tv Book Discussion on Custers Trials CSPAN June 2, 2016 12:20am-1:17am EDT
classified anymore. >> what's the level of cooperation between darpa andnd the war on terror? >> well, i think darpa cooperates with everyone becausi from my understanding of talking to individuals, for example in i that organization, everybody wants what they have because it has all the best stuff. i think it goes both ways inasmuch that, i read about a couple programs in the book t where you have a team and there was a program, i want to say, it's not, there are darpa guys go into afghanistan unclear about how to actually work. i'm sure that stuff is still classified, but most definitely cooperation, from my
understanding, with all the military services. >> hello, this may be an unfair question. if it is, is, you can tell me to shut up. but, with all these interesting ideas and leads, what is your next book going to be? it seems that one leads to the next. what are your next books out of all of this effort on darpa? >> i do like to keep it a little under the sleeve until i write the next book, but the one thing i can say is i always love writing about how the agency and military intelligence work together because there's always this idea that they don't and it's my understanding that they really do. the next book involves a program that is cia and dia, defense intelligence. >> that's more than i would've
told. that's great.ves a >> there so many programs you would never know. >> we could've had them them shut off the c-span camera. >> okay just a quick question, thanks for the talk. there's a lot of people from darpa who were in various positions in government before and after, can you talk about darpa as a germinate or for senior managers and dod. maybe it's broader impact ont ot policy and people who went on to much higher positions. >> yes, that's a great questione it speaks to how important science and technology is at the pentagon and of course theen current secretary of defense being a scientist and a technologist, but i think the first one, i know the first one
came from livermore. he was at livermore at age 24. he was a protége. then when he went to the pentagon, he was the person who knew all the darpa people during the vietnam war. in 1977 he became secretary of defense. that was a very, very important secretary of defense. in essence he created the really important darpa concept which i read about in the book and itlyw was absolutely allowed the military to dominate in gulf war one. that was all science and technology driven. i think he was able to get monel into the arena that didn't exist before by creating an entirean t industry around technology at the pentagon. >> back over there.
>> question. you alluded a little bit to the difference between darpa and the intelligence committee. did you ever run across any instances where darpa benefited from espionage, either providing the seeds of later research or did they suffer from espionage. like you said they have the good stuff and other people want to get at it. >> i don't know of darpa being infiltrated by any spies. i don't know. i do know in the other way, certainly there there is incredible interplay because these programs are so interwoven, science and technology and intelligence, bue you know there was one interesting interview that i did because the cia has its own darpa now. i interviewed intelligence and they work together a lot but i
did interview someone who was involved in the early organization and presented thatt idea to congress and he told me that the intelligence community was very much wowed by darpa and what darpa was able to do and wanted their own model. they really modeled themselves after darpa. >> it's even modeled, it's almost taking darpa back to the core.tracts ir by the is putting out contracts and contracts and contracts for people to bid on the ability to do advanced computing that almost five years ago no one was thinking that wa they have taken that the next level saying we want people thinking 30, 40 years down the road, much in the way darpa does as well.
>> hello, would you tell us a bit more about how darpa is organized. how does one come to join darpa and how long are you there. is there there an employment process or recruitment. >> as i said, there is generally 120 program managers. usually people stay for, five years. we do have someone in the audience who has been there for decades. so, that is the structure, allegedly, but i would also remind everyone that as with all of these agencies, the information that is given iss not, is often not part of the story. we know darpa is very much free of red tape and bureaucracy and
because, as you said earlier, they don't make things themselves. they farm it all out. it allows them the flexibility. they do have an awfully large building and not many reporters get into it. who knows what's really going on in their. >> hi, i was just wondering, hoh is darpa involved with cyber war today. can you talk about that? >> leading all efforts. if you look at the budget you can see how many of the programs are trying to defend against cyber warfare. i think it's interesting that the only thing i've heard the pentagon speak about in cyber warfare, they are very clear that we have the supremacy everywhere, but admits that cyber warfare is an enormous threat and so, i don't think darpa could possibly be doing enough in that area. i imagine they are. >> it is the number one
potential threat to the united states. it is the plant of terrorism as the number one threat. people are paying attention and there is a lot of money going toward it. >> any last questions?s?in there is one in the back. >> hi, i just wanted to know about how do you see information that will previously be spit out to the military and you think darpa still has the edge versus a foreign power? can they use companies to quiet intelligence in the u.s.? you think darpa still has the edge in that sense?at >> i'm sure darpa has the edge.p they have incredible satellite programs including one that is
launching satellites, really usable technology and i think the whole idea of what's happening in spaces having this resurgence now that's very similar to what it was back in 1958. it's nowhere know important than satellite technology. since darpa's job is to keep the nation safe from technological surprise, one can only imagine how much darpa is looking up. >> darpa has always worked with private companies as part of the organizational structure. we don't know if a private company is getting technologically advantage on their own or through money from darpa or someone else. we will never be told. my kids may know one day not anytime soon. :
>> i always enjoy reading the acknowledgment section of the book. i was curious about your reason for writing the book and did darpa cooperate in your research. can you talk about the process for doing the research and writing the book. >> i always love talking to scientist and engineers who write on the programs. it is a common question of how you get sources. i always carry the idea when i wrote a book about area 51 that a science who workeded with richard from the cia if you a
>> if you're always on top of your information and keep current then people essentially gravitate toward you. he also told me to look up that whether bats were birds or the cosmos the answer lies from above. so that means go higher up so somebody doesn't want to talk to you that you are too low down and they can't so one way that i find wonderful and inspiring busies greatest minds scientists and engineers
engineers, people who have knowledge and information who are willing to share it if you ask the question. so maybe there will not give me the information but surely this is so wonderful thing about when you get old to look back corner life you say to yourself what can i share with my country that have spent so much time dedicating my life? >> i am a journalist. i have a civilian. >> we have to go through lot of hurdles.
>> you write about fear it in part of the book of the robots taking over and we lose control. having been through this three year four years do you share that? >> here it is what i think prayer by begin the book with the aid via that scientists created as a weapon and two of those blows right to treatment at that time to say the what
did this evil because they fear there would be noov defense against it. so now we live with the decade i hope it doesn't happen and it has said but we're at a parallel situation in my mind of those suits think about the question buttony the idea among the smartest in the world is the overwhelming majority that that too could be a weapon in which there is no of defense and so limits must be in place. my fear comes from a shared concern from very smart to individuals. >> very, very smart to individuals who. in the last questions?
>>. >> thinks for your time. in regards to the military industrial complex what about citizens staying well informed? seventy-two exactly what you are doing. just by participating in discussions so much is out there in all the books we have we can just read to just maintain a knowledgeable basis with participation in in society is imperative. some choose to become advocates and others remain
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the invisible half of the congress. we have watched the house colleagues with interest and the tv coverage of members of the house some of it u.s. senate comes out of the communications dark ages we create another historic moment in the relationship between congress and technological advancements in communications through radio and television survey 50 years ago the executive branch began appearing on television today marks the first time with the legislative branch in its entirety will appear on the medium through which most americans get their information about what our government and country does. >> televising the senate chamber proceedings is a wise policy. both recognize the citizens
of our nation to know this is their government. >> i would show the body of evidence do you trust william jefferson clinton? to agree with this something that has never before happened in all of senate history. the change of power during a session of congress. >> people don't understand there are three areas in the next five years to put the government in charge. >> i'm sure i have made a number of mistakes by voting against the senate televised
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makes a difference in where i sit the beginning of every lecture i dunno why you have your phone with you just lose your communication and put them on you to. we were here together on the stage for years ago into had just won the pulitzer prize in national book award for your fabulous biography of vanderbilt's.eived
and that was very well-received and t.j. lives in berkeley california with his family. in the course you're already picking apprises again i won the you won an award for biography. congratulations.ou as i [applause]nd hav >> for people who'd know lot that is very nice. >> publishing 82 volume bibliography on tester 3,000
were books. >> why koesterer? i hate myself. [laughter] >> i really do appreciate that with the potential readers even more and to have a conversation in to have a book coming out with the apache wars i have read in the galley and it is phenomenal.with said to have this conversation is terrific i can go on and on to give the speech about custer bet that explains the whole approach
believe they have gotten thee ia wrong as well as a lot of writing about custer and my approach to change the camera and a gold wondering how the united states cametatese into being that the high-profile aspects of little big horn that is not the focus of my book but i do focus on the western career but to contextualize the parts that is a huge part of my book with the lesser-known parts of his life to show how he was engaged in all sorts of ways of modern america how his notoriety and fame as a we don't associate with custer
like grace and federal power and the literary culture in the rise of the corporationin te the western story in theor civil war story to bring forward with the female characters is so fascinated with their relationships to have a complicated and rolla title way to locate him that does not devalue that part by integrates that the people have so much focus on >>. >> when last you were here i wos stunned how beautifully written in have beautifully researched it was i did read
the about printer built but custer is astonishing wording from the of vendor built book with the new way to look at custer to cover that boundary of biography because it is a book about american in history in the civil war and the gilded age and the closing of thehe american frontier which is custer's last day and so a the most spectacular moment of his life his death that
they head toward but i think that was pretty nicely spitting in the tone of the book is not to have a final chapter so to treat that in a way that they experienced kin today it was they try to figure it out with the battle is over and one reason they like to write about custer is of personal information really allows the writer to get into here is life and inside his head
so it is all out and the open.relation and with those dailystru struggles but paula deen back biography and literary you right over the horizon then i picked up the epilogue a couple years later now you are out of that experience of his lifeat to figure out what when don and i was inspired by that idea but of the effect from
james mcpherson's book and yes it is the experience but getting to lincolnribe i assassination it is one chapter and then to allow african-americans to vote and then that starts the next chapter so one of the great dramatic moments is completely off stage than it is completely powerful. it's sght i will have the impact of little big horn but don't want to be swallowed by such important
case in a spectacular but it think this is the first book>> a in what that is like to america the interesting thing about biography is you are presented with the fact and david lodge the book was a collection of columns distinguishes between mystery insistence mystery you know, what happens you don't know how you get their sea war in grossed and in the discovery of each explanation so there is a sense with the story of the story one of the reasons it
is so fame worse and such the iconic moment so if the major military figures and custer was the cultural iconamec that meant she meant something to america because of what they were going a way i through of that exaggerated vault title self-destructive way all about the changes of america at the time.
be slaughtered with mass infantry warfare and dying by the hundreds of thousands. civil so with the calvary fighting another calvary. he embodies that romantic ideal and he is winning. so throughout his life they worry that he is still in the -- a standing in the way in those soldiers only from behind. >> so he did not there is the question about that.
demand in fact, it is interesting how how we focus so much as a people on the last and and people forget forge this young soldier was instrumental to save the union to bring forwardnd slaves and their children and grandchildren forever. >> that shows both sides and i present a very complex picture it is not the monochromatic picture that you get he had real strengths of human flaws. so the big surprise for me i knew he was brave and lucky and courageous and was a
professional when it came to combat in rosalie's creating problems with the culture of the army. i looked at personal records because he would call aout truce with the confederate army. living up to his reputation that later on during that period the errors to pass through the army you can see that the official ratingsone ar budding combat yes he loved to lead charges but he also wrote of his revolutionary technological invention puts an end to the warfare he was
great at the rights this is the most important part ofofimpo the war with rifled artillery to make excellent use of fire power and when they can break the enemy lines. so the real surprise says it is the one area always professional and in command and confident and impulsive. so be in such a disastroushinkss fashion but that is exactly why he is so iconic and was so good at fighting and they usually know if she was kept fit fighting to read your book
isn't focused on the battle within your epilogue that this aborted its let him would down but of course, of that work there would not have had a career. [laughter] but really he was almost betrayed. >> at the same time were problematic officers but yet also we were chatting last night i did when i get too deep last night but he was the defensive field commander of the calgary it was his job to maintain these relationships but he was bad management and thatec institutional culture comingla out of the civil war he was never good at being a manager so you see that
transition in the difficulty starts very quickly leading up to his death he did not maintain good relations that have a problematic relationship from part of that is their fault but there were problem officers in the inquiry is quiteethey remarkable that they come up with excuses why he did not follow orders to help custer so that shows problems and you mentioned how instrumental in the civil war but he was of course, not just winning the war but helping to destroy slavery he hired a young escapes slave who was aecame teenager who not only became his cook but to upon the of role and became a household manager. and then distributing food
and lobbied custer and his wife and traded in the region from officers ofof other commands and she herself was a formidable figure and just like the role of management to show the rise of the organizational society so his personal household reflects the way the world is changing as a result of the civil war as african americans in search themselves to say we deserve a place in society. pay attention and custer pays attention to yet he is the ideological conservative to rickrack and that struggle with the way the war changed america and to
th very hesitant about the changes is key to the book not just his public face andal issues of the draw of the ofjecr his personal life. but this is made of the agreement international in th internet and this surprises i me since he rose to fame in the war dedicated to liberating one race and then he wins immortality in the war to subjugate and other race that speaks to me about the complexity of america in the struggle with race. cared you talk more how he used that to explain custer but also of america?
>> in treating a biographical subject you have to have sympathy as a human being and you should not apologize so thee question is when he makes these choices first of all, identify what was authentically important but also recognizing the way america was changing to look at how he made choices in how other people may differhim rejoices showing yes reflected our americans felt so when it comes fighting for the union to be from a border state family identified with southern
culture and oppose though lincoln the election but yet when ross was true he wanted the country to be a whole but then with the repercussions he struggled personally and on the public stage should there be the emancipation in there first he opposed it them believed it was the right thing sost rights for african-americans? he deals with this interesting relationship in his own household as is his p wife who is struggling for a domestic power and also a figure of reconstruction as texas was occupied immediately after the war he had to adjudicate the case of a nine year-old black girl who was murdered who was left was slaveholders to
go find the mother and he murdered her it is anserva horrible case and custer we a conservative and very reluctant as the occupier of american and territory even though legally the authority he released him to civil authorities say uc and going back and forth in struggling and he makes a chill race to oppose the new rights for african-americans and becomes controversial for the first time run over the indian wars but politics of's bu reconstruction because that is true to his life it tells you how americans bought over the definition of who was an american and a
personal battle in a struggle as well so writing by history to say you shoulditea know this as a writer that is the job of a pure history of it as a biographer want to use that to explain the forces were driving him in his choices? and then he does tell us about the country as well park with the indian wars he reinvented himself as a western figure it became a writer and public intellectual with he writes by himself from the west he writes explicitly about american indians how he had been outsmarted it oute's marched by them so he writesespp frankly how he is facing these people who are raising capabilities but yet like most americans as the
higher. view so hard to explainnsort o that? so he works his way to a view their great in nature and are savage you cannot civilize them so we have to wipe them out is interesting to see how he struggled back yet has to work his way back to his convictions we see a very flawed human being with affection and relationships the yet also a public player trying to figure where he stands. >> it is interesting in an odd way his death in the same your of military reconstruction will end in the south lost is a unifying effect because of there isis one paying its white americans and
african-americans can all agree that the indians must be defeated there is a a racial divide that in the way it is the ratio was ameri cultural having to do with american expansion in the support of that he road-building -- hero building coming from the press. >> gave a talk in dallas there is a terrific book about the press reaction ina the road to a really great book for her keys sympathize politically for he had the will support but has you know, so well the people who were the most humanitarian also believe the culture as gramm said in
his first inaugural address any steps that could make the indian the citizen to civilize him will support so with his peace policy he did want to acknowledge a cultural separation savir of newspaper articles andon. speeches talk about killingll everyone this is taken seriously as a position that custer had the viewpoint there will probably all buyoff it is not a nice view but that is even the humanitarian said no. and the east are saying to wipe out their autonomy and culture is and languages and villages.
>> and the peace policy was not much of the peace policy in the way with those apache wars is that anachronism that tries to make his way? >> yes and no in the sense the civil war is giving rise but is one class ahead of custer graduated near the top with the huge to ledger books of the merit but with custer is page after page after page of. [laughter] and he has not even half a page of demerits who became
a boy general 85 veryboyant heroically but he was not a flamboyant and infantry commander much more of trade the troops well and a cultural figure after thee civil war mississippi was a black for geordie state where the first blacksked to officeholders passed by the republican party to leave but after the war after he was driven not of mississippi he went toaf northfield minnesota where his family was involved in the technology of flour milling in the business and with all these changes he adapted very quickly and
successfully by the way i argue the reason in jessecame t james' came and 1876 because he was there when he was captured so with thera interesting parallel who was custer who wishes the affecting the whole image for himself with those policies with the new fundim when its image for himself but he never succeeds in business although he tries he loves what street and sophistication and the york but is the total disaster as his wife finds out after het dies and has $9,000 in debt that he never quite gets hit by a lot of americans are an opposition american legend all become disillusioned as a result there was strong
will and conflict in the sentimental antebellum american speaking to those of reconstruction failing because they wanted to suppress the rebellion to support the african americans to have a say being committed to the adm of civil-rights so reason why reconstruction ended the people of the north alternately custer was one of those people to revisit that. so we look back to say this was changing and he resistede ot but history is not a w straight progression so he reflects america that was simply a there was a lot of different cultural themes.
and it speaks to those who were uncomfortable with those changes taking place v in very much a part of why he was such a highly debated figure in his lifetime. >> i grew up watching olivia day havilland on the late late show with the kid had to speak out to watch that tv it 1:00 in the morning and of course, not custer was portrayed as a storybook romance.not qu and as the ball fairy tales that is not quite true. a real merit and people willagee
recognize themselves and custer was not faithful and she used her gender to his benefit. >> yes. that' it is so fascinating their relationship was intense andsomy sexual and custer is somebody who really needed attention he had real capabilities and his flamboyance was up practical rule of success also speaking the paris of the insecure about him so for example, 1866 he went off to yo