tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN July 25, 2017 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT
on a busy day in washington there were crucial votes in congress. trump team members behind closed doors in the russia investigation. the president of the united states lashing out at his attorney general. the fate of jeff sessions job is in limbo tonight. as of a few days ago he was to stay put. cnn confirmed, sessions' chief of staff, said the attorney general had no intention of stepping down. that conversation over the weekend. the president criticized sessions several more times since then, right up today. sarah murray in youngstown, where the president had a val rally. she joins me. the president finishing the rally a short time ago. curious, did he mention session he's talked about him now
several times today. >> that's right. he was asked about him several times today. seemed to intentionally leave him out there twisting, not getting any kind of answer about whether he wanted sessions to step aside or whether he might fire sessions. so of course we were all waiting to see if trump would unleash on his attorney general here at his rally in youngstown, ohio. he was clearly feeding off the crowd. but he didn't mention sessions by name. here's what president trump did have to say, about presidential behavior though. sometimes they say he doesn't act presidential. and i say, hey, look, great schools, smart guy, it's so easy to act presidential. but that's not going to get it done. in fact, i said, it's much easier, by the way, to act presidential than what we're doing here tonight, believe me.
and i said -- with the exception of the late, great, abraham lincoln, i can be more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. that i can tell you. >> now, clearly president trump has been taking flak including from members of his party for treatment of jeff sessions. that seemed like a not very veiled riff about what was going on there. as for session' fate, from trump gave no clue. >> joining me, michael bender, "wall street journal" reporter, asked the president about attorney general sessions. attorney general sessions the first sitting senator to endorse the president during the campaign. you had a fascinating exchange with him about sessions and about, loyalty. and about that early endorsement. what did he say? >> well we tried to ask him a couple times about what he was going to do with sessions. he wouldn't take the bait.
just kept saying he was disappointed. and then he started talking a little bit about white house personnel and mentioned anthony scaramucci. trump wanted to tell how scaramucci didn't endorse walker. he endorsed jeb bush. when jeb bush quit, there wasn't a whole lot of options left. he endorsed trump. trump said, while scaramucci came first and offered his support. i wasn't ready to run. really important to know he wanted to endorse trump first. after that he offered up the anecdote about how sessions, endorsed him, and not only the first senator to endorse him. the only senator throughout the entire primary process, to back donald trump. and, it was an influential, a big moment. in that primary campaign. but trump said that, well, you know, i drew 30,000, and, in trump's math, said 40,000 people
to, to, a mobile, alabama, sessions who is from alabama looked at the crowd and says, you know might as well endorse him. >> basically, i think trump said something to the words of the effe effect, it wasn't a loyalty thing. it was basically, he is saying that sessions jumped on the trump train because he saw a large crowd. >> yeah, that's right. jeff sessions is, is a politician. you know, i'm amy sure there was calculation in there. he is probably not 100% incorrect there. but, you know, sessions, sessions backed trump because, because of -- philosophical alignment with what trump was saying on immigration at a time when the almost entirety of the party, certainly in washington was criticized what trump was saying. so, i mean they line up. they lined up, perfectly back then. which is why, why sessions endorsed trump over ted cruz which you remember back then was, was, was pretty, was a big blow to ted cruz. who is trying to win the south.
trying to win the ee ven gel cal voters and trying to, you know, leaf ra leverage the immigration issues. >> sessions whether you believe in him or not, executing the president's policy over the department of justice right now. the president talked about the safety of robert mueller's job, too. >> he left that open. he wouldn't say what he wanted to do. he said he wanted to see what, what mueller did. which is news worthy and striking in itself. special counsel. independence implied in this. expected in this. trump is saying that he is the one who is going to decide. basically what, whether mueller is going down the right path or not. you know, and this, he talks about him in the same way he is talking about sessions. not about loyalty for donald trump. for all the talk about trump's
li loyalty. this is a transactional president. not, it's what you have done for me lately. not, you know, not a resume of what you have done for me in the past. >> yeah. michael bender. appreciate it. fascinating interview. with me, maggie, jeffrey, jeffrey, joshu, it is a availabe now. jeff, the, donald trump, the president, downplaying jeff sessions early endorsement. is that fair? i mean he was a key -- >> right. right. this is part of a larger kabuki theater type of thing. what strikes me this is news to us. i imagine he had this conversation over his disappointment on the recusal months ago directly with him. now we are finding it out. and he is, dragging this out. he is, doing this. i honestly, don't think that it helps him with, conservatives.
you know, because jeff sessions is himself. >> right. >> lot of conservatives coming to jeff sessions' defense. >> i do understand. i sort of softened on the recusal thing there. the more i think of this, the president is probably right. he shouldn't have recused himself. but he did. i will leave it to jeffrey say whether or not you can unrecuse. >> no, you can't. >> you can't unrecuse. recusal is a voluntary act. i mean, you -- there is no law requiring recusal. but once you recuse yourself. if the makes no sense to recuse yourself. >> you have rudy giuliani saying he was right to recuse himself. >> and mitch mcconnell. and, half the republicans in the senate. the reason they say he was right to recuse himself. he was right to recuse himself. that is not a close legal question. the only person who thinks he was wrong is, is donald trump. now admittedly he is an important person in the
equation. on the merit. i think, this is not a complicated or difficult question. >> joshua, the focus of your book. steve bannon, you write a lot about jeff sessions he was important during the campaign? >> he was the heart and soul of trumpism. before trumpism existed. sessions was out, 10, 15 years ago fighting against immigration reform. it points in 20913 bipartisan immigration reform effort, sessions was sometimes the lone vote in favor of immigration amendments. so aggressive that people like ted cruz couldn't support him. so this guy is, is the heart and soul of what trump believes. and i would imagine. you have to be painful to hem to be enduring this drawn out, ritual, public humiliation from a guy he bent over backwards to support. >> i remember interviewing sessions after the access hollywood tape came out. some within the trump camp wouldn't defend him and go on television. jeff sessions defended him. said, listen the man has changed. this was ten years ago.
this is not what he is focused on right now. so i think, it is a bit ironic for the president to say well the only reason he is rallying or was rallying around me because he saw crowds. jeff sessions literally stood by this man when others didn't. >> more than stood by him. had this conversation with the chief of staff. who is having this conversation with jeff sessions chief of staff whether jeff sessions will leave. when priebus asked trump as chairman of the republican national committee to consider dropping out of the race, and jeff sessions had said to priebus according to people familiar, let's wait and see how this plays out. wait and see what happens. do not rush to judgment. there were not a lot of people doing that. to your point. and he did do it. and so, again, this question of -- what loyalty means to the president. somebody e-mailed me a good point during the break before. this is not about loyalty for the president, it's afought it, he wants in his attorney general, he wants him to prove some level to the president which is not what the attorney
general's job is supposed to be. >> i think all of the people are self-interested. jeff sessions was doing something out of the goodness of his heart for donald trump. he was doing it because it was good for him. because he saw trump as being a vessel for his, for his world view. right? and so this was his way to, get, a person in the white house, who shared his views on some, very criticaler use th eissues and g position like he is in right now. i think the idea that any of the people are particularly loyal to each other. i don't think they are. they're loyal to themselves and their own interests. and you know, if donald trump hadn't been espousing the views that he looked he wouldn't have gotten behind him. it's that simple. so the truth is donald trump owes him a lot. there is no question that, that, jeff sessions getting on board with the campaign was, better for donald trump probably than it was for jeff sessions. it was kind of a risk for jeff sessions. but ultimately these are all people who are just operating in their best own interests. >> generally the relationships
are transactional. i believe that sessions believed in trump's approximately seize and did take a big risk. sessions thought at the time, that he had been punished. passed over for the chairmanship of the budget committee. very powerful committee after republicans within back the senate. punishment from party leaders being so aggressive on immigration and some of these things. he was worried if he did endorse trump and trump lost. i think at that point in time. i think most expect heed would. he would pay a real price. sessions more than almost anybody else in trump's orbit really did kind of take a leap of faith because he believed in what trump purported to stand for. >> and the president's rationale that he continues to espouse, and, that, that jeff sessions should have told him. he was going to recuse himself. in any russia investigation. had he done that. never would have a.ed him to be attorney general. doesn't make sense.
happened after the fact. nobody knew what would end up coming out. bit by bit by bit. as far as this administration and campaign affiliations with russians. >> got to take a quick break. more of the conversation ahead. later emotional moment in the senate. senator john mccain, returning to washington after brain surgery to cast a crucial vote in the health care fight. you don't let anything keep you sidelined. that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals. for the strength and energy to get back to doing... ...what you love. ensure. always be you. i tabut with my back paines, i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.
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sitting president to endorse trump and introduce him at a rally. >> i think of a great man. i just want to introduce you to him for a sec, do you know who i am talking about do. you know who i am talking about, nobody knows rights now. because we have kept it a surprise. senator jeff sessions. >> what a crowd. >> wow. what a crowd this is. >> back now, with the panel. just, maggie, in terms of the president's mind set, what does it say that he so easily seems went from that, to, to where he is now? >> it says that he is exactly the same person that we have known for the last three years. and that he is the same person he was before that. he is, he is, a deals guy. everything is all about making deals. everything is a transaction. i think michael bender alluded to that before, it is absolutely true. he sees everything in terms of a sliding scale of what can be
done for him. if some one is useful to him at any given moment. they're terrific and wonderful person. if they're not. he has a habit as i think we have seen repeatedly. when somebody wants to seek distance from some one, paul manafort, barely know that person. paul manafort was his campaign chairman. and then he started inching away from him in a pretty pronounced way. this is just who he is and huh he is. i think anyone is surprised by how he is treating sessions, should be surprise heed is doing it from the west wing not that he is doing it at all. >> fascinating to me that he does this from a distance. talks in front of a crowd about jeff sessions but doesn't talk to jeff sessions' face. >> actually. we don't know what their private conversations are, number one. we do know that jeff sessions, i continue to not understand to your question about what is real and what is not here, and what's known and what is not. jeff sessions offered his resignation several weeks ago. the president wouldn't take it. i don't know why it is that the president is sort of tormenting him. i don't know if there is something the president has learned about where mueller is going. or if there is something else related to this investigation that concerns him.
but it has heated up again. >> jeff, if, if -- jeff lord, if jeff sessions did step down resign or was fired, how damaging would that be for the president, in terms of his base. because the one thing one can say all along is that the president's base has held. this is the first time, you are hearing rumblings from, hard core supporters of the president. do not do this to jeff sessions? >> think there might be a bit of a problem to that. more to the point. i think it would be hell on wheels to get a successor appointed. because he would want to. if he did this, get somebody to pick a name at random, not so at random. ted cruz. well, you know, in that kind of environment, i think it would be al most impossible. or, if not very difficult, very difficult to get, to get, ted cruz, or, some one of that conservative, conservative bona fides approved. one of the other things i think he is really mad.
he sees this as an assault on his presidency. he won the election fair and square. he is the outsider as rush limbaugh was staying today, others said there is a silent coup here with the washington establishment trying to take him out. and i think he is very aware of that. i think, gary tuchman's report shows there are a lot of people out there that, that really believe in him. and, they see that there is an assault on him. >> you know why they believe in him, because according to the president, he is the second best president in the history of the united states. after abraham lincoln. >> second most presidential. >> second most presidential. >> he says so many crazy things that, we don't even pay any attention. can you imagine what he said tonight? >> like the boy scout stuff too, yesterday. people are. >> it's just like, what, who talks that way. >> jeff, there is the disconnect. >> you are in touch with the people in pennsylvania. >> no, no. >> people think he is the second best people in history, right? >> i think a lot of people think
he is a great president. he is doing a great job. that its, the, i mean no disrespect, that's just the disconnect here between, loosely washington media, new york elites, and -- >> those of us here on 58th street. we are out of touch. we think thomas jefferson, george washington, franklin roosevelt are better. what fools we are. >> it isn't that. his approval rating is at 36%. if we are suggesting that he is doing something that has overwhelming popularity that isn't true, number one. number two. doesn't mean if there is a binary choice of him and another person in,0002020 he doesn't win again. he may well. but something jeing he is some where that he isn't is a problem. he has often said the polls are fake. number one. number two in terms of silent coup, not sure what you are referring to. he has inability to not turn all of these institutions into something personal. and something about him. this is not an assault, an investigation into an attack on democratic institutions, during the election is note, somehow a
delegitimizing of him. he sees it that way. >> he sees it that way. a lot of people. i was never in favor of the special counsel. >> the establishment doesn't see it that way. >> what we have here, a problem, when archibald cox was fired. the media made him a saint. by the time ken star was doing this they went after ken star. >> in his own national security counsel -- the acting attorney, acting fbi director he accused of corrupt tugs day. based on something to do with his wife. >> for the second time. did that with us in an interview. dan coats, his director of national intelligence said last week. that there is no disagreement among the national security apparatus. this is a trump appointee. no disagreement. that russia intervened in the election tried to meddle in the election. the president refused to accept that. i guess i don't understand why that is the media fault. >> we got to take a quick break. more with the panel. breaking news in russia probe. why senate judiciary committee is dropping its subpoena of of paul manafort coming up. steve was born to move.
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will no longer need to appear at tomorrow's hearing. that is according to a source close to the matter who adds the two sides have agreed to continue talking. the decision comes after paul manafort spoke to the senate intelligence committee today. meanwhile, the president's son-in-law and senior adviser, jared kushner was back on capitol hill for a second day in a row. this time to talk with the house intelligence committee. democratic congressman, jim heinz is part of the panel. i spoke to him before we went on air. congressman, did you, your committee, learn anything new from jared kushner today anything beyond his comments in the statement he released yesterday? >> we did. as you might anticipate. whatever it was, three-plus hours of questioning. we got a lot of detail on many of the things he mentioned in his written testimony which we all saw yesterday. so, yeah, i do think we learned, as would be expected a fair amount of detail. >> chairman conway said, his answers were forthcoming and complete. he said he satisfied all my questions do. you agree with that? >> i will tell you that jared kushner made a good faith effort. and, and, you know he came here
voluntarily. he told us repeatedly over the course of the deposition, that he was welling to stay as long as it took. and so, you know, i kind of welcomed that, that, that attitude. we haven't seen that from, from all of the people involved in, in, or possibly involved in this, in this investigation. you know, whether it was complete or not. you know an investigation is a, is a lengthy thing. you know we have goi got to cross check, testimony by, witness like mr. jared kushner, against other witnesses i don't want to opine on comprehensiveness and completeness. i will tell you jared kushner made a strong good faith effort to, to answer the committee's question tuesday. >> the chairman also said he had no reason to have this point, kushner come back before the committee, do you agree with that? >> well, i think, i think it is a little early to answer that question. again. we are looking forward to having a number of other witnesses to give you an example. sort of the lead story now on the whole question of, possible link to russia is the president's son, don jr. admission that he had that
meeting at which curb cub was present. he confirmed that and gave us more details. obviously we have got to hear from the other people in the meeting as to exactly what happened so again a little early to draw conclusion as but the testimony. as i said before it was good that he came forward with a, with an altitude of, of answering whatever questions we had for him. >> does it seem credible to you that donald trump jr. would, would get an e-mail in which he is told that russia is backing his father in the election? and not tell anybody else about it. i mean not mention it to his father. not mention it to jared kushner, paul manafort, or anybody else? >> well, there is certainly, at least, two areas of questions that i have. number one, and using, don jr.'s own words, you know i think he said, i love it. i love the idea that, that there may be some incriminating information on secretary clinton. that means we need to understand exactly what was offered. exactly what was taken. and, and any follow-up that may have come out of the meeting. again i love it something jes you go into the meeting as don jr., i expect would have done, with the expectation that you
are going to get something pretty hot. pretty valuable. and of course, he did invite jared kushner, and, and, paul manafort, who were the most senior members of the campaign. so, for me the question is, okay, what came next. what was said in the meeting? what was promised? what was delivered? what was the follow-up? >> what is next for your committee? >> well, we -- have a schedule of witness whose will come in. some are sort of minor players in, in this overall tale. some of whom are not. people like paul manafort. and we are in the process of negotiating the timing. remember before we bring a witness in. this the one dischordant note about jared kushner's testimony. it came early in the sense that somebody that senior to the campaign. you would have looked to have had the opportunity to really go through the documents in an extensive and comprehensive way. the timing was offered. we take it. we will review documents and bring the witnesses in. >> congressman. appreciate your time. thanks. >> back now with the panel. i mean, maggie there are a lot
of players now who are going to be heard from wlu are, no longer with the trump campaign, paul manafort, carter page. are you hearing anything that that is a concern for people in the white house? >> no, i mean, look, i think the more the ancillary the circle gets harder it gets to control. you have people, roger stone. has a lengthy relationship with president trump. who is going, at some point going to be appearing, his testimony was canceled. i think that they are, in general, concerned, not just about fact, of what could be said, because i think that, you know when you talk to them they insist there won't be anything there. there is a concern about the closed door nature of the appearances so far. and that there is no transcript provided. so the question then becomes what leaks out from what is said behind cloelz closed doors can tone going forward in terms of public opinion. >> anderson, what we focus always on these witnesses. which witnesses coming in. which witness spoke. these cases are almost always, won or lost or broken or not broken on documents.
on e-mails. on any sort of, think about the one big piece of news that we had. it was, the e-mails, setting up the june 2016 meeting. those are going to tell the story because. witnesses can taylor their stories, they can forget. e-mails are going to, and the question, i have, and i don't really know, the answer yet. is how much access to the e-mails the congressional committees have. >> i asked that question. no one really seems to say. >> and, mueller, will certainly be able to subpoena anything he wants. and there are no privileges attached. there is no, there is no classified information issue. he is really going to be able to have the, the e-mails. and those will, i think tell the story. even more than any witness testimony. >> also, who if any body took notes during that meeting. last june. and there had been speculation as to whether that was indeed paul manafort and whether that
was that paul manafort would be willing and open to turning over. the question still remains. given the number of people in the room and the nature of the meeting i wouldn't be surprised if one of the people, one of the eight, if not more, did take notes. and documented it. >> what was discussed. >> we have another day here with no their there. we heard a congressman say, that he was relatively pleased. because jared kushner has nothing to hide. there is nothing there. they keep looking for this. every day they come up empty. i mean this is just being. >> this is the source of the president -- >> isn't this. this is how investigations work. you can't say on every day, well, there is nothing to day. that means there is nothing there. >> i think they also like the fact that he is, actually being transparent. you know, that, they're welcoming the fact that he is coming up. he is, or at least seeming to be transparent. he is lag outying out a lot. giving explanation. we knew one side of the story before. he provided another side of story. i think in some cases he has given plausible explanations for
some of the things why he wanted the secure line, for example. which originally looked very suspicious. and looks less suspicious with his explanation. all that said these are his explanations. they're not. this is his story. there has to be some sort of follow-up to make sure. >> the idea that nothing has been learned. i mean, remember the president, the vice president, we, we have heard them all say for months. there is no evidence that there were many connections between the campaign and the russians. nothing at all. the whole thing is fake news. the whole thing is a joke. then the e-mails come out of the june meeting and suddenly, jay is on television, saying, well there was no, no crime here. that's a big difference. >> there is no crime here. >> well there may, may not be. but it just, the story has changed. because new facts. >> the partisan nature of this. the very fact there is no investigation of hillary clinton on this. and her russian ties a awe who? she might run for city council
in chappaqua? what do you care? >> because if the subject is russian meddling in the election she was the other candidate. right? so what her are her ties to russia. >> it will establish, jeffrey russia was frying to help donald trump. i don't understand what would hillary be doing. it doesn't make sense. i think the other problem is i think, you know, donald trump really acts like the victim in all of this. why is everybody so interested in this russia thing, this russia investigation, when the intelligence committee has said that russia tried to swing our election. and donald trump has never expressed any interest in actually investigating that. and had he done that, i think people would be a lot less suspicious of him. and if his, when you have people work for him, say we have never inquired about this. we don't want to know what happened. we have never asked. i mean that's -- >> one other variable here. we don't know what happens in closed door testimony not until somebody leaks. one thing we can look at, is donald trump and behavior and twitter feed. clearly he is agitated and upset
about what, about the information he is getting abut the hearing. because he has been so fixated on sessions. and we can see this from his public behavior. and in speaking to white house officials. this has been going on privately. >> he is bringing up hillary clinton again. something he dismissed. >> i don't think it is the hearings. i think two things. one is mueller and the scope of what mueller is doing. what you have heard white house aides, white house counsel office get very concerned about over the last two months has been the degree to which robert mueller's office is beginning to look like a finance crimes office. like that is what they're looking at. if i don't know if it is mission creep. that is where, what the type of specialist that he is hiring. so there is one thing that concerns them. and the other is don't forget. the prospect this week, not happening now, but there was this prospect of trump's son. his namesake son. openly testifying. at a hearing. and being asked questions. and, trump's aides were very, very worried about eat fekt that
was going to have on him. the degree to which this is getting close to his family shouldn't be ignored either. >> quick break. in a moment. breaking news tonight. a key vote to advance the gop health care bill. palgs e passed the senate. now the democrats are trying to do a stall tactic. latest on that ahead. i'm leaving you, wesley. but why? you haven't noticed me in two years. i was in a coma. well, i still deserve appreciation. who was there for you when you had amnesia? you know i can't remember that.
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breaking news out of washington. crucial senate vote moves the ball forward on republican attempts to repeal and replace obamacare. the motion barely passed. knife's emmargin after pence cast the tie-breaking vote. tonight the democrats are trying stall tactic on the gop effort. cnn's correspondent joins us from capitol hill with the latest. so, republicans clearing a big hurdle today. a vet tonight. has the that, do we know the results of that yet? >> yeah, happening right now, andersen. matter of fact this is part of 209-hour process, of debate before, before the amendments get put down on the floor. essentially what is happening now is they're dispatching with some of these different versions of the health care plan that republicans have proposed. and what they're voting on tonight, was, an effort by -- senator rob portman and a few other republicans to bring moderates and conservatives together. this was a bill that, that offered up some expansions for medicaid payments and also expanded the cruz amendment put up by ted cruz. now this is expected to be voted down to day. but this is just just the
beginning of the process. they will reconvene again tomorrow. and then, the process continues on. then we are going to get to a pin the where we call it voter-rama, amendments put on the floor by all different members. every member allowed to put amendments on the floor. see democrats put amendments up of stripes. to get republicans on the record as it relates to health care. at the end of the day, andersen. they don't have the votes. and republicans are still going to attempt to try and come up with some sort of negotiated deal that they can get 50 votes for and get health care moving forward. >> there was obviously a very big moment. senator john mccain took the floor to vote today. >> yeah, very dramatic, andersen. that's what we expected. what we didn't expect was the passionate speech that senator mccain gave on the floor of the senate, where he first, said that he was going to vote yes, to move the bill to the floor. but then, he scolded his fellow senators, both republican and democrats saying they're not doing enough to work together and that the body, the greatest
delibrative body in the history of the united states, has not done a very good job living up to the reputation. he even suggest heed doesn't think this effort is going to be successful. he said it is likely this a bill will ultimately fail and then perhaps everyone can take a deep breath, start from scratch and work together. and even though there is no doubt that senator mccain's word were heard, you could hear a pin drop here in the halls of the senate. there is no real evidence that, that is going to lead to any bipartisan cooperation up here any time soon. especially when it relates to something as divisive and health care reform. >> appreciate the update. back to our panel. you know, john boehner said again, he doesn't think this is going to happen. that it is repeal and preplace is not going to go forward. >> all indications suggest that right now. that having been said. i think there is going to be something of a zombie process. where you are going to see this keep going for a while until end of september for reconciliation process to end. but people in the the white house expect this is going to continue and be taken up again
if it fails. next year. and, because they, very concerned with the fact that the republicans campaigned for three consecutive psych lds on repeal, replace. you have seen the president say this as well. it can't get done. i think that this is, for republicans, becoming something of a spectacle right now. a reason that they is not going anywhere. a very unpopular bill. the initial house bill. 12% approval rating. and obviously you have senators who have to go home to constituents and now be held accountable for this bill. the president, i am afraid will, view this as a victory. the motion to proceed. and view his tactics and getting senators to vote, whether it is bullying through twitter, criticizing them publicly as a right move on his part and continue to do so, he has already in "the wall street journal," talking about tax reform and moving on to that. so, there really does seem to be confusion. >> he kept a foot in each camp for this for a while. to your point, number one. bunch of red states you have senators who have constituent whose are on obamacare who like
obamacare, some who do not. but you had all the house members go out and walk the plank on the first vote for that first bill. and they are facing backlash from it. we have yet to see what will happen at some of these, you know, recease town halls and what happens going into the end of december. but the midterms are not looking particularly great right now. as a climate. >> doesn't help when the president himself. supports the house measure and then calls it mean. >> correct. correct. >> midterms, we should say, that most presidents have a hard time with midterms. i can thing of just, off the top of my head, jfk, george w. bush and bill clinton. did all right in their second, jfk in his only one. >> great. that doesn't make it bet for the path they face ahead. no one is saying, specific to this president. it is just what they're facing. >> yeah, you are going to see, what i think is interesting here, a lot of people in the base of the republican party, turning against their own members, if they feel, that they have, have not come through with their, you know, repeal obama
care. >> well this is why republicans face such a squeeze. there are a lot of republican based voters that benefit from obamacare don't want to see it gone. are showing up at the townhalls and getting very angry. on the other hand you have conservatives who have been promised this is going to be repealed for years, years, years, i think if republicans are afraid, in a sense for this to end with any kind of finality and admit failure. so all the political incentives are aligned to dragging this out, even having a promise of doing this next year which would never happen in an election year, simply to avoid having to admit a kind of ultimate defeat. >> that's right. >> and also, the midterm election issues, you know, presidents doing badly in the midterm election don't happen in a vacuum. clinton in 1994, didn't happen because it was 1994 and they magically showed up and voted against him. they were reacting to his leadership or lack of leadership in that case. >> health care. >> exactly. it is not a foregone c
conconclusion. the republicans put themselves in a situation where it is becoming a foregone conclusion because they backed themselves into a corner where there doesn't seem to be any good answer they have just created this political problem by promising to do something they never actually had a plan for. and now, even if they somehow did get it through they're probably still in trouble. really, either way, whatever happens here, they're going to end up in a bad position. because if they do pass it, nobody likes the bill. >> uh-huh. >> so, and people are going to lose their health care. and if they've don't pass it then everyone is going to say you promised me -- >> danger not having passed something or danger of having passed something -- >> they're both bad. >> they'd be better off moving on. >> right. if you cut people off health care, 20 million, 30 million, whatever it is, substantial numbers of them are going to die. that's what happens. >> oh, jeffrey. >> no, when people lose their health insurance. they die. and not all of them. certainly more because they lack health insurance. that is something that i think
argues for keeping people in health insurance. you disagree? >> well all i am saying to you is when you say people are going to lose their health insurance. people who didn't want it in the first place. >> no, that's not what is going to happen, actually. >> no, if you just pass this bill, the bill where you get rid of the individual mandate, the cbo said 15 million, 20 million people will lose their insurance just with that. and so, 15 million to 20 million people did not, not want insurance. that's not what happened. let me just finish. the reason that will happen because i think the people you are talking about, the healthy people will stop buying healthy insurance. that leaves all of the sick people with insurance. >> but -- >> and it will collapse. >> these, these estimates, as pointed out, the cbo said there would be, 26 million people on obamacare, by 2017. it's 2017. >> jeffrey, is # million okay? >> well, what i am saying. >> 10 million. >> these estimates are bogus. just cbo. >> you will admit some people
will lose their health -- large percentage of people will lose health care. >> i did a whole story on a guy who died because of obamacare. there are people out there who really have a problem with it. >> he died from getting health insurance? >> he died because -- obamacare rules and regulations that the he was not to be treat ford something that had a like a two night stay mandatory. >> come on -- >> this is what his family said. told this by the doctor. you can quote, unquote, thank president obama. >> doesn't seem like everybody in the medical community, from all realms are against this. does that not raise? >> against which? >> against trump -- >> aarp, doctors. >> which isn't always the case. they're not usually united. >> pretty united. unusual they all seem on the same page which doesn't seem to happen every day. any way, got to take a break. come right back talk about something the president set in his rally tonight about criminal aliens, slicing, dicing, beautiful teenage girls with a knife. talk about that next. keep you sidelined. that's why you drink ensure. with 9 grams of protein and 26 vitamins and minerals.
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going somewhere? whoooo. here's some advice. tripadvisor now searches more than 200 booking sites to find the hotel you want and save you up to 30%. trust this bird's words. tripadvisor. we were in a german dance group. i wore lederhosen. so i just started poking around on ancestry. then, i decided to have my dna tested through ancestry dna. it turns out i'm scottish. so, i traded in my lederhosen for a kilt. the president was in who i tonight for a rally, went back to some of the comments from his campaign days including a kind of dystopian vision of what's happening in the country particularly with regard to gangs and illegal immigrants. >> the predators and criminal alien who's poison our
communities with drugs and prey on innocent young people, beautiful, beautiful innocent young people, will find no safe haven in our country. and you've seen the stories about some of these animals. they don't want to use guns because it's too fast and it's not painful enough. so they'll take a young, beautiful girl, 16, 15, and others and they slice them and dice them with a knife because they want them to go through excruciating pain before they die. and these are the animals that we've been protecting for so long. well, they're not being protected any longer, folks. >> back now with the panel. some of the president's supporters will say he was
talking about gang members. >> sure, and he's going to do some event related to gangs on friday in new york, as well. but this is actually the playbook that the president resorted to as a candidate when he was having rough moments which he would play very hard to the base. i don't think it's a coincidence it's on the issue that jeff sessions focused most significantly on which is illegal immigrants. he is trying to cleave people upset about his treatment of sessions toward him and away from the attorney general. >> that's interesting. >> he paints word pictures. he's very good at this. whatever the subject. and i frankly think it comes out of his skill as a reality tv host. he knows that, you know, don't stand up there and give some boring policy speech. say things of this nature here that paint a vivid image in people's minds and people responded to it. forget just this subject. he does this over and over again. >> here's the problem. the voters he's reaching with that kind of i thinkry, the
slasher movie, macabre stuff he liked to do during the campaign and did tonight, these are the kind of people that care about immigration. this goes back to sessions because the one guy in his cabinet who is actually doing something who has the power to enforce these laws and is enforcing these immigration laws, arrests are up, sessions has sent extra administrative judges to u.s./mexico border to help process cases. today he sent out a statement threatening sanctuary cities who coddle these supposed killers. sessions is the one guy who is delivering on trump's promises at a time when the rest of his agenda seems to be bogged down. i think that's one reason why you saw this kind of timid conservative pushback toward the hazing that sessions has been getting from the president. >> if i could make an incredibly boring point about accuracy, i'm unaware of any prosecutor or police officer in this country who coddles people who carve up
young women. i mean, like what does that even mean? it's just not true. >> well. >> what does it mean about coddling people who carve up. >> i'll give you. >> we're almost out of time. >> well, jamiel shaw senior, the african-american whose 17-year-old son was killed by an illegal out of the jail one day. and he kills jameel straw's son, coddled. >> how was he coddled? was he arrested right afterwards? >> he was in jail before this happened. >> what were the circumstances he was released? >> how were they supposed to know. >> we're out of time. we've got to take a quick break. we'll be right back. americans - 83% try to eat healthy.
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don't let directv now limit your entertainment. xfinity gives you more to stream to more screens. that's all the time we have. time to hand things over to don lemon for cnn tonight. i'll see you tomorrow. president trump tells a cheering crowd in ohio this. >> with the exception of the late great abraham lincoln, i can be more presidential than any president that's ever held this office. that i can tell you. >> this is cnn. sorry, i'm don lemon. how presidential is he rea