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tv   Book Discussion on The Taliban Revival  CSPAN  August 2, 2014 1:15pm-2:49pm EDT

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individuals get up and leave the house this is the mentality you have to think of today, they understood full well that they might not come back home again. and when they leave their families and kiss them in the morning, that they may be the last time they see them, yet the still do it day in and day out, and for the field secretary that is something that he is constantly that kind of fire, that kind of environment. it was much more difficult for evers after he gave his national -- his televised address in 1963 because prior to that he has to go in many instances undercould have. you have to dress as a sharecropper, or go in the needle of feeling though night to talk to people where they can't be seen by whites in the area. so it's very difficult. after he gave his televised address, then everybody knows what he looks like so it makes it more difficult to go
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incognito. so, it was always difficult and was alwaysk4v>tj= trying but es understood that going in, and he would often talk about the fact that even if he was killed in the process, that would be worth it if it changed the way things were. and that's the kind of mentality that we're talking about here. and so when you start looking at the environment, when you start looking at what people are faced with, as field secretary, your job is to good into the heart of that and then you're being monitored by organizations, whether it be in white citizens council, the mississippi state sovereignty commission, also keeping an eye on everything that you're doing. everything that you're saying. as much as they can. and then they have -- this assassination occurred during the early morning hours of june 12th. june 11, kennedy had gave his presidential address dealing
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with civil rights issues, and evers had been watching that. he gets home, a little after 12, after leaving a meeting, naacp meeting as well, and so he gets home, a little after 12:00, gets out of his car, and he decides what he is going to bring in and he decides he is going to bring in the house some t-shirts with the words "jim crow must go" printed across the naacp head, and as he gets out of his car, he was shot in the back, and his family, of course, is away because they're waiting on him to get home and they hear him pull up and then they also hear the shot, and when he's hit with the bullet, he is -- this is devastating but he is strong enough to when his wife opens the door she sees that he has crawled pretty much -- it happened on his side -- he
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crawled pretty much to the door as if he is trying to come home as she remembers, and then of course the neighbors hear the shots going on, and people come out, and they see him, including his wife and children, and so this is a very emotional time because people understand now the severity of what just happened. here's an individual who had done nothing but work toward advancement of african-americans, and to bring justice to the state, and then he is shot in the back this way. and so it also kind of -- people now come together to try to bring about positive changes to all of this. but the assassination is what really, i guess, kind of places this really kind of focus in terms of the severity of what is going on here.
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>> a sense of, i guess, bittersweet, that people are happy that -- or at least relieved now that part of it was closed, and that the individual who had actually murdered medgar evers had been found guilty, but at the same time, you understand that this person had lived his life, a long life, an old man by the time he was convicted, and so he had an opportunity to see his family, he had opportunities to enjoy himself and those kinds of things that were denied evers. so when i said bittersweet,
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that's what mean. you have this kind of closure when the person is found guilty but then the person that had did the most to try to change society for the best, his life has been cut short and his family has been denied that. but more importantly, the state and the nation had been denied what he could have done. with the rest of his life. and so you had those kind of ways through it. but overall people are quite happy that justice had finally been served, at least that point. what i really want to do with the book was to not only talk about the life of medgar evers, but the situation in the larger civil rights discussion. i wanted to understand who he was and understand how he did the kind of work he tide, because i didn't want to just tell the story of an individual. i wanted to tell the story of a man, and what civil rights struggle actually meant on a
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personal, familiaral, professional level as well. i think his impactes hi really demonstrated the humanity in the humanness of self rights struggle, and -- civil rights struggle and the humanness of what it means to be a person living in a society, at whatever time and stage you're in, and what your responsibility and roles are. so i think by looking at the life of medgar evers you would see that in great and vivid detail, even though he was an individual who was very much low key. what he did spoke volumes. and people hear that message today. >> for more information on all of the cities visited by booktv's local content vehicles, go to content. we want to hear from you, tweet
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us your feedback. >> hasan abbas talks about the rush of taliban to power in afghanistan. the taliban scattered around afghanistan but eventually regrouped, and have now retaken large portions of the country. this is 90 minutes. [inaudible conversations] >> good morning, ladies and gentlemen, and welcome to this session on the resurgence of the taliban. i'm the direct director of the program. we're happy to welcome you this morning and i must tell you from
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the very beginning, this organization in -- say a few words earlier. so what this session is about is the launching of this book eye the taliban revival: violence and extremism on the poise, afghanistan frontier" this is time already ore maybe not timely. don't know. because we arrive at the end of the cycle. this cycle is a cycle of intervention in afghanistan. this is definitely not the end of the effort. all we can hope it will be the end of the conflict but unless we believe our own propaganda this is not likely to be so in the months to come. since the end of 2001, i mean, a lot of people have died in afghanistan, both afghans and people from the region. all that was made -- and where
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are we standing today? i know that the focus these days in the country is mostly about the election and what is going wrong in this election. but in this case, that which we see actually is a resurgence of the taliban in both the south and the east. what none of us can be really surprised seeing they were massive formation in all the places. the point is not whether this is the case. we know what is going on. we try know what is going only. we certainly don't know everything. the question is whether that this means that almost 30 years of war in afghanistan, of additional war in afghanistan, has served no purpose. i mean, hases the taliban been eradicated? not. does it mean the war was a
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success, definitely a different story. and this is what this book in many ways is about. how did we get to the situation that we are in now? how did we get to a situation that a movement is everybody in 2002 saw as being more or less eradicated or what was left of it was essentially residual. how is it that this movement has come back again and so on? and this is what the book is about, and i'm happy to say that this is an attempt to bring a quite objective perspective on the way things have moved, looking at different angles and this is the aspect of the book which makes in my opinion, its interest. so, this is something that is being very discussed about. the role of western policy. again, this is something we should discuss. today we tend to say, we live with the sense of mission
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accomplished. or so we would like to believe. the role of the milner decisionmaking and so on and -- military in decisionmaking. so we're delighted to welcome the author, has san abbas. and for many of you he doesn't need introduction, prefer and chair of the department of studies at the college of international security affairs near washington, dc. he is also senior adviser at the -- he previously served as a distinguished professor at columbia university and a senior adviser at the center for science and international affairs at the kennedy school of harvardant. what is most important is very -- and many of you remember his first book, "pakistan's raise." so with those records i will not
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stand between you and the speaker, and i'm pleased to come -- and ask him to please come up and present your book. >> thank you very much. thank you very much. it's a great privilege and honor to be here and to see many friends and for so many of to us be able to find time. in the beginning i also mention i'm not -- i'm really thankful to carnegie and frederick, an old friend and his words have been guiding many of us. his courageous writings were a source of inspiration for scholar, and i'm thankful to the organization here. this is a newer organization, a think tank, advocacy group, and the one group -- one different thing about this organization
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primarily pakistani americans and benefiting from the guidance of many scholars of south asia descent. many of the scholars and they are -- they believe in making pakistan a progressive state and also building the u.s., pakistan relations. so thank you very much and i wish you best of luck in your endeavours. to first give you a gist of the main arguments of my book, if i may call it that. and also talk about my recent visit, which was kind of a book tour. i landed in pakistan for about 15 days but also had an opportunity to go to iraq two days after mosul was taken away. i had the opportunity to speak to law enforcement agencies.
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and some of the things i heard and -- the linkages between the pixy tally -- the pakistani taliban and the terrorist group which claims to have built a new state. it's very interesting. some of the slogans started coming up on the streets in iraq are important language. so i talk somewhat about some of those linkages as well. first and foremost, i must add, this -- other than my academic area in the united states, great honor and privilege to have served as a police chief, a police officer in pakistan's tribal areas. this is between 1995 and 1997, and some of my ideas and talks are based upon that. and one of the understandings
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that my pusher was that greatly helped me considering the idea. they wanted it to be an economic book and have some of the idea, some of the stories, some of the ideas from the -- so i have an neck domestics from that as well -- anecdotes of that as well. so i have been in many major cities around the world but my experience of having lived with the pashtuns, who make up about 50, 70, 80% of all taliban. at the same time, i have found among the pashtun their orientation and principle is very religious. ...
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not talking about the 1970s but late 1990s. if you want the size of the machine and drinks perhaps or whatever you smoke if you want to do that, the weight it changed life, and exciting phenomena in.
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having seen them, it is very secular, only one name, you can't say that any leaders--so close to the great indian leader, the people who have gone to gandhi, they called him frontier gondi becauandhi becau secular ideas. having seen past junes up close, they are producing from the taliban. in search of that question, the second dilemma was the united states and the western world are familiar with the phrase out
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back from afghanistan. if you start thinking of the history books, you will find most books on history, not even political, focusing on a comparative study mostly in pakistan, india, and other countries, you might find -- comparing history because this is the kind of post 9/11 constant, because of the way it was streamed and focused, the focus was on these two countries but there is not enough academic study or historical treatment of the subject. you realize if i want to tell more about-tuneds --pashtun i am
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constantly mispronouncing it. so that is another element. the first thing is a 60-year-old country, our nation was built in the 1700s, very different ideas and ethnic factors played a major role in what we know today as afghanistan. it is a product of a secular movement led by all those leaders, and stop talking about the 15 most important political leader is in pakistan. you will be amazed, they were from all different backgrounds, all very secular. if you look at those 15
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proponents, different to comprehend how a state that is falling. at people, the idea is distributed in 2 different action. that is a phenomena and i tried to answer is that question how the draft had taken place. to begin and explain the context of what we are looking at. i think five major factors i would like to mention, my findings, first and foremost, need for us to understand the different ways in which the taliban and pakistan and how they were doomed in some ways. what was the genesis of these
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two organizations. i met gandhi today, the old class of the old guard of the afghan taliban seems to be open to negotiation. i will not say they have come to the best, but they are looking for opportunities to negotiate. maybe some of the other associates -- my understanding is the old taliban has lost control of the incidents taking place in afghanistan. this is the second problem with leadership, and who really believed what happened in afghanistan was something they had to fight. not necessarily taliban militants or terrorists, that
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was considered -- that is what there is room to do. that is what their tribal identity has led them to believe. with the narrative has embedded in their mind set. those people who are still fighting and in my assessment -- this is one sub sector of the taliban. maybe the company's, trying to negotiate bringing something into the mainstream but what we have seen, afghanistan, the taliban trying to take control of the fresen movement so they can direct it and somewhat towards the middle. that is my assessment of the taliban and afghanistan and they have various other groups. one operates from the pakistan
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afghanistan border and is now on the run because there is a major military operation happening. i want to explain the division between the old guard and the new taliban. the pakistani taliban. the pakistani taliban unlike the iran taliban, a few more words about that taliban. the iran taliban coordinated with the likes that never merged. there were some good studies it came out in recent years -- they had used the afghan taliban for their purposes, their financial
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needs and use al qaeda but in case of pakistani taliban, there was more of a merger that had taken place. the nature of the group, and the media, the afghan taliban, quite active on social media, the afghan taliban are also more so and pakistani taliban are far more dangerous and lethal. they moved closer and today if you ask and many experts -- you would not be able to experience the dynamics without explaining the dynamics of the pakistani taliban. that is the type of merger and proximity. that brings me to iraq. the belief that the media is on
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youtube and increasing pakistani taliban and from syria they moved into iraq. end in mozilla and parts of iran. and the pakistani taliban are interesting, and the cash to identity and from different ethnic groups in pakistan, and in a very good fashion. it is don't buy the pakistani taliban, all you see is a major terrorist attack on pakistani
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military, major attack on military headquarters, destroyed one of the most important -- or three items, the attack on the air force base and successfully attacked -- believed to have kept some of its nuclear arsenal in the system. the point is the pakistani taliban, linkages of has a law enforcement security forces behind the scenes in terms of some people, that is a much more dangerous phenomenon. if i were a security analyst by would spend more time looking at the pakistani taliban. to engage the pakistani taliban because the pakistani taliban --
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because the only way the pakistani is attempted with them was to degree. and from there point of view moved out of the afghanistan tribal area, in some part it is still a hub and moved into the mainstream pakistan and urban centers to create extremely difficult to monitor them to do anything so that is the analysis of the pakistani taliban so now coming to the academic treatment but not for very long in terms of how do we understand based on the major theories of major e shoes because the problem can be with their it is a need for law enforcement or is it about education?
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all those are very valid ideas from this perspective but to be able to tackle the challenge in which we understand before we can attempt has to go through ranked analysis which i have attempted and there are fights about those but before that a couple of anecdotes which these were partly my interviews for the book and partly some of the other experiences i had. i remember the pakistani -- returning to pakistan and served with her for a brief time in 1995-96. in 2007 she was returning to new york and i was talking to her and you would want a police
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officer, what about the security in pakistan, what could i expect in pakistan? security officials and friends focus on these issues, we almost had a consensus before this and i asked do you want me to be blunt and direct? she said absolutely. there's a way to be assassinated and she said energetically, instantaneously, i know it. i know that part. tell me something else that i need to do. i appreciate her intelligent way but she knew she was walking into a difficult trap. the pakistani taliban, her assessment was, and she was not only absolutely right at that time but a new reality, radicalization happened to take place in pakistan is not only
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consigned to the militant cast or the other area. still a minority if you give them a chance and mostly vote political parties whether it is karachi or pashtun or the national party, but having said that, and for instance the debate going on and education oil institutions, and people at the end of the day bought an islamic state so that is different. then there were a few others, hundreds of thousands of people and there was this major attack
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that evening. i was very passionate about writing something from jamestown and the next session to monitor. who tried to kill benedict koto? the former previous head of the pakistani taliban who was killed in a drone strike later on and she said she wrote back, just as a memory, and to her last night and she wrote back and in your analysis will connect and this is not -- and she wrote in this, and extreme quarter in deep in my book which she said something to the affect, i am paraphrasing, if these are the radical elements of the
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establishment, the word pakistani a town of -- establishment security forces but by and large people get different establishment, already radical elements, the islamic jihad, who tired of serving are the ones who are probably behind it. waiter ron i had the opportunity to ask this to the former chief, people criticizing the server who left the position, and mostly agreed experience talking to him at length in 2008. this was something that by the way was one of the most -- that i have been to. and the president's office and intelligence sources that headquarters by the united states, and compound as it is
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beautiful and sitting there and wind up and i asked him, i said something people say, you ask any pakistani is, and elsewhere, who can benefit, the first -- and mentioned to her at hand, very important solutions also came. didn't want to say i have some -- in the name of -- as lonely people can't get you to benefit. we were sitting on a long turntable and buys and he was in a gray suit and almost jumped in
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and immediately realized i should have framed it differently but what he said to me was anything you want, and what will happen, the same night, the conversation in this same building, the same evening, the assassination attempt today, and told her the same thing. i want to give my views that there may be some elements. but the other areas before coming in, these are these circles if you want to understand the intelligence and
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pakistani policy, and almost -- in afghanistan, most of them and i have the honor to have many of them, and i have seen them as very bright but almost 100 personals, 99 personals based on two years -- also because it supports the taliban. absolutely convinced, and what was historically done for them. and what is here only is general perceptions in pakistan is about intelligence and military, and politics of afghanistan. and hidden behind that facade,
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and some of that is true. the attempt to go into some of those extremely -- objective assessments. with these, i mean, what helps us understand what has gone wrong, this transition has taken place. in such a fashion, to conduct these very advanced attacks, the first thing taking it -- i promised to bring these attentions. what is made from outside, all
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those outside efforts in the last ten years, and this issue related to the fiber. the reality is it is linked to a proxy war. and what is coming up, india for example and afghanistan, many senior members, important members, some of them were kgb and german viewpoint about -- and afghanistan so vote -- a
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political view in proposition so when they had an opportunity, the support of the that in the context of talking about the issues. based in pakistan in pakistan, from 2001 onwards, a hero of the islamic jihad. it is a very good book that has come out. if you are interested, but this group -- this one which is an early edition, military intelligence framed as taliban, security and media which did it which means there were some groups which were terrorists in their orientation, which were not political groups but they
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never attacked pakistan despite the number of suicide bombings across pakistan, and those were framed as good taliban and this was one of them. the taliban also because they are pursuing interests in afghanistan because of the extension of the -- for some reason, some right, some wrong. there was this ethnic war in pakistan using the iran media for militants and its interests. they don't want that to happen again. they wanted to invest in afghanistan not for iran but for a historical reason. it still may be based on this perspective. in the last ten years, the muslims came to me, doing my
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studies but for the first -- the war on terror, no one or maybe it was someone, can't use the word no one, in most meetings between pakistan and the united states the issue of taliban never came up. that is a very important issue for the american intelligence to look into, why someone hasn't wanted or fixed the decisions of the taliban started to happen, just talk the taliban out of force, they are history, not history, they were operating and expanding and thinking about if there was pressure earlier on. and pakistan basically to eliminate six in 2007.
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and regional tension, what i found out in these interviews and extremely thankful for the pakistani military officers, i cannot talk about that in my official domain. this reminds me of something at the beginning for that i am seeing. not related to do my job. but i heard in pakistan from people who were working with me. the hut connie group --haqqani group, in one case i asked him, the only one allowed to mention, what i was doing in 2009 and i
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asked him why the pakistani group, and he said to you know something, we have lost hundreds of thousands of army officers. you think i can face my soldiers -- killing the pakistani army and he said i will not be able to face my soldiers. thank you very much. in 2009 he said he had no difference whatsoever on the group's which for to be saved or not to be saved. but those who realize the difference between the military operations of the pakistani military and intelligence, the pakistani intelligence office was not in secret or coordination with or cooperation with the main street and that is the main point which shows some
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insights into this issue so the haqqani group, people in pakistan, not that they were sympathetic or friendly, they were scared of them. and this is a paramilitary force, one of the generals who commanded the force, the general said to me, the frontier, the main inside difference, given specific information, they had weapons, capability, training. and a tribal area, the first
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pakistani military unit in 2004 learned from the first time and pakistani intelligence, and the main street, and maybe better. however, in the tribal area, the military, the outside force, no one could communicate, for many pashtuns, the pakistani army, americans and indians. and the first is the pakistani military arrested.
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these two points. the first point, the graveyard. they're even forget about the international forces. even about -- this is the new world. with the second effort is to the nexus.
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this is very difficult to understand. a new phenomenon, buzzword kamal actually you need to do minutes and to get as much money as you can is to grow a beard and know two or three verses. the head gear. when hand you are ready. he can claim to be a religious person. travel between two major cities. and right in the middle we have this, of course, stay there were showing. and the person sitting next to me at his own tape recorder. which was, by the way, very
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narrow minded. he starred. i can very clearly see that at least 15 could not watch the movie. no one walked up to this person, including myself. we knew exactly what he was doing. to listen to what he wanted us to here. the last 15 years. but the pakistan that i had left , i remember. and that is another change that has happened in society. and many of these criminal elements, many the coroner will
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chess' to pass unchallenged but there will not be challenged. because they will come out and say what you are out of islam. that phenomenon i think has taken root and is something very, very important. no military of the world. the major source of funding. he even islamabad h'm. ahead during. both of them were stealing from
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outside. the police chief. as informational. a chief of police. and it was 15 to 20 years before that it happened. then they said we had no clue what had happened. so capable. and this is in the case in afghanistan. everything is very new the criminal organizations that are operating. i think it suits them prodigious same in afghanistan. in one case i was told that in one area, and to no later on, it
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was not the taliban. it was a member of a construction company. he bought my girls' school. well, the taliban have done that . so i'm not trying to say that the religious angle is not there or the terror phenomenon is links to all these issues in a significant fashion. the most important one, a big fashion. in karachi, for example, they were able to honor if the school which is also a terrible phenomenon in the area. this was meant to teach you how. as the senior most police officer who was able to understand the killed in a terrorist attack.
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very, very critical issue for us to look at. the third one is the whole issue of voile the friendly estate the frontier state, of course there were able. there is no international border. but of course the united nations also identified that. and in that operate in an different fashion. able to control the, impossible. i want you to read my book and find out what the other things are. i would just conclude with two ideas. and that in their new.
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i have taken there until the end to say what, in my view, can resolve this. how they can set the whole thing right. other than the rule of law and education and new one. neil in my view there are two critical fangs that we are to do, both in and afghanistan. one is some of the one i've written a lot about, investment and in the civilian law enforcement. his great joy of 360,000 but police in new from the police in afghanistan is really police. a paramilitary force. investment in police would have led to support of the civilian law enforcement. rule of law is linked to democracy. so you made a very clear choice.
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when you invest in giving a country and and when you make an investment. in afghanistan, still there and brave enough. i must mention there. she was the person that so many out great. she said many of them will my not asking. and been the last -- last year for sure the system training. and that is him. so i'm not trying to come back in terms of revival. that has to happen in a much more qualitative fashion.
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investment in civilian law enforcement more than afghanistan and pakistan. there is going to be much cheaper than the other projects. last and not the least, they're taken root. without the guerrillas and you're not pointing. creighton to not only. the way sick terrorism has become so divisive. one factor which is causing a lot of militants as in my experience, from the tribal belt , there's an opportunity to go now to one place in the travel area.
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the dynamic britain very different. and when to realistic an inclusive and open. unwed the decisions of those who can provide a bridge for all the groups to come together in one. will lyman you will not be able to tackle this phenomenon pentium thank you very much. [applause] in. >> and his operation caribbean but the issue again in that direction to bury it and one in. [inaudible conversations]
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the connection, political and military connections. in atherton. well, in fact, you know, those two have no operational connection whatsoever. move from one to the other. a reality. so, you know, when we look at the region, what were trying to look at the consequences as well , we look at what can be done been a what can we say. they say the idea, would surely an explosion of something.
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so home what it's like. >> i think to begin with in the it was the idea of taliban which inspired them to think about groups. so in terms of ideas away in terms of the very phenomenon and the dynamic, it that taliban who came first. how they were created the, the intelligence. how much of that was indigenous. but it was primarily an afghan phenomenon. later on that pakistan is were inspired. took them quite a while when the
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whole operation after the terrorist attack, the international campaigning in the region began. and tribal leader slobodan try to find the words. the first time was 2007. they continue to operate why so many others, as militants who are always saying that we have affiliation. if not at an operational of all, at least an 80 logical level. is the context. but it has become so different that the source, the name of the city. the colonial activism of not much now, not very progressive,
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but middle of the road. very clearly against extremism and military. but the pakistan niece, mostly also inspired by the same phenomenon puppet there were the ones funded. so the commonality between both is inspirational. secondly, in terms of that, that's the kind of remark that they have. now we come to the level of operations. very few instances. i will give you one example. there was is one officer rico and need. he was the senior intelligence officer, the one who trained. he was seen as the godfather. trained by special forces.
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he played a very important role. he was sent. he was sent a few years ago by the intelligence. and he had complete coverage. those tall man who have good relations with pakistan. they kept a very good relationship. the old guard. the insurgents, but the old guard. so the pakistani military intelligence said, we need your help. go and talk. and tell them that we have evidence that they are getting funding from india. so afghan tell about that pakistan salomon got all them.
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unfortunately that pakistan eight tell bad captain for over a year, i think. and despite the best efforts, you think they never tried to save one of their legends? and in another case, the joint chief of staff was kidnapped. pakistan in military they tried their level best to tell the salomon that we need this person they never listened to read what i am saying is coming in some ways they're different. however, we have got to know very recently is that when the afghan military moved to the north, the training center. on the face of it may be there was disconnect in terms of
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operational issues. but with regard and the logical framework, at the end of the day it was bound to come together. my view is if and when they international forces, you will see the coming together. the reason being -- and this is the failure unwise. some of all with the old afghan yardbird. some common. there were using the same areas. people were jumping. so i agree there were disconnected.
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but there are bound to come together, especially when the u.s. forces and afghani forces. because watch award would be to bring them together. >> please introduce yourself. >> thank you for a very eliminating talk. the taliban fact where's the money coming from? that we have so many studies. a major chunk of the money. and different members of the international forces have different people.
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from the american perspective, haphazard at my very well meaning, all the good intentions , but i think those who planned it planned it in a defective fashion. so no one went after the opium production in afghanistan in any strong fashion. it was a very small effort. the net result, the opium producers knew that the only way they can succeed and function is to continue to get this to income of 20, 30 percent, maybe 50 percent. on the ground and dividing it between the old, the insurgents are getting a major chunk of the money from opium. there is no doubt.
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leaked intermission, some restrictions. but what i can mention is batboy there developed evidence that there was a lot of fun and. there are many sources. and when they produce for there, the money was coming from arab countries. and they realized that in fact there was a lot of money being generated by the politicians then coming back in the shape of investments. a lot of that, i think, was benefiting as well. the answer as to who funds. they get most of their money,
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kidnapping. end the political economy has taken a life of its own. you can go. i think have can is one of the few countries in the you need no lessons, no registration of any sort. of course it has to be. the point this and, this political economy would give the funding. so the problem. when i discuss this with the pakistan military here has been very open. and i asked in the same question . you are always going through the approach.
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no law enforcement backing to discuss the financial links planks to the criminal areas. we had evidence that any of those were funded. okay. i would like to take this on face value. says a lot. whenever asked them to show our evidence the nature of that evidence. the currency above which is not always a strong argument. anyone can keep in the currency that you want. the point is whether right or wrong, a long debate. afghan intelligence is generally -- valleys some of the members, they think that there is some funding for some of those militant groups a little bit
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about intelligence organizations , you can never be certain. i know of any intelligence agency in the world who is known for doing humanitarian work. but in this case i have met many people to our senior members. and of course this is in pakistan. and of course for us it is important to understand that there are people, educated people who are genuinely convinced, whether it is an aisle, whether it is a diversion, or whether it is genuine, have no way to add that
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empirical evidence in front of you prepare people confess that this is some are at least one segment of it. the implication of this is very serious. those people will blame everything on outside forces. there will not do anything which they can do to settle the six germans and so that is why i mention that. the reality, if had to guess i would say it is bank robber, religious extremists centers linked to an urban countries which are major sources of funding. >> mark snyder, a national crisis group. as you know -- thank you very much for the discussion. has your crisis group has shared
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the view the strengthening civilian law enforcement within pakistan as well as afghanistan is fundamental. we also have seen the work has begun. appreciate your assessment through their carrying funding for civilian law enforcement. in fact has it been enough? has done the right kinds of things? and in new not take it to the next step been tear call for the rule of law. when will we see the movement fully under law enforcement's under the constitution so that civilian law enforcement will extend to that area. and one area where i have some questions. you indicated a separation between isi and the pakistan
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army and terms of operations. as you know, the of isi comes out of the army structure and moves back into the army usually at some point. can i say most of our own assessments would be that they are not separate entities or some policies but, in fact, a single policy. and the support comes out of that single policy. and one example might be -- perhaps you can explain, but we have not seen very much in the way of victims in the current drive. >> thank you very much. all the work that the crisis group is doing. their work on civilian law enforcement. the civil service. so the crisis group has done a
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great job by producing those a sense of economic research based applications. thank you very much as someone who is interested in south asian studies. i think it was a great idea, one of the best. the last in my book is that the best thing for my assessment that the united states is down for pakistan or in pakistan and the last six decades is actually the reason the most extensive piece. that is it deserves full credit for. has taken a long time for this policy shift some of taken place, but it has taken place. it will take many years. a new generation of scholars is being produced. i think that it is already to
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have graduated or will graduate in the next couple of years. , may be the largest. this is a product of the idea. however, in case of police and law enforcement it has happened, i think, frankly brightly. because unlike in the military to military relationship, the department of defense organizations with principles and a clear demarcation responsibility. when it comes to police, the united states has the single office which can coordinate any law-enforcement partnership. very, very small level. i really hope there will be more
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funding. and they're is a history. in the 60's and 70's, but i think -- and this is an idea actually one in my next book. for civilian law enforcement partnerships have a new model for intervention. but if you have to intervene what is the first thing that you do when he? the difference between chaos on the roads and virginia, crossing a certain limit. i am a strong the careful the next six months you cannot do that. ultimately it comes down to law enforcement and the rule of law. so thank you very much for those points. thank you for reminding me about that. i should have mentioned and one of the ways in which we can
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settle this question is like expanding pakistan into the tribal areas. though pakistan the police in that area ls bring parts of the pack is any trouble broke into mainstream pakistan. but to go back. and the last point on the differences between military and intelligence, the questions in terms of rendition. it is easy to see the mainstream military. i think now they're very well coordinated and very well focused. what i found out recently is the clarity of thinking. in fact, when asked they said, we will squeeze them.
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but what i heard yesterday on twitter, those of you who follow twitter, he said something to the effect, this is conducted by those. bake the life, hey, there are others see you. there recognize that they have to push on. the drone strike that estimate.
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very well coordinated. very strongly. there are not directing them to a new part. okay. we are conducting an operation. go into the -- in my assessment, they are pushed out. they're not positive. the pakistan military, i think, it is my understanding is now fully recognizing the issue. i have a lot in that area. i would like to believe it is.
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the report said the army chief. the operators. and then the handlers and the contractors. i don't know what is -- but the military leaders. >> i promised to be brief. i'm a professor and a chance to give long answers. >> i'm so grateful. peeling off many layers. very educated. thank you very much. you mentioned. i think some of your questions will remain. some of your questions will continue to remain being debated behind president kennedy.
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it's one of those cases which will continue to remain debated. you have mentioned at the end of the recommendation, pluralism and law-enforcement enhancement and reinforcement. this, he doubled the forces. my question to you this, based on your recommendation to of religious pluralism and the law enforcement, my question is, and most of the cases and pakistan the prime minister's became prime ministers through action. if he becomes through an accident or are asked to make a recommendation, what amount was
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three or four steps to bring this kind of terrorism and instability. thank you. >> inky very much. and you're right. but the reason they currently investigate and figure out because in the absence of of very clear answer, they continue to become more popular. and then those who are behind these killings continued think that they can kill and get away with it. and we have seen that in the recent past many of the politicians that area, members of the party, many of the
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leaders, a member of the parliament been, a member of the cabinet also. we don't know. who was killed. you were supporting someone it committed. and the fact that the tragedy is -- and i must say this, there was not a single atom bomb who was ready to stand. including, the official. so that fear. when your point is well taken.
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investment in the technology one the congests home stop terrorism . not particularly focused on seven terrorism. in an the modern police station. it is not only about salary but a policy drive.
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and also, the weapons. i love my job as an academic. i would love to be a professor and writer. there's no chance soever become. i think first and foremost i "france to serve. he had mentioned in his experience working in the premises office that around 50 percent of all problems can be resolved if you take an honest and efficient and competent prime minister.
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that can only happen in a major case of corruption. the second thing would be what i mentioned. but the identity. pakistan mohsen what the go to moscow or a church or to a hindu temple, and they have nothing to do with it. this is a 1947. he was not this one, small intellectual thinking about his dream world. people love him. he was able to create.
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his idea, very far away from those ideas. i think those in a position of power can do small things. take afghanistan back to be the issues are related to policy issues. others will be lakes education ensuring that your textbook image as review and take out some of those words and some of the bigotry. the second thing would be the militant hamas and the third thing, i think, would be the issue cannot peace process with india. i am convinced. you will not be able to consider pakistan in the same group as the radicalization of less they
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both come to an amicable, sustainable peace process. i think it is the security establishment which also has to be convinced. the political leaders must play a role. india will also have to play a role to make such a transition happen. without these three things i don't see a bright light for pakistan. bad them. >> to short questions for you. number one in some, the taliban have regrouped. thank you for your excellent analysis of the situation. i find it a bit paradoxical. they've taken large territories. but their posture is significantly different to what it was in 2001.
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secondly, the elections were pretty well conducted. there were no disruptions. so i find it a little hard to believe. my second question is, the military action, do you think it is going to continue for long and what will be the long-term outcome of that? do you see if possible any of the isolating events? >> thank you very much. you're absolutely right. we have a crisis there. maybe it's taliban can stop the whole election process the
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resilience of the afghan people and also some of the very good things that happened benefiting from the u.s. effort. major mistakes as well mike supporting war lords and so many others which i think for blunders on the part of the united states frankly, but at the same time that has and knew how state in afghanistan's future. and that is, i think, according to the international community, especially the united states. however, 13,000 polling stations alexian's. they never allowed that to happen these old men with long, white beard speed read all sitting in a hospital with bandages around the fingers. one district, the figures for
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every day have to go and see, those pictures. very disruptive in many areas. luckily those, they are joined in terms of joined together as part of the future of the afghanistan. the opposition, afghan taliban, you don't believe in democracy. they are against election. in this case there was some the afghan police as well as american intelligence. a lot of support which kept some of the tell bat away. i was talking to one man doing the research, sitting there. if you look at all, the number of attacks in afghanistan has
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not declined. not have as much as these big tax some of the other attacks. but the overall but those attacks have not declined. so if we were ever to have a successful election we still have to see to where all this goes. i think credit should go to the secretary and others who were able to bring in telling them that they have to figure out how they will build a national unity government. it will not be weeks. we will be days that uc the job and operating in a very effective fashion. even if there is reconciliation, they are going to continue to stay.
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because their infrastructure is quite intact the problem is much larger. and i think there is a huge impact on pakistan the elections that were conducted in 2013. all the progressive political parties. a pakistan the tell a man in some ways had a more devastating impact on pakistan and politics and afghan town. and for that, as i mentioned, we have no shortage. >> one last question. >> thank you. [inaudible question] your recommendation. as much as i remember, there was
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a long discussion. there was a lot of talk. assets. and not really sure what exactly are the concrete steps that states can take in terms of changing their outflow. the and the nomenclature with in the society's. spreading the tradition. [inaudible question] had been. [inaudible question] [inaudible question]
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and still wondering what exactly was the reaction of the decision to fight with the united states and? was there a sense of the realm? if they felt that kind of the trail than i would assume that their reaction should have been -- they should have been some sort of opposition. and wouldn't that create attention against the state of pakistan? >> very good questions. the second question, actually, i mentioned that has one of my arguments in chapter three or four. and you're right. this is obvious from the book. and he was the ambassador. very clos


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