prices later. how many dot comes were out of work -- >> i think you don't see the spider monkey out there. >> that's a good point, tim, just to bring it back to serious trade. >> the move to mobile is something we haven't seen before. there's going to be not a lot players. >> the big macro is the advertising is going to quadruple over the next five years. >> ibm shares down about 4% on the after-hours trade. joe covers big blue. joe, great to have you with us. this is one of these names on the street that not a lot of analysts are enthuse assic about. what about the quarter educates you about how people should trade the stock tomorrow and the
next few days? >> i think the quarter was pretty underwhelming. each business decline and missed revenue expectations. the earnings were helped by buy back some of the tax rate. i don't think the quarter doesn't talk to any improvement in the fundamentals. ibm looked compare actively cheap. the fundamentals haven't improved and the quarter didn't indicate they were going to turn around at any point in time. >> i think joe is right. i think the declining, a lot has been financial engineering catching up to them but you can't hide margins. i'm looking at pretax margins. 14.7%. a year ago they were 17.6%. to me, it doesn't go well for the stock price going forward. >> yeah. i wouldn't get too excited about it. the three points i would make is first ultimately ibm needs to
grow. you'll see expansion if the company grows in aggregate. the second one i say is that the original plan may need some tweaking. the merging markets were down 6%. that's where the more profitable dea deals are. i think they're trapped by the 2015 plan. it might be useful to run the business with not an ips number. >> we're going to leave it there. thanks for your analysis. you're a seller at these levels. >> yeah. >> are you still a seller, kbgu? >> yes. yes. i think you still have to sell the stock. hopefully you listened to us last week. >> sell it to where? >> i think -- >> i -- >> i think that's fair.
it's held three different times. >> what's your take? >> maybe near term guy is going to be right. but the reason why buffet is in a name like this is they're shrinking the float. >> doesn't that come to an end at some point? >> eventually be a private company. >> no. but they're using 100% of the their cash flow to buy back stock. it's ending right now. >> you have got 10% earnings yield on the stock. you have got a lot of room to do that. i just think that guy has got to be right near term. would ha this company is going to support itself by buying back its shares. >> drop for csx. pete. >> the quarter looked good. then people pulled apart. this stock has had a tremendous run. i think the rails are still okay but feels like wants to trade
down at the 25 level. >> anthony. >> i like this name a lot. i think this is a place to put some money. >> drop for twitter, down 2%. tim. >> after 11% yesterday, not surprised to see the stock come back today. the streets seem to be more constructive on the valuation here. i think these guys are a quarter away from showing montization right now. stay away. >> control4. are you taking profits? >> no. well i have got to be profitable first. you can't take profits if you don't have them. here's what i like about this name. i think with facebook and google, this is very similar product. i'll be in this one for the long term. >> true car revving up. we talked to the former ceo of hyundai about his latest endeavor behind the wheel of
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. welcome back to "fast money." already hire after beating on its earnings report for sandisk. the company increased its full year gross margin outlook. the range, 47% to 49%. up from 45% to 48%. people like to see those margins going higher. back to you guys. >> flash memory maker trying to move more into enterprise where the margins are better. >> you think a company like this would have a high valuation. it doesn't. you can see the continued momentum here. the stock has been a monster and you want to short it but you can't. we have to -- especially after a quarter like this. i don't know if you go flying into this tomorrow because of the run-in it's had but you can't play from the short side either. the stock up 5 bucks you hope you get a pullback and buy it
then. >> new york auto show. cnbc is live with the former ceo of hyundai and current truecar board member. phil. >> thank you. i'm joined by john who you're a board member of truecar.com. i have to ask you truecar.com has filed for an ipo. coming at a time when the ipo market, not the best. nervous about that? >> truecar is a great company. they have developed great relationships across the country. we're excited about the ipo and got that information that i know you're thinking about in the s1. >> i'm nervous about it coming in the market where the market is right now. feeling really good about it. let's move on to the auto show. what stood out in terms of one
auto maker? >> my pick is nissan. you walk over to the stand. remember what the marano did, it was the first sexy crossover. we're trying to capture that magic. it looks great and right next to it is what we think is the next maxima and it looks like they have hit that one out of the park as well. >> on the flip side, you have got toyota with the brand new camry. this is a tough move here. you want to refresh it, but at the same time you can't go too far or misstep, did they do it? it speaks to the dynamics of the mid size segment. the fact they went in and completely redesigned the camry with everything but the roof top shows how competitive it is. i think they did a great job and found a nice balance. >> entry level luxury is that going to be continuing to hurt the mass markets? >> no question. cars like mercedes, they're doing great and having an
impact. >> john, board member for truecar.com. some perspective from the new york auto show. >> anthony, you're feeling on gm at this point now that we have seen some of the seemingly damning internal documents. >> this thing is going to be behind gm before you know it. it's got good long term cash flow and if you're -- >> let's say you're a spider monkey? >> i think you have to stay very quick laterally. i thought they would hold and you still have tape bombs but all out of it. for now i stay away. i do agree with about any that over time you're going to forget about this and have a good company like bp.
>> well, i have, too. >> after btc china says it installed the country's first bitcoin atm. is it possible bitcoin is the choice of currency for elicit transactions on the dark web. the bitcoin uprising, our mary thompson takes a walk on the bitcoin dark side. >> in the last year bitcoin grabbed headlines. as much for the rise in its price as for the link to the underworld including ponzi schemes and outright theft. former assistant u.s. attorney is talking about an online haven for criminals that's rarely seen by every day users of the
internet. when the feds shut down the notorious online black market bizarre called silk road. over 2.5 year period it allegedly sold $1.2 billion worth of cocaine. lsd and other illegal goods all paid for with bitcoin. >> you see that and you think regulations are going to come. and that tends to swing too far to one side. isn't that concerning? >> you are a bitcoin -- are you involved. >> i am not involved in the dark web or transactions. and nautilus coin is not involved. but in terms of bitcoin and all of this, you know what is the most used currency for all these type of transactions? >> cash. >> cash. u.s. dollars. $100 bills. i wouldn't worry about it that
much. >> isn't that scarey music that mary had? >> it is. because it's scarey stuff, the dark web. >> and i am scared. >> it's the time of year for -- >> i got to move on. full documentary tonight or any time. investigations inc. cnbc.com. watch that online. traders making big bets before the report. we will break that down. stay tuned.
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more news on yahoo this afternoon. yahoo reportedly trying to turbo charge its presence on mobile by pitching apple in order to be the default search engine on apple iphones. that according to kara. she says this is the big hunking gold of yahoo but preparing images of what a search product like that would look like and she has spoken to johnny ive about this. back to you. >> traders in the stocks could take a hit after earnings.
mike is in texas with today's option. mike. >> we saw some above average options volume in all three of the names. yum traded about two times it's average and starbucks, about 1.2 times. . krip olt lay i was looking at. moving about 11% on tomorrow's earnings result and the single trade was a buyer of the -- paying about $1.60 for that. it's going to be below 525. the options markets also expecting bigger than usual moves in yum and starbucks next week as well. >> thanks. more options action next friday as this friday is good friday. check out the website cnbc.com. coming up next hour on "mad
money" tonight cramer is gooding a look and talking with neil book coming up next. stay tuned. ♪ ♪ ♪ [ tires screech ] chewley's finds itself in a sticky situation today after recalling its new gum. [ male announcer ] stick it to the market before you get stuck. get the most extensive charting wherever you are with the mobile trader app from td ameritrade.
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these are the two stories that will dominate trade tomorrow. google down by almost 3%. this is pretty much at the levels the stock opened up this morning. ibm down 4%. seeing some pressure in the after hours session. we like to point out we have some special people in the house tonight. members of the st. thomas college business club. welcome, guys. >> sit up straight. >> good luck to you guys. all right. time for the final trade. tim. >> another name, sina, i have been wrong. i think you buy at this level. >> go social and linked in but for a trade only. >> anthony.
>> i would get a long microsoft, big believer in the cloud and new management team. >> psx. >> i'm melissa lee. see you back here tomorrow again at 5:00. don't go anywhere. "mad money" . my mission is simple, to make you money. i'm here to level the playing field for all investors. there's always a bull market somewhere and i promise to help you fine it. "mad money" starts, now. >> hi, i'm cramer. welcome to mad money. welcome to cramerica. other people want to make friends but i'm here to save money. my job is to teach. call me at 1-800-743-cnbc or tweet me