tv Piers Morgan Tonight CNN November 18, 2012 9:00pm-10:00pm PST
>> you never did your own stunts, did you? >> i did a couple of the love scenes. >> this is piers morgan tonight. good evening, the re-election celebrations seem a long time ago for book, one week after defeat egg governor romney, staring down reporters white house fielding questions on the petraeus scandal, benghazi, the fiscal cliff and a long couple weeks with many waiting for answers. jay tapper is an abc correspondent. jay, welcome. >> thank you, great to be here. >> almost perfect timing, this book. discussing before we went on the air that it's -- it concern he is two great generals. mcchrystal and petraeus and they are both gone before the book has hit the streets come you have ever imagined when you were thought embedded with these troops that would happen? >> no the book mainly about the grunts on the ground but does
look a lot at how people like president bush, president obama, secretaries of defense and how these celebrity generals, how their decisions end up affecting these guys at this very vulnerable outpost at the bottom of three steep mountains just 14 miles from the pakistan border. one of the things that emerges in the book that mcchrystal and his aides are obsessed with the idea of the celebrity general, as petraeus has become. petraeus, if you read his press clips, believe he was the savior of the war in iraq. they wanted mcchrystal to be that and there is this hubris that takes over celebrity generals. >> hence the interviews with "rolling stone," hence the biography petraeus did, which in the end brought him down in many way, putting anymore contact with this woman. >> they start to believe their own press clippings that is the danger. >> start to play the media game in a game you and i know normally ends in tears, doesn't it?
>> we're a fickle bunch, aren't we, piers? one day we are nice to you, the next we are no mcchrystal, from the beginning of the time he was appointed to the head of the forces in afghanistan, is from the very moment of his confirmation hearing, he and the white house are in this back and forth. long before the "rolling stone" story with michael hastings, getting his aides to bash the administration, it has disastrous consequence for the men at the bottom of this hill. >> must be a huge distraction all this, my brothers fought out there you don't want of the generals involved in scandal and mayhem and media stuff. it is just a total distraction, isn't it? >> it is. i have to say, i mean, with the petraeus story breaking, we had a book launch saturday night, a lot of the soldiers came, moms, gold star moms, gold star wives, when petraeus was mentioned, it
was just this incredulousness, these men is informed an area of the country where they would not see a woman for months because every time they went into an afghan village, the woman would hide or be hidden from them h >> boss having an affair. >> got so bad, a scene in the book, like they are on a planet where women do not exist anymore a female helicopter pie throat would buzz over them every now and then they would all run to the communications shed to listen to her voice, they were convinced she were absolutely gorgeous. meanwhile what is petraeus doing in afghanistan a fuel years later? it is madness. >> there is a theory that, look, we had great generals, macarthur, patton, eisenhowers, jfk, clinton, so on, all had affairs. modern digital era unraveling all this stuff that is the problem? what do you say that? >> i don't think the idea, the problem is that general petraeus had an affair. the idea and the big problem is that he was director of the cia and he walked right into one of the most blackmailable
situations that you can have. good that the fbi found out about it before the russians or the chinese. that is the problem. not that he is a general mess egg around and certainly even though according to the uniform code of military justice, that's not allowed, that's not what the press is focused on. the press is focused on the director of the cia having this problem. >> perhaps the biggest story today is benghazi, blowing up again. republicans, john mccain and lindsey graham and others pushing very, very hard now, getting very vicious in their rhetoric toward ambassador rice and so on. what do you think, at the central plank of this do you believe ambassador rice is at fault or is she as barack obama said, she was merely passion on -- passing on intelligence? she was not a key player in all of this, therefore, if he wants to make her secretary of state, he can do it. what do you think? >> first of all, i was substituting for george stephanopoulos that sunday as host of "this week." we were trying to get secretary of state hillary clinton, all of the shows were trying to get secretary of state hillary clinton to talk about benghazi.
for whatever reason, she accident go out them put out dr. susan rice are the u.n. ambassador. very interesting that today, president obama says, you know, susan rice had nothing to do with benghazi, i don't know what she was doing on the show. >> didn't she make her safe key player or a person put up by the administration to launch the defense. she could have said, we believe there are a number of possible theories but she didn't take that option. >> she was a good soldier did what the administratn told her to do. she read the talking points. she had more -- >> did she act in good faith, do you think? >> i can't get inside her brain. i don't -- i think that she was repeating the intelligence and what the white house told her to say. what she was saying is similar to what everyone in the white house and the state department was saying at the time. so, i don't think that she was doing anything other than what she had been instructed to say. the big question not whether this was one of the prominent theories, it was all a spontaneous protest from the
anti-muslim video, it was, obviously, one of the prominent theories but on september 14th, the white house briefing, i said to jay carney there are other people in your government who say it is probably not the video, that it is something else in benghazi and you whatever reason it seems like i had better intelligence and sources in the government than the people in the white house did, 'cause they were leaning heavily into this videotape theory. >> as john mccain would have us believe, and he has got very strong point about this, it may well just have been the narrative for the white house running to the election of we are defeating al qaeda is not helped if it looks like an al qaeda type of resurgence was up against the ambassador in benghazi and indeed led to his death? >> without question, as somebody who was covering the benghazi story in the months leading up to the election and also covering the election, it was so politicized with the white house and the administration in a defensive crouch because they thought every word they said would be twisted and unfairly
attacked and didn't want interfere about the positive narrative about al qaeda and republicans put out conspiracy theories, some of them not rooted in any facts or evidence, that it was tough to report on this because both sides are not acting normally you as one would hope they would. >> jay fascinating book, "the outpost, untold story of american valor, a rivet egg read about this extraordinary battle but more about the people on the ground doing the hard stuff for their country. >> thanks, piers, good to be here. coming up next, a woman who has seen her fair share of fallen idols, kitty kelley on the petraeus sex scandal and her new book on the kennedys fam lot. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye.
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kitty kelley has written biographies about everyone, oprah frank sinatra, [ inaudible ] kitty kelley's latest book "capturing camelot," unseen pictures of the kennedys. welcome, kitty, how are you? >> thanks, piers. >> i can't think of a better person to talk to about this petraeus scandal erupting with you every hour, some new bombshell, the fbi agent sending shirtless pictures. >> so sad, the end of someone's career. there's something missing though. there's something missing. i don't know what it is. is it just e-mails that set this off?
>> that is what makes it an extraordinary downfall, really, that's what it comes down to a couple of women swapping bitchy comments. >> the e-mails, as i understand, were anonymous. they went from broadwell to this jill kelley, right and took issue with her coziness with general petraeus. it sound does sound like two women. but we now have two generals that are involved. you know, the military is held to a higher standard than say someone like frank sinatra. a higher standard almost than our politician. >> it has to be. funny enough you can the people that feel least sorry for david petraeus are the people inside the military because they understand the importance of this kind of behavior in terms of discipline and everything
else. one over the lower ranks caught having an affair, they would be straight out the door. >> in the military code, if he had done this while he was in uniform, that would be a criminal violation within the military code. so they, themselves, hold their people to a higher standard. you are right that people the civilians, are saying isn't it a shame toad give up his job, but the military is quite tough on this. >> a tragedy for him a great general, in many ways. let's talk about paula broadwell. she is a biographer who wrote this book about him. it was seen by many people as pretty sycophantic in the end. what do you think of the relationship that -- between a writer and the subject, if they are so close you never got within 100 yards of sinatra, but still wrote an amazing book about him document think it is healthy for a biographer to be that close to their subject? >> no.
i believe firm any writing an unauthorized biography, which is you do it without the subject's cooperation and that means you don't give up editorial control. she wrote an authorized biography, she had to give general petraeus complete control. i don't think it was a burned on her part or his part, but nevertheless, doesn't make for a more honest, open kind of biography. >> we had a fascinating debate you michael hastings came on from buzzfeed and "rolling stone" and hammered petraeus there is a real school of thought now that whilst he is every man's hero on one side, and a lot of people say what happened in iraq and afghanistan, these weren't the acts of military heroism. they all went pretty horribly wrong, another view. >> and it's a legitimate view. but it's a view that also should be taken by the mainstream
media. >> i met him at party earlier this year and he was extremely charming and willing to talk and i was quite surprised he talked. >> that openness. >> applauded him for. that is how he managed to control the mystique, if you like. >> he brought great credentials to the table. he was the intellectual general, right? he was schooled at west point. had a ph.d. from princeton. >> i'm a big fan of petraeus, a brilliant general and a tragedy for him. what would have happened, for instance, jfk, what would have happened to jfk if e-mail and text messaging had existed? >> yes, although i do remember a wonderful story about jfk during the campaign when he was running for senate in 1957, someone brought in a picture and said,
they are prepared to use this picture of you with this woman answered looked at that time and he said, mmm, i remember her well. he took it in stride but he was very, very lucky. >> those guys from that era, because this digital trail that now comes -- >> also the women that fell in love, had affairs with jfk, mostly fell in love with him. and yet, the affairs that he had with white house secretaries would have been considered so inappropriate for a boss. >> should it matter, kitty, you have written about all these great characters, sinatra and jfk and others, they are all flawed but they are all, in their own way, geniuses. avenues political genius. sinatra was a musical genius. does it matter if they have affairs? >> i think that is such a great question. part of me says there really should be a divide between the public man and the private man. notice we are talking men, not
women. it is always men that do this on the other hand, that isn't the way of the world right now. and we do hold our politicians, especially our presidents to a higher standard. >> they do, but there is hypocrisy circumstance look at bill clinton. he is one of the most revered and popular ex-presidents in history and you he was a pretty naughty boy as president, you know? i don't think the american public are quite as puritanical to people they linings as to people maybe they don't like so much. >> like whom? >> eliot spitzer would come to mind. >> that wasn't exactly an affair. that was a business arrangement, right? a little different, i think. but you are right. i think the public cuts a lot of soft core for those they love.
>> "capturing camelot," a guy called stanley, an official photographer for the kennedys. >> he really wasn't, piers, he was a real old-time photojournalist who had immense access to the kennedys. >> but wasn't official? >> no. no. >> they just let him in. >> they let him in and they let him in for the reasons we were just talking about. they -- he had a very symbiotic relationship with the kennedys. he made them look good and they gave him access. >> they understood the power of this kind of image. i mean, some beautiful picture, a stunning book. some of these pictures are really so touching, haven't been seen before of him with his little son and very, very moving but also sends the right image of this great family man when, of course you can the rate was pretty different. he was a family man but he had lots of time for other families. >> that's very true.
that is true. but he was a great father. >> and a great president and a brilliant communicator. why it always comes back with petraeus, you know, has the nation lost a brilliant general, a brilliant cia director over an affair? should it matter? people take a moral view. i don't know. it's difficult call. you know, some of my favorite leaders in history, jfk, clinton, i would add petraeus. >> how about churchill? >> i don't think churchill ever had affairs. >> never did? no. >> he drank a lot. >> he drank a lot. he was no stranger to brandy. >> kitty, a pleasure to talk to you. called "capturing camelot." it is a beautiful book. lovely pictures. thank you. >> thank you very much. when we come back, the man who has very strong opinions about just about everything, especially the petraeus scandal, director oliver stone. [ male announcer ] citi turns 200 this year.
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i have a quick update. diplomatic efforts are intensifying to pit putt an to end deadly fighting between israel and hamas, after international calls for restraint, preparations for an all-out war have taken place. 65 palestinians and three israelis killed in five days of air attacks. hamas says ten members of the same family were massacred during an israeli air strike in gaza. israel says it was targeting a top militant. air sirens screamed out in tel aviv for a third straight day but two rockets headed for israel's largest city were intercepted. dozens more rockets were fired from gaza into israel, including one that hit a town, injuring an unspecified number of people. meanwhile, egypt and president mohamed morsi says discussions are under way in cairo and arab league foreign ministers will visit on tuesday. he said the u.s. is working with all parties. mr. obama made history becoming
the first u.s. president to visit myanmar. the tri spent most of the past four months aboard the international space station. during the trip williams broke the record for time spent space walking. she clocked 50 hours and 40 minutes. the state department is updating how it deployed security around the globe. forces deployed will be monitored so they can help during emergencies in needed. the change comes over how the obama administration handled the crisis in benghazi. i'm don lemon keeping you informed. and a telepresence room in brazil.
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challenges accepted view of american history. oliver stone joins me now. welcome back. >> thank you. >> i loved our last encounter. we had to bleep a few of your more outrageous comments but that's why i enjoyed it. let's talk about petraeus. unlike many people casting their verdict on him now, you did that before all this came out and you were pretty scathing about it. why were you not a fan of general petraeus? >> well, the american media has come up with this narrative that he's the american hero who betrayed by the woman, he takes the fall, it's a classic. it sells well, it's a good soap opera but it's not true. i see no evidence of his heroism. there has been no success in iraq, the so-called surge has been overhyped by the media as a success when in fact, iraq was trashed almost from the beginning to the end and it was in worse shape when he left. he didn't leave it well. and then when he went to afghanistan, first of all, he conned obama into adding 30,000 troops it was into afghanistan with a plan that he would win with this counterinsurgency program.
where is it? where are the results? they're nonexistent. afghanistan is worse off. he's supervised the predator explosion and the missiles and into not only pakistan and also afghanistan and he's exacerbated the entire region and the people who are there are going to hate us more so for civilian damage, collateral damage. on top of it, you know, he's built up this reputation. first of all, as a military man, i really think he's overdoing it as a showman because he goes in front of congress to talk about the counterinsurgencies wearing, if you noticed, the ribbons grow every year. he's got now like a regular fruit salad up here. amazing amount. and it's disgusting. general marshall, one of the greatest heroes of world war ii, is famous for being a modest man, going in front of congress and wearing hardly anything. >> he had this reputation of king david. >> very much so. >> a lot of people in the forces. didn't always mean it as a compliment. meant as he was slightly regal. >> america values success. what's success in iraq and
afghanistan? can you tell me? he's left many weeping widows out there and it's not worked. counter insurgency, our involvement in a foreign country, vietnam, iraq, afghanistan, it doesn't work. we go in, have a lot of money, make a lot of temporary friends. they know we're leaving and when we leave, which they know we will leave, they value their lives. so they are our temporary friends. >> were you surprised when petraeus got the cia job? >> i was worried about it because he's created again -- the military crossing into the cia is very dangerous and he's -- obviously, it's a political job but he's made it into a paramilitary force. he's adopted the predator missiles into the cia. they're using them as drone attacks as well as the pentagon. who knows what else he's up to, but certainly his whole concept of counterinsurgency violates the sovereignty of every nation on earth. though it's a very dangerous position we're putting ourselves into weapon-wise.
we can talk about untold history, where we get into the issue of where we're going, america -- >> i'll come to that. on petraeus, when the scandal broke about him having a mistress, is that grounds enough -- >> in england, it is. >> -- for him to resign? >> in england it is. our puritan morality dictates it. > that's true. >> certainly, it's not the reasons i would like to see him take a fall. it reminds me of the monica lewinsky scandal. stuff like that. it's tabloid. you love that in england. but here in america, the truth is he should have been long ago investigated far more severely by our media and he got a free pass because of the fruit salad and the congressional -- and in general, the entire american nation, the congress especially, has caved into this military worship of technology. i've seen that in the last 20 years grow. in the '90s and 2000s, we seem to give a pass always to the military. >> since i get over here about the military, it's almost impossible to criticize anyone
in the military because there's such patriotism towards it, and i get that, but it is particularly pronounced in america, it is almost seen as utter disloyalty, if not treachery, to criticize any military man or woman. that's dangerous, isn't it? >> it leads back to rome. go back to the roman empire. the pretorian guard. emperors would pay homage and favors and pay them more money to be loyal to that faction. eventually, the roman guards, military, became more important than the citizenry. of course, they didn't hold up the empire. they are all over the place but they couldn't hold back the barbarians and so forth. it doesn't work. you don't bribe the military. and, frankly, we could be in a position where things get more chaotic and there could be another terrorist attack and this concept of american security is so violated that the military could act in a very negative way in an old-fashioned
way to restore order. and you end up with a general petraeus running the country by certain form of dictatorship. >> take a short break. let's come back and talk about barack obama being re-elected. and also historically, where you put him in context, relation to the untold history of the united states and about this fascinating new project you have. after the break. ♪ introducing the new 13-inch macbook pro, ♪ with the stunning retina display. ♪ for the pro in all of us.
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we live much of our lives in a fog, all of us. but i would like my children to have access to something that looks beyond what i call the tyranny of now. we watch the media, everyone talks about that thing. the news of the day, and the subconscious, the important stuff that's going on is being neglected. >> it's a fascinating project.
i will come to that soon. i want to talk to you about obama who got re-elected. you've been critical of him too previously. on balance, are you pleased he won the election? >> i'm pleased he won the election. i voted for him, it was a better choice than romney. but both men are operating inside of the dichotomy of the american empire's economy is getting worse. now we just accept it. no one in the argument, in the debate ever questioned why we have to have such a big military. why we have to have foreign bases, 800 plus bases. and why we -- on top of it, you can talk about what obama said, america is the indispensable nation again. we've heard this rhetoric over the years. it's very dangerous. we're not indispensable. not god appointed. we should be humble in the face of the prosperity we've had. we've become like the yankees a
bit. a little arrogant. and we're buying what we need. you mentioned petraeus earlier. i said, maybe the concept of using money in afghanistan and iraq to bribe the sunnis not to join us or bribe the shiites to bribe. it's a dirty thing that we do abroad. people in america don't know about the dirty wars. >> when you searched this, how many military conflicts has america been engaged in, that you think are justified? >> in terms of conflicts, you mean, you're talking about little things like grenada that become big things? >> any kind of warfare over the last several years. >> i think it's about seven or eight major ones since vietnam, korea, korea was unnecessary either. vietnam starts the beginning of a decline economically in the country and the labor markets. where the richest americans have reached a level which is completely disproportionate to the rest of americans. >> what was the point of doing this?
why did you want to make this series? >> boy, it started four and a half years ago, it's a culmination of the themes in my films, i've been exploring, as i grew up. i found out more about life. i grew up conservative, very republican. with the belief i was doing -- fighting communism. and i saw the reputation of patterns. by the time the 1980s roll around and reagan comes in and starts talking hostile actions in central america and messing with -- interfering with people's revolutions in those countries. i went down there, did a movie called "salvador." >> great movie. >> i saw american troops, like i had been a green kid in vietnam. do you remember vietnam? they literally said to me, i really don't know what happened in vietnam. the history of vietnam has been denied to them. >> it's a fascinating history lesson, because you tell it so vividly. not just your generation, a very
interesting way of doing it. but the images that you use, the video you use makes it a compelling history lesson. >> by the way, it's -- >> you will learn about the events, even if you don't necessarily agree with your take on it. >> i learned a lot. didactic. kids are board with the history because they think they know the end. world war ii, we start it tonight. we see it from three sides, britain, russia, the u.s. it's a whole other ballgame when you look at three interests. russian eyes, english eyes, chinese eyes. if you can see history and have empathy for others, other than yourself, you broaden your compassion, and you broaden -- we become a member of the world. of the global community. and this is what obama has not done. now, he's basically operating as an outlier now. you asked about our criticism, it's couched in the context of 120 years of history.
we started in 1900, we end now. it's a lot. and we start -- we mentioned woodrow wilson, world war ii, saying america is the savior of the world, remember, after versailles. we show that this mission to be a global policeman starts a long time ago. but it certainly grows dangerous after the atomic bomb in 1945. >> it's a fascinating project. thoroughly enjoy the book. it's a riveting history lesson. you bring this stuff to life. and i commend you for it. >> thank you. >> the untold history of the united states is on showtime. the book is available now. thumping good read it is too. ucy new mascara. clump crusher...crusher. 200% more volume. zero clumps. new clump crusher from easy, breezy, beautiful covergirl. since ameriprise financial was founded back in 1894, they've been committed to putting clients first. helping generations through tough times. good times.
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again. but please, call me roger. >> i can't. americans wouldn't stand for it. now, you appeared in seven of the bond movies. >> mm-hmm. >> yet, i heard you in an interview earlier today saying that you felt "skyfall," the best bond movie ever. >> the box office proves it what i said this morning, i finished this book "bond on bond" about four, five months ago. before it went to press, i would have loved to have seen "skyfall." i would have loved to put another chapter n >> you think it was good? >> he is tremendous. wonderful director, sam mendes. >> let's watch a clip from "skyfall". here. >> he does his own stunts, apparently. you never did that did you?
>> i did a couple of the love scenes. >> i always think with all the bonds, sean connery would win a fight, you went into a bar and a big fight broke out you sean connery would probably be the hardest. i think you would pull the most women. i think they would gravitate to that little twinkling, raised eyebrow. >> sean was the killer and i was a lover. i now say that daniel craig is the real killer. >> of all the bond girls, the seven movies you made if could i trap you on a desert island with one of them, i know it's like choosing your favorite baby, if i can put you on an island the rest of your life with one bond girl, who would it be? >> um, i'd actually go with my wife. >> complete copout, sir roger. only doing that because she's watching this.
>> she may not be watching it because i can make sure she doesn't. >> let me rephrase it, if it was with your wife's permission -- >> if it was -- ha ha ha. which i know is highly unlikely. it would have to be one of the swedish lady like maude adams. >> really? >> i can say i love you in swedish. >> bag james bond, two of the most exclusive boys clubs in the world. someone surviving, living presidents of the united states and five of them, all six men played james bond are alive. >> you call this a living? >> what is it like to be james bond?
i mean, to walk around with people knowing you're bond? >> but you get sort of used to it after the you've said, "bond, james bond" 400 times. >> people make you say that? >> of course. >> everywhere you go? >> every interview. >> how many women do you think you have seduced because you played james bond the last 50 years? >> been married four times. [ laughter ] >> the mere fact i've been married four times, sir roger, suggests that -- >> yes. >> you had a way with the ladies over the years. >> well, i've -- i'm very -- find it very difficult to say no. >> you also married very volatile women. it seemed like every time you got out of the fire, you put yourself straight back into the frying pan. >> it's not quite true. it's just that i am one of those people that i don't argue. it annoys, i think, ladies, if you don't answer back. >> so you always just this nice,
calm figure? >> i try to be. inside, i'm churning. i have to take nexium every morning for my stomach. >> have you been what british people would describe as a bit of naughty boy over the years, would you say? >> depends what the definition of "naughty" is. >> what would your definition be? >> i suppose getting drunk, falling over and waking up in strange hotels. >> do you have any regrets in your 85 years? >> i regret i found stoppable again. >> i always get the feeling with you you seem very self-aware man who has really enjoyed his life. for all the good and bad that's happened, you've enjoyed your life. >> i've been terribly lucky.
i don't know why i should have been selected to have the light shone upon them. i've always kept working. i've had many happy moments. >> are you surprised the bond franchise is so successful. >> you didn't hold the book up. >> are you surprised it's even more successful than it was 50 years ago? >> no, not really. i know they have never cheated the audiences. they spend the money and put it on the screen. in the days when bond started travel is expensive. people didn't go to all those places. they would see it on the screen.
they saw things they didn't see in their every day life. >> did you take much interest in the election? >> an election, really? >> are you a fan of barack obama? >> i'm not going to answer anything political because you're not allowed united nations. >> i think whatever you think of obama domestically in america, but i think abroad obama has restored a little bit of america's reputation. that's the sense i get. do you feel that when you travel the world? >> yes. i think he, like reagan makes
americans proud to be american. >> if i could give you five minutes back of your life to relive the greatest moment of your life, what would you choose? >> i suppose being with my parents when i did something that was worthwhile. >> what do you think they would have made of the way you ended up? >> my mother would be grateful because she always said don't you think you should get a regular job, son. >> your dad was policeman. what would he have made of it? >> very happy. if it hasn't been for them i couldn't have been an actor. they had to support me while i was studying. i was studying.
you know, when i was abroad, during the war. there were 16 girls and four boys in each class. >> that's basically been the story of your life ever since, certainly, sir roger? >> outnumbered. >> well, i can talk to you all day, as you know. a fascinating encounter. bond on bond, reflections on 50 years of james bond movies. the great sir roger moore. flying the flag for britain around the world, for unicef and everything else. it's been a real honor. >> thank you. >> roger moore, a true legend. and we'll be right back. i have a cold... i took dayquil, but i still have a runny nose. [ male announcer ] dayquil doesn't treat that. huh? [ male announcer ] alka-seltzer plus rushes relief to all your worst cold symptoms, plus it relieves your runny nose. [ sighs ] thank you! [ male announcer ] you're welcome. that's the cold truth! not in this economy. we also have zero free time, and my dad moving in. so we went to fidelity.
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ah, that was good. too bad nobody could hear me. geico. fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. josh went to spend the night with friends. i had no clue they were coming to burbank. right about here is where josh was. where the raft cap sized. and he went down. very hurt for me to believe that just like that my son had drown and he was gone. my father, he instilled in us
the fear of water and so, i in turn didn't take my son around water. children don't have to drown. my name is wanda butts. i provide water safety skills. african-american children are three times more likely to drown than white children. that's why we started the josh project, to educate families about the importance of being water safe. >> take the ring and throw it right at the victim. >> many parents, they don't know how to swim. >> he was afraid of the water. he was the first in my family to learn how to swim. he's come a long way from not liking water in his face, to getting dunked under. >> you like it? all right. >> i'm so happy to see that so many of them have learned how to swim. good job! that's one life we saved