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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  July 21, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

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so there's a real affinity here i think for these two fellows. >> yeah, it certainly came off that way. for all of our viewers joining us, we are at the tom of the hour, a busy one at the end of a very busy week. a new story out in "the washington post" saying that russia's ambassador, ambassador kiss lee yak, told his kremlin bosses he did in fact talk about campaign matters with then senator jeff sessions. current and former u.s. officials telling "the washington post" they know from american intelligence intercepts. if true, it is also possible the russian ambassador was boasting to his bosses. if it was not a boast, it casts serious doubt on the credibility of jeff sessions, the highest law enforcement official in the land, who denied having contacts with russians during the campaign about the campaign. this is what attorney general sessions said during his confirmation hearing back in january. >> if there is any evidence that anyone afill yafiliated with thp campaign communicated with the
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russian government in the course of this campaign, what will you do? >> senator frank en, ien, i'm n aware of any of those activities. i've been called a surrogate a time or two in that campaign and i did not have communication was the russians. >> he said he didn't have communications with the russians. then when asked in a written question whether he had been in contact with anyone connected to any part of the russian government about the 2016 election, either before or after the election day, sessions responded no. now listen to what he said when he recused himself from the russia probe back in march. >> let me be clear, i never had meetings with russian operatives or russian intermediaries about the trump campaign, and the idea that i was part of a "continuing exchange of information" during the campaign between trump surrogates and intermediaries for the russian government is totally false.
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>> now, listen to what the attorney general said in the senate testimony back in june. listen to how he's changed what he is saying. >> i have never met with nor had any conversation with any russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election in the united states. >> all right. so, sara murray joins us from the white house. first of all, have you reaction to all of this? >> reporter: we asked the white house for a reaction. we have not heard from them yet on this tonight. obviously we know that the president has had some concerns about jeff sessions recently. he aired them in an interview with the new york times, mainly lashing out that sessions has recused himself from the russia investigation, which sessions was of course told to do by lawyers at the department of justice. we have a statement tonight from justice department spokes woman so i'm going to read it to you. she says, obviously i cannot comment on the reliability of
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what anonymous sources describe in wholly uncorroborated intelligence intercept that "the washington post" has not seen and that has not been provided to me, but the attorney general stands by his testimony from just last month before the senate intelligence committee when he specifically addressed this and said he never met with or had any conversations with any russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election." so that's the statement from the department of justice. still waiting to see if the white house weighs in on it this evening, but clearly a tough week for jeff sessions. >> sara, what is interesting about the statement is it says he stands by his amended statement which was in his second time testifying under oath where he said never had contacts with russians about interference in the campaigns or the elections, whereas previously he said never had any campaign contacts with the russians, full stop. >> reporter: well, right. and that's what's continued to dog this white house, right? the fact that they were so adamant, jeff sessions, but so
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many officials in this white house, adamant there was no contact with any russian officials and then you find out drip, drip, drip, there was this meeting, there was that meeting. this obviously has to do with jeff sessions' conversation in particular with russian ambassad ambassadam bass kiss door. it is the reason michael flynn was fired and is no longer serving in this white house. this is the kind of thing that has come back to haunt the west wing over and over again. >> also, this could not come at a worse time for jeff sessions given what the president said about him to the new york times the other day? >> reporter: that's right. sure, sarah huckabee sanders says the president has confidence in sessions, and if he wanted sessions out he would be out. these are difficult comments. if you are anyone serving for the president, if you are someone who decided to serve in government -- remember, jeff sessions gave up a senate seat that was probably safe for him
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for quite a long time. he was one of the first people to endorse president trump, and president trump repaid that by lashing out in the new york times about how jeff sessions was very unfair to him and should have told him at the outset he was going to recuse himself from the russia investigation. if so, the president would have chosen someone else. like i said, not a great week to be jeff sessions. >> although at beginning he didn't know he was going to recuse himself. i want to bring in cnn contributor and "washington post" reporter, one of the three names in the byline of "the washington post" story. for his part he has financially supported her organization, the american union fund. also with us scott jennings, maria cardona and jason miller. i want to focus with you. the report about attorney general, explain what you are reporting tonight. what's the story? >> so, you know, we reported back in martha when sessions appeared before the senate
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judiciary committee and was asked the question about, frankly, al franken didn't ask him that question, but his answer was he didn't have any contact -- communication was the russians. we found out that that wasn't the case, that there was, you know, a meeting at the rnc on the sidelines that he had a meeting with kislyak and there was a second meeting at his office in second. we attended that they attended the same event in april where trump gave his first foreign policy speak. >> i recall. >> we are trying to figure out what were the contents of these contacts, what were they discussing. so, you know, sessions specifically said he did not discuss campaign matters in his march 2nd appearance where he announced his recusal. >> right. he was very blunt about that. >> well, he was blunt about it when referring to the -- you know, i guess the july event. he was a little bit less clear when referring to the september event. the bottom line is we wanted to
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find out, you know, whether that was true. so what we learned is that kizliak reported back to moscow about two conversations in 2016 with sessions, the first one in april, the second one in july, in which he reported that he told moscow they did discuss campaign issues. >> and it is possible -- and this is based on u.s. intelligence intercepts -- >> correct. >> you haven't heard the intercepts but you have spoken to people who have? >> correct. i don't know if they listened or read intelligence reports based on those enter cements. >> it is possible and you write about this in the article as well, that kizliak is lying, boasting to make himself seem more connected? >> he could be doing that. he could also be planting false information to throw off u.s. intelligence analysts, which is a practice. let me vouch for kizliak. in the past his reporting has appeared to be accurate --
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>> this is according to what intelligence people you have talked to? >> according to actually u.s. diplomats and other officials that dealt with him over the years. not only that, but we did an earlier story that was about a meeting at trump tower in december where kushner, the son-in-law of the president, also met with kizliak, and kizliak also reported that conversation and the contents of that proved to be accurate. >> to those that read a conspiracy, that perhaps president trump is behind this leak because based on what he said, his anger about jeff sessions in that article in the new york times, you have had this information about the intercepts for sometime? >> yeah, no, and, frankly, it has been rather obvious to people who were looking at it when members of congress, democrats particularly, started making public calls saying they believed there was a third meeting and asking for an investigation of the third meeting. comey testified in early june in which he basically said, you know, there is -- he had reason to believe that sessions would
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have had to recuse himself, but he wasn't going to be able to discuss at that session in open session what that information was. so, you know, the bread crumbs, if you will, were being left in those june appearances, and so that's when we started to piece this together. >> maria, you know, a lot of people could listen to this and say, look, what is the big deal if jeff sessions meets with the russia ambassador and talks about the trump campaign? he was on the campaign, one of the top surrogates. it would seem normal. what else is he going to talk about when at the republican convention, that's all you talk about, the campaign. there's that question. the other question is why then did sessions not say, yeah, i did, i talked to him about the campaign, but sort of have to go twice to amend his testimony and now maybe a third time. >> and that's exactly the point, anderson. if, in fact, it was no big deal, why did he perjury himself then trying to cover it up? if this is true, that's exactly
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what happened. so put aside how damaging and damming this is for jeff sessions and the trump administration, this is a big deal and jeff sessions could be in big trouble legally because if it is true, you know -- i thought the first time around he p perjured himself because he lied. but this is true if these meetings happened he willfully perjured himself before congress. >> i have a hard time believing a man like jeff sessions would willfully perjure himself in the way you are discussing. we sat here for months listening to people say, the russians are bad, you can't trust the russians, they're all liars. tonight we hear, we have to take the russian's words as the gospel when it is pointed out sometimes they lie and embellish. all we know is kizliak word versus the justice department's statement is, which they deny any wrong doing in this conversation. he raised that point. the other critical point you
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raised, anderson, is there a big deal here? wouldn't we expect sort of, you know, conversations like this to be going on? jeff sessions says nothing bad happened in these conversations. >> why did he lie about them then? >> he did in that march -- when he recused himself he said clearly, never met with any russians. >> sure. >> to discuss, you know, anything going on with the campaign. >> i'm not denying that i wish they had gotten all of the meetings right on the front end, but that doesn't mean somebody willfully lied about it, which is your word. >> but it means he could have. >> and it doesn't mean he discussed anything that was any big deal. >> pretty damming. >> margaret? >> the content of the conversation is what is relevant and we don't know the content of the conversation. if the content of the conversation was talking about the campaign and possible coordination with the russian government about the campaign, that would be an incredibly big deal. we don't know what it was. the problem is that jeff sessions has lost an enormous
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amount of credibility for mpeope who want to defend him. i want to think this long-serving senator had the integrity to tell the truth when being questioned in front of the american people. i have a hard time defending him because too many times he has forgotten. >> we have to take a quick break. other breaking news, donald trump jr. and paul manafort will speak to the senate committee. we will tell you details of that ahead. yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..." through the tuition assistance program, every day mcdonald's helps more people go to college. it's part of our commitment to being america's best first job. ♪ when you think of saving money, what comes to mind?
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russians or any foreign officials concerning any type of interference with any campaign or election." interesting. i mean, adam, you tell me your reading of that statement, but they're not standing by his statement from march saying he had no contacts with any russians during the campaign about the campaign. now it is the focus on his june statement which was amended about interference. >> right. so, yeah, no, i mean clearly they have decided -- >> they're not saying it is not true. just saying your sources are uncorroborated. >> they're not responding to the story. >> right. >> what they're basically do issiis saying there's no communication was the russians about coordination or about what russia was doing in the election. frankly, we have nobody telling us that that was in any way discussed in any of those meetings. what we are reporting is basically that they did discuss campaign matters contrary to what sessions said in his march 2nd press conference. >> right. and that goes to the credibility of jeff sessions. carl? >> you know, there's a move here
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for the former attorney general -- or the current attorney general of the united states, and that is to look at the president of the united states who has thrown him under the bus and go to congress and say, "i'm here to tell you everything you want to know about what happened in our campaign with the russians. ask me anything you want, i'm going to tell you everything, i'm going to tell you what the president and i talked about, i'm going to tell you what flynn and i talked about, i'm going to tell you what the russian ambassador and i talked about," and then we will have some clarity. >> why would we trust -- >> let's see what he says. i don't know if we will trust him, but let's listen to him and see if this coverup continues, because he is in a position to tell us a lot, and perhaps now that the president has thrown him under the bus he might have motivation to let us know what he knows. is that a radical idea? >> it is, and it would make sense, but we know that this is an administration that doesn't listen to common sense. this could have been so much
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better handled from the get-go. we have all talked about this, right? just to be straight, to be honest, to be transparent, which is what they always talk, about what actually happened. >> unless -- >> the fact -- exactly. the fact they haven't been able to do that each and every time and the fact that we continue to find out nuggets about the russian either interference or collusion or conversations about campaign -- >> remember, filled out a form straight three times, a number of these people. >> exactly. and a lot of people seem to have that symptom, right? there seems to be some kind of syndrome when it comes to the russians of forgetfulness. >> also be transparent what we are seeing here. everyone has see "friday night lights." here we have another episode of friday night leaks. another day, another friday where the president and his team have another excellent friday and here we go with another leaked report to set it up for the weekend and the sunday shows. so here is what --
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>> but he's been -- they've had this information. they've been working to try to get this information for a long time. >> again, a report no one at this table has actually seen the transcript of what is actually in this, and we're relying on what supposedly this russian ambassador said in his communication that he knows would have been monitored going back home. look, no ambassador or spy or kislyak is in the history of mankind is going to file a report saying, m another completely worthless week here, i learned nothing. of course they're going to go -- >> i will say jay sekulow, the president's attorney when arguing on donald trump jr.'s behalf on this program and everywhere, was taking the word and quoting the russian attorney's standpoint of what she said in a television interview as a reliable source. so i think -- i totally agree you can't take a russian ambassador, but i'm not sure -- >> i'm not vouching for any russian here, but i think that there is a key point in the
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story as i read it through the second time. in the report from the russian ambassador he made the comment they had a substantive conversation. i think the word substantive was in quotes. i'm not sure if it was a translation issue or if it was in quotes. attorney general sessions said there was no meeting. clearly there's a disconnect here, because if there was no meeting and no substantive conversation, then this is absolutely false on its face. just period point-blank. completely debunks it, end of story. that's a key detail right there. >> it doesn't make it false that it never happened. it makes it false that the guy was lying, which is in "the washington post" report. >> i think it makes it very clear that if there is no meeting, i think it makes it very clear this gentleman was lying. >> what if there was? >> yes. >> if there was, that's a big problem for jeff sessions in and of itself. >> it is how you define it in first case. the april exchange, i think the question is how you define a meeting. is a meeting, you know, a 10-minute conversation when everybody is in a greeting line to shake the hand of the candidate trump? is that sufficient for kislyak
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to ask some questions of sessions and get some answers and then write a report? sessions -- >> that wouldn't be substantive. >> i think it is in the eye of the beholder what substantive means. >> under definition -- >> i'm not sure -- >> can you see from one who is a trump supporter where it would raise serious red flags, literally and figuratively. it is like, wait a minute, this doesn't pass the smell test that there was any there there. again, i can't believe that we're putting this much stock in, you know, the intercepted -- to begin with, you know, cable, phone call or whatever it was between a russian ambassador going directly back to his people when, of course, he is going to go and tell a story to jin it up to make it sound -- >> and we don't know what the story is. we don't know the contents of the meeting. you used the word nugget of collusion. there's no nugget here. >> we don't know that.
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>> or kach of packets. >> we don't know that. >> do you know the contents of the meeting? >> no. here is the problem. the problem is history, right? it strains credulity that the attorney general of the united states who was supposedly prepared for a -- a briefing, a testimony before congress -- and i have been in these briefings preparing cabinet secretaries for these. they are meticulous. when the russia story was front and center, for him to forget these kinds of meetings twice, maybe now three times? i'm sorry, it strains credulity. the flip side of what you're saying, if you are a trump critic you can understand why this then feeds into the notion that the trump administration does not have any relationship with the truth whatsoever. >> all we know tonight is it is jeff sessions' integrity versus a russian's word on a cable we haven't seen. newt gingrich somebody tells me this russian is more credible than jeff sessions who i know is credible, i'm inclined to believe jeff sessions.
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>> he has already lied. >> let's just find out, mr. attorney general -- >> he has already lied. >> please give us the answers. >> don't you think that's where it will wind up? >> don't you think after two testimonies under oath he would have already answered that question? >> that's a problem. >> now it will be a third testimony under oath. >> he has to go back and clean up, no question about that. this is where it will wind up. he will go back and answer questions, but it doesn't mean we're going to find out something nefarious happened. >> it certainly does not, and it would be a delight to learn what happened, nefarious or even better than nefarious, answers that would show us that nothing happened. that would be good for the country, good for the president. >> but, carl, we can't rake attorney general sessions over the coals every time the russians want to put out information. >> who is talking about raking him over the coals? >> he is getting attacked -- >> he is getting attacked by the president. >> that's the person who is -- >> who is raking him over the coals more? >> the president of the united -- >> slow down, please. >> the president of the united
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states raked the attorney general of the united states over the coals yesterday in a way no attorney general i have ever heard of has been raked over the coals by the president. that's where we are. where we also are is the reality that so far for six months not a single official in the trump white house, in the campaign, in the trump family has come forward and said, i want to be open with you, i want to tell you what happens here. >> do you want to -- >> he gave us e-mails -- >> i want to understand what you're saying. >> no, in fact, i would love to see all of these people say, here is what happened, nothing nefarious happened, here are the meetings, here are the contents of what was disclosed and discussed. >> yeah. >> end of story. >> nothing happened, they don't have to come forward to say nothing happened. >> this is trey gowdy's point, which is anybody who met with any russians tell the special counsel, don't wait for the new
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york times or "washington post" to drag it out. >> i rest with trey gowdy. >> more to talk about. take another break. also not quite shaping up as expected as a public testimony. we will tell you all of the details we know ahead. our purest color pigments curated for city inspired looks. maybelline's new city mini shadows. make it happen. maybelline new york. ♪ it's happening, it's happening! in the modern world, you can control just about anything with an app. your son is turning on all the lights again! and with the esurance mobile app, you can do the same thing with your car insurance. like access your id card, file a claim, or manage your policy. it's so easy it's almost scary. let's get outta here! that's auto and home insurance for the modern world. esurance. an allstate company. click or call.
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>> reporter: we know negotiations happened behind the scenes pretty intensely over the last couple of days. donald trump jr., paul manafort did not want to appear at the wednesday public hearing even as the republican chairman chuck grassley threatened to subpoena them for their appearance. instead, they agreed to provide records to the committee. they agreed to a private interview. a date has not been set yet. they agreed to do it with senators as well as staff members. it is notable donald trump jr. in particular agreed to this. remember, anderson, it was just last week in which he said he would be willing to tell congress everything under oath about that meeting that he took at trump tower with russian officials during the campaign season in which he was promised dirt on the clintons, that both paul manafort and jared kushner were also at. it was very clear as soon as that invitation came for a public hearing, instead, anderson, he worked behind the scenes to avoid a public hearing. we'll see if that ever comes to pass, anderson. >> so they won't appear at wednesday's hearing in public. it is possible they may still have to appear publicly at some
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point, is that correct? >> reporter: it is possible. now, that is a threat that a judiciary committee is continuing to keep out there. chuck grassley, the chairman, did tweet after the news was announced about this deal saying that he does expect them to "also appear openly." so there's no expectation that they should appear as well, but, of course, if they decline to do so, that would force the committee to either subpoena them, and then that could lead to a long process to try to get them to appear. so that may never happen if they decide not to. also, anderson, jared kushner, the president's son-in-law, coming before the house and senate intelligence committees next week on monday to the sen at, tuesday to the house, but also behind closed doors. unclear if that will ever happen publicly or if we will learn exactly what happen in that classified session. >> thanks very much. back with the panel. carl, earlier you made a point, and i think an important one, these behind-closed-doors testimony actually can be more efficient because you don't have senators or congress people playing to the cameras and you
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also have their staff asking questions. so it can be more direct. >> yes, and you also have the opportunity, as the senator has said, to bring them back in a public session and you can issue a subpoena, but also donald trump has been talking about a witch-hunt. it seems to me that one of the things that the investigators in the house and the senate want to do is make sure that there is nothing that even could be interpreted as a witch-hunt. >> not make it a speck tackal? >> well, first find out what these people have to say. find out what evidence they have. ask them are they going to be forthcoming and go on with the procedure that is normal investigative procedure that enables them to have a hearing in which the most evidence is produced. this is a first step. it puts the onus on manafort, it puts the onus on donald trump jr. to come up with information. if they don't, there are plenty of avenues left to the investigators to bring them before the full committee. >> adam, is it clear how much
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information the committees will get in terms of e-mails? i mean donald trump jr. has shown, you know, photographs of an e-mail chain. we don't know if it is the entire chain, we don't know if there were other e-mails. do we know? >> no, i don't think we know. we don't know how much also -- you know, we have jared kushner who will be in front of the senate intelligence committee on monday. >> again, privately. >> right. you know, obviously there's been some sharing of information. we don't know how much has actually been shared, how much they have that they're going to be able to cross check with him, that they have from intelligence, for example, like what we're talking about today. they have similar intercepts of kislyak talking about jared kushner. i'm not exactly sure, you know, if those are the kinds of things that they would -- i'm sure that's the kind of thing they would want to ask about. i'm not sure how much information they can share about that because of the classification of it. these are the kind of questions we're waiting to see, you know, whether or not he's -- you know, we're going to get versions of
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these events in ways that are more detailed or possibly conflict with the way it's been reported or the way it's out there currently. >> jason, i mean you know how these things work. what is the -- i mean is it simply to avoid the public spectacle someone would want -- if it was me being called, i probably would want to do it in private. i wouldn't want to be hauled in front of cameras. is that just common sense for anybody trying to get it to be private if they can? >> well, i'm not an expert necessarily on this aspect of the hill testimony, but i think there are a couple of things here. i think it probably makes sense for both sides. i think as carl pointed out and we actually agree on this matter, i think this is probably smart for the -- both the members of the house and the senate because i think if they're playing to the cameras or if it is perceived they're playing to the cameras, particularly if the criticism of the president's son or son-in-law becomes very pointed or if we do see folks who are grandstanding or trying to get themselves a youtube moment in advance of 2020, that's going to
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backfire and look really bad. i think what we need here, everybody i think would agree across the board, is to ask some tough questions, get the straight answers and, again, we have seen from jared kushner, we have seen from donald trump jr. a very direct statements and willingness to say, you know what, i'm more than happy to come forward, answer completely and honestly and get everything out there. now, i know manafort through a spokesperson made similar type comments in months previously. i will let him do his own speaking, but what we need here are answers. let's go ahead and get to that point and not make it a big spectacle. >> their testimony could be released also. this session does not necessarily have to remain off the record. i'm sure those terms have been agreed to yet. >> a lot of people prefer transparency, they prefer public testimony, they prefer to see it all in the sunlight. the one thing i will say is that it doesn't matter what they say, whether in private or public, every single thing they share with the senate also will be reviewed by robert muller. everything that robert muller
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examines will become public. even though this particular one -- >> is that true? >> everything that is relevant will become public to the american people. that is his charge at the end of the day. >> he doesn't have to do a public -- adam -- >> all will come out eventually. >> we're not sure robert muller -- >> after water gate, it comes out in the end. >> we're not sure robert muller is going to be there for the duration because the president of the united states is doing everything he can to ensure that robert muller won't be there. >> if it turns out. >> -- >> that's important to keep in mind. >> -- sessions resigns or is fired and a new attorney general is appointed, that person then who no longer has to recuse himself from the russia investigation, they are overseeing the russia investigation, correct? >> presumably. i think if it gets to that, it is another can of worm that the trump administration opens. but i actually -- >> at least for democrats it is. >> well, i don't know. >> well, for republicans because that's a line that republicans
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might not want to cross. >> right. i think republicans certainly won't be happy with it. but i think that this -- everything we are talking about, jeff sessions and even these testimonies, whether they're going to be public or private, goes to credibility. we are talking about this, anderson, in the shadow of what to me has been an astounding 24-hour news cycle. this just broke, the sessions thing just broke before we went on the air. we have two other astounding pieces of journalism from the new york times and i think "the washington post" as well, one much which talking about how the trump campaign is trying to discredit robert muller. the second one talks about how they're having conversations about whether it is possible for trump to pardon his aides and whether he can pardon himself. in the spotlight or in the shadow of those stories, again, the underlying thread here is they have done nothing to convince the american public that they are dealing with them in a straight manner, that everything that has come out of their mouth has been a complete
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and total lie. i think that is a huge problem going into in. >> scott, do you want to respond? >> i think we talked for several days now. the path out here for donald trump jr. and for kushner is to go testify. they've agreed to do that, just as they said they would. i think the private testimony is interesting and it doesn't necessarily mean they won't testify in public if that's what the senate committee wants them to do. i would also point out one other issue. the implications of having a serving senior staffer to the president answer questions before congress, i believe both the obama and bush administrations held in many instances that assistance to the president should not be forced to answer questions from congress. what i think is note worthy here is kushner is going to answer questions, which to me shows a willingness to be more transparent than some other administrations have held you have to be. >> yeah, we got to take a break. as murray said, a busy night. much more ahead. find out who is leaving the trump administration next. thingt to me than my vacation.
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well, sorry "snl" but sean spicer is out at white house spokesman. sarah huckabee sanders takes his place. at a white house briefing that made news for another reason as well, it was televised. scaramucci had kind words for the man he will be reporting to. >> the president is a winner. what we're going to do is do a lot of winning. i love the mission the president has.
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i love the president. i obviously love the country. he's genuinely a wonderful human being. i love the president and i'm very, very loyal to the president. i love these guys. i respect these guys. i love the president. the president as phenomenal with the president. the president himself is always going to be the president. i think he's got some of the best political instincts in the world and programs in history. he's done a phenomenal job for the american people. he is the most competitive person i have ever met. okay, i've seen this guy throw a dead spiral through a tire. i've seen him at madison square garden with a top coat on, standing in the key, hitting foul shots and swishing them. he sinks three foot puts. >> carl bernstein, margaret hoover back, mike an dantonio and alliss stewart. i don't know about three foot putts, i don't know what that means. ai s scaramucci is not a politician. he has a successful record in the business world. the most difficult job in the white house is planning the communication message, but
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particularly with this president who often changes the message even if you plan a "made in america week" that's not what the president is talking. >> is that what this is, made in american week? >> i believe it was. >> we all had the opportunity to put such praise on our new boss we all would be in great shape. look, you can't blame him for what he said today. president trump wants people who are loyal to him, who will go out there on the podium or on television and be his biggest cheerleader. that's what he is going to do and what he is there to do. the problem with that is communications director, their role is to look long-term, define your long-term strategy, plan your work and work your plan and really define how you're going to sell health care, how you will convince people in middle america that this president really is going to repeal and replace obamacare. that's a lot of work, and "today's special value" sittiit sitting down with your policy department and doj and plan it out. hopefully scaramucci realizes it is part of the role because it is a critical part.
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>> in this white house it is hard to do. >> the problem all of us are making -- and i am absolutely guilty of this. when i learned of this appointment i thought, it is ridiculous. then i thought, actually it makes so much sense because we actually aren't in an orthodox administration, right? as we all know. >> i mean he's been on this show. he is a great defender of the president and speaks very well. >> i have worked with anthony scaramucci. he has supported an lgbt advocacy organization i run. i want to be clear i have a good working relationship with him, but this is not orthodox, but nothing about this is orthodox. if you take that and put it aside, trump is a guy who has come to the presidency by being incredibly successful with marketing, on television, in the press. he is polished. all of these things anthony scaramucci is as well. they kind of come from the same soup, right? anthony scaramucci is from long island. >> has a great story. >> donald trump is from queens. they were sort of raised in a very -- i think in similar enough ethos, especially both
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being in new york city and in manhattan, in finance and real estate over the last 20 years, and they've known each other. trump is comfortable with people he knows and trusts. he likes anthony scaramucci. >> scaramucci is more self-depracating. he said he bought all of his copies of his own book to make it a best seller. >> which endears him to the press. >> of course. >> anthony scaramucci, much as many call him, has been on tv and has relationships with reporters. >> he is good at tv, we know that. we saw him basically giving a video interview to the president to confirm he got the job, it was an audition. that's not the job of the white house communication also director. >> his job is not going to be planning. >> who is going to plan? that's a problem for the white house. >> you know, what has been so many problems, this is not the number one problem. they're going to have an unorthodox communications director. >> you've known sean spicer for a long time. >> since '95. >> the person you know, is that the person you saw at the podium
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every day? >> quite only yes. he and i had a lot of very loud conversations over the years, somewhat frenemies as much as friends. i know his commitment to the company, he serves in reserves still. he was someone loyal to the president despite getting slings and arrows every day. we go to the same catholic church. being snubld bed at the vatican visit was hurtful for him. for him to walk away with graciousness and dignity as he did today, it says a lot. >> it is interesting to the point doug was making, that anthony scaramucci was talking in the press room, and effectively, but he was talking to president trump who he knew was watching. i mean all of that -- you know, i love the guy, he's great at this, he's great at this. >> yeah. >> i mean that is all stuff donald trump loves to hear, the president loves to hear. >> as i was watching that i was thinking, this guy separated a very rich people from an awful lot of money. he is a salesperson, and this is the skill that i think donald
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trump values above all others. he's also i think very comfortable, mr. trump, in fighting with somebody in one moment and then embracing them the next if he feels that the other person gave as good as they got. scaramucci actually some what you were saying about two fellows from long island, scaramucci actually spoke very de railwaysively about donald trump -- >> called him a hack. >> -- queens background. he said, he is a guy from queens who inherited all of his money. skra scaramucci is a guy from long island. they're someone who will say something horrible about you, and then the next day work with you. that's something trump is comfortable with. >> something about the timing of this today. i think they had a good day at the white house because yesterday, the day before, the president of the united states spoke on the record in such authoritarian tones that we have never on the record heard from
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an american president that i know of in our history. sounded like a juan perrone or somebody from a banana republic dictator, about how he is going to undermine the judicial system of the united states, how the attorney general of the united states has acted illegally because he's not been loyal to the president of the united states and followed a few procedures that indeed are called for in a legal investigation. we have never heard anything on our history like what the president uttered in terms of authoritarianism and danger to our judicial process. today it went away when scaramucci got up there. we were all focused and jumping up and down instead of going back to the president's words and what they meant. >> we got to leave it there. before we go the break we have late news on senate republican efforts to come up with a obamacare repeal and replacement bill. cnn learned the senate
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parliamentarian ruled key anti-abortion issues have been judged not to meet certain budget rules under which the entire piece of legislation is being voted on. so it is technical, but the bottom line is that this ruling effectively would keep certain abortion-related provisions out of the bill, which would cost it vital conservative support. up next with o.j. simpson planning for release from prison in his armed robbery case, we will bring you never-before heard excerpts from the tapes that rocked his murder trial. sarah philips joins us for the report, after o.j., the fuhrman tapes revealed when we come back. ever. coors banquet. that's how it's done. peobut they're different.ind it's nice to remove artificial ingredients. kind never had to. we choose real ingredients like almonds, peanuts and a drizzle of dark chocolate. give kind a try. ♪
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prison officials in nevada announced today o.j. simpson was moved to a different cell, away from inmate s who want to harm him before his release. never before heard excerpts from the tapes that rocked his murder trial, the special report, the fuhrman tapes revealed. they might have changed history. here's a preview of kyra phillips's report. >> reporter: she is laura mckinney, the writer who recorded conversations with mark
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fuhrman. >> anything out of a [ bleep ] mouth for the first is a lie. >> reporter: vulgar. >> she's a little five-foot jew. >> reporter: sexist. >> how do you arrest a violent suspect? i yell out, have a man do it! >> reporter: disturbing. >> you've got to be a borderline sociopath. you have to be violent. >> kyra phillips joins us with more on her special report. why did mckinney decide to come forward now, to talk now? >> a lot of people have asked me that. look, i tried to get her to talk to me 20 years ago. we've stayed in touch over the years. finally, she said she felt comfortable and she was ready because her heart was just telling her so. i mean, she flew under the radar, anderson, because she felt that these tapes swayed a verdict. that was a heavy burden for her to carry. and she got death threats and
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people hated her. people were furious that these got out. and she tried to hold them in a private place and not allow them to be released. but a court decided otherwise. >> i mean, it is impossible to overstate just the impact these tapes had, not only on the trial, but also on the lapd. >> absolutely. this is what you're going to hear of a lot tonight. we heard the n word. it was appalling to hear from mark fuhrman said and how he referred to blacks on the force and outside of the force. and the part you're going to see now is the sexist part. there was an organization called maw, men against women, and these guys wants to intimidate women and push them out. they wanted to do everything they could to bully them. that's the part that we department headidn't hear, the sexism. it was strong. it forced the lapd to change policy when it came to women and minorities. >> i can't wait to watch. thanks so much.
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>> you bet. >> it airs at 11:00 p.m. eastern here on cnn. first, another quick note, declassified, untold stories of american spies, returning tomorrow at 9:00 p.m. we'll be right back. what's going on here? um...i'm babysitting. that'll be $50 bucks. you said $30. yeah, well it was $30 before my fees, like the pizza-ordering fee and the dog-sitting fee... and the rummage through your closet fee. who is she, verizon? are those my heels? yeah! yeah, we're the same shoes. with t-mobile taxes and fees are already included, so you get four lines of unlimited for just $40 bucks each. the price we say is the price you pay. i wneverever wash my hair again now, i fuel it new pantene doesn't just wash your hair, it fuels it.
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that's all the time for tonight. i hope you have a great weekend. time to hand things over to don lemon and "cnn tonight." breaking news tonight. on the russia investigation, this is "cnn tonight." i'm don lemon. the russian ambassador told his superiors he discussed campaign-related matters with jeff sessions during the 2016 campaign. that is according to the "washington post" according to intercepts by spy agencies. sessions said he never discussed campaign issues with russian officials. this is not the first time information has come out to contradict his state m ments ab russia. plus, a white house shakeup. a battle pressed secretary sean spicer resigning after scaramucci, a trump fundraiser without any communications experience is named communications director. let's get to all