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tv   Anderson Cooper 360  CNN  July 26, 2017 9:00pm-10:00pm PDT

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and been very well received, both by the trump base, and by the president, and by a core group of supporters in the white house. i think what he's doing right now, anthony scaramucci, is he's leveraging his capital, to maybe clear the way so that he can be more effective in his job. >> right. >> and, you know, i personally watched him in front of the cameras in the last 48 hours, over the weekend and thought, this is a man who clearly channels the style of the president, and could easily take on the role of chief of staff. what you need ultimately, and if you study every west wing that has been effective and hasn't been effective, is you really do see, the most acceptable presidencies have strong chiefs of staff that are able to organize the flow of the information to the president. that is the model. this model, they try to
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implement with reince there, but frankly, reince doesn't have the trust of the president. >> you said that much more articulately that i said it. i tried to get it out of perez. also, he's much better at this than spicer, than kellyanne conway, than anyone who has spoken for the president thus far. i think everyone's giving him credit for it, whether you believe what he's saying or not. everybody spins. but he's much better -- some things are so outlandish that you would hear out of the other two. and even sarah huckabee sanders, you think, oh, my gosh, i can't believe they're saying that. >> one caveat to your point, though, one ally that reince priebus has cultivated and formed in the west wing is steve bannon. it's been rel reported they have a partnership and alliance. you wonder tonight if he's reading this maybe for the first time. when he comes in in the morning. what are the -- there's always a morning senior staff meeting. at least in my experience. what's that look like at 7:30
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a.m. tomorrow? >> it's the top of the hour. i need to tell our viewers what's going on here. we're reporting breaking news here. this is something that was tweeted from the new white house communications director late tonight, raising a lot of eyebrows. he wrote, in light of the leak of my financial disclosure info, which is a felony, i will contacting the fbi, and the justice department. then he added, #swamp and reince priebus' twitter account. no response from reince priebus. no response from the white house. the justice department issued a statement earlier, not connected to this, but on leaks in general. justice department correspondent, evan, are you there? >> i am. >> so then he says, the leak of my financial disclosure information which is a felony, if this information is online, as you say it is, and it is not classified, then is he
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accurate -- inaccurate? is that a felony? and would it appear not to be if someone gives the information because it's already out there? >> well, yeah. i mean, it appears he might have filed it, it may not yet be online. but the reporter at politico was able to get it. it's not classified information. that's what concerns the fbi. and so i'm not sure that this is going to be something that the fbi is going to spend much time on. and he seems to be, i mean, the way -- he seems to be pointing the finger at someone. it looks like infighting in the white house. the fbi is not going to spend a lot of time trying to referee a fight between the chief of staff and the president's new communications director. this is something that the president needs to referee, that they need to work out for themselves. this is not something that the fbi should be brought into. >> i think this is an aversion of power and fear. by putting this out there.
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as margaret hoover said, this would never happen in the bush white house. no one would have stood for this. >> i can't imagine anyone at the obama white house anyone who have stood for this kind of public belittling, berating and knife fight amongst their senior staff. you're not doing the american people's business if you are publicly fighting your colleagues. >> if the president has confidence in scaramucci, why doesn't he just go directly to him and tell him to tell reince priebus stop leaking my information. >> and the president just fires him. >> have him fired as opposed to going to twitter and making this public appeal. >> because the way to get to the president is to go on television or to go -- >> i assume scaramucci can talk to him by telephone as well. he doesn't have to go to twitter to communicate to the president. >> it's unprecedented. and the thing i always like to take a step back and say what's the net effect of this on the republicans in washington. >> unprecedented is -- >> a whole bunch of republican
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congressmen and senators are going to wake up tomorrow, they're probably asleep and they're going to wake up tomorrow and say, there goes another day on messaging, maybe talking about tax reform or health care. all they reporters are going to be running up and down the hall saying, what do you think about these tweets? >> but he is the communications director. isn't that his job? it's obviously something that i would imagine he has the ear of the president. he's having dinner with the president tonight. this is coordinated. he's not going out there and doing this on his own. >> we don't know that. we can speculate. >> do you think he's free lancing on that? >> we can speculate on that. it would be surprising if somebody just picked up their phone and say, i'm so angry, i'm going to do this. which has far reaching communications and governmental implications without clearing it. >> is ryan still there? >> i'm still here, don, yeah.
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>> here's the question. anthony scaramucci has very little experience, if any, as communications director. do you think he realizes the impact of this? do you think he's free lancing? >> i think he's absolutely free lancing. >> you don't think the president knew he was going to do this? >> you know, that's a good question. i think it was a sort of a spur of the moment thing. i don't know that for sure. i also will say in the tweet, it sounded like it was in the future tense, he will contact the fbi. i've been told that he has contacted them. so there's a little bit of a discrepancy there. that he's actually already gone to the fbi to ask them about this. but in the tweet he has a different -- he said something different. i was told by a senior white house official that it's already happened. >> you don't think there's any other way this will be spun in the morning by the white house
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and by scaramucci? it's including reince so he would know because he's chief of staff. >> you know, i just -- i mean, trump's got to make a decision, don't you think? can two people that are having a public fight like this, where one person is calling the fbi on another? think if someone called the fbi -- >> he's having a public fight with jeff sessions, and the fbi. >> your question is exactly right. we're sitting here speculating about ryan, you say you've got 100% confirmation this is aimed at reince. but if we wake up in the morning and scaramucci says, i'm just notifying reince that we're going to end these leaks, this whole conversation becomes moot to some degree. but ryan's reporting is different from that. we'll see in the morning how he reacts. >> i think it would be very difficult for him to back away and say that he tagged reince priebus in that. >> yeah, he didn't do --
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>> someone from the white house would have called cnn and told them that the story is inaccurate. they're monitoring this news 24 hours a day. >> mucc, call in. he's been on air before. >> for president trump. >> he's called the control room before. go on. it's just fascinating to me, in the last six months, just how mu much -- you can't say this is the news media. you're a trump supporter. this is created by the communications director, regardless of how they try to spin it. if you put something out there like that, as a communications director, you can't expect people not to report on it. >> i agree. any senior white house staffer who makes a statement like this, you have to understand the consequences that you've just destroyed the next 24 hours of whatever else the white house was wanting to be communicating about, whoever.
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if you're in that level of position, and you say something out loud like this, the message of the day tomorrow, and probably the next day, is gone. and that's the consequences of it. >> here's anthony scaramucci, again, talking about leaks. this is from yesterday. >> i would like the leaks to stop. now, all of the cynics around here and the tweets and all this other nonsense say the leaks are never going to stop. i know the leaks will never stop. but if i can dial back the leaks in the department that i am representing, and in the department that i am running, then i will feel that i've accomplished something on behalf of our president. i don't think i can stop the leaks interagency, or there are some senior people in here that are leaking on each other. i would tell my colleagues to stop doing that. it doesn't help the president. it's embarrassing to the institution of the presidency and it makes you look very, very small when you're leaking on your colleagues. that's not good team sports. >> okay. so here it is.
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again, we don't have any clarification or anything from the white house about scaramucci. but if you read this, right, anyone would say, he thinks that obviously the president's concerned about leaks, his administration. he feels that reince priebus is leaking something and he's sending a message to reince priebus. >> i think he sent off a nuclear grenade in the middle of the west wing. what he's done, he knows the president wants to get rid of leakers. he has said i'm here to get rid of leakers and help the president in that mission. and oh, by the way, the chief of staff is leaking against me and others. he's essentially taken his high stock coming into the position in the trust of the president and his really elevated stature in this moment, he's leveraging the capital he has in the west wing right now and pointing his fire on the chief of staff. you know, sean spicer left, it's been well reported over the last several months that bannon and reince priebus' stock has gone
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down a bit over time, to another cohort or faction of the gary cohen and sort of the "new yorker" cabal in the west wing. scaramucci is closer to that faction than the reince and bannon faction. it is very possible that that faction becomes more weakened and scaramucci is able to leverage the political power he has right now to really help clean house in the west wing in the way that will make it a more effective west wing for donald trump. >> you said he set off what? >> a nuclear grenade. >> so, that being said, this is -- maybe it's a nuclear grenade to change the messaging, or to change the subject. i don't think they want to change the subject. i think they would love to change the -- >> that suggested this is a -- >> but to change it about jeff sessions, because jeff sessions, that's not a good narrative for
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the white house. jeff sessions has a lot of political capital, especially with the people donald trump needs. >> i don't think it doesn't occur to me that anthony scaramucci was considering any of the other political issues facing the white house right now when he sent this tweet. he's trying to make a point. i think he's probably at his wit's end with some of these personalities he's dealing with. what we're seeing play out is a knife fight amongst the -- beside the fact that it's not dealing with the business of the american people, whether it is transgenders serving in the military, the health care bill they've been promising to repeal, or any other number of policy measures -- >> why wouldn't he do this. because this is what the president does. the president's doing this with members of the intelligence community. and also, his chief law enforcement officer in the country. he's doing the exact same thing. >> that's the point i was trying to make earlier.
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but scaramucci seems to be more of a tactician than a strategist. and that is exactly what i think donald trump is, too. he seems to act on his whims in terms of what's the most effective tactics of the moment. and to advance the white house agenda. >> an effective -- if reince priebus were to become an effective chief of staff to mobilize the west wing than it has run so far, that would be a strategy. maybe he's very clearly trying to put himself in a position where he has -- >> but without reince priebus, who does the white house have to represent itself to the washington gop political stab issuement? who do they have to talk to the community. he still has to get legislation passed. if the goal is to pass legislation, the reason why reince priebus was put in place in the beginning is because he had the capacity to talk to the members of congress. what hasn't worked for --
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scaramucci doesn't have the political capital, and trump doesn't have that political capital. he's attacking sessions who has that capital. who's left -- >> when you come carrying the message of the president, and is authentically representing the president's interest, and you know is representing the president, has authority. it doesn't have to be reince priebus. president bush brought people in. if they are speaking on behalf of hillary clinton or barack obama or -- >> this -- we're not talking directly about russia. but i don't think this changes the narrative. because this is indirectly about russia. it's all about leaks. to think that they're changing the narrative about russia, it's not happening. they're still talking about russia. >> we're been out here around 50 minutes. we talked about the transgender decision. we've been talking about this issue. you know what we haven't talked about? the fact that the president
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today had an amazing jobs announcement in wisconsin. which for the white house was -- that was the news of the day that they wanted to be proudest of. >> tell that to the president. >> this is my point. this is my point. we're not talking about it, and guess what, no one's going to be talking about it in washington in the morning because they're going to be talking about this. when that is absolutely the message that this president needs to be sending to the industrial midwest where he shocked the world last november. i regret that, for the president, because that jobs announcement today was really amazing. now we're not talking about it. >> that's the communications director's job. >> you don't think this was a good idea? >> i think that you have to understand the consequences of these kinds of things, which is, whatever oxygen was going to be existing on the cable networks for the jobs announcement is now going to be taken up by this issue. he might say, look, it's short-term pain for long-term gain. if i can eliminate all information leaks out of this government, long-term that's the best thing for the president.
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>> you know that's not going to happen. >> you might say that. >> that is never, ever going to happen. ryan, is that going to happen? one can never eliminate the leaks of coming out of any administration. lots of people have tried it. good luck to him, though. >> absolutely. i think scaramucci is on a jihad to get to -- to shut down people. and frankly, there's a lot of paranoia right now between his camp and reince's camp. and a lot of finger pointing going back and forth about who's leaking on whom. and, you know, i think that may have been what happened tonight. something sent scaramucci off. where he just decided he needed to go nuclear on reince. the timing of this is a little unusual, you know, 11:00 on a wednesday night. and remember, he had just come from dinner with president trump shortly before he tweeted that. >> i have to say, the timing is amazing on this.
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and as i sit here every single night, i think -- then they pull me back in. >> maybe scaramucci will stop talking about transgender -- >> i don't think so. that plays well to the base. thank you all. thanks for watching. i'll see you right back here tomorrow night. "ac 360" picks up from here in just a minute. good night. yeah, well it was $30 before my fees, like the pizza-ordering fee and the dog-sitting fee... and the rummage through your closet fee. who is she, verizon? are those my heels? yeah! yeah, we're the same shoes. with t-mobile taxes and fees are already included, so you get four lines of unlimited for just $40 bucks each. the price we say is the price you pay.
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♪ boo! yet up 90% fall short in getting key nutrients from food alone. let's do more. add one a day men's complete with key nutrients we may need. plus heart-health support with b vitamins. one a day men's in gummies and tablets. president trump today banned transgender people from serving in the military. how and when this will be implemented is still a mystery. a short time ago i spoke with a former navy s.e.a.l. who became transgender after two decades in the military. what is the impact, do you think, for those service members for serving, who have been serving honorably? >> just like you said, they've been serving honorably. they've been in war zones. they're my friends. those are people who are serving on the front lines of american
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freedom and liberty. now they're going to be told they're going to be rejected and unworthy to serve? that's a slap in the face. there's going to be a lot of repercussions. you think it's expensive to pay for a few things for these individuals. this is going to get really expensive really fast. >> right now, we're back to the panel, joining the conversation, christine quinn and justine. is this just about politics? shoring up the base at a time when he's getting heat from conservatives? >> i do think it's about politics. and that is even sadder to me. because what we had was a president of the united states after he said in the campaign he would stand with the lgbt community. simply saying, stand with the transgender community, to wake up this morning, and say transgender americans are unfit to serve. they can't be in the united states military. it's absolutely politics. to distract all of us from
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russia, to throw red meat to the conservatives who are angry about jeff sessions. and that makes it even more unamerican. to attack americans, to send a message to transgender americans who have the highest suicide rates, that they're not willing, even if they're willing to die for this country is repugnant enough, but to do it for cheap votes makes it nothing short of unamerican and disgusting. and before jeffrey lloyd raises it, it took barack obama way too long to do this. i don't want to get trump pivot that us democrats and lgbt activists were easier on trump and clinton. because we were not. and that is only more disrespectful to the -- what he's done to transgender americans today. >> jeff, you now have thousands of transgender men and women who have come forward because they believe the u.s. had changed its policy. is it fair to them for the
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president to wake up and suddenly it seems like without any preamble or public discussion, to say that they're going to be kicked out of the military? >> well, anderson, it sounds to me like he was having this discussion with his military advisers. i don't know. but that's certainly the way it sounds to me. >> no one will say where the discussion was. it seems like before heads of each branch of the military were caught offguard. >> anderson, i don't know. let me just say this. i hate to disappointment my friend christine. but on a scale of -- >> it's a low bar, jeffrey, low bar. >> when you think of that rally in youngstown last night, the president didn't say this there. if there were a time to maximize it politically, it was right then and there with all the tef vision cameras including cnn were on it, in front of thousands, he could have done that. i honestly don't think this issue registers with most americans. good lord, i saw a poll during the campaign that said abortion
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didn't even register. that used to be the hot-button issue of all hot-button issue. >> you don't believe this had anything to do with politics, that it just happens to come at a time when conservatives are critical of the president for his treatment of jeff sessions? and when, you know, the russia investigation seems to be ram upg up? >> if that were the rationale, you've got to pick a better issue than this one. while we're on the subject -- >> you don't think transgender people are the easiest people to pick on in this so sigh it? >> for goodness sakes, they're people. can we not like -- these are human beings, jeffrey. why does that cease to matter too trump supporters. these are american human beings. and just throw them under the bus. >> while we're on the subject, anderson, i want to make one point. i'm learning from you tonight that the federal government is paying for, what do i want to
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say -- >> viagra? >> thank you. they have no business doing that either. what is the matter? and to hear people say, it's not a lot of money. i used to work on the hout budget committee staff for a time. >> you're saying president trump should come out and ban viagra in the u.s. military? does the president have the backbone to ban viagra in the u.s. military? >> i hope he does. i would be for it. >> viagra is $46 million. all erectile dysfunction drugs come in about $90 million. jeffrey, as i -- let me tell you, that is not my greatest concern for a host of different reasons. i understand some of my brothers have challenges. i want to support them to live a full life. let's be clear -- you know what, i'm joking but i'm not, but really, medical coverage is about medical needs. that's a defined medical need,
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as is transitional gender alignment surgery. they get military -- you know what, people serve, they risk their lives, some of them tragically live and they get medical coverage. they should get the best medical coverage. >> but viagra? >> who are you to say that a man serving in the military doesn't need viagra? that's ridiculous. >> american military got along for 200 years without viagra, all of a sudden this is a necessity? >> jeffrey, what you're arguing is like back in the old days people were impotent and it was okay. >> viagra is not something that anybody should be prescribed? >> you're backing into a reverse argument. >> all i'm saying is pay for it yourself. pay for it yourself. >> so the headline is, jeffrey lord tells u.s. military pay for your own viagra? >> yes. >> you're behind that? >> yes.
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>> because you have nothing rational to say about the transgender ban. you've now put yourself in a more anti-military position. because there is no defense. no defense. >> you're making it sound as if viagra is for social use like going out to a disco and popping a viagra. there are legitimate reasons why people take this. you know, from what i've read, you know -- anyway. it just seems like don't you argue that our military members should get the best medical care they can possibly get, and have that the best lives with their families as possible? >> or is the new trumpcare parcelling out what heroes get? >> we're in the business in america of providing the basics for people, we're not in the business of perfecting everybody's sex life. i'm sorry. it couldn't happen anyway. >> this is an absurd argument. the real issue is donald trump,
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for no military reason, the pentagon were blindsided. he woke up this morning, we don't know why, because it may be just because he's a hateful man that hates transgender americans. if it's for political reasons, it's even worse. this is a bad day for lgbt americans. but i can also clearly send a message from the whole community that this day will not stand. if donald trump thinks 147 characters can beat the lgbt community and transgender community, he is, again, wrong, and doesn't know what he has stirred up. >> we've got to take a break. >> i'm just talking about if the premise is that the government pays for everybody's medical expenses for things like this, then this is part of the problem. it goes far beyond the military and being transgender. >> jeff, the president is saying they shouldn't be allowed -- you're supporting the president saying they should not be allowed to serve. anyway, we've got to take a break. breaking news on health care.
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the senate rejects a full obamacare repeal, after seven gop rejections in the vote. details on that in a moment. kin. and before that? you mean after that? no, i'm talking before that. do you have things you want to do before you retire? i'd really like to run with the bulls. wow. hope you're fast. i am. get a portfolio that works for you now and as your needs change with investment management services. over the course of 9 days sthe walks 26.2 miles,. that's a marathon. because he chooses to walk whenever he can. and he does it with support from dr. scholl's. only dr. scholl's has massaging gel insoles that provide all-day comfort to keep him feeling more energized. so he even has the energy to take the long way home. keep it up, steve! dr. scholl's. born to move.
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let's give this guy gig- really? and these kids. and these guys. him. ah. oh hello- that lady. these houses! yes, yes and yes. and don't forget about them. uh huh. sure. still yes! you can get it too. welcome to the party. introducing gig-speed internet from xfinity. finally, gig for your neighborhood too. other breaking news, senate democrats say they will not offer any health care amendments until the gop leaders reveal their full plan. this comes after seven republicans went against party leaders to a repeal and delay bill. we're joined now from capitol hill. we're expecting senate democrats to begin offering amendments. now minority leader chuck schumer has changed course. what are they planning. >> make no mistake, anderson, this is somewhat of a pr stunt
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by democrats. it's an important part of this process because it gave them the opportunity, or gives them the opportunity to get republicans on the record on a number of different issues related to health care. now, what we thought was going to happen is that when the 20 hours of debate on this bill ends, sometime tomorrow, the democrats would begin offering up hundreds of amendments on a variety of topics related to health care, forcing republicans to take a vote on some of these issues. late tonight, senate minority leader chuck schumer announced that's not what democrats are going to do. in fact, they'll not offer up any amendments until they see chapter and verse of what republicans plan to offer in this so-called skinny repeal, which we expect to be a scaled-down version of obamacare repeal that they hope can get 50 republican votes, and then eventually get this bill to a conference committee. we don't know exactly how this will play out tomorrow and how republicans will handle this situation. but this is certainly a much different course of action than what we expected from democrats.
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>> the straight repeal that the republicans tried today, that failed. what comes next? >> what comes next is this final eight hours of debate that we expect sometime tomorrow, and then it's going to be almost a staring contest between republicans and democrats. will democrats begin the amendment process, offering up this variety of amendments that they have at their disposal, or will republicans finally come to the table with their skinny repeal. it's just conceptual at this point. we've not seen any written language connected to this proposal. we just heard what republican aides are planning. we don't even know if it's written yet, and perhaps we'll find that out sometime tomorrow. >> dana, the so-called skinny repeal, does that have the best chance to pass? >> yes. it doesn't mean it's going to pass. not even close. but it has the best chance, and the reason is because it doesn't
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make significant cuts to medicaid expansion to effectively give health to millions and millions of americans who couldn't afford health insurance before. that is the primary reason you see opposition from republican senators like susan collins of maine, lisa murkowski of alaska, and on and on and on. that is the reason it has the best chance. the problem for the republican leadership is that by getting those senators onboard, then you lose some of the conservatives who say, wait a minute, this isn't what i signed up for when i promised to repeal obamacare. there's so much of it that would still be in play. by far, the best chance. >> the question is what happens when it gets to the house. chairman of the house caucus said it's dead on arrival. >> this is the can situation, where they're trying to get
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something passed so they can get it over to the house, and go into conference, and go back to the table trying to hash this out again. because the sk-- it's not reall what conservatives want. that said, it will send -- if it did somehow pass in the house, it will send the insurance market into complete turmoil, because obamacare is a core without the mandate. >> jason, does it seem to you like the republicans are kicking the can down the road? is there a clear end game there? >> i think it's even worse, anderson. the republican in me would probably say we need to pass this skinny repeal, but i don't speak skinny very well. but we have to go and pass something, so then we can go to conference and come together, come up with some bill that will -- we can pass both houses. that's not what's going on here.
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we have a president who will sign a repeal of obamacare. we have a president who will sign a repeal and replace obamacare. the fact that we can't actually get a bill through the senate after all these senators ran for election, saying that they would repeal and replace obamacare is an absolute disgrace. first they told us we had to have the house. we give republicans the house. then they said we had to have the senate. then we give the republicans the senate. now we have the presidency. this is a big shell game by the big government republicans who will reduce the size of government. the way the subsidies, the way we're paying for health care and medicaid expansion, we can't afford it. it's distorting the markets. it's ruining our health care system. the fact that the republicans in the senate won't go with it is embarrassing. >> the republicans have been running on this for years and years. >> a lot of republicans agree with what jason is saying.
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having said that, i think jason would admit this, if the skinny obamacare repeal and replace bill would actually pass the senate and somehow miraculously get through the house, you bet, president trump would sign it. right, jason? >> again, let's assume they actually get something through. because the conservatives in the house are saying it's a nonstarter. >> absolutely. >> but again, what we have to have here is something that's fundamentally going to go and change the way that obamacare is ruining the health care system. we have to do something about the medicaid expansion. we have to change the way the subsidies if we want to help lower income americans to get something more of a tax credit. we can't go into that much detail right now. but the system as it's currently set up, just fundamentally won't work. premiums are going up. >> none of these republicans' plans address that. >> well, i think there are some of these plans that actually do help. the ted cruz amendment i think is probably the best step in the right direction.
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i think that will actually lower some premiums and lower some of the costs. i think that's the best step. but look, this whole shell game that we're seeing right now, it just -- as someone who worked so hard to elect a lot of these republicans, it's frustrating. the president launches another attack on jeff sessions today. i take pictures of sunrises, but with my back pain i couldn't sleep and get up in time. then i found aleve pm. aleve pm is the only one to combine a safe sleep aid plus the 12 hour pain relieving strength of aleve. i'm back. aleve pm for a better am.
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president trump is not backing down from his one-sided view on jeff sessions. he posted these two tweets this morning. why did a.g. sessions replace andrew mccabe who was in charge of the clinton investigation but got big dollars, $700,000 for
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his wife's political run for hillary clinton. drain the swamp. a big reversal from the campaign when he seemed grateful to get sessions' endorsement. after all, as we've seen loyalty, according to the president, is important to him. >> we could use some more loyalty. i love loyalty. loyalty can be a wonderful thing. loyalty is very important. i'm loyal, to a faulty might add. i'm a loyal person. loyal person. some of these people have like a 10% loyalty. meaning if they sneeze in the wrong direction they're gone. >> many now believe the president now wants sessions gone. joining me cnn contributor michael d'antonio, and jack, a political plagmagazine contribu. you think sessions should not be surprised by trump's behavior toward him. can you explain why? >> trump is a guy who has betrayed contractors, customers,
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vendors, and wives. his entire career is a long train of betrayals. and so why sessions should think he's different and special is a mystery. he should have been more aware of trump's history. >> michael, you wrote the book on trump. what does loyalty mean to trump? >> not very much. it flows in one direction, toward him. >> you have to be loyal to him. >> absolutely. everything's transactional. if you've done one thing wrong, if you don't demonstrate a reversal the next day, you're out. if i were to channel the president, what i would say about him is he's a back stabber. he's a fair-weather friend. he's a coward. this is a guy who won't stand by the people he's made a commitment to. and who have made a commitment to him. but this is nothing new about him. as jack said, he wasn't loyal to two wives. he's now on his third. i think he's doing pretty well
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there. but he's stiffed thousands of bond holders that invested in trump casinos, all these contractors, the people who signed up for trump university. one after another. political parties, he was in the reform party, then he was a republican, then he was a democrat, now he's a republican again. where is the loyalty here? i think it all runs in one direction. >> is this just politics, though? is anyone in politics when push comes to shove truly loyal? isn't everything based on self-interest or furthering a political agenda? >> well, in politics, there is a sense of loyalty. you stick with a party. you stick with commitments. and in the places where i've worked in albany and washington, d.c., the highest praise you can give to a politician is that that person is a straight shooter. yeah, sometimes people fall off the loyalty wagon. but in general you just don't see the kind of behavior, the kind of massive dishonesty and disloyalty we see with donald trump. >> it is fascinating, michael, i mean, in an interview just
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yesterday, or two days ago, it all runs together now, trump questioned sessions saying like it wasn't really so much a loyal thing, he basically saw the size of my crowd in alabama and got onboard. he just wanted to -- >> one other thing the president's not loyal to is the facts. sessions won 97% of the vote the last time he ran. he didn't need any coattails, and he didn't look at these crowds and say, well, i want some of that. >> he had not only a secure seat, he also had a seat as a senator. >> he had more of what donald trump wanted than what donald trump could give to him. and so the president very eagerly accepted sessions' endorsement, paraded him around the south, really, around the whole country. i would argue a lot of people voted for president trump because of the endorsement of jeff sessions. so now we see this playing out in congress with the former
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senator, now the attorney general, getting lots of support. >> michael, the irony of this, jeff sessions not only early on was the first senator to support trump, but ideologically more connected to the president than a lot of the people the president had around him. a lot of the people the president has around him now were campaign officials for other candidates. >> well, donald trump doesn't care about trumpism, he only cares about donald trump. the principles, the ideology, the policies, none of that matters to him. all that matters is his narrow, direct self-interest. that's what we're seeing with his treatment of jeff sessions, which from a policy standpoint doesn't make any sense at all. >> michael, appreciate you being with us, jack as well. she was a navy s.e.a.l. for 20 years and came out as transgender. we'll speak with kristen beck about the president's ban, next. . i'm the one clocking in... when you're clocking out. sensing your every move and automatically
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don't hold back... ...ask your dermatologist if cosentyx can help you find clear skin that lasts. we have no details from the white house about how the ban announced on twitter today will affect thousands of transgender military members who are currently serving. there has been no explanation. but we can speak to people who have served and served honorably, heroically. we've known kristin beck for a while now.
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she was member of the navy elite s.e.a.l. team earning a bronze star and a purple heart. she later came out as transgender. we did a documentary about her journey in 2014. here is a quick clip. >> it's got to be so sad to think that for 20 years you have to -- that you have this incredible bond with these people you're fighting with. >> yes. >> and you want it to be the closest bond imaginable. and yet you can't really let yourself be yourself. >> it's definitely tough. and when you say, it's strength and honor, that's one of the ones we do, when we shake hands, we shake hands and we say "strength and honor." that's still what i gave true. i gave true brotherhood. i did my best. 150% all the time. and i gave strength and honor. and my full brotherhood to every military person i ever worked with. >> i spoke with kristin beck just before airtime tonight. >> kristin, the white house
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press secretary was repeatedly asked what will happen to those transgender members currently serving, will they be forced out, and she couldn't answer that question. i know you have transgender friends currently serving. what are they saying? do they know what's going to happen? >> i don't think anyone knows what's going to happen. you keep seeing all the heads of staff, every staffer, every branch in the military are totally blindsided. this is unusual for such a major policy shift. >> what is the impact, do you think, for those service members who are transgender, who are serving and have been serving honorably? >> just like you've said just then, they've been serving honorably. they've been in war zones, back and forth a few times, a few of them. they're my friends. those people serving on the front lines of american freedom and liberty. now they're going to be told they're going to be rejected and unworthy to serve? it's a huge slap in the face. they have contracts. there's going to be a lot of repercussions. you think it's expensive to pay for a few things for those individuals? this will get real expensive,
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real fast. >> the president tweeted, the military, quote, not be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and the disruption that transgender in the military would entail. what do you think taking transgender military members of out of the service look like? you talk about disruption, to use the president's word. >> you used the exact word. it's disruption. i have one particular friend who is in the army. she speaks farsi, arabic and about five other languages. she's been in the war zone a couple of times, back and forth. she's immensely capable. how will you replace that person? all that experience and all those language skills? i can give you dozens of dozens of accounts of people with that kind of experience. if you had me right now serving in the military, you can't replace a senior chief. you can't replace all that experience. it's a very difficult replacement. so you're talking about some huge disruptions. >> the president, according to the white house press secretary, that it erodes military
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readiness and unit cohesion. that's a quote. i wonder your reaction to that. that's an argument that's been made, frankly, for, you know, whether or not to have african-americans serving in the military, and whether to have openly gay people serving in the military, gay and lesbian people. does it affect unit cohesion? >> you brought up the exact points. this is the 1950s, going back to segregation, you're going to the don't ask, don't tell era. i mean nothing ever happened. when we integrated the military and everything was better, that diversity makes us stronger. that diversity is what we need. it's same thing. these are excuses. this is some kind of -- something's going on. it has nothing to do with unit cohesion, readiness, or their capability. it's nothing to do with that. >> undoubtedly there are members of the military who are not comfortable having transgendered individuals serving with them. when you were serving, you weren't open to your fellow s.e.a.l.s. what do you say to those who
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say, well, look, if some members of the military are upset about it, then it is going to affect cohesion? >> that's the thing that they're overlooking, what is really at that lowest level, at that company or platoon level? once you start serving with folks, if you sit around me for a couple of hours, let's go out on the ranch, we'll do some shooting, you'll find i'm the same person. they're basing their data, they're basing their emotions on misinformation. they're basing their emotions on a fantasy of a person in a pink boa. that's one picture of transgender. but transgender is also me. transgender is this picture. don't base all your data on one thing. i'm transgender. i'm capable to serve. i can serve right now. and i would do it with great capabilities that would surprise you. they're giving up a lot. it's a catastrophe. >> kristin beck, i appreciate your time, thank you. >> thank you, anderson.
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as is so often the case in the trump presidency, today's story was told in tweets. there were some similarities in this morning's tweet storm and another attack on attorney general jeff sessions, for instance. we'll talk about that throughout the hour. but there was one big difference. a policy announcement that transgender people would be banned from serving in the military. no public announcement, no explanation as to how it will affect currently serving troops. just three tweets and nothing but the tweets. jeff zeleny is at the white house with the latest. what do we know about this ban other than what was tweeted?