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tv   Reliable Sources  CNN  June 1, 2014 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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being investigated over allegations of insider trading. the fbi is looking into trades mickelson made back in 2011 that may have been made based on information that wasn't made public at the time. mickelson says he did nothing wrong. that's it for now. imer i can mcpike. "reliable sources" with brian seltzer begins now. good morning from washington. i'm brian felter and it's time for "reliable sources." we have an a-list line-up for you. hillary clinton's campaign is about to begin. i'm not talking about that one, i'm talking about the campaign to sell copies of her new book "hard choices." but really, aren't these campaigns one and the same as the whole country wonders if she's going to run for president? at the moment, book sales are a subsidy for polls. americans have ordered so many
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copies of hillary clinton's book ahead of time that they've recently ordered 1 million copies. like all things clinton, this campaign seems to be highly correspohoreographed with leak leak in the book. there was mother's day, and then this tuesday author's note and on friday the chapter on benghazi. it all looks, well, political. clinton even came out with comments on her world view one day before obama was giving a major speech on his world view. what we're seeing here is a c confluence of business and politics. so i wondered how should the press treat this pr operation? let me bring in two experts on that, two authors. first here in new york, carl bernstein. one half of the famed bernstein pair he is also author of the book "women in charge." and the author of "this town."
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mark, let me start with you here in the studio. do you think the press should be treating this book campaign as if this is the start of the presidential campaign? >> oh, yeah, because the clinton people are. this has become a tradition of melding the selling of a book to and that's why mid-career cases, memoirs, and you might say this is a late career memoir, tend to be more cautiously written and marketed. >> hillary seems to have this down to a science. >> it is. it's planned like a science, it's planned with a normandy level precision, and these leaks -- if you call them leaks -- have been thought out, they've been parcelled and we've seen them a few weeks prior. >> do you see this as a start of a campaign for the presidency? >> of course, unless the book turns out to be a great memoir that goes deep into self-evaluation and
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introspection, which the last book by hillary clinton was decidedly not, and i don't think we can expect this one to be, either. the term normandy is exactly right. the presidential campaign is like a war. it's fought on a huge battlefield with great dangers everywhere and all kinds of strategy required. >> mark, you mentioned leaks. whether these are leaks or not, you and i, we talked about the "new york times." the it seems like their leaking out the excerpts themselves before reporters can go buy a book in the bookstore and tell us what's in it. >> it's strategic, it's taking control of the narrative, as we say in the smartie pants world. clearly they had a mother's day leak to vogue and so forth. look, i mean, that's fine. i don't think a lot of this stuff has been that interesting, frankly, and maybe there's this vast bipartisan conspiracy of
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titillated book buyers who would disagree with me. >> you haven't seen those people? >> i haven't. >> you wrote last week, the fundamental paradox of politician' books is that the more interesting they are to read, the more harmful they can be to the author if he wants another job in office. >> i think this is probably the more hillary clinton in private that we don't normally see when she's as straight-jacketed as a politician should be when she has big plans for the future. >> carl, what would you like to see in this book? >> introspection. her previous book had very little. my buy iography talks about her real life. the things that concerned her as a child as a wife, as a
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politician. that's what we want to look at, a person's whole life, whole career, what goes deepest? and it would be great if we got this in this memoir. as i said, i think it's very unlikely that we're going to get that. i would hope that we get glimpses of it, and sometimes inadvertently we do get that in a politician's memoir, and certainly she's more than a conventional politician. >> i think it's notable we learned this week she'll be going on fox news to promote her book. she'll give a joint interview about a week after it comes out. diane sawyer on abc has the first interview, she'll do a lot of interviews, and she'll go on fox. that's her effort to reach out to the people who may need some.
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i would ask hillary clinton. i would try to go to the personal and the big questions about who she is, and deeper questions such as i asked or proposed on the spur of the moment. something that might give her pause to think for a second in an unusual way. >> let me ask you that same question. if you could pose one question to her, what would it be? >> i just think, if i could be
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completely purell, i'm genuineuy interested what she thought of the monica lewinsky piece. i thought it went to what political women think, and i would be curious on a purely personal level how she read that. >> and she's not been asked before the book comes out, so diane sawyer's interview will be the first to do that. >> i imagine she will. >> that question also goes deep into hillary clinton's past when she was the wife of the governor of arkansas and there were allegations made about bill clinton and other women, she even went so far as a lawyer at the rose law firm to interview one of the women that this is relevant to who she is. i keep coming back to that phrase, who she is, her
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evolution. and the question of lewinsky is a connection that goes all the way back through her marriage, through her career. it's uncomfortable, but the way she has regarded and been the person who, on numerous -- at least four huge occasions that we know of, has saved bill clinton's political career by salvaging the women he's been accused -- accused is not a good term -- of having relations with, but this has been an enterprise that has been integri integral to bill clinton's survival and to their story. but again, the clintons are amazing. we've never seen anything quite like them and we need some context about their whole story which partly is of a great love affair. that's one thing that if you really come to understand, i think, bill and hillary clinton,
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you come away with all of the messiness of the relationship and in public. this is really a love story as well on a great number of levels. >> carl bernstein, mark levovich, thanks for being with me. >> thank you. >> we've got lots today. departures from the white house and edward snowden's big tv interview. also this important question for every interviewer, every blogger out there. is the media glorifying a mass murderer by showing his self-made youtube video over and over again? we'll tackle that one after the break. this is the first power plant in the country to combine solar and natural gas at the same location.
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we could call this next segment to air or not to air. the chill entering view of elliot rodger that was taped a
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few hours before he went on a rampage has been wired across the world now. but there are journalists who are opposed to showing his face or showing his name. anderson cooper is one of them. >> i don't believe in showing his name or his picture. i believe people should remember your son and others who lost their lives. >> anderson cooper said this when he reported on the movie theater shooting. this raises a big "reliable sources" question. should we as journalists decide you don't have the right to hear or see this guy? me and my producers talked about this beforehand and decided we should show rodger. but it is a fair question. are we doing the right thing? let me bring in two experts with
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very different opinions on this. long-time media politics analyst jeff greenfield, who is in santa barbara, and dave collin, the author of "column binebine." thanks for joining me. >> thanks. >> you have always avoided saying these suspects' names, including this past week, with the shooting in california. why do you do that and why should the rest of the media do it as well? >> well, because i think we've had 15 years of what i'm calling the columbine effect of this horror that's going on and on and actually seems to be growing. we could stop it tomorrow if we wanted to. the answer is simple. it's not easy or even desirable, but if we completely stopped covering these, there was a complete blackout that would go away. if there's no audience, there's no reason to perform. i'm not proposing to do that. i think that would be a terrible thing that would be a huge d
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dereliction by the media. but if that's sort of the extreme over here of complete blackout and doing nothing on the opposite side, i think we need to find someone in there where we selectively look at ways where we can diminish the killer, we can sort of take away part of the stage and the voice and the reason for doing it without doing significant harm to our duty or to the public understanding. >> jeff, what do you make of this? >> i understand the impulse. i think it's an effort somehow to take away from these killers what we think they might want. i think it is ultimately futile because in this day and age, unlike 40 years ago, there were no gatekeepers. 40 years ago, a couple wire services, television networks, a few newspapers could have effectively shut this out. you can't do this anymore. if this video as seen, say, by parents of troubled kids or by
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law enforcement officers can stop future killings, that in and of itself is a very important reason why people have to see this. i understand the point about the pornography of violence and the exploitation of it, and i'm sympathetic to what david says. but the most important thing for me is to surrealize how many clues were missed here as it often is, and so if somebody out there has seen this video and said, you know what? i saw something like this from my own son, you don't want to not have that happen. >> dave, what do you make of that gatekeeper's argument? i think the internet changes the calculus here. i watched all those youtube videos on my own. no middle man from the media to stop me or encourage me to do so. what do you make of it that the internet changes the calculus? >> i think it changes it for the better. that's why i'm for this, because we don't have gatekeepers. i would have a problem in a world if this were 40 or 50 years ago, and you lived in
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peoria and the peoria journal register, i think, is the paper there in town didn't cover it, you would sort of be out of luck. you might be able to get it on tv or something else, but that was sort of your local world. you probably didn't have the "new york times." it printed in your town. you definitely didn't have the web to go search on it. now it's a completely different world. i'm not asking for or advocating any kind of blackout. i'm with you guys on mostly what you're saying. i think people should be able to study these people in depth to watch the videos. i wrote a book and spent ten years on columbine and getting the motives. i want those tapes that still aren't out, i want those available to the public. because anyone can google this guy and look at those videos, that video when i watched it, had already had over 2 million views. i think that's great interest of the web. i think giving him what is viewed by most people as sort of the glamour of television is unnecessary.
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i don't think the clip played at the beginning of the segment showing clips of his face did any public good. i don't think anyone learned anything from it. i think we've all seen him enough times and there was no audio played with it so we didn't hear what he was saying. i think that's superfluous and unnecessary and gives him the flam glamour without any kind of value coming from it. >> should there be a period of time after which time we don't show the video, we don't say the name? >> i don't know. look, i think david makes a good point and this is one of my problems, if i may be blunt, about cable news in general, throwing video up as wallpaper just for the sake of filling the camera. but i would like to make one point. it may seem a little off but it struck me. as i was researching for a book i did about kennedy, i read a lot about oswald. and the more i read about oswald, the more compelling the case for his guilt was. to understand his background,
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his propensity to violence, how he was raised, his delusions of grandeur. historically to me in a country where most people still think there was a conspiracy, this would be information decades after you would want to know. again, these impulses toward trying to figure out some way to take away from a killer what we think this killer was after is understandable. i just have some skepticism about whether or not a future madman with guns is going to say, you know what, they're not going to show my picture so maybe i will stay my hand. i don't think that's the point david was making. i think this is an effort that is widespread to try to figure out some rational way, other than the obvious, like keeping guns out of the hands of madmen and telling mental health professionals that privacy doesn't trump the public safety, some way to prevent a killer from getting what we think he wants. as i say, absolutely a noble gesture. how much will contribute to
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future safety? to be honest, i'm a bit skeptical. >> david, i'm stunned by the fact that we got through this and you never said the name. there was never a slip-up or anything like that. >> it's very easy. there's the perpetrator, the suspect, the gunman. and we all know who we're talking about. the name is fleetly superfluous. whether someone is born with the name smith or mcgillicutty, that's something that doesn't emit intent or background. that part is a no-brainer. also, i don't want it to be 100%. i want it to be out there so anyone can google it and so forth, but the killer is still seeing he's being dissed by most of the media. he's having most of his voice robbed from him and his identity. 100% is not necessary or even
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desirable. it's taking away most of it who will have the impact of those future killers watching right now. >> i'm glad to have this conversation with both of you. dave collin, jeff greenfield, thank you both for being here. >> thank you. we're going to stay on this topic. on the other side of the break, the editor in chief of cosmopolitan is here to talk about mysogeny and the media. don't go away. (train horn) vo: wherever our trains go, the economy comes to life. norfolk southern. one line, infinite possibilities.
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yes, all women. those three words dominated social media in the aftermath of the shooting we talked about earlier near santa barbara.
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the mysogenistic views, and it was all captured in this hash tag movement by women. it finally got the attention it deserves in the media. that conversation has also gotten quite a bit of backlash. there are some people that just don't get it. this is megan kelly reacting to it. >> this is an on-line twitter this week talking about, i'm a vict victim, too, i've been a victim of men, too. six actual dead victims which is not to be equated with women who feel they've suffered abuse in the workplace. >> i wish you would engage rather than just dismiss it. wire going to talk about it in a serious way. i want to talk about what the
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hash tag movement means and more importantly what the backlash says about our culture. joining me in new york, janet coles, editor of the biggest selling magazine in the world, cosmopolitan. janet, thank you for coming on. >> my pleasure, brian. >> there is this crazy guy who shot people at this campus, but then we have these others ones. a tweet says, not all wommen has women. but all women have at some point been harassed by men. food forethought. none of this is to take away from the thought that mental issues and guns. talk about the issue of victim shaming. i'm talking about how this does not get enough attention in the
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mainstream media. do you think that's something that has been true for a long time and remains true? >> i think what's very interesting is that the incredible power of the social web, and so what happens now is you have victims' names getting out there and people piling on the victims for complaining about having been abused, which is extraordinary. you have this incredible phenomenon of revenge porn where ex-boyfriends release naked photos of their girlfriends that were taken in private, intimate moments and they're suddenly available for everybody to see and it's incredibly difficult to get them off the web and extremely distressing for people. so there is this sense of disinhibiting factor of the web, this sort of disconnection that one feels without someone in the room allows someone to do something. and technology is so fast, we haven't got laws to keep up with it and people don't know how to react to it. and i think the sort of mental noise of this is really
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impacting young women and young men. a very interesting piece, actually, in our print version. still got lots of print going on in our july issue by anna lynn mccord, that actor from "beverly hills 902190210" in which she w up in an apartment and finds him trying to rape her. it started her downward spiral which ended up with her actually thinking of suicide and having
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to reach out and get help. since is an extraordinary sense of the web, and you certainly see that coming from anna lynn. >> janet, thank you for joining me today. >> my pleasure. i would love to hear your feedback about this issue and the show in general. i'm on twitter and facebook. my name is brian stelter and i think your feedback makes the week. daniel helzburg will be joining me in why he thinks edward snowden is right.
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welcome back. for red news blue news this week, i have a very special guest standing by in berkeley, california. but first let me show you what we're talking about. it's brian williams' interview with edward snowden. it aired prime time on wednesday night and it's now available on line. snowden, as i'm sure you know, provided all those top secret nsa documents to people like eric greenwald and got everyone talking about mass surveillance. >> he says breaking the law was his only option, and that's not all he said. >> so that tease right there, that tease is too often how the story is framed.
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watch this tape with me with fox news the morning after the interview. this is the segment they were teasing. first there was republican voice radio host lars larsen. >> he should be put on trial, he should be convicted because he's a guilty traitor. he deserves to be shot. >> there is a lot of talk of whether or not brian williams asked him the toughest questions he could have, jessica. >> let's stop right there. martha mccollum, your guest just said a whistle blower should be shot and killed and you didn't ask any follow-up questions. instead you started questioning brian williams' questions. now she's turning from a republican to a democrat, jessica ehrlich. >> there is talk whether or not brian williams asked him the toughest questions he could have, jessica. peter king raised that question saying he wasn't tough enough on him. what do you think? >> well, i didn't get to watch the whole interview. >> stop, stop. if you did not watch the whole snowden interview, you should not be opining about snowden on
quote quote
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television. but she did, anyway, and she went on to say it disturbed her that snowden was given a chance to tell his side of the story. now, that is an extreme example. but all across the cable dial this week, i heard a lot of skepticism about snowden. i'm sure you did, too. a congressional aide here, a former government official there. i did not hear enough from his supporters. so let's hear from one right now. i'm sure you know his name, daniels ellsburg. he was the pentagon's whistle blower four years ago and he said snowden did the right thing. it's remarkable he waited a whole year to give an interview, and they said that was on purpose because he wanted the interview to be about mass surveillance, not about the man himself. do you think he accomplished his goal? >> yes, i do. i think that he needed to be out of the country in order to do what he has done, which is to guide several reporters that he's dealt with, bart gellman,
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lauren greenwald, very carefully through chat logs through the maze of arcane symbols and illusions through these documents. if he had simply dumped them on the web, which he could have done without any retribution, and he would be free and clear and back in hawaii right now if he had done that, they don't speak for themselves. there's too many symbols and code words that even i having had those clearances and been in the government wouldn't understand without someone informing me. so he's been able to do that continuously, and the only way he could do that was from outside the country. >> and yet a lot of the media coverage was about the fact that he is in russia and that he wants to come home. we saw secretary of state john kerry comment about this, and he was comparing, actually contrasting, your case and snowden's. let me play a clip from that. >> there are many a patriot. you can go back to the pentagon papers with dan ellsburg and
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others who stood and went to the court system of america and made their case. edward snowden is a coward. he is a traitor, and he has betrayed his country. and if he wants to come home tomorrow to face the music, he can do so. >> reacting to that, you are calling is slanderous and despicable. why is john kerry wrong? >> he calls ed snowden a fugitive from justice. i would say he's right in regarding he's a fugitive from injustice. that appeared in my own trial 43 years ago and that was the very first prosecution of any american for giving information to americans. that trial demonstrated that i was not allowed, by the nature of the charges against me under the espionage act, to describe my motives, my reasons, the considerations that had led me to break my promise that i had made to the government many times not to reveal their secrets. i wasn't able to tell the jury
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that i regarded those secrets as wrong of the, unconstitutional, wrongfully withheld. i wasn't able to say anything about that. or why i felt that it was reasonable for me to risk my life in this circumstance as i had done earlier in the marine corps and elsewhere and vietnam but to risk my life to get the truths to the american people. snowden wouldn't have a chance to say any of those things, the sort of things he said to brian williams. he couldn't say those to a jury. the prosecutor would say, objection, irrelevant, as in my case. and under the current terms of the espionage act, the judge would have to agree. that's why the espionage act needs to be rescinded as applied to leakers. it was never meant to be applied to whistle blowers as president obama has now done seven times. it's not designed for that and it's unconstitutional in that capacity. and second, congress should pass laws that guarantee a public defense to anyone accused of
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breaking secrecy regulations by truth telling, by whistle blowing. >> edward snowden has called you an inspiration. do you view him as an inspiration as well. >> i certainly do. i think he's -- i was very pleased to hear that i had been in his mind at all when i saw th that on the news just yesterday. i called my wife to take a look at the computer. she said, you should take a picture of that. i'm proud of that because edward snowden is a man that makes me proud to be an american, and that doesn't happen every day. >> daniel ellsburg, thank you for sharing your thoughts today. >> thank you very much. this weekend is relaunching with a brand new media section, so make sure to check it out. we have to sneak in a quick break here, but coming up, an old, controversial and kind of obscure idea. they call it the case for
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it's a tragedy of injustices. he shined it on this, a cover story for the atlantic. this is a cover story for pained check out what he told me. how did this start? >> i would love to say it was totally intentional. it was not totally intentional. we had the piece out, everybody was very happy, very pleased and very proud of it. and i was talking to james bennett, you know, who is editor, now co-president of the atlantic, and i suggested, hey, can we just tweet the cover out,
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maybe get a little hype, not say anything else. he said, you know what? we've been experimenting with doing these movie trailers for the entire issue. he said, what if we did one for just this story? and i said, okay, that sounds interesting. and i saw it probably about two days before it was tweeted out. it blew me away. >> maybe this is what publishers have to do now in this digital age. >> yes, but if i may be a little arrogant, i think it matters that you have a great story behind it. >> not only a movie, you have to have character development, a payoff, all those things associated with movies. >> that's right, you have to have something to advertise. the atlantic put quite a bit of resources behind that piece and making sure to tell it with all the thickness it deserved. >> there was a single track record the day it went on line. it's been read days and days since. what has been the reaction you heard? have you succeeded in kicking
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off a debate about this topic? >> i think so. i would say so. it has been shocking. >> donald sterling has been in the news for his racist rant that was on audio, but he was accused of house misinformation four years ago and that didn't get nearly as much press attention. >> and it's nowhere near as sexy as, say, some young girl catching you on audio tape and releasing it to the world. people like that. there's something sexy about that. but housing really gets to the core of our identity as americans. i have post aid piece of the country. for people to see a whole class of people cut out of that, people can get the basic injustice of that, i think. >> what is your overall impression of the way race is usually covered in the media? this article is in a league of its own. we don't see 16,000 words often dedicated to an issue like this. >> i think racism is covered in
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a way we cover most things in the media, which means there is a biracial spectacle. when people say something, that means something. this presents great difficulty for those of us who are concerned about the force of races in the american life, because much of it is not spectacle. >> your character interest is not the stuff of headlines? >> not at all. even race that does get attention, we see that old footage of bull kaan, or we see kids getting high pressure. that sort of thing is not evoked by the stuff i'm covering in this story. >> it's very black and white. >> very true. i think that's the challenger of any story teller. you have to find a way to bring that to life and get across to people what's actually happening. >> you're getting across sterling, bundy, these are stories that can make people feel good because they can easily condemn them.
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>> it's harder to get at things at the core of us. i feel that's a story telling challenge, to get people to look away from the spectacle, to look at the really quiet systemic things that damage a lot of people's laws in this country. >> you've been out promoting the article, talking about i saw you and how they missed the racial context of the country when they write about politics. tell me what you wish political reporters would do differently. >> i think part of this is -- the racial context suffers from a bigger problem and that is -- this has been one of my great frustrations for a long time, the ahistorical nature of political punditry and political analysts. i wish we could understand our history better, integrate that into our actual storytelling, our coverage, our analysis a little bit better. not to take it back there, but that was one of the challenges of this particular story, you know, how do you make history
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interesting? we know that history has a weight on our lives but the bias towards the immediate, i think the challenge is to connect the immediate to the past. >> thank you so much for joining me and telling me about it. >> brian thanks so much for having me. when we come back here on reliable sources, two dramatic departures at the white house. i will talk to the reporter at the center of the va scandal that ultimately led to the downfall of a cabinet secretary. don't go away. whon a certified pre-ownedan unlimitedmercedes-benz?nty what does it mean to drive as far as you want... for up to three years and be covered? it means your odometer... is there to record the memories. during the mercedes-benz certified pre-owned sales event now through june 2nd, you'll get complimentary pre-paid maintenance and may qualify for a two-month payment credit. only at your authorized mercedes-benz dealer. ♪ here's a good one seattle... what did geico say to the mariner? we could save you a boatload!
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reporters call them friday news dumps when the white house releases the news it wants to bury for the weekend. the man who did the dumping for years, white house press secretary jay carney, made news himself. >> in april, jay came to me in the oval office and said he was thinking about moving on and i was not thrill, to say the least. but jay's had to wrestle with this decision for quite some time. >> it's been a privilege and it continues to be a privilege and every day in here with you has been a privilege. people -- >> every day? >> more often than not. >> carney will be stepping down late they are month. the longest serving white house press secretary in more than 20 years. his announcement briefly, but only briefly, distracted the white house press corps from the bigger departure of the day the
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white house secretary, eric shinse shinseki, resigned under pressure friday morning. this va story has been building for months, so after the shinseki step aid side, i went down to the eighth floor of the cnn bureau in d.c. and found cnn correspondent, drew griffin. it was his reporting about va health care delays that forced this issue onto the national news agenda. >> i wanted to start by asking when you started looking into the va health care delays, 'cause this is not something that started a month or two ago. >> no, it was last fall, brian, early last fall, and we put our first story on the air in november when we were actually identifying and talking about patients who had died waiting for care. there were actual dead veterans because they got delays in care, basically colonoscopies down in south carolina and georgia. that was our first story. and that was our first attempt to reach general shinseki and ask him if he knew about this and what was being done about it. that was a long time ago. basically, they have tried to shut down our reporting by refusing to talk to us.
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>> we talked here on the program last week about dr. sam foote in phoenix, how he came through as an on-the-record source. the story seemed to grow even bigger once he came on camera. >> that's right. and he was the spark behind it because the secret list is what came out of phoenix and for whatever reason, who knows what, that's what the media really just took their -- sunk their teeth into. >> and i wonder what it feels like for you to have seen him resign on friday, what that's like? because for a reporter so many reporters maybe in journalism school think about having an impact on that scale. >> i feel sorry for him. it's bizarre. i don't want to gloat at all or think that's any kind of a trophy, i'm glad that the veterans are now getting some attention to this problem that many people knew about or should have known about. >> drew, thanks for letting me talk to you in between live shots today, a very busy man. >> thank you. >> that's all for reliable sources this week, stay tuned a news update and then "state of the union" with candy crowley.
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good morning. i'm eric machine pike and here are the big stories we are following this hour. an american soldier just released from captivity in afghanistan has now arrived at a u.s. military hospital in germany. sergeant bowe bergdahl was freed yesterday in exchange for five guantanamo bay detainees. defense secretary chuck hagel said today, berg dal's health and safety informs jeopardy and the u.s. had to move quickly to save his life. no one could be happier at the news of sergeant berg dal's release than his parents. they joined president obama yesterday at the white house thanking everyone who has supported their son and saying they will continue to stay strong for him while he recovers. they haven't spoken to him yet, but we will hear more from them when they speak to reporters at 3 p.m. eastern and we will bring you those comments live. louis cass, a media mogul co-owned the philadelphia ya
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enquirer, daily news and is among the victims of a private jet crash outside boston last night. six others died and there were no survivors, according to the faa. the plane apparently caught fire shortly after taking off. a park official on mt. ranier thinks there's little chance of finding six missing climbers alive. the group went missing several days ago. it's believed they probably died in some sort of fall. i'm erin mcpike. "state of the union" with candy crowley starts right now. the u.s. soldier they did not leave behind and the guantanamo bay detainees they let go. today the u.s. and the taliban agree to a prisoner swap. five taliban terrorists for the release of the only american p.o.w. in the afghan war. >> he wasn't forgotten by his country because the united states of america does not ever leave our men and women in