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tv   CNN Tonight With Don Lemon  CNN  December 2, 2016 8:00pm-9:01pm PST

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such good and important work for the environment. together, we're building a better california. looks like the trump and the clinton camps are a long way from burying the hatchet. this is cnn tonight. i'm don lemon. things turn ugly when top aide to donald trump and hillary clinton clash in a panel discussion at harvard. >> i would rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> do you think i ran a campaign where white supremacist -- >> meanwhile the intelligence community convinced they med eld -- what's putin's end game? is donald trump playing with fire with russia? >> plus, we all saw it with our own eyes. a black man shot with a white --
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the michael slager case. we'll get to a grudge match between top aide at kennedy school of politics. zev zeleny has more. >> there were no conciliatory handshakes for the losers or offers of congratulations for the winners. i was there and the tension was incredibly thick. harvard has been hosting the forums since 1972 when nixon defeated mcgovern. the trump/clinton race was explosive with finger pointing and shouting each side trying to make one last argue umgt for history. a combustible mix of raw emotions and hard feelings as top advisers to donald trump and hillary clinton came face to face for the first time since the election. the clinton team bluntly accusing the trump campaign of
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fueling racism to help win the white house. >> if providing a plate form tore white supremist makes me a brilliant tactics i'm glad to have lost. >> i would rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> no you wouldn't. >> that's clear today, no you wouldn't. >> jennifer palmieri and kellyanne conway tangling over steve bannon. >> if they bury -- very important moment in our history of our country and i think as his presidency goes forward, i'm glad to have been part of the campaign -- >> do you think i ran a campaign where white supremacy had a -- >> you did. >> do you think you have a message for the white working class voters? this woman who has nothing in common -- >> a post mortgage 'em on -- erupted in this series of extraordinary exchanges. at the institute of politics at
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harvard university's kennedy school of government. the advisers looked one another squarely in the eye across a table as they argued about clinton winning the popular vote and trump the electoral college. >> it's hard to say we lost popular votes. >> there was nothing that said the road to popular vote anywhere -- >> kelly anne, i started, i premised my statement by saying that. >> we won seriously. why is there no mandate? you've lost 60 congressional seats since president obama got there. you've lost more than a dozen senators and governors. 1,000 state -- you re-elected a guy who represents san francisco as your leaders. nothing from this election. >> the forum, a civil academic exercise in most elections is intended to write a first draft of history of the campaign. amid the shouting, the conversation offered a window into why trump aides believe he won. despite a string of offensive comments. >> one thing miss all along in
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this election is something that we noticed early on, which is there's a difference to voters between what offends you and what affects you. >> and why clinton's aides acknowledged struggling. >> voters overwhelmingly wanted change and we saw that. i think anybody looking at the race saw that. and obviously that did create headwinds for hillary. >> so as the clinton team, are they in denial or defending her? perhaps a little bit of both. i can tell you it was far more time spent criticizing trump by the clinton team than looking into the mirror about why they lost. they're talking about the votes, wisconsin, pennsylvania, michigan, that she'd be had she won those. millennial voters, they believe fell off sharply at the end after the fbi director sent that letter out. they said for the first time, edward snowden, the whistle blower, he urged young voters to pick a third party candidate. that also played a role in this. regardless of this, the trump
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campaign says from the beginning, voters were looking for something different. those winds of change were blowing pretty hard. >> thanks very much. his margin of victory from pennsylvania and wisconsin and michigan even narrower, just 82-424 total votes. now i want to bring in a few people. >> there is no denying this was an ugly campaign. there are hard hard feelings. should democrats move on now? >> the whole point of this session was to actually look backwards and so i think it's inevitable that the pain and suffering would have been coming to the forefront. look, this was actually razor-thin and i think knowing -- it gets more razor-thin every day as the votes are finalized. this is a team that worked their butt off for two years, gave up
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a lot and believed in this. it was personal. you know, kellyanne said something, i don't necessarily disagree with her. she said we realize that voters care more about what affects them than what offends them. that's a good line. but i think what was happening for the clinton team for our side is, what was said was affecting us. it was affecting our people and so i think it made it extra personal. >> uh-huh. why did you say it was a good point, david? >> i think hillary is right thon on that score. kellyanne conway, she did have a fair point there. maybe voters voted for trump because he was talking about things that affected them versus offended them. but there were millions and millions of people out there who were offended and took offense at trump calling judge cure yell, saying he couldn't do his job because he was mexican.
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>> that affects mexicans not just offends them. >> affects and offends. >> right. >> yeah. >> president-elect trump, being at one point at least the public face of the birther movement, on and on, et cetera, et cetera. so i think kellyanne conway has a basic overall point that democrats need to look to the future. but i think that democrats, including jennifer palmieri have a point that the trump campaign ran a divisive, nasty at times campaign. >> john, i want you to weigh in. it's a divisive campaign, people called it vicious, ridiculed people, insulted women and minorities, told a lot of lies about the electoral system, the press. as kellyanne conway admitted there, said people are more concerned about what affected them than offended them. so they weren't afraid to offend people. is he responsible for the bad feelings that remain? >> well, look, partisanship has
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existed long before donald trump. this came pain was vicious, campaigns in the past have been vicious. >> i think the larger issue as to why the nerves are so raw with the clinton folks, they never expected to lose. they went into election day thinking they were going to win. they thought donald trump was a joke, treated him like a joke. they didn't think he had a credible campaign with any shot at all of winning the industrial midwest states. he ended up pulling it out and they were shellshocked. what you saw at that forum at harvard was then repeated the same mistakes they made during the campaign. instead of looking at the mirror, the mistakes they made, they're attacking donald trump, they're continuing to go after him. and what have the democrats done since then? they re-elected nancy pelosi as minority leader in the house. elevated chuck schumer. >> echoing what kellyanne conway
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said. >> right. >> to give you that point. i think she has a point there as well. do you think that -- do the clinton folks have a point about the nastiness of the campaign, about the fake stories, about the negativity, about what hillary and what david said about what made the -- maybe what is offensive to people, it affects their lives when you say that the first black president should show his birth certificate. that affects african-americans. >> look, the general election wasn't any nastier than the primary election. the primary was a vicious process. >> that's not an answer to the question, though. john, honestly, that's not an answer to my question. >> don, if i can just -- >> hold on, you're answering my question with another question about the election. >> no. i'm saying election are nasty all the time and people get over it. >> i agree with that. come on, john. we sat here for, what, 18 months
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and said oh, my gosh, some of the things donald trump said, you couldn't believe he said it. >> many of those things by the way were said in the primary. john mccain remark was said in the primary. >> the common denominator was donald trump. he won the election fair and square. i agree with john that democrats need to start looking forward. but i don't think it's wrong tore democrats to point out some of the divisive language used by trump and others of the surrogates both in the primary and the general. >> part of, i think, the frustration boiled over in the last two days and we're talking about it again is we made a big mistake as democrats in chasing the bright shiny objects of rhetoric. we thought that would be enough. somebody who acted this way would never be elected president. and polls showed repeatedly and the exit polls showed people didn't think he was fit to be president. but they voted for him anyway.
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>> that's what john just said. >> that's my point. what i'm saying is i think as democrats we thought that that was going to be -- that was the campaign. it wasn't the campaign hillary clinton started. she started a campaign on education and family, medical leave and equal pay and criminal justice reform. we ended it on this guy just can't be our president. and so i think that the point that kellyanne made that our team had a hard time hearing yesterday, because it's painful to hear is, you know what, people really just don't care when you insult them. when you insult other people. there weren't enough people who cared about insults. really the change issue like wanting something different, moving away from the current administration was a more powerful message. i think that just hurt. >> at a certain point, too, democrats have to acknowledge the elephant in the room.
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they nominated a bad candidate. >> joe biden was the -- >> hold the thought to the other side. we'll be right back everyone. y when growth presents itself? american express open cards can help you take on a new job, or fill a big order or expand your office and take on whatever comes next. find out how american express cards and services can help prepare you for growth at find out how american express cards and services imy moderate to severeng crohn's disease. i didn't think there was anything else to talk about. but then i realized there was.
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we're back. donald trump doubling down defending his phone conversation with the president of taiwan. hillary rose with me and -- john, uyou were making a point. >> i think part of the equation is that the democrats nominated a bad candidate. if they had joe biden at the top
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of the ticket, is there any doubt they would have performed better in pennsylvania and michigan and probably ohio and the midwestern states or if barack obama's name was on the ballot, is there any doubt that he would have performed better than her? >> i love joe bidens, love him. but i don't think this was our year. i don't think this was because hillary clinton was a bad candidate. i think it was a change year and low motivation from our side. i think this sort of a fallac that if it was another senior democrat we would have won. >> do you agree with that? >> i tend to think that biden could have done better in pennsylvania imt i think elizabeth warren would have been a better candidate. secretary clinton could have won. it was razor-thin. i think down the stretch, her campaign was reliant on this message of being against trump rather than having a positive policy message, something that
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hillary alluded to earlier. >> to hilary rosen's point, the idea of the symposium today was to look back. instead of looking forward. so now, let's come to the future, back to the future. >> now to taiwan. >> exactly. let's talk about the news of donald trump's call to the taiwan president. foreign policy experts have been worried about donald trump's off the cuff casual style in talking with foreign leaders. what do you think the fallout is going to be. first, hilary? >> i'm about to shock john phillips here. >> uh-oh. >> i don't really care if he up ends our china strategy. you know, i don't think that 40 years of a single policy is sack row sank. what bothers me more than his desire to have a different policy is a lack of respect for
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some of the -- in the daily intelligence briefings -- [ overlapping talking ]. >> so i think that kind of showing respect to some of the professionals to our president, to our state department would be a nice thing to do before you go in and simply up end something because a guy on your transition team has long had a bug up -- you know for taiwan. which is clearly what seemed to happen. like there's one guy said make my career and talk to the premi premier. he's the president, he gets to do -- he'll get to do that. >> david, i had three generals on and one of them said maybe it's a phone call to hilary's point he can do whatever he wants with foreign policy. but he should wait until he's in the white house because there's someone in the white house now.
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as you know, china called the white house and said what gives? >> three quick points. one, as you said, there is one president at a time. each though donald trump is about to take over, president barack obama is still the president, still in charge of america's foreign policy. number two, like hilary, i'm not a china expert. it's okay if donald trump says look, i want to make some changes to our china policy. but it has to be done carefully. not only do we recognize the people's republic of china and not taiwan, but taiwan's president is a member of the dpp party, which is more ant thetical to the one china policy than others in taiwan. lastly, the idea at the end of the day, there are hotspots all around the world. even if china is a frenemy or a country we have conflicts with, they're a permanent member of the u.n. security council. like us, you have to deal with them delicately. not just sort of make a call out
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of the blue or take a call out of the blue that could affect diplomatic relations for months or years to come. >> john, is trump doing things his own way or is it time to admit he needs more guidance from others? >> i don't know if you're aware of this, don, but trump likes the pat on the back once in a while. but taking the call from the president of taiwan for a congratulations. >> it's a she by the way. >> also we're getting word that some of the advisers may have facilitated this. >> they did the same thing with the president of japan and the philippines. if it was possible for him to go on the ouija board to get congratulations from annual brenner, he'd do that too. >> john, whose side are you on? >> that's the craziness of this. we're sort of making foreign policy by personality and i'm not sure that's in our nation's
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long-term interest. if it was sort of a more thoughtful analysis and you could trust it, make a change. understand the risks here. >> thank you. have a good weekend. >> thanks, don. >> take care. did russia interfere in our election to give donald trump the win? and what's vladimir putin's end game? and if she drives like this, you can tell her to drive more like this. because you'll get this. you can even set boundaries for so if she should be here, but instead goes here, here, or here. you'll know. so don't worry, mom. because you put this, in here. hum by verizon. the technology designed to make your car smarter, safer and more connected. put some smarts in your car. so why are you still puttingy. up with complicated cash back cards? some cards limit where you earn bonus cash back to places they choose... then they change those places every few months.
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on xfinity x1. let's go to the russia meddled in our election. jim sciutto has more on that. >> there is new information that russia's election-related harking is believed to have been intended to steer the election to donald trump. democrats now want president obama to make this information public. democratic senators are pressing the obama administration to more forthrightly state based in part on new intelligence that russia's meddling in the u.s. election was intended to help donald trump. multiple sources tell cnn the democratic pressure comes as multiple sources with knowledge of the investigation tell cnn that the u.s. intelligence
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community is increasingly confident that russian hacking intended to steer the election toward trump rather than to simply undermine the political process. the sources, however, do not see the new information as significantly changing the intelligence agency's understanding of russian motives since the democratic party was the principal target of the hacks. seven democrats on the senate's intelligence committee wrote president obama yesterday insisting such intelligence should be "declassified and released." the letter did not specify what the new information was. senator angus king signed the letter. >> i think the involvement is the biggest story of the decade and i think it's going to grow. adam schiff wants to see more information public. specific to russia's involvement. >> they largely accomplished their mission of -- maybe even tipping the balance in part in favor of mr. trump and against
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secretary clinton. >> but republican lawmakers down played the letter telling cnn there was no new information to suggest the intelligence community has changed its overall assessment in any way. one month before the election the intelligence community publicly declared they were "confident the russian government directed compromises of e-mails from u.s. persons and institutions, including from u.s. political orpganizations." . noting wikileaks. the intelligence community has not previously publicly indicated that russia's intention was to help donald trump over his democratic opponent hillary clinton. just after the election, director of national intelligence, james clapper, told congress he expects russian hacking to continue. >> i don't anticipate a significant change in russian behavior. russians have a very active and
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aggressive capability to conduct information operations. so-called hybrid warfare. >> in his annual address to parliament yesterday, russian president vladimir putin dismissed the claim as nits. they said "this is nothing more than sour grapes from partisan democrats upset that hillary clinton lost." now, to be clear, democratic lawmakers are telling cnn it's not about who won, the election is behind them, but about the integrity of the u.s. electoral process. clapper told congress that he expects such hacks to continue. thank you very much. i want to discuss this with jonathan sanders from the stony brook school of journalism. thank you for coming on. what was your take on russia's involvement in the election. what was their motivation, do you think? >> well, don, first of all, i
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think that to embarrass ourselves in our elections, you saw it yourself with some of your guest this is your studio. we didn't need the russians' help. everyone likes to have someone to blame. when the soviet union was falling apart, the top adviser on america said to me, you're going to miss us. you could blame us for everything. it may be that compromising material came through the russians. but they were only the source. they didn't make the compromising material. when the fbi number two man fed information, did we blame the fbi telling what was unsavory going on in the nixon white house. there's some cold war things going on here. jim sciutto, i think he got it backwards. it's not that they wanted trump. they just did not want the clintons. the clinton clique is seen as
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creating many of the pressures that plague and trouble russia today. betraying the pledge not to expand nato, revolutions around the country, encouraging revolution in kiev. they really didn't like hillary. trump is an open book. he's like the kid in the hans christian anderson story who finally says the king is naked. why don't we have better relations with russia? it's a really good question. maybe it will turn out we don't have good relations with russia for good geopolitical reasons. but we shouldn't assume in the cold war mentality that's the way it's going to be. >> you think that the preference was -- the preference was just not to have hillary clinton, not a clinton white house rather than to have a trump white house? >> yeah. i mean, the bonus was that trump seems -- trump doesn't care about human rights very much from what he says. trump thinks that everything is a deal that's negotiable.
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it depends on money. money has no morality. trump pushes around reporters. putin shoots reporters. that's a kind of a difference, but they could be on the same line. >> he's also -- >> putin praised trump i should say. >> concerned about isis and -- there are people fighting there with them who, when they come home, will make the explosions that went on in paris a year ago or what happened in new york or what happened in the marathon bombing seem like kids play. the russians know that. they have a huge problem with radical agents coming out of radical islam. yeah, they want to do that together. >> i said putin has praised trump. what will a trump/putin relationship look like? >> well, first of all, putin did not praise trump.
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he said he was a yarkey character which was mistranslated. it's a word that's like a colorful, vibrant, over the top. he said that. what did i think? it's going to start with asking new and different questions. i think that the idea that perhaps america will stop its boycott and recognize the russian takeover of crimea gives mr. trump a wonderful opening and opportunity to make a deal. maybe the deal is that the russians establish a 50-mile free zone, no weapons, no nothing around the three states, lithuania, latvia and estonia. we don't know. but the relations have gotten so bad, one guy calls it the new cold war. we've gone up again to talk
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about -- finding those areas when we can cooperate. otherwise, we're going to push china and russia together against us. the starting point is aretha franklin. aretha franklin? yeah. give russia some respect. putin said in his address yesterday that he wanted to be treated as an equal. well, let's start out -- trump seems pretty good at praising people. maybe he needs to start out with the aretha franklin doctrine, a little respect will you. >> at least you didn't spell it. thank you jonathan sanders. stony brook university. the murder case that shocked the country. a black man shot to death by a white police officer caught on camera. now could the whole case come down to one juror? ♪ ♪
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jury deliberations resume in the trial in the shooting of walter scott, an unarmed black man. [ bleep ] the case was on the
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verge of a mistrial but the jury returned to deliberate three times after indicating to the judge that it was unable to reach a consensus. let's discuss with cedric alexander, the author of the new guard ans. legal analyst laura coates and a jae from the police officers association. cedric, you're first. this is a case where prosecutors arrested michael slager, the police officer because the evidence was so clear. now the jury may not be able to reach a verdict. what's your reaction? >> you know, certainly the appearance from the video that we've seen a thousand times over the last number of months appears to be very clear to many of us who are watching it, it is certainly of grave concern. but now this case is going to a jury and a jury is going to have an opportunity to decide based on the facts that's being presented in front of them. i think it's going to be tough for a lot of americans across this country to witness what they have saw and not walk away
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feeling as if somehow this is very unusual. but the judicial system is what it is. and we'll wait and see what decision is rendered. >> here's part of the cell phone video that's central to this ca case. [ bleep ]. >> jeffrey, we've all seen the tape of the shooting and so many people, to so many it seemed like a slam-dunk, a police officer shooting at an unarmed man. we didn't see that part of the video but what's your reaction? >> don, i've said before on the show, this is the most troubling of all the post-ferguson police encounters that we've experienced and i am kind of surprised that the jury is
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having trouble reaching a verdict. they do have the benefit that those of us watching on tv don't. weave seen this video a thousand times. but they've heard all the evidence. critically, they've gotten the testimony from officer slager and they've looked at his eyes and at least one of them has doubt that he can't seem to overcome. >> laura, to you now. from a legal perspective, you say that this shows how difficult it is to convict police officers of even the most appalling crimes. explain that. >> well -- >> by the way, we've seen enough of that video. thank you. >> go ahead. >> this is such a clear-cut case of somebody using excessive force. but even the local police union refused to pay michael slager's legal fees in this case. this is an example of most people don't realize when you have a jury, and there's an officer even testifying, let alone an officer being the defendant in the case, that most
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prosecutors and defense counsel will require the judge to ask the jurors, listen, will you give more credibility, more credence to what an officer may testify just because they're an officer than the average person and you'd be shocked, don, to know how many people indeed say, well, yes, there's an inherent level of trust that we give to officers in this country that's a sword and shield for officers around the country. when people talk about the preface, we talk about it over and over again, that most officers are great, that's the preface we all give. this is an example of one bad apple does not ruin the bunch. we have this case of officer michael slager or former officer michael slager being that bad apple. what the video shows is not an example of somebody who has an immediate threat of lethal force being applied to them. what you have instead is a man who is 18 feet away when he's actually shot. and yes, i do believe that the
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justice system is supposed to work in a way we require unanimity from jurors. nothing less would be -- we have one holdout and flec11 in favor conviction. reasonable doubt requires you be reasonable. >> here's a police officer testifying that he felt total fear because walter scott was resisting arrest. >> i just -- >> in my mind, fear, i was scared. with everything leading up to this from the run, to not cooperating to the final -- mr. scott, coming after us while we were on the ground, the chest area, then us breaking apart, as i was standing up and coming at
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me again. total fear that mr. scott didn't stop. continued towards me. >> so jeffrey, looking at the cell phone video, walter scott, this is a freeze frame of it. i think that you should only show this video if you have a specific reason to show it, not just have it. i didn't mean to sound rude earlier. but you're basically watching someone die there. if you look at this, walter scott is unarmed and running away from the police officer, not toward him. does slager's defense make sense to you? >> well, don, we all agree that the only piece of evidence we saw was that video. we'd all convict. that video standing alone doesn't leave any explanation for the officer's conduct. but, again, at least one juror is at least wrestling with whether this was reasonable, whether the officer was really in fear for his life.
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probably he's wrestling a little bit with the question of the decedent's behavior beforehand. there is some thought here and it's really probably shouldn't be part of the jury's deliberation. but if this man hadn't been wanted for felony child support that he'd still be alive today. i'm not saying that that justifies any of this. but i'm saying that these -- >> that's probably what they're wrestling with. cedric, quickly, i'm short on time here. how much impact do you think slager's testimony had on the jury? >> i don't think it had very much to be quite honest with you. if you have 11 people leaning toward a guilty verdict and you have one holdout, the troubling piece with this video, don x even though we may say we don't see things in the entirety from beginning to end, but we have been able to see and even though we weren't there, there's something troubling about this
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and something troubling about officer slager suggesting that he was in such great fear that he shot a man in the back a number of times running away from him. >> cedric, i have to go. motivational speaker james arthur ray convicted in the death of three clients in a sweat lodge. now he wants a second chance in the self-help industry. ♪
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you want to see this film and enlighten us. the rise and fall of james arthur ray. it tells a story of. the motivational speaker convicted in the killing of three of his sweat lodge -- >> he would create the challenges. >> they were manufactured challenges. but they became an opportunity for realizing that you could do something that you didn't think that could you do. [ applause ] >> they seemed to get more and more elevated in difficulty. >> just look eye to eye. connect eye to eye here. >> joining me now, james arthur ray. is it uncomfortable when i say that you were convicted and you went to prison? does that make you uncomfortable to hear that? >> of course. it's nothing i ever expected. >> watching your body language.
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>> it's uncomfortable for me to watch the documentary. >> why did you do it? >> well, two reasons, don. first of all, several people approached me about different projects and, excuse me, doing different things. some of them were going to actually pay me to be involved in those. i didn't feel right about that given the situation, the tragedy and the circumstances. when allison approached me about in project. she felt i had been done wrong by the system. it had been manipulated and misused. i thought, wow. a large percentage of our country feels like the system is rigged. as we've heard a lot of lately. so this might be a good opportunity to really speak to the people. obvious obviously, it's not the movie that ended up being made.
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i was hopeful that people would watch this and say that if he went through all of that, maybe i could develop -- >> sense of hope and resilience and hope to continue. >> another clip from the film, enlighten us. >> symbolically, when you're going into a lodge, you're going back into the i have been anticipating it all day long because by the
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second or third round, i am thinking why the hell am i me? it will be the most intense heat that you will ever experienced in your entire life. you will feel as if you are going to die. when you emerge, you will be a different person. >> so you know what happened after that. i saw when you were being sentenced, the judge says you know something to the effect of the power, you are a powerful person. did you realize by doing something like this of the power that you had over people? >> well, i don't really believe i had power over people. i think -- i don't think any of us do. we have power ourselves, we are not going to give that power away. that's the decision we make. the people that participates as much as the media wanted to or whatever historically of the situation, they participated willfully and they were told as
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you saw in the clip, they were told of the dangers and they made a choice and they did that willfully. the family ies of three people o dies, you were in ophra and the movie, "the secret," and a lot of people entrusted you with their lives. how did you feel about what happened that day? >> if you check the record, don, i apologize profusely. if you watch the documentary, i do that in the documentary. if you watch pearce morgan on your station here, i spent a whole hour broken and an distinguishing and apologizing. nothing i can say is going to be enough. the unfortunate truth is that my greatest critic who said her daughter was -- that was one of
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the reasons why her daughter was there, looking to find clarity around her own life and above and beyond what her family and friends and society imposed and telling her what she should do. that was what everybody was doing frankly. >> why did you think this happens to you. why do you think? >> well, i cannot speak for anyone but myself. everyone has to interpret life situations through their own eyes and their own perception, i think life throws us curveballs and a lot of us in this country have been thrown curveballs in the last several years. we have to utilize that situati. >> it is fascinating. >> thank you, you can see james arthur ray's film, "enlighten us." make sure you tune in, it is fascinating. we'll be right back.
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voting is under way for cnn heroes of the year. here is our top cnn heroes. meet omar. if you look at healthcare professionals, we have six villages that had zero access to healthcare. to go back to where i am born, it was a sense of responsibilities. we see ten of the villagers going in the facility, making sure drugs and facilities are available. being here and close to home to be able to fill some of the gaps and accessing healthcare, it is been an iv drip for life and purpose. you can see the impact in 0.1 second. i have absolutely zero regret
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for taking the leap of faith. vote for uma and any of your top ten heroes right now on >> that's it for us tonight, thank you for watching. my name is mike rogers. i had access to classified information gathered. people who risk everything for the united states and our families. you don't know their faces or their names. you don't know the real stories from the people more live the fears and the pressure until now. there is accumulation of access. >> i think it is betrayal that gets


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