tv CNN Newsroom CNN November 13, 2012 6:00am-8:00am PST
"cnn newsroom" with carol costello begins right now. good morning, carol. >> oh, my gosh! okay. i'll take it. >> don't ask. move smoothly into your program, carol. >> an alabama fan -- >> carol, i'm telling you -- >> i've got you. i'm moving on. good morning, soledad. >> time to move. >> oh, roland. story wooers watching right now in the newsroom. shocking twist. yet another highly respected decorated general caught up in the petraeus sex scandal. this time it's the man in charge of u.s. troops in afghanistan. and more than an affair? searching the home of mistress paula broadwell. fashion faux pas.
known for its runway shows but racism in the briefest of briefs? we talk to michigan state head coach tom izzo live this hour. "newsroom" starts now. and good morning from washingt washington. i'm carol costello. thank you so much for joining us. this morning, a shocking new development in the sex scandal that toppled one of the most respect respected men in washington. now it has snared another top general, john allen, commander of all international troops in afghanistan. today the feds are sifting through a mountain of e-mails and messages he traded with a woman named jill kelley. a mind boggling 20,000 to 30,000 pages and agents are searching for anything inappropriate. now here is the common link. that woman, kelley, jill kelley, she's the one who received
harassing e-mails supposedly from petraeus' jealous mistress, paula broadwell. petraeus admits to the affair with broadwell and has said that this woman, kelley, is a family friend. we'll take a look at each of these players in a scandal that seems to grow more bizarre by the day. first stop, pentagon and cnn's chris lawrence. so, chris, what specifically are investigators looking for in those messages? morality aside, how serious of a concern is an extramarital affair? >> it's very serious in the military. you're talking about an active duty officer, carol. and under the uniform code of military justice, you can be prosecuted for adultery. john allen is a married, fo four-star general who has been running the war in afghanistan. he had already flown from afghanistan here to washington. that's how quickly all of this broke down.
he was already here in washington just 48 hours away from starting his senate confirmation hearing to perhaps become the head of nato. now that this has all broken, secretary panetta has gone to the president and asked that his nomination be put on hold. they're still keeping him as the head of nato because they've got another confirmation hearing for allen's successor. but right now this has really thrown the whole plan of succession into a state of flux right now. >> chris lawrence live at the pentagon. thanks so much. now to more on this woman, jill kelley, tampa mother of three, married to a cancer surgeon. together they hosted parties attended by military leaders, including david petraeus. this is kelley leaving her bay front mansion yesterday. even though the family lives in florida, a government source says kelley is known as a member of washington's social circuit. reporter jason lanning is with affiliate bay news 9. he is standing outside the kelley home. tell us what you can.
>> the pressure is building here in tampa, carol, for jill kelley. at the moment, things are quoit outside of the kelley home. the family has been keeping a fairly low profile. if you can see in the back alley of this home, the media presence here building. so far, the kelley family, jill kelley herself, has not come out with an official statement. obviously, after the development about potentially thousands of documents that link kelley to general allen. 37-year-old jill kelley, known as a volunteer and social liaison for mcdill air force base here in tampa. the pentagon says it's investigating the inappropriate e-mails between kelley and general john allen. there are reports there are as many as 20,000 to 30,000 documents linking the two. general allen served as the deputy commander and for a short time temporary commander at u.s. central command here in tampa from 2010 to tw2012. we know jill kelley had a social
relationship and friendship with general petraeus. we don't know what kind of relationship, friendship or social connection that general allen may have had with kelley during his time here. that, of course, is subject of the investigation. right now, though, no word on what those thousands of documents may contain. this may be an indication, though -- jill kelley has hired abe lowell as an attorney, who used to represent president bill clinton, john edwards and jack abramoff. judy smith has also been hired by jill kelley. she's a crisis manager. and you may remember smith from her crisis management representation of mon ica lewinsky. heavy hitters to represent the family as this family is expecting a barrage of media questions in the next days to weeks as this scandal unfolds. carol? >> wow, i'm still getting over that house. that's something else. jason lanning, bay news 9.
thank you so much. paula broadwell's biography of general david petraeus is one hot seller. no kidding. it climbed out of the cellar to the 111th spot on the best seller list. nothing like a besex scandal to promote a book, something she did not mention on her book tour. >> when i realized the opportunity i had to tell this message to present this portrait of military leadership, i'm not in love with david petraeus, but he is a great role model, values oriented, speaks the truth to power. >> you think this is the weirdest twist, you would be wrong. yes, there is word this morning of a shirtless fbi agent. before we get into that, let's talk about the serious implications of the sordid
scandal. federal investigators search broadwell's home last night and carried out boxes and boxes of stuff, including a computer. tom fuentes is former fbi assistant director. morning, tom. >> morning, carol. >> as you watch all of this unfold, i want to get your thoughts on it. >> it appears that the fbi has received new information that there may be classified material or something either in documents or on her computers at the residen residence. she gave permission, so it was a consensual search. they went ahead and conducted that search last night and remo removed some material, which will be examined at the office in more detail. if i could add, if it had been really serious usually the fbi, if they were trying to be extra cautious, would go ahead and get a warrant even if permission is given for a consensual search. it really -- the fact that it was consensual, we don't know what exactly information they
received to prompt the additional new search but that's what happened last night. they took out more documents and material. >> we know she has some classified documents in her possession. and supposedly they did not come from david petraeus. but does that mean the general is in the clear? are they also investigating him? >> well, that's what they don't know at this point, if she has had contact with other people. at the time that general petraeus was in the military and commander in afghanistan and the time that she was working on the book, he is not the only person that she's in contact with on a daily basis. she was residing in and working out of nato headquarters in afghanistan and would be around his aides and other people all the time. and the general himself would have an entourage of people continuously with him night and day. so, they wouldn't have been restricted to having just alone time with each other. so we don't know who would have provided the additional material. there's been no indication to
date that general or director -- excuse me, or director petraeus ever gave her classified materi material. the original fbi investigation was winding down, saying that it appeared that he had not. >> okay. i have to ask you about this shirtless fbi agent. because it's very complicated. but i'm going to try. >> okay. >> so ms. kelley is getting supposedly these harassing e-mails, and she talks to a buddy of hers on the fbi. and he goes to the agency and says we should really investigate this. then the fbi finds out that he sent shirtless pictures of himself to ms. kelley and now he's under investigation. this is just -- this just looks bad all the way around. >> we're not sure if that's just exactly the only reason why he's under investigation. and we don't know exactly, you know, the nature of this shirtless picture. they are in florida. it could have been that the families were at the beach and he sent a picture of himself and
others in swimsuits. we just don't know that at this point, if it was that type of picture or if it really was a lewd picture. a lot has been said about him being on the case and removed from the case. he was never the case agent. she went to him because she knew him and they were friends and said she had received these threatening e-mails. he reports that in the tampa office and it's immediately assigned to the people who are experts, the cyber squad. agent on that cyber squad would have been designated case agent. he was never the case agent. i think part of the reason he is under investigation now is at a later date when he was not in the loop of what was going on with the investigation, he felt like it wasn't proceeding fast enough or maybe there was something going on in washington that was forwarding the continued investigation. and he took it upon himself, apparently -- or reportedly to report it, eventually to congressman eric cantore.
that's how cantor found out about this. yes, you have the shirtless picture that's being looked at. you also have what he did in terms of continuing to follow the case and maybe reporting it outside the fbi, which is completely inappropriate in any investigation, much less this one. >> there are rumors out there he has become obsessed about this case. we'll talk much more about this part of the investigation in our 10:00 eastern hour of "newsroom." tom fuentes, thank you for sharing your insight. always appreciated. >> thank you, carol. the white house released its first public comments on the general allen investigation. brianna keilar is at the white house with that. >> reporter: this coming from a spokesman for the national security council. it says really, pretty much, what we knew from leon panetta's statement overnight. it said at the request of the secretary of defense the president has put on hold his nomination of general allen as supreme allied commander europe
pending the investigation of general allen's conduct by the department of defense inspector general. we know president obama has gone ahead and put on hold the nominating process, the confirmation process for general allen. that was set to go forward on thursday on capitol hill, thursday, as you know, carol. starting today for its lame duck session with a whole lot on its plate, including these confirmation hearings. general joseph dunford, who is actually in line to succeed general allen in charge of u.s. and nato troops in afghanistan, his confirmation hearing is still set for thursday, still set to move ahead and the statement goes on to say that the president is urging congress to act quickly on that. combat troops in afghanistan, general allen has been overseeing what has been a critical time as president obama decides exactly the timetable for how to bring those troops home by the end of 2014, as is
planned. obviously he wants to make sure that the military leadership is in place in afghanistan for that to move forward, carol. >> brianna keilar, reporting live from the white house. he pioneered the anti-virus software, mcafee, but today he is on the run, wanted in a murder case. ♪ ♪ with the fidelity stock screener, you can try strategies from independent experts and see what criteria they use.
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namely, other humans. which is why, at liberty mutual insurance, auto policies come with new car replacement and accident forgiveness if you qualify. see what else comes standard at libertymutual.com. liberty mutual insurance. responsibility. what's your policy? 16 minutes past the hour. welcome back. in belize a manhunt is under way for mcafee found er john mcafee. authorities want to ask the cyber security pioneer about the murder of his neighbor. mcafee says he's innocent. >> he says he's innocent, carol. he is also in hiding.
this a little bit weird, this story. he gave an exclusive interview to wired magazine. listen to what he said. he said that he saw the police coming and then he ran and went not sand and dug himself into the sand and then he put a cardboard box over his face so he could breathe. he said it was very uncomfortable but they had to do that because, quote, they will kill me if they find me. he went on to tell why he doesn't know anything about the murder, he didn't hear anything. he didn't see anything. there's also a sense, from this -- from the interview he gave wired, is that he thinks that the guy who was killed actually was the wrong guy. and he thinks that whoever was out to do it was out for him. he said also in this interview, he's dead. they killed him and that it really spooked him out. he's on the run. >> okay. so why is he so fearful for his life? >> well, according to wired magazine again, that got this interview -- cnn can't independently confirm any of
these facts -- basically it seems as though, according to this interview, there's some kind of vendetta with the government authorities in belize. number one, he talks about his dogs having been poisoned, there was some kind of fight around his dogs, half a dozen of them, and those dogs died friday. the bellize authorities have raided his property, essentially accusing him of manufacturing meth as well as having unlicensed weapons. those charges were later dropped. there's a lot of tensions between the belize authorities there and it's obviously something bigger is going on. he doesn't trust them. someone is out to get him. of course, there's a murder of a man that people have a lot of questions for. he is also an american expat, gregory falls. he was found in his house in the hallway with just one gunshot wound to the back of his head and lying in a pool of blood. >> what a strange story. we'll continue to follow it.
zain verjee, reporting live for us. how about being fired or laid off and it's all because your employer says because president obama was re-elected? again? it's embarrassing it's embarrassing! we can see you carl. we can totally see you. come on you're better than this...all that prowling around. yeah, you're the king of the jungle. have you thought about going vegan carl? hahaha!! you know folks who save hundreds of dollars by switching to geico sure are happy. how happy are they jimmy? happier than antelope with night-vision goggles. nice! get happy. get geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more. home of the legendary grand prix circuit. the perfect place to bring the all-new cadillac ats to test the 2.0-liter turbo engine. [ engine revs ] ♪ [ derek ] 272 horsepower. the lightest in its class. the cadillac ats outmatches the bmw 3 series.
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a lot of business leaders who spoke out against re-electing president obama, perhaps none more vocal than robert murray, ceo of murray energy company, a major coal company. murray plans to lay off 160 workers, presumably because mr. obama was elected to a second term. i interviewed murray back in 2007 after a deadly collapse at one of his coal mines. let's just say he is no fan of democrats, who disagree with his beliefs about the coal industry. >> i would describe al gore as the shahman of global goofiness and gloom and doom. >> of course, he was talking about climate change there. as you know, alison, most scientists believe there is such a thing as climate change and we have to deal with it. alison kosik is at the new york
stock exchange. tell us about murray. did he really lay off these workers because obamas was re-ele re-elected to a second term? >> is he blaming president obama for that. the coal industry has been struggling for a while. it's an industry under a lot of pressure. now this ceo is blaming president obama because of increased regulation, which he says is the cause for sort of the troubles that the coal industry is going through. now what the ceo does say is that he has decided that these layoffs are necessary to prep for a potential slowdown in production over the next four years. and wall street, it had the same idea last week. we saw coal stocks sell off right after election day. now coal production hit a historical high in 2008. it tumbled a year later but stail stabilized. the reality is that it's kind of hard to blame obama for everything. utility companies have been ditching coal for natural gas, which is cheaper and cleaner and new rules go into effect in 2015 that will make coal production
and coal-fired power plants even more expensive to run. those rules, by the way, carol, stem from the clean air act signed into law by richard nixon. carol? >> you don't have all bad news for us this morning, tell us about the employees of westgate resort. >> this is a real interesting one. david siegle, their ceo, threatened drastic action if president obama was re-elected. instead he is turning around and giving employees a 5% raise. he says they'll need the raise to deal with the increased cost that everyone is going to have to face as obama takes on his second term. he also says with obama re-elected, he's hoping to maintain profits with his company and growth but also admits hiring -- it's not necessarily going to be in the grand scheme of things at this point. he did send an e-mail to employees back in october and it said this. the economy doesn't currently pose a threat to your job. what does threaten your job, however, is another four years of the same presidential administration. guess what, now he says he never said he was firing anybody if
obama got elected and that the media twisted what he meant. carol? >> so strange. >> blame it on the media. aren't we easy targets? >> yeah, but we can take it. we're big girls. alison kosik, thank you. another follow-up to a story we first brought you yesterday kind of about the same -- it is about the same thing. new york franchise owner of several applebee's restaurants who says he may have to issue a hiring freeze to afford the costs associated with obamacare. mike archer says, quote, recent public comments by one of applebee's franchise owners about the possible implications of the obamacare on jobs with his individual company were not the views or opinions of either applebee's or other franchisees. although we respect his right to
speak freely as an american. don't rely know how obamacare will affect things. just have to wait and see. >> one general resigns. another general is the focus of questionable e-mails. will he be the next to step down? we use this board to compare car insurance rates side by side so you get the same coverage, often for less. that's one smart board. what else does it do, reverse gravity? [ laughs ] [ laughs ] [ whooshing ] tell me about it. why am i not going anywhere? you don't believe hard enough. a smarter way to shop around. now that's progressive. call or click today. [ grunting ]
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g good morning to you. i'm carol costello. we're about 45 seconds away from the opening bell. stocks under pressure as trading at the new york stock exchange is about to begin. investors are closely watching lawmakers and whether a deal will be cut to avoid that so-called fiscal cliff. the opening bell today, executives from marriott vacations worldwide. work has started to exhume
the body of yasser arafat. circumstances surrounding his 2004 death after radioactive levels were found on some of his belongings. rumors of poisoning have long circulated around the former plo leader's death. back at home new york's governor estimates sandy's loss to the state to be around $30 billion. a $500 million emergency spending plan was announced for schools and hospitals while thousands still struggle without power. now to that shocking new development in the sex scandal that toppled one of the most respected men in washington. the david petraeus affair has now ensnared another top general, john allen. he is the commander of all international troops in afghanistan. today, the fbi is sifting through a mountain of e-mails and messages he traded with a woman named jill kelley, a mind boggling 20,000 to 30,000 pages and agents are searching for anything inappropriate. here is the common link. kelley is the woman who received
harassing e-mails supposedly from petraeus' jealous mistress, paula broadwell. petraeus admits to the affair with broadwell and has said that kelley is merely a family friend. joining me now to talk about this deepening scandal is jonathan turley, law professor. good morning, jonathan. >> good morning, carol. >> it's crazy, isn't it? >> we're the only two not named in this scandal at this point, in washington at least. >> how you could write 30,000 e-mail pages to someone. >> it takes an effort. you know, the problem for general allen is that he is active duty. so, he could face a very serious charge in terms of 134 of the military code, and this is the provision that's often used for adulterous relationships. when you add to an adult erous
relationship the possibility of the disclosure of inappropriate information or classified information, it becomes even more serious. but these 134 cases were always serious when you have a general. because these are people that meet out punishment in their command. once these things go public it's hard to make that catwalk backwards. you are sort of stuck unless you can show this is completely without foundation. >> it doesn't matter the woman involved -- we are not clear how she was involved just yet. it doesn't matter whether she was in the military or a civilian? kelley orged these social events for the military, but i believe she was a volunteer. >> the military has always taken adultery very seriously, they view it as a moral failure, which it is, obviously. when it comes to general staff, that is even more important because they're a symbol of the
military. now, part of the problem is as a defense attorney -- i've handled both military cases and nonmilitary cases. it's a nightmare when you have a client who is connected with tens of thousands of e-mails because all of us make mistakes. and you never know what's in that mountain of evidence. your client usually doesn't even know. when you have people sifting through something like that, it's often very easy to find problems. >> on the other side of the coin, this jill kelley, she's lawyered up. she's got some very powerful lawyers on her side. >> she needs them. >> what do you suppose she's worried about? >> once again, she did a voluntary surrender of her computers, which i think is a good idea. she's cooperating, which is a good idea. the question, are these classified documents? supposedly, she has a clearance, but my assumption is that clearance is only covering things when she's on active military duty. it would not excuse her in having classified information. i hold that type of clearance.
i've held it for a long time. and it comes with a great deal of obligations. one of the things that we have to establish is the protection of material, not taking material home. it's treated very seriously. for those of us in the field there's often a complaint that the justice department seems to give a free pass to high-ranking individuals while using this as a cudule for people they don't like, like journalists. sandy ber gechlt r, accused of removing classified documents in his socks when he was helping president clinton. he only got a minor misdemeanor for that intentional violation of classification laws. >> so this is long from over and hopefully you'll join us again as we try to make sense of all of this. jonathan turley, law professor at george washington university. he actually took over
command from general petraeus in july 2011 and now, as you know, the fbi wants to know about the thousands and thousands of e-mails he is accused of sending to that florida socialite. nick eamons joins us now. good morning, nick. >> reporter: certainly a lot of time, met him on a number of occasions. certainly he was a man respected by his troops, career soldier, had been threw iraq, working also with david petraeus, then tookh over his job. very much associated with the former cia director, but a man certainly who was aware of the cute problems of the afghan conflict. although many respects of his job was that of public relations, trying to sell the war as success. also a man who inspired great loyalty to many people close to him. aide working for him in afghanistan who said he has done
so many tours in iraq, he wasn't that keen to go back but would always take the call if general john allen rang, which he often did. to describe how he felt toward the man. they were together in a dining facility in iraq. a round landed close and a soldier leapt under the table for cover and general john allen stayed very much in his seat, and said quietly, son, you're not going to win the war from down there. very much a man who made those rounds and field of work and will be baffled by these allegations. >> one more question for you. does this affect at all the projected withdrawal of troops from afghanistan by 2014? >> reporter: i think in a word, no, to be honest. it makes the project look bad and now a third general in a row who has had some scandal attached to him. stanley mccrystal, inappropriate comments to a general, david petraeus, promoted to the cia, but resigning after his
extramarital affair and now john allen. timetable for withdrawal is being made in washington, very much a timetable not influenced by many observers by events on the ground. i don't think we'll see this scandal affect too much in afghanistan. carol? victoria secret fashion faux pas has upset the native american community. why the lingerie company is saying, i'm sorry for that little number [ dog 1 ] i am not a vegetarian! yeah, i might have ears like a rabbit...
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last week at its fashion show in new york, victoria secret model carly klaus wore this headdress on the runway. the outfit sparked backlash from many in the native american community which found the use of this headdress in this setting very offensive. victoria secret's facebook page says quote, we're sorry that the native american headdress and our fashion show has upset individuals. the outfit will be removed from the broadcast. this show will air december 4th on cbs. the model, carly klaus also apologized on her twitter page and says she supports victoria secrets decision to remove this clip from the broadcast. i do have to tell you, i'm not sure it will be missed. lots of eye candy on the victoria secret fashion show so everyone will be okay. >> i think you're probably right about that, michelle. michelle turner, thanks so much.
online petition is putting pressure on macy's to tell donald trump, you're fired. michelle is back next hour to tell us why. the boy scouts get thousands and thousands of dollars from corporations every year, but the agency's policies toward gays has one company saying, not anymore. [ male announcer ] when it comes to the financial obstacles military families face, we understand. at usaa, we know military life is different. we've been there. that's why every bit of financial advice we offer is geared specifically to current and former military members and their families. [ laughs ] dad! dad! [ applause ] ♪ [ male announcer ] life brings obstacles. usaa brings advice. call or visit us online. we're ready to help.
california conservation corps. hold this and then pull. >> yeah. >> it's good they're doing this especially for veterans. it can be hard to find good jobs. play with the chainsaw, get associated, more familiar with it. practice laying hose which we hadn't done with water. >> it's easy for us to click and work together so the teamwork thing fell into place really well. i was an aviation, hydraulics mechanic. we deployed to afghanistan in 2010. it was a bloody summer while we were there. we lost a couple of pilots. i saw a lot of bodies coming back. >> i was in the u.s. navy for four years. my job title was quartermaster. we helped out with amphibious operations, had a lot of marines on our boats.
i was so focused on navy at one point in time, i never imagined myself being a firefighter, i never imagined myself going through the training. it's been challenging for me but the challenge is more than welcomed. >> i'm hoping i get picked up with some kind of fire department or i'm also trying to get into some kind of police work, just experience and hopefully a job. >> being a veteran, tess a big thing to me. it means a lot. i have a lot of veterans in my family. when we have veterans day it's not more or less saying i did my time and service. it's saying i paved the way for people who are going to come behind me to do their time and service. to come home and to celebrate veterans day or to have people acknowledge the fact that i did something like this, it touches my heart. it really does. one.
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the boy scouts anti-gay stance is forcing another sponsor to pull its funds. the giant ship iping company, u.p.s. >> technically, the company didn't pull its funding. instead it's announcing any new guidelines for any funding going forward. so those guidelines essentially disqualify the boy scouts getting any money from the u.p.s. going forward. u.p.s. foundation will only support organizations that are aligned with the company's
nondiscrimination policy, which says that u.p.s. and u.p.s. foundation do not discriminate against any person or organization with regard to categories protected by applicable law. what that essentially means is that all future funding is gone to the boy scouts until the organization welcomes in gay scouts and leaders. now this change is coming about after 80,000 people signed a petition on change.org. u.p.s., by the way, carol, is one of the boy scouts biggest corporate donors, gave 1$150,00 to the boy scouts in 2010. intel announced it was pulling its funding for the same reason. carol? >> alison kosik. reach the final four, then cut down the nets. tom izzo joins us live in the newsroom.
most exciting time on the sports calendar. but long before the nets are cut down next spring, college basketball fans can join the ncaa and marking a milestone. the celebration of 75 years of march madness begins today. you can go to ncaa.com/marchmadness and check out the tournament time line. see kareem abdul-jabbar, and the macy's thanksgiving day parade and starting in january, you can vote for your favorite all-time teams, players, and moments at ncaa.com/marchmadness. and, one more thing, in april, for the first time ever, the men's division one, two, and three title games will be played at one site. tom izzo is hoping to bring his michigan state spartans back to atlanta for the championship game. the team is in atlanta for tonight's champions classic game against kansas. hi, tom. >> how are you, carol? >> i'm good. we're so excited you're here with us this morning. thank you for being here. >> thank you for having me.
>> you well know march madness excitement. you've made 15 straight tournament appearances. what's going to be special about this season? >> well, i think with the 75-year celebration, it's incredible. i've been in six final fours, and there's nothing like the ncaa tournament. march madness to me, and i'm a big football fan is still the greatest couple of weeks in the whole year. >> don't you think college basketball is so much better than pro basketball? >> well, i don't know about that. i think the pros do a better job than we give them credit for. i think sometimes, you know, it's favorite, but there's something about the david and goliath activity that happens that first week of march madness that i think brings everybody together and have somebody to pull for. >> it's so awesome. you were a small college all-american, what will it feel like for these division two and three players to have the title game where the big schools are playing. >> well, i give the ncaa credit.
bringing us all together means a lot. being a division two guy myself, i have a great proceedings. and just the thought of being around things that happen in a final four weekend will be great for division two and three. and everything's relevant, a championship's a championship. >> you're right about that. i'd like to ask you a broader question about recruitment. has kentucky changed the model for college basketball? that is recruit athletes, not student athletes to play for one or two years, win a national championship before leaving school without graduating? is that the way schools must now compete in division one basketball. >> i think john's done a great job at kentucky, and it's unbelievable how he's handled things. i don't think it's the way it's going to be. i still think there, there's student athletes, that's the way college is set up. but the one and done thing is a phenomena. i don't know if it's going to last, if it's going to be that way all the time. it's going to be something we'll
all have to deal with. but i don't think it's the norm. he's done an exceptional job and, yet, i think at most places, you'll see guys staying two, three, and four years. >> i hope so. because not only are the many fans, they want them to stay on the court, but not many college players make the pros and you have to wonder if colleges are recruiting kids just to play basketball in the end, isn't that harming young people? >> well, i think that's the greatest problem we have right now. we talk about the kobes that make it, the lebrons that make it, we forget about 60, 70 guys that come out each year that don't make it. and that is one of the problems we have. that's where parents and kids got to do a good job, coaches got to do a good job. the nba, i think, does a great job of giving you an idea where you stand. we just have to make the right decisions. and sometimes that's hard with all the middle men involved. >> yeah. okay. coach, you have six final fours in the past 12 years, the top among ncaa basketball coaches, any other challenges in your future beyond michigan state?
>> well, michigan state's where i'm going to be and i hope to accomplish some of the things some of these other great coaches that have been in this tournament down here in atlanta might accomplish. you look at what mike has done, we've won at michigan state, but i think we're always chasing, can we be part of a smaller fraternity? can we win two? can we win three? i'm not sure anyone's going to win ten like john wooden did. >> you have no dream to be the l.a. lakers coach. that job was open a short time ago. >> boy, watching that circus out there and what's happened, i think i'm going to leave that to the bus family and maybe magic can help out there a little bit. >> coach izzo, thank you so much for joining us this morning. we enjoyed it. >> thanks, carol. next hour of cnn newsroom starts after a short break. meet the five-passenger ford c-max hybrid.
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stories we're watching right now in the newsroom. a scandal has already ended the career of cia director david petraeus. now another top general is under investigation. will he be the next one to step down? joking about jesus, why does it seem to be acceptable and okay when other religious figures are off limits? is that right? and donald trump has been the punch line for a joke or two, but one well-known celeb is serious, she wants macy's to dump trump. "newsroom" starts now. good morning to you from washington, i'm carol costello, thank you so much for joining me. a shocking new development in the sex scandal that toppled one of the most respected men in washington. the david petraeus scandal has toppled another, john allen. and today, investigators are
sifting through a mountain of e-mails and messages he traded with a woman named jill kelley. a mind-boggling 20,000 to 30,000 pages and they're searching for anything inappropriate. here's the common link. kelley is the woman who received harassing e-mails supposedly from petraeus' jealous mistress paula broadwell. petraeus admits to the affair with broadwell, but says kelley is merely a family friend. we're going to take a much closer look at each of these players in a scandal that seems to grow more bizarre by the day. this whole messy scandal came to light because of jill kelley, the volunteer in tampa who organized social events for the military. she allegedly got those harassing e-mails from a jealous paula broadwell. so kelley went to a buddy at the fbi for help and that's when things got a little strange. devlin barrett is a reporter for the "wall street journal." good morning. >> good morning, how are you? >> thank you so much for joining us, i'm fine. we appreciate your being here.
tell us about this fbi agent. he took kelley's concerns to the bureau, but he himself comes under scrutiny. >> at some point in the investigation, his supervisors become concerned he's too personally close to kelley and a big part of that concern is because they found out that prior to this investigation starting, he had sent pictures of himself shirtless to kelley. and they just felt like that was too close between the two of them and they weren't sure what it meant, but thought he should have no role in the investigation. and remember, he's the person who sort of starts this whole process going because he gets the complaint from kelley and brings it to the cyber investigation unit and that starts the ball rolling. and then, frankly, at some point becomes unhappy and thinks this whole thing is going to get swept under the rug and goes to a member of congress to complain. >> so, well, back to the shirtless photo. they're in florida, so he might have been at the beach, maybe. i mean, is that a possibility?
and he sent her those photos? >> it's hard to know without seeing copying of it, and so far, i don't think anyone has seen the photos in question to make a judgment on them. my understanding from sources is that the supervisors were concerned enough that he was too familiar with this woman. not necessarily in an inappropriate kind of relationship kind of way, just there's such a thing about being too friendly with someone who a major player in the investigation. >> why did he feel the fbi was sweeping this under the rug? >> my understanding, he gets told at some point, stop talking to people about this, drop it and leave it alone. so he is essentially shut out out of the whole process. by that point, he knows the investigation has found an affair involving mr. petraeus. and so he, for reasons that aren't entirely clear, comes to the conclusion that this is
going to be swept under the rug and nothing is going to be done. so in october, he reaches out to a lawmaker and that sets off another chain of event in which a senior republican official reaches out to the fbi headquarters to say what's going on? >> and all of that has brought us to where we are today. devlin barrett, reporter for the "wall street journal," thanks so much for being with us this morning. >> thank you. >> let's review now, investigators are looking at kelley for her ties to general john allen, commander of international forces in afghanistan. and they're also investigating pamela broadwell for her relationship with former cia director general petraeus. federal agents searched broadwell's house and seized boxes and one computer. why are they continuing to investigate? robert bair is the former director of operations in the middle east and joins us from california. welcome. >> hi. >> okay. so you had concerns about the
way this investigation was going all along. put things in perspective for us. i mean, what might this come to? >> this has turned into a bit of a farce, obviously. i mean, the fbi agent personally involved with the source is no-no, this cannot happen, should ever happen. the fbi was right to take him out of the case. and the fact he went to congress based on a hunch tells me this g got more to do with politics and personal motivations and he somehow thought he was going to be able to affect the elections. that's just speculation on my part, but an fbi agent cannot go to congress in the circumstances like this, there's a chain of command, it usually works, the fbi has got egg on its face at this point. but it doesn't detract from the possibility that there's been classified information that will appear in these e-mails that
will appear in broadwell's house, documents, there's already documents been found. you know, and once the department of justice goes down this road, the chances of some sort of indictment coming out of it are pretty good. >> yeah. and just to be clear, the fbi is investigating broadwell and petraeus, but not investigating general allen, right? the military's investigating. >> not investigating general allen right now, but in those e-mails, he said something or you don't know. because once these investigations get underway, they can take any comments and turn them into some sort of classified information. it's not such a good court case, but this is the kind of avenue it could take. it probably won't, but i can't say for sure. >> i was going to ask you, you know, this is such a sordid story -- and we don't know if it's a sordid story on general allen's part because we don't know what those communications said, right?
>> well, they've withdrawn his nomination for commander of nato for inappropriate e-mails. that tells me it's fairly serious. but, again, that speculation. what this whole story is from benghazi to petraeus to broadwell, the rest of it is really sort of a tawdry soap opera. first these things come up the first time, you think, oh, there's a political scandal at the bottom of it. go the to be benghazi. the longer this goes on, the less it looks like it's about benghazi. >> i'm a citizen, my biggest concern is our troops in afghanistan. my biggest concern is intelligence failures in the united states. will this sordid soap opera affect those very important things? >> it does. you know, we don't look serious. the world is at crisis now. especially in the middle east, we're withdrawing from afghanistan, iraq is still a mess, and we've got our general
corps and our cia occupied by other things than national, you know, national affairs. and i think that's unfortunate. i almost wish this would never been made public. >> yeah. i think you got a point there. former cia operative and cia contributor robert baer, thank you so much for being with us this morning. >> thank you. how is the news of general john allen's involvement in the petraeus scandal being handled with the troops? we're going to talk about that side of the story next. [ female announcer ] imagine skin so healthy, it never gets dry again. can your moisturizer do that? [ female announcer ] dermatologist recommended aveeno has an oat formula, now proven to build a moisture reserve, so skin can replenish itself. that's healthy skin for life. only from aveeno.
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his leadership has been instrumental in achieving the significant progress at isaf working alongside our afghan partners has made bringing greater security in ensuring afghanistan never again becomes a safe haven for terrorists. general allen is entitled to due process in this matter. >> that he is. nick peyton walsh is in beirut, lebanon. good morning. >> good morning. >> you've met general allen, what do you make of all of this? >> reporter: those working around him who respected, trusted him, worked very hard for him, i'm sure it becomes a huge surprise to them the length of this correspondence and the inappropriate conduct according to officials. this is a career soldier man who worked incredibly hard in afghanistan himself, had a difficult job, the key decisions
on the ground being taken by washington, pre-ordained timetable about troop withdrawal, found himself in many ways the public relations man, trying to sell the war of success despite the declining popular opinion of it in the united states. and in fact, the fact he himself it's fair to say saw very clearly where the failings in the campaign were. but also a man who inspired great loyalty from the aides working around him. i recall one senior aide working alongside him didn't really want necessarily to go back into the field said he would if he called him and asked him to. and he explained why that man was inspirational in his words. described them being in a dining facility in iraq when a mortar fired causing the facility to rattle. a young soldier jumped under the table for cover, but general allen stayed calmly in his seat and said, son, you're not going to win the war from down there. so a man who, i think, inspired people to tell those kind of
stories, to become mythical almost in the eyes under them. how is it possible that it came to this? >> thank you. we're coming up on 15 minutes past the hour. time to check our top stories now. president obama meeting with labor and progressive leaders at the white house today. it's the first -- it's the first of a series of meetings this week focused on deficit solutions in the economy. on wednesday, the president will meet with business leaders and then on friday with congressional leaders from both sides of the aisle. police in the central american nation of belize want to question the software founder john mckathy. they want to speak with him after his neighbor who is also a u.s. citizen was shot and killed. tells "wired" magazine he's innocent and in hiding. for the first time, motor trebds c trends car of the year is electric. it gets the equivalent of 74 miles per gallon and goes from
zero to 60 in four seconds. you could go about 265 miles on a single charge. some older parents are going deeper into debt to help their children with student loans. the average student loan debt for someone over 60 is nearly $20,000. alison kosik joins us now from the new york stock exchange. good morning. >> yeah, that's a lot of money. these parents are the ones paying back their kids' student loans. they're saddled with almost $20,000 on average. and that debt has been going up since the recession hit. the average debt is up more than 5% since last year, even more alarming, the total student loan debt for seniors, it more than doubled since 2008. the percentage of those seniors, defaulting on loans is up, as well. in fact, in the first quarter of this year, almost 6% of all student loan defaults were people over 60 years old. now, there are clear reasons for this. for one, college costs are going
up, plus it's a difficult job market for job graduates. students are coming home from college and their parents are having to shoulder all of this debt. as parents, we'll go for our kids, but it's not just students who can't handle the debt load. some parents can't handle it either. carol? >> bring me up, give me a silver lining. >> well, it's kind of hard to find one. but there has been some good news on other types of debt out there. mortgage debt and credit card balances are shrinking, which means americans are paying off some debt even as student loan balances grow. borrowers under 30, that shrank significantly in the first quarter of this year. people are finding ways to pay off other types of debt and pay it off on time. that's the best i can give you so far as far as the glass half full in this situation. >> i'll take it. it's okay. we still love you. alison kosik at the new york stock exchange. still ahead, the white house releases its first statement
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those two generals in a white house briefing later today. but for now, we do have reaction to the general john allen investigation. so let's bring in our white house correspondent brianna keilar. good morning, brianna. >> reporter: good morning to you, carol. and as you know, this story is something that broke in the middle of the night, 1:00 a.m. eastern time this morning. so a couple of hours ago we got the first reaction from the white house from a spokesperson from the national security council saying at the request of the secretary of defense, the president has put on hold his nomination of general allen as supreme allied commander pending the investigation of general allen's conduct. as you know, general allen was up actually and is here in washington ahead of what was to be his confirmation hearing on capitol hill on thursday for him to go over and be in charge of u.s. and nato forces in europe. that is now on hold. president obama putting that on
hold at request of the defense secretary. general allen was already set to leave afghanistan, as i mentioned. and so the confirmation hearing for general joseph dunnford, carol, the man who is set to replace allen in afghanistan is going to go ahead as planned thursday on capitol hill. it was to be the same day. so president obama also -- or from the white house president obama's also urging congress in this statement to move forward quickly with that, carol, so that, obviously, there's someone in place in afghanistan, especially as president obama's looking at these 68,000 u.s. combat troops who are set to be coming home going into 2014. >> got ya. brianna keilar from the white house. the other drama unfolding in washington, trying to avert the so-called fiscal cliff. we'll tell you what's happening this week. questions?
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24 minutes past the hour. checking our top stories now. general david petraeus' affair has prompted the investigation of another top general john allen. investigators sifting through thousands of e-mails he's accused of sending to a florida socialite. allen is the commander of all international troops in afghanistan. new satellite imagery suggests north korea is carrying out new long-range missile tests. the website 38 north has imagery that suggests the north korean regime has tested at least two long-range rockets, the most recent test in september. these tests were conducted at the same time that north korea launched a missile on april 13th that broke apart shortly after takeoff. back in washington, the lame duck session of congress officially begins today. lawmakers face a year-end deadline before spending cuts kick in and tax breaks expire. if no deal is reached to avoid the so-called fiscal cliff.
and president obama is holding meetings all week long with business leaders and members of congress and union leaders to try to hash out a deal on that fiscal cliff. joining me now to talk more about this, cnn contributor and democratic strategist maria cardona and jason johnson. good morning to you both. >> good morning. >> good morning, carol. >> i know we have to talk about the fiscal cliff, but i'm dying to ask you about this scandal because it's all anyone's talking about. jason, can you -- it's a mess. >> i love the real housewives of the pentagon. that's what we're looking at right now. it's ridiculous, and the interesting thing is, no one has actually broken a law, but what i think it is, it's a reflection of the fact that we still have a culture in the military where people can behave in this way. where you can have these sort of mistresses and people have these backdoor relationships, et cetera, et cetera. i think the whole thing is more of a reflection problems in military culture than huge
problem in national security. >> the women involved in these scandals, it astounds me, they're accomplished women, they're educated, they're not 20, right? they're old enough to know better. it's like what are you doing? >> yeah, no. absolutely, carol. i do think it's sad to look at these women and to think this is something they have to resort o to. but i think we also have to take a look at the men. i mean, it takes two to tango. and so all of these men with huge responsibilities, frankly, and i know it sounds like a cliche, but they should know better. and while i agree with jason, so far we don't think any law has been broken, but these are the men that are entrusted with our nation's highest secrets. and for them to be communicating with their mistresses on g-mail? i mean, come on. they just weren't thinking. and i think that gives us all pause about what our leaders are doing. >> well, they were thinking, but we won't go into that. >> well. >> let's switch gears and talk about the fiscal cliff.
because as you know, president obama was meeting with progressive leaders and also union leaders to talk about the fiscal cliff. what do you suppose he's saying to them, jason? >> he's saying please, please, please, i just got reelected. let's not have anyone remember 2011. look, this fiscal cliff is a result of really barack obama's weak negotiating skills with the republican party throughout 2011 which was thus far the weakest year of his presidency. he's got to convince people, progressives to make some compromises and republicans to make some compromises, otherwise what weak sort of recovery we're facing right now is going to be destroyed on january 1st. >> so i guess tomorrow he's going to meet with business leaders, maria, and business leaders haven't expressed much love for the president. what might he say to them? >> well, i think what he'll say to them is -- has nothing to do with weakness. because let's remember who won on tuesday, and let's remember the majority of the american people support what president obama was very, very clear about, what he wanted to do if
he was reelected. and that is to deal with the fiscal cliff and deal with the debt and deficit in a fair and balanced way, meaning that he would protect the middle class and not let their tax cuts go up while at the same time making sure that the wealthiest americans pay a little bit more and pay their fair share. 60% to 70% of the american people absolutely support that route, carol. a lot of them republicans. so he will go in there both today and tomorrow with a very strong hand in terms of negotiating with business people and with the republicans. >> so, jason, some wise lawmaker said the worst time to negotiate is before an election and the best time to negotiate is after an election. so maybe there's hope. >> well, look, there's hope because i think right after the election you had john boehner come in and say, look, we'll be willing to accept some revenue increases at some particular point. but like i said before, i think
it's a reflection of how weak obama was two years ago, otherwise we wouldn't be in this situation. i think the republican party realizes that they were absolutely wiped out last week, they really do need to negotiate more. barack obama needs to stand his ground for once, he never has to run for reelection again and i do think we can get a conclusion that's not going to lead us to some horrible economic apocalypse. but that's only if the republicans negotiate and barack obama remains strong. >> okay. i'm going to ask both of you for your predictions. how long will it take lawmakers to come up with a deal? maria? >> i think it will take up until the middle of december. >> jason? >> yeah, and -- >> it'll be a christmas surprise for everybody. i think they're going to be until the last minute and they're going to leave at the absolute last minute. both sides will hold out to look tough. >> but i think -- >> a box of compromise on christmas eve. >> i think republicans really understand, well, i think -- at least i hope they do, and they should listen to bill crystal
who said over the weekend he says they should give barack obama what he wants. he doesn't believe that raising taxes on the wealthiest is going to negatively impact this economy. he understands and a lot of republicans understand their brand is facing huge peril. it's facing a cliff of political oblivion of their own. >> well, we'll see. maria cardona, jason johnson, thank you for playing today, we appreciate it. >> thank you. thanks so much, carol. back to the scandal that keeps getting bigger and bigger. jill kelley seen here leaving her home yesterday is the florida socialite who sparked the fbi investigation that ultimately brought down general petraeus from his position as cia director and now she's lawyering up. >> so far, the kelley family, jill kelley herself has not come out with an official statement obviously after the development about the potentially thousands of documents that link kelley to general allen.
37-year-old jill kelley known as a volunteer and social liaison for the air force base here in tampa. now, the pentagon says it's investigating the inappropriate e-mails between kelley and general john allen. there are reports -- there are as many as 20,000 to 30,000 documents linking the two. general allen served as a deputy commander. and for a short time temporary commander at u.s. central command here in tampa from 2010 to 2012. and we know jill kelley had a social relationship and friendship with general petraeus. we don't know what kind of relationship or friendship or social connection that general allen may have had with kelley during his time here. >> that was jason lanning. all of this, of course, began with an affair with general david petraeus and paula broadwell. the fbi searched the broadwell home taking the computer and other items to be scrutinized in
the ongoing affair that brought down the head of the cia. how did the woman at the center of the scandal find herself here? our pentagon correspondent chris lawrence has that for you. >> reporter: the two women in david petraeus' life separated by less than 12 feet. holly petraeus and paula broadwell both watched his confirmation hearing as petraeus prepared to take command of the cia. the affair wouldn't begin for several months, but the attraction was there. a long time friend says petraeus' years in the war zone left him isolated with no one he could talk to candidly. so when broadwell came along, quote, he enjoyed her company, she was an attractive gal and they had things in common. but broadwell pushed back on criticism that her biography was soft on the general. >> i'm not in love with david petraeus. >> but petraeus met his wife
holly on a blind date. a family friend says she is furious over the affair. petraeus cultivated smart, competitive people around him. broadwell was a high school valedictorian and home coming queen. she graduated from westpoint, competed in the iron man triathlon and met petraeus while working on her ph.d. in harvard. >> i'm not a spokesperson for him. >> reporter: broadwell traveled to afghanistan, interviewing him for the biography she was writing. >> i think the values he upholds and tries to instill in his organizations are valuable and worth pointing out. >> reporter: a third woman blew the affair wide open. petraeus family friend jill kelley, a civilian liaison. that's kelley in this photo with her husband and holly and david petraeus. a family friend tells cnn, the couples were friends dating back to petraeus' days in florida running u.s. central command.
the friend says there was nothing romantic between kelley and petraeus, but broadwell may not have seen it that way. >> a family friend who has talked with petraeus says the ex-cia director now feels there was an element of obsession in broadwell's behavior in that she may have been trying to ward off the competition when she started to e-mail jill kelley. but again, this is someone close to david petraeus, and we've yet to hear paula broadwell's side of the story. chris lawrence, cnn, the pentagon. >> so you know what happened? one general resigns from the cia, another under investigation for sending thousands of allegedly inappropriate e-mails. not to mention the midnight fbi raids and shirtless fbi agents. what's going on here? and will anyone face charges?
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scandal involving the two generals seems to be growing by the second. but will anyone actually face charges? joining me now to talk more about the deepening scandal is a law professor at george washington university. good morning, jonathan. >> hi, carol. >> okay. hi, jonathan. i'd just like to start with each player. let's start with general david petraeus. he resigned from the cia. he says he never gave classified documents to paula broadwell. is he in the clear? >> no, he's not. it has to be investigated as to whether these supposed classified documents originated from him. it's sort of disturbing because you have not more -- very disturbing that you have this high-ranking individual that gave such access to a person writing a fawning book about him. and reports indicate she was allowed to sit in on meetings and hear classified material. and on the face of it, it's somewhat repulsive that a general would give that degree of access when journalists and
even members of congress are often denied access to information. but it becomes more serious if some of that classified information that was supposedly found on her computer originated with petraeus. it does not appear to be the case. we haven't seen allegations to that effect. then petraeus has the question about adultery. he has insisted this relationship occurred after he retired from the military and that could insulate him from a military charge. but those details have to be worked out. >> yeah. okay. let's move on to paula broadwell, federal agents raided her home last night. she voluntarily allowed them to come in, they took a computer and boxes and boxes of whatever, could be papers, could be much more. what is she facing possibly? >> well, there's questions about possession, transmitting, removal of classified evidence. those of us who have clearances are very, very careful. i never remove a document, even when i'm in a secured
environment, i make sure that -- sometimes i don't even bring in my briefcase so i don't make a mistake. it's a very carefully constructed environment. if she has such material on her computer, it raises possible federal criminal issues. now, i have to tell you that this city is awash with documents that are still marked secret but really are not. and people become very casual. and it is possible that she could have gotten this material from people around general petraeus. that's part of the problem with having this type of relationship is that the general clearly wants her to be around, clearly favors her, and the subordinates may have lost some perspective. and helped her a little too much. >> let's move on to general allen. the fbi is not investigating him, the military is. what charges could he face? >> now, he faces a very straightforward article 134 on adultery if, in fact, he had an adulterous relationship.
as a commander, he often has to mete out punishment to people who had conduct unbecoming an officer, which is another common charge. once these things become public, it's very hard to make that cat walk backwards. it's very hard to get out of this cleanly. i think he's in serious trouble in terms of his career. now, whether this would go to a so-called article 32 hearing that is to look at possible charges will have to be seen. but they don't have a lot of mercy for top-ranked officers once these allegations become public. >> well, of course, we have no idea whether he had an affair with jill kelley who is the next person i'm going to ask you about. he could have been sending her stuff to communicate with her for all we know. but let's move on to jill kelley because she's this socialite from florida. she's a volunteer, she arranges social functions for the military, she's also married, she's lawyered up. what charges could she face?
>> we like people being lawyered up in this town, i'll note. but she is supposedly -- was the recipient and or sender of tens of thousands, 20,000, 30,000 e-mails, at least that's what they're looking at. that's a daunting idea. i'm not sure how you send that. part of this problem, carol, is the internet. as a criminal defense attorney, we deal with this a lot. it is so easy to send material with a simple click. and these are often large files. and you don't know what's in it. it's a very uncautious thing to do. if any of that is classified information, there is a question as to the sender. there's also the question of whether they find anything else. as a criminal defense attorney, it's a nightmare when agents take 30,000 pages of e-mails for your client because all of us make mistakes and you're not sure what will be found. >> all right. jonathan turly, you've done a great job, magnificent job of
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confess, many of you have told a joke about jesus, and laughed at the comedy skits about the son of god. >> i've got to thank the most person in my life, lord and savior jesus christ, i could not do this without him. thank you, jesus. >> hi, everybody. >> jesus. he has risen. >> no, no, no, not really. just a quick visit. hey, everybody, take a seat. go ahead, take a seat. chill out. first of all, you're welcome. all right. yes, i jesus christ am indeed the reason you've won your past six football games. >> i knew it. >> whoa, tim, easy. hey, buddy, leave a little room for the holy ghost, okay. >> oh, paul harvey and edward wondered about that, they asked this question, in an op-ed for cnn.com and i'll read a little bit of it, quote, how is it that a figure sacred to so many americans has become the punch line of so many jokes and why is
it acceptable to poke fun at jesus when other figures are deemed off limits or there is hell to pay for mocking them? paul harvey is a professor of history at the university of colorado at colorado springs. so? did you find the answer to your question? >> well, there's a lot of reasons for that as we talk about in the article. and a lot of it has to do with our long history and pluralization of american religions. >> so tell us a bit about that history. why is it okay to joke about jesus but not other religious figures? >> the sacred is much more in contest here in part because of our legacy of religious freedom, but in part because we've had a long history of conflict over sacred imagery and words, often violent conflict. and in more recent years because of the rise of secularism, because of the rise of the culture of mockery in part, as well. it's just become more acceptable. >> is it because more and more
of us are agnostic? i mean, why is it? is it -- do we still believe in jesus yet we joke about him? is it the other way around? >> well, it's funny if you read the comments on our cnn belief blog, you'll see that people are engaging in arguments with each other saying our argument has but humor is the way we deal with these kinds of conflicts. and as we say in the piece, in part, it's our way we don't kill each other. >> well, interestingly, i was talking to one of the employees here at cnn, kathy, and she said her minister, she belongs to a methodist church. her minister brought a clip in from talladega nights, the movie, where they had a joke about jesus in it and he actually played that in church to get people's attention and then they talked about jesus. >> yes. and that's just part of the culture of religion using popular culture to make people
feel more at ease. we're just a country that does that more now than would have been the case in the past in religious institutions. >> so it's not necessarily a bad thing to joke about jesus. sometimes it sparks conversation and sometimes those conversations are meaningful. >> sometimes they can be meaningful, and sometimes there are ways that we say when we have political conflicts such as we just had, some of which have to do with religion, it's our way of defusing that conflict or dealing with it in a way that is acceptable. >> i know you're not a biblical scholar, but do you suppose jesus would be upset at the jokes? >> well, jesus uses lots of humor in the bible, so no, i don't think so. >> paul harvey, thank you for joining us this morning. a professor of history at colorado springs, and if you want to read the piece, it's on our belief blog, cnn.com/belief. victoria's secret's fashion faux pas has upset the native
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my meineke. victoria's secret knows how to get your attention. but this time, they're finding they have to say i'm sorry. for getting your attention to this particular model with this particular outfit on if you could call it an outfit. showbiz correspondent is in los angeles. good morning. >> good morning, carol, i like that. you're right too, it's little strips of clothing. they've gotten a lot of attention over this. but this is not the kind of attention they want. last week at a fashion show in new york, victoria's secret model who you see there wore a feathered head dress on the runway. this sparked backlash. victoria's secret has issued an apology on the company's facebook page saying, quote,
we're sorry that the head dress has upset individuals, the outfit will be removed from the broadcast. this show's going to air on december 4th on cbs. and carol, the model in question also apologized on her twitter page saying she supports victoria's secret decision to remove this clip from the broadcast. >> okay. we must talk about donald trump in the big petition. >> we must. you know what? macy's has a really long relationship with donald trump, but there's ea a petition that is urging macy's to tell trump, you're fired. now, this petition, a few minutes ago had more than 464,000 signatures and they're saying to macy's they feel like they have an obligation to be socially responsible and that donald trump does not reflect the magic of macy's. now cher tweeted that she is not going to shop at macy's anymore because of donald trump. and donald trump released a statement to cnn. they questioned the legitimacy of this website.
they also say their quote long standing relationship with macy's and look forward to many years of continued success. and donald trump does say he's having success because he tweeted saying his fragrance is flying off the shelves. at macy's. >> of course he doesn't believe the petitioners are real, they didn't produce their birth certificates. >> you better watch out. he's going to at you on twitter and i don't want any part of donald trump. >> bring it on. thank you so much. one general resigns, now another general is the focus of questionable e-mails. will he be the next to step down?