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tv   At This Hour With Berman and Michaela  CNN  July 21, 2014 8:00am-9:01am PDT

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president of the united states momentarily will be walking out to the microphones on the south lawn of the white house to make a situation on the situation in ukraine, a situation that has clearly under mined u.s.-russian relationship which was pretty bad to begin with, now it is deteriorating by the day. peter minerd is watching what is going on. as we await the president, what
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would you want him to say, right now? >> i think that the momentum is going in the right direction in terms of pressure on russia to open up that site. there have been very strong statements from some of the european leaders in the last day or so, i would imagine obama would reiterate that. beyond that, i think this is a moment of some leverage for the u.s. and western europe in general to try to push russia to distance themselves from those separatists and accept the sovereignty of kiev over all of ukraine. i would imagine he would hear both of those themes. >> the chances of vladimir putin accepting the ukrainian sovereignty over all of ukraine, crimea, all of ukraine. what are those chances? they don't seem very realistic right now. >> i agree. they are not that high. you now have the europeans
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talking about economic sanctions. even though there's some consequences to the u.k., this was something they still had to be prepared to do. putin is a tough customer, he will probably try to wait this out and hope there will be some ambiguity. the rebels do seem to be somewhat weak on the ground, i think this is the best moment to try to use that leverage. >> stand by for a moment. general marks, israelis have told me in the last few days, they have some sophisticated equipment on jet lineser that could have avoided a takedown like this. they are developing new technology even as we speak right now. how effective would this anti missile technology on commercial airlineser would be if a missile were launched from the ground going up to 30 to 35,000 feet?
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>> the technology does exist. it exists on a whole host of military aircraft. what the israelis have done clearly makes sense for their conditions surrounded by enemies and routinely trying to conduct routine and what i would call commercial and civil activities. so they have made the decision because it makes sense for them. clearly what this indicates is that when you are traveling over in extremist territory there clearly this this possibility. could this technology work? it could. but the cost would need to be made based on the flight path and the patterns that the aircraft is trying to take. >> but the technology is clearly there, so it's only a matter of money. i assume a lot of passenger would feel a lot more comfortable knowing that this kind of anti missile system was at the bottom of these planes. >> well, yes. i think at the end of the day the conversation would be do you feel comfortable with this? i think the answer might be do we have to travel over these areas where this might take
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place? that i think is really the discussion, plus there are evasive flying tactics that would have to be used that would throw everybody in the back of the aircraft upside down and backwards, i think they would prefer that than the ultimate outcome we saw in the ukraine. these really decisions that have to be made across the board. as an intelligence guy, i look at what took place in eastern ukraine and the nature of ungoverned space. my question is who has the this -- have this migrated to other hot spots in the world? >> phil black is our man on eastern ukraine. on the war on the ground right now, does it look, phil, as if the ukrainian military really does have the upper hand? we're having a little trouble,
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which is totally understandable with phil black. let me go to barbara starr. as we await the president, does it look like the yawn -- ukrainian military does have the advantage right now, they are really making some significant progress against these pro russian separatists in eastern ukraine. >> it does look like they are trying to make progress. we've seen in the last hours, they are making moves to recapture donetsk, which is one of the hot beds of this pro russian separatist movement. they are working all the time. progress until something like this happens and everybody has to basically pause, reevaluate and try and deal with this situation. i think what the u.s. is trying to do at this point is tighten up that intelligence case and show that no matter what the situation is on the ground, the russians are still very deeply involved. >> stand by.
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i want to bring in christiane in a amanpour. we're all anxious to hear what the yawn -- ukrainian leader has to say. >> most particularly, about what is being done to bring the bodies of those victims back to a dignified repatriation a. i have the interview with the ukrainian president. president proroshenko thank you
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for joining me. your senior officials are now saying all the bodies are being brought to an eastern city on an refrigerated train. that every body or just the ones that have been on the train for the last 24 or so hours? >> thank you very much, indeed, and really thanks for having the possibility to explain the situation in ukraine directly to the viewers of cnn. first of all, we still missing 16 bodies of the innocent victims of the terrorist attack which happened 96 hours ago in ukrainian sky, but the rest, from the 298 victims is already in a refrigerator train which
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was supplied by ukrainian government, but still blocked in the territory controlled by the separatists. given all that, we have new possible time for releasing the refrigerator under the supervision of the inspector of oec and this is 7:00 local time, so within 50 minutes, we're waiting the possible progress in this situation. i just want to deliver the information that in ukraine, during the last days happen three major international crimes. crime number one is that terrorist attack itself, where the terrorists supported by the russian launch rocket missile, surface-to-air missile against
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the civilian malaysian plane, which brings 298 victims. crime number two, and it is a disaster, the way how the bodies, innocent bodies, including the children were treated. they make -- they take their personal belongings these terrorists, and they treat it very badly. this is bar bearian style of doing this with the bodies of victims, and crime number three, all that during this 96 hours, they try to destroy the evidence. this is impossible because we have all the strong evidence by ukrainian side, by the international community, by the united states, by the countries where civilians have suffered from this terrorist attack,
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including germany, malaysia, we know exactly the place where s.a.m. were launched. we know exactly the place the civilian plane, the place where the plane crashed and all this territory is firmly controlled by russian-supported terrorists, and all this territory, this is only place where it can be reached, the plane by this type of surface-to-air missile and i think we should now speak about -- >> mr. president? >> yes. >> sorry to interrupt you, but the united states tells cnn that they are investigating the possibility that it was russian personnel who may have actually been manning this buk, this sa-11 missile system. do you believe that as well? is that what your intelligence has picked up?
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>> we have intercepted phone conversation which we'll make it public by our secret service and we had a lot of evidence that these people are supported by russia, trained by russia, armed by russia, and most of them, and their leaders are russian citizens. that is for sure. and we now have an absolutely different situation than before this terroristic attack. the older people in the world should find out their own place, are they together with the civilized world which demonstrated solidarity, with the victims, of the country who suffered from this terroristic attack with ukraine or they support the terrorists and this is absolutely possible to mix.
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i think every country and every person and every leader should find out their own place. ukraine -- ukrainian court make a decision to recognize these so-called donetsk people as a terroristic organization. most of the country who suffered of the terroristic attack doing the same. i hope that the united states, together with the united states congress and senate make the same decision, to recognize this terrorist as a terroristic organization, create absolutely new legal framework for those who support it and cooperating with these terrorists and i think everything should be transparent and open, but that is the very important gesture of solidarity. we're waiting for the whole world together for the victims. >> can i ask you to react
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because there have been several declarations from moscow today? first and for most, president putin has been seen on line and on camera saying he would enable a full investigation, make sure that was able to take place in the crash site region, and that he would do whatever he could to stop the fighting in that region. do you believe that this is president putin's moment of truth and that he will now do that? >> look, i think this is a question for everybody, not only speak, but demonstrate the effective bsness -- of their own action. but i can tell you that today i make a decision to declare the zone diameter, 40 kilometers around the place of the terroristic attack as zone-free
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of military ukrainian army. we undertake enormous effort to receive and deliver to the place where tragedy happened. hundreds and hundreds of the international experts of the -- of those who will deal with the bodies of the victims and unfortunately, until now, we don't have receive any -- any permission to launch the investigation on this place. and please, this is absolutely no explanation and no excuse for this way of behavior for these terrorists. and from my poifer -- point of view, now again, we should be ziestive to make a transparent international investigation. what i do in the first hour of this catastrophe, i call to the
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prime ministers and leaders of the countries inviting them for the investigation. we enter and demonstrate the transparency and the openness for this investigation and today i also make a decision to give permission to my government to appoint netherlands to lead in this investigation under the umbrella of ecou and for them to send the bodies back, we're ready to provide some investigatory procedure for the netherlands. this is simply impossible to remove and destroy all the evidence, because all the shrapnel is dispersed in the tear toir of 20 square kilometers. this crime, the international crime is impossible to destroy, and i think all their efforts which undertaken by this russian
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supported terrorists, by the way, please, don't name them separatists, there is no separatists there. they are terrorists. they are killing innocent people, and i think that they attempt to destroy the evidence. >> mr. president, if you will just hold on scb just listen to president obama for a moment and we'll be back. >> kerry has departed for the middle east. as i've said many times, israel has a right to defend itself against rocket and tunnel attacks from hamas, and as a result of its operations, israel has already done significant damage to hamas's terrorist infrastructure in gaza. i've also said however that we have serious concerns about the rising number of palestinian civilian deaths and the loss of israeli lives and that is why it now has to be our focus and the focus of the international community to bring about a cease fire that ends the fighting and
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that can stop the deaths of innocent sifels, both in gaza and in israel. so secretary kerry will meet with allies and partners. i've instructed him to push f for -- to stop hostilities. the work will not be easy. obviously, there are enormous passions involved in this, and some very difficult strategic issues involved. nevertheless, i've asked john to do everything he can to help facilitate a cessation to hostilities. we don't want to see any more civilians getting killed. with respect to to ukraine, it's now been four days since malaysian airlines flight 17 was shot down over territory controlled by russian-backed separatists in ukraine.
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over the last several days, our hearts have been absolutely broken as we've learned more about the extraordinary and beautiful lives that were lost. men, women, and children, and infants who were killed so suddenly and so senselessly. our thoughts and prayers continue to be with their families around the world who are going through just unimaginable grief. i've had the opportunity to speak to a number of leaders around the world whose citizens were lost on this flight and all of them remain in a state of shock, but frankly also in a state of outrage. our immediate focus is on recovering those who were lost, investigating exactly what happened and putting forth the facts. we have to make sure the truth
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is out and that accountability exists. now, international investigators are on the ground. they have been organized. i've sent teams, other countries have sent teams. they are prepared, they are organized to conduct what should be the kinds of protocols and scouring and collecting of evidence that should follow any international incident like this, and what they need right now is immediate and full access to the crash site. they need to be able to conduct a prompt and full and unimpeded as well as transparent investigation. and recovery personnel have to do the solemn and sacred work of recovering the remains of those who were lost. now, ukrainian president poroshenko has declared a demilitaryized zone around the
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crash site. you have international teams prepared to conduct the investigation and recover the remains of those who have been lost, but unfortunately, the russian backed separatists continue to block the site. they block full access to the site. they fired weapons in the air as investigators approached. what exactly are they trying to hide? moreover, these russian-backed separatists are removing bodies from the crash site. oftentimes, without the care that we would normally expect from a tragedy like this. and this is an insult to those who have lost loved ones. this is the kind of behavior that has no place in the community of nations. now, russian has extraordinary influence over these separatists.
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no one denies that. russia has urged them on, trained them, rewoe -- we know that russia has armed them with military equipment and weapons, including anti aircraft weapons, key separatist leaders are russian citizens, so given its direct influence over the separatists, russia and president putin in particular has direct responsibility to compel them to cooperate with the investigation. that is the least that they can do. president putin says that he supports a full and fair investigation, and i appreciate those words but they have to be supported by actions. the burden now is on russia to insist that the separatists stop tampering with evidence, grant investigators who are already on the ground, immediate, full, and unimpeded access to the crash site. the separatists and the russian sponsors are responsible for the safety of the investigators
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doing their work and along with our allies and partners, we will be working this issue at the united nations today. more proudly, as i've said throughout this crisis, and the crisis in ukraine generally and i've said directly to president putin as well as publicly. my preference continues to be finding a diplomatic resolution within ukraine. i believe that can still happen. that is my preference today and it will continue to be my preference. but if russia continues to violate ukraine yaes sovereignty to back these separatists and these separatists become more and more dangerous and now are risks not simply to the people inside of ukraine but the broader international community, then russia will only further isolate itself from the international community and the costs for russia's behavior will only continue to increase. now is the time for president putin and russia to pivot away
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from this tragedy that they have been taking and get serious about trying to resolve hostilities within ukraine in a way that respects ukraine's sovereignty and respects the right of the ukrainian people to make their own decisions about their own lives. and time is of the essence. our friends and alleys need to be able to recover those who were lost. that's the least we can do. that's the least that decency demands. families deserve to be able to lay their loved ones to rest with dignity. the world deserves to know exactly 17 what happened and the people of ukraine deserve to determine their own future. >> do you think there are any sanctions or other actions if russia doesn't help? >> that was president obama first saying he's dispatching secretary kerry in search of a immediate cease fire in the pals
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pls palestinian-israeli war. i'm joined with president of ukraine. you've just heard president obama and he has very clearly said that russia must use its influence to make sure that this investigation is allowed to proceed and to make sure that these separatists, people you call terrorists, are not allowed to continue their action. so first and foremost let me ask you what are you looking for from the international community to compel president putin to do this? >> so, first of all, we should demonstrate a strong solidarity and to arrange the pressure for all of those who support the terrorists who prevent the independent investigation, to stop the people, to take the body of their relatives back to give them the necessary
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treatment, burial and everything. so the every hour of postponing this date can make an absolutely disasterous harm to the whole situation. position number two, i don't see any differences from their tragedy 9/11 from the tragedy of lockerbie and from the tragedy on the ukrainian sky. the problem on the following, so every -- at -- at this tragedy, we should demonstrate the same way of reaction. this is a danger for the whole world. this is a danger for the global security and this is not just a question -- let's not demonstrate that we are talking about some conflict inside ukraine. ukrainian nation now are united.
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we don't have any conflict inside ukrainian nation, and this is again the danger for the global security and the global world should find out a right answer to these challenges. no doubt about that. >> but mr. president, you want -- >> people should feel how danger it is. >> i understand what you are saying. i just want to know specifically, because the international community is getting ready potentially to impose more sanctions and world leaders seem to be much more united in speaking with much more unified voice than they may have done in the past. are sanctions are going to do it? is that what you are looking for? >> we should use all the methods which are in our hands just to deescalate the situation. if the situation -- if sanction will help that, we should introduce new sanction. if it's not working, we should maybe ask the united states
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congress to present us the status of which -- from this time receive israel, japan, south korea and finishing to filipino, are the united states partners as a major -- to help us to solve the security problem. we should understand that we should act effectively to stop the danger for the global security. ukrainian army do their best and during their last weeks, we demonstrate a significant progress, shrinking, shortening two times the tir tear tory of the anti terroristic situation. i as a president present a peace plan. we declare a unitlateral cease fire for seven days. they continue for three more days. but every single day of cease fire, my country lost from three
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to 19 soldiers, every day. we have more than about 1,000 wounded and this is a very high price for the -- for solving of the conflict. but i'm absolutely sure that our actions should be effective and we should be together using all the opportunities, starting from the u.n. security council, from the european union council, from the global solidarity starting from japan, new zealand, and malaysia today and ukrainian people were never so united as today and the global people were never so united as today. every country, including russia should find out and make a decision where their own place in this world, together with the terrorists or together with the civilized world. >> and mr. president, what is the situation in the donetsk region right now, near where the crash site is? there have been reports of
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fighting, of confusion as to whether actually is a ukrainian military operation under way there. some in the government deny it, some say it is a planned counteroffensive. can you tell me what is going on right now then militarily? >> the terrorists are attacking my troops. this morning, i make a decision for the unilateral cease fire in a diameter of 40 kilometers around zone of the crash, just to provide the necessary condition for the investigation group to work and we don't take any precondition for that, and this stop of military operation will last until the international investigation commission will work, but that's again no reaction from the russian backed separatists even on this proposal, so the -- if it is not working, we will
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present other pressures. including the military one if nothing helps. but now we talk about the deescalation and peace in this zone. we're waiting for two weeks until this representative of this terrorist sitting on the table or having the video conference with the trilateral group from the oac and kranian representative. can you imagine now that in the present situation we use all the opportunities, but this problem on the east of ukraine should be solved because this is, again, creating the global danger of the global security. >> mr. president, i have to ask you to react to something that the russian defense minister said today. he held a news conference a few hours ago and showed what he
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said were all sorts of radar pictures and saying that it was a ukrainian military aircraft that was flying a few kilometers away from the malaysian flight 17 just shortly around the time that it was down. what is your reaction to that? >> my immediate reaction, this is not true, and we are open for any checking and this is not -- russia -- when the russian minister -- when russian minister makes such a statement, they should present evidence of that, but the sky above the ukrainian is monitored by lots of stlts, lots of anti aircraft position, everybody knows in this period of time when tragedy happened, that all ukrainian planes were on the ground. and this is not true. and i invite the russian
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representative to participate in the work in the investigation commission, instead of doing such irresponsible statement, they have an opportunity to send their representative and present to the commission all the necessary evidence. not wasting 96 hours, when the people around the globe are sitting and waiting about the possibility to start the international investigation work, so this is irresponsible and false statement of russian minister, and unfortunately this is demonstrate very bad trend. i'm very disappointed with that. >> have you actually spoken to president putin since this plane was downed? >> we are in constant contact. of the normandy -- we wait now
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the practical step. i have now international calls with the leaders of states and i want to thank you very much indeed for this opportunity to communicate and thank you for the people of the whole world for supporting ukraine and victim of the terrorist attack in this difficult time. thank you very much indeed. >> president poroshenko, thank you very much. you make your phone calls and we will continue to follow this story. we're going straight back now to wolf blitzer and wolf you heard some very em fattic declarations and denials from the president of ukraine, denying any responsibility, including the accusations from the russian defense minister saying he has ordered a 40 kilometer cease fire and sanitary zone if you like around the crash site and wanting immediately international investigators to come. he said that there are still 16 of the 298 bodies that have not been picked up and have not yet
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been accounted for. the others, he says, in a very few hours, if not almost immediately now given the time difference, will be making their way on that refrigerated train back to the eastern town and to be returned a decent reunion have family members and decent bural. >> it's shocking four days they have slieg there -- lying there and still have not recovered these bodies. it's totally shocking what's going on. you are ware that 298 people were aboard that plane and that search and rescue site -- that search operation has been so, so awful. you've spoken to this president poroshenko on several occasions, what else can he do effectively to try to restore ukrainian
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sovereignty throughout all of ukraine? >> it is incredibly difficult and truthfully as everybody now says and understands, the only way for that to happen is for the russian president to be fully engage on this. the last time i spoke to president poroshenko was just a few weeks ago and he at that time had -- there was a cease fire under way. he had offered a peace plan and that eventually was not taken up by the separatists or by president putin, and i asked him, i said, in order for this to be solved, you do have to work with president putin, right? he said absolutely because they can choose how to turn it up and how to turn it down. how to open the border and let these fighters and heavy weaponry and anti aircraft miss siels and tank and all the rest of it come in or not. they could close it and make sure that didn't happen. stop these heavy weapon systems, stop russian trainers going in, mercenaries going in. all you have to be is a -- they
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are there. and he says that's the only way it's going to stop. but he does say also that he up until this crash, up until this downing of this plane believed that russia's interest was to create a weak eastern ukraine to continue to destabilize it, to try to continue to exert influence over him and what goes on in ukraine and that he says has to stop and we'll see whether this is a turning point, whether this will shock the russian leadership into falling into line with international procedures and respecting ukraine's sovereignty and its territorial integrity which russia signed up to way back 20 years ago, wolf. >> i was thinking you and i were in moscow together in december, 1991, when the collapse of the soviet union occurred. we saw that signing ceremony, ending 74 years of communist
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rule what was then the soviet union then became the independent states, including russia. we thought the cold war was over, obviously, and it was over for a while, but give me your thought right now. is the cold war back on? >> well, depending on who you talk to, some people think yes. but most people say no. this is obviously the worst conflagration, the worst tension, crisis, it does get worse and more bitter with each of these outrageous incidents and this one being so over the top that people have been shocked into making sure that they react very strongly to this, but, no, the cold war is not back, but relations between the united states and russia are incredibly bad, just to put a small, you know, description on that. very, very bad. and the point really is what does president putin choose to do now? all we can, we've been listening here to europe, to the prime
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minister of britain, chancellor of germany, to the president of france, leaders of central europe, the president and the foreign minister of poland, et cetera, et cetera, saying this is the time to call a halt and draw a line in the sand that president putin has to make a choice whether to be part of the internationally accepted civilized norms of international law and behavior or not or to continue down a path that some are wondering really in scratching their head as to how on earth this might benefit russia to begin with? his own previous advisers are saying he does not have a strategic sense of what he's doing. this is all very tactical and yes it might have played well in russia given the propaganda that's governing the situation in russia, president putin has had very high ratings but get this because of that propaganda over that last four months, 40% of russian people would like to see russia enter war with ukraine.
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putin doesn't want that. but he's now put himself in a position that he's going to have to really use that strength that he has to push himself back on to where he becomes a constructive member of what's going on rather than to continue to play this double game of i can't control them, it's not up to me, i want a peaceful settlement. now he's been read the riot act by the international community. will he hear it? we'll see. >> we'll see if those sanctions are ratcheted up more. i suspect they will. unless there's vladimir putin blinks and he's not a guy who often blinks. thank you so much for speaking with the president of ukraine. the president of the united states making a major statement in ukraine as well as what's going on here in the middle east. our special coverage will continue. we'll take a quick break. much more news right after this. cheerios? honey nut. but... chocolate is my other favorite... oh yeah, and frosted!
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this as u.s. mill military officials investigating whether russian military was there. >> we want to bring in mike turner in washington. in light of the two conversations, wolf blitzer was with us hearing the president speaking about the white house with the situation ongoing in ukraine and i know you heard also from president poroshenko as he was reacting to the situation on the ground there. so many voices that we're hearing not only from the presidents of both nations, are putting a lot of blame squarely on the shoulders of vladimir putin. president obama being very clear in saying that he believes that his preference has always been that diplomacy is the way to go. i'm wondering if you think that is far enough for the president or he needs to make more action than that. >> you are right. these certainly are the strongest statements that we've heard from the president, firmly laying the blame on vladimir putin on what's occurring there,
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lack of the access of the sight and the fact that a war zone has been opened up in europe. >> he is not talking about a diplomatic swaying that includes the separatists, that are russian citizens or rush itself. >> the president said that international investigators need access immediately to the crash site here which is also a crime scene. he said that russian president vladimir putin now has the burden on him to make sure that these pro russian rebels allow this access and the president says if mr. putin does not allow this access the cost for the russian behavior will continue to increase and my question to you are those costs high enough right now and what should the additional costs on russia be? >> well, gep, i don't think they are strong enough, but the
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president has gone and made the strongest statements that he has about putin's influence here, saying the international community needs access and vladimir putin needs to do more than make statements. recognizing that he believes putin is in control and in charge and if putin says access will be granted that will be granted. president went on to say how important this is investigated. this is a crime scene, people were murdered. people need to be hold accountability. another issue this points out, this is a difference between the international community and russia with respect to to human values, we see that for the handling of the site, support of europe and the support of civilians. >> the president has called for sanctions against russia in the past when we've seen the things
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that happen in the past. are we going to see more unification? >> the international community has seen the risks of. i think what's interesting here is the issue of what is the toolbox that we have to put pressure upon russia? sanctions are certainly a dial that we can turn up but the great interview that was done of president poroshenko certainly indicates that nato plays a role. an opportunity to provide intelligence and strategy and equipment to the ukraine and also you have the issue of how else can we assist them in looking to identify these separatists as poroshenko indicated as terrorists. >> you talked about the interview that was done by cnn. the president said the pro russian rebels who he said shot down mh 17, he said they were supported, trained, and armed by
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the russians themselves. he even suggested most of them are russian citizens to be sure. that's an exact quote from him right there. you were privy to certain intelligence. do you believe that russians and vladimir putin are directly responsible or even tangentally responsible for shooting down this aircraft? >> i can't tell you what's occurred in the briefs but i can tell you how pleased i was about the president's statements about drawing a line. if you give someone equipment, training, and means and approve of their mission to basically kill someone and they kill someone else, you are still as absolutely guilty of the killing as we see here in this instance. this is why this is a crime scene. i think russia bears responsibility. they are continuing that with not providing access to the site. it was very i think encouraging to hearing the president strongly say what are they trying to hide. i think that certainly is an
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issue that vladimir putin himself needs to answer. >> thanks so much for making time for us and sticking with us here in cnn. obviously the situation is developing, ongoing, hopefully be able to talk to you again about it. >> what exactly are they trying to hide? words president obama just moments ago about this crash site, this crime scene in ukraine. serious concerns. it has already been contaminated. next we'll look at how this will affect, perhaps impede the investigation going forward. .
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what are you hiding? that was the call put out by president obama to pro-russian rebels in ukraine. there's major concern that they have disrupted the crash site. there are even grisly reports of thieves stealing bank cards from victim's bodies. a fresh round of fighting has broken out within 40 miles of that fight. >> the first international team of investigators have arrived on scene. they're said to be inspecting bodies stored in those refrigerated rail cars. we've learned the rebels will now allow the train to travel to another ukraine city in less than an hour. a contaminated crash scene is sort of your worst nightmare, but then you add to it, the fact that there's fighting, there's a threat in the area. talk about how this is going to affect this investigation. >> the investigation itself is
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ongoing. that's the proximate investigation. what i'm worried more about is down the road. we start talking about trying to prove a war crime or a crime of any kind. because then you talk about the credibility of the evidence. it's been tampered with. the major point of a credible evidence is it has a complete chain of custody. where was it located. who picked it up. would transferred it. where did it go from there. we see it disappearing into a white tent here. >> when the president said what are you hiding, what are the pieces of evidence that could be decisive either now or down the road? >> i think if they are trying to hide something, it's pretty futile. the evidence on screen will substantiate the evidence they've already got. what they've got now is they know they see the missile go. they see the missile hit. any reasonable person would say that means they shot down the airplane. so what they might be trying to
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hide is any type of residue. remember, there won't be any explosive residue in this because the missile explodes before it impacts the aircraft. the only thing that goes through the aircraft are debris, metal debris. there may be some residual, but not much. so they may be trying to hide that. >> the question the flight data recorder. we know that -- it sounds as though rebels may have it, may not. how important is it? because, again, it's a very different situation than the plane crashes that we've seen in the past. >> it's very important, because of the fact they need to know if iff system, if friend or foe system, was working on the aircraft. had they been monitoring that and it was not on, on the aircraft, it could have been mistaken as a military airplane. >> the new fanciyful claim from the ministry there was a ukrainian jet flying by. perhaps if that was the case, on
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these black box, there might be some evidence of communication. >> very much so and warnings as well. if warnings had been attempted to the aircraft. they were tuned to the wrong station or -- excuse me, the radio frequencies and not able to receive that. all of this comes into play. and if it's not available, again, it goes back ton the credibility of that evidence. >> i was just thinking about this. it's one thing to investigate a crash. it's another thing to be investigating with all of these mitigating and powerful forces at play. david soucie, we appreciate it, thank you so much. >> four days, is that too much? >> it's way too much. primarily because of the dignity of the people that are there. >> that is the biggest concern. want to say thank you for joining us for a truncacated version of "that the hour." >> anderson cooper begins right after this short break. a body at rest tends to stay at rest...cs... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion.
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good afternoon, everyone. i'm anderson cooper. thank you for joining us. we begin this hour with breaking news on the downing of mh 17 in eastern ukraine. president obama speaking moments ago from the white house. again, calling out russia in the deaths of 298 people. >> russia has extraordinary influence over these separatists. no one denies that. russia has urged them on. russia has trained them. we know that russia has armed them with military equipment and weapons, including anti-aircraft weapons. key separatist leaders are russian

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