Skip to main content

tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  July 13, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

6:00 pm
newest incarnation of the senate health care bill that republican senators are not rushing to embrace. we begin with manu raju. what are you learning? >> well, anderson, tonight the senate intelligence committee saying that they planned to ask to put both donald trump jr. and jared kushner for more records, records about past meetings that may have occurred between russian officials and themselves over the past several years and months. now, this of course comes in the wake of donald trump jr. revealing that he had that meeting with the russian lawyer, a meeting that was told to him was to get dirt from the clinton campaign. both paul manafort and jared kushner were in attendance of that meeting. mark warner, the top democrat raising concerns that jared kushner left off what he said were three meetings with russian officials on his appropriate forms.
6:01 pm
that's one reason why they asked for more meetings with him. chuck grassley said that he wants donald trump jr. to testify before his committee. something that could happen as soon as next week. grass is sending a letter to donald trump jr. today or tomorrow. they are writing the letter today and hope to send it out by the end of the week to see if he could testify as early as next week. some developments on the house side of the capitol, the former trump adviser abruptly canceled his testimony and he's no longer going to testify. they say they have no explanation why. just that the committee was not ready to move forward. that's going to be delayed until the august recess, according to stone's attorney, anderson. >> what kind of reaction has there been on capitol hill over donald trump jr.'s explanation
6:02 pm
over why he took the meeting? >> a lot of republicans are pushing back and actually the president's explanation, when the president said at his press conference today that it's standard for donald trump jr. to take such a practice because that's what you do in politics, some republicans are saying, well, that's really just not the case. including arizona's jeff flake. listen to this. >> the president today said that anybody in politics would take a meeting that his son took with a vush sh russian lawyer. what's your reaction? >> it doesn't include me. and that's what a lot of republicans are saying and democrats of course are saying that's not standard in politics, to take a meeting like this. especially one backed by apparently the russian government, anderson. >> manu raju, thank you. now to paris where the president enjoyed a gourmet meal. he did his best to defend his son's meeting offering dirt on hillary clinton. more now from jeff zeleny.
6:03 pm
this has not stopped him from defending his son. >> reporter: no, it hasn't stopped him at all, anderson. in fact, the president did something today that he doesn't do very often. he held at least a brief press conference taking about four questions or so and, of course, one of them was about his son. one of them was about that meeting on june 9th, 2016, that marks the first time someone from his inner circle had a meeting with a russian operative. this is what the president said today. >> as far as my son is concerned, my son a wonderful young man. he took a meeting with a russian lawyer. not a government lawyer but a russian lawyer. it was a short meeting. it was a meeting that went very, very quickly, very fast. two other people were in the room. they -- i guess one of them left almost immediately and the other
6:04 pm
one was not really focused on the meeting. i do think this. i think from a practical standpoint most people would have taken that meeting. it's called opposition research or even research into your opponent. >> reporter: well, it's not called opposition research, anderson. manu was just saying the reaction from capitol hill, from the people who run campaigns, this is not standard practice at all. in terms of the president saying he was not a russian government lawyer, in fact, that is exactly what donald trump jr. thought the meeting was. that has been spelled out in the e-mails that he released himself, that there was a meeting with a russian government lawyer. that's why he accepted a meeting. the president also didn't say who these two people were. you may get this sense that there was some mid-level aides or so. that's not the case. there's the campaign manager paul manafort as well as his son-in-law jared kushner also in that meeting. the high command of the trump campaign meeting in trump tower at the same day that candidate
6:05 pm
trump was in the building as well last june. >> just in terms of the trip, president trump and president macron of france certainly made a big point today of emphasizing the relationship between our two countries. >> reporter: no doubt about it. they were definitely trying to emphasize, you know, the sources of agreement, the alignment between the two countries. and the large share of their private meeting, bilateral meeting was actually on counterterrorism and syria. there are two areas in which these two countries agree and france is a major ally of the u.s. yes, they've had many disagreements, particularly on climate change, on the -- some free trade agreements and immigration, certainly. but there was a heavy emphasize today with both of these new leaders and this is the youngest president in modern french history and the oldest president in u.s. history, you know, standing side by side, giving
6:06 pm
each other hugs and pats on the back, trying to make a new relationship known here. that continues tomorrow at the bastille day parade which coincides with the 100th year anniversary of the u.s. entering into world war i. that's why president trump is here in paris. >> jeff zeleny, thank you very much. i want to go to pamela brown. a new reporting of a time gap on donald trump jr.'s e-mail chain and what might have filled it. what are you learning? >> there are lingering questions whether a phone call ever took place between don junior and emin agalarov. his publicist says, "let me know when you're available" and let me track him down in moscow, what number should he call. ? don junior says he can call his cell and he says i'm sure he can
6:07 pm
call. that was at 3:43 p.m. on june 6th. nearly an hour later, don junior says, rob, thanks for the help. around 24 hours later, goldstone said, emin asked that i schedule a meeting with you and the russian government attorney, i believe you are aware of that meeting. anderson? >> i spoke to agalarov's lawyer about this very thing. he denied that there was any phone call that ever took place. at first he said he had no knowledge of it. then he said it never happened. >> uh-huh. >> and it wasn't clear to me if i asked him if he had actually asked his clients about it. he wouldn't go into any level of detail. >> that's right. i've actually talked to him as well and also the attorney for don junior, both of them say that their clients have no recollection of any phone call that took place before or after this meeting. here's what the agalarov's attorney had to say.
6:08 pm
>> i really can't speak to what rob goldstone was thinking or what he wrote or why, but i'll tell you again that that call didn't happen. i don't know if there was someone else who spoke to donald trump jr. about this prospective meeting but it wasn't my client. i don't know where mr. goldstone got his information from but it's categorically incorrect. >> also i was told tonight that his client has no recollection but did add, quote, we are continuing to do our typical factual examination of everything. so that means they are going through e-mails, phone logs just to make sure that his recollection is accurate. anderson? >> pam, thanks. it's easy to forget that the investigation or not, lawmakers are also considering legislation that affects 1 one-sixth of the economy. let's go back to ryan nobles. the health care debate rages on. what's the latest?
6:09 pm
>> well, we have a new bill in place, anderson, and it's really not dramatically different than the bill senators initially revealed but it is a 172-page bill so these are just the top lines but let's go through some of them. it includes an option for people to buy cheaper plans that also have fewer benefits. these catastrophic plans, as they are called. it would also allow americans to use their health savings accounts to pay their premiums without a tax penalty. there's $45 billion substance abuse opioid treatment set aside and maintains the deep cuts to medicaid that the original bill had in place but moderates are happy with the fact that they took out a plan to repeal the obama investment tax. there are tax breaks in this bill but that was the most significant one. at this point, these senators are just digesting this bill to try to figure out if they can support it. most senators today, anderson,
6:10 pm
telling us that they are still undecided. >> but there are two known nos, right? susan collins and -- >> that's right. that leaves mitch mcconnell no room for error. he needs 50 votes in order to pass this bill. he's already lost two republican senators. there aren't any republican senators left to lose. we're keeping a close eye on many of the senators who had problems with the original bill. probably the most prominent is dean heller of nevada. he says he'll talk it over with stakeholders, including his governor, brian sandoval and sandoval says he has major concerns with this bill. there are not too many people optimistic about this bill's prospect and we have to wait from the score from the congressional budget office expected on monday. >> ryan nobles, thanks. thanks to all of our reporters. coming up next, a member of the senate judiciary committee weighs in on what she wants to hear from donald trump jr. fans, your date with destiny has arrived. let's do this! new cinnamon frosted flakes are finally here.
6:11 pm
sweet cinnamon and the frosted crunch you love. well? tastes like victory t. tastes like victory. they're great! theto me than my vacation.tant so when i need to book a hotel, i want someone who makes it easy to find what i want. gets it. and with their price match, i know i'm getting the best price every time. c'mon, gary! your vacation is very important. that's why makes finding the right hotel for the right price easy. visit now to find out why we're booking.yeah!
6:12 pm
that the essence of integrity is a promise kept. ♪ if you've got the time welcome to the high life. ♪ we've got the beer ♪ miller beer
6:13 pm
i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there. i can even warm these to help you fall asleep faster. does your bed do that? oh. i don't actually talk. though i'm smart enough to. i'm the new sleep number 360 smart bed. let's meet at a sleep number store.
6:14 pm
the senate intelligence committee plans to ask for more documents from jared kushner and donald trump jr. in connection with their meeting with a russian lawyer last year. the senate judiciary committee wants to hear from donald trump jr. i spoke with amy klobuchar earlier this evening. your committee wants donald trump jr. to come testify. what questions do you want
6:15 pm
answered by him? >> well, i don't think so. i think the first immediate question is what other contacts did he have with the russians. as you note in the e-mail, it says that it's part of the work that was being done. so clearly you want to know what other work was being done by the russians, what's his knowledge and then of course you want to hear from manafort which both chairman grassley and senator feinstein are also requesting that he testify. and so there are so many questions relating to this. this is the only thing we know now is this e-mail in which here he is, you hear your dad is running for president, you get an e-mail about russians looking for dirt on hillary clinton and instead of giving it to the lawyers or giving it to someone in charge, you actually say, i love it. well, i actually hate it. i hate it because i think that this is a foreign entity that's
6:16 pm
trying to influence our democracy. as marco rubio has said, this time it was one party and one presidential candidate and next time it will be the other party. so we have an obligation to get to the bottom of this and to allow the special counsel to do their job. but at the same time, congress and especially the senate should be holding hearings because those are in public so the public understands what's going on here. >> one of the other things that's really struck me in that e-mail exchange -- and again, we don't know if that's the full e-mail exchange. but it wasn't just that they were pitching dirt. it was that the sentence where they say that the russian government is backing donald trump or wants donald trump to win the election and there was no reaction from or apparently in those e-mails that we saw from donald trump jr. of surprise. that seems to be a major headline for someone in the midst of a campaign to discover and yet it seemed almost like a second reference or that this was sort of a known fact
6:17 pm
already. >> exactly. and i think that kind of presumption makes anyone -- you don't have to be a lawyer or a prosecutor to think this, hey, wait a minute. if i got that e-mail, i'd say, whoa. and i'd say that if i was the trump administration. but instead it seems like this is just a part of the general course of business and certainly opposite of what we've been being told throughout the campaign, that they had no relationship with the russian government. and here you see a meeting with his son, his son-in-law and his campaign chairman directly with a high-powered lawyer who works directly with the kremlin. >> in the e-mail chain again, we don't know if it's complete, donald trump jr. wants to have a phone call with the russian oligarch's son who is a pop star in russia who is the conduit to set up this meeting through goldstone and sends his cell
6:18 pm
phone number and the guy responds he'll just be getting off stage, talk in 20 minutes. i talked to the attorney for the pop star and his father who denies that there ever was a phone call. but that's something certainly i imagine you would like very much to know the content of that phone call because if that was such an important thing, as a prerequisite for this meeting, to find out what was said in that phone call. >> he clearly showed an eagerness with the discussion of the phone kale. you also have the whole miss universe pageant and the relationship to that and what he knows about that and what happened there. and just getting to the bottom of all of the business since he has been involved in the trump business and those relationships with russia. so there are endless questions to ask. and i think it's really important that the special counsel do their job as they're looking into criminal aspects of this entire affair. but you can do that without
6:19 pm
hurting that investigation so long as you're not giving people immunity and you're not doing negative that would get in the way of that investigation. >> would your committee have access to donald trump jr.'s e-mails, not the e-mail chain that was put out there but other e-mails? >> that's something that we will request and the judiciary committee has to assert some jurisdiction here. the fbi director was fired and we still haven't heard back from him. senator and now attorney general sessions still hasn't come back before the judiciary committee, which is pretty outrageous. he went to the intelligence committee with a very singular focus. but he needs to come before the judiciary committee. let's face it, it's not just russia. it's what's going on with immigration and the refugee order. it's what's happening with the voting rights and this commission that's been set up. we have a lot of questions to
6:20 pm
ask of the attorney general sessions. >> the chairman of your committee, senator grassley, would not say whether he would subpoena donald trump jr. if he would volunteer to testify. >> certainly he'll be and making sure that whatever we do doesn't interfere with their investigation but i am fairly certain that we should be able to have hearings and move forward in a substantive way with many topics. >> do you have a sense just of when you would get an answer of when they might testify? >> no. i know we're going to have a hearing. we're starting our efforts here with the foreign agent statute, the fact that manafort, actually the former chairman of the trump campaign registered after the fact, which is not how the statute works. and so we're going to look into that because the justice department over which we have
6:21 pm
jurisdiction has jurisdiction over that statute. >> senator klobuchar, thank you. >> thank you, anderson. when we come back, i'll dig into everything with our panel. first, what the president said between his campaign and a russian lawyer when asked about it today in paris. tech: when you schedule with safelite autoglass, you get time for more life. this family wanted to keep the game going. son: hey mom, one more game? tech: with safelite, you get a text when we're on our way. you can see exactly when we'll arrive.
6:22 pm
mom: sure. bring it! tech: i'm micah with safelite. mom: thanks for coming, it's right over here. tech: giving you a few more minutes for what matters most. take care! family: bye! kids singing: safelite® repair, safelite® replace. badda book. that's it?. he means book direct at for the lowest price on our rooms guaranteed. plus earn free nights and instant rewards at check-in. yeah. like i said. book now at i hawhen i think about beingght trelated to thomas jefferson,. it certainly makes me feel a sense of pride the tenacity of not only that he showed in his life but was given to me through the slaves that i'm birthed through as well. it makes me think that there's really no excuse for me in any area of my life to not be able to conquer anything. ♪
6:23 pm
6:24 pm
the future isn't silver suits anit's right now.s, think about it. we can push buttons and make cars appear out of thin air. find love anywhere. he's cute. and buy things from, well, everywhere. how? because our phones have evolved. so isn't it time our networks did too? introducing america's largest, most reliable 4g lte combined with the most wifi hotspots. it's a new kind of network. xfinity mobile.
6:25 pm
at president trump and macron's press conference, the trump campaign meeting with a russian lawyer offering russian government dirt on hillary clinton, the reporter asked whether the president disagreed with his own fbi nominee, christopher wray, who said it would be wise to call the fbi after getting an offer for a meeting like this. this is what the president had to say. >> i think from a practical standpoint, most people would have taken that meeting. it's called opposition research or even research into your opponent. i've had many people -- i've only been in politics for two years. i've had many people call up, oh, gee, we have information on this factor or this person or,
6:26 pm
fram frankly, hillary. that's standard in politics. it's very standard where they have information and you take the information. >> with me now, michael d antonio and jeffrey lord. you did opposition research is this standard operating procedure? >> absolutely not. >> someone saying they are a russian lawyer for the russian government. >> it's not standard operating practice for republicans or democrats who have any sense of responsibility. i chaired the congressional committee. their job was to beat my candidates. we would have candidate sessions and tell people that if you're going to do opposition research, hire an owe popposition researc firm. if you have any concerns at all with respect to the source of
6:27 pm
some materials, you turn it over to the authorities immediately. we would say this at our candidate training sessions, we would say it one on one, we would do it in conference calls and i know my republican counterparts did the same. when president trump says this is standard operating practice, maybe for him and his son-in-law and his son but not for most people that i know. hardly anybody that i know would have taken a meeting like that. >> scott, do you agree with that? >> well, to say standard operating practice for the trump indicates that they had a practice. this was their first campaign. they should have turned it over to a campaign lawyer. that's absolutely true. but there is something to be said here for not having the experience that you have or i have. >> paul manafort was in this meeting. >> i think you guys are describing a level of manafort that may not be real. again, i'm not making excuses for it and even donald trump jr. has said i wish i handled it differently and he's offered to answer questions about it.
6:28 pm
we've got democrats in washington tonight and earlier one said, hey, people go to jail for these things. this is treason. we have impeachment. we've gone well over the line here, i think, in how we're describing this meeting. particularly when trump junior is offering to answer questions about it. >> were you pointing to me when i said treason or impeachment? >> no. >> i said people have gone to jail for doing things even if they didn't know it was right or wrong. but don't point this way and say that i said that. >> no, but senator warner, mccain -- >> point wherever they are sitting. >> jeffrey, the president, though, today in paris, standing next to the french president, said point blank this was not a russian government. this was a private lawyer. first of all, he doesn't know if this -- i mean, he probably couldn't know but "the new york times" indicates that she's connected with the kremlin.
6:29 pm
intelligence officials i've talked to, former ones all say, look, the russians used third-party cutouts all the time for this sort of thing. it wouldn't be unusual to use an allegedly private attorney. why would the president of the united states state emphatically she was a private attorney when, in fact, she was presented as being a government attorney? >> i think he thinks that. >> factually he cannot say that. >> but i just think any time you're in government or in high-level politics and you meet a russian, be careful. >> does that not concern you that the president is just saying sm saying stuff that is not true? >> you said she's presenting herself as a private lawyer. >> but if the president is taking her word for it, that's a problem. >> i'm just saying, it's iffy here in terms of who is telling him what. look, i think scott has hit this exactly right in terms of donald trump jr. i mean, he's admitted if he had
6:30 pm
it to redo, but these are not people who -- people like scott and myself and congressman israel have come up through the political system and have been involved in these things over and over and over again and it gives you experience by the time you get to the presidential stage. this is not so with the trump organization. the candidate himself, the people around him -- >> charles, is that a justification? >> it just makes me sick. because they want to, on one hand, brag that he has this amazing victory and on the other hand say, we don't know anything about politics. we won, we won, we won. these people turned out for me in amazing ways and we don't know anything. if anything goes wrong, we're naive, we're young. well, he's not young but most of us are young. we've just been in for two years and anything that we do wrong, you have to ascribe to naivety. lies, wrong, no we don't. you should know this is wrong.
6:31 pm
if someone contacts you and says, whether it's true or not, that the russian government wants to help your dad, that there's a person coming to meet with you and however she describes herself, i don't know. they describe her as a russian attorney. you should know. there's a moral compass in you. i don't know who to give it to or who to alert about it. i should be able to beat her without this. >> it's interesting that you used the word moral. it doesn't sound like we're talking about something that is illegal or a law was broken. >> no. we don't know that. >> we don't know what was in these full e-mails, we haven't seen all of the evidence. many people have looked at it thus far, quibble about it and say there may be illegality here. but is it just sleazy? >> in reading the podesta
6:32 pm
e-mails, there's a section where someone from the clinton campaign is saying that the chinese ambassador wants to meet with us, et cetera, et cetera. they went back and forth about doing this. i'm just saying to you that this kind of thing is much more common. >> the irony, we know more about the podesta e-mails than donald trump jr.'s e-mails because we've only seen a screen. >> hillary clinton's 33,000 missing -- >> we don't know more about his finances than the clintons. we can go back and forth. do you think it's strange? you know donald trump well. he's saying something which is not the case and saying it emphatically. >> well, it's not at all unusual for him. i'd like to step back a second. the most interesting thing said so far, i want to help your dad. this is the big problem, we have a campaign where someone could
6:33 pm
go to the candidate's dad and the dad was 30 seconds away upstairs. if you think for a moment that donald trump didn't know this was going on, there's a bridge i want to sell you. >> you think donald trump jr. told his father? >> one of the four did. it was automatic in the trump organization to go upstairs to the boss with everything. >> the other thing that doesn't get as much focus in these e-mails, though i find it fascinating, when the person, goldstone, says the russian government is wants the backing of his father, it doesn't sound like a first time reference. it's almost like a second rer reference. there's no reaction from donald trump jr. as if -- if i was getting that e-mail i would say, wait an many, this is the first time i'm hearing about this, this is huge. >> and the thing that should have happened is what happened with podesta and those e-mails. there would be a back and forth communication. you'd contact lawyers. the trump organization is crawling with lawyers. there are plenty of people to consult about whether this was a good idea and who take as call
6:34 pm
from a former tabloid reporter who is a rock and roll promoter on a matter like this and then acts on it immediately? >> it would be one thing the way that jeffrey's talking about whether or not donald trump jr. was too naive to understand the concept of the use of cutouts and third-party emmisaries. but unfortunatelily y in the e-, she's going to be a em sar ree on behalf of the russian government to help your dad to which you point out he doesn't express a surprise. the legal team -- now, the well-paid, well-staffed legal team brought in to help with these different investigations, representing different trumps, jared and even mike pence and everybody, the president is -- now don junior, they were left
6:35 pm
out completely from the knowledge. it turns out that there's knowledge of the e-mails that goes back to june, several weeks ago, that donald trump knew about these e-mails, that he had sort of pr brainstorming sessions without their legal team and then decided over the weekend to first say it was an adoption story and then let it drip out and so -- >> repeated the adoption thing again today. >> and that's why the legal team has been in hysterics. they can't actually change the facts but they're trying to help with the credibility of these people going forward as they're investigated and called in to testify and they are trying to mitigate the damage to their reputations and now nothing that they say about russia is believable. >> we will have more of this conversation when we come back. we'll be right back.
6:36 pm
♪ if you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis,... isn't it time to let the real you shine through? maybe it's time for otezla (apremilast). otezla is not an injection or a cream. it's a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. with otezla, 75% clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,... with reduced redness,... thickness, and scaliness of plaques. and the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. don't take otezla if you're allergic to any of its ingredients. otezla may increase the risk of depression. tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts... or if these feelings develop. some people taking otezla reported weight loss. your doctor should monitor your weight... and may stop treatment. side effects may include diarrhea,... nausea, upper respiratory tract infection... and headache. tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if you're pregnant or planning to be. ask your dermatologist about otezla today. otezla. show more of you.
6:37 pm
6:38 pm
working my canister off to clean and shine and give proven protection against fading and aging. he won't use those copycat wipes. hi...doing anything later? ooh, the quiet type. i like that. armor all original protectant. it's easy to look good.
6:39 pm
6:40 pm
michael d antonio doesn't think so. michael, why do you believe that donald trump as a candidate must have known? >> well, there are a number of reasons. one is that this is a very hands-on executive donald trump, the president. he had to know everything that was going on in those offices. it's a very small space, actually. we're talking about two floors connected by an interior stairwell. there's constant flow in and out of his office with people reporting to him and competing for his approval. >> even among the kids? >> even among the kids and that's sort of the more shakespea shakespearean element of this. this was the son that was a by the wayward and wrangled with his father for many years. in edge which, he was the wild child and there was nothing worse than to be a person with an alcohol or drug problem.
6:41 pm
donald trump jr. was engaged with the party scene at his university. so i think he's been trying to make up for it ever since and so he's been tougher than everybody else. he's been -- during the campaign, he was a bulldog. and i think he did a certain to the president on many occasions. but it made him vulnerable. if you were to dangle something in front of him, that is the key to your father's chances, it would be very hard for him to resist. >> it's interesting. one of the things that i talked to steve hall who spent decades in the cia as a cia officer focusing on russia issues, he said it's standard operating procedure of russian intelligence to -- whether through a cutout or directly, to try to probe, in this case, a campaign and sort of -- even if they are not offering up information in that meeting, to try to get a meeting and just learn about who the characters are and try to probe any potential source down the road
6:42 pm
of weakness or even learning how the infrastructure is set up. >> this is a family. how vulnerable must the trumps be? and again, you should have some empathy for them. this is a group of people, really brought into this world by donald trump who wanted to be president but none of them had the experience to deal with this. they weren't a political family. and so what experience could they bring to it other than their business experience and in trump world, the business and the family are the same thing. it's a very fraught situation. >> do you guys believe that donald trump would have been told whether anything came out of this meeting or just the fact that the russian government was backs his campaign? >> i relate this -- you may be surprised -- to president reagan. this is the kind of thing that nobody would every -- i was doing that for charles' sake. this is the kind of thing that no one in the campaign would have ever brought to president reagan. you wouldn't have gone there. >> right.
6:43 pm
but donald trump's leadership style was supposedly hands-on executive, a pretty small operation. >> right. i honestly don't know. but one of the things that i find fascinating here is we're discussing all of these relationship relationships as if this russian lawyer had a relationship with someone who i believe had a relationship with this fusion gps firm. i mean, that was connected to -- why aren't we looking more at that? i'm not saying look at this but look at that and find out what the connections are here. was this a partisan deal? i don't know. was it a setup? i don't know. if we're going to go down this road -- >> do you think it's possible that the person who was allegedly friends with don junior through the miss universe pageant from the years before and these russian oligarchs were actually trying to set up don junior? >> that thought has crossed my mind. i have no idea. >> but if they were trying to -- okay. >> i just want to make this
6:44 pm
point. look, you can make the argument and give them the benefit of the doubt that they were inexperienced and there's a family dynamic and maybe donald trump knew and maybe he didn't know. let's remember the timeline here. this meeting occurs in june. only a few weeks after that, it becomes public knowledge that the russians are hacking and dumping. at that point at least, when the trump campaign, the clinton campaign, the democratic congressional committee, dnc and others know that it's part of an act of espionage against the united states government, at that point at least, the trump campaign should have aearth willed the fbi. so there was an opportunity -- at that point, they knew what was going on. somebody representing themselves as close to the kremlin. at that point, they had the opportunity to say, you know what, something happened a couple of weeks ago. we need to disclose it. they still didn't. >> do you think if then candidate obama in 2008 had
6:45 pm
someone -- had his wife or -- his kids were too young at that point but somebody incredibly close to him on his campaign who had his ear multiple times on a daily basis who took a meeting from somebody from russia claiming that they were a russian government attorney and then candidate trump says to mitt romney, russia is not the biggest threat, are you telling me that republicans would not -- >> sure, they'd -- >> -- pounce on that? >> if obama had ever eaten caviar, anything russian, the staggering double-standard. the leeway he's being given is, to me, a being showing development. that we're closing -- well, not everybody. but people are closing their eyes to what is clear and factual and true about what is happening. this is inappropriate. whether or not it's illegal, i
6:46 pm
don't know. that's for other people to figure out. it is incredibly inappropriate on every possible level and when you know that they know that it's inappropriate is that they never said anything about it. if it was not a big deal, they would have said something about it. if it was not a big deal, jared kushner would have put it on his forms when he was getting his clearance. if it was not a big deal, john junior would not have come up months after that and said, this is preposterous that you would even suggest sththat the russia are engaged -- >> but to his point, if he didn't believe it was inappropriate on saturday when contacts with the "new york times" would the first story be this was a meeting about orphans and then adoptions and then only once -- well, we have the e-mails, he learns from "the new york times," does he then release them? >> he did the right thing in releasing them. but -- >> well, it took three days and
6:47 pm
multiple stories. >> we still have those 33,000 from hillary. >> you can't -- >> wait. the bottom line here is, anderson, when we talk about collusion and all of this, i want somebody to come to me and say where in the lower cumberland county that voted for donald trump was affected by this, that any of the 67 counties that voted on election day and -- >> you're not concerned about russian interference in the u.s. election? >> i don't think it affected the election. >> that's not what the intelligence committee has -- >> come to my precinct and show me. >> they've never said that any of the ballots were hacked. what they've said was that the russians successfully targeted 22 state systems. they hacked into three states voter registration databases and managed to steal voter information that they have the ability -- you can read into this. they have the ability now and
6:48 pm
next time, they are perfecting their active measures so they can reach the ballot box next time and that they used things like fake social media accounts across the midwest that looked like jack from michigan, you know, and this is what's important to me, where they were able to move fake news around. that is known. everyone can look that up. it is not that they hacked votes, jeffrey. they've maintained this all along. that it is a meddling technique that they're perfecting and next time they want to take it further. do you know how many states hillary lost by? three. mitt romney only lost by four. in 2012, the russians can figure out what those states are. >> the release of all those e-mails, how did that influence things? i'm not saying ballot boxes were ever hacked. i don't think anyone is making that allegation. but the amount of time we spent covering e-mails, we spent every night for a long, long time doing it. we've got to take a break. more with the panel in just a
6:49 pm
moment. people are scratching their heads and others say not a big deal. what the president said to the french first lady and more when we come back. steve was born to move. over the course of 9 days he walks 26.2 miles, that's a marathon. because he chooses to walk whenever he can. and he does it with support from dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. so he even has the energy
6:50 pm
to take the long way home. keep it up, steve! dr. scholl's. born to move.
6:51 pm
6:52 pm
i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically adjusting to help you stay effortlessly comfortable. there. i can even warm these to help you fall asleep faster. does your bed do that? oh. i don't actually talk. though i'm smart enough to. i'm the new sleep number 360 smart bed. let's meet at a sleep number store. zblnch . back now with the panel
6:53 pm
talking about the donald trump jr. e-mails and also whether any of this has had an effect on the election. you were making the point before the break, and a lot during the break, that this is about the next election. as much as it is about the last election. >> right. so, as the russians, you know, take advantage of this internal domestic fight where everyone's fighting about whether or not we really had meddling in the election, between the two parties and because trump continues to deny it even though his intelligence community and all the republicans on capitol hill insist that it's real and it's a real threat, and everyone from his intelligence community when asked in testimony on capitol hill, do you have any doubt that it's the russians, all said it's the russians. what we're dealing with now is in reaction to his refusel to accept it, what republicans are going to do and particularly after the don jr. e-mail turn of events this weekend, is they're going to double down on this policy about whether or not donald trump can try to water down the sanctions bill that passed the senate 97-2 and is now waiting in the house and the
6:54 pm
house wants to send it over to him without the waivers the white house wants to use to weaken it. this is in retaliation for the meddling. they do not want to have the two compounds that obama evacuated in december where the russians, you knows, get to stay here and spy on us to be given back to the russians and the administration, sebastian gork admitted to jake tapper wants to give the compounds back to them. because the trump administration doesn't take the meddling serious live and president trump won't concede that it happened, republicans in congress are left to put this pressure on him with this policy to try to punish the russians. >> do you understand, jeff, why even today or scott why even today the president was saying or on the plane, the president was saying, well, we wouldn't know if it was russia, could have been china, you know, in the past he's -- >> i think he believes that. >> why would he believe that when his entire intelligence community, his, not president obama's? >> i think he has -- i think he likes the intelligence community but as he, himself, said the other week, you know, he cited
6:55 pm
iraq. and the -- >> for a guy who's tough on pretty much every other country, it does seem like russia has a special place. >> one of the things to pick up from a.b., what you're saying here, a.b., is the voter fraud commission that all the secretaries of state around the country should cooperate in so we could find out what's going on with the system and then do the cyber security to protect them. >> but that voter fraud is not about -- >> meddling in an election -- >> not about cyber security. >> meddling in an election is voter fraud, is it not? >> no -- >> voter fraud, no, that commission was set up. that commission was set up by donald trump after -- because donald trump claimed that 3 million to 4 million illegal immigrants voted -- that's what made hillary clinton -- >> the russians manipulating the vote, is that legal? >> no one is saying the russians manipulated the voting box. >> what everyone is saying -- >> that's not what the commission is set to up to do. >> let's expand it, anderson.
6:56 pm
>> i don't have control over that. that's what they are saying. >> look, it's not just about the next election, which i think is really important, but it is also about faith in a democratic system. democracies are built on faith. that's the only way they operate. you have to believe that you are -- that you are part of the system, that the system is fair and that it works for you. >> and there's no vote stealing in chicago. >> right, and there's no people intentionally trying to pass laws to make sure that black people can't vote. >> we got to leave it there. i got to take a quick break. i'll have more. we'll be right back.
6:57 pm
i'm jamie and i'm the fifth great-granddaughter of benjamin rush. he was actually the only medical doctor that signed the declaration of independence. i myself am a nurse, my daughter is going to physician's assistant school. we're passing on family traditions. ♪
6:58 pm
6:59 pm
yeah, and i can watch thee bgame with directv now.? oh, sorry, most broadcast and sports channels aren't included. and you can only stream on two devices at once. this is fun, we're having fun. yeah, we are. no, you're not jimmy. don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens.
7:00 pm
quick programming note, tomorrow night at 9:00, cnn special report, the first son, the life of donald trump jr. time now to hand things over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." president trump says it's no big deal, anybody would have taken that russia meeting. this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. the president clearly has no problem defending his son's meeting with the russian attorney, a meeting explicitly set up with the promise that russia could supply dirt to incriminate hillary clinton. here's what he said in his news conference today with french president emmanuel macron. >> nothing happened from the meeting. zero happened from the meeting. and honestly, i think the press made a very big deal over something that really a lot of people would do. >> well, the