tv CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin CNN October 1, 2019 11:00am-12:01pm PDT
you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. thank you for being with me. the story today in washington the congressional recess seems to be code for anything but a break as this impeachment inquiry launched by democrats inten phis along with pushback from the trump white house. now two top officials, mike pompeo and william barr, the latest high-profile names entangled in president trump's attempts to get foreign governments to act on his behalf. today secretary pompeo is taking aim as democrats who want to depose his staff in the wake of that july phone call where president trump repeatedly urged his ukrainian counterpart to investigate both joe biden and his son hunter and, again a reminder to everyone. there is no evidence of wrongdoing by either biden. pompeo tweet add letter he sent to the chairman of the house foreign affairs committee where
he wrote the depositions are an attempt p attempt to, his words, intimidate and bully state department officials adding that he would "prevent any attempts to do so." now, the secretary's defiance comes as sources tell cnn pompeo was actually listening in on the phone call and contrast that with a little over a week ago when pompeo claimed he hadn't even read the whistle-blower complaint about that conversation. and then there is bill barr. the nation's top law enforcement official who'll reportedly has been meeting with counterparts in australia and elsewhere in this bid to persuade several foreign governments to help discredit the mueller probe. all of that is happening as an important week plays out for house intel chairman adam schiffer and his committee, high-profile appearances including kurt volker, the former ukraine special envoy who quit the day after that whistle-blower complaint went public along with president trump's hand-picked intelligence
community inspector general. and we should note that the intelligence community ig's office issued a sharp rebuke to conspiracy theories that it was spouned e spawned by his allies that it's hearsay and laws were changed over the last year to allow secondhand information to be used. in a statement the ig debunked the all of that saying that the whistle-blower had direct knowledge of some of the alleged conduct and that is just as important secondhand knowledge is permitted as part of any complaint. just finally, the ig said no laws were changed to accommodate the report. turn now to cnn jessica schneider to talk about all the president's men. jessica, seems each new development in this ukraine firestorm engulfed yet another person in trump's inner orbit? >> reporter: and all seem to garner questions, brooke and
sharing center stage in this. start first with the attorney general. this is a separate issue from the ukraine issue, but we've learned now that ag barr did ask the president to request the help of several countries including australia in what is this ongoing and previously announced justice department review of the early stages of the russia investigation. now, doj officials say that this ask for foreign assistance, it is perfectly appropriate, but there are some who are expressing concerns that the attorney general is really pushing the president's agenda here. so now on to secretary of state mike pompeo. we now know that he was on that july 25th phone call where president trump pushed the president of ukraine to investigate the bidens according to a source familiar. but in an interview more than a week ago, the secretary of state indicated he knew nothing about that phone call. >> what do you know about those conversations? >> so you just gave me a report
about a whistle-blower complaint none of which i've seen. >> and secretary pompeo has been this morning seemingly defiant against the subpoena he was issued for ukraine-related documents from the house committee, saying they are bullying and intimidating state department officials they've also called for deposition. then to lindsey graham. lashing out also really echoing the president's intense questioning of the whistle-blower's knowledge and motives. >> here's my question. is this whistle-blower, whoever he or she may be, do they have any connection to the intelligence community? the old intelligence community that was corrupt as hell? >> on top of that, there are questions about the vice president, mike pence, and why he was suddenly pulled from previously scheduled trip back in may to attend the inauguration of the ukrainian president? was that intended as a signal to
ukraine to put more pressure on them? just two months before the president's phone call request for a favor. then finally, there's the president's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, top house democrats yesterday subpoenaed giuliani for documents related to his communications with ukrainians trying to dig up that dirt on the bidens and also any documents related to efforts by the president to press ukraine to interfere in the 2020 election. the democratic chairman warn if rudy giuliani does not comply, it will amount to obstruction. so, brooke, that is the swirl of questions and controversy around the president's closest confidants as the democrats now push full steam ahead with their impeachment inquiry. >> thank you so much for that. a conversation on all of this. andrew mccabe former fbi deputy director and a pleasure.
welcome back. we've got you, andy? there we go. just like the magic television. love it. my first question to you. you were one of "the" top officials who made sure the russia investigation was opened. you were at the top levels. they're investigating you and your colleagues. do you find bill barr's travels problematic? and in your decades with the agency ever heard of anything like this? >> no. sure haven't heard of anything like this. there's a, two primary questions that i think you have to ask here. first is, why is he doing this at all? the circumstances behind the opening of the russia case are not a mystery. i have testified under oath about them as early as december of 2017. jim comey made comments publicly, i have, we both wrote books that touched on those issues. so it's circumstances behind the case are widely known. they were entirely validated by the special counsel investigation. we now know that russia did try
to attack our elections and that the president did engage in numerous acts of potential obstructive conduct. so it raises that question of what are we doing here? the second question is -- >> yeah. >> -- not the propriety of the attorney general talking to foreign colleagues, because that happens all the time, but these are foreign colleagues who are very, very familiar with working with u.s. investigators and prosecutors. we cooperate with those folks and have on investigations and prosecutions for many, many years. so the question becomes, why does the attorney general feel it's necessary to personally interact with those folks and make this introduction to prosecutor durham and what is taking place in those conversations? what objectives is he actually advocating here or assistance. >> to add to your example, something we wondered also, is bill barr doing this for the sole purpose of pursuing trump's
conspiracies? it's worth reminding everyone that this is the guy who wrote that unsolicited memo to the doj just last year saying that he thought the mueller investigation was afatally misconceived" before nominated for the job? >> a great question, brooke. it's not one we know the answer to, but i think it is undeniable that the attorney general's personal involvement in this investigation, his prioritization of it, indicated by his own travel, is entirely consistent with the president's obsession of undermining the root cause and the impact of the russia investigation. so we can't say right now exactly why the attorney general's doing what he's doing, but we do know what he's doing is entirely consistent with the president's goals. >> and you think about how many times the president brought up the ag in that phone conversation with zelensky. barr has not recused himself at
this point. we know how well that went with jeff sessions. what would have to happen for him to do so and who would make him? >> well, there's nobody that can make the attorney general recuse himself from any matter. that is a decision that's entirely up to him. he usually would make a decision like that based upon his consulting with professional ethics professionals within the department of justice. but a very valid question there, brooke, to think, has he even considered doing so? has he requested that sort of guidance from the ethics professionals in the department, and if so, what sort of advice has he been given? there is no question at least in terms of the whistle-blower complaint that the attorney general is right square in the middle of that complaint as someone who would be certainly a relevant witness and someone who whose testimony would be essential getting to the bottom of those claims. >> i pointed this out off the top. a rare and public response the office of inspector general, the
icig, depunched multiple conspiracy theories spread by this president and his allies and the right wing media. we use this word "unprecedented" feels like on a daily basis. tell us, andy, seriously, how extraordinary is this? >> it is, running out of words here as well, brooke. it is truly extraordinary. the opinion or the statement that he released yesterday is remarkable for its candor and legal analysis to my estimation is bullet-proof and i would say it is another act of courage by this intelligence community inspector general who is a trump appointee and who, no doubt, knows that the things that he is saying, the positions he is taking be probably being looked upon very negatively by the president and his supporters in the administration. but, you know, when you go through that statement, he makes
it absolutely clear that it is not necessary for the complainant to come forward with a complaint based only on first-person information, but that the complainant in this case indicated that they had both firsthand information and secondhand information, and then he says in a very kind of deft way that his own analysis, preliminary review of the credibility of the complaint involved talking to people with firsthand knowledge. so i think what that tells us, brooke is that the icig is telegraphing here that there are witnesses that he spoke to with firsthand knowledge who confirmed the allegations in this complaint. and that is a -- that's a very substantial revelation. >> yes. your point being bullet-proof. great insight. andy mccabe thank you so much. good to have you on. >> thanks, brooke. as for whistle-blowers, weill they may be considered heroes by some they do not
always faire well after making such a sacrifice, a life-changing choice, we will talk to a former cia whistle-blower about the risks he took. and new questions today after a second potential whistle-blower comes forward. this is happening over the president's texts and we were just discussing all the conspiracy theories swirling. many of which spread by the president of the united states of america. so we break down the way trump takes bogus information and spins it into a counternarrative. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. we'll be right back. s. [beep] you should be mad your neighbor always wants to hang out. and you should be mad your smart fridge is unnecessarily complicated. but you're not mad, because you have e*trade which isn't complicated. their tools make trading quicker and simpler. so you can take on the markets with confidence. don't get mad. get e*trade and start trading today.
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we're back. you're watching cnn. i'm brooke baldwin. at the center of this impeachment investigation is the unnamed whistle-blower. the president made is quite clear he wants to know who it is and i remind you this country has federal laws in place to protect whistle-blowers particularsly from retaliation. my next guest know what's it's like to make the choice to come forward. back in 1994 former cia analyst patrick eddington and his wife found documents they say proved american soldiers were exposed to iraqi chemical weapons during the gulf war and tried to sound the alarm within the cia.
>> the attitude i took going into this was if saddam hussein had used chemical or biological agents against our forces and that had not been properly reported or dealt with during the war and after the war the cia had a responsible to raise those particular issues and assure they were addressed. >> patrick eddington is now a policy analyst at the cato institute. patrick, sure you're grateful, we went to the archives and found you from many years ago but we wanted to remind everyone what you did. you spent years trying to raise this issue within your department and decided to go public. how important for you and your wife to remain anonymous at first and how painstaking to ultimately come public? >> brooke, thanks for having me on and reminding me i haven't aged gracefully. >> yes, you have. >> the reality is whether talking about a daniel ellsworth with the pentagon papers or
thomas tamm with another program or the nsa five, trail blazer and thin thread or this particular individual. making a decision to do something like this is not something you do lightly. i didn't wake up one morning and say, you know what? i'll go public with what i feel about my particular employer. it's one of those things you have to think about carefully. you mentioned my wife and i appreciate it. my wife robin is my rock and has been for almost 30 years now we've been together. i will tell you that there were three destink pha destirngt des she says, no way we'll stop. go along with this we're no better than they are. that's the kind of woman i married. >> wow. >> i think that -- >> lucky you. >> well, yeah. no kidding. i think that's something i hope this particular person has in their life. i hope they have the kind of support network necessary to
sustain them through this ordeal. >> i want to talk about, i'm sure, what i know, some of you what you and your wife endured through all of this. back to your december '96 congressional hearing your complaints met with contempt and hostility because "we were giving them a message they didn't want to hear." fastford to today and this whistle-blower and the president continues to attack him or her as this person prepares to testify behind closed doors, what might be doing through this or her mind now? >> well, i'm sure that even as they were accumulating this data over the course of several months and if you look carefully at the nine-page memo prepared, this is something they spent a lot of time documenting. there's really no question in my mind. i have seen an individual over at the federal society who made the mistake of trying to write on whistle-blower issues and law issues without having the facts. i'm glad the icig came out yesterday and knocked that out. >> rebuke. >> exactly. you know, secondhand obviously
is not as good as directly participating in the events as myself or ellsberg on snowden for that matter or the others. the reality, this person to me at least is clearly almost certainly an intelligence community analyst. almost certainly somebody who is very meticulous in documenting things and that's what creates a problem here. going through their mind out in i'm sure is, how am i going to get through this? what's going to happen to me afterwards? reality unfortunately is even in a best-case scenario you'll always look at your life in a before and after kind of way and it won't be entirely the tame for this person no matter what happens. >> talk how you and your wife got through this. through this process you lost friends, were forced to sell your home. how did your choice for sacrifice change your life? >> obviously, willing to keep our mouth shut and go along with the nonsense happening back then i would have been retired two, three years ago, have a lot in a
retirement account and working for some beltway bandit so on, so forth. neither one of us are put together that way. we believe the oath we take and i've taken that five times in my life to uphold and preserve the constitution. we take it deadly seriously, still do. end of the day in the morning you get up and you have to look in the mirror and know you're an honest person. no way either of us could go along with this and not do that. a huge financial hit. never recoup that but peanuts compared to what this "desert storm" generation went through fop this day i get emails and letters from veterans from that war thanking us for what we did. for me, at least, that makes it all worth it. they knew we stood with them when their government basically stabbed them in the back. it's the kind of thing that no american should tolerate and however you might feel about president trump, certainly i'm no fan, we have a situation here that is absolutely unique as
your previous guest former deputy director of the fbi mr. mccabe noted. this person made allegations against the president of the united states, they appear to be a criminal conspiracy, and that's something i hope mr. schiff, to be blunt with you, is a newcomer to caring about whistle-blower issues. i hope he and his staff actually take these things seriously and run it to ground with a level of detail senator feinstein did with poor cher investigations or the church committee did with allegations about government spying 40 years ago. >> you have been excellent. patrick eddington, thank you for shedding light on what you and your wife went through. and 30 years married? what you said? >> it will be 29 this october, yes. assume she didn't kill me between now and then. >> happy anniversary and thank you for coming on. >> thank you. just in to us here at cnn, rudy giuliani has lawyered up hiring a former watergate prosecutor as his attorney. stand by.
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assistant special prosecutor during watergate is representing giuliani in these matters of the subpoenas from the three congressional committees that are investigating impeachment of the president. the "new york times" first reporting this. giuliani has not said whether or not he's going to comply with those requests. when i asked jon sale whether or not he's made a decision on that he told me i really have to study it. heaps just started working on this. that question is still out there, brooke. >> thank you. thank you for the update on rudy giuliani. top white house officials growing frustrated with president trump, because he will not give up his debunk conspiracy theory that russia, not ukraine, interfered with the election. it's snowballed into a controversy that could get him impeached. it's not his first dive into wild conspiracy theories.
and chris clis omes in here. >> yes. >> particularly his side of social media microphone, brooke, it's hard, as we fact check, doing it lately greatly, it's hard to beat it back. let's just -- remember first of all donald trump's entire candidacy founded on a conspiracy theory that barack obama was born outside the united states. not true. obviously, remember, he won the election, 3 million tore 5 million people voted illegally. barack obama put a wire tabb ta inside trump tower during the election. hillary clinton emails hidden somewhere people don't know about and most recent, bidens have done something corrupt in the ukraine which all independent fact checking says nothing is there. how does he do this? how does he get it into the mainstream? okay. baseless claim.
use the ukrainian example because it's most recent. something efficiency going on with joe and hunter biden. he got $50,000 a month. then, repeat, repeat, repeat. lots and lots of tweets. lots and lots of surrogates saying it. so it churns out. we have to fact check it and debunk, by "we" broadly the media debunk it saying actually independent fact checkers says there nothing here. yes, hunter biden on this board but the prosecutor wasn't fired because joe biden was trying to protect his son. debunked. he says, fake news. doubles down. put doubles, triples, quadruples down. that's what he does. keep doing. the roy cohn thing one of donald trump's mentors and advisers to joe mccarthy during the red scare. roy cohen hold him never say you're sorry or regret anything because that is a sign of weakness. he basically says, well, i was right. why would i apologize?
add here, he demands the other people, in fact, media should apologize to me. right? and then, this is the part that's really, really depressing, brooke. it's too late. because by the time we have walked through this cycle, doesn't take long. 24, 48 hours, even after he makes the claim, repeats the claim, the claim is repeatedly debunked he dibbles down on it, refuses to apologize we get to this point where it's now in the culture. my in-laws who don't follow politics that closely will say things to me like, what's the deal with biden in ukraine? there it is. that's a victory for trump. because if you go into the ballot box and you think, i don't know if we got the whole story. that's a win for donald trump, because he has started it. remember, this is so important. he has started it with a baseless claim. >> yeah. >> remember, they say a lie traveled around the world before
the truth puts its pants on in the morning. that's this! that is this. donald trump thanks to his social media megaphone has exploited that time and time again and, remember, brooke. you know, it's october 1st of the off year. wait until october 1st 2020. things will get worse unfortunately. >> sure every time you talk to your in-laws, though, you give them -- >> i do. i say, look, i do these segments on television. i'll send tem to you. >> chris cillizza, thank you for that. anatomy of the trump conspiracy theories. president trump is spreading a warning this could lead to a civil war. speaking of. why a threat like this has to be taken very seriously. it's time for sleep numbers fall sale on the sleep number 360 smart bed.
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more breaking news this afternoon. chairman of three different committees up on xlil issued a statement in response to secretary of state mike pompeo's actions they were intimidating and bullying state department officials. show you the tweet here. just sent out this morning. go trastraight to manu raju. >> reporter: they are pushing back. this comes after lindsey said mike pompeo indicated five current and former state department officials, not feasible to be deposed by these congressional committees as part of this impeachment investigation is looking into
the ukraine situation, efforts to urge the government to investigate his political rival joe biden. right? pompeo saying it wouldn't happen and criticized democrats for moving forward and democrats issue as statement pushing back saying that, they said in this statement, any effort to intimidate witnesses or prevent them from talking with congress including state department employees is illegal, and will constitute evidence of obstruction of the impeachment inquiry. in response congress may infer from this obstruction that any withheld documents and testimony would reveal information that corroborates the whistle-blower complaint. what they are suggesting here in this statement is that efforts in their view to obstruct their investigation would essentially amount to what their saying obstructing congress, obstructing congress' investigation and democrats saying privately and pub lulicl could be an impeachable offense by this president.
if mike pompeo does not allow the officials to come forward and not deposed, that essentially will give more weight to their push for impeachment. also in this statement they call mike pompeo a "fact witness" reportedly he was on that phone call with the ukrainian president and the president of the united states about this, and so they want to hear from mike pompeo himself, but pompeo pushing back. democrats pushing back, and where this potentially goes could be an impeachment push. we'll see how democrats plan to respond. i tried to ask adam schiff about it moments ago he declined to comment. see what he has to say a little later. >> what about tomorrow? a scheduled deposition tomorrow? do we know if that state department official will show up? >> reporter: we don't know exactly yet at the moment. we've been trying to get the exact answer about whether or not that deposition will, in fact, happen. at the moment seems unlikely because the state department, mike pompeo saying it's not
feasible and pushing back. we're not expecting it to, but we'll see. a lot can change as you know in a matter of minutes up here. >> it can. manu, thank you very much up on capitol hill this afternoon. meantime, a u.s. senator, one of the president's biggest defenders. this was not always the case. what changed for lindsey graham? plus, word of a potential second whistle-blower and this time allegations of misconduct involving the president's taxes. we'll be right bag. back. saturdays happen.
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baptist minister and fox news warning a of a civil war-like fracture from which our country will never heal. associate research scholar of columbia university and author of "messengers of the right conservative media and transformation of american government" and wrote a piece "why it's so scary when trump tweets about civil war." thank you for being with me. why is it so scary? >> it's so scary because that language of civil war is something that militia groups, white power groups hear as permission to actually engage in more vile. something we should be really concerned about. presidents don't normally encourage this kind of activity but we already know from the oath keeper's twitter profile one of the major militias in the united states they hear this as something that says, hey, it's time for us to pick up arms and start fighting back. >> kamala harris obviously, so
many listened to what he said and saw the tweets and kamala harris says he crossed a line with this tweet on monday and there should be consequences. take a listen. >> his twitter account should be suspended. i think there is plenty of now evidence to suggest that he is irresponsible with his words in a way that could result in harm to other people and so the privilege of using those words in that way should probably be taken from him. >> now, twitter is not going to suspend or ban the president of the united states, but what does it say that we are at this point where a sitting u.s. senator is saying this about the president of the united states? >> i think it speaks to the real danger of his words. right? this isn't just a president using apocalyptic rhetoric. he's called for political violence over the past four years and that is something that senators in congress, party leaders should be standing up against, because it has potential and already has created violence in the united
states. >> in case you all watching forgot and you point it out in your piece, at rallies, "knock the crap our protesters." told police office, please, don't be too nice when looking to arrest his word was i believe "thugs." what he said right after the whistle-blower complaint went public. >> i want to know who's the person that gave the whistle-blower, who's the person who gave the whistle-blower the information? because that's close to a spy. you know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart? right? the spies and treason? we used to handle it a little differently than we do now. >> i mean in this climate, we so often talk about how people are almost numb to this, this rhetoric which we shouldn't be, but we've seen and heard so much of it. what will it take for this president to be held accountable for his language? >> so far he hasn't been held accountable. i don't imagine this is
something that will appear in articles of impeachment but it should. he has sworn an oath to protect the united states and here he is endei endangers specific people with his comments and that's a real danger. >> thank you for coming on. coming up, democrats accusing the secretary of state of intimidating witnesses at the state department to protect himself and this president in this whole whistle-blower scandal. why secretary povmpeo is just oe of the president's men engulfed in this impeachment firestorm. my husband never paid attention to his health,
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i think donald trump is a political car wreck. he's becoming a jackass at a time when he need to have a serious debate. i think he's appealing to the dark side of american politics. he is not offering solutions to hard, complicated problems. he is basically selling fear and prejudice. >> that is the same senator who would essentially become one of president trump's biggest defenders as he faces potential impeachment, but republican senator lindsey graham isn't just contradicting himself from the 2016 campaign days, he's also making a stunningly different argument than he did when in the house back in 1999 and voted to impeach president clinton. listen to him then and now. >> you don't even have to be convicted of a crime to lose
your job in this constitutional republic, because impeachment is not about punishment. impeachment is about cleansing the office. impeachment is about restoring honor and integrity to the office. >> the president is between a rock and hard place. thy he did the right thing from my point of view to impeach a president over a phone call like this would be insane. >> gloria borger, chief political analyst. the then and now, hypocrisy seens stunning. >> it is steunning and a complee turn around and you can trace it back at least in terms of donald trump to the brett kavanaugh fight. remember, lindsey graham came out and defended brett carve n.o.w. vociferously and seemed to change the tone on the
committee and almost single-handedly helped save the kavanaugh nomination, but make no mistake. this is a man who years ago spoke about restoring honor and integrity to the office as you showed in that clip and now he's defending donald trump's behavior and also claiming that the whistle-blower's charges are hearsay and we know they are not. >> right. interesting you point out kavanaugh. hard to believe just one year ago as of just a couple days ago. >> absolutely. >> one of graham's biggest arguments against this whistle-blower complaint you point out is hearsay's we know the transcript backs that out. and much of the key in evidence bill clinton's impeachment trial was from linda tripp, wait for it, was relaying information she heard from monica lewinsky. >> right. also, lindsey graham has said this is a setup. so going back to linda tripp, what was that? when she secretly tape recorded monica lewinsky pouring her
heart out to her night after night on these phone calls about bill clinton? the president of the united states. was that a setup? and was lindsey graham defending that? at that particular time? yes, he was. and so, you know, you can also make the point, and i will, that this is not hearsay. the inspector general was so upset about it that -- >> he rebuked. >> came out and rebuked all of those people who say it was a setup, and that you don't need firsthand information, and chuck grassley who's the champion of whistle-blowers came out today and said, you do not need firsthand information, and by the way, by the way, the inspector general says this person said that he or she had personal or direct knowledge of events or records involved. so that is direct information. so i have a hard time figuring out what lindsey graham is talking about. >> whether it is lindsey graham or former critic mike pompeo
does this prove many are really just motivated by self-survival? >> in politics? are you kidding? >> a straight face. >> say that's a given. lindsey graham is from south carolina, don't forget. and he has been a trump critic as you pointed out. he has been an ally of john mccain, who's no longer at his side leading him and he's going to be a trump promoter, because where he hails from is trump country and so i think there's a political danger from him in getting too far out and i think he would reject that. he would say that's wrong. i really believe this. but you know, in life we can rationalize anything and i think going from one extreme to the other is, is very difficult. now, he does disagree with trump, for example, on syria. he disagreed with him. disagreed with him on iran. there are still points of
contention, but don't forget, he's a hawk, and that is safe in south carolina. >> yeah, yeah. gloria, thank you very much. gloria borger in washington. >> sure. special coverage continues with "the lead" right now. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news -- welcome to a special edition of "the lead." the white house in crisis. i'm jake tapper in washington. we begin with breaking news in the politics lead. moments ago house democratic leaders fired back at secretary of state mike pompeo accused him of potential obstruction after pompeo claimed democrats were intimidating and bullying state department officials who the democrats plan to depose. pompeo tweeted "let me be clear. i will not tolerate such tactics and i will use all means at me deposal to intimidate dedicated professionals i am proud to lead and serve alongside the department of