tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN August 27, 2018 11:00am-12:00pm PDT
a comprehensive background check law passed. >> senator nelson, thanks so much for joining us. >> thanks, wolf. a final note on senator mccain. i interviewed him on many occasions over the past 30 years. i can testify that he didn't always like the tough questions, occasionally he would jump on me. but he was very, very generous with his time. and usually very nice. still, as our viewers know he never minced any words with those he totally disagreed with on some substantive national security issues such as the u.s. involvement in iraq and syria for example. senator mccain always appreciated the critical role that a free press plays in a democracy and for that and for so much more i will always be grateful. john mccain was a genuine american hero a great american. my deepest condolences to his loving family and his friends. may he rest in peace.
♪ hi there i'm brooke baldwin. you are watching cnn. thank you for being with me on this monday afternoon here as the nation pauses to remember and to pay tribute to senator john mccain, who died saturday after a long battle with brain cancer. just moments ago, his former campaign manager read allowed a letter from the political dynamo known as statesman, patriot, and maverick. i just want to play this for you. you listen to this. this is the final public words of senator john mccain. >> these are john's final words. fellow americans, that association has meant more to me than any other. i lived and died a proud american. we are citizens the world's
greatest republic a nation of ideals, not blood and soil. we are blessed and are a blessing to humanity when we uphold and advance those ideals at home and in the world. but we have always had so much more in common with each other than in disagreement. if only we remember that and give each other the benefit of the presumption that we all love our country, we will get through these challenging times. we will come through them stronger than before. we always do. farewell, fellow americans. god bless you. and god bless america. >> wow. his final words. with me now paul cain columnist from the "washington post." my goodness, rick davis
struggling to get through that, paul. i jotted down the note from the late senator. we have so much more in common with one another -- it is a resonant sentiment that really rings true today. >> yeah. that was the thing about mccain. he would always say that a fight not joined was a fight not enjoyed. he loved the spirit of the battle. but he really, really tried to focus on finding common ground. and at least having real friendships and bonds. you know, some of his best friends were republicans. and a lot of his best friends were democrats, from people like john kerry, who he originally had a bitter bitter fight with over the vietnam war, to former vice president joe biden who he served in the senate with, and the late ted kennedy, who my gosh they died on the same day nine years apart. mccain always wanted to find that common thread to keep the place running to keep the senate
functions. >> he was of course you know, a father and a husband, and a prisoner of war. but as a senator, you are right, paul, that mccain first fell in love with congress when he was in the navy back in the late '70s. tell me about what he saw, just even as a young officer. >> sure. you know, after he was freed from vietnam, he came back. he did a couple of different jobs. finally, they put him in the liaison office for the navy where he worked essentially in the capitol interacting with senators. that's where he met these legends, the joe bidens, and ted kennedys, pat moynihan, and phil graham eventually. that's where he really caught the political bug. he saw the power that these folks had and the way they could impact policy and he was enthralled by it. in 1981 he left the navy which was a pretty rebellious thing to do for the son and grandson of navy admirals. but he really decided that that was where he was going to cut
his teeth. and that was the moment that really sort of changed his life and changed his arc away from at that life long sailer to a maverick senator/patriot/hero. >> you mentioned the former vice president, joe biden, tell me the last time you saw senator mccain and anything that was exchanged there. >> yeah, there was an event in philadelphia at the constitution center where joe biden presented mccain on a cold monday night the liberty medal that's given out up there every year. and mccain became emotional after biden introduced him. two days later i saw hmm just off the senate floor and i had this exchange where i said gosh you looked like you were getting emotional up there on stage. and mccain spent a minute or two just telling the story of how he met young beau biden, the future vice president's son, after biden had come to the senate in the worst possible way, his wife
and daughter dying in a crash, and then trying to raise these two young sons by himself. >> yep. >> and beau would go on to serve honorably in the military and go to iraq and mccain would see him in iraq and then mccain just starting growing emotional thinking about it all. and there is beau byte biden and mccain, who both died of the same brain cancer. he grew emotional, stopped talking, got in the elevator and left. >> just hearing all of these stories -- what a way to honor him. paul cain thank you so much for being with me today. you know, the nation will spend this entire week paying tribute to senator john mccain, a survivor of torture. mccain couldn't actually raise his arms because of the wounds he suffered as a prisoner of war. but for decades he excelled at reaching across the aisle even in these times the most difficult period in modern political history.
and the white house stands glaringly out of line with with a nation in mourning. today look at this, the white house flag is flying at full staff when it was at half staff just yesterday. it's the capitol building flag today also flies at half staff. plus just a shorttime ago at his first appearance before cameras today the president of the united states failed to mention anything about the passing of john sydney mccain. >> mr. president, any thoughts on john mccain. >> thank you. >> any thoughts on john mccain, sir? >> we have more tape. this was moments ago. >> is john mccain a hero. >> let's g. keep moving. let's g. we are finished.
people, let's go. we are finished. >> thank you very much. >> nothing. nothing. cnn white house correspondent abbey philip is with me now. i almost -- i don't have words. obviously, the president doesn't either. >> apparently, brooke. for the third time, just today alone, president trump has declined three opportunities, three separate times, declined to answer questions from reporters about john mccain. he declined to give any statements at all. so far, brooke, it's really important to note that president trump has actually not said anything positive about mccain himself. he offered sympathy to mccain's family in that tweet a two-sentence tweet sent over the weekend from his twitter account but no words of praise about mccain himself, no words about his decades of service in the united states senate, about his service to the country in the
military. the president has as you pointed out remained silent. it's not clear why that is but except for the fact that president trump has held onto what appears to be a long standing grudge against mccain that dates back many years including at the campaign when he claimed that mccain wasn't a war hero because he was captured during the vietnam war. given the opportunity to put that aside the white house still hasn't. the white house refused to answer questions why the flags at the white house remain at full staff despite what we know to be a letter sent from democrats and republicans in congress asking for the flags to be lowered until mccain is laid to rest. that request hasn't been answered. no requests about the explanation has been answered by sarah sanders or any of the officials behind me. so far, we are hear from our sources that the first lady, melania trump is not expected to
attend the funeral services. she did attend on president's behalf when barbara bush died earlier this year. no plans on her plan whether or not to attend. it's not clear how the white house is dealing with this. this is clearly a moment when the country is mourning someone who is widely regarded to be an american hero, and the president refuses to say one positive word, brooke. >> abbey, thank you. let's stay on this. because this is important to talk about. with me now, cnn special conedent jamie engle. and chris cillizza. to the both of you, just -- i saw the flag pictures this morning from the white house but to watch the president with the president of kenya twice, you know, not saying anything about this hero, this lion of a man -- it's despicable. it's despicable.
chris? jamie. >> i just -- it's clear that john mccain gets under donald trump's skin. but this is going to be a very long week for donald trump. he is going to hear us talk about john mccain's legacy, his heroism. it's unimaginable that at this point, as a republican lawmaker said to me yesterday, i'm not surprised, but couldn't he say something? >> something. >> something. and he just won't. the other thing that i am sure he is stewing about is that two other presidents are invited to the funeral. not just invited but -- >> eulogizing. >> giving eulogies. right? former president bush. former president obama. the two people who beat john
mccain to get to the white house have been asked to give eulogies, and donald trump not only not going, he was not invited. john mccain made it very clear he did not want him there. this is donald trump's response. >> chris? >> to quote chris cuomo this is the classic example of putting the me before the we. donald trump has shown on a number of occasions -- jamie is right, it's sort of a i'm not surprised and yet he has shown on a number of occasions he does not view the presidency as a perch by which to show moral leadership in any meaningful way, by which to take the high road. he takes the low road. on many occasions. this is just one of them. that's a change and a break from the presidents in the past. the people who have held that office before, broadly speaking,
they didn't do this 100% of the time. they weren't always successful in it but they viewed themselves as an exemplar of what america could be, what we should be. donald trump doesn't do that. the both sidism in charlottesville, the picking of fights with the nfl, the playing at racism and racialized language for his own political benefit. this, the inability to get beyond a grudge. and i will note beyond a grudge that donald trump is the one who made the vast majority of the barbs here. john mccain largely held off, not wanting to make this about john mccain versus donald trump. he responded broadly speaking saying i think he discredits people i've served when he talks like this. this is donald trump making it about donald trump, which, again, isn't surprising, because that's what he does. yet it is shocking in its way. >> like jamie said it's going to
be a mighty long week for the president because we are not going to be talking about him. and to close the subject on the first lady. when barbara bush died marshall did attend. her husband wasn't there. this is different bus john mccain disinvited trump from any of these memorial opportunities. do you think -- apparently jamie she is not expected to attend any of them. >> right. >> does that leave wiggle room? >> i don't think she's going to go but the white house has not confirmed this on the record. we have been told, my colleague kate bennett, that she is not expected to attend. i don't think that that's going to change. i think what's interesting here to think about is perhaps she knows this -- she breaks with her husband. she we her break with her husband. her tweet about john mccain was very different from her husband's tweet about john mccain. she saluted the unanimous and
thanked him for his service. >> yeah. >> but she also knows when she breaks with her husband it makes headlines. >> true. >> i'm speculating here, she may have simply decided this was not one that she wanted to make headlines about. >> okay. jamie and chris, thank you both. >> thanks brooke. >> very much as we continue to honor the life of senator john mccain we will talk to someone who trained under him in the navy, ended up in the same prisoner of war camp with the late senator in vietnam. and we will talk about how he chooses to remember the late senator. and crisis in the catholic church. the pope refusing to answer calls for his resignation after accusations surface that pope francis was aware of sexual abuse by a prominent cardinal and did nothing. and today a breakthrough on trade. president trump announcing a new deal with mexico that leaves canada out of the deal so far, but certainly not without some awkward moments on the phone.
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i'm brooke baldwin. the u.s. and mexico reached a at the present timetive agreement on trade in this free wheeling news conference at the oval office, president trump had the mexican president there on speaker phone to announce the deal that would change parts of nafta. he also wants to get rid of the
name nafta. here he was. >> we are going to call it the united states/mexico trade treatment. we'll get rid of the name nafta. has a bad connotation. i will be terminating the existing deal and going into this deal. we will start negotiating with canada relatively soon. they want to start -- they want to negotiate very badly. but one way or the other we will have a deal with canada. >> the president has long called the '94 nafta deal between the u.s. mexico and canada a ripoff and quote the worst trade pact in history. let's discuss with paula newton and melody haum. what's in the deal? is it just the u.s. and mexico? >> it is just u.s. and mexico. keep in mind one of the things. one is the auto pact. for months and months and months, the united states and mexico couldn't find a solution
around what donald trump wanted. he wants more auto jobs in the united states. that means canadian workers have to make more money. that seems to be in this deal. in terms of the north american content the actual parts of a vehicle that actual three come to north america, that's come up to 75% now. all good. there is a sunset clause, which was a deal breaker for both mexico and canada. mexico at least has agreed to say look, okay, we have moved the -- they say we have moved the united states on this. they don't have to have -- the trump administration agreed to review the is upset clause every year but it won't automatically die. these are major issues that have been settled and it is significant but it is not a threeway deal. >> pena nieto who is outgoing was on the phone with trudeau. >> and trudeau said he is
willing to the agree to the erms of this deal if it's good for the middle class. mexico is not on board unless canada is involved as well. >> watching the president earlier, he seems obsessed with renaming it to the united states/mexico trade agreement which sounds more elegant than nafta. like he wanted to put a stamp on it it seems. is any of this do you think about the wall? >> i think the wall is a big factor here. obviously pena nieto and president trump have had acrimonious relationships up until this call. it was interesting to hear the rhetoric on this call. it was a departure of what the long standing talk to be. it reminds you there needs to be legislative approval of this deal. congress would need to sign off on that. >> say that again. >> congress needs to sign off on this, whether we want to call it
umta, the new acronym or nafta. and the new president of mexico takes office december 1st. if congress does not approve it before then then it could be back to square one. >> paula, as far as canada in all of this, the canadian foreign minister said she is encouraged by some of the conversations being had. it wasn't long ago that she said this after trump called canada a national security threat. >> what you are saying to us, and to all of urinato allies is that we somehow represent a national security threat to the united states i would say to all of canada's american friends, and there are so many, seriously? >> seriously, she says, do you think? >> that was june. it seems like forever ago. >> it has been acrimonious ever
since. we know that these are the president's negotiating tactics. everyone was caught offguard by him saying this isn't going to be nafta anymore. the canadian officials said yeah it sounds good. jared kushner, they were in close contact. it came to a surprise to everyone the way the oval office press conference i guess you would call it went forward. the bottom line is that krista freeland is on her way to washington. she will be at talks tomorrow morning. they are going to try to get this going as a three-way deal. but not only does the u.s. and canada have issues. but of course that means mexico and canada still have to work out their wishes as well. i'm not saying it is not possible. donald trump is saying this is the way you get things done. he is saying the chaos theory works. >> melody and carry listen thank you very much. coming up as we continue to
honor the life and legacy of senator john mccain, you will hear from someone who trained their him in in the naval academy and ended up in the same prisoner of war camp with him in vietnam. we will hear some john mccain stories up next. cancer. like christine bray. after battling ovarian cancer for several years, her test results revealed a drug therapy that targeted her tumor. today, christine's metastatic cancer is in remission. we're not just fighting cancer. we're outsmarting it. visit cancercenter.com. appointments available now. uhp. i didn't believe it. again. ♪ ooh, baby, do you know what that's worth? ♪ i want to believe it. [ claps hands ] ♪ ooh i'm not hearing the confidence. okay, hold the name your price tool. power of options based on your budget! and! ♪ we'll make heaven a place on earth ♪ yeah! oh, my angels!
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when did brian move back in? brian's back? he doesn't get my room. he's only going to be here for like a week. like a month, tops. oh boy. wi-fi fast enough for the whole family is simple, easy, awesome. in many cultures, young men would stay with their families until their 40's. ♪ >> i've had the good fortune to spend 60 years in service to this wondrous land of it's not been perfect service, to be sure, but i've tried to deserve the privilege as best i can, and i have been repaid a thousand times over, with adventures, with good company, with the
satisfaction of serving something more important than myself. >> senator john mccain reflecting on the great honor of serving this country. before he became political maverick and a presidential hopeful he was a lieutenant commander in the united states navy, serving in vietnam. it was october of 1967 when mccain was flying a bombing mission when his plane was shot down. and he then spent the next five and a half years as a prisoner of war, enduring torture, and solitary confinement at the hands of his captors. a french jushlist videotaped these first moments of his imprisonment which were recently feature in the ken burns documentary the vietnam war. >> i was on a flight over the city of hanoi. and i was bombing. and i was hit by either a missile or anti-aircraft fire. i'm not sure which. and the plane continued straight
down. i ejected and broke my leg and both arms. and went into a lake, parachuted into a lake. and i was picked up by some north vietnamese and taken to the hospital, where i almost died. >> my next guest served and lived through that horror alongside john mccain. he is retired navy fighter pilot captain charlie plum. captain plum, an honor sir. thank you for your service to this great country. i'm so sorry about the loss of your friends, your brother. but if i may just begin with, can you take me back to hand oi and that prison camp and when you saw mccain rolled in on that
stretcher, when did you realize that it was your old flight instructor? >> you know, i was in a cell in a camp we call the plantation. i could barely peek flew a crack in my door. and i could see the gate, the personnel gate in that prison camp. so i could see prisoners coming and going. this time a guy came in on a stretcher. two guards carrying a stretcher into the gate. all i could see was bloody rags on top of the stretcher. i had no idea who it was. they put this fellow in a cell two doors down from me in this prison camp and still, no idea who he was. every day i could see more bloody rags coming out of his cell. but no identity was known. everybody tried to get ahold of the guy because it was really -- it was vital that we communicate with each prisoner of war just to keep the guys' spirits up. the next day i saw a pair of shears, hand clippers coming
through the gate. and they took the clippers into cell three. that was always bad news. that meant guys were going to be cleaned up to see a delegation. frequently the guy had to be tortured to say that the treatment was good. they took the clippers in to the new guy. the next day, outside this cell, i see the biggest file of white hair. almost fluorescent looking hair. and we were all in our 20s and early 30s and very few prematurely gray guys. i thought to myself there is only one guy in the navy that's got hair like that. if it's true, my old flight instructor has been shot down, john mccain. >> that is how you knew, from his white hair. >> indeed, it was. >> at his request, he will be buried at the u.s. naval academy cemetery in annapolis right next
to a life long friend and one of his more well-known speeches came when he was there in annapolis delivering the commencement for the class of '93. let me play a portion of that, captain. >> soon after i became an involuntary guest of the democratic republic of vietnam my hosts tried to persuade me to make a tape recording in which i would denounce my country's cause. when i resisted they promised me that no one would know of my disloyalty. i responded, i would know. i would know. virtually all of my comrades who shared my situation responded in the same way. there may be times in your life when the consequences of your devotion to duty are so dire that you will be tempted to abandon it. there may be times when truly only you will know. but you will resist. i know you will.
>> captain, john mccain could be buried anywhere in the world. he chose annapolis. i know you are a u.s. naval academy graduate. can you tell me why is annapolis home to him, a place where i hear he didn't originally want to go. >> he comes from great naval traditions. his father and grandfather graduated from annapolis. i was in school with his younger brother joe. the transition and the ambiance and the tradition of the naval academy is the perfect place. >> what was he like as a flight instructor? was he pretty tough? >> he was tough. a guy did not want to have his final check ride with john mccain. i remember, the way we were flying these jets, the student was this the front seat. the instructor was in the back.
john mccain in the back seat could not reach the student. his arms around long enough. so he would take off his knee pad, a metal heavy knee pad and he would bang on your helmet. it was sort of a badge of honor to have a knew knicks from john mccain. but it was all -- it was all for our own good. he was intent on making us good fighter pilots. and i'm sure that a lot of guys survived because he was so tough on us. so we respected john mccain. >> sure. last question, captain. we know look ahead to this weekend former presidents george w. bush and president obama will be eulogizing the late senator. as for the current president, he tweeted once. and those fwlags at the white house they are not at half staff. and i want to play one clip from the white house. this was the president again not responding to questions about senator mccain. roll it. >> thank you.
>> any reaction to the american legion? anything to the american legion and the proclamation about john mccain. >> press, let's go. make your way out. >> thank you very much. >> let's go. >> nothing, cab tan plum. nothin -- captain plumb, what do you think john mccain would say about that. >> here's the irony of the whole thing. john mccain and donald trump are a lot alike. they are both outliers, both mavericks, they both buck the system. but they both love the country. i can guarantee that both of them love the country. the difference between jon john mccain and president trump is john was a humble man. they got into fights. but i so hoped for a long time that they could ever agree on their love for their country i'm
convinced they both do. >> captain charlie column, thank you, sir, so much. >> thanks brooke. >> he may be gone but his legacy will live on forever. here is john mccain in his own words reflecting on how he hopes to be remembered. >> i hope those who mourn my passing and even those who don't will celebrate as i celebrate a happy life lived in imperfect service to a country made of ideals whose continued success is the hope of the worlds. and i wish all of you great adventures, good company, and lives as lucky as mine. why did i want a crest 3d white smile? dinner date...meeting his parents dinner date. so i used crest. crest 3d white removes... ...95% of surface stains in just 3 days...
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so you have, your headphones, chair, new laptop, 24/7 tech support. yep, thanks guys. i think he might need some support. yes. start them off right, with the school supplies they need at low prices all summer long. now save $150 on this dell notebook at office depot officemax. a book that you're ready to share with the world? get published now, call for your free publisher kit today! peep francis under mounting pressure to take accountability for the sex abuse scandal dogging the catholic church but he is refusing to respond to a former vatican official's call for him to resign. a former archbishop and vatican ambassador to the u.s. is demanding the pope step down.
vigano said in a statement it is because he told the pipe five years ago about alleged misconduct involving a former washington, d.c. cardinal. vigano goes on to say that the pope did nothing about it. when asked about the allegation and call to resign pope francis did say this, quote, i will not say a single word about this. i believe the statement speaks for itself and you have the journalisticable to make your own conclusions. it is an act of trust. the pope also said he may speak on the issue at a later date. paolo sandoval has been following this. talk the me about the history between the pope and the former archbishop. >> there is certainly a history here from this diplomat and the pope. two years ago the pope replaced this archbishop because he allegedly arranged a secret meeting between pope francis and kim davis. vigano is also a leader of a
conservative anti-francis faction within the catholic church. many have said that politics are certainly at play here, that they are at the base the claims made in the very lengthy statement. however, there is certainly increased pressure here on the catholic church, brooke. in this statement. vigano claims there are dozens of vatican officials, all the way up to the pope who egg forred and knew about the sex abuse allegations against cardinal theodore mccarrick. if you remember, he was removed from the ministry last month and forced the resign n. a statement the archbishop insists that he told the pontiff personally about the behavior of cardinal mccarrick. i want to read you a pouring of the letter i read through this morning. he writes, the pope learned about it on june 23rd, 2013, and continued to cover for him. pope francis must be the first to set a good example for cardinals and bishops who covered up mccarrick's abuses and resign along with all of them. you read, po of the statement
and response from pope francis here in which he says he will not say a single word but there are other people who are in this report who certainly have plenty of words to share with the world. not long ago the archbishop of washington, d.c.s are releasing a statement saying he categorically denies any allegations. also the cardinal of illinois releasing a statement of his own saying the innuendo and fearful ideology of the quote testimony serve to strengthen our conviction to move ahead. so, brooke, there are some, again, who say what is in this lengthy report -- or this statement rather, should be taken with a grape of salt. but there are others who say there are legit questions being raised here, including the heads of the u.s. conference of catholic bishop who is says
there are questions that need to be answered with facts. >> a lot of people are waiting for the pope to address this more so soolo stay on this. good to see you. coming this labor day a cnn special event. the television premiere of rbg as we look at the life of supreme court justice ruth bader jins ginsburg. today we will look at how the courtroom has become more include sieve for women. >> the courtroom was a boy's club. women had long been excluded from the jury pool n. 1961 the supreme court maintained this was done to protect them n. 1973, women were allowed to serve on juries in all states but it was voluntary. rbg successfully challenged the validity of voluntary jury duty in a case before an all male supreme court in the late 70s. she argued women as citizens
owed the courts their time, to. rbg was with aware that the judges she needed to convince were men. she stopped saying sex discrimination and substituted gender discrimination. there were female judges but very few. rbg was asked when will there be enough women on the supreme court. >> you know the answer when they are in line, of course. >> watch rbg on monday, september 3rd at 9:00 p.m. on cnn. why accept it from your allergy pills? flonase sensimist relieves your worst symptoms, including nasal congestion, which most pills don't. it helps block six key inflammatory substances. most pills block one. flonase sensimist.
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tournament in jacksonville, florida, killing two people, wounding nine more. the horrifying moment happening while the tournament streamed live around the world. those watching could hear the gunshots and the screams. >> it is going to be hard to get them on screen. this is a lot. >> it is not tough out today. [ gunfire ] >> oh! >> oh, [ bleep ], what did he shoot me with? oh! >> police were on the scenes within minutes of the shooting. the suspect took his own life. let's go to cnn's brian todd. brian, how are those who are wounded? do you know anything more about the motive? >> reporter: brooke we are getting new accounts this afternoon about a possible motive and new accounts just from witnesses and victims who were there about the moments
that the shooting consideroccur. two witnesses spoke to me and both of them described the shooter firing several rounds, reloading and then firing several more. alex dove under a table but took a bullet in the foot. he spoke to a possible motive of the shooter david katz. take a listen. >> he played against somebody and he lost and he was kind of upset about that. i'm guessing that had something else to do with it, too. he actually wore the same exact outfit he had on the day before. sunglasses and same exact thing on and he came back, with that one look, kinds of just off, like something was going to happen eventually. >> reporter: and the man who alex says that shooter lost to was eli clayton one of the deceased victims in this attack. that speaks to a possible motive for this, brooke. the other witness, nick talked about how intense the games are that the competitive fire does flow in these events a lot of trash talking goes on. again, this shooter, david katz,
had lost recently, possibly to one of the deceased victims, eli clay clayton and that could have been a motive. he propertiedly left the building and came backfiring. witnesses also say there was basically no security, no armed guards or anyone checking for possible weapons. we checked that with ea sports and one of the owners of the jacksonville landing. we have not heard back on those accounts, brooke. >> brian, thank. coming up, he was more unanimous a politician, an american hero. he was above all, a family man. we'll hear from someone who worked alongside the late senator john mccain for 25 years. what he will remember most about mccain next.
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top of the hour. you are watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. two days after his death, senator john mccain's final words have now been released to quote the association he treasured the most, his fellow americans. just a short time ago, his former campaign manager read a letter from the war hero, presidential nominee, father of seven. he died saturday from brain cancer at the age of 81. they are words of pride, power, and also the belief of a promise of better days ahead. >> these are john's words. my fellow americans whom i have gratefully served for 60 years
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