deadliest wildfires in california have been blamed on downed power lines. the wildfire last year in paradise, california, that killed 85 people was blamed on downed power lines of pg & e. well, that's one way to prove you're an expert on corruption. "the lead" starts right now. breaking news today, two trump supporting rudy giuliani associates arrested. effort to dig up dirt over joe biden. does their allege crime here connect at all to the tangled web that could lead to impeachment? so far, president trump has been silent on his lawyer's associates being nabbed at the airport trying to skip the country. what might he say when he waubs to marine one this hour? and allowing turkey to run over u.s. allies in syria, iraq

war veteran and cnn contributor with a passion on the subject will join me this hour. welcome to "the lead." i'm jake tapper. we begin with the breaking news. two of rudy giuliani's so-called expert witnesses to find alleged corruption by trump's opponents were arrested today by the u.s. department of justice for, quote, corrupt behavior. led barnas. said his ukrainian operation is to help his client, the president. they were arrested at dulles airport last night holding one-way tickets out of the country, according to two u.s. officials, prompting prosecutors to today unseal this indictment that claims that they were funneling foreign money into u.s. elections, which is, of course, a crime. in may 2018 they funneled

$300,000 to america first action, the main pro-trump re-election super pac. they did so in a way that the vus department says was intend to, quote, evade the reporting requirements in federal election law. a white house visit for the now defendants soon followed. and just yesterday the two men were seen having lunch with rudy giuliani at the trump international hotel here in d.c., according to "the wall street journal." in another case, while raising $1,000 for a republican congressman, they asked the congressman in 2013 to help get rid of the u.s. ambassador to ukraine, quote, at the request of one or more ukrainian government officials. that ambassador is marie yovano yovano yovanovitch, who trump ultimately fired. she is schedule to appear before congress tomorrow. the removal of yov nachlt ovitch after complaints from allies,

including giuliani, that she was obstructing their efforts to dig up dirt on biden. prosecutors this afternoon said this investigation is not over. >> reporter: two associates of president trump's personal attorney, rudy giuliani, in court this afternoon, indicted on charges they made political donations to u.s. congressmen while pushing him to help get rid of the u.s. ambassador to ukraine on behalf of at least one ukrainian official, who wanted her gone. that's the same ambassador trump removed from ukraine this year, partially at the behest of rudy giuliani. charged with conspiracy, false statements and funneling foreign mon night u.s. elections. >> paragraphnas and fruman were arrested at dulles airport at 6:00 p.m. last night as they were about to board an international flight with one-way tickets. >> two men along with two others also indicted allegedly gave hundreds of thousands of dollars

to a trump-aligned super pac, laying out that the contributions were made to advance their personal financial interests and political interests of at least one ukrainian government official with whom they were working. that foreign money coming, in part, from an unnamed russian citizen, whose involvement they hid because of his russian roots and political paranoia about it. >> this investigation is about corrupt behavior, deliberate, law breaking. >> reporter: according to prosecutors, they pushed a former u.s. congressman, republican pete sessions, to help to get ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch fired. attempting to gain influence by raising $20,000 or more for a u.s. congressman and that parnas sought that congressman's assistance to remove that

ambassador to ukraine at least in part at the request of one or more ukrainian government officials. one key question is how these two men fit into the broader scope of the ukraine impeachment inquiry. today's indictment adding intrigue to what is already known, partisan from and work on giuliani to dig up dirt on joe biden, the same dirt trump brought up in his phone call with the ukrainian president. the same phone call where trump mentioned the ousted ambassador to ukraine, who they were trying to get them to fire because a ukrainian official asked them to. saying in a statement to cnn

neither the candidate nor the campaign have anything to do with the scheme these guys were involved in. and turns out prosecutors in new york had to act fast. we've learned that they did not intend to unseal this indictment today, but their hand was forced when those two men bought a one-way ticket to frankfurt, germany, en route to another location. they were both arrested at dulles airport last night. we learned in the past few minutes that they will both be held in virginia on $1 million bond. we learned they also plan to secure that bond by putting up their residence and business. if and when they are released, they will be confined to their homes with a gps monitor. they will be allowed to travel from their homes in southern florida to the southern district of new york where, of course, they are facing those criminal charges. jake? >> jessica, thank you so much. breaking news for you now. we've just learned that the energy secretary, rick perry, has been subpoenaed by the house

of representatives, for documents as part of this house impeachment inquiry. and if i can just read exactly what they are calling for, it says recently public reports have raised questions about any role you may have played in conveying or reinforcing the president's stark message to the ukrainian president, the chairman wrote. these reports have raised significant questions about your efforts to press ukrainian officials, to change the management structure at a ukrainian state-owned company to benefit individuals involved with rudy giuliani's push to get ukraine involved in our 2020 election. that's a lot to chew. these two men are accused of funneling this foreign money, $325,000 that they were trying to evade from detection. i don't know if that's foreign money but the $325,000 intended to evade election reporting

requirements. what's going on here? what are the feds doing? >> this looks like a pretty big investigation. they included charges. they did one count each. i think jessica's reporting that they had to act fast indicates to me that this was -- this is a live investigation. so the current charges are just one count of campaign finance, one count of conspiracy, one count of false statements, one count of falsifying records. the fact that they put those one counts on looks to me like there's a lot more beneath it and this is just the beginning. it looks to me like a complex investigation into foreign money, coming into a variety of federal and state electoral candidates and processes. >> we know these two individuals have been to the white house. we know that they've given hundreds of thousands of dollars to a pro-trump super pac and we know that they were pushing for president trump or for the u.s. government to do something that president trump ultimately did,

which was to fire the u.s. ambassador to ukraine. >> that's right. and, you know, i understand jay sekulowe's statement saying essentially this has nothing to do with the campaign, the white house, the president. these were the guys working alongside rudy giuliani, sending forth essentially this ukrainian misinformation campaign backed by russian businessmen and funneling it into the white house. ultimately that got the attention of president trump and he embraced that. the ambassador they wanted ousted from ukraine is recalled from her position. she's back. they're trying to interview her in front of the house impeachment committees, they're trying to set that up. these guys were able to get a lot of what they wanted by going through rudy giuliani and getting directly to the president. it is kind of stunning this has been carrying on and the levels they reached with this sort of operation. >> what's your reaction to this all? it's obviously unsettling to have people breaking the law, election law involved in this 2020 election.

>> it's very easy to look at this as a campaign finance story, but actually it's a russia story. that's a story that's been going on since well before 2016. these are soviet-born nationals who have figured out a way to infiltrate the campaign funding system, they were able to actively lobby to lift sanctions, congressman number one that congress wants to speak to. >> congressman pete sessions, he was defeated but trying to get his seat back. >> in office he was actively working on behalf, now we know, of russian interests. this underscores that. it didn't end with the mueller report. it didn't end in 2016. it's been an ongoing relationship with russia, russian officials and an ongoing counterinvestigation against the president we do not know about.

there's a lot more coming down the pike. >> there's a counterintelligence campaign, intelligence campaign going on by russia right now to change the narrative so it's ukraine that was responsible tore interfering in the 2016 election, even though every u.s. intelligence agency has said the opposite. these conspiracy theories, apparently, are going from some of these folks to rudy giuliani to the resolute desk. >> let's not make trump too much of a passive victim. ooh, people are giving him things. trump wanted the russians to intervene in 2016. he may not have coordinated and there was no crime perhaps. from his own phone call, president of the united states to the president of ukraine, dirt on a former vice president, possible opponent of his next year and i think trump was happy to get all kinds of help from various sources, foreign or otherwise. he welcomed putin's help and think it's terrible that the u.s. intelligence agencies

disbelieve putin. to the point that he's at the center of a campaign finance investigation campaign, finding dirt on americans campaign, it's pretty remarkable. this news that energy secretary rick perry is the latest to receive a subpoena for impeachment documents. we'll talk about that next. stay with us. ♪ a wealth of information. a wealth of perspective. ♪ a wealth of opportunities. that's the clarity you get from fidelity wealth management. straightforward advice, tailored recommendations, tax-efficient investing strategies, and a dedicated advisor to help you grow and protect your wealth. fidelity wealth management.

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we're back with the breaking news. energy secretary rick perry was just subpoenaed by the house intelligence committee chairman. manu raju is on the hill. what are you are learning? >> reporter: by october 18th these documents need to be turned over to the committee, relative to conversations he had with the president and rudy giuliani that led up to, that surrounded those meetings. a number of reports about what rick perry was up to. he said it was simply energy discussions that he was having with zelensky and ukrainian government, nothing to do with joe biden. democrats say this in their letter. these reports have raised significant questions about your efforts to press ukrainian

officials to change the management structure at a ukrainian state-owned energy company to benefit individuals involved with rudy giuliani's push to get ukrainian officials to interfere in our 2020 election. rick perry said that he would look into this, that was before the white house letter came out earlier this week, saying essentially that the administration would not comply whatsoever. the question is, what will they do next? a big question, jake, is what did he know about what rudy giuliani did? the president directed giuliani to talk, to deal with -- directed perry to talk to giuliani about his conversations with ukraine. gentlemanic? >> manu raju on capitol hill. let's chew overall of this. the allegation is starting to get dense and confusing. but the allegation is that there's a bunch of ukrainians in ukraine, and president trump, rudy giuliani and others are

pushing them to investigate joe biden, to get dirt. as rick perry was suggesting, that an energy company be restructured so as to help some of the people they're counting on to provide some of this dirt. would that be a crime? is that against the law? >> i have to think about whether or not that would be a crime. the question as to whether or not it's okay for u.s. government officials to be requesting foreign assistance, really, we can think about different statutory crimes, campaign violations, bribery, things in that realm. that seems extraneous. but the bigger issue is the constitutional issues, which is whether or not it's abuse of the executive authority to be requesting foreign assistance to assist in that campaign and whether or not rick perry now was in some way involved. if he knew he was involved, maybe he was being used in some way or whether he was actually

knowledgeable about what the bigger picture is. and i would just add this is really the dilemma that current executive branch officials are going to find themselves in. as the subpoenas start getting broader and broader, an issue to more and more people like the state department officials, they're going to have to decide if they're going to comply with the congressional demands for information in support of this impeachment committee or whether they're going to go along with the white house to stonewall every single request and subpoena that comes out. >> that's an amazing statement. people are not grasping the magnitude of the white house stonewall in my opinion. there are always disputes about certain documents that may be privileged. the fact that the mbs to the eu isn't supposed to talk about conversations and decisions he was clearly involved in, to congress. the idea that they're going to stop cabinet secretaries. it's one thing to have a white house staffer not talk about private conversations they had

t would help to clear up this complex tangle of things is to learn the facts. the democrats need to be very clear. they're not going to litigate this in the courts, dispute on the margins of these. if they can't get basic cooperation on things that are unquestionably in the past have been within congress' purview to investigate, they need to say that in itself is an impeachable offense. that's not rick perry's decision, mike pompeo's decision but trump himself saying no. >> we could find quote after quote after quote from house republicans during the obama years talking about the need for congress to conduct its oversight, whether it was then congressman mike pompeo, now secretary of state, saying that's what congress does. that's why hillary clinton testified for so many hours about the benghazi tragedy. >> who was the congressman

running that inquiry? >> trey gowdy. >> you have to be willing to arrest people for breaking the law. it's not necessarily breaking the law, a criminal act of what rick perry may have done or whether or not it's criminal what's happening with the ukraine. that's part of a congressional oversight, statutory authority f you deny a subpoena, you don't show up, that is denying, effectively, a court order. susan mcdougal, average citizen working close to the clintons was arrested and went to jail for three months for refusing to answer three questions. these are people responsible for the public trust and have been appointed and approved by the people asking them to show up. >> and that's true. if you are a democrat and you're out there and that's the argument you're making, you're losing. you can't constantly be arguing about this subpoena, that subpoena, in the weeds about rick perry, what he did or didn't do. the point of this moving over to impeachment is the president and his allies allegedly have taken

the u.s. government and said we're not taking the u.s. government and using it for domestic interests, we're using it for our personal interests, financial interest and those around us. that's why we've moved into impeachment territory. if they're stuck in this process fight day in, day out, the american public won't understand the sort of magazinefy tud. >> i agree with the process piece. that's the white house's messaging, there's no vote. they're the ones arguing this is a process problem. verz we know treason when we smell it. we know what's happening right now is not in the public trust. >> congress han oversight responsibility in the obama years and now in the trump years as well. i think we can all agree on that. will house lawmakers able to get the documents they wanted from these two men now that they've been arrested?

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in our politics lead now, southern district of new york has announced an indictment for

two of rudy giuliani's associates for digging up dirt on joe biden. preet baraha joins me now. these are the guys who are helping rudy giuliani, quote, unquote, investigate joe biden. what do you think these arrests are? >> pretty significant. any arrests are significant when the people involved may have information about other conduct that has been under inquiry for a while. the ukraine business, is that when you get arrested especially by the federal government you have motivation to cooperate, to flip. we talked about that a lot in the months leading up to michael cohen's plea, former lawyer to the president and depending what information he has and depending on these men, two of them are associates of giuliani in connection with the ukraine business.

but they have good information and they want to do themselves a favor, who knows what other information they have with respect to rudy giuliani or anyone else. there's no allegation i read in the indictment that connects the business they were doing with ukraine and giuliani directly to what they're charged with, which is basically campaign finance violations usie ining foreign d and the like. >> a congressman, not named in the indictment but we learned it's texas congressman pete sessions, that they would raise money for him and then, quote, sought congressman one's assistance in causing the u.s. government to remove or recall the u.s. ambassador to ukraine. we do know that president trump did essentially fire that u.s. ambassador to ukraine from that position. what do you make of what jay sekulow has to say? >> a couple of reactions. one, it's not just that donald

trump wanted to remove the ukraine ambassador. the other reporting is that he did it at the behest of rudy giuliani, who is the associate of these two men who got arrested. in favor of the congressman and others is that the indictment taerks clear to say, at least so far, that the schemes to engage in straw donors and campaign finance were done without the knowledge of the campaign. in other words without the knowledge of the candidates. these guys may be ra operating on their own, may be the case that rudy giuliani had knowledge. so far they're making it clear in their charging document that the candidate did not know. >> just subpoenaed documents from these two individuals, associates from rudy giuliani. one question i have is does the southern district of new york, indicting these two, hurt the ability of house democrats to conduct their impeachment inquiry? >> that may be a consequence. i've seen some people posting on

social media, suggesting that this was a way for somehow the justice department to prevent them from testifying and in some way impede the house committee proceeding. the facts, as i understand them, these gentlemen were on the way out of the country and arrested at dulles airport, which may account for the timing of this. doesn't sound like they'll be cooperating with the house inquiry anyway. as u.s. attorney a criminal matter took precedence no, disrespect to the other branch of government or congress. maybe there's a way to accommodate the house. generally speaking when people get indicted by the federal government they will plead the fifth with respect to any inquiries of them, including from the house. >> you sat down for your podcast with prominent conservative attorney and trump critic george conway. i want to take a listen to some of his comments on impeachment. take a listen. >> i mean, this was trash.

i mean, basically, the thrust of it is that there are some kind of constitutional obligations that the house has failed to meet that, therefore, render its impeachment inquiry illegitimate and unconstitutional. >> that's george conway's reaction to the white house letter written to nancy pelosi basically saying they're not going to cooperate at all with the impeachment inquiry. what did you think of conway's comments? >> he's exactly right. as i said, my reaction to the white house counsel's letter was not good either. i thought it was poorly written. his language was very strong. he called it trash, garbage and various other other sin synonym

what you throw out. they wrote this letter basically saying we're not going to play ball unless you do this other thing that's not required by the constitution. end of the day, nancy pelosi may decide there's a formal vote in the full house to decide the procedures by which you proceed. that's not necessary under the constitution or rules. it's happened before. maybe at the end of the day she'll do it. the excuse that they can't come forward is nonsense. >> conway and a group that he's part of, consisting of other conservative lawyers and officials, they laid out a legal argument on why they think an expedited impeachment is needed for trump. you tubing tauked about how impeachment and the president's pattern of behavior, in his view, is part of a diagnosis he has made of the president being a malignant na narcissist.

>> you can point to so many things, areas and ways in which he puts himself before the country. and not all of those things individually would amount to an impeachable offense but they do fit a pattern. >> since neither of us are physicians and george isn't either, but do you think an expedited inquiry is the best way for pelosi to do this? >> i'm going to give you an equivocal answer. it depends had an that means. there's attention in every investigation to wanting to do it quickly so a cloud is lifted or some accountability is had versus doing it in a thorough way so all the information is before the public. we thought a couple of weeks ago when all we were talking about ukraine and that phone call and segregation of that material on a server, maybe you could keep it narrow, streamline and get to

the bottom of it in a few weeks. every day there's new information emerging, turkey, dealing with china, and other whistle-blowers potentially coming forward. that makes it harder to have it go quickly. for purposes of impeachment, which is different from a normal federal prosecution, public sentiment matters. in some ways you want to have the public understanding in real time what's going on. they are backing hopefully what will eventually be a bipartisan vote. i think they should go quickly. i think when they're stalled, they should draft articles of impeachment that show they have been obstructed and draw adverse inferences but shouldn't go so quickly as to not let the public keep up. >> preet bharara, thank you so much. >> thanks for having me. breaking news on rudy giuliani. giuliani's financial dealings with these two associates who

were just arrested are under scrutiny by investigators. cnn's shimon prokupecz, what are you learning? >> that's right, jake. les parnes and fruman, the federal prosecutors southern district of new york according to law officials who have been briefed and cnn's evan perez have been told that specifically one of the things they are looking at is the financial dealings between these two individuals and rudy giuliani. of course, the ukraine matter in the mind of a lot of the federal investigators and prosecutors and they want to know what this relationship was about. perhaps they're looking at the money. who was funding some of this? was rudy giuliani in any way making money off of this?

financial dealings are one of the things that the fbi and prosecutors are looking at, as well as the overall relationship here, jake. >> shimon prokupecz, thank you very much. president trump suggests that the hard core isis fighters are someone else's problem. stay with us. we'll go right there. in the workforce that's waiting for them. since verizon innovative learning, students have hardware, connectivity, and quality curriculum. the jobs of tomorrow will involve technology. now students are truly hopeful for what they may achieve.

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death toll rising as turkey intensifies its attacks, killing civilians and kurdish forces who previously helped u.s. troops

fight isis. carissa ward was the first western journalist into syria. what does turkey say is its end goal? >> reporter: turkey says its end goal, jake, is to clear a large swath of territory, 200 miles wide, 18 1/2 moil miles deep into the country to completely clear it of kurdish fighters that they view as an existential threat. the second goal is to resettle the 3.6 million syrian refugees. as a result of the first two days of this operation, it is only more civilians who are getting displaced. some 60,000 forced from their homes already. that number expected to rise to hundreds of thousands in the coming days. and the real issue here, jake, for those civilians, is that they don't know where to go.

there is no place in northern syria that is a safe place for them to go. >> clarissa, you've been talking to people on the ground in northern syria, people who are not only afraid of what the turks are doing but who feel betrayed by the u.s. and president trump. >> reporter: there is a lot of anger, a rot of resentment and confusion. the minute they find out we're american journalists, they want to understand why it is, why would america betray us this way, why after so many kurdish fighters have laid down their lives on the front lines of the battle against isis would the u.s. now pull back special operations so officers from the border, essential therefore giving turkey cart blanch to carry out this operation. as an american journalist there's never an easy answer to

give these people why they aren't being supported after their fight for so many years. jake? >> please stay safe. thank you very much. our next guest is a republican congressman, taking a public stand against the president's troop withdrawal in syria. stay with us. so you focus only on what you want. okay, it's got screeners and watchlists. and you can even see how your predictions might affect the value of the stocks you're interested in. now this is what i'm talking about. yeah, it'll free up more time for your... uh, true crime shows? british baking competitions. hm. didn't peg you for a crumpet guy. focus on what matters to you with thinkorswim. ♪ thenot actors, people, who've got their eczema under control. with less eczema, you can show more skin. so roll up those sleeves. and help heal your skin from within with dupixent. dupixent is the first treatment of its kind that continuously treats moderate-to-severe eczema,

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we're back now with our "world lead." kurds taking the front lines sometimes themselves are left alone to combat turkey. i want to bring in an officer from the army reserve, one of the many republicans criticizing trump's move, congressman from ohio. there are a lot of viewers out there who probably don't understand why people, such as yourself, have such an emotional attachment to them, beyond the fact that they're u.s. allies. explain. >> well, you know, when you're in war, especially, you want to know who your friends are. that is something we learned firsthand in iraq. i didn't spend a lot of time with the kurds. i was mostly down in the main part of iraq. when i did go to the kurdish area, this is the only time i could walk through the streets

without armor, in uniform and people would come up and hug me. it's the only time in a year deployment that i actually ate at a restaurant. when i went up there, i was surprised. we had american universities there. we had domino's pizza. you had churches. it was amazing. you felt so loved. you know, you think about it, we did keep them safe from saddam hussein for years with the no fly zone. when you hadcaliphate? the kurds were there for us. what goes on other places does matter here. if we didn't learn that after 9/11, i don't know when we're going to. we don't want endless wars. we don't want endless wars but at the same time we would like to work with our allies so they can keep an eye out for us and maintain our safety as well. >> congressman i want to listen to what your republican

congressman told an illinois radio station earlier today. >> pull my name off the "i support donald trump" list. we have just stabbed our allies in the back. >> do you agree? have we stabbed our allies in the back? >> well, i certainly -- unless i'm missing something, it seems we turned our back on them. and i don't feel good about that. you make a lot of friends in war, believe it or not. i just had lunch with one of my interpreters, who is now a u.s. citizen and cardiologist in ohio t gives me great pleasure. you know who your friends are, the ones who are willing to support you. when they do, you want to stand by them in return. we do need them. it's not just over there. the world is different today. 9/11, the influence of isis to even launch attacks to harm people in the united states is very present. at the same time, let talk about the turks. for or against the iraq war, they wouldn't let us come in from the north, making it much

more challenging for us. now they're buying weapons from russia. it's a concern from both sides of this. >> do you have any idea why president trump did this? this wasn't part of some let's withdraw all u.s. troops from syria and iraq. at least if he had done that, that would have at least made some sense, but why just withdraw the ones from the border area to do what erdogan wanted him to do? why? >> i don't know. and i would like to have a briefing on what the expectation is. you know, we have a resolution out that's going to try to put sanctions on the turks and hopefully that would have a positive effect. unfortunately fortunately we have other branches of government and we can intervene. >> one other foreign policy,

senator rob portman said of the july 25th phone call of the president with ukraine, quote, the president should not have raised the biden issue on that call, period. it's not appropriate to engage a foreign government in an investigation of a political opponent. end quote. >> i don't think he needed to mention joe biden. that was the elephant in the room, if you will. this was a news story that's known throughout the world. it probably wasn't necessary. i do think it's appropriate for heads of state to be able to have a conversation and talk about corruption that may be affecting their country and ours. and i also think just because you're a canned dade doesn't make you immune. if you're running for sheriff and have broken laws, a sitting sheriff should be able to investigate you. but we can debate that all we want. the bottom line right now, i think, is what was actually said and both parties have said that they didn't feel that there was pressure. and i guess, you know, going to whether it's an impeachable

offense, there's been a lot of controversy about how this whole thing has been handled. >> okay. >> starting -- not starting with but concluded with adam schiff giving false testimony about what was actually said between the two leaders. >> we're out of time. brad wentstrup, thank you very much. thank you for your contribution. a live interview with bernie sanders since he had that heart attack. stay with us. anyone can deliver pizza. only marco's can deliver america's most loved pizza. hot and fresh, and right to your door. every day, get two medium, one-topping pizzas for just $6.99 each. hello to america's most loved pizza. hello marco's. you don't see psoriasis. you see clear skin. you see me. but if you saw me before cosentyx...

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under arrest, two associates of rudy giuliani as they try to leave the country on one-way tickets. the men reportedly dined with giuliani hours earlier. we have new information on their indictment. subpoenaing energy secretary rick perry for documents as the probe expands into the president's candidate. maneuvers that led to the freeze of the aid to ukraine. one signed off on it,