tv Situation Room With Wolf Blitzer CNN October 10, 2019 3:00pm-4:00pm PDT
happening now, breaking news. rudy's associates busted. two men who worked with rudy giuliani to try and dig up dirt on joe biden in the ukraine were arrested trying to flee the united states and are now charged with breaking u.s. campaign finance laws, reportedly just hours after having lunch with rudy giuliani. a subpoena for perry. another administration official is swept into the impeachment inquiry. three house committees have subpoenaed energy secretary rick perry. was he involved in the effort to dig up dirt on joe biden? bernie sanders suts doits d this hour with dr. sanjay gupta to talk about his recent heart attack, his race for the white house, the impeachment inquiry, and more. and democratic presidential candidates are about to take the stage and take on the issues facing america's lgbtq community in a night of groundbreaking
back to back town halls right here on cnn. we're calling it "equality in america." we want to welcome our viewers in the united states and around the world. i'm wolf blitzer. you're in the situation room. >> announcer: this is cnn breaking news. the breaking news tonight, dramatic new details of the arrest of two men who helped president trump's personal lawyer rudy giuliani try to dig up dirt on joe biden and ukraine. they're now charged with funneling foreign money into a u.s. election by making illegal contributions to a u.s. congressman while pushing him to get rid of the u.s. ambassador to ukraine. they were arrested at an airport just hours after having lunch with giuliani. also breaking, three house committees have just subpoenaed energy secretary rick perry for
documents about ukraine as part of the expanding impeachment inquiry into president trump. we'll talk with congressman ted lieu from the judiciary and foreign affairs committees. our foreign affairs analysts are also standing by. first, our justice correspondent jessica schneider is outside the federal courthouse in alexandria, virginia. jessica, there's new information about these men, their alleged crimes and their ties to giuliani. >> reporter: that's exactly right, wolf. prosecutors here had to act fast. that's because hours after these two men met with rudy giuliani at the trump international hotel in washington, prosecutors say they quickly made their way to dulles airport with one-way tickets to frankfurt, germany. that's when federal authorities moved in, made the and the dramatic indictment was unsealed this morning. tonight, two associates of president trump's personal attorney rudy giuliani indicted on charges they made political
donations to a u.s. congressman while pushing him to help get rid of the u.s. ambassador to ukraine on behalf of at least one ukrainian official who wanted her gone. that's the same ambassador trump removed from ukraine this year partially at the behest of giuliani. lev parnas and igor freeman are charged with conspiracy and false statements and fudge foreign money into u.s. elections. >> fruman and parnas were arrested as they were about to board an international flight with one-way tickets. >> reporter: the two, along with two others also indicted, allegedly gave hundreds of thousands of dollars to a trump super pac. the indictment says they wanted to advance their personal interests and political interests with one ukrainian official with whom they were reportedly working. they also made contributions in nevada to further a marijuana
business venture that never happened, that money coming from an unnamed russian citizen whose involvement they hid because of his russian roots and current political paranoia about it. >> this investigation is about corrupt behavior, deliberate law breaking. >> reporter: according to prosecutors the men pushed the former u.s. congress men who sources say is texas republican pete sessions to help get former ambassador to ukraine marie yovanovitch fired. the indictment alleges they raised money for the sitting u.s. congressman and sought his assistance in causing the u.s. government to remove or recall the then-u.s. ambassador to ukraine at the request of one or more ukrainian officials. yovanovitch was recalled by president trump in may in part because rudy giuliani accused her of hampering efforts to dig up dirt on joe biden. >> i heard very, very bad things about her for a long period of time. not good. >> reporter: one key question is
how these two men fit into the broader scope of the ukraine impeachment inquiry. house democrats today subpoenaed the men for documents. today's indictment adding intrigue to what is already known. parnas and fruman worked with giuliani to dig up dirt on joe biden, the same dirt the president brought up in his phone call with the ukrainian president where he mentioned the ousted ambassador to the ukraine who the indictment alleges parnas and fruman were trying to get trump to fire because the ukrainian official asked them to. >> it will be interesting, what they have to share. and what giuliani's involvement in all of this was. >> reporter: and the former republican texas congressman who was mentioned in this indictment is speaking out tonight. pete sessions says he could not have known about this alleged scheme from parnas and fruman, this was a scheme that was alleged that they funneled thousands of dollars into sessions' campaign fund. this is despite the fact that sessions is mentioned in the indictment as having met with
these two men. as for the trump super pac that accepted this about $300,000, they now say that that money is in a segregated fund but haven't said what it was put into that segregated fund. the two men, igor fruman and lev parnas, are being held in virginia on $1 million bond each. they'll ultimately face charges in new york. >> jessica schneider, thank you so much. the other breaking story we're following, energy secretary rick perry subpoenaed by house democrats as part of their impeachment inquiry. our congressional correspondent manu raju is joining us. >> reporter: this is the latest in an escalating impeachment probe that has already sent subpoenas to rudy giuliani, rudy giuliani's associates, the white house, the office of management and budget, the pentagon, and
now rick perry getting hit with a subpoena after questions were raised about conversations that he had with the ukrainian president zelensky and conversations he had with president trump, including president trump reportedly, according to cnn's reporting, urging rick perry to talk to rudy giuliani in his discussions with ukraine. now, rick perry has said that all along his conversations with the president zelensky of ukraine were simply about energy. he said he did not talk about the bidens at all or investigating the bidens, that never came up. the democrats said in their letter to perry today, these reports raise significant questions about your efforts to press ukrainian officials to change the management structure at a ukrainian state-owned energy company to benefit individuals involved with rudy giuliani's push to get ukrainian officials to interfere in our 2020 election. wolf, they are asking for documents by october 18th. perry has signaled in the past
he would be willing to cooperate but that was before the white house letter came and said that the trump administration would not cooperate with these documents. one person we're trying to see if she will cooperate tomorrow is that former ukrainian ambassador, marie yovanovitch who is scheduled to testify behind closed doors with these three house committees. at the moment i'm told she's expected to come even though she's still a state department employee, and a lot of questions about the efforts to get her out of her position, everything she knows about what the president did to urge ukrainians to investigate the bidens, wolf. >> we'll see if she does in fact testify tomorrow as scheduled or if they prevent her from doing so. manu raju, thank you very much. amid all of this, the president is headed to minneapolis for a political rally. our chief white house correspondent is there. >> reporter: wolf, the president is on his way to minneapolis for
this rally. before he left the white house, he talked to reporters. he was asked about the two giuliani associates who are facing charges. the president said he didn't know those two associates of rudy giuliani's and didn't know what they were up to. when asked about their activities in ukraine he told reporters, "you'll have to ask rudy." with two men involved in his personal attorney rudy giuliani's efforts to dig up dirt on joe biden now suddenly indicted on campaign finance violations, president trump sounded off to reporters as he left for a rally in minneapolis. >> i don't know them. i don't know about them. i don't know what they do. but, uh, i don't know, maybe they were clients of rudy. you would have to ask rudy. i just don't know. >> reporter: the arrest of giuliani associates igor fruman and lev parnas as they were allegedly trying to flee the country only add to democrats' efforts to get giuliani to
testify. >> giuliani is involved up to his neck. he has an obligation to testify under oath so he can be asked questions and this can come to light. >> reporter: the president's lead impeachment lawyer jay sekulow responded in a brief statement, read the indictment, neither the candidate nor the campaign have anything to do with them. giuliani was boasting earlier this week he wants to tell his story to lawmakers. >> i would love to testify. and give them a half hour to point out biden inc.'s four decades of crime. i would love to do it. >> reporter: the president continues to blast the fast-moving impeachment proceedings, tweeting, the president of ukraine stated again in the strongest of language that president trump applied no rush and didn't do anything wrong. >> they eviscerated the rules. it's the most unfair situation people have seen.
no lawyers, grayou can't have lawyers, you can't do anything. >> reporter: but others are coming forward to criticize the president's efforts to investigate his political opponent and his family. >> do you think it is appropriate for the president of the united states to solicit foreign interference in our political process? >> of course, no, absolutely not. >> reporter: george conway, husband of white house counsel kellyanne conway, has formed a group of conservatives slamming the president's actions, saying, these acts are a legitimate basis for an expeditious impeachment investigation. conway told preet bharara the white house refusal to cooperate with the impeachment probe doesn't hold up. >> the thrust of it is that there are some kind of constitutional obligations that the house has failed to meet that therefore render its
impeachment inquiry i wi illlegitimate which is of course nonsense. >> reporter: the president tweeted that fox news's pollster suck after finding a majority of americans support the president's impeachment. >> congressman ted lieu from california, thanks to much for joining us. what does it tell you that these two associates of rudy giuliani are now charged by the federal government with conspiracy to buy political influence? >> thank you, wolf, for your question. in 2016 russia interfered in our elections and helped donald trump. in 2018, we now know that these two associates of rudy giuliani helped funnel hundreds of
thousands of dollars to funnel money to a pro-trump super pac. last month we learned the president of the united states solicited ukraine to target his political opponent. we're all americans and we cannot have the american president continue to receive or solicit illegal assistance from foreign powers. >> how will this indictment, congressman, impact your ability to get documents, to get testimony from these two men? >> so i'm on two of the committees of jurisdiction. on foreign affairs oversight, which is being led in this investigation by the intel committee, we've sent out subpoenas to those two associates of rudy giuliani's. we also have issued a subpoena to rick perry. we have subpoenaed numerous other witnesses. why are there so many subpoenas? because we're seeing epic corruption, corruption at an unprecedented level among senior white house staff going up potentially to the president. >> what questions do you have for rudy giuliani at this point? >> it is very suspicious timing
that right after his two associates had a lunch with him, that they immediately tried to escape the country, and they were thankfully stopped by law enforcement at dulles airport. i want to know what giuliani knew about what his associates were doing in trying to get a member of congress, then-congressman pete sessions to write a letter criticizing the former u.s. ambassador. this is all very corrupt, very shady. we want to get answers. >> house democrats, as you know, have subpoenaed the energy secretary, rick perry, for documents. the administration has made it clear it won't cooperate so how likely is it that you will get any information from secretary perry? >> if secretary perry wants to clear his name he will come in and testify and provide documents. if he did nothing wonrong, he wl give information for the american people to see. we already know that donald trump cut off military aid to ukraine and a week later had a phone call with the ukrainian
president and right after the ukrainian leader raises the issue of military aid, donald trump asks for a favor, one of those is to target biden. there was a full-on pressure campaign to get ukraine to carting and investigate the bidens. this was not a one-off conversation donald trump had. it was a full-on campaign and we want to know what rick perry's involvement was in that campaign. >> you're scheduled to hear from former u.s. ambassador to the ukraine marie yovanovitch tomorrow morning. are you confident that will go ahead and happen or will the trump administration prevent her? she still works at the state department. >> i will not be surprised if the trump administration tries to obstruct and give her testimony. but she is free to come and speak and provide her documents, as ambassador volker did. we understand she was recalled earlier and she is not particularly someone that is a loyalist to some of these
enablers of donald trump. i think she has a story to tell and the american people should be able to hear her story. >> the difference is ambassador kurt volker, special envoy to ukraine, had resigned a few days earlier so he was a private citizen when he went and answered questions before the committee. she still is a u.s. government employee, a career dip will lod foreign service officer. >> she is, but she's getting a formal request from congress to appear and testify about potential misconduct in our federal government. i believe she has every right to come forward and to give that testimony. and i expect her to come forward. >> what if secretary pompeo says you can't go? >> then we will subpoena her as well. and secretary pompeo needs to be careful because i don't think he would want to have an article of impeachment leveled against him for obstruction of congress. >> we've also learned, congressman, that a political appointee over at the office of management and budget, michael duffy, was involved in freezing that u.s. military assistance to
ukraine. career officials raised lots of concerns about whether that potentially broke the law. do you want duffy to testify in your investigation? >> absolutely. and again, this new development shows that this was not a random conversation donald trump had with the ukrainian president. it was very clearly deliberate that donald trump halted critical military aid and that they passed it off to a political appointee even though it was likely illegal. then they sent mike pence to pressure the ukrainians to investigate joe biden. it is against american values. >> thank you for joining us. ahead, senator bernie sanders sits down with cnn's sanjay gupta to talk about his health, the impeachment inquiry, and more. we'll be right back.
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and we're just over an hour away from the start of cnn's groundbreaking town halls on equality in america. due to his recent heart attack, democratic presidential candidate bernie sanders won't be joining nine of his rivals in los angeles for the town halls. but he is joining us live from vermont, his home state, to talk with cnn's chief medical correspondent sanjay gupta. sanjay, things so much for doing this. >> you got it, wolf, thank you. and senator sanders, thank you for having us in your home. >> thank you for visiting us in burlington. >> it's a house call. [ laughter ] two associates of rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, are arrested and indicted on campaign finance violations. what do you make of that? >> nothing about trump ever shocks me. he is i think the most corrupt president in the modern history of america. inch he is a pathological liar
who doesn't know the difference between truth and lies. i don't think he understands the constitution of the united states and certainly not the rule of law. he was born with a lot of money. he's arrogant. he thinks he can do whatever he wants to do. frankly nothing shocks me. >> senator, you may know these two gentlemen were found at dulles airport with one-way tickets out of the country. pretty obvious what that means, right? >> yeah, of course it's obvious what it means. >> they were trying to leave the country and not come back. >> yes. but again, i think the impeachment process is going to unveil so many things about this administration that the american people have to know. the bottom line is, this is so clearly a president unfit to hold the highest office in this country. >> it's good to be here with you, senator, and you look well. i want to talk specifically about what happened to you this past week. i want to clarify something. you said you misspoke yesterday when talking about changing the nature of your campaign, dialing
it back, not doing four rallies a day. did you misspeak or are you going to dial it back? >> probably next week i'm not going to do four rallies a day. i've probably done more rallies than any other candidate currently running for president of the united states. but i'm feeling great and we're going to run a vigorous campaign. we're working on a schedule right now which will take us to iowa, to nevada, probably back to new hampshire. we're ready to go. >> you had a doctor's appointment i believe this week and a followup appointment now back in vermont. what did they tell you? >> the reason -- i have been blessed with such good health my entire life, to be honest with you. i never went to a cardiologist before this event and i didn't one in burlington. we found a good cardiologist, they looked at my heart, and he
says the recovery is going very, very well and we look forward to a full recovery. echocardiogr echocardiogram. >> which is an important test, an echocardiogram tells how well the heart is beating and can give some indication how sfever the heart attack was. what did they tell you? >> they told me we're on the road to a full recovery. there was some damage but what happens is, within the next month we'll see what happens, but so far, so very good. >> and there's a video of you swinging a bat. >> trying to keep up with my grandchildren, that is very exhausting. >> it's almost a silly question to ask how you're feeling, because you said you feel great. >> sanjay, the god's truth is if you were sitting there and say, bernie, did you have a heart attack last week, i would say, what are you talking about, i feel great. i have not an ounce of pain. i've been walking around a whole
lot, playing ball with the kids. so, you know, i feel very good and i'm confident that we're going to be running a very, very vigorous campaign. but what i would say, i don't know if you wanted to talk about this, what i do kick myself a little bit about, and i hope people understand this and hear this, is that i should have paid more attention to some of the symptoms that were occurring. you know, when you do four rallies a day and run all over the country, you get tired, everybody would get tired. butiv ive was more tired than i usually have been, had more trouble sleeping than ordinarily. occasional i would be up there at the bopodium and would feel unsteady. one time i was literally holding the mic up to my mouth and my arm hurt. i should have paid more attention to those symptoms. i hope people learn from my
mistake. >> it's an important point, the symptoms you're describing may not be classic symptoms, but left arm pain, this sort of stuff are indicators. how long had you had symptoms, senator? >> it's hard to say, as i said, when you're running around the country, what else is new, you're going to be tired. i would say several weeks, and i should have paid attention. >> they tell you you're having a heart attack, when you go into the clinic tuesday night. obviously that's frightening, the worst kind of news. did you think this could be fatal? >> no. this is what i thought. first of all, we were driving, my staff and i, i was at an event, and because i was speaking and for the first time i said, get me a chair, i have to sit down, and i was sweating profusely.
normally we do selfies, we have discussions, i was in no state to do that. i felt badly for the people in the audience. i took a few questions, was very brief in my response, and i said to my staff guys, we've got to get out of here, and my first thought was let's go back to the hotel and i started feeling pain in my arm and we went to urgent care place in las vegas near the hotel, and the doctor there diagnosed -- she made a diagnosis in about three seconds. i went by ambulance to desert springs hospital. and they had been warned, told that i was coming, and the procedure was done about 45 minutes later. >> so pretty quick. >> very quick. >> senator, i don't know if you've seen this before, i took the liberty of finding a stent and a balloon. this is now -- you have two of these in one of blood vessels in your heart. they use the balloon to sort of open it up and there's the stent. is that strange to look at?
>> well, it's not strange to look at, it's strange to know it's in here. >> doing the job. >> some folks think i may be a little bit stronger now that i have an artery that's not blocked. what i've learned in the last week, more about cardiology than i ever wanted to know, is my understanding is many hundreds of thousands of people a year have this procedure. >> how is this going to impact -- how are you going to balance the campaign and the followup visits and the things that you need to do now to keep your heart healthy? >> we have a great doctor in d.c. and we've made a new doctor friend here in burlington. the folks in las vegas were great as well. but we're going to play it by ear. but i am feeling great and lock forward to a very vigorous campaign. i look forward to the debate next week. >> you said it was -- someone said that tuesday night you knew you had a heart attack, you waited until friday to talk about it. you said it wasn't a lack of
transparency. was the intent that we are going to disclose this at some point, just not now? >> of course. people do have a right to know about the health of a senator and someone running for the united states. at the appropriate time we'll make all the medical records public for you or anyone else who wants to see them. the first concern people had was to understand what was going on before we're going to reveal information dribble by dribble. but we released -- will release all the records. >> you're doing this interview with me, it's a fair conversation to be having about health and age. >> absolutely. and by the way it's a fair conversation, people have a right to know how i'm feeling. but if i may at this moment just say thank you to so many people all over the country who have expressed their concerns and written us in so many ways with their love and concern. and i appreciate that. >> i'm glad to see you're doing well. senator, let me take a few minutes to ask you a few
questions about the town hall tonight, lgbtq town hall, you can't be there, obviously. >> let me apologize to the human rights organization for not being there, i'm glad they're having it. >> you've been fighting for gay rights since the early 1970s, there is a picture from you in '63 in chicago, a civil rights protest at that point. has civil rights and gay rights, have they always been part of the same thing? >> they are. i think the picture you're referring to is wheniv ive was student at the university of chicago, arrested in a demonstration against segregated housing. i'm dating myself but i was there for dr. king's speech on jobs and justice. so the issue of justice, ending discrimination, is something that i've been involved in my
whole life, wheniv ive was mayo burlington, i was involved in it. >> when you read the civil rights language, it says prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, color, religion, national origin. it doesn't say sexual orientation. how do you reconcile that? >> we can argue what the intent is. what i will tell you, sanjay, i'm very worried about the right wing in this country now using the argument of freedom of religion to force discrimination. we all believe in freedom of religion. we're all proud americans, everybody has the right to practice their own religion. but we cannot now use the argument that it is my religious belief that if you're gay, i will not sell you a cake, or i will -- if you are black, it is my religious belief you can't come into my story, if you're jewish, whatever. we've gone way, way beyond that. and it worries me very much that there is a strong movement
trying to bring -- under the guise of freedom of religion, racism, sexism, homophobia back into this country. >> there are two arguments being heard at the supreme court this week specifically about discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. if the supreme court doesn't rule in favor of the plaintiffs here, what could you do if you were president of the united states to offer those protections? >> everything that's humanly possible. you think back on the history of our country, from the first settlers coming here and the terrible things they did to natinate ive americans. we think about the atrocity of slavery, we think about the assaults on asians who were thrown out of the country, anti-semitism, anti-irish sentiment, we have been through it all. we should are proud, as a nation, having gone through all of that, that we put so much of
that behind us. does racism exist now? of course it does. but we've come a long, long way. we elected an african-american as president of the united states, something that people 30 years ago never would have dreamed was possible. and it upsets me very much that trump and some of his allies are trying to roll back the clock and take us to a place that we have gone far beyond. >> president obama, as you talked about, signed an executive order prohibiting discrimination against federal workers. what would you do specifically? >> we would pass federal legislation that makes it clear that it is illegal to prohibit, to have discrimination against anybody because of their sexual orientation. that's clear. and it would be a very broad and sweeping legislation. at work and any other capacity of life. >> some of these things, they're all sort of based on the idea that it's still a republican,
likely to be a republican senate. how does this work, how do you get something like that through a republican senate? >> i think, interestingly enough, while you have a small group of right wing folks who want to push this discriminatory agenda, the climate has changed so much in this country. we're sitting in vermont now. vermont has been a leader in gay rights. in fact we were the first state to pass what was then called civil unions legislation which was a precursor to gay marriage. i can remember 25 years ago, 30 years ago, whatever, marching with people who were really upset about this concept. it's all gone. the younger generation, if you tell somebody, what should you do about gay marriage, they don't know what you're talking about. the world has changed dramatically and in a good way.
my administration will do everything humanly possible to fight homophobia, involving the gay community, fighting racism, sexism, and the religious bigotry that the trump administration is forcing on us. >> some of it is so atrocious, 19 transgender people were killed this year. the american medical association calls it an epidemic. we're talking about protections, we're talking about life and death situations. as president, what could you do to protect transgender populations? >> first we will make it clear that every transgender murder will be investigated by the department of justice as a severe hate crime. we will not tolerate that type of behavior. and i think the good news is that the american people understand that, the american people want us to move away from
this kind of vulgar, disgusting discrimination into a society where we treat people as human beings no matter the color of their skin, their sexual orientation, whether they're transgender, whatever it may be. that is the goal, and we've come a long way. it breaks my heart to see a president who is taking us in exactly the direction that we have overcome, that we've tried to overcome. >> senator sanders, i just want to ask, again, about your health, what are you doing differently now? is there new medications, i imagine, are you taking care of yourself differently, diet? >> i am. look, i won't tell you that i have been the worst either in the -- eater in the world but i was not the best. i'm doing my best to stay away from junk food and so on. we're going to do better with food. >> during this process, nine
days now, was there any point when you said, you know what, i think the best course of action may be to drop out? >> no. because, you know, i don't know how -- again, you know, when you hear the word "heart attack," you think of somebody lying on the ground in terrible pain. wasn't the case, okay? the day i woke up after the procedure, no pain, zero pain. no pain right now. i feel really good. so, you know, my feeling was, once i assessed the situation and learned what happened, that given that my whole life struggle, not to be overly dramatic here but i've spent my entire life trying to fight injustice, not only against homophobia but for workers rights, to create an environment that is not destroying our water and our air, to deal with climate change. all of those issues. and we've had significant
success in kind of transforming the dialoguing in america. many of the issues that i tabbed four years ago that were considered radical then are mainstream today. many of my democratic opponents are saying today what i said four years ago. so we've struggled really hard to get to where we are right now, bringing millions of people together if the fig together in the fight for justice. i'm not a quitter. i've had adversity. no question, i don't want anyone to have a heart attack, but there are a lot of people watching this show right now dealing with adversity, unlike me, they could not afford to get the health care that i got. i got really high quality health care. we haven't gotten the bill yet. but i have, you know, strong private insurance, i have medicare, i'm sure my wife and i will be paying out of pocket, we
can afford to do that. but what happens to somebody who is 63 and felt the same pains that i felt and they would be thinking,crappy but if i go to e hospital and run up the bill by thousands of dollars, how am i going to pay for that? will i go bankrupt? will i be able to put food on the table for my kids? so one of the things that did occur to me, it's not a secret to any american that i believe that health care is a human right, that 50 miles away from here, in canada, if you're in the hospital for three months, dealing with cancer or whatever else, you leave that hospital without paying a nickel, because it is publicly financed. i think that this incident made me really think on a personal level what happens to people who don't have these advantages. >> suggestas you said before, is like this incident has reinforced that. >> exactly. >> we're out of time. thank you very much. i'm glad you're doing well.
>> thank you so much. >> absolutely. wolf? >> sanjay, thanks so much, we're glad he's a doing well, a very important and interesting interview indeed. we'll discuss that and a whole lot more including all the breaking news. right now, two of rudy giuliani's associates have been arrested today. we've got our experts, our analysts, they are here. we'll be right back. we used to love going out with julia and mike, but since they bought their new house... which menu am i looking at here? start with "ta-paz." -oh, it's tapas. -tapas. get out of town. it's like eating dinner with your parents. sandra, are you in school? yes, i'm in art school. oh, wow. so have you thought about how you're gonna make money? at least we're learning some new things. we bundled our home and auto with progressive, saved a bunch. oh, we got a wobbler. progressive can't protect you from becoming your parents, but we can protect your home and auto when you bundle with us. that's what the extra menu's for.
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you just heard senator bernie sanders talking to dr. sanjay gupta about his recent heart attack and his presidential campaign. let's dig deeper, david chalian, what did you make of what you heard from senator sanders? >> i think the senator was accomplishing a really important political goal here in talking about his health to sanjay. wolf, you heard senator sanders say he is on the road to a full recovery, that's what the doctors told him. you heard him say he doesn't have an ounce of pain. while he described what he went through in this process, what he made clear is his campaign is going to continue in earnest. sanjay asked him about scaling back the campaign, and he did suggest that it is going to be a different rhythm out of the gate here of him returning to the campaign trail. it might not be as active a schedule as it once was. what he made clear i think in doing this interview is that by saying he's on the road to full
recovery, he's trying to make sure his supporters understand, his competitors understand and the political world at large that bernie sanders intends to stay very much in this race for the democratic nomination. >> abby, i'm anxious to get your thoughts. >> i thought he was definitely trying to put a strong face on this situation. but i did note that when sanjay asked him what did your doctors tell you about the severity of what you experienced, he didn't answer that question. there have been some questions for his campaign about how quickly they have been getting information out about what he experienced, the fact that he had a heart attack in the first place which was only revealed days after he was hospitalized. there are still a lot of questions here. for sanders it's important for him to make clear to his support that's he's still up and about and this is not going to slow him down. but i think there are also some questions about the level of transparency around this whole situation and what his supporters and donors deserve to
know. >> sanjay did an excellent job, as usual. susan, let's talk about the breaking news we're following today. two associates of rudy giuliani arrested by federal authorities, fbi agents arrested them as they were about to board an international flight out of washington's dulles airport for frankfurt. what's your analysis of this? because the charges are very serious. >> so they stand accused of campaign finance violations. obviously we've learned a lot about campaign finance violation as a country over the past years, but essentially hatching a scheme to illegally funnel foreign money into the u.s. political process, primarily aimed at republicans. these are really serious charges. they were arrested at dulles airport after having purchased a one-way ticket out of the country that apparently caused investigat investigators to think they might be fleeing the jurisdiction. ordinarily if you're planning to return, you would buy a ticket back. it looks like this has been a
longstanding investigation. this isn't something that cropped up in the last few weeks as we've learned more about the president's scandal related to ukraine and of course their involvement with rudy giuliani. this appears to be a separate or at least for now appears to be sort of separate criminal activity. and the fact that these people were attempting to leave the jurisdiction appears to have been the trigger to cause sdny to say we need to make this arrest before they flee the jurisdiction where we might not be able to obtain custody. >> listen to the president as he was leaving >> i don't know those gentlemen. it's possible i have a picture with them because i have a picture with everybody. i have a picture with everybody here. i don't know if there's anybody i don't have pictures with. i don't know them. i don't know about them. i don't know what they do, but -- i don't know, maybe they were clients of rudy. you'd have to ask rudy. i just don't know. >> are you concerned that rudy giuliani could be indict individual of this? >> i don't know. again, i don't know how he knows these people.
>> they're his clients. >> what? >> they're his clients. >> okay, well, he's got a lot of clients. i don't know. i haven't spoken to rudy about it. i don't know. i will say this, from what i heard, i just heard about this, they said we have nothing to do with it. we have nothing to do with it. >> let me get your analysis. when you just heard that explanation. clearly, the president is trying to distance himself from this indictment of rudy giuliani's clients who rudy was working with to dig up dirt on joe biden and ukraine. this is not good for the president's sources that i've been speaking to. each if there is not a direct relationship with president trump it still muddies the waters and there is concern that giuliani could be a political at the very least, a political liability for the president so the question is moving forward, is rudy even working with the president as his personal attorney? that hasn't really been answered yet and there are clues that the legal team are trying to distance themselves with rudy
bringing in trey gowdy, and each as the president said today, trey gowdy wouldn't start because of lobbying issues and it is clear they're taking a new tact. as other people like paul manafort and michael flynn found themselves in unrelated legal trouble and that is one reason they'll provide to federal regulators and these related crimes -- unrelated crimes can end up being an important leverage point? we should make it clear that we talk about this as a campaign finance violation, but what the indictment seems to lay out is an influence campaign in which these people were funneling money through the u.s. political system in order to influence u.s. officials, president trump and the nexus here in addition to that is a, giuliani and b, the ambassador to ukraine who is also caught up in the president's impeachment scandal. these two individuals according to this indictment allegedly were trying to get her fired.
she was removed from her position. so there are some interesting, unanswered questions here that definitely seem to link back to giuliani and link back to some of the characters who are in this whole impeachment. >> let me get david chalian. if you read this 21-page indictment it is very specific in allegations that hundreds of thousands were illegally funneled for political purposes by these guys. i don't know if david can hear me. can you hear me, david? >> reporter: oh, sorry, rewolf. i didn't realize that was to me. it is a pay for play scheme that is alleged here. these twos so thias of rudy giuliani either promised to raise money for pete sessions the republican congressman of tebl texas and guess who was involved in passing along recommendations
that ivanovich, the ambassador be removed from that position? there is a clear allegation here of a pay to play scheme and this is why i think when you have the president of the united states on the south lawn saying talk to rudy, it's because the facts that are here are problematic and donald trump wants nothing to do with it and he's pushing it back off to his personal attorney, rudy giuliani. >> so, david, what's going to be the political fallout from these charges that have now been leveled? >> well, the political fallout is going to be that we have another set of facts in this case that is going to make it that much harder for the president to just rally -- have every single republican rally around him. it draws in other people, tentacles are everywhere and so if you're looking at the political impact here, you are once again learning a new set of facts each day that makes the
president's case more difficult to make here in the public arena not easier. this isn't sort of evidence that completely clears what the president or associates of his were trying to do in terms of getting a foreign government to dig up dirt. it keeps coming back to the central idea which is what the democrats are basing it. >> this is a 21-page indictment that was signed by the united states attorney for the southern district of new york jeffrey berman who is a trump appointee. he was nominated by president trump. >> that's absolutely right, and we know from our previous reporting that trump has been unhappy with the u.s. attorney's office in new york because of the michael cohen charges and so it will be really interesting to see how this plays out. clearly, they believe they have enough evidence there to bring a case and in talking to sources that are familiar with this case
and close to the president, as well, there is certainly a concern that this is just the beginning. the concern is that perhaps these two associates of rudy giuliani could flip and something could happen next involving rudy. my colleague, evan and shimon are reporting that as part of this investigators scrutinized rudy giuliani again and politically, this is not a good thing for the president. >> we only know the very, very tip of what's going on. everybody stick around and there's more on the breaking news. an important note, tune in to cnn starting at 7:30 p.m. eastern for a night of back-to-back town halls as the democratic presidential candidate discuss issues facing the lgbtq community. much more on the breaking news right after this. i'm happy to give you the tour, i love doing it.
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fighters appeared to return fire at several turkish border towns were hit with mortar rounds killing five people and injuring 46 others and according to turkish government statements and turkey's foreign minister is saying that the goal of the operation is to remove terrorists from the region and today turkey's president threatened to allow millions of refugees into europe if leaders there describe turkey's military offensive in northeast sir dwyr an occupation. >> that's an awful situation that's unfolding right now. to our viewers, thanks very much for watching.
i'm wolf blitzer in "the situation room." you can follow me on twitter and instagram @wolfblitzer. you can always tweet the show at cnn sitroom. erin burnett "out front" starts right now. good evening. i'm erin burnett. "out front" tonight, breaking news, two men arrested from the ukraine scandal. they're personal associates of rudy giuliani, trump's personal lawyer. they were seen having lunch with giuliani at the trump international hotel in washington just hours before they were arrested at the airport. i want to show you a picture of one of the men about giuliani at that same hotel just last month. these two men were arrested as they were about to leave the united states with one-way tickets. here's what president trump said late this afternoon. >> i don't know them. i don't know about them. enwhat they do.