tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN March 29, 2012 1:00am-2:00am EDT
tyson. that's it for us tonight. "ac 360" starts right now. we begin with breaking news. our first look at george zimmerman in police custody the night that trayvon martin was killed. this is a vital piece of the picture, because zimmerman is claiming he fired in self-defense, that trayvon martin came up behind him, decked him with a single punch in the face and began slamming his head on the ground. martin's father today called that b.s. the family has always questioned zimmerman's version. now we have direct evidence of zimmerman's condition for the first time. you can decide whether the man in the video looks like someone who minutes before had been in a fight for his life. this police surveillance video first shown tonight on "abc world news" begins with george zimmerman being taken out of a patrol car at sanford police headquarters. he's wearing the same red jacket and blue jeans that he was wearing when he came across trayvon martin who was on his way home from the 7-eleven with a bag of skittles and an iced
tea. now, the police report says he was bleeding from the nose and back of the head and was examined by emts at the scene before being taken in for questioning. attorney sonner says he believes that martin broke zimmerman's nose. we have frozen a portion of the video showing his nose and face so you can look more carefully and decide whether it's consistent with the kind of fight that zimmerman described. granted, it's surveillance video. it's not up close and the lighting is not good and the angle obviously could be better. but it's full of clues. here the officer touches zimmerman's sleeve and a few seconds later wipes off his hand. is it blood? that's a question. and then you see here the officer looks at the back of zimmerman's head. he takes a good look at it. he's clearly looking at something. the question, though, is he looking at the kind of injury that comes from somebody slamming someone's head repeatedly into concrete? let's wait for him to look. there he is looking. now, the officer takes a second look and now so can you.
finally, zimmerman is taken inside for questioning. we've slowed down the video here so you can take another longer look at zimmerman's face, his head, whether there's blood on his clothing, grass stains even on the back of his jacket. remember, abc news and a local media reporting that a lead investigator that night did not buy zimmerman's story. he wanted to file manslaughter charges but was overruled by the state's attorney. tonight, for the first time, you can see at least a hint of what he saw that night. in addition abc news spoke to trayvon martin's girl friend about their conversation just moments before the deadly encounter. he said he was walking fast when he says this man behind him again. he come and says -- and say this dude look like he about to do something to him. she went on to say, and then trayvon said the man is still behind him and then i come and say, run. she also said that he was scared. trayvon said this dude looked
creepy, he looked like he crazy. joining me is director of the private security group. thanks very much. i guess you looking at this surveillance tape, what do you see in terms of the police procedures bringing him in? everything looked pretty normal? >> he was obviously in a state of arrest. i didn't observe any dramatic physical injuries. if he complained of some, i would suspect, especially a broken nose, anderson, that the law enforcement agency would have offered him some medical treatment. an emergency room, for example. but i hate to say it in this fashion but the injuries to this individual to me are almost academic at this point because i think if you look at the timeline from when zimmerman contacted the police through 911 and they basically instructed him to stand down and they continued to precipitate contact with this young man and the statement and recording of -- with his girlfriend, trayvon with his girlfriend, he
precipitated this. this young man didn't know who he was. and the reality of the situation is, zimmerman had no authority to approach him, period. he's not a sworn law enforcement agent. he didn't have anything on his person to identify him as such. why would anyone just randomly comply with anyone approaching him? >> he had no training, not even in uniform. >> no training, no experience, no identification. and he wasn't licensed to carry the weapon in this capacity. what people don't understand, in florida, for example, and i work all over the country. in florida you may have a license to carry a concealed weapon. it's a very liberal state. the minute you want to carry that weapon in a capacity of employment, you're required to have another license. and in the neighborhood watch, under whose authority did he do this? and quite frankly, if anyone is questioning whether or not he
precipitated this encounter, you need your head examined. >> his lawyer -- or a lawyer he consulted with at one point, told us he believed zimmerman had broken his nose. and by the time he was taken to an emergency room, the wound on the back of his head, which the lawyer said would have needed stitches, had begun to heal so they didn't put in any stitches. in that video, though, again, it's not good video. it's not a great angle. the lighting's not good. you don't see any indication of blood. >> i saw the video in the waiting room where i was far closer to it than i am in proximity right now and i did not see any injuries consistent with this alleged struggle that took place. and the other problem he has is that he's alleging that this young man jumped him from behind when there's nothing consistent with the timeline for that evening that would support that. >> the fact that a lead investigator on the case wanted charges to be brought, what does that tell you? >> that tells you that someone
was on the ball. he looked a not thing and he realized that this guy had used what we consider to be excessive force and he knew that was problematic and he was on the money there, as we all know in hindsight right now. the law enforcement agency dropped the ball on this. actually, the state attorney or investigator. >> right. because the police turned it over to the state attorney to see whether charges would finally be brought. >> exactly. >> this is the first video that we've been able to see of george zimmerman from that night. lou palumbo, appreciate you coming in, thank you very much. >> my pleasure. >> always good to talk to you. >> we want to get some legal perspective on this, also joining us, obviously jose baez won an acquittal in the casey anthony trial. also former los angeles deputy district attorney marcia clark is joining us. marcia, this video, the first time we are seeing george zimmerman. no one wants to make any rush to judgment. there's still a lot we don't know about the facts of this case.
looking at the footage as you see it, does anything jump out to you? >> well, i have to agree with your former guest. i don't see any injuries in this tape, with all of the caveats. regarding angle and lighting and the distance, et cetera. nevertheless, the injuries described by george zimmerman that made him sound as really -- he should have been on a stretcher are not apparent in this tape at all. he moves freely. he moves fluidly, not someone that has just been through a beating in any way, shape or form. someone whose head has been pounded in the way he described, this is someone that requires immediate medical treatment. let me point out one other thing, anderson -- police, when they see somebody in that kind of extreme trouble, the first thing they do is make sure medical treatment is given because they can be held accountable for any aggravated injury that occurred as a result of him not being treated for his injuries. it's very significant that, a, he didn't demand medical
treatment and, b, the police didn't see a need for it either. that tells you a great deal, even with the angle and lighting as such that we see right now on the surveillance tape doesn't give you everything, the actions and manner in which this man was treated, his injuries tell you that his injuries could not have been that significant. >> jose, as a defense attorney looking at this tape, what do you see? >> i don't think you can tell much from this tape. this is an after-the-fact situation where at the scene he was spoken to. he might have been cleaned up there. we don't know the extent of what occurred at the scene. whether he was actually looked at by emt. if he was, he was cleaned up and put in cuffs and taken away. how often do you see someone get knocked out, perhaps in a boxing match and walk back to the dressing room. this, after the fact, doesn't tell you much. >> lou, if the report had been that his head was banged multiple times -- we don't know if it was on the grass or ground or sidewalk, he seems to be walking pretty fine. again, we don't know the time line, we don't know how many
hours after the incident or minutes after the incident this is. you wanted to make a point? >> well, obviously if the police arrived on the scene and saw him in a battered condition, with the broken nose which would have been consistent with profuse bleeding, lacerations or contusions to the head, they would have transported him or suggested it. marcia clark made a very good point. procedurally what we do if you refuse to seek medical treatment, we would make note that you did so so we further insulated ourselves. she's right. if we mishandle someone's injury and god forbid they expire, we end up in wrongful death and under the spotlight. but i don't think there was anything consistent with this individual's injuries from start to finish that lent itself to his story. i think he bit off more than he could chew and was trying to figure out how he was going to employ damage control. >> marcia, is this a tape that would find its way into a trial if there was a trial? >> oh, yeah. most definitely. anderson, this tape, in my opinion, is very impeaching. yes, you can say it was after the fact and other things may have happened. but there is going to be some
indication that he refused medical treatment. i'd like to see all of the police reports. the jury will certainly hear what was written in the police reports. but the manner in which he's moving, the manner in which the police are handling him would be extremely important to show that he was not beaten as badly as he said he was, that he is indeed lying. it's very important proof that you can get there. we'll see what ultimately happens with it. in the very beginning when this case broke, a lot of us believed, including myself, that police had dropped the ball, had let this guy go, had not pursued all the procedures they should have to seek his arrest. in fact, they did. it came out now that we now that a police officer, the lead investigator said we don't believe him. his story doesn't make sense and wanted to pursue a case against him. so i think that as the information unfolds, we have to leave our minds open to the possibility that what we thought in the beginning of this case is not the way it's going to ultimately develop. >> and, again, it argues for not rushing to judge on either side of this.
obviously still photos would have been taken by police officers, right? >> well, obviously at the crime scene there would have been still photography. they would have ripped it off -- >> would they have taken photos of george zimmerman? >> not necessarily. if he was placed under arrest and formally charged, they would have taken photographs of him. the thing that is interesting and i don't have a full grasp of the laws in the state of florida. they should have charged him with murder because you can always back off that charge. when they charge him with manslaughter, to me is a little gray unto itself. as if it might have been an accidental shooting. that resulted in his death. >> that's what the lead investigator suggested. i want to hear from jose baez in just a moment. we have to take a quick break, though. a lot more to talk about on this tape. we're with also going to be joined by the reporter who broke this story and many other stories in the case, and spoke directly to trayvon martin's girlfriend. let me know what you think about
this tape. more on this ahead. we'll be right back. [ male announcer ] it's simple physics... a body at rest tends to stay at rest... while a body in motion tends to stay in motion. staying active can actually ease arthritis symptoms. but if you have arthritis, staying active can be difficult. prescription celebrex can help relieve arthritis pain so your body can stay in motion. because just one 200mg celebrex a day
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the police surveillance video was shown first tonight on "abc world news." you can see zimmerman getting out of a police squad car. his hands are cuffed behind his back. he's wearing the red jacket that we've heard so much about. a jacket that did not identify him as a neighborhood watch volunteer. it's the first look we have had of his physical condition that night. it's the first opportunity we've had to judge for ourselves if he looks like a man who was beaten in what he described as a fight for his life. trayvon martin's parents have always questioned zimmerman's version of what happened in the moments before their son was killed. we've frozen a portion of the video showing his face and nose. he told police trayvon martin punched him in the nose and then slammed his head into the ground. we don't know if it was the sidewalk or the grass or what. the police report said he was bleeding from his nose and the back of the head. he was examined by emts at the scene. now, in this sequence you request see the officer touching zimmerman's sleeve and then wiping something off.
we're not clear what he's going to be wiping off here. the quality of the video is far from ideal. the lighting, angle could obviously be better. he then appears to check the back of zimmerman's head, or the back of zimmerman. and then you can see he does the same -- we've frozen this portion of the video. remember, zimmerman told police that trayvon martin slammed his head into the ground after punching him in the face -- punching him so forcefully that it knocked him to the ground. finally, zimmerman is taken inside for questioning. we've slowed down the video so you can take a longer look at his face, his head, whether you see any signs of blood on his clothing or grass stains on his clothing. as we've said, trayvon martin's family doesn't buy zimmerman's story. trayvon's father calls this language b.s. >> he said that trayvon hit him, knocked him to the ground, got
on top of him, put his knees on arms and pinned him down. put his hand -- put his left hand over his mouth, told him shut the "f" up. and proceeded to beat him with the other hand. zimmerman said -- then says, trayvon was -- i mean, zimmerman was able to unholster his weapon and fire one shot and trayvon fell back and said, you got me. >> tonight we have many potential clues in this tape. joining me by phone is matt gutman who got hold of the tape. matt, you also talked to the woman -- the young woman who spoke to trayvon martin on the phone moments before the shooting. what is the most important thing that she told you were? >> she seems to tell a different version than what mr. zimmerman
told police. she was on the phone with him, 7:12 p.m., as he was trying to run away from george zimmerman. he talks about this crazy looking man behind him, this white dude chasing him. he starts running away. he thought he lost zimmerman. but then she hears, this guy is on my tail again. at some point zimmerman confronts him. trayvon martin sayses why are you following me? zimmerman says, what are you doing here and the next thing she hears is a scuffle breaking out, the phone falling to the grass, and then it went dead. she never heard from him again. so her version seems to contradict pretty significantly from what mr. zimmerman said. it seems it was impossible that martin actually turned around and tried to attack zimmerman, as he went to his car, knocking him out, and then slamming his head on the ground. >> you got hold of this surveillance tape. have you been told anything by police or from any sources about any injuries that george zimmerman may have had or
allegedly had? because we've heard prior reports -- >> no, the only thing -- >> go ahead. >> the only thing we really know about zimmerman's injuries were from his attorney, craig sonner who said that his nose was broken, the back of his head was bloody. there was similar information on the police report -- the original police report that night. but we never knew the extent of his injuries. we also knew that he never checked into the hospital. he never required stitches for the injuries to the back of the head. now we can see why, because you look at that video, and we think we've been able to make out a little bit a welt on the back of his head, but certainly, i think, your assessment of this is correct. it doesn't look like someone that was beaten to an inch of his life, or beaten so significantly that he needed to draw his weapon. >> matt gutman, i appreciate you calling in. matt broke the story with the videotape -- first to get this videotape. once again, joining us is criminal defense attorney jose baez and marcia clark and lou palumbo.
jose, in terms of what matt said, he said he might be able to see some sort of a welt on the back of the head. how important do you think this tape will be at any potential trial? >> well, i think the prosecutor would certainly use something like that i think is certainly well after the fact. this is subsequent to him receiving treatment from emt. what's really important here is under the law you actually don't have to sustain these type of injuries. you just have to fear death or great bodily harm. you don't actually have to have great bodily harm to use deadly force in this scenario. so i don't think -- first of all, legally it doesn't seem to be highly relevant. however, it does become relevant if you're trying to prove a circumstantial set of facts. but you have to take it with a grain of salt, that this is well after the incident, after he's been cleaned up by emt.
and after, obviously, he's well enough to go to the police department. actually, sustaining these types of injuries it's not required under the law. >> marcia, it bears repeating again, we don't know the full details of what happened from the time george zimmerman got out of his vehicle, to the time trayvon martin was shot. we have different eyewitness reports. we don't know exactly what happened yet. but jose raises an interesting point that so much of this case, if it becomes a legal case, what will hinge on what was in george zimmerman's mind? what was in trayvon martin's mind? what was their perceptions? why was with george zimmerman suspicious of trayvon martin. did george zimmerman fear for his life rightly or wrongly? but did he have that fear in his mind? those are all things that are very difficult to try to determine in a court of law, you know? >> well, you know, if you're going to look at it in a very literal sense of reading someone's mind it's difficult 37 but when you look at all of the other evidence, it's less difficult.
for example, you have two interestingly corroborating pieces of information. number one thing, anderson, you have the 911 call by george zimmerman in which the police ask, are you following him? or he admits that he's following. they say, don't follow him. then you have the girlfriend who gives an account that seems to actually corroborate that 911 tape. the girlfriend says this guy's following me and why does he keep following me and, look, he's tailing me again. and when you put these two things together and apparently in the 911 tape, george zimmerman admits he was following trayvon martin. so now you have two pieces of evidence that corroborate each other showing that george zimmerman was very likely the attacker, was likely the provocateur. and under the law you are not allowed to provoke an attack and then claim self-defense. in california at least, if you do provoke a fight, you cannot use self-defense until you have retreated and given up and tried to cat am matters and said
you're going to lay down arms and not going to fight, and the other person then launches an attack. this is not what happened here according to anyone's account. including george zimmerman's. george zimmerman is saying that trayvon martin attacked him but none of the evidence seems to indicate that trayvon martin was the initiator. all of it seems to go -- all of it, put together, not little pieces -- seems to go to the fact that george zimmerman was the initiator. >> we see george zimmerman in handcuffs. does that indicate that was he arrested? >> yes, he's in a state of arrest. that's correct. but interestingly enough, the state of arrest occurs not just when you're in handcuffs, but when the law enforcement officer deprives you of your right of free movement, you're under arrest. the thing i want to mention that is likely relevant in this case, deals with the distance that the weapon was discharged from trayvon martin. in other words, if a struggle ensued and the weapon is pressed up against the body of the individual who is shooting is burn marks. forensics can prove unequivocally the distance in which a weapon was discharged from a person. >> and the angle of the bodies at the time that the weapon was discharged as well.
>> absolutely. and that's part of the information that i'm curious why the police department hasn't been a little more forthcoming with. i'm curious to know how far he was when the weapon was fired. >> jose, a viewer sent something in to us about a florida statute. 776-032, says expressly prohibits police from arresting someone who had a reasonable fear of imminent death or great bodily harm. police may investigate but the agency may not place that person -- arrest that person without probable cause. is that true? do you know about that? >> well, obviously every arrest has to be -- they have to have probable cause. that's a huge part of what's going on here. you have a law enforcement agency and a state attorney that has established that they don't have enough evidence to reach the level of probable cause. how in the world are you going to get to beyond a reasonable doubt in a situation that happened probably under 60 seconds. >> but if they've arrested him there, they felt they had probable cause to arrest him, no?
>> they had enough probable cause to detain him. there is no such thing as unarrest for certain instances. but in this case they had enough to detain him, investigate it further and at the end of the day after they had investigated all they could at that moment, they made the determination that they did not have probable cause. and what's interesting here, law enforcement doesn't need to call a prosecutor to make an arrest in this situation. they felt very uneasy that they were actually were going to release him and to just cover a cya type of situation. they had someone second off on it which was an actual prosecutor on call. so i think not only did they make a decision after thoroughly analyzing it, you -- they went ahead and got a second opinion. now you have political pressure, the president speaking about the case and you have the governor pulling the prosecutor off the case and putting on a special
prosecution, i just don't see a conviction down the line here. i really don't. and to touch on something marcia said earlier, i distinctly remember hearing on the 911 tape george zimmerman saying, he's now walking towards me and he looks like he has something around his waistband. so there's some conflicting stories here. >> yeah, there's definitely -- >> either way you look at it. so it's really -- we're microanalyzing this, but, remember, this is a decision george zimmerman had to make in a split second and to go back and second guess it, it's a luxury that mr. zimmerman didn't have. >> some say it's a decision he chose to make by following trayvon martin if in fact that's what he did. again, a lot of the facts simply aren't known. jose baez, appreciate you being on, marcia clark and lou palumbo. a lot more happening around the world tonight to cover, including the syrian government's broken promises to stop killing its own people.
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how many have to die before the united states will take a leadership role in trying to end the mass slaughter taking place in syria. the people of syria need to know that we in america are on their side. it matters to them. it matters to them to know that we are on their side and we are willing to assist him. >> we'll talk to senator mccain in a moment. he and some of the colleagues are calling on the obama administration to help speed the flow of weapons to syria for the opposition forces. today like every day, it was deadly dangerous to be a civilian in syria. the video purports to show a sniper attack on protesters in aleppo. the marchers got to the intersection and gunmen on the rooftops trned it into a killing
den 37 we don't know who are dead or wounded. the opposition says at least 26 people were killed today all across syria. upwards of 9,000 according to the u.n. since the upraising began a year ago. shelling and gun fire reported today in aleppo, in daraa, and homs. we should point out here that only yesterday the assad regime accepted a peace plan that included a cease-fire. not only is assad breaking his commitment today he was already making a mochrie of it on day one. the same day that he toured the neighborhood in homs, the same forces under his control were shelling other parts of the city. stopping only briefly while propaganda visit played out. senator john mccain has seen the videos. he says he's seen enough. we spoke to him earlier tonight. senator mccain, you were on this program three weeks ago calling for the united states in cooperation with the international community to have air strikes against the bashar regime and now you're asking
congress to condemn syria and push the white house to take concrete action to support the opposition. do you have any optimism that your resolution is actually going to have an impact? >> well, i hope so, anderson. and previous experience in bosnia, kosovo, libya, that with enough pressure that perhaps the united states and other countries will act in an effective fashion. but since you and i talked three weeks ago, several those more syrians have been massacred, slaughtered, women raped, children maimed by this incredibly cruel and barbaric regime. so i think we will get some progress but unfortunately i don't know how many thousands more have to die before we do act. >> yesterday the assad regime say they accepted the six-point peace plan. there have been so many laws by this regime, so many red
herrings and diplomatic feints. they say one thing and doing something else on the ground. do you have any belief that the regime will live up to their end of the bargain this time? >> i do not. and by the way, they made the same commitment to the u.n. a couple months ago and didn't do it. since kofi annan's announcement that they had accepted the proposal, they even crossed over into lebanon and killed some more people. look, there's nothing that you or i or the world would love to see but a cease-fire, humanitarian assistance. and by the way, i know the u.n. plan does not call for bashar alt assad to step down. that has been the position for the united states and literally every other nation. but the point is so far there has been no sign that there has been any adherence to that at all. and finally can i say that when kofi annan says that we have to have this agreement because they don't want to militarize the
situation, that was his words, where has he been? >> it's well beyond that point. >> absolutely. >> two other quick questions. one of syria's key allies is russia. you're critical of the russian government on multiple fronts. you've also criticized president obama's off-mic comments to russia's president this week about president obama having more flexibility if he's re-elected. that's what he said off mic. you say that the president is playing fast and loose with national security. that's a tough charge. do you really think the president is putting politics over american safety? >> well, he referred specifically to a political aspect of his presidency, and that is re-election. he said that he's going to be, quote, more flexible. no one could interpret that in any way except to say that he would be willing to compromise from the position that the united states of america has
adhered to through several administrations. and the way he reached out to sort of show president medvedev that he's going to -- you know, wink, wink, nod, nod. and then, of course, medvedev says that he will pass that on to vladimir and then interfering in american politics and decides to criticize governor romney. so, look, missile defense is as important part and a cornerstone of american national security policy. there's no reason to be flexible any more than the present policy which has been that of several administrations, both democrat and republican. >> one political question. i know you voted against the president's health care bill but there's also no love lost between you and the supreme court. they overturned a key part of your campaign finance bill. you call their actions on that a combination of arrogance, naivety and stupidity.
the feeling of a lot of legal analysts seems to be that they toss out the mandate portion of health reform. would you welcome that? and if that were to happen, could it actually end up working against republicans, giving them one less thing to run on in the fall? >> i don't think so, anderson. first of all, i'm not sure as some people seem to be that by the nature of the questioning that means a supreme court justice is going to take one side or the other. you know that they like to ask provocative questions and they should. so i'm not -- i don't share the confidence yet that some do. second of all, i think that this was one of the signature legislative accomplishments of the obama administration. and we argued that it was unconstitutional at the time. so if that's substantiated by the united states supreme court, i don't see how that could possibly help the president politically.
i've seen a number of his minions spinning it the other way but i just don't see that. >> senator mccain, thank you for your time, sir. >> thanks for having me. in other news, a school in montana is facing serious allegations of abuse. its religious status exempts it from licensing requirements and therefore state oversight. and some say that puts students in danger much and hurtle us all into space, which would render retirement planning unnecessary. but say the sun rises on december 22nd and you still need to retire, td ameritrade's investment consultants can help you build a plan that fits your life. we'll even throw in up to $600 when you open a new account or roll over an old 401(k). so who's in control now, mayans?
montana. it's the latest installment of our "ungodley discipline" series. the school has been operating for decades beyond the state authorities. it's all perfectly legal but the question is, is the lack of oversight safe for the students? we'll let you decide. here's part two of gary tuchman's investigation. >> good for you. >> reporter: bob larsson is a christian preacher and founder of the pinehaven children's ranch in northwestern montana. >> i was raised that way, i don't know if you were. clean up your plate. don't waste anything. >> reporter: there are about 40 children and teenagers at the ranch right now. some have troubled pasts, others have troubled families. >> and they know when they come, they sign a form of acceptance for coming. that says, i understand this is a christian program. i do believe in god. i believe jesus is the son of god and the bible is the word of god and i have no objection to being taught along those lines. >> reporter: but many former
students have objections to what they recall as physical abuse at the ranch. >> choking was to be expected at some point. the nerves under my chin, when i went to the marine corps, were dead. >> reporter: a former student says one of bob larson's employees -- >> picked me up under this section of my throat here, and lifted me up and slammed me down on the kitchen table. and basically held me down and told me that i was a drug addict and i was never going to amount to anything. >> reporter: some former employees of the ranch say they witnessed abuse. >> i know it caused extreme pain because the kids were wrenching and screaming because of the pain of what had happened. >> reporter: bob larson says satan is behind the more than one dozen or so teachers and students we've referred to that have alleged abuse.
>> christ was not perfect. i know i'm not perfect. and the bible says you can expect this to happen. >> reporter: some of them accused is long-time employee and house employee, ned kent. some of the kids who are now adults tell us that you used to choke them. >> that's totally false. >> reporter: what is it that you did to them? >> used pressure points to restrain them but -- >> what does that mean? >> you have places on your body where nerve endings are close. >> reporter: show me on my body. >> right here. show me on my -- >> right there. >> reporter: ned claims he does not do it anymore but who are the authorities who are responsible for checking out such allegations? let's tell you a little bit more about pinehaven christian children's ranch. it's unregulated, unlicensed, unaccredited, teachers uncertified by the state of montana. the state is required to oversee public and private schools, but not religious schools. so who oversees pinehaven, pinehaven oversees pinehaven. who is responsible to make sure
that the teachers are good, the counselors are good and your kids behave? >> i am. >> reporter: he says he has it licensed out of state but not in montana which is one of many states where the government has no oversight of religious schools. the montana legislature considered a bill to require religious school oversight. but this former state legislator fought the attempt to regulate pinehaven. >> the truth is, i did not know the breadth and depth of what was going on. >> reporter: but now she's trying to get the legislature to reverse that vote because she believes pinehaven has indeed abused children. >> that doesn't sound very christian to me. >> reporter: bob larsson denies abuse of his students, but acknowledge unpleasant problems in the past. a former employee was accused of raping two underaged students. he pled guilty and went to prison. could trained and licensed staff have spotted clues in that
teacher's behavior? could they have helped prevent or deal with other horrifying situations, such as this one? james mason says he was sodomized by a fellow student. >> i was raped. i've never told anybody that. he threatened me with fencing pliers to my throat and testicles if i were to ever tell anybody. >> reporter: this is a former student who says he was also raped by a former pinehaven student. >> i started cutting myself. after that i stole some wire from the shop we were working in, and cut my inner thighs. that was the only place it wouldn't show where nobody would see it. i just cut and cut and cut because it's the only thing -- pain -- physical pain felt better than the mental pain that i was going through. >> reporter: two years ago, a sheriff's office detective in lake county, montana, investigated abuse allegations against pinehaven. no charges were filed but the case files indicate one alleged
victim was interviewed. we talked to the detective's boss, sheriff jay doyle. he was elected sheriff after the case was closed. >> it can be reopened. there are alleged victims out there that may or may not have come forward. if they wish to come forward and report a crime, we look into it. >> reporter: what will be wrong if the state of montana looked over this school? >> because it is an arm of the church, it would be unconstitutional. >> do you see it would make some people breathe easier, perhaps some parents, knowing that -- >> they can send their kids some where else,ny don't have to send them here. >> gary joins us now. i mean, he's correct. parents don't have to send their kids there. it's not really a great defense, though. >> right. there is -- it is a real statement. it's true. but there are certainly kids we talked to during this investigation, who say while they were there, they were never uncensored. they were not allowed to make
phone calls to their parents describing what was happening. also there's a woman we talked to who has a child there today and this woman want her child out of pinehaven. that's the subject of part three of our investigation, and i want to show a snippet of that right now. >> reporter: paula bowen says without her permission her daughter cassie was whisked away more than 1,800 miles to rural montana, to the pinehaven christian children's ranch. that's where we met her. >> reporter: what's your name? >> cassie. >> reporter: where are you from? she says she wants her daughter home but cassie is not being allowed to leave. >> so why isn't she being allowed to leave? >> it's a really unusual story, but basically a true ant officer in their community in illinois, recommended to a judge that kasi go to montana much and that truant officer, he tells us this, he sent 29 children over the years from that small area in illinois to montana. so basically that small town in illinois is a pipeline to pinehaven. >> fascinating story. we'll look at that more tomorrow night. gary, appreciate that.
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passengers said he was banging on the cockpit door and shouting about jesus, 9/11 and terrorists before he was subdued. the airline says he has been suspended and is getting medical treatment. he could face prison time on charges of interfering with a flight crew. there's already a fight over tim tebow going to the new york jets. nike is selling reebok for selling jets merchandise with tebow's name on it. nike says they're the only company allowed to use his name on clothing. and how many planets have the potential to support life? you want to guess the number, anderson? tens of billions. back to you. the mega millions jackpot is up to 500 million dollars now. but don't bother playing, because we're sure we'll will it. "the ridiculist" is up next.
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time now for "the ridiculist" and tonight we're adding the mega millions lottery. because clearly, that thing is rigged. it's the only logical conclusion given the fact that we did not win last night. that's right. like so many other people in the 42 states where you can play mega millions, the 360 staff caught a ripping case of lottery fever. we pooled our money to buy a whole mess of tickets for the $363 million jackpot. there were a few hold outs, that person who reminds everyone they have a better chance of being killed in a vending machine accident. but almost all of us chipped in on it.
for the record, i put in $10, $5 for me and five for isha. i'd ask for it back but i don't want a pocket full of pens or schillings or half penny or bob or whatever they have over there. i don't want to get paid in bangers and mash coupons. the point is, somehow we did not win the mega millions jackpot. nobody did, actually. now it's up to $500 million for friday's drawing. i don't know if we'll play again. we're all frankly still reeling from the shock and disappointment. i felt really good about our chances. technically, yes, you are more likely to die due to melting pajamas. we lose more produce hes that way. >> you have to be in it to win it. >> you're in it how many times some. >> 23. >> i hope somebody that we need wins the money. >> this is a lucky store. >> it's early retirement. >> it's more money than you can spend and you can even imagine. >> see, none of those people won either. but it could be worse. you could have thought that you won the millions and then found
out it was a big mistake. that's what happened to hundreds of people who played in denmark, including this guy. 300 people were told they won $50 billion and then they got an e-mail saying you actually only got 50 bucks. the lottery blames human error. they might have sent those people an e-mail that said, easy come, easy go. then just a gigantic clip art middle finger. what is it that draws us to the lottery? i mean, the odds of winning the mega millions are about 576 million to one? you have a better chance of becoming a professional athlete or president of the united states or a saint. but it's all about dreaming. it's about optimism in the face of mathematical imobability. i never did good in math anyway. you have a better chance of seeing a ufo today. i don't mean ever, i mean today than winning the mega millions. but with a record breaking $550 million, most people don't want to take that risk of splashing around in a sad little puddle