tv After Words CSPAN December 25, 2013 4:30am-5:31am EST
>> h ost: this is a terrific kid and engrossing book. begin by telling me why did george washington need conspiring? >> guest: thank you. he needed inspiring because he has the numbers problem and experience problem. at autopsy had 9,000 people the british had 40,000 troops. >> host: over the whole course of the war in get as much as 80,000. washington sees what happens they see the revolution
right before his eyes after the success of massachusetts. >> host: what your? >> 1776 when he really comes over. i consider success at bunker hill. they look to canada to regroup in washington knows when they come back to new york. they come back to new york city and he knows he cannot be to them so he has to use espionage a and a guerrilla warfare agent be smarter than that and to anticipate them so it is the logic that he needs a spy for sale of his own cia. then you find out he has the huge the espionage background. from the event:dash french and indian war so he tells others that this is where we meet we have to find these people to help me out.
>> host: so just to fill in the brat -- background tell us what he did in the friendships and indian war. >> guest: i did not study it extensively but he was an officer to work with the french and find out what were they thinking here or there? and he also made mistakes. he was way too aggressive as a colonel at that point and he learned from that. that is something else it is fantastic about washington. he who could do nothing wrong made mistakes agent he learned from it and he wrote it down and chronicled everything. my goal was to bring washington to live and to let average ordinary people go from this generation what they're capable of doing by looking at that generation. >> host: the british has
taken the york in the summer of 70 and 76. what is the importance of new york city in the strategic shape? >> this was educational for me that people stationary give this to my 15 year old? i grew up on long island i love history and social studies and i would just think with this be on the test? >> host: if you look at the 13 colonies of the location is the center of the new country. most of the traffic, cobbers, the wear big ships could come in or come out. then you could grow food and you could feed an army. the british army.
it is a plan to become a country they cannot do it. as long as they have control of that area. >> washington's first idea of the spy is nathan hale? tell us about that. >> guest: nathan hale wanted to see the auction in just missed bunker hill sid he comes back with washington and there was a familiarity there. i gail graduate and teacher in to he volunteers to be a spy in washington says they need volunteers. he had no experience and is extremely bright and ambitious and peerless. he was sent him over against his better instincts. as part of research would
reveal to see the point at which he would cross ended a couple of days there was a story going around about one said he was overheard asking questions somebody pretended to be sympathetic he was caught and captured a few days later he is saying to unceremoniously the debates about this location they understand that when i looked there i believe was a dress for less but there's a big black bear here stood nathan hale and where would they be next? but this is not mars but new york city. you will not be a loyalist? we will be direct. >> host: he failed because
of his experience if he is a stranger to the area. >> guest: from the northeast and does not even know l.i. period witnesses i only regret i only have one life to live for my country he may or may not have said but people noted his bravery. also the way in which he died. washington did not seem to have replaced much so it took washington one year. it's a kim one year to regroup. >> host: id what conclusions does he draw from the failure of nathan hale? >> we have to be clear of our objectives in a communique and that has to be more than one person in the way that washington can communicate with somebody familiar with the area a at dougherty york, with its present trust worthy of belief of the mission beyond
a understand sp tires and -- espionage. they had victims of pt esty of work run down every day. they did not know this would be the last day they were alive robert townsend never gets his life together afterwards. they can't have the book people ask me questions what happened next? so i started to look into his letters his older brother solomon who is a stud in he is righty letters how to get it together get out of the house. that reminds me of what we have learned with the tsd --
ptsd because the mission is not clear. >> host: who was the officer washington turns to? >> alternately -- ultimately it is benjamin tallmadge to is a roommate of nathan hale >> host: they knew each other from yale. >> guest: benjamin had shown himself as a natural leader by all indications it as the site know his 55 page biography written in 1935 was one of the most 50 -- fascinating 50 pages i had to read because he could say this is what washington was like and what he did a of i was next to him. so he got the commission and the way i i understand it.
>> host: where was benjamin from? >> i was just there and at his house, . >> host: long island? >>. >> guest: and our rural land of long island and some swampy areas near the water and benjamin tallmadge to live dry by though water everybody knew them. a at a lot of these families just knew each other because there were few a of they would stay a year and grow. he knew the area and he went back. the first copy made -- stop he bade was to abraham of what hall who was convinced it was somebody he could trust. he is the last remaining son a and the older brother had
died a and abraham was dependent upon his sisters and parents for him to be the man of the house. his dad was sickly and so was he. but his heart was in the right place. >> host: so he was a farmer. >> guest: and like others you fight the war. i have to farm. i am not happy with the stamp act but i am not ready to fight to. leave me out. but the british became so oppressive acting like thugs and crooks they would militarize the whole area to the people that were in different mobilized him and
he was doing suspicious things and he was supposed to be arrested he cannot find his way home. he gets pumped up with different activities but they do go to his house and they've beefed up his dad pretty good. he is a and older man. in front of the wife feared daughters if it is humiliating it also sends a message to woodhall as much as i despise the british i put my family through this. there were times when individuals spies say i have to lay low or want out. that was the time. i have to lay low. so others pick up the slack.
>> host: did woodhall suggested next people? >> what washington would titty was critical, i have the boat moving. and woodhall would write back. i am not much of a writer. i never thought i was a spy. i do the best i can. but to have a reason or a covers story this the then to leave it will look suspicious of that led to another famous man which was the towns and family from oyster bay and long island. >> host: what is their connection with new york city? >> guest: they had a dry goods business. i go back to the house
described the pact said as a sprawling mansion. now it looks like a rowhouse. but after ito said was found to be a spy they said stop building around here a and preserve its. he says of the brother a.m. they would say he would stay here his dad was well-respected dialogue with the sisters all into one room. now all of a sudden susceptible from the way the british are treating them and there is no where to stay. he did not like to see his dad like this respected by betty and fought to have signed a loyalist note he would be loyal to the crowd. but he was bullied into that absolutely.
of drinking and debauchery between the people so it tells and picks up stakes in and goes into the city. he is of good spy because he is intelligent and he is motivated. number three his dad was in the shipping business he knew the size and how much material was coming in and going out to. his information immediately upgraded the quality of the copper ring. washington would say that it is the code name and but culpeper was the region to mayor washington was born samuel culpeper or culper and junior and senior.
to key members of the spy ring. >> host: how do they get the information to york it out of a york and convey it back to the americans? at. >> guest: they are able to listen now i listen if fear of people talk loud and other times people say what is going on? where are we headed? great. he would go upstairs a and write a letter and go to the location in and write it in invisible ink. it was precious that john j. invented or brought to the states for off. >> host: talk about that. how did it work? >> guest: they call the sympathetic. i tried this.
imagine writing in not be able to see the letter prior. it is very confusing. >> host: it vanishes? >> guest: as you bright. you write this down and it is inside a box or of the white page or you right 76 in the middle that means go to 76 in the "journal" book the pages blank that is the message if you want to bring it to light to go to 76. jumping ahead they got more sophisticated afterwards when they said nobody goes white page to white page so right between the lines. so they went to the printing press guy who owned the does said they would take the box to right on a certain page
and they would send the message that way. the guy who would pick it up was a name of austin rover if i was to motivate anyone he is a tavern owner coverage right good odor, a farmer, print one dash printing press the people think i am not washington but kid you owned a tavern in willing to sacrifice for the cause? that is what we see from today in my humble opinion. they could get that message office and they have a bar. a tavern. my friend would pick it up. every time was perilous going through british forces many times they were drunk popping of the of very going back 55 miles giving it to a
widow who would package it up to give it to brewster. he is a captain. when he comes to life he is and the rock. he is a big strong determined to the end, but did tea is the only one without the souders name. they put six guys together with a whaleboat and he decides i will go across long island sound. picture a body of water at the plate to the cost was 26 miles. i was down there in october. freezing. 65 degrees in and it is choppy remember a word think about doing that december or
january to weave through data navy anb the aggressor to pick up messages and drop-off messages to a career. >> host: he takes them across the sound? >> guest: with five other guys on a regular basis. >> host: then he sends it to washington? >> guest: they've read it again. >> host: how do you read that the ink? >> host: you have to use the right and use it to bring it to life. there is a passage that woodhall brings it to life and his sisters yell at him meanwhile it is at stake in washington says treat this like cold we don't have much -- gold we don't have much. now people will fight to me
on this but it is our conclusion there was a woman they refer to someone that would be the extreme help to us. when she joined after the letter the intelligence picks up and it seems that she penetrated the social circles. and entrees two is the key figure very well respected and is a spy for the british eventually working with benedict arnold with the effort to change the world forever to end the '04. this will bid seems to penetrate social circles with extreme danger all around. without a shadow of a doubt that james the only employed townsend. >> host: of the first stay
with the zero women. what else do we know? >> guest: very sophisticated and comfortable with high end social circles. >> host: you don't give us her name to what we don't have it i don't think is strong but somebody to be perfectly comfortable in the higher end upper-class area. >> host: she would be going to british parties? >> guest: absolutely. she is identified in the ledgers. hey general washington i have good news. they played be number seven in and of a new york was 86 7-eleven to 86 you cannot figure it out. sheet is referred to as 355.
she is known as the lady. and we conclude sheet had to die after benedick arnold came back to new york city determined to find out the spy who would unmasks the plot so culper quit and said i am out. if he would say that he is still on i will not come back. but they would eventually come back but it seems there was a sadness i believe with another six months i could closer to name somebody then there's 27 separate historians to do this every day. why will i reach as something as insignificant to the woman is? >> host: so for now all we have is 355.
>> guest: i believe somebody else will write exactly to that is. >> host: you already mentioned james river in 10. >> guest: when i first started this project not knowing what i wanted to do with it i thought that james clearly the editor of loyalist newspaper a of a loyal to the crown. and it was part of the sons of liberty prior to the war. but at some point during the war he switched sides. he kept righty am putting help the newspaper. >> host: he pointed out in new york city it is the river in tin foil to set. guess where the newspaper went? also back to britain.
my son that captain look what he has established. look at the plans he has for the end of the war will get the maneuvers he says he will do. he would write that then get additional information and put it into the newspaper and work with them and also with 355. >> host: so he knows more than he prints. >> guest: absolutely and gives it to washington. >> host: so we have the secret six in place it in the new york city and long island. one of the things they accomplish, a give us one revelation that is crucial to one. >> guest: one of the first
big breaks is a british was bragging they sold the paper that we make our currency. laid down know we print the currency pretty rapidly if you flood the market the patriot market to or the new colonies with currency it makes the pay worthless. so the farmers were losing money and losing their farms what could be harder? if they fled the market they would dispirit the troops then they would break up the series of losses almost annihilated what i most respect about washington he says everything from this day our is new currency we change it. everything before that still works so they made the
adjustment. and townsend was directly involved. >> host: because they knew about the paper? >> word got to townshend in philadelphia the paper they are printing just like cars with a special paper it was stolen and that was the british intent. to go all the way back to woodhall to get it to washington he makes the adjustment in the house to act quickly in and he does. . .
logically did not know brewster, but would absolutely have to know rowand would help because woodhall would do to new york city bad. i was escaped before tabs instead and it kind of save the rain. so they did interact. they did go. but i find fascinating is that afterwards interact match. when there's a barbecue at the end of the war, thompson never showed good washington showed up, say, guys, i want to meet neighboring. on the hostage row when the
police not washington. the best kept to themselves. >> that's also a safety precaution. so if somebody is caught and questioned severely, he can't spill the beans. >> guest: and a day. the cia told me to read into this. i kept reading that tenet didn't know what it meant. so, they said they did that drops. if i am looking to get information to you, i might put you at these coordinates at this rock. >> host: but that is a dead drop rate here. >> guest: take that will pick it up.
>> host: we were talking about dead drops. finish that off. >> guest: yesterday about the tools of the trade. one is the cia told me what to the virginia and i did that because i want to make sure it wasn't so caught up in the story that has been blurred by. i wanted to make sure, and that could have the right path and say this is a special group and they told me they teach their guys this thing. i go how would you define that? they said you have a set location and i would tell you, go to 66 and 30 give you coordinates. when you decided it was okay to pick it up, then you would pick it up. so you're caught, i am not. that information is put in a way whether it's encrypted over the visible link is not going to get you in trouble. sedated drops all over the place. >> host: and is the change?
>> guest: john, a lot was on whittles property, which i went back to last week. the site nine houses right now. they just have this property in different areas by different senses, where he'd be up to pick up stuff dropped off by a few dobro were in able to go through his house and then cave to cave the brewster, who would row his way to washington. >> host: do you see a personality that all of the secret six shared any common traits they had? >> guest: yes. humility, pictures of some, humane because you see it different times all of them get close to cracking. we don't have his rantings except for after the war. he took a ball in the back an ack, guys, i thought i had a penchant.
i took a bullet for you guys. that's the only time we saw him complain. i see all of that. i see the humanity. i see people adjusting to reward middle of the war and that is the way they acted. they remind me to turn citizens by makes sense. i'll do the best i can with what you tell me, but i am not perfect. i'm not out for this. but i'll tell you what, i believe in the cause and i want these british out of here. i believe all of them are pretty intelligent and i think they got better as the war went on. you really get the sense that they got their gratification from within because they never got any money. i went out of my way and not vote to put robert tauzin's gravestone there. he's in the back of the barn, which are leaping into his head down. that's not the way to war heroes. >> host: this is in a, right? >> guest: it is stuck in what looks like a junkyard behind it.
this is not the way they do it in boston for the people that we know. for the stimuli that mr. john not an scum and they know he wasn't president. do you think a war hero served their would be treated better. >> host: you also say that reflects part of their temper and. so there's something quiet about these people are willing to be in the shadow. >> guest: i use the term admirable. they don't want the credit, but they know from within your doing something special and the cause was worth the while. >> host: you told us how they frustrated the british plot to counterfeit our money and drive inflation even higher than it is dirty going. they also frustrated an attack on the french fleet. tell us about that. >> guest: washington worried that the british knew they were
on their way. he quickly activates the rain again after they were down for a little while. thompson finds out pretty quickly. this is after the death of 355 we believe. they know because they mobilize. they know exactly what they're going to do. the go to rhode island and take out the french before they can get their planned lakes. they're going to hit them right away. >> host: the french fleet is coming to rhode island to newport? >> guest: yes, to newport. that would be the whole french navy. but there's an excellent chance the french retake classes and go i'm not into this anyway. we probably can't suffer like this. so washington again you with being it's time to block. he sent somebody into an area which she does there is
resistance. he takes them off from the house and go win, a satchel comes up intentionally. and not satchel of information that washington is going to attack. but these officers think that washington just that the battle plan for washington's intention not to attack. look what i just found from a guy who looks unseemly and got away. they said pull the troops back. they pulled the british troops back. they don't want to be the general to lose new york. they did nothing we fortified if he is capable of doing this. they had to worry. so they pulled them back. the french land is no problem. direct link. did he not like that to act debate the ring because they know they'll try to stop them before they come ashore. all washington. use these guys and their information.
>> host: so does the reign of ptolemy had to do some game. he's got cannons. but my i understand you would know first. he had to let them see that they got the secret plans in order to stop it. so it's pretty genius. >> host: did british were no slouch as that themselves. they mention a great bottom the other side. tell us how that develops. >> host: arnold we understand reached out. he gave to major andre. >> host: arnold is? >> guest: benedict arnold is a general in the american army. he said quite a bit of success. but it almost seems to be look at having a steady income he seems to be a bit of an arrogant guy who always feels he's got a persecution complex. u.s. feels as though he's getting the short end of the
stick. he used his own money, has to get reimbursed. ghost philadelphia, has the command, and i've been relatively cocky about it, alienated midsummer officers. he finally says listen, if you're not going to get me washington's deal, i'm going to take west point. so we went up to west point and he stood there. he was supposed to make a former attack for us. these guys don't have a shot and were going to come to your site. andré knows about it. andré wants to rendezvous. >> host: major andre is located in new york city. major andre is a guy with the ladies like and even a lot of americans lay, who was very gregarious. he was someone evidently good-looking guy and he also was in charge of their espionage. his code name was john bolton. john andersen.
the goal was to rendezvous with benedict arnold, pretend to put up a fight. in the end, we overrun and looks like taking captive. the war is over. there's also a school of thought this seems logical that washington not only did he want to give away west point, but pretend like he didn't want to give away west point, but hanover washington as well. resentment for the guy who got the commission he wanted to got the respect he always thought. >> host: the british to get commander-in-chief of the american army and the key to the hudson river. >> guest: and the number one most fortified base in the country. >> host: antennas work because there is a general in their midst of an officer of them is looking to switch sides. we believe 355 at the most role
to play but infiltrated the social surfers about overhearing thoughts come a hearing major andre talk. all of a sudden, a tour movie. it looks like today could send up intersect, who was rendezvous it was benedict arnold and put in their plan in motion to turn over west point. major andre get stopped. as soon as we hear about this arrest, he's brought to a local camp. >> host: he stopped behind american lines, american territory. he's in disguise. >> guest: absolutely. at the deli this guy looked like he just got out of the shower. he didn't look like the guy he was just to be. this guy's got to have money. he had no money on him really. these two cowboy like forest ranger americans who were just not in the military. they stopped him.
they're loyal to us. for the most part, they're looking for a quick score. will shake this guy down. he had the money with him. come back with me. everything will be taking care of. something about his explanation that through him. talmage is on the hunt for this officer think tips off. they bring to a local camp. as i write in the book he seems to walk with perfect style and grace. this guy is not who we think he is. when talmage arrives, benedict arnold. got this guy. you probably want to did. i think it's a british officer. >> host: he's the commanding officer is not? >> guest: talmage arrives and says you're not giving him to anybody. keep them here. i want to talk to him. it doesn't take long to find out he's a british officer.
and his is a letter he was handing to arnold. arnold hears about the arrest. by the time they get to west point, benedict arnold does have got to get out of here, get out. you could trace every back to to the ring. how much new how to approach we was. it still exists today and he has an idea. he never thinks he's going to get handing killed. the kind of agree after beating each other up for a few years. so talmage ironically is the man who watched his baby perhaps, but more than likely didn't know he was hanged for being a spy. andré is writing letters and telling washing to, okay, i've got an officer here. i've got one officer in exchange for you and its benedict arnold, general clinton is controlling new york. i can't give up in the next
arnold. and there he is. he goes -- >> host: he asks talmage at one point what is going to become of me? >> guest: he thought of a firing squad. he thought the firing squad was becoming of an officer if you assume that this life. no, i think we're going to hate you. according to talmage in his bio as well as what we found in our book, there wasn't a dry eye in the place. he hanged because he was on the wrong side of the war. >> host: what did the british think of their mail acquisition? >> guest: they liked it. if you ask me at the end would happen to despise, has to do with that answer. back and even on the right side if you're a spy come you relatively look down on a judge, even if your information is viable. washington just too highly.
but the average person out it was not something to be lauded. by this time the momentum would eventually shift and he's bursting when it got to new york city to look for this bias. because i know someone found out about this. who are they? he rounded up 55 amongst many others in a rapid rate of the region. >> host: if he did capture her, what would've become of her? >> guest: she went on a prison ship, the barge is essentially a raft. >> host: describe those. >> guest: they are brutal. you die of dysentery there or whatever diseases running through. very little food. they just want these people off land and not to be a burden and not to fear than getting out. people are basically colonies prison ships and die. that name could be her, but again, i don't want to hurt the
credibility of a book by making a leap but not comfortable with. don aker and i just said let's leave at 355. backed your original question, to show you what antiquity washington have come under his interactions benedict arnold to switch sides, join him. number two, trying to convince washington, can you let me know who they are? they do such great work. you know what he really wanted? he wanted to know who they are. before he got caught. he knew how to despise her. washington kept its promise. i'll never reveal who you are or where you are. that is my promise. >> guest: >> host: this is but washington still thinks the world of benedict arnold. excellent officer. >> guest: talmage in washington would not give up the names. again, integrity matters. this is george washington living up to the hype.
why he's in enough. little things like that. he just seems to show integrity. >> host: washington liked this work, wouldn't you say? ran an aspiring? >> guest: i think you got it. >> host: what does that tell us about him? >> guest: he is a plotter, planner, resourceful. heath miller. there's something about him that likes to secrecy. i could not give you a psychological profile in washington. i will say that he appreciates the effort it takes to get it. also she knows he absolutely needed because it's straight up against the british -- that are not to finish that sentence. does not work. he loved the process of acquiring it. the process of acquiring it because it took almost all the attributes he had if you mention
resourcefulness, intellect, out inking the other guy, all those things he can reject another people. readers love when people say teachout the success. almost as much as if they had themselves. so i can imagine him see this rain coming together and the information, we'll bushlike since the party at times give them better stuff and more stuff that better times than more ache in a timely fashion as he sees the ring search function so proficiently. i imagine he has a tremendous feeling of pride. what do you think? >> host: clearly he was doing this when he was a young man and then he does and the second for the american revolution. so he is the most honest, upright figure in the whole revolution, but there's also a part of them that likes the shadows or at least running people who are in the shadows. >> host:
>> guest: how about this? he'll do anything to win. they'll have to kill me, which seems to have been impossible by the way. though have to kill me because i will keep coming up with my plan dnc to outthink a maneuver you. >> host: how does the secret six react with mary suddenly five? with 355 gets caught. >> guest: he went down for a while. one of the letter talks about what josé and wash tuesday, if coker junior what do this, i need you to go to the city. he needs to be destroyed. robert thompson seems to be taken at the heart of thought about that. considering we didn't know for sure brewington was a spy, i don't get his emotional state. they were devastated. they went under and they were also at the same time seemed to have left the prey. benedict arnold was on the hunt
and they knew they couldn't show their faces. dignity could be suspect did and remotely suspected they were scooped up because there's no code of justice are taken for the wrong reason. that's another reason i conclude she absolutely was there, absently took part in played a vital role in absolutely was killed. >> host: thompson never married? >> guest: never married. as a kid robert junior and possibly some of the young adult books written say she had his baby, died in prison ship. but there's no evidence of that. it seemed as though robert junior's for the oyster bay people ranked, the most logical thing is one of robbers older brothers died at a young age and not critters than his kid that he raised because he stayed in the house. he didn't really amount to much if you are -- if you judge people by the financial success in business.
he seems to have been significantly damaged by the war. he was en route to be a successful businessman. being successful after the war, he found a letter from solomon saint kaman, robert, pick it up. you have so much going for you. you get engaged again. >> when the ring goes down, holland is to stay down? >> guest: i believe it stays down because when the three engaged in washington has to know that the french are coming and. so it herscher caucus out to reactivate the rain and in the latter, washington says junior cannot be -- he cannot be poked and prodded come here cannot do it. you have to find a way. we need this information
quickly. it sometimes took a week in a house, sometimes two weeks. >> host: that is a week and a half and could in the information in new york to getting it back to george washington. >> if you look at it and say straightening out and say this is what we need we should use and give it to you that brewster who would go off. >> host: now, the peace treaty is not long after the war ends. but when did the british finally leave your? >> guest: 1783. in the war was over since 81. this is where the thomas burg -- i want make this clear. i want to does not want other people have done and martin pennypacker was the one who found out who robert townsend lies when they wrote the biography and george washington's grandson i love it.
let's make this book better, the story richer and more accurate. so your question was, what is it going to take to get your back? don't they know they lost the word yorktown? they're not. washington one day since records to new york. i need to to secure some operatives that have been of extreme health risk. questioning goes, permission granted. under the american psyche takes his horse into manhattan and secures his guys. again, shows you how good they were. he believes he would be looked at his listed if it may be killed or maimed or search me her. washington wrote it and officially became an american city. they left but that essay. do i really need to go steamroll new york now? after we technically offended the word yorktown?
they'll leave soon. when he made it clear for coming and coming they had dinner, hung out in two or three days later started pulling out. they went to canada and then washington as he put in the book it was good in 1793. and the biography and talks about how a soldier while for the promotion and now yes everybody to come up and touch his hand. i expected this to be perhaps to the mile or two miles right there. he looks the same judging by the photos. get on a barge and go home. poster that's the famous and not the history books.
>> guest: one of the things we are proud of his george washington pastor or church pastor washington wrote one of the first people he saw when he got into new york city was james rivington and a hurt gold changing hands. why would present washington -- general washington visit the editor, writer of his loyalist newspaper? the royal gazette, unless of course i was his great-grandson race, he was able to get a needle close, the british naval cozy for the battle of yorktown and rockets into france, the french navy to nurture less over the british still haven't figured out why they lost and were successful. so if you're that have become a right to rivington and that's exactly what he did. he'd reemerge out. best part of the mystery of this.
when i first started researching mass, they did not know he how you, but the more i researched it, he did higher the drygoods owner, which would help robert townsend and more intelligent. it makes total sense the metal were saw how brutal the british were new york city and the thugs they were in everything going on. i'm on the wrong side. i'm not going to be enough to say it. >> host: did washington meet any of the other secret six when it comes back into the city? >> guest: when i sat down with a local houstonians and experts, the thing that came to mind is definitely austin row. he said austin rose tavern. more than likely logically, yes. absolutely they've met before. the answer is yes. what i wanted to find out is
robert thompson, did he meet robert thompson, the tortured soul who is forced into the british enforcers and in many respects. we can't identity as he did. however, his dad was above the page should they went to jail because of that. it would make sense to me at when he would die, you might knock on the door because the houses here. hewitt to visit the promenade area. the towns and houses here. three blocks away. it might be wise to say he might go say hi to samuel thompson at one point he might have said colbert junior. i do know that moment and i've yet to have anybody revealed there was that moment. ironically, teddy roosevelt is diagonally across any love this stuff. so he did not know there's a patriot in his midst like robert thompson. there is an area called the
landing, where there's nothing but water and that's the local legend worried that the house here, the planting here could easily have been done. robert is a master keeping things secret. he would never tell. it seems to be a strong rumor. if we couldn't prove it, we didn't write it. >> host: today would we say that robert towne and mr. press? all his life. even the loss of 355 and stress of the war, just kind of his personality. >> guest: he's usually low-key guy, humble guy is a smart, bright guy. after the war when it trouble reconciling what he did in the war because he was a spy which according to that time wasn't looked up to as we've been over a few times. they be tough reconciling now. logically i had a hard time living up to his younger brothers of older brothers who were does the stars.
>> host: a greater started all of them. >> guest: in the end. >> host: what is the lesson you like modern american readers? >> guest: how special america was at that time. much as patrick henry, paul revere, sam adams, george washington benjamin franklin. everyday americans fighting for the cause they believed in that one at no credit, wanted no applause, but wanted to be respected. that is what they believe. just because the name is not forefront in her social studies class, doesn't mean they were vitally import. >> host: okay, brian kilmeade, terrific book. >> guest: thank you for your interest. appreciated. >> host: take care. >> that was "after words" which authors of the latest not fiction books are reviewed by journalists, public policy makers, legislators and others familiar with the material.