tv Anderson Cooper 360 CNN November 14, 2012 10:00pm-11:00pm EST
tomorrow night, i'll talk to senator john mccain with his battle with president obama over benghazi. that's all for us. "ac 360" starts now. >> good evening. 10:00 on the east coast. we begin tonight looking for facts not offering opinions or trying to play favorites. not supporting democrats or republicans. you can find that on plenty of other cable channels. just finding the truth, finding the facts.
tonight the focus on what played out in washington today. two foes back at it again. the battle over benghazi, the attack that killed four american. senator mccain has maintained either white house negligence or a cover up. he took it a step further and said that he would try to block any effort to promote ms. rice to secretary of state, should hillary clinton leave that post. president obama took the opportunity to fire back directly at the senator. >> if senator mccain and others want to go after somebody, they should go after me. and i'm happy to have that discussion with them. but for them to go after the u.n. ambassador, who had nothing to do with benghazi and was simply making a presentation based on intelligence that she
had received, and to besmirch her reputation, is outrageous. >> senator mccain heard that remark and took to the floor of the u.s. senate 73 minutes later to respond. mr. president, four brave americans died. it has now been eight weeks and the american people have received nothing but contradictory statements from all levels of our government. this president and this administration has either been guilty of colossal incompetence, or engaged in a coverup, neither of which are acceptable to the american people. >> keeping then honest, more than two months after the attack on benghazi there, are still some serious questions about the timeline of the events and unanswered kwis in the days and
weeks that followed. specifically, why didn't the president call it an act of terrorism the president said it was quote too early to know exactly how this came about. or during an appearance on "the view" on the 25th. when asked, the president said they were still doing an investigation. how the president described it five days after the attacks. >> putting together the best information we have, is the current assessment is that what happened in benghazi was initially a spontaneous reaction to what happened in cairo. almost a copycat of the demonstrations against our facility in cairo, which were prompted, of course, by the video. >> ambassador rice blaming the killings on that hateful anti muslim video. that turned out to be wrong. some question senator mccain is asking that he might get answers to this. as for holding up ms. rice's nomination of secretary of state
over this. key people in washington are tripped up on false intelligence in the past. people like condoleeza rice. who as national security adviser back in 2003, made the case for war in iraq, insisting that saddam hussein had weapons of mass destruction. >> it is time to stop the deceit and time to stop trying to deceive the world, and to offer up his weapons of mass destruction so that he can be disarmed. the overwhelming bulk of the evidence there, not about a data point here or there, but about what hussein was doing, he had weapons of mass destruction. right up to the end, saddam hussein continued to harbor ambitions to threaten the world with weapons of mass destruction and to hide his illegal weapons activities. >> no nuclear weapons, no wmd turned up in iraq. con
condoleezza rice went on to become secretary of state in the bush administration and mccain and other republican has no problem supporting her, in spite she fell for bad intelligence. >> condoleezza rice is a great american success story this is what america is all about. a young woman who grew up in a segregated part of america, where americans were not treated equally, to rise to the position of secretary of state. we should have been celebrating i believe this remarkable american success story. also, i thought that some of the remarks, and i'm not going to mention my colleague's names, i thought some of the remarks aimed at her during her hearings challenged her integrity. we can disagree on policy and we can disagree on a lot of things, but it's very clear condoleezza rice is a person of integrity, and, yes, i see this some lingering bitterness over a very tough campaign. i hope it dissipates soon. >> senator john mccain joins me now. senator, you said today you plan to do everything in your power
to block susan rice's nomination to be secretary of state if president obama nominates her. supporters say she was simply repeating the earlier assessment about the benghazi attack. a spokesperson confirmed in late september that we disseminated the information, and it was only later the intelligence assessment changed. do you not believe the dni? >> well, first of all, talking points came from the white house, not from the dni. but, second of all, it was obvious within 24 hours that the station chief from the cia said this was a terrorist attack. obvious to one and all that this was not a "spontaneous demonstration." in real time, they saw there was no demonstration. the -- ms. rice, i hope saw am -- ambassador rice i hope saw
that immediately after she spoke, the head of the libyan national assembly, the president of it, said this was an al qaeda attack. everybody knew it was an al qaeda attack, and she continued to tell the world, through all the talk shows, that that it was a "spontaneous demonstration sparked by a video." that's not competence in my view, and think she should have known and she has never yet to this -- at this point declared that she was wrong. and the president is the one who is ultimately responsible, but that is not an acceptable person in my vow to be secretary of state. >> but the dni seemed to be backing her up, saying we disseminated the intelligence to the executive branch, to members of congress. do you think they are falling on their swords, you think they didn't do that? possible they were just wrong and gave out the early assessment and faulty intelligence? >> the dni is saying one thing.
the state department -- or the other -- the cia station chief within 24 hours said it was an al qaeda affiliated attack. didn't she have this information? the white house gave the talking points, the president incredibly overtwo weeks later continued to call this a -- a spontaneous demonstration that sparked this attack, which by then he must have known was totally false. he said that to the united nations. there is a lot of things wrong here and she is part of it, and she gave deceptive information to the american people when there was clearly counterinformation that affirmed this was a terrorist attack, orchestrated by an al qaeda affiliated organization. >> supporters of ambassador rice compared her comments made to comments that condoleezza rice made in 2002 and a very public
case for the iraq war, saying saddam hussein was pursuing weapons of mass destruction, that intelligence was incorrect. when she was nominated for secretary of state, many republicans spoke out strongly for her, saying she was a success story, anyone who would challenge her is based on politics. they say there is a double standard. you say what? >> i appreciate them saying that, the fact is, four americans died. four americans died and overwhelming evidence to the contrary that this was a clearly -- clearly an al qaeda affiliated attack that murdered four americans, that didn't need to happen. there were advanced warnings that were sent on august 15th and 16th. they said that it would -- it was a case of concerted attack, they could not guarantee that they could defend the consulate. there was many warnings, previous attacks, all of that goes to the state department, and to this administration, and
our ambassador to the u.n. it raises the question what was she doing out there anyway? and she -- the american people were told, given false information when there was clearly information to counter that immediately. people don't go to spontaneous demonstrations with mortars and rocket-propelled grenades. >> i just want to push back a little bit on the condoleezza rice comments. >> sure. sure. >> thousands were killed in the war in iraq and people did not -- republicans did not hold her accountable for misleading statements she made in the runup to the war when she was being nominated for secretary of state. >> um-hum. and i respect that opinion and that view. i think these are two entirely different cases, but somebody wants to make that case and tell the american people that it was okay to go out and tell them that this was a spontaneous demonstration sparked by a hateful video, that they are qualified to be our secretary of
state, then they are entitled to that view. i'm entitled to my role of that adviheadvice and consent in thed states senate. my constitutional obligation is that i will not vote and not agree to her appointment as secretary of state. >> senator mccain, i appreciate your time, sir. thank you. >> thank you for having me on. >> all right, digging deeper, let's bring in senior congressional correspondent david bash, gloria borgen, and david gergen. what do you make of this? is there something personal or political going on perhaps? >> i have been half joking all day, that to borrow a phrase from the president, 2008 is calling and it wants its presidential campaign back. you can see and hear both -- in both men's expressions and in the tones of their voices that there is a lot going on there beneath the surface between the two that's probably not resolved from their battle of four years
ago. so that? that case, it's personal and political. it's personal for john mccain in another way to be fair and that is he knew ambassador stevens quite well. had just been visiting with him, and he feels this -- this need to avenge his death and make it right. and so he is on a mission that is definitely personal. but it is also political in another way, in that you heard from republicans during the presidential campaign. this was, that there were very frustrated that mitt romney didn't talk about this enough. they felt it was a way to get at president obama's leadership. and i talked to republicans who admit they are trying to make it an issue now. >> you saw a different president obama. >> yeah, he really pushed back on john mccain and lindsey graham and called it outrageous that they would make these charges about her, that she knowingly disseminated false information. he said look, if you have a problem, take it up with me.
in his own way, he was very testy today, and in his own way, he was saying to john mccain, you want to make this an issue, buddy? dare me to nominate her. it really sounded like in reading between the lines that this is something he's interested in doing this is a political fight that's not going to go away. one thing that struck me, the president talked about going after her, because she's "an easy target." well, what does that mean? because she's a woman, the only one out there using the information she had? it's interesting to me. i'm not quite sure what the president was talking about. >> there are so many questions about the attacks in benghazi. is it surprising that they are going after ambassador rice and not secretary clinton? >> no, i'm not surprised, and i do think underneath here, there
isn't as much confidence with susan rice. they favor john kerry as next secretary of state. they think he has the requisite experience. i don't think it has anything to do with her womanhood. it goes to confidence. this is a nasty fight. could could get very personal, it could go mondano-o-mano. it is very personal. we are trying to create a sense of bipartisanship to get this calmed down. i think the president would send some quiet elm sears up to capitol hill to see if he has the votes to avoid a filibuster. and i think she would have to do some private rounds that will help a lot perhaps in defuzzing some of this. >> a lot of talk about the impending fiscal cliff. congressional leaders headed to the white house for high-level
talks on this. did you hear anything that sounded like a compromise? >> not today. but, look this is a president that clearly feels that he's got a lot of leverage now. and while i heard that in the president today and what he was doing was essentially, and dana can talk more about this than i can, calling the republican cluf and saying one thing we all agree on is extending tax cuts for the middle class, so let's do that first. republicans believe if they do that, they would lose their leverage, but the president was basically saying, okay, guys. let's do this, and then we'll move on to the section step of the process. but i do agree with david, and by the way, i'm not saying they are picking on susan rice because she's a woman, but i do this it's an interesting turn f term of phrase by the president. i think things are heating up so quickly they better not get backed into corners they can't get out of.
>> dana, what do we expect from the meeting on friday? >> the truth of the matter is, they have to have this meeting, sit down eyeball to eyeball and discuss things where the cameras aren't there. however, we know from history, particularly recent history with this president and these congressional leaders that most of the real work is going to get done on the phone with -- in this case probably the house speaker and the president and their aids. that's the reality. this is an opening gambit and probably not much more. let's quickly put a button on this filibuster idea for susan rice, if i may. i talked to a good democratic source. i asked if she was nominated do you think you could overcome a filibuster? the answer was yes. the source said if anybody wants to watch two old white guys, speaking, of course, of graham and mccain, beat up on a black
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another keeping them honest rosht, why was president obama kept in the dark about cia director david petraeus' affair with paula broadwell until after the election. attorney general eric holder knew in late summer of at fair. that information according to the white house was never passed until months later. consider this, the director of the c.i.a. was having an extramarital affair, communicating with his mistress via an unsecure e-mail account and potentially putting national security at risk.
obama was asked about the investigation today during the news conference. >> i am withholding judgment. with respect to how the entire process surrounding general petraeus came up. we don't have all of the information yet. but i want to say that i have a lot of confidence generally in the fbi and they have a difficult job. and so i'm going to wait and see. >> the white house says there are protocols, that's the word they used, that must be followed when notifying the white house about the criminal investigation. there is a 2007 memo by then attorney general michael mukasey about notifying the white house and it states "the department will advise the white house about such criminal or civil enforcement matters only where it's important to the
performance of the president's duties and important to from a law enforcement perspective." it goes on to say "it is critically important to have frkt and expeditious communications relating national security matters, including counterterrorism and counterespionage issues." we are joined by success suz ankly and fran townsend and member of the cia's external advisory board. fran, have you been talking to sources, what have you learned about possible legal fallout? >> it's interesting, anderson. we understand that paula broadwell consented to the search of her homes, but after a discussion between her lawyers and the fbi, they decided to get a search warrant. we understand that they are reviewing documents, but based on what they've seen so far, they say that the classified material is one, not substantial, two, while it may be a technical violation, it's
not egrejous. as a result of that, the law enforcement official told me they don't expect there will be a prosecution related to the unauthorized release of classify information, but that ultimately, that's not a decision that the fbi will make. they will make a presentation, they expect to wrap up in the next few days. they may want to do a final interview of paula broadwell, they will present what they have to the justice department and it's ultimately the justice's department decision whether to prosecute or issue a declaration. basically they'll decline to prosecute. that's where they think this will go now. >> all of the talk over the last few days over who may or may not have classified information. if it turns out that no laws were broken, is all of this, the fbi resignation of petraeus basically just over some jealous e-mails? >> yeah, if you look at the
weeks just before the election, petraeus met with the fbi. he then met with his boss, the national director of intelligence, jim clapper, i'm told with a heavy heart, advised director petraeus to go ahead and submit his letter of resignation. ultimately, not accused of any wrongdoing, not accused of giving out classified information. never a serious charge against him. so ultimately, it was his decision to go ahead and offer his letter of resignation, and the letter that he issued to the employee of the cia the day he did it he made very clear. i've made mistakes, failed my family and failed you. >> fran, i guess a lot of people are baffled that president obama didn't find out about the affair and possible security concerns until long after the justice department did. the president didn't want to talk about it, but is there more clarity about why he didn't know sooner?
you point to a memo from the justice department that might have insight. >> it's interesting, anderson. the law enforcement official reminded me that the fbi director and his senior team, five mornings a week, briefed the attorney general, the deputy, and the assistant attorney general for the national security division on significant cases and the developments. they also discussed what ought to be briefed to the white house. this was one of those cases. law enforcement official didn't know when, but it was, in fact, briefed to the attorney general with the presumption that that would then be passed onto the white house consistent with the memo you read at the top of the segment. obviously, we don't know what happened. but under that memo the right path would have been from the justice department, to the attorney general to the white house counselor or the deputy there. clearly that didn't happen. when the president talks about the fbi has a protocol, from the fbi's perspective, they followed it, but clearly it didn't make its way up to the president. >> still questions about why the
investigation began, whether it was appropriate for the fbi to even investigate this based on harassing e-mails. new information in the finances of jill kelley and her husband scott, the florida couple caught up in the scandal. they started a cancer charity back in 2005, shortly after they moved to tampa, they dissolved it a couple of years later and they are facing several money drops. what have you learned? >> another twisted part of the tale. public records show as jill kelley was entertaining top military brass in her backyard, she and her husband, scott del kelley, were battling a bank in court because the bank says they weren't paying their mortgage. the red brick house we've been showing on tampa's exclusive bay shore drive, purchased in 2004 for 1$1.5 million. four years later, regions bank filed to foreclose on the kell kelleys, because the bank said
they hadn't sent in a mortgage payment since september 2009. records we've seen show that they owe at least 250,000, probably more. and our search of florida records show there are at least nine other lawsuits involving money and the kelley family. >> a lot of lawsuits. what about the charity the couple began? >> it was called the dr. kelley cancer foundation. started in 2005. charity was formed according to the tax filings "conduct research into efforts to discover ways to improve the quality of life of terminally ill cancer patients. "sure sounded good. a tax return in 2008 what did it do? ray raised $158,000 in contributions. spent the same amount on expenses. no record of cancer research. no record on care for patients. a source told us those matching amounts in a charity's first
year are very unsure. they spent $43,000 on meals and entertainments, $8,000 in autos. dues and support kripgss $6,000. the rest was never explained and we have no idea how the charity raised $157,000 in the first place. it was dissolved in 2007 and dr. kelley cancer foundation never recommendationstered with the state of florida, but it retains its 501 c 3 status right now with the irs, anderson. >> it seems like every charity you look into, it's just -- it's amazing to me. any reaction on this from the kelleys? >> not really. we had a source close to the kelleys who said they didn't have enough information to respond. we reached out to the accounting firm that prepared the filing documents, a representative there said they had nothing, nothing to say. >> wow. drew.
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up close, a corner of the country that is most anti president obama place in the united states. at his press conference, the president acknowledged he certainly didn't win over every voter. >> people across this country, millions of folks who worked so hard to get us elected, but also millions of people who may not have voted for us, but are also counting on us. and we take that responsibility very seriously. >> some of the people that president obama was talking about live in king county in texas. home to just about 255 people.
more than half of them are female, vast majority are white, and they don't much like president obama. here is gear tuckman. >> what do you think of barack obama's first term? >> he ain't worth a damn. no good at all. don't agree with anything he's done. >> it's a sentiment also con here during president obama's first run for president. here in rural king county texas, only 4.9% of voters choes obama in 2008. this time, even lower, 3.4%, the lowest for any county in the country. if you could tell barack obama to do one thing, what would you tell him? t >> to resign. >> reporter: what advice would you give him for a second term? >> retire. >> reporter: king county, not only the home for barack obama's lowest vote percentage, also the county where he received the lowest total number of votes.
nationwide, the president tallied more than 62 million votes, but here in this county, he received 5 votes. that's right. just five votes. king county's population is small, but mitt romney winning 139-5, made this the president's worst showing in the u.s. we went to the girl's basketball game in guthrie high school in the county seat to ask why there is such distaste with barack obama's presidency? >> i thought he sounded more like a dictator than a president. >> reporter: we went to the local baptist church to a monthly women's club meeting and heard similar sentiments. >> any time anything goes wrong, he blames it on bush, last administration, not his fault. well, now it is his fault. >> reporter: in 2009, just after president obama inaugurated, we spent time in king county, we met charlotte mccauley. who told us -- >> i asked god that he would
help him truly connect with him so he would know what god's heart would connect with the united states of america. >> reporter: this is charlotte tod today. you told us four years ago you hoped that the lord would connect with barack obama. >> yes. >> reporter: do you think it happened? >> it doesn't appear so. >> reporter: what does it bother you the most about the first term? >> not being honest about where he was born, and different like things like that. to me, he seems dishonest. >> reporter: he said he was born in hawaii. said that a long time. i'm wondering if, a, have you heard that? if you have, why don't you believe it? >> i just don't believe anything he says. >> reporter: there are certainly people that don't believe the president about the country of his birth and question his faith. president obama is a practicing christian, but here doubts persist. what do you think barack obama
persist. what do you think he is? >> i think he's a muslim and that affected my decision to vote for him. >> reporter: back at the basketball game, it was notable more people working the concession stand than people in the county who voted for barack obama. we tried to find one of the five voters for barack obama, and we did. and all we can say it's somewhere in the wide shot of the crowd. he didn't feel comfortable with his decision to vote for the man who at least here is the most unpopular president. cnn, guthrie, texas. ahead on "360" is the mideast about to explode? a top hamas leader was murdered, and hamas says israel has opened the gates of hell. their words. seven countries took to the streets to protest economic
austerity measures. protests in spain turned violent. 74 injured and over 100 arrested. are. >> a court appearance for the man accused of murdering etan patz three decades ago. he disappeared on his way to school. pedro hernandez was officially indicted. he was arrested over the summer and police say he confessed to the murder. federal transportation safety officials want to make a collision avoidance system standard on all vehicles. the system warns drivers about impending hazards, right now, optional on vehicles. and this rare total solar ellipse. it happens when the moon passes directly in front of the sun. australia won't see another one for nearly 400 years. >> wow, cool. great pictures. military chief of hamas has been killed in one of the fearest assaults on gaza in years. the israeli defense forces posted video of the tack on youtube. armed groups are vowing to
avenge the assassination. both sides fighting a twitter war. all that ahead. as station about once a month. last time i was at a gas station was about...i would say... two months ago. i very rarely put gas in my chevy volt. i go to the gas station such a small amount that i forget how to put gas in my car. [ male announcer ] and it's not just these owners giving the volt high praise. volt received the j.d. power and associates appeal award two years in a row. ♪ [ coughs ] [ baby crying ] ♪ [ male announcer ] robitussin® liquid formula soothes your throat on contact and the active ingredient relieves your cough. robitussin®. don't suffer the coughequences™.
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israel launched a major air assault on gaza is ledding the door open to a possible ground assault as well. officials calling it a response to rocket attacks fired on gaza. we've seen this before. but this time the israeli forces is live blogging the entire thing. this is an image they tweeted announcing the death of ahmed al jabari. the ivf posted this video jabari was riding in the car circled in yellow. he had been on israel's wanted list for years this was up with of nearly three dozen attacks
launched over eight hours according to hamas. dozens were wounded. hamas has retaliated by firing more rockets into israel and firing back on twitter, warning israel has "opened the gates of hell" on itself. egypt has recalled its ambassador to israel. and the u.s. state department condemned the strikes fired from gaza and supporting israel's right to defend indianapoltself. what is the latest on the attacks and the tafailout? >> what we are seeing are more rockets coming into israel. there have been dozens of air strikes as well since the killing of ahmed al jabari, the li leader of hamas' military wing, one of the founders of hamas. one of the huge blow to hamas now. the government there in gaza.
israel is also telling us and we've just heard this from its military spokesperson, that they are bringing in reservists, that they are considering a ground war, but have not yet given the go ahead for that, but they are preparing. we know that they have been firing from the air with the air strikes, but we also thap thkno they have firing from the sea. they are firing into gaza, and according to residents in gaza, at one point, they said it seemed as if it was raining bombs in gaza. you can see some of the fires there. a big fallout. and real concern that there will be a full-scale war, something like you saw in 200 8. >> they said on twitter, we recommend that no hamas operatists, whether low level or senior leaders show their faces above ground in the days ahead.
hamas has promised a response, saying israel opened the gates of hell. >> i'm in cairo right now. what's striking from this point of view. this is the moment we've been waiting for with the new democratically elected government in cairo. we have been waiting for a crisis to come, how will this government respond? this is a government of the muslim brotherhood. they are ideological kin with hamas, there has been support for hamas for years, but at the same time, they are now deeply invested in maintaining a climate of stability. to get this country back on track and how egypt plays its cards will play a big role. egypt has, in fact, i think hamas will go out. but if egyptians are telling
hamas, we got the muslim brotherhood, and we've got to find a way out of this, with some stability intact, that's going to be a whole different outcome. >> fareed, how do you see this? >> no question, it's justified. the attacks were out of gaza by hamas, were completely -- they had gone crazy in temps of the scope, intensity, and hamas was openly taking credit for them, rather than disavowing them. the problem, netanyahu people, bibi and barack, they have a tactical approach. hitting back and trying to do this. israel has invaded gaza, and they have economically choked gaza, they have succeeded. they have overwhelming force. what is the strategy to deal with gaza? how does this help israel in its long-term strategy? how does it play out with the regional strategy where israel's relations with egypt have deteriorated. ity relations with turkey has
deteriorated. no question, it's justified. is it smart? >> real concern about regional instability. >> if you don't have egyptian cooperation, you ultimately can't control gaza. this undermines palestinian authority and undermines the claim to u.n. -- the u.n. which netanyahu might like, it shows palestinians divided. >> we know that president obama spoke to the israeli prime minister. how big of a concern should this be for the u.s.? the last thing the u.s. is wanting is to get pulled into another war. it has israel's back? >> i think this is a major concern for the u.s. like it or not, the u.s. is tied to israel in the minds of muslims around the world and so whatever happens in gaza, in the palestinian territories will have repercussions in afghanistan, pakistan, in the streets of egypt, anywhere where
the u.s. is trying to build relations and do business. >> fareed, there are quiz about the relations between israel and turkey, another u.s. ally. >> it will be interesting to see how turkey reacts. the original schism between turn kai and israel was over gaza and over the blockade of emphasgaza. will the prime minister of turkey use this as another opportunity to win domestic support at home by criticizing israel? >> thank you. a nanny accused of killing two children, stabbed to death in the bathtub in the manhattan apartment. the charges, when we continue. [ engine revs ] ♪ [ male announcer ] oh what fun it is to ride. get the mercedes-benz on your wish list at the winter event going on now -- but hurry, the offer ends soon.
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i'm susan hendricks with a 360 bulletin. mitt romney is blaming his loss on election day to obama's gifts to the young. president obama was "very generous in what he gave to those group. a grand jury has indicted yoselyn ortega in the deaths of two children, ages 6 and 2. the children's mother found them stabbed to death in the bathroom and saw the nanny stab herself with a kitchen knife. ortega is in the hospital and under police watch. skype is investigating a
not backing down when critics say, dude, maybe getting that mitt romney tattoo on your face wasn't the greatest idea you ever had. meet eric harksburg, now forever known as you know, eric, the guy with the romney logo on his face. eric says he has no regrets and thaw one entire side of his face say permanent tribute to a losing political campaign. >> i had it tattooed, it's something i believe in. you shed blood for the party. you're a republican hero. i love it. i would do it all over again in a heartbeat. i know i did all i could for my candidate and party. >> so here is how this went down. eric put some of his face space up on ebay and he would get whatever the highest bidder wanted to tattoo on his face. so he approached the local republican party on his town to see if anyone wanted to pay him to put the romney tattoo.
>> 15 gs, we'll do the side of the head. something tasteful. >> as face tattoos go, that one is rather tasteful. someone paid that guy 15,000 to get that tattoo. doesn't seem so silly. how much did you get for your face tattoo? nothing, right? i thought so. not everyone eric ic has encountered loves the tattoo. >> if romney wins, i'll get your face tattooed on my butt. >> before you get all judgy, let's face facts. not only does this guy have 135,000, he's parlaying his face tattoo into a stardom of sorts. on the david letterman top ten list, and even on jimmy kimmel live. >> how l