tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 13, 2017 5:00pm-6:00pm PDT
joining us. don't forget, watch "outfront" anytime, anywhere. "ac 360" begins right now. good evening. thanks for joining us. we begin with the president's defense of his son and his koimted misstatements of facts. continuing because there's a pattern which includes making bold claims unsupported by facts or contradicted by them. leveling allegations about individuals with big attribution, or no attribution at all, unless somebody said somehow counts, which it doesn't. in paris, for bastille day, standing next to his french counterpart, he defended the meeting his son had last year with a russian lawyer. a lawyer his son was told was a russian government lawyer with information from the russian government. he's a wonderful young man, the president said, making is sound like trump junior isn't the exact same age as the president of france is. >> i think from a practical standpoint, most people would
have taken that many. it's called opposition research, or even research into your opponent. i've had many people, i've only been in politics for two years, but i've had many people call up, oh, gee, we have information on this factor or this person, or frankly, hillary. that's very standard in politics. politics is not the nicest business in the world but it's very standard where they have information and you take the information. >> the lawyer he said was not a government lawyer. the meeting went, in his words, very quickly. one of the other two people in the room left quickly, the other one tuned out. the intest to frame the meeting as no big deal. just the facts, which the president glosses over. the lawyer may or may not be a private lawyer. that's not what trump junior knew or thought when he agreed to see her. look at the e-mail from the go-between rob goldstone. they asked that i schedule a meeting with you and the russian government attorney flying over
from moscow for this thursday. the two others in the room, they weren't just random couple of guys. they were jared kushner and paul manafort. who was or wasn't really paying attention, we only have trump junior's account and that of the russian lawyer. let's take it at face value for a moment, that he and the president said nothing came out of the meeting. the lawyer, they say, did not bring the dirt, which the president said makes it really no big deal. but again, keep them honest, the big deal is what trump junior thought he was getting, which was information, presumably intelligence from the government, a big foreign adversary. information important enough to bring in kushner and manafort. this is obviously very high level and sensitive information but it's part of russia and government support for mr. trump. trump junior's reply? if it's what you say, i love it. especially later in the summer. news that the kremlin is backing your father in the election. sounds like a pretty big deal, not a big fat nothing the
president says it was. remember, his son's biggest complaint about the whole thing is that the woman did not deliver. which brings us to the president's auxiliary defense we heard today, even if she did bring the goods, and we only have the son's words that she didn't, but if she did, the president said it's the thing that happens all the time. it is totally completely the opposite. every campaign professional we've spoken to, republicans, democrats alike say what makes the meeting newsworthy is how uncommon this is. as for what should be done when approached, the way junior was, who are you going to believe, or president's choice for fbi director? >> let me ask you this. if i got a call from somebody saying the russian government wants to hef lindsey graham get reelected, they got dirt on lindsey graham's opponent, should i take that meeting? >> senator, i would think you would want to consult with some good legal advisers before you did that. >> so the answer is, should i call the fbi? >> i think it would be wise to the members of this committee,
any threat or effort to interfere with our elections from any nation state, or any nonstate actor, is the kind of thing the fbi would want to know. >> the president did more than just minimize what happened after his son decided to schedule the meeting instead of calling the fbi, he also sought to blame others for the russian lawyer even being in the country, including president obama's attorney general, loretta lynch. >> now, the lawyer that went to the meeting, i see she was in the halls of congress also. somebody said that her visa, or her passport to come into the country was approved by attorney general lynch. now, maybe that's wrong. i just heard that a little while ago. i was surprised to hear that. so she was here because of lynch. >> a spokesman said the former attorney general neither has any personal knowledge of her role here, that the state department issues the visas and department
of homeland security approves entry into the united states and at airports. >> somebody said that her visa, or her passport, to come into the country, was approved by attorney general lynch. >> this is the most powerful man in the world, a formal press conference, standing next to another head of state, president of france in a foreign capital, leveling an allegation at the top law enforcement official and predecessor's administration, backing up that allegation. a serious one, unless the meeting was no big deal as the president also said it was. backing up his allegation with somebody set. if we attributed a story with damaging information to somebody, we would be facing a libel lawsuit and deservedly so. the president of the united states and before that candidate trump has made a habit of it. mr. trump also defended his son on the flight over. as part of another continuing pattern, he cast out the entire notion that russia hacked the
election. >> i'm not saying it wasn't russia, what i'm saying is we have to protect ourselves no matter who it is. china is very good at this. i hate to say it, but north korea is very good at this. he suggests individuals might be responsible. this time he didn't talk about the individuals weighing 400 pounds. keeping them honest, we'll keep repeating that phrase, here's what his own intelligence officials have to say, not president obama's intelligence officials, or retired intelligence officials, president trump's current intelligence officials. >> assembled leadership of the intelligence community. do you believe that the january 2017 intelligence community assessment accurately characterized the extent of russian activities in the 2016 election, and its conclusion that russian intelligence agencies were responsible for the hacking and leaking of information, and using misinformation in order to influence our elections? simple yes or no who suffice.
>> yes, i do. yes, senator. >> yes, i do. >> yes, i do. >> yes. >> yes. >> more now on the president's trip. jeff, even though the president has traveled all the way to paris, it does seem like he can't escape questions regarding russian involvement in the election and lengthy answers as well. >> reporter: good evening, anderson. he can't escape questions. for a couple of reasons. one, russian meddling is hardly a local u.s. concern. russian meddling is a concern in every democracy, every place there is elections, including here in france. that's one of the reasons, of course, it was on the minds of many people here. french reporters as well. but it was clear in that press conference, you played the sound just a few moments ago, the president was speaking like a father today. he said his son is a good man and there's zero evidence that anything happened in that meeting. that did little to sort of quell the concern of republicans on capitol hill. senator chuck grassley first and
foremost, chairman of the judiciary committee, said he wants to see donald trump jr. next week. the former campaign chairman manafort is likely to have a date with congress next week as well. as much as the president wants to discount this or move on from this or change the subject, even here in paris, he cannot do that. it's not just pesky reporters who are asking this question, it's coming up in his meetings, et cetera. it's also perhaps more importantly on his mind. when he was flying over here last evening, he talked with a group of reporters on air force one. no fewer than five times did he call this a witch hunt. he said it's stirred by democrats, stirred by the media. that is a sign that he has not yet accepted this. the reality is, republicans on capitol hill in both the house and senate are leading these investigations. the special prosecutor appointed by his own justice department. so that is something clearly, it's on everyone else's mind, but clearly on the top of his
mind as well. >> both presidents seemed to be going far out of their way to emphasize they have a good relationship, including president trump raising the possibility of some movement on the paris climate accord. >> reporter: no question. so much has happened since that early tense handshake at the end of may in brussels when they had their first meeting. there is a lot to be gained for both of them by having this sort of good relationship here. france's president puts it front and center, how important france is as he's building his new leadership. for president trump, he is a little bit concerned about america being as isolated. but it was on the climate change agreement that he seemed to open the door at least a crack today for a possible change of heart. let's listen. >> something could happen with respect to the paris accord. we'll see what happens. but we will talk about that over the coming period of time.
and if it happens, that will be wonderful. and if it doesn't, that will be okay, too. but we'll see what happens. but we did discuss many things today, including the ceasefire in syria, and we discussed ukraine, we discussed a lot of different topics. we briefly hit on the paris accord. and we'll see what happens. >> reporter: now, i think a reality check tonight is there's very little chance of the u.s. going back into that climate accord here. but it was striking watching those two leaders. one 71-year-old president from the united states, one 39-year-old new leader here in france. they both have a lot to gain from being together here. and tomorrow, they will be together again in the morning at that bastille day parade. but you've got the sense that the president has used paris as a punch line. so often he was running for office. today he was filled with flattering to his host.
>> jeff, thanks very much. joining us is charles, and jeffrey lord and scott jennings. charles, first of all, on the whole idea that something could happen on the paris climate accord, the president has pulled out of the paris climate accord. when he did, he said, maybe we can renegotiate something. maybe that's what he's referring to? but the idea he'll suddenly backtrack seems ludicrous. >> there's no reason for us to try to struggle to make this make sense. the president says whatever pleases the audience that he's pandering to. that's what he does. so whether or not it is true, whether or not it holds any weight, i never put any weight in it. i'm kind of judging him by his actions. and his actions do not dictate that he has any opening on this at all. >> it's interesting, scott, to charles' point, the president talks tough about a lot of things. it is true when he's in front of somebody else, he seems to -- i mean, he was asked about comments he made about paris being, according to his friend jim, who nobody can seem to
understand who his friend jim is, paris isn't paris anymore, it's not the same because of terrorism and immigration, and yet when he's there and asked about it, you know, he talks about how lovely paris is and a great city, and because the president, he wants to come back to. it. >> the president of the united states is not in france to spit in the face of the french president, to make fun of the french people, to make fun of paris, he's over there to continue to build our alliance with france. i think it makes perfect sense we would make the pomp and circumstance and politeness and diplomatic speak that you would expect out of the united states. >> even on the climate accord? >> his position on this is well known. it was the same in the campaign as when he made the decision. i don't anticipate that is going to change. i think he probably thought he was giving a polite answer there. i certainly think republicans don't want him to have a change of heart on that. the reality is, he's there to build a strong relationship with an old ally. i think he had a pretty successful day doing that. it appears they put any awkwardness in their
relationship behind them. that's a good thing. there's a desire for the two countries to fight terror, which the president talked a lot about today. i think the american people cared a lot about what they had to say on that topic. >> the idea that it's standard operating procedure to do what donald trump jr. did, which is meet with somebody who you believe is representing a foreign government. that's just not factually correct. according to every campaign person we've talked to. >> right. i think it's natural for him to be a dad, and talk about how his son is a good kid. >> but he's not a kid. >> i think he was sort of trying to create this sense that he must be forgiven because he didn't really know what he was doing. listen, no one in the white house around him thinks this meeting was not consequential in the e-mail, and don junior's response what was in the e-mail. it wasn't, oh, the russian government? what do you mean is helping my father? all of them know that this is
consequential. and they're very afraid of what this means. but his reaction is typical donald trump. it's not surprising at all. he turns it around to what he wants it to be. he's defiant about the political ramifications. he finds someone to blame. he's a very skilled blamer. he's done it his whole life. he will never, ever say anyone around him, especially his family or himself made a mistake. he'll barrel through on this kind of defiant response. even though the people around him are trying to help him succeed are very worried about what the fallout from this meeting means going forward. because it's the first time that someone close to him showed a willingness, it doesn't mean donald junior is exposed in any way legally, but what it means about his willingness to take that meeting and what that e-mail said, is very consequential. >> jeff, we talked about this before. donald trump jr. has, since we talked, backtracked saying i would do things differently. >> right. >> do you still say that this is normal behavior to meet with a
representative, or a alleged representative of a foreign government? >> i do, absolutely. today on my way here i was reading a column from december of this past year by michael reagan, president reagan's son, who pointed out as this controversy was beginning that president carter sent the arm and hammer to the russian embassy in washington, to talk about getting some russian influence in the 1980 campaign against former governor reagan by releasing jewish nets in the soviet union, that would help certain key states. he also pointed out that president carter himself, as did tip o'neil in 1984, to make the pitch to the soviets for walter mondale. yes, this kind of thing has been done before. it's ridiculous -- >> do you think it's appropriate? >> i honestly don't think it's that big a deal.
should it be publicized? sure. i think that's a good thing. but if we're going to have -- i said this to you the other night, if we're going to have an investigation, let's open up the whole can of worms about russia, the clinton foundation and hillary clinton and john podesta, let's get it all out there so everybody can see what the involvement was or was not. >> what you're saying, but saying that implies that that stuff hasn't been reported, and the fbi has had plenty of opportunity to look into any of that, and i would assume if there was any there there, there would be investigations, because that was looked at and litigated a lot during the campaign. >> well, of course, the question is, why -- >> what there is, there is a real fbi investigation into russia now and the trump campaign. there is not one on -- >> it was not intentionally investigating -- >> he laid out this clear bill of indictment of secretary
clinton. and at the very end said there's nothing to see here. i mean, we don't need to litigate that. >> as a republican, do you believe this is just business as usual, meeting with foreign adversaries and attorneys? >> it's certainly true. people call campaigns all the time claiming they have information. it happens all the time. a lot of the things don't pan out. it's probably more rare to come from a foreign national. the e-mail chain is certainly a little unusual. in hindsight, i've heard donald trump jr. say i think i would have handled this differently. those of us who have been around the block a few times would have had the experience to know immediately what to do with it, which is to send it to the campaign's lawyer and let them tell you what the right answer is here. i think the fact that he's saying, i acknowledge i would have handled this differently, and i want to answer questions about it, tells us something about his mind-set -- >> you want him to turn over all his e-mails? >> i want them to cooperate with the investigation. he brought up the fact that hillary was investigated.
the trump folks, kushner, donald trump jr., they're saying, we're going to cooperate. so as a public posturing matter, i like that. that should give the public confidence that we're going to learn what happened and i think that's fine. >> in terms of confidence and transparency, donald trump jr. has only gone this far because he was forced to multiple times by "the new york times." >> absolutely. these guys are like a barrel of eels soaked in oil. they're twisting and turning and trying to make this not be exactly what it is. and what it is is a list of facts that he agreed to take this meeting, he thought that it was, according to that e-mail, russian government lawyer, that the russian government was supporting his father, and he did not do the right thing. and this whole idea that a 39-year-old man is supposed to get some -- that he's so naive and so innocent, he's just a little boy the way trump is talking about him in parition, no, he's not, he's a grown man.
people go to jail much younger than that for doing the wrong thing. he did the wrong thing and there's no way around that. it is highly inappropriate and he has to wait to figure out if it's also criminal. but it is highly inappropriate, it is not normal, it is not right. >> i still think about the barrel of eels in oil. thanks to everybody's perspective. the remark the president, that he made to the french first lady that has some people saying, what? we'll be right back. the lincoln summer invitation is on. it's time for a getaway. now get our best offers of the season. on the agile mkc. on the versatile midsize lincoln mkx. or go where summer takes you in the exhilarating mkz.
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pull out of it. the paris accord is a series of voluntary agreements that the united states has set, for example, the united states has set its own targets. it can adhere to them or not adhere to them. there's no punishment mechanism. the united states could have stayed in the paris accord and done whatever he wanted to do for coal or whatever. he did it for symbolic reasons. it is unlikely he would undo it. >> then why have a paris accord at all? >> that's a good point. it created a certain kind of international norm and a standard, where everyone was trying to reach that standard, particularly countries like china and india, which had never taken part in it. but the chinese can re neeg on this, as can the united states. so trump's reneging on it was just about sending a signal to his base. so it wouldn't make any sense to renegotiate it. >> the president did say, to be fair, when he announced that the u.s. was going to pull out of
it, that he was going to be looking to renegotiate it in some way. >> it's 174 countries, the chance that you would have a renegotiation is zero. as everybody who was involved in this has said. the important thing to remember is, you know, we take presidential rhetoric very seriously. >> words coming out of the -- >> the words coming out of the president's mouth are very important. think about ronald reagan saying to gorbachev, tear down that wall. george bush sr. after the invasion of kuwait, these must not stand. these are measured and consequential. with donald trump that is simply not the case. donald trump just says what he feels at the moment -- it's kind of impresario performance where he's just saying what sounds right at the moment. i don't think anyone thinks he's going to come back into the paris deal. it's not even clear what that would mean. i don't think he does. at the moment it seemed like the right thing to say. >> he also reiterated this idea
that russia, that his belief that russia was maybe not behind this, that it could have been china, and he went on to say that if it was russia, we wouldn't even know about it. because i guess because they're so good at this sort of stuff. >> you know, that does strike me as somewhat interesting. because it's really part of a pattern. donald trump really dislikes almost every country in the world. he has always said nasty things about whether it's china, mexico, the european allies, the saudis, you know, particularly through the campaign. the one country he's always been favorably disposed to, gives them the benefit of the doubt is the russians. and this is consistent. it actually began about ten years ago. it is interesting coincidentally when russian money started pouring into the west that he went to moscow, the miss universe thing. he imagined he met vladimir putin. he claimed to have met him. >> and that they had a relationship. >> exactly.
but more importantly, he's always said nice things about russia, the russians, the russian government. and this is part of that pattern where he doesn't, for some reason as lindsey graham said, he's the one person in washington who doesn't believe the russians interfered in the democratic process. more importantly, who doesn't want a tough response. and i think that's in some ways the real intellectual puzzle here, why is donald trump so soft on the russians. maybe there's some benign explanation. you can't avoid the fact that uniquely among all the countries in the world, he has nice things to say about russia. >> fareed zakaria, thank you. fascinating. in the russia-white house watch, what the senate intelligence committee is looking from donald trump jr. and jared kushner next. cestry it brought us closer to understanding where i came from. finding out that i'm part native american and that i was related to one of the founding fathers i think has brought me closer to
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and donald trump jr., now that we know at least one e-mail change shows willingness to cooperate with russians. when kushner filled out the form to get a security clearance, the sf-86, he did not disclose the meeting. in fact, he listed zero foreign contacts. this saturday kushner's lawyer said the form was prematurely submitted and he's since added more than 100 calls from more than 20 countries. joining us is the former republican attorney general of virginia, and laura coats. how problematic, or is it problematic in your opinion that kushner has had to revise his security clearance three times, added 100 names to it? would it be tolerated if he was somebody lower down in the government? >> well, it would be tolerated as an ordinary matter. whether the people he works with would tolerate it is another matter. that's the real difference with family, i think. but, you know, as these things keep going, the damage is really
on their side. it creates a drip-drip approach to addressing whatever is revealed rather than just getting it all out there, and addressing it all at once. so i think they're harmed more by it than anybody else is. and obviously, then as it repeats over a number of different people, perhaps in the family or in the close circle, you start to expect it. and so the form gets filed, not only answers some questions, but then the next question is always, well, what did they forget on this one? >> laura, i think ken makes the good point, the drip, drip, drip of it, it steps on and raises questions about credibility. if you have a witness who tells you, oh, yeah, i've told you everything, and days later, and oh, there's more, and then, oh, yeah, i forgot about that, too. >> it's absurd that that would somehow make you seem more credible, if you say, i prematurely gave the information. prematurely completed a form and
signed it and handed it in and told you everything on it was truthful and i attested to it, but i forgot to mention over 100 different things from 20 different countries. it's not only undermining your credibility, but there are actual criminal penalties associated with this sort of thing and for very good reason. the purpose of the form is not simply to educate me on where in the world carmen, san diego played. they tell them the information what they need to know to assess your security clearance. it's not a courtesy. it's actually a requirement for a very good reason. >> ken, you heard the president basically saying there's nothing to see here in regards to his son's meeting with the russian attorney. haes donald trump jr. opened himself to any legal exposure here at all? >> no. the short answer is no. laura hit the exposure that normally arises in hess situations. when you're filling out forms, if it is believed, or proven
that you have intentionally lied on federal forms, then you can get in trouble for something like this meeting. now, donald trump jr. said, you know, i really would do this differently if i had it to do over again. >> he doesn't have a security clearance, he's not applying -- >> he's not in the jared kushner category at all. he's never been going in that direction. >> right. >> so he's not in that category. it just looks ugly. but let's be really clear. there is no law violated by this meeting, or how it came about. none. zero. and from my own senator, tim kaine, to be throwing words around like treason, he's a lawyer, he knows these things. that hyperbole, donald trump jr. has opened the door to
hyperbole. but there's not a legal consequence to donald trump jr. for this meeting or how it came about. >> laura, there is a federal law that states that a foreign national shall not directly or indirectly make a contribution of money or other thing of value in connection with any federal, state or local election. i've heard different opinions. most people i talked to seem to think it's a stretch to try to apply that to this. do you believe it is? >> i don't think it's a stretch. i do think he's exposed to criminal liability. treason is constitutionally defined that you have to be at war with the other nation, not have a geopolitical rivalry like we have with russia. the idea of the campaign finance laws could be a sufficient hook. i'm not saying you have all the information, evidence you would need to actually convict or perhaps prosecute, but you certainly have the pendulum swinging back in the direction of criminal liability. because you have the elements that you would actually need to pursue an investigation for that reason. you've got the statements by this man, donald trump jr., saying he would love to have
information. he knows the pretext about receiving value to them. and remember, the campaign finance laws are about getting something that you don't have to otherwise expend your resources on. certainly, opposition research falls into that category. >> ken, briefly, you disagree 1234. >> i do disagree. we at least characterize it as a stretch, i think, is accurate. and my point isn't that no lawyer couldn't creatively come up with offenses here, but the reality is, this just isn't close. now, if something completely different happened in those 20 or 30 minutes, then what we understand now, then maybe that changes. but it doesn't appear anything changed hands. there was no behavior of the campaign -- >> at this stage all we know really is what donald trump jr. has said and what the russian attorney has said. and it's not under oath. >> well, that's true. but you have to -- in-kind
donations do count. information can constitute a violation. that could be a possibility. >> got to go. laura, ken, thank you. coming up, an awkward moment in paris today. gop leadership releases a new version of the health care bill. the question now is whether the changes are enough to get back the votes they already lost. i needed something more to help control my type 2 diabetes. my a1c wasn't were it needed to be. so i liked when my doctor told me that i may reach my blood sugar and a1c goals by activating what's within me with once-weekly trulicity. trulicity is not insulin. it helps activate my body to do what it's suppose to do, release its own insulin. i take it once a week, and it works 24/7. it comes in an easy-to-use pen and i may even lose a little weight. trulicity is a once-weekly injectable prescription medicine to improve blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes when used with diet and exercise.
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after losing too many republican votes last month, gop leaders released a new version today. so, how does this bill differ from the previous one? >> well, anderson, there are some significant changes to the bill. but this is by no means the dramatic overhaul that many senators were looking for. let's give you a few of the highlights. this is a 172-page bill. one of the top lines, there's going to be an option for people
to buy cheaper plans with fewer benefits. you'll be able to use health savings accounts to pay for your premiums without a tax penalty. there is $45 billion set aside for substance abuse and opioid treatment. this is a keep provision for a couple of senators that are wavering. the big problem with this bill, though, for moderates is the fact that it maintains the deep medicaid cuts that the original bill had in place. that's why there are some that are still sitting on the fence. finally, there is no repeal on the taxes for the most wealthy earners. there are tax cuts in this bill, but the investment tax that was a key provision that some moderates dmot want to be in this bill is no longer in it. at this point, anderson, there are still many republicans digesting this and trying to figure out if they can support it. >> how is it being received? does it bring the party together as promised today by mcconnell? >> put it this way, anderson, mitch mcconnell needs 50 votes, and he only has 52 republicans available and there are already two who said they can't support
the bill, susan collins and rand paul. we're keeping a close eye on the people who are showing lack of support in the past. dean heller said this this afternoon. >> everything at this point matters. >> senator, what if mcconnell doesn't get the moderate republicans? >> he's been a good -- he's been working pretty hard at this. he's been a really good individual trying to get to "yes" on this particular legislation. some of us have a little bit different ideas. at this point the conversations i've had with the leader have been very, very good. and i would anticipate i'll have continued conversations with him throughout the weekend. thanks, everybody. >> another conversation that dean heller will have is with the governor of nevada, he's taking his cues as to how it will impact his state through the governor. today the governor said he has major concerns about this bill as it's currently written. >> joining me now, former economic adviser to the trump
campaign, steven moore, and democratic economist austin goldsby. steven, first of all, what do you make of the latest version of the bill? are the changes enough to get both conservatives and moderates onboard? >> it's interesting, you guys just mentioned that the two no votes right now, rand paul and susan collins. they're on opposite sides of the etiological perspective. this is a delicate balancing act for mitch mcconnell. every time you move it to the left you lose a moderate and every time you move it to the left you lose a conservative. i think at the end of the day i think rand paul will be a yes vote. it may take a few more weeks, and may have to cajole somebody and twist some arms. what i like about the new version, i do like the idea that ted cruz has, basically allows people to buy much cheaper plans to kind of opt out of the obamacare regulations. if you do that, especially for young people, they're going to be able to cut their costs by
half, or maybe even, you know, more than half, by having that option. what i don't like is the fact that they did retain those taxes, the increases on the investment. i think that really hurt the economy. we need to get rid of that. >> austin, what do you think of the cruz amendment? >> look, the cruz amendment is atrocious. it's literally going to take us back to the dark ages when insurance companies largely competed by figuring out how to entice the healthy to sign up for insurance, and how to exclude the sick. >> why is it going to do that? >> the cruz plan will allow insurance companies to create policies that are really cheap for people who don't have preexisting conditions. and so that is why the bill had succeeded in unifying some people, not the republicans, but it has unified the doctors, the nurses, the hospitals, the aarp, the emts, and the vast majority of the voters against it.
because it's going to send us back to the days where the insurance system wasn't broad base based. >> steven, when people at home hear what austin just said about the opposition to it, seemingly in the medical community from a wide spectrum, should that mean something to them? >> well, no, look, i disagree with austin's analysis here. before obamacare took effect, 90% of americans did have insurance, and the vast majority of them were, as you know, were happy with insurance. the worry was this is why obama said, if you like your plan, you'll be able to keep it. if you like your doctor, you'll be able to keep it. what's happened as a consequence of obamacare is everybody's costs have gone up. what's happened is a lot of people who are healthy can't afford the health insurance under obamacare. you're seeing some families paying $3,000, $4,000, $5,000 more a year than they did previously because of obamacare's mandates.
the way i feel about this, this is america. if you want to buy a plan that is stripped down and basically gives you basic coverage if something catastrophic happens to you, you break your leg or get a disease, you should be able to have that kind of policy. if you want a different policy -- i mean, austin, why should everybody have the same policy? >> look, my only observation is the following. if the characteristics of this bill are good, then why are they rushing to try to have health and human services give a score rather than the congressional budget office? >> because we don't trust the cbo anymore. >> the more you hear about this bill, the more you're going to hate it. they don't want people to read it. any republican that votes for this, it is going to stick to them like a bad smell. and a lot of them will lose their job for voting for it. >> you know what, in terms of the politics, austin, the political repercussions of not getting rid of obamacare for republicans in 2018 are much
worse than they are if they pass this. look, it will be judged ultimately, anderson, by whether this reduces premiums for americans. because this is a big class of american families that can't afford it. most people just want a plan they can afford so they can have other money to do other things. look -- >> we've got to go. >> not too many people are saving $2,500 a year as you promised. >> that's the secret to the new plan, never get sick and you'll be fine. back to paris, why president trump's greeting to the french first lady is raising eyebrows. . i used to love golf. wait, what, what happened? i was having a good round, and then my friend, sheila, right as i was stepping into the tee box mentioned a tip a pro gave her. no. yep. did it help? it completely ruined my game. well, the truth is, that advice was never meant for you. i like you. you want to show me your swing? it's too soon. get advice that's right for you. investment management services from td ameritrade.
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what he's said has been provoking strong reactions. cnn's kate bennett is here to explain. what did he say to the french lady? >> he specifically commented on what good shape she was in but whether it was a gaffe or a compliment, what he was really doing was complimenting on her appearance and saying that she was in remarkably good shape. >> you're in such good shape. >> now, we asked the white house for comment on this moment. they didn't get back to us. it's difficult to hear the audio and understand the context of it but this is something we've seen from the president before when he spoke to that irish reporter in the oval office and mentioning the beautiful irish president and has a great smile. this is something that maybe
felt complementary but can be construed as, again, boundaries where women's appearances are concerned. >> is this the first time the president trump has met the first lady of france? >> no, it's not. they were together just last week in hamburg. the two couples set side by side at the g20 and even back in may at the g7 in italy, they met there as well. they have known each other and interacted before. >> all right. kate bennett, thanks very much. with me now is michael d antonio and gloria borger. what do you make of this interaction? >> well, at one level, of course, this is a president who is used to performing but not used to any kind of protocol and this would not be the way you would assume that a president of the united states would greet a first lady of another country. i think if you read between the lines here, honestly, anderson, what he is saying is for a 64-year-old woman, you look pretty good. and she seemed to me -- and again, i'm seeing her from the back, she didn't quite know how to take it and kind of moved on
and seemed to be a bit of an awkward moment. >> i don't think we've done a good job of chryoning it. i think he turned to the president of france and repeated it and said that she was in good france. >> the president of france is much younger than his wife. we were doing a little math before and there's a quarter century difference between both of these couples only in reverse directions. and, you know, i think she seemed a little -- sort of like she wanted to get out of that moment. this is a president, as kate was saying, who pays an awful lot of attention to appearance. >> i saw an earlier cryon where and i'm told that cnn has not confirmed that is what he said. does this surprise you? >> not at all. gloria is correct. he does have an entertainer's instinct. i don't know if you've noticed this, but i've seen that he often offers a quip to a foreign
leader when they're standing together. he tries to illicit a laugh. i think he wants to be charming and this is an example of that but he obviously has gone astray and this happens i think more often when he's fatigued, his brain says something and it comes out of his mouth when in another moment he would have had the energy to restrain himself. >> gloria, i can't help but wonder if this is the kind of thing that people who like this presidency it one way and people who don't like this presidency it another way. this is much to do about nothing. he's just giving a compliment. >> right. >> to that you say what? >> you know, look, i don't think it's a big deal. i think it may not be what protocol demands but this is donald trump. and he likes to compliment women and he likes to make the small talk, as michael was talking about. and if were meeting a spouse of someone in new york city, he might say, gee, you're in great
shape. you look terrific. i'm not quite sure -- >> there's also the fascinating sort of handshake protocol that he's not only had with the president of france but sort of the two-handed hug he gave the first lady, which is a gesture we saw before that he used with michelle obama at the inauguration. >> you know, the french embassy actually contacted me about handshaking to discuss donald trump. >> really? >> yes. >> what did they want to know from you? >> they wanted a little bit of insight how you handshake with this guy. they've seen him hand wrestle with the prime minister of japan and macron did quite well. he was prepared for it. >> he did the one handshake and then macron put the other hand on top of -- how much did they practice this sort of stuff? >> the other thing that came to mind, as gloria was speaking about the entertainment aspect of this is, president trump also considers himself kind of a hollywood guy and, you know, if you're out in hollywood, everybody talks about how great
you look and, boy, have you had some work done? and it's not a bad thing to say. >> i'm not sure have you had some work done is a good thing to say, even in hollywood. michael, gloria, thank you. coming up, the politics of washington are following president trump to paris, meeting with a russian lawyer is not dying down. when you're close to the people you love, does psoriasis ever get in the way of a touching moment? if you have moderate to severe psoriasis, you can embrace the chance of completely clear skin with taltz. taltz is proven to give you a chance at completely clear skin. with taltz, up to 90% of patients had a significant improvement of their psoriasis plaques. in fact, 4 out of 10 even achieved completely clear skin.
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newest incarnation of the senate health care bill that republican senators are not rushing to embrace. we begin with manu raju. what are you learning? >> well, anderson, tonight the senate intelligence committee saying that they planned to ask to put both donald trump jr. and jared kushner for more records, records about past meetings that may have occurred between russian officials and themselves over the past several years and months. now, this of course comes in the wake of donald trump jr. revealing that he had that meeting with the russian lawyer, a meeting that was told to him was to get dirt from the clinton campaign. both paul manafort and jared kushner were in attendance of that meeting. mark warner, the top democrat raising concerns that jared kushner left off what he said were three meetings with russian officials on his appropriate forms.