tv CNN Tonight With Don Lemon CNN October 5, 2019 12:00am-1:00am PDT
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so protecting yourself isn't a one time job, it's an ongoing need. now is the time to make sure that you have the right plan in place. don't wait. - [announcer] norton 360 with lifelock. use promo code get25 to save 25% off your first year and get a free shredder with annual membership. call now to start your membership or visit lifelock.com/tv this is a special edition of cnn tonight. all the president's men and an in depth look at the impeachment inquiry into president donald trump. i'm don lemon.
we're going to begin with the breaking news. "the new york times" saying a second official is ready to file a whistle-blower complaint. that report coming hours after house democrats issued a subpoena to the white house for documents related to the ukraine scandal. separately, democrats sent a request today to mike pence, the vice president, for ukraine documents within the next ten days. we're learning more tonight about the extent of rudy giuliani's role. was he carrying out a shadow foreign policy on ukraine for the president. mike pompeo stonewalling the impeachment hearings failing to meet the house subpoena deadline to produce documents related to the ukraine. plus, attorney general william barr who was mentioned dozens of times. why does it seem like he is acting as a personal lawyer for the president? all of that with the president
insisting again today his ukraine call was on the up and up. >> it was a perfect call. there was nothing -- we handed that call out. we've handed the call out to people and they say, wow, this is incredible. we're very proud of that call. when i speak to a foreign leader, i speak in an appropriate manner. >> we're going to get into all of that in the hour ahead. breaking news. "the new york times" is reporting that a second official, a member of the intelligence community, is weighing whether to file a whistle-blower complaint and testify before congress about the president's dealings with ukraine. i want to bring in now my panel. timothy is the author of "impeachment in american history." . good evening to all of you. let's talk about this second potential whistle-blower here. it's supposedly an intel official with more direct information. this investigation is moving very fast.
what do you think the fallout is going to be? >> i think they're hoping for more whistle blowers adding to the credibility. in a way this is a very positive thing. american democracy is working. there are laws set up for whistle blowers. the house was able to pressure the president to release them. a lot of people are wondering what's going to happen now. this is all the way the system should work. >> this is a second official that came out and was alarmed by the president's dealings with ukraine. could that add more credibility, do you think, to what we already know? >> certainly can't hurt. look, i hope we're going to run into a whistle shortage in d.c. we're going to run out of whistles because it's not those two. we have the irs whistle-blower who has come forward and alleged interference with the mandatory aud audit. we don't know what that interference might be.
there is a promising from i guess an historical precedent. while many people know the old nixon line about people have the right to know about crooks, and i'm not a crook. look, this will probably lead to greater information -- if in fact the whistle-blower in the intel community comes forward, it may lead to more information. we may see information about trump's tax returns -- >> you're shaking your head. >> i'm agreeing -- >> in agreement, not against? >> no, the whole whistle-blower sis testimony was a product of watergate. people witnessed abuse of power by president nixon and didn't
know how to get the information out so they leaked it. this is a way for people to get the information out without losing their security clearance. they are patriots. so, indeed, the system is working. i expect more of these people to come forward because what we've seen is a tipping point. people are now ready to say enough is enough. i'm talking about within the government. i'm not saying among elected republicans. whether we reach that tipping point, i don't know. within the government it's clear that these patriots think we haven't. >> david, the president has admitted much of this in public already so, i mean, what more do you need? what happens if a second whistle blower comes forward here? >> we were talking about this earlier. i think it leads to a more credible process. that does endanger -- >> how? how is that? >> i will let you talk about
this. tim will say he thinks it's very important to have this go very slowly and be a fair process and possibly have some republicans back this up. i think the more whistle blowers there are, the better. michael atkinson is one of these public servants who said this is a credible whistle-blower point and there could be the tipping point of others to come together. the statement by mitt romney, this is to the president. i don't think we're near seeing a conviction in the senate. >> the whistle-blower complaint, there's a transcript of trump on the zelensky call. there's text messages and then there's a president on camera saying this. watch this. >> china should start an investigation into the bidens because what happened in china is just about as bad as what
happened with ukraine. >> i know. >> what's he talking about? adds a whole nother dimension or angle. is he just spinning? >> i think there's a couple of interesting things to pay attention to here. one is he's not only confessing to the crime that democrats are opening an impeachment inquiry for, which is enlisting with a foreign power. this was the actual commission of that crime on live tv. he is on the one hand claiming that nothing he did was improper. in fact, he didn't do anything at all. there was no quid pro quo and at the same time he's actually on live tv asking another foreign adversary to look into a political rival. i think the second thing to pay attention to here, it's not an accident that he's doing this in front of the cameras with the public watching.
i think he thinks it shields him, that his sort of flagrant behavior suggests -- >> i'm not hiding it. >> it's the covering up. it's the covering up that indicates something would be wrong, something is improper, something might be criminal. the mere fact that he's doing it publicly everything is above board. that's clearly wrong but i think that's what he's going for. >> don't forget, the people who are giving him advice, to the extent he takes advice, are all old enough to remember watergate. they're not thinking about the clinton impeachment. they're not. they're thinking about what brought down nixon and the american people thought nixon was smokey. what the president is doing is basically saying i don't think i did anything wrong. prove that i did anything wrong and that changes the whole debate. it frames it differently. so when democrats, and i hope some republicans say, this is wrong, this undermines the
national security, the president says, i don't think it's wrong. i approach it differently. i'm just a disrupter. it is a remarkable way of undermining not only norms but laws and the way we've done foreign policy since we've become a super power. he's done it himself. this man has actually changed the way we frame these questions. it is unbelievably corrosive for the nation. >> even with that, he changes the way and then you've got conservative media who's basically backing him up. do you think the dam is breaking? >> i've spoken to aides. they told me the president is damaged personally. they've told me that he has thighs personal flaws. he doesn't trust his own staff. he will not listen to people inside the trump organization, the white house, now he reaches outside. he believes in conspiracy
theories. he does not tell the truth. there are former aides say i believe in his agenda. they think he can't deliver because he does statements like that. he was confessing, you know, to an impeachable offense. instead of saying, i can shoot -- >> i am shooting someone right now on fifth avenue. >> that's the last word. thank you all. i appreciate it. more and more members of team trump feeling the heat of the impeachment inquiry. we'll take an in depth look of all the president's men starting with vice president mike pence. that's next. - in the last year, there were three victims
of cybercrime every second. when a criminal has your personal information, they can do all sorts of things in your name. criminals can use ransomware, spyware, or malware to gain access to information like your name, your birthday, and even your social security number. - [announcer] that's why norton and lifelock are now part of one company, providing an all in one membership for your cyber safety that gives you identify theft protection, device security, a vpn for online privacy, and more. and if you have an identity theft problem, we'll work to fix it with our million dollar protection package. - there are new cyber threats out there everyday, so protecting yourself isn't a one time job, it's an ongoing need. now is the time to make sure that you have the right plan in place. don't wait. - [announcer] norton 360 with lifelock. use promo code get25 to save 25% off your first year and get a free shredder with annual membership. call now to start your membership
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serious request but just another attempt by the do nothing democrats to call attention to their partisan impeachment. but like it or not, vice president pence is caught up in the impeachment inquiry. let's walk you through it. in may the president instructed vice president pence to cancel his planned travel to ukraine to attend president zelensky's inauguration on the 20th of may. then the president put a freeze on aid for aid. pence was told about the call the very next day and the transcript of the call was placed in his briefing book. then the president used pence to tell zelensky that aid was still being withheld because of corruption. let's discuss now with matt lewis and josh green, the author of "devil's bargain, steve bannon, donald trump and the nationalist uprising oumpt jo."
josh, you're first. trump and giuliani openly spoke and tweeted about wanting ukraine to investigate biden. his top aide was on the call and pence got a transcript of it. is it possible that pence really didn't know what was really going on here? >> i think given the situation, given the fact that he was briefed, given the fact that we know mike pence is a diligent politician, it is unbelievable to think that pence would go into this meeting unaware of what it was he was supposed to be doing. the idea that he wanted to push this investigation, whether it's of the bidens, whether it's of interference in the 2016 election, it's really hard to believe that pence could be in that kind of a situation, have aides who are listening in on this phone call, have the transcript in his briefcase and it somehow still be ignorant. i don't see how that's possible. >> matt, here's how pence described that meeting with zelensky that day after it
happened. >> specifically, number one, did you discuss joe biden at all during that meeting yesterday with the ukrainian president? number two, can you assure ukraine that the holdup of that money has absolutely nothing to do with efforts, including by rudy giuliani to try to dig up dirt on the biden family. >> as president trump had me make clear, we had great concerns about issues of corruption. too invest additional taxpayer dollars in ukraine the president wants to be assured that those vee sources are truly making their way to the kind of investments that will contribute to security and stability in ukraine. >> so that all sounds good, but the meaning of corruption to trump and giuliani meant two things. 2016 and the bide dense. -- bidens. >> look, i just don't think that donald trump is suddenly this champion of anti-corruption and
he really cares that much about it. it seems like the only time he does care about corruption is when it involves one of his political opponents. so i don't buy it. >> josh, there is this remarkable moment, from the 2016 vice presidential debate. here it is. >> we all need to know out there. this is basic stuff. foreign donors and certainly foreign governments cannot participate in the american political process. >> what happened to 2016, mike pence? >> well, donald trump got elected and made him vice president and i think pence along with everybody else in the republican party, just about everybody else, has bent themselves to trump's will. pence has become almost a punch line in some fidelity to trump, his willingness to praise trump and do his bidding. i was talking to a white house advisor today who said trump is a loyal soldier, but even given
all that pence has done, trump still remembers the one act of disloilt. that was after the ""access hollywood"" tape came out. pence put out a statement distancing himself from the president. except for that one example, pence has walked the trump line and stowed it. that easily could have been referring to discussions about joe biden or hunter biden and corruption. he didn't say he hadn't talked to him. all of the indications we've seen are pence was aware what he was doing, delivered that message to the ukrainian president. >> matt, i have 10, 15 seconds. do you think we're definitely going to see pence on the ticket in 2020? >> 80% likely. the more he's embroiled in this, the less likely that trump is removed because republicans, the one thing if there's any
enticement to getting rid of joe biden. >> not if he's involved. >> get nancy pelosi. >> you gave yourself -- >> that's a deal breaker. >> nikki hailey waiting in the wings. >> wow. that's what everyone is saying. thank you. we'll be right back. ( ♪ ) only tylenol® rapid release gels have laser drilled holes. they release medicine fast, for fast pain relief. tylenol®.
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the president's personal lawyer doing himself no favors with a bunch of wild and contradictory television interviews in just the past two weeks. >> did you take -- ask the ukraine to investigate joe biden? >> no. actually, i didn't. >> you never asked anything about hunter biden? you never asked anything about joe biden -- >> the only thing i asked about joe biden is to get to the bottom is how the gentleman who was appointed dismissed the case -- >> so you did ask ukraine to look into joe biden. >> of course i did. >> you just said you didn't. >> by the way -- >> so you know the -- >> shut up, moron. shut up. you don't know what you're talking about. you don't know what you're talking about, idiot. >> why are you the president's personal attorney? what is your personal mission? what's your mission? >> to disrupt the world. >> joining me now is josh rogan and bradley moss. good evening, gentlemen.
>> good evening. >> did you -- i saw your faces when he said that. why that reaction? >> you know, it's very rare that the person committing the corruption is so proud of it and says it so blatantly and so repeatedly on national television. what you have to remember about this whole scandal is that rudy giuliani has been doing it for months before any of us started talking about it, before the whistle-blower complaint, months before that. everybody in washington knew it, too. he gave his interview to the "new york times." we said he was meddling in investigation. he was tweeting insults to the oligarchs. when the whistle-blower complaint comes out, oh, my gosh, this is too much. >> i want to put this up so the audience can see it and you can see it. this is a look at the time line.
giuliani has been on a mission to prove his debunked story. about the bide dense in 2016 as far back as november of 2018. bradley, he is giving wild eyed tv interviews. contradicting himself about these investigations, getting mixed signals about cooperating. is he helping the democrats case for impeachment? >> i think he is the greatest thing the democrats could have ever hoped for when it comes as an advocate for impeachment. he's showing how much craziness underlay this entire endeavor. if you look at what's been are brought out, what we saw in those text messages. pretty much everything the whistle-blower set forth, the details about the phone call and also the activities by mr. giuliani and his interactions with state department. all of that has been validated
by and large on substance. sure there's little intricacies here and there that may not have been entirely 100% factually complete. >> that always happens. that's how it works. >> rudy giuliani is doing everything for himself. >> all of it is not going to match up word for word every time. and i think that's -- people are trying to point that out to punch holes in it. it's never going to match up 100%. >> i'm wondering if this whole thing, maybe i'm not even wondering it. i think most people believe this whole thing is of giuliani's doing. it was clear to me that despite the positive news and recommendations being conveyed by the official delegation about the new president, president trump had a negative view rooted on the u.s. in other paths to retain this negative view.
he's saying giuliani planted all of these in president trump's mind. i think there's a lot of truth in that. they always say the same exact thing. if you give him information that confirms his bad ideas, he'll believe it. you could give him information that contradicts his bad eideas. the president had a deep seeded 3w4re6, ukraine, you krien. >> he doesn't differentiate between which types of governments. and meanwhile several other people are trying to get into his head including senators, voelker, including i'm sure a lot of other officials. no, mr. president, none of that's true. we can't make policy based on that because that's crazy, making policy based on false
information. that's the heart of the problem. that's a problem even though -- when you have a problem, that's aye fact. >> look where that trust has gotten him. we're out of time. secretary of state mike pompeo stonewalling. what does it mean for the impeachment investigation? ly to severely active crohn's disease, stelara® works differently. studies showed relief and remission, with dosing every 8 weeks. stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections and cancer. some serious infections require hospitalization. before treatment, get tested for tb. tell your doctor if you have an infection or flu-like symptoms or sores, have had cancer, or develop new skin growths, or if anyone in your house needs or recently had a vaccine. alert your doctor of new or worsening problems, including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. these may be signs of a rare, potentially fatal brain condition. some serious allergic reactions and lung inflammation can occur.
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now the second of state, mike pompeo, failing tonight to meet a subpoena deadline for the house to pro tuesday ukraine-related documents. joining me to discuss this, susan glasser and sean turner. good evening to both of you. again, never a dull moment even on a friday. susan, the clock was ticking tonight and the secretary of state mike pompeo, he failed to meet that deadline for the documents. he and his department are right in the thick of this and the pressure is only going to increase. do you agree? >> well, that's right. i think that mike pompeo is a crucial figure in this and it's only beginning to be appreciated exactly what role he played. he clearly was aware of it and a key partner in essentially turning trump's private foreign policy converting that into the policy of the united states. in that sense i think, you know, telling the truth doesn't even
begin to refr it. ray dagel spent a week obfuscating it on the phone call between president trump and president zelensky of ukraine. we've learned from the text messages that he seems to be well apprised of what his two diplomats were. to essentially do trump's bidding and to launch an investigation as a coop -- we're going to find he was facilitating donald trump's plan with rudy giuliani as opposed to sticking up for his department and american diplomacy. >> mr. turner, despite pompeo's initial attempts to dodge this. he was on the call. the text messages mention him.
the committee chairman considered him a potential fact witness -- >> i think there's no doubt that he has to answer to this. that needs testifying. if i were mike pompeo, monday i'd go to work and call in my attorneys. i'd sit down and talk to them about the implications and contempt of congress. mike pompeo is a great example of the perils of meteor meteori. he's done that largely unzaited until reasonably. he has a fierce loyalty to the president. after he reluctantly admitted he was on the call he then very quickly translated to say that
the call was all about digging into corruption. so that's the first reason. the second reason is he has been able to dodge, kind of stay out of the spotlight and dodge bulle bullets. and until recently that's worked. you know, i think now he's kind of lost control of the narrative. he's going to be under a lot of scrutiny as this plays out. susan, i have some things to read for you. bill taylor texts, as i said on the phone, i think it's crazy to ask for help. then gordon soundland texts back hours later. bill, i believe what he writes -- bill, i believe you are incorrect about president trump's intentions. he is trying to evaluate whether
they have during the end of the campaign. i suggest we stop the back and forth. i recommend you give lisa kenn a call. who is lisa kenna? she works at the state department as the executive secretary in the office of the secretary or who is s? is that secretary pompeo? >> that is the secretary. that is how they refer to him. i found that gnat an indication. i'm not prelancing here. the secretary of state is well aware of what this policy is. if you in kiev have any questions -- >> there is a very big trump donor who's combative.
ukraine is not in the roll. he appears to be dictating playing the role of a boss in a way that suggests that perhaps he's the enforcer from trump world. political comments during this whole time period, i found these to be very interesting and indicative of the idea that pompeo was right in the middle of this. these guys weren't freelancing but he was part of the mission and, remember, second of payers. but by saying i'm just here executing. trump is the boss and i do what he says. almost regardless of what he says.
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look into the allegations against joe biden, trump suggested his counterpart work with someone in his administration to get to the bottom of it. that man is william barr. gentleman, i appreciate you joining me. harry, you first. it seems the attorney general is deeply involved here. trump asked ukraine to work with barr on investigating the bidens on that july call. the rough transcript shows that so why would the president volunteer barr for this? >> i think he sees barr and giuliani as his two main coppos and people he can trust. it's a terrible idea for trump and worse idea for barr. barr is already up river on this conspiracy theory of chasing down the genesis of the 2016 probe but now he's doing it in a kind of buddy movie way, bill and don enterprise around the globe. it's completely irregular and makes it politicized, whereas, it was supposed to be by the
book investigation by the connecticut u.s. attorney. >> barr did not recuse himself from the department of justice decision on the call with the ukraine president. the doj said that did not add up to a campaign finance violation. barr is mentioned. isn't that a violation? >> he's neck deep. as you point out, this went to the department of justice. they didn't do any investigation to say what the state department and diplomats that found all of these texts that look pretty incriminating on the quid pro quo discussion. the notion that they would deep six it gets the attorney general but a lot of people in the justice department potentially in the soup here. i suspect as the committees start going through their investigative process, the same way they pulled on the strings of the state department and the diplomatic core and all of the skeletons started falling out of the attic, i think you're going
to see the same thing of the justice department. the plot will thicken as they go agency by agency. that's going to be part of building the case. yes, barr is neck deep and should be recused. >> harry, the washington poets h post has reported that barr has held meetings. what do you think that's all about? >> cannot tell you how strange that is. it is literally unprecedented. this is what you have agents for, that he has to go around the globe to do it. first of all, it totally demonstrates a kind of wild eyed commitment to the whole conspiracy theory of it and it gets him, again, in the thick with the president himself. what's it about? it's about trying to do the most pleasing thing possible to trump, which is to find some kind of dirt from a foreign country about the genesis of the probe. problem is, nothing there. nothing happened there.
the ag personally does the digging. >> go on. i was going to say, i completely agree with that. it's a decoy. focusing on barr and looking at the 2016 election is sort of the decoy. the democrats and people concerned need to make it clear. the focus of this issue is the president. the president asking a foreign leader to intervene in our election. the president does not get a pass on doing that just because he simply alleges that he thinks his opponent might be corrupt. you don't get a pass in that. that's a violation of the constitutional oath. when you condition the actions which the president seems to do on a foreign government's interfering during the investigation, you're probably invoking five or six major criminal statutes. you don't need a criminal statute for impeachment, a violation of your constitutional
duty is sufficient. there's been a lot of discussion on that. citing the statutes which the democrats will do, you'll see the judiciary committee starting who hold hearings, that will make a criminal case on what occurred, i think it's important, not legally but politically. if you are convincing the middle third, you do have to make a case here. prosecutors like harry could do this all day long, that there is criminal -- there is clear criminal violations. >> harry, i have to ask you before we go. rudy giuliani referring to barr as trump's government attorney earlier this week, what does that say? >> one thing said is it emphasizes with giuliani as his personal attorney. he's said he's not his personal attorney. giuliani is in the funkiest position. he's the most vulnerable. he has very little defenses for giving up his information. the other thing it says he's as
it were his roy coon. the guy that looks to protect trump rather than protect the presidency which of course is his real constitutional lookout. >> appreciate it. >> thanks, don. >> we'll be right back. our dail. so why treat your mouth any differently? listerine® completes the job by preventing plaque, early gum disease, and killing up to 99.9% of germs. try listerine® and for on-the-go, try listerine® ready! tabs™ about the colonial penn program. here to tell you if you're age 50 to 85 and looking to buy life insurance on a fixed budget, remember the three p's. what are the three p's? the three p's of life insurance on a fixed budget are price, price, and price. a price you can afford, a price that can't increase, and a price that fits your budget. i'm 65 and take medications. what's my price? you can get coverage for $9.95 a month. i just turned 80.
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in the city of chicago more than 2,000 people have been shot this year. tired of seeing news reports about the ongoing violence in her city, this week's cnn hero had an idea. what if she helped people regain a sense of community one block at a time? so she began in west englewood, one of chicago's most turbulent neighborhoods. meet robin carol. >> i started coming out to the community. the lots were all empty. the houses were getting boarded up. people were not coming outside. i stood on the corner and just asked anyone that walked by, are you interested in taking back your community? and everyone said, absolutely, yes. we are really brave space and get there. >> we will work through all of what is holding you back from becoming the person and
potential you have to be. >> to see how they transformed the block from surviving to thriving and to learn more about robin's incredible work, go to cnnheroes.com. one of my personal heroes, hero to so many others died today. miss diane carol. not only a hero but a legend that accomplished too many firsts. the first black woman to star in her own television series. she played julia, a widowed nurse with a young son. in the 1970s, the first black woman to win a tony for her role in the musical, noother person to receive this award. in the 1980s carol became the first black diva on tv as dominique devereaux on "dynasty"
where she gave joan collins a run for her money. >> let me ask you if that's supposed to be an implied threat of some sort because if it is, i am just as tough as you. maybe tougher. >> who the hell are you, anyway? >> who am i? you will find out very soon. very soon. >> you said this wasn't going to be a social evening so whatever it was, i enjoyed myself thoroughly. >> carol always fought for better roles and better representation for african-american actors and actresses and paved the way for people in hollywood like halle berry and andrea mcdonald who said today, diane carol walked, ran and flew so that i could soar behind her. the last time i saw miss carol was in 2009 p befr verily hill.
then she hugged me and drove away in his rin taj rolls royce. she was 84 years old. thanks for watching. our coverage continues. the investigation deepens. the white house is now under subpoena as house democrats widen their probe in the impeachment inquiry. demonstrators in hong kong rally in the street over a new rule outlining face masks. and later this hour, a new joker film sparks real life violence. we look into the criticism surrounding that. welcome to our viewers in the u.s. and around the world. i'm natalie allen. >> and i'm george howell from cnn world headquarters in atlanta.