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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  December 31, 2014 6:00pm-8:01pm EST

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second point is how are the extreme weather and climate systems responding because it is the extremes that really matter and third, how can we work with the society at large and have us working as a society at-large both to become more resilient to those changes and also to actually let the scientists understand how they can do their job better. so to start with the first one which is climate change come if you look in the death most newspapers and things like that you see this lovely curve that goes up in the city in the linear basis of until about now it starts to go up like this. that is only partly true because if you look at the carbon dioxide in the air that is the greenhouse gas that is changing, it is going up like that.
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but it didn't go up like that because of until the 1960s we were putting some into the air and it was called sulfate. you can hear the smokestacks and the acid rain and the ecological problems that we were sorting out and that is what we were doing. what happened before then is they were to some extent indeed largely canceling each other out. so, the warning that we are actually seeing is because they cleaned up the smokestacks and it's now accelerated quite rapidly up to the much steeper so i thought about climate change, that's what i'm actually speaking about. with regards to the extremes, there are a lot of problems without truly understanding and predicting actually understanding and predicting happens to the extremes. ..
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with. bottom accesses the number of categories for a category one two, three, four five you are aware of zero was tropical storms. and those relative to all hurricanes. if you just focus on the little area inside here back in the 60s and 70s when we clean up the smokestacks, we had a curve that came down like this. every decade since then it is formed this distribution and you can see there's been a bit of an increase out in the category five area, but the big difference happens to the category floors. that is because the energy limit has changed a little bit but not far. the capacity to intensify has gone up rapidly. they have super hurricanes. that's the good news. the bad news is we've now got twice as many going on to 2.5 as many categories as we had
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before. it happens globally. that is the global result. it also happened in every ocean basic steps of asia-pacific. so that is something we are living with now. the sort of temperatures as cindy said i'm not from brooklyn. i am from the south country down here and in 2013 we had a terrific summer with january actually was the hottest we've ever seen. there were several days in january where the temperature exceeded 40 degrees celsius. the average for the whole country. not just one station. there's a lot of talking about it and everything else that we will have a go at look at it. this is the temperatures in this particular case on one day. the really high temperatures you can see greater than 42 degrees south he is. you can see the cool temperatures around the coast and things like that.
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where do you think the records were set? we can do this to way. i'll show you another is i don't say what happens if i apply another greenhouse for that situation. what do you think will happen. here's a happens if i double the greenhouse. this is the change. you can see we've got around three degrees celsius change across the country and i guess i can't go back. if you remember that area originally was in the center of the country. all of the changes down here because what has happened is the extreme temperatures haven't gone up but the temperatures needed the extreme of going up substantially in frequency. this is also an energetic imitation which had the extreme and there's not enough edn greenhouse to do that.
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so what we've had happened in space. you see some unintended consequences here. look a little bit further north. it might be a little bit potter maybe a little bit cooler. the southwest is just because of the particular peculiarity. but this is something i hadn't taught about and that is that the continent as a total is warming up in the summer monsoon gets more intense in your putting more cool cold tropical air into the region. these are the sorts of uncertainties you've read about in the paper and people say you don't know anything. the answer is we can say sensible things about this. that is my second message. my third message goes to how we can direct with folks like you and in particular with several groups that i will mention ineffective. i want to show you a slide. here is a slide.
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you look at it and you say that was a pretty while disaster. it's not hard to look and say there's something really bad happened there. what do you think it was? here's the headline that goes with that slide. they actually took out the entire town in the war story in the nearby area. my point here is if we are going to actually say what is happening with climate change, there is another element and that is that we can't just be building buildings that are more rigid more extreme, more able to go 100 years without falling over because they will. they will for a whole bunch of reasons we don't understand. we've been working with groups such as these come engineering for climate extremes partnership. you heard about rising voices from my colleagues in the native
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american community yesterday. what we are doing is just trying to get a dialogue going where we can say hey this is what is happening that we need to work out here. we can work with you. i'm going to give you one example that goes back to the picture that has come out of there which makes a big difference to how i do science, but a big difference to how i do plan enough well. that is the concept of graceful failure. we are no longer talking about hundreds year return. from building. we are still talking about it but no longer focusing entirely. we say what happens if the building falls down or the breaks or it closes a? what you do is you know the consequences into the planning process. if it happens coming here so we need to have as part planning process to make sure we can recover quickly. that is what i call resilience.
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it's becoming a bit about it. i want to go further since we're talking about alternative energy. i absolutely support alternative energies and we have to go to renewables. let be start by saying that. it is not a panacea. indeed, there is no doubt that if we tip the growing energy requirements india and china and the rest of the world that they are the two biggest guerrillas in leblanc and turn them all into alternative energies in the sense of wind and solar power. we will make permanent an unknown at this point changes in climate. it won't be necessarily global. it will certainly be regional. a good example i gave you earlier on was when i clean up the smokestacks, we did it for very good reasons.
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they as to this meeting here. let's say we just simply just all of the energy for the united states and turned the wind farms to do it. you can't take that much energy out of the wind systems of the world and not make some changes. it is not just going to happen in the united states. it will make changes elsewhere. if the make the entire sahara desert green to borrow energy or grow trees or whatever we decide to do so it will change the climate of the world and it has. there is an example because the global, the nile valley was once a fertile region. it dried up and not dried up in that happened in conjunction with the onset of the indian summer monsoon. give me iraq up here and now i want to do is simply say the three points i hope you will go away with are firstly look carefully what you need by
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climate change. extremes are going to happen and in happen and it might you and it makes you a party happening. i've showed you an example. thirdly, let's keep the dialogue because i think there will be good things to come out of it. thank you. [applause] >> thank you greg. greg really sets the stage for what i want to share with you. again, do i have the power to start this? i guess you do. what i want to do is talk about the climate system that was alluded to as more components to it than the atmosphere. a lot of times there's a tele- focus on what's happening in the atmosphere and not realizing that an atmospheric land here. i want to talk about some of you sea level rise, what is
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happening in the united states and the triple whammy of what's happening in the ocean in terms of the warming ocean acidification and the increase of dead zones in the ocean. it is affectionately and the popular vernacular. so i am showing this site again because i showed it yesterday and several people wanted to see it once more. often times ucl this water. i don't need to worry about it. in reality i should drain all of the water off the planet. the amount of water that you have that is really a major part of the planetary system is quite law that goes to the volume of the planet itself. the amount of fresh water you have is the second that streamed off the larger bloom and then
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the smaller dot is the amount of available freshwater. so the next panel is really talking about freshwater. just thought i would show this again because it really gives you a perspective of how precious this ocean is on the water that we have and it is a critical component of the climate system. it is the memory of the climate system. it basically shows the capacity of heat and in fact i'm going to show you a slight weight around here that shows that most of the heat the excess heat with excess carbon dioxide is being taken up by the ocean. so let's talk about sea level rise. let's focus our attention on the west antarctic sheets and glaciers. it is coming through. what is happening, and arctic in terms of the melting of the eye sheets up there.
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very quickly it was produced by nasa and mostly covered by ice as well as sea level rise. the recent work show basically the ice is feeding into and throwing out the last antarctic glaciers speed enough. and the process coming in and out. they read in that color-coded animation basically means faster glacier growth. here's the western and we are zooming in to see that and let air coming in and then the outlets of the glaciers that are going now. so they're basically rivers of ice that are happening there. science is basically shown what's happening here. the water that is happening in the antarctic, that is basically coming underneath what you see
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here. as it comes under the ice it picks up and arose a grounding point of the glaciers that basically grounds the glacier in place. so the point is sickly this land word in antarctica and it's not as secure. and the glacier begins to surge forward and out to the ocean. so this is the process of the complex interaction between a warming ocean and ice that is basically cascading and melting and putting ice into the water and eventually melting. now the amount of sea level rise can he attributed to the western and start back to about 10 feet of sea level rise perhaps a little bit more. what does that mean?
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let's put it in the context of new york. this is new york city 10 feet of sea level rise. i think you can see that you inundated three metropolitan airports. about 10 feet of sea level rise might occur over 100 years or so. but in the short-term, 10 feet of seawater inundated yorick zanardi has happened. it was a combination of the small amounts of sea level rise that we have already combined with the storm at a relatively high tide. that gave at 2.5-foot storm surge that inundated manhattan. so these things can have been towards the climate system along the events one is seen in terms of whether can easily produce searches like this.
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so the point is is not only are they going to need to worry about mitigating and clearly climate sciences as much as possible in terms of the infrastructure of our cities that we have here. adaptation strategies you can retrieve. i don't know where it's going to go. maybe colorado. we can accommodate. we can raise these cities is certainly in the 1800s. vouvray chicago and seattle. it was easier to do in those days than it is today. or you can protect. there's a lot of debate on how do you protect. you protect hardened infrastructure building walls or do you protect defenses back into place. no longer building on barrier
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islands, putting back in restoring the wetlands. so in reality, a lot of the coastal communities and exactly how to approach the problem of a combination of what the strategies to adapt as well as hardened strategies to adapt. let me go to the sea ice of a continental feature in the art day. yesterday we showed the arctic area, at the point ends and it's not just the sea ice area that is in port. it is the volume and increasingly wealthy are seen in the art is age-old ice four to 5-year-old isom on the salty eyes melts rather quickly. there is an uptick in 2013 here. you know this is an anomaly. the fourth point may have
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increased the area of ice for the year 2013, look. arctic ice has an interesting -- let me stop a minute. this is basically at shipping point with geopolitical issues. but what does it mean basically to open up the arctic. opening up the arctic start and has a lot of economic potential. in terms of fisheries in in terms of oil and gas another abstraction and you know companies are looking at this. i think one of the greatest fears from an oceanographer point of view is not if an oil spill is going to happen it is when an oil spill will happen. it is not going to come from drilling for gas or oil. and you look at what the
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responders was her deepwater rise in and clean enough that oil spill in an area that mother nature is pretty kind basically to help clean up the deepwater compared to what is going to happen by an arctic that we know little about scientifically. there's no ability to get there in an easy way and how to clean it up. there's the real important adaptations for seeking care about the security of what is going to happen in the arctic as it becomes the area. of course the geopolitical consequences of the nation and the particular aspects on the economic. interestingly enough, the boundaries in u.s. and russia have been well-established as a result of the cold war. the other nations are still arguing what is going on here.
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finally, i'm going to skip this and just go to the triple whammy. that is as carbon dioxide increases the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere resolves of the ocean. the ocean means that the ph decreases and you have certainly major habitat consequences associated with. the whole ocean acidification process. a lot of research now is looking at the biological functioning in the relationship between ph commissions and ecosystems and clearly one of the problem areas is the habitat love coral reefs symptoms and production of more biological function. so that is the acidification issue. the warming issue. most of that content is in the ocean. this just shows you the fact that the heating that we have from the carbon dioxide is
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sending up most of the ocean. if we didn't have the notion, they would be a lot more. so that ocean is buffering right now. the ocean continues to warm and has significant consequences. this is my last slide. let me kind of take you through this. first, the service ocean is absorbing more heat. it's warming up. as it warms up the warmer layer they are basically reduces the mixing of oxygen. so you don't have as much oxygen make, which means you marketing as much oxygen in the deeper parts of the ocean which is pretty critical because the deeper part of the ocean is associated with the atmosphere. the only locals that the ocean are in the mixing process.
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warmer water inhibits the mixing process. you are basically enhancing the ocean minimum zones in the ocean and they are going to spread. that has to many implications for marine animals that require oxygen such as tuna. they live in a deeper parts of the ocean. without that they run into some trouble. it does provide wonderful habitats for jellyfish. we may have lots of jellyfish. now this is compound for what is happening on kos that future if voting an atmosphere of fire retardant and her pharmaceuticals, basically cause basically the coastal waters they are.
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they are coming up in two coastal areas where you have additional stresses associated enhanced and dead zones in the ocean and we are seeing this as well. so if you have this in them and complexity of the notion land atmosphere sometime which science is coming to grips with. we had a stage that is important to make the investment that really looks and these give us the information to the changing world. thank you. >> thank you for both of you in a statement of some of the problems and now dennis will address some of those with possible solutions. >> we have to do something different than what you will see
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is very different. the plants dry land plants grow on wasteland, and as i come using seawater irrigation with no desalinization to solve land water, food energy and climate affordably with all of it. two-point which will say the salt water plants which have been utilized in other countries for hundreds of years and now around the world. just a good portion of the sahara is capable irrigated with the mediterranean and produces sufficient petrochemical feedstock for all of the plastics and all of the food anybody wants to be while returning much of the 60% of the
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freshwater they are running out of for direct human news. i eveland, wastelands and deserts, south water because we are substituting salt water to grow food. food because we are going to. energy because we are producing biomass -- biofuels at about $50 a barrel in a climate because we are sequestering some 18% of this year to update. if you point how we saw this guide. the advantage of seawater at 97% and seawater contains a massive number of import minerals needed in the human diet, we just about depleted out of the farmland and seawater contains 80% of nutrients required for agriculture that is in proximity to a large number of dry desert areas. 44% is wasteland. it has a lot of sunlight and
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surprisingly enough it has a lot of ground water. you don't have to pump ocean water. you can also pump groundwater. there's an aquifer in the eastern sahara, which is huge and we can utilize these two solar problems. the characteristics of this wasteland were seawater acts so far, no observable salt buildup produces a cooler surface atmosphere which produces fresh water downwind. we did this on the sahara. you could do rainfall back in the middle east and also stopped it decertification of the sub sahara. he utilizes the plethora of wastelands and seawater to solve what we have. there's about 10025% of the irrigated lands are now affect
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it because the aquifers that we are now pumping down in texas and oklahoma are in fact becoming singly. the characteristics of the yields and halifax produce the entire product spectrum seeds fruits grains, would oil's residents, pulp, rich in energy protein 35% more salt water than not to grow this staff. so you can use halothane biomass and energy, petrochemical feedstock, would come the co2 sequestration. for centuries on the indians have caught it, there's been a successful agriculture for food and water with no salt tilt up and 22 nations are now growing halothane. wastelands will really massive
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capacity to do this. australia, persian gulf, middle east again, sahara, southwest u.s. including text as and many others. the current effort to make uae though we may still growing how sites for airplane fuel. and the state department there is an operation. farms in northern mexico are also growing feel and several others are in the formative stages. so my last dates chart is to utilize the opportunity of deserts, really inexpensive land utilize seawater which is extremely plentiful and inexpensive. grow halla five, grow really massive amounts of food massive amounts of biomass both a true chemical feedstock while sequestered 18% of the co2 affordably with existing type
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knowledge he. start now. 10 to 20 years that affects land, water, food energy and climate. thank you. [applause] >> thank you. thank you dennis. thank you all three of you for the great presentation. do we have questions? yes, john. [inaudible] -- to reality. reality being we have a gubernatorial election coming up in which climate change is perpetrated on the other who claims to be a scientist. this science is unclear. so my question to you while his what can you do to affect the leadership in this state and
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what can we do to help you? our governor claims to be a scientist and claims there is no significant proof of climate change. it is just crazy. i know your objectivity keeps you in a certain bomb of being scientific, but there's too much at stake. .8 advocacy and we need to support the advocacy. [cheers and applause] >> you heard yesterday that the climate change politics is driven largely by the financial aspects in the real world. recently, the renewables are punching through a parody said the financial businesses in fact becoming very successful. half of the new generation worldwide is not renewables and one of the previous speakers this morning when in today's. so it is actually not that
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concerned about climate i think which is going to change things the way some of us would like to see it go. i think it's the favorable financial aspects. >> as you talk a little bit about other countries been involved with halla site development come in d.c. in the u.s.? in the u.s.? >> it was actually started out at the university of arizona. there is a major absurd and the university of delaware, gop down in oak ridge and some work we are becoming far more successful with this. the entrepreneurs that actually started the major seawater operation in the horn of africa and is working now with the united arab emirates came out of
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arizona. >> in you wanted to address john's question. >> yes, very quickly. i spent many years working diligently with politicians. and i woke up after a while and i was getting nowhere. they are actually very smart people. they have an agenda in their agenda is driven by two things. it's driven by the people in this room and they are also driven by who actually gives the money to be elected. you have to just simply understand that. you can do all of the arguments you like. you're running against the political reality. a few years ago we decided not to do that and that is where the rising voices and engineering for climate extremes came out of. two examples where that's no effect in the political process. firstly, the last rising voices medium, the native americans wrote directly into the presidential system saying here
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is what has to happen. it is no longer be talking about it. it's all the indians in america and hawaiians in hawaii. that is what they listen to. the second thing is the financial industry gets a bad rap in many cases. the insurance in the financial industry again working with people like us have actually com2 a united nations agreement or starting next year every company in the u.s. and other parts of the world but as shareholders, in other words publicly listed has to put in their sensitivity and the problems they may have with climate change and severe weather and similar things to come out of it. the world is moving that direction not because politicians take us that way. the people who elect the politicians are taking us that way. >> by me just ask the conversation a little bit about voices. scientists are a small percentage of the population.
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it is your voices that has to come through. let me tie you up little bit about massachusetts. maybe you can concretely tell your gubernatorial people look at what's happening in massachusetts. in massachusetts there has been a very concerted effort to put in place an agenda for a green economy. the governor has done a common state legislator has done it. resources of investments have been done. we are beginning to see results already in terms of economic development. you have to talk about it in terms of financial terms. he has to talk about human terms. you don't talk about it in terms of science terms. there are things that have happened here in colorado. the four same regardless of what you believe and are not the climate is changing and we do have to get away from this business of basically just
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talking up a scientific level and instead casting in terms of economic development, human stories and basically passage of the environment as a whole. massachusetts in a period of five years. so take a look at it. go on the website. talk to people there. i've been on their committee. talk to me later. >> another question. yes. >> my question for mr. bushnell. how a fight sound too good to be true. many of the middle eastern countries that would struggle with food have lots of money. why does the list not show saudi arabia for example? it sounds too good to be sure. convince me that it's not. >> i have worked with the saudi's. the saudis called up and said they are worried after they run out of oil what is their economy going to be. i walked with the people for the same reason.
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i asked them whether they had any say. i have them whether they had seawater and i said have i got a deal for you. the last time i saw the saudi's going down the street looking into how the fight what i said to the middle east was that is one of the major areas again for energy. >> one more question. yes. >> hello, my name is stephen hoffman. i'm honored to be here. i live in boulder. i work in natural and organic foods but i'm also recommend the colorado ballot initiative to label gml suits in our state. what about the dead zone it is actually caused by agriculture driven by genetic engineering and it's all that synthetic nitrate fertilizer that actually just poisons the water of toledo ohio.
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call that a dead zone because that's an algae bloom. it is caused by gml agriculture. we think gml agriculture in conventional agriculture in general contributes 30% of the greenhouse gases to global warming. interestingly enough and i'm interested in your halla site program because organic food and farming actually put so much carbon back into healthy living organic soils that it can actually sequester more carbon than is being released in our atmosphere. there actually are open-source low cost solutions to sequester carbon in it has to do with agriculture. agriculture is a practiced today, why we want to label gml is is because that agriculture has killed the soil is releasing all the carbon into the atmosphere and is really contributing to climate change. thank you very much. [applause] >> one more question.
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i can't see. behind the podium. >> i am with chief and we work on. he and a lot of the issues going on internationally. i wanted to ask a scientist that you are what is your thoughts on few cushy non-and how come the government don't tell the truth and i'm talking even about the u.n., the effects of what's going on what is going on in the pacific ocean, the death that is occurring. why doesn't that knowledge ever come out to the mainstream public of how it is a fact and is now and how it is affecting global warming. >> anybody want to take that? it's a little out of everyone's area. >> i think susan wanted to say
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something. >> i'll talk about fukushima owned in the context of radioactive release into the oceans is associated with that. if you really want some really good concrete information very straightforward evidence-based information, go to our website and look at the center for marine environmental radioactivity. we have a scientist who would mediate the one missing on the head and when the meltdown of fukushima happened realize that this is probably the largest release into the ocean. we worked very hard and it wasn't for the governments or anything that we got funding to get into the japanese waters and off in japan waters be tracing these and basically who came to the rescue for the private foundation. so one of the first things you have to do is scientific evidence of what is happening is look at the baseline data.
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that enables the baseline data and also establish relationships between japan and other international sciences to pull together in a cooperative way and continue to trace what is happening with the fukushima ocean radioactivity. i can't tell you all of that, but also the scientists i work hard and getting information to the japanese public and the fact there was a workshop and a public forum on the japanese base for the unbiased solid information out there. they were very worried about the plumes of radioactivity. we worked creatively through crowd sourcing to get samples along the west coast and that has come into the analyzed and shows the level of threat is very very low. but if you want the information,
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go to the institution website. we have old center devoted to her. >> i want to thank you offer interest this morning and thank you for thinking these distinguished scientists. [applause] >> so yes, as randy mentioned i had the one job foundation. before i get to introduce the great work of peter and bob i want to tell you about what one job does. we were created because the seven. everyone has to do why it would ease water that would create a patient. is evidentially who's to basically not a worldwide wanted to have two alleviate poverty and he did a lot of research and
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a lot of soul-searching to figure out where he would have the most he would have the most impact and he realized he would be through water. obviously assert a salai performed in countries all around the world and some of them have serious water issues. obvious they are big permanent as well. when you created reinvented way and thought there was room were perhaps a created factor that was also his fiery change an opposing change. i contact you in a little bit more. i thought it would show you a video that shows you what we've done in the first six months of this year. it shows how we go on with their business.
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♪ >> yes, it's a very new partnership so delivering an integrated way. ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ >> the united nations has laid important groundwork and i want to also recognize water aid, the global poverty product, the one drop foundation and many more. ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ >> yeah, so there you see an organization with very unique water access and management programs in three continents. more than providing access to water and sanitation, and the greatest issue our sector sustainability. anywhere between 30% and 75% of the water and sanitation programs delivered worldwide doubled sale within two years of being implemented. so quickly we have to come up with a model that would help overcome the sustainability
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challenge. not only do we provide access to battery and sanitation cannot we also provide full share common entertainment. so that allows us to speak to communities from people who weren't literate to obliterate. they address an entire community on a entire community all the wants and is similar to the work you are doing here. it's an interesting connection to make later. the third component of what we deliver is the seeds of capital. we basically have communities transform the water into activities so after five or six years of implementation, the community that have lost resources and wealth and ownership is forever. the reason why we are here today and energy without talking about water. being inextricably linked
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together and someone who actually saw and we talked yesterday and today it will build the next two days talk about the energy crisis and the fact that in a little more than 100 years will run out of oil in 200 years is not of gas. the fact is we've run out of water right now. i think someone who has seen it firsthand because it happened in the backyard is peter mcbride who is an award-winning expert. we leave the audience with a message of what is hot anime. >> thanks for coming out. just to give you background and what i do i started off as a photographer doing work mostly for "national geographic" kid i've had the privilege to travel
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to over 70 countries and adventures with the plan and after little while i wanted to do a story closer to home and about five years ago i followed what i called my backroad railroad and the colorado river starts in the rocky mountains here and all the way to the sea of cortes were used to. it ran there for 6 million years. i followed the river about three times and was amazed four years ago when i came to the u.s.-mexican border just south of it and not as just perplexed me beyond my comprehension. colorado ran 6 billion years. not a single drop of it reached and has been drying up since the 60s basically. what is so significant about that is they embody so much freshwater as a whole with
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recreation, agriculture, industry and basically maybe our well-being. so i started following rivers all over. i've now done anything besides the reverse. they just completed 18,000 feet in the himalaya in the tng all the way to the c. the ganges river supporters 400 million people in india. arguably one of the most contaminated rivers in the world, believed to be by 1 billion hindu sacred and embodiment of virtue that. what is so workable to me as not only the river on the other side of the world that is loved and hug day late, but so many people embrace faith on end is getting terribly overused and abused revered and reviled as many like to say. yet at the same time in my
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backyard, in a river that is famous in the world, the grand canyon come to so many of us turn our backs to it in part because we think water will keep flowing. topsail keep running and the reality is they are not. it's an issue everywhere with her impoverished in whether you live in aspen, colorado for the southwest or the u.s. because every day of what is commercially and the u.s. in grocery stores comes from colorado river water. baby spinach in january comes to the colorado river. lake mead, one of the largest reservoirs on the colorado river built by hoover dam 1935 has now reached its all-time record low. so we have this meant halliday that as long as the tabs are no big deal we will just keep turning the sprinklers on. we will keep doing business as usual.
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we are basically just that nadine are reservoirs our bank account water. what amazes me is nobody's really paying that close attention. a lot of people banging the drum but it seems to be one of the issues that goes very heavily and now wherever i go whether locally or abroad, i see the issue everywhere. water, water, water. fresh water is vanishing. what i was going to do we show you a two-minute doa recently did because i want to make you aware of that we are approaching a very serious crisis on freshwater particularly about rivers, but groundwater as well, it feels like what can we do? at such a big challenge and how do i make a difference? i can turn sprinklers down or useless. a lot of it i know the phrases used a lot, but awareness is
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being aware of what is happening in getting your voice out there. the video i'm about to show you is the colorado river continuously for a long time and this video is in a week mainly due because a lot of people were concerned and got together in the hands of many listed the gates of the last state enabled the colorado river to kiss the sea of cortes says last may for the first time in a long time. it was temporary experimental. i was won three of three people at the top of work to see it. i know it's a little closer than they closer than i maybe wanted to. the angry mosquitoes down there waiting were extraordinary. but why don't you cue the video and we will move on to bob.
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the mac you have to go over that. >> this is an improvement. >> you're moving. >> this is called moving an inch an hour. >> in a trickle of water, paddle boarding is an upgrade. >> the last time i came here i watched 90 miles. my backyard river in colorado. i've been cheesiness flow for years. most people think of it as beloved architect of the grand canyon in colorado. but it is different down here in the end.
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so we can eat baby spinach in january. in spring of 2014 something happened. two countries decided to work together to restore adults. the hands of many lifted the gates and release a temporary wear less than 1% of the rivers flow into the doubt that you see what would have been. a river of c. and became wet once again in the csa knighted down the street. ♪ locals celebrated their return. ♪ the native species exploded.
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the river party only lasted a few weeks though. they did what any river lovers would do. like the new paddle board and eventually in the shadows. >> generally colorado has no water. it's a pretty nice river right now. >> it looks amazing. usually this part of the river is completely dry and there's been many years like that. >> on may 7th after nine, 13 hour-long paddling days 90 miles of the adults have reached the seat. it was the first and only crossing of the new delta.
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the first time the colorado river came to see in nearly two decades. many levels it was a preposterous journey, foolish and even wrongheaded. the most absurd paddle board mission ever. it's also beautiful and symbolic and with a relative trickle, we could bring the river back to live if we try. ♪ [applause] >> colleges say a couple words before you move on to bob in the american rivers. many people often ask me and i think it is very symbolic on the dilemma we are dealing with water and fresh water as they recently did a radio interview here and they said to the colorado river doesn't see anymore, so who cares, big deal
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if it dries out. i went on to give my usual answer, while the freshwater interface, creates estuaries, habitat, biodiversity. it usually goes right over people's heads. i felt like saying listen, what happens if the river in your backyard dried out. that is part of the dilemma as we often see a watershed and are just immediate vicinity. we don't look downstream in all of these systems are heavily connected. many say it's crazy. et cetera. it is just very symbolic. it was mexico's water and it wasn't taken from anyone else. i think there is potentially enough water in our systems if we use it wisely and with that
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we will move on. >> sure, yes. for those of you don't know bob irvin ceo of the water rippers association, he's been 30 years in the environmental field. and wildlife lawyer by training. he spent three years at the home of the american rivers association and previously worked for several nature conservancy organizations as well as the united states senate. >> well, thank you. it's a real pleasure to be here. ..
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can be done now to bring them back. we really are facing a crisis for rivers and freshwater. just last weekend people in toledo, ohio foretold for two days they could not use water for any purpose. one of our staff members she and her family were directly affected. and you we will recall two months ago a similar watermelon when there was a store chemicals in the river. we have mistreated chemicals throughout history and continue to do so. a toxic algal bloom polluted
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runoff from cities and farms, and as we see more storms and intense storms please see more of the runoff occurring. quickly take steps to address the problem unless we take steps to address the problem of climate change if we don't address climate change and our rivers are missing the boat. because the fact is that provide critical linkage for wildlife to move in response to a change in climate. so addressing our rivers, rivers, restoring rivers to their natural state is critical. but all of this being done in a climate of political paralysis as you have heard a lot about even though we
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have a crisis we seem to lack the political will to do something about it. right now the us environmental protection agency and corps of engineers are working together to finalize a rule that we will restore clean water act protection to virtually all waters of the united states, particularly streams and weapons. we have to correct another bad supreme court ruled. we need to get this protection back. it is being opposed at every step. and so unless the american citizens stand up and comment on this, tell the epa and the corps of engineers that we support
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this the rule we will be in trouble. that is critical. there are a lot of challenges ahead, and i want to share a couple of reasons for hope. what he said a few moments ago if we have enough sense we can bring these rivers back without a tremendous amount of effort and i have seen that as a travel the country. i was in petersburg virginia where my organization has worked to take out a 100 -year-old down. as soon as the first breach on the dam, the small incident allowing while the -- water to flow over it, baby american eels which really ready to swim up that one trickle of water.
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and three years ago when i became president of american rivers i went out to washington state on the olympic peninsula where we have been working with partners to come of the federal take out to large dams and restore 70 miles of the river. it had been blocked for 100 years. as i stood on top of the dam that day i looked down and at the base of the dam i could literally see salmon bumping up against the concrete. they were just waiting for us to have the foresight to take that out.
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now that the dam is out salmon are spawning where they have not for over 100 years. they instinctually knew where to go. these are the kinds of things that give me hope. it tells me that no matter how much we damage our rivers, the river is still their. if we have the strength and foresight to restore it take out the dam clean up the pollution, the river will come back. i am very hopeful. thank you. [applauding] >> if i speak i speak from experience, before we begin implementing a program we
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need to have everyone coming together. when i listen to you i i see that people very much work in silos. how do we bring these sectors together connect. >> they convene on the river.
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which is become an engine years ago. by working with the community, the federal and state agencies with partner groups in that area, all of those interests have to come together. it is the same in the us as it is in the developing world. >> to give you an example of how challenging some of these situations are the reason this happened in colorado the law of the river it is the first of its kind, the first binational agreement treaty to bring water back to the environment. 260 rivers in the world across international boundaries
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boundaries, and this is the first time countries have worked together to bring back something for the environment. the fact that that happened in 2014 on the colorado river was basically our second decade of drought, a hopeful sign that if we want to we can restore a lot of these things. a concerned citizen can. we try to work with people to get the word out because i think my personal opinion
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is that we need to push the needle on the public, and in order to do that we need social media. sadly the attention span has gotten to about a minute and a half. >> i would like to make a commitment to you today, the reason why one shop works the way we do, we do not do pure awareness programs that create fundraising platforms which generate that kind of movement and awareness. we created one which basically gets billions of impressions every year. i would love love to find a way to integrate your content to make sure that we helped propel the message to the beautiful movies that you have produced. >> well, thank you. >> it is amazing. thank you for your great work. if there are any questions
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we have a few. yes. >> we will repeat it. >> no i think -- >> just say it and we will repeat it. >> we can here you. >> okay. >> i heard about an old application of paddle wheels located on rivers that generate a slow amount of electricity but do not denigrate the rivers in any way. they take it out for a short amount of time. there also are generating facilities, and aspen has been in a big fight over a hydroelectric plant that was
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defeated by a vote of 51.4 percent. it was sponsored by a fossil fuel billionaire who lived upstream. why the city of aspen would submit -- because he spent literally millions of dollars to defeat this, when it is in the best interest of aspen and the environment. there are many facilities and i understand it is legal, and legal, and the grid must accept it. is that correct? >> i believe that they do. if i can address your topic first topic, first of all there are many opportunities to use existing diversions to generate hydroelectricity
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which, of course course, is part of the solution to climate change. my organization, american rivers, rivers, has worked closely with the hydropower industry and some people that would not normally be our allies on legislation that passed congress this past year to encourage that kind of development because we see that as a good alternative to taking a wild and free flowing stream and building a new facility on it. i think it is the castle creek project, i know there has been a lot of controversy about american rivers engaged in that issue through our staff based in colorado to make sure that the process through the federal energy regulatory commission was not circumvented, to make sure proper reviews took place. my understanding is it was, of course clearly more than
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just one person who was opposed to the project. >> thank you. >>, there are plenty of ways to use the rivers that do not denigrate them at all. on the river in washington where they built a series of dams 30 years ago they were looking forward to selling electricity to the western grid but dams were being taken out as i understand. is that right, and the columbia river, are they taking dams out? >> it is funny that you bring that up because i cut my teeth as a lawyer working on litigation that involved the construction of five nuclear plants in the columbia river basin.
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they were built in the depression during the 1930s and while they have done an amazing job in bringing cheap and abundant electricity to the northwest and been a real engine for economic development there, there they have also done tremendous damage to the salmon runs which is pretty important in that part of the world. no one is proposing taking them all out, out, but certainly there has been a lot of discussion about taking out the four lower snake river dams which are particularly damaging to salmon going up to idaho. >> we are getting messages. thank you very much to both of you and your questions. thank you very much. thank you. [applauding] >> join us tonight for more book tv. we kick things off
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we want to no what you think. log on to facebook .com/
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c-span to leave your comments. >> next, from the explorers club in new york city a conversation with a space plane test pilot, brian binnie who piloted spaceship three. he talks about the experience and gives advice to private citizens buying tickets on upcoming spaceflights. this portion is about 40 minutes. >> take it away. >> we will begin with the second part. brian was a private astronaut astronaut, he flew spaceshipone ten years ago to win the x prize from his employer at the time. of course, spaceshiptwo is an outgrowth of spaceshipone
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i don't know, this guy -- i have a ticket on spaceshiptwo. he has gone over to the competitor. i want a really warm welcome for brian binnie because this guy has the right stuff. [applauding] >> thank you. so i am in the private side of the house. i do not take your tax money we do business for better or worse our way. i am working on my currently fourth spaceship. i have pictures of some of my private career post military available with a business card at the back. as jim says it has been ten
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years now since the time sorry x prize flights coming up on 11 if you count the first powered flight. are the c-span cameras running? [laughter] get this on screen. i have written a book about the experiences with that program. there certainly were a lot of large that came out at the time that told bits and parts and pieces but the fun stuff is in here. i kept thinking, if i could find myself in a city that has some expertise in books writing, publishing, editing, managing, that kind of stuff if i could find
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myself in the group a group, a crowd of people that might actually enjoy reading what it is like to explore a brand-new private spaceship i thought, here is an opportunity. with that said, i will pass these around. i i think there is probably enough for everyone in the room. if you are in the book business, my business card is on the back. please take one. >> i just handed them out. >> off they go. >> so that is pretty much all i have to say today. [laughter] now to move on to our next presenter, greg olson. [laughter] i have to say brian is not
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only a great aviator but a friend of mine. in full disclosure, brian wrote the foreword to one of my books called "the right stuff." i took him once in a car at 200 mph as a passenger, so he really has the right stuff. was that scarier than spaceshipone? >> spaceshipone, it was not as scary the vehicle itself. 200 miles an hour is faster than any. >> the fastest you had been on the runway. >> right. i was curious that it took a
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wheel to get my attention. >> what i want to start with, because we all ten years ago remember first of all many of us never thought of the x prize would be one because their were so many different competitors, and all of a sudden with a couple of months to go, you guys fly spaceshipone into space, and do it again but have to do it twice within two weeks. it looked really dicey to us on the ground. you had to go finish the job , fly it and do it again within two weeks to get that $10 million i'm sorry x prize. tell us us about that. there was a lot of pressure. richard branson your employer and you had to make it happen. >> you know, what i want to talk about -- and i will get back to that but walt's
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comment about cell phones i am not a cell phone kind of guy either until one day i was i was out flying a plane. the only requirement to fly spaceshipone was to have a commercial glider rating which if you start to think about it seems like a pretty low bar flying wise, right? so i am out there in the foothills and and i am just practicing. this little baby airplane glider that weighs about as much as i do. the total plane takes us up over the mountains to the
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self, which are about 8,000 feet and get released. immediately 1500 feet per minute just making a turn away. i am coming down like a freaking break. and i stick to a swinging back and forth. i decide today is not the day to be flying this little thing, so i start aiming back toward the field except i may be pointing that way but am so flying this way down the ridge line and there is no place to go. at have to kind of give up and say today i am not going back to the field. i am going somewhere else. [laughter] and that somewhere else, who
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knows where. where. so i end up between two ridgelines on either side of me in this little baby airplane that has got no the make a sharp turn and this is where all the windmills are in mohave, 3000 windmills can't be wrong most of the time, and today was one of those days. it just happened to kind of pick up. i am getting pretty low running in between these slashing blades of these windmills on either side of me and looking for a place to park this airplane. they have these little access roads that run up and down the valleys between the windmills. and i find that about
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50 feet, 20 yards of road that is in the right orientation, relatively flat. i have got about that much altitude. so i dig for a little bit of airspeed. that kind of turn. it ceased turning to the wind, and the thing settles ever so nicely onto this dirt road. and i go hey i made i made it. how about that. that is pretty good. did not break anything. that is when i realized that i was still flying. so after that harrowing mess how could spaceshipone have any pressure.
7:27 pm, i am am stuck in this little airplane and cannot get out because if i get out it would just fly away essentially. i am sitting there. it is a sunday morning. and we start the pump. for once in my life i go if i had a damn cell phone -- [laughter] i had a punchline. -- i i could call someone. after that event i broke down and joined the cell phone generation. >> generation. >> albright, spaceshipone, that day, clearly that was a lot of pressure wasn't it? >> it was a tremendous a tremendous amount of pressure. i had not from the vehicle in some ten months.
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my flight, the second x to flight as we called it, a monday morning. the night before, sunday night was the first airing of the discovery channel's program called the black sky there were two parts. the first was the race to space which was focused mainly on all of the effort that it took to get the first flight and so that was being played out on you know national tv. when a book between segments instead of going to commercials a cnn reporter
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he would interview and say, well first question he asked was, who is the pilot tomorrow? they answered the question. pushing further and says, how do you think it is going to go? and i don't know how many of you know bert, but when he has an audience and crowd he knows how to work it, it, and now he has the world stage here at his hand. byrd's response -- and i am at home pacing up and down listening to bert's response not only are we going to hit a home run we're going to hit a grand slam. that was that was the quote. >> no pressure.
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>> no pressure. i am thinking the bar is not high enough and here is bert just making it even that more difficult. and a few things have to happen. happen. you have to get above a hundred kilometers. >> that is considered space, right? >> that is the new definition no space. walt would barely be awake by that.but that was one big deal. that was the $10 million. we also had sir richard branson. he had a multi- hundred million dollar contract ready to go should we demonstrate that not only could we get to space but
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get their without -- >> which mike had done a couple of days before. >> mike's flight was on a wednesday. and thursday we kind of thought we figured out what was causing that particular problem which gave me hope. thursday night was when it was announced that i was going to be the pilot. up until that time the clever management, way of doing business, not unlike maybe george abbey at nasa or the way that the chinese have conducted their programs they leave it until the last minute to tell you who the crew is. so on a thursday night i
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find out that i am going to be the guy except all of the work that i have done today to kind of keep my hand in the game just on the outside chance i might get an opportunity to fly this beast of an airplane now goes out the window because we need to change it. the way that it was changed was subtle. stay up all night and read it. it. it is quite entertaining but it took a lot of orchestration between myself and mission control at the time. the idea was to get the nose of the vehicle pointed 60 degrees up as quickly as possible.
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we ran a lot of stabilizer control, got to 60° up within ten seconds and then we took 50 seconds or so to coast from about 60 degrees to 80 and then in the final endgame the last 20 seconds or so we would be pulling on the vehicle to get up to about 87 degrees nose up which in the vernacular keeps the angle flowing across the tale which meant you had better directional control which means that it does not try to knock you off course. the rocket motors they
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don't -- they are not steered for you. they are fixed in space. the end of the burn the thrust line of the rocket motors is no longer along the body axis of the vehicle. now you are in the wispy, upper atmosphere aerodynamically trying to counteract that thrust of symmetry. we figured we could fly at about 150,000 feet before having to shut the motor down to avoid the rocket over blowing the vehicle. we found that we could do a little bit better. my flight i got all the way up to 213,000 feet before shutting the motor down
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which is about somewhere between ten or 12 kn indicated airspeed, so i am just about on a stall in terms of aerodynamic control >> are you pilots all getting this? >> anyway, this new procedure worked great. but there is really no expectation that it should. should. we had only had six pilot flights of the vehicle. this was the sixth flight. the previous five had all
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presented problems difficulties, situations that we had not anticipated thought about, understood and had to go back and huddle and go this does not make sense. we have got to change this do we have got to change this do that different. there is no reason to expect that this sixth flight that was critical not only for my personal sanity, but for that of the team for team for that of the company for that of richard branson. we speeded out. >> you went up to almost 70 miles. >> almost 70 miles which does not sound like much, but maybe in this city 70 miles is a lot but it is like from my house does not
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even get you to los angeles. it is a challenge. it is what we were doing. that flight did it in spades. >> i know that weight was a big deal and i think there was some anecdote where your mother-in-law spilled a 16-ounce soda on you right before you went up. [laughter] >> you got to love your mother-in-law. you know at the time i i was 50. and if your mother-in-law still wants to give you a hug and you are mature in life after the gracious error of marrying her daughter, then you take it.
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it is about this time of year cool in the morning. she had obviously come from the local mcdonald's large cup of coffee and is like, she is the same personality of the mother in everybody loves raymond. so she pushes her way out of the crowd. i am actually on my way to the space ship. she comes out out and says you know a good hug. she is approaching me. i am kind of wondering what the game plan is for that cup of coffee. and as for arm sweep around me it becomes apparent that there is no game plan. it all just flows down the front of my flight suit onto
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my -- i am wearing a t-shirt underneath. now i am just soaking wet. that coffee is freaking hot. [laughter] it was heavily sugared vanilla flavored and it weighs about a pound 16 ounces. we had a rule of thumb that we would kill grandmother for a pound. >> a way to save the weight because they had to make altitude. >> 1 pound of additional weight is about 500 feet of apogee like on his first attempt to get to space back in june just made it by
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400 feet. >> the coffee would have stopped him. >> i was reminded that he figures i was now you know know, wearing an extra 500 feet of apogee penalty. it was on that note they close the spaceship door. off we go to history. >> is that in your book? >> my mother-in-law is now one of the most famous mother-in-law's and the world because she knows i tell the story. but it is all true. it could not have been more disconcerting. it was not a big cabin.
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as soon as that door closed the aroma just, you know overwhelms you. and that is how we went to space. >> listen, you are up there and have seen all of these pictures, a fighter pilot. when you got up that high, explain what you felt. i know i know that walt was too busy with his stuff to have any emotion but did you? >> shame on you walt. >> i am i am here to tell you it is the most fabulous right in the world writing a rocket motor pegs
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the senses it really does at least the way we did it back in the spaceshipone days. that rocket motor lit off like and angry brahma bull as though someone slapped the gate open and now you are just trying to hang on for eight seconds if you were a bull rider. >> you have to stay on for eight to get the score. >> that's right. except you are are hanging onto this thing for a minute and a half. and and it is a thundering shaking, shuddering kind of experience. we had a gauge in front of us. we we were not sure we were able to read it. the flight controls go from light to within about eight seconds you are supersonic
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and the control forces are so high you think you are moving mistake but not affecting anything. and then you have to transition over to electric trends to control trajectory. in the end game you are back to flying it like an airplane again because the cranking motor wants to adjust the flush line on you but the magic is when you finally turn that motor off because three wonderful things happen. they happen in a blink. the shaking shuddering vibrations of the motor go away. in the case of the spaceship burned, the shrill, shrinking sounds shrinking sounds of the motor, this big nitrous tank to 2 feet behind you that is emptying itself making all kinds of
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-- it is like a possessed cat sitting behind you. >> i have never heard you say it that way. ..
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if you've ever been in the mojave it's one of the most jury disappointing godforsaken places in the world that the view from the mojave is spectacular. san francisco to the north baja mexico to the south and you have the pacific ocean and the sierra nevada mountains. you have weather patterns. and then of course there is the black space and separating these two probable extremes is then blue electric light and that's the dash that's the atmosphere. it's the first time you get to
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sort of appreciate and realize that you are now in space and a spaceship. it sounds kind of cool to say. what did you do this weekend? i cut the grass. really? i went to space on a spaceship. you know, you have worked pretty hard physically just to get their. so everything your body feels is wow and everything you see with your eyes just because they are so much more dynamic than any camera or video as you take in this vista is wow. and i have told the marketing people this for years that they are all going to be out of jobs as soon as they get in the business because it's an
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experience that doesn't need to be you don't need to be coerced into this. people that come out from having had that experience are going to be doing the marketing for them. >> what you just described, i have a ticket on virgin galactic spaceship two. will spaceship two when it flies, if it flies, will i feel the sort of things that you felt? i obviously won't be a pilot that will i fill the rocket burn in the shuddering and shrieking and all back? is a going to be similar? >> absolutely. actually it might be more intense for you because as a passenger you are not in control of anything. you are just along for the ride so anybody can tell you an
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acrobatic airplane there's a huge difference between whether you are working in the control inputs to the airplane or sort of reacting to what somebody else is doing. and so i think you will become a man of god rather quickly. >> i already him but. >> but if i was orchestrating spaceship two i would have a 52nd countdown after separation from the mothership. that was the time between the arm of the motor and a fire it. >> like a tag racer when they take off. >> in those five seconds your
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life is going to be changed profoundly and then off you go. it's such a compressed experience. it's not like -- you were not in days in space and you haven't spent an entire career working up the competitive ladder to get there but you still get all the same benefits that view, the weightlessness, the experience of writing a rapid motor. spaceship two we will see how it plays out but it's got it pretty big cabin so you can him buckle your seatbelt and you can rustle with the -- i don't think it's going to be a problem. as long as you can reference an
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outside window and there are plenty of them you will do just fine. >> i will remember that. >> and you know that's just getting up there. there are still the ride back down which is an entirely different experience in itself. >> what is that like? >> i liken it to if you are driving a car and it's starting to rain and it gets little splatters of raindrops on the windshield and if you are driving into a thunderstorm the intensity of that rain just continues to grow. re-entry is very similar to that
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that, where the rain the noise of the atmosphere against and spaceship two's case you can actually hear it go from a pinging sound to one that just grows and grows in intensity. as the noise level grows so does the g levels that you feel in your body. this is strange to articulate but it is buttery smooth. you are just getting heavy so it's like going over niagara falls. you are on your way down and there is nothing stopping you
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and it continues until it's thick enough in the atmosphere its it's sub sonic and once the vehicle is sub sonic the vehicle doesn't quite know what it really wants to do. it's sort of in a confused state and so you put the tales that down in vb glider and then you have 10 or 15 minutes to breathe again and look at the passenger who was sitting across from you and try to assimilate all that has just happened to you in the last hour or so. the majority of the flight is
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climbing up underneath the mother ship which is probably from a passenger's standpoint where the copilot is going to have to have a degree in psychology or stress management or stuff like that. the ex-course concept is different that in that on the get go you take from the runway. there is rocket powered. there are four motors. you start them off sequentially so you don't get that big jolt. you take off like an airplane and you just keep going. >> now i want to get to that. brian worked for many years on scaled composites and stacia pullen was a success and richard branson put his million --
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hundreds of millions of dollars into virgin galactic and brian and his team. brian went through a lot of development. i guess the question would be why did you go over to the competitor of virgin galactic? >> my motivation was there were several levels to it. given our friends in the back of the room i would just say we had spent close to 10 years trying to develop the rocket motor for spaceship two and i had read a book some time ago called design of nature. this book makes the case that if you for example take the size of the heart of a rabbit and compared to the size of the
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heart of a shark or a lion or an elephant and you plot them all out versus the animal's weight they will fall on a curve that is fairly predictable. there is always a little bit of noise in the data but they follow this curve. i just had the sense that for 10 years of trying and crying and praying and the truth come of it like in the way for this spaceship rocket motor that we warned on the curve. that has been the holdup for spaceship two. i'm not a rocket science guy. i felt like my contributions to the program had run its course.
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xcor had spent the last 10 years building they are motor which was restartable which was a remarkable and clever thing to do for a rocket motor. reusable, it's standard liquid oxygen and kerosene. >> there is a lot of history out there versus these hybrid motors but now they are building an airframe around the proven engine and if you think about the world of aeronautics and airplanes when you go to build a
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new airplane you first find that first find at that the power plant that's going to make this thing work and then you build the airplane around it you don't first build an airplane and then go well where's my engine. that is kind of the difference if you will between what was going on between spaceshipone and spaceship two and xcor has found a position where i think i can be a lot more use in terms of flight test planning flight controls crude checklists and all that kind of stuff.
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>> we are in a private suite of land in an lady bird johnson. this was the private quarters for the president and first lady. when i say private i do mean that. this is not part of a tour that is offered to the public. this has never been opened to the public and you are seeing it because of c-span special access. vips come into this space just as they did in lyndon johnson's day but it's not open to our visitors on a daily basis. >> the remarkable thing about this space is it's really a living and breathing artifact. it hasn't changed at all since president johnson died in january of 1973. there's a document in the corner of his room signed by among others have been archivist of the united states and lady bird johnson telling my predecessors myself and my successors that nothing in this room can change. >> so we are here at the 100 block of congress --
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pennsylvania avenue and up the block is the colorado river. this is an important historic site in the city's history because this is where waterloo was. waterloo consisted of a cluster of cabins occupied by four or five families including the family of j. carol and i'm actually standing at about the plot where the herald cabin was. this is where mayor bella barr was staying when he and the rest got wind of the big buffalo in the vicinity. congress avenue in days -- in those days was a muddy ravine that led north. the men galloped on their horses. they had stuck their belts full of thistles and rode into the herd of of low firing and chatting. what became congress shot this enormous buffalo. from there he went to the top of the hill where the capitalism that's where he told everybody that should be the future
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