tv Forum Focuses on Political Unrest in Venezuela CSPAN July 22, 2017 2:30am-4:02am EDT
in. >> good morning i president dan cero the united council the director of the latin america economic growth initiative had the piece published in the national review this morning that captures the gravity of what we will be talking about today with the headline summed up the the following way. that's democracy heads over a cliff where is the international response? so it has been more than 100 days of ongoing opposition protest with more than 100 killed and thousands injured
with 176 many basic food supply and what food can be distributed. blast your infant mortality shot up 30 for said reaching levels of the poorest sub-saharan african nations but i cannot tell you people who got familiar with venezuela understand that. the largest part of venezuelans and it goes on. to say alternately this is at a time with the international community that yet has not happened so this
enormously timely insignificant event with that humanitarian crisis of venezuela as well as try to identify new ways to involve the international community with the u.s. to the significant challenges. is a much more significant than what we're facing in venezuela the and our own hemisphere. in that spirit his enormous pleasure and honor to welcome the secretary general. mr. secretary general thank
you for joining us. leading the diplomatic fight to encourage venezuela to respect human rights and dignity to walk forward on that democratic path. i am also honored to let that permanent representative of that american states to put forward that resolution as well. so i will briefly acknowledged that panelist who will be introduced later the chief economist the executive director who'd traveled long distances to be here today.
and it is wonderful to have you here today to discuss these issues for girl venezuela a decade ago was one of the wealthiest countries in the region and to be embroiled in a crisis but it demands global attention and refiner sold today one week away to elect that constituent assembly to the government's benefit that follows a situation where the 7 million venezuelan symbolically voted to reject a power grab of the biggest disobedience movement the world has seen. the international community
with an unending series of roadblocks and a the trump has additional sanctions and was considering a broader set of sanctions but now was the time to double down on the effort to put further international pressure and attention on the stage. so with our own venezuela strategy one is the atrocities committed by the venezuelan government and to put forward a new plan emerging from a crisis. the second is a road map for the regional efforts and the third is drawing attention to the actions of the international actors can and the implications for u.s. national security and on
going and wander term effort as such today's event marks the beginning that we are lucky the secretary general could join us in this pivotal moment. we will also hear something yesterday in the outcome of that as wilson now is my pleasure to introduce the secretary-general who is was elected to lead in 2015 and since he took office he has led the incredible fight for peace and prosperity in venezuela. he served as the foreign affairs minister with several initiatives with the uruguay recognition. previously serving in the
chamber of senators with those embassador positions not as the ambassador to china. but then in a keynote conversation and you are a highly respected leaders is my honor to welcome you to date you do have headphones as you will be speaking in spanish for simultaneous translation record to remarks. [applause]
speaking speaking spanish. translator: it is good to be here with you here in this political forum were probably the most complete in the hemisphere with dialogue of the well-being as citizens. this is for regional solidarity. the commitment of the hemisphere defending democracy to strengthen those relationships between countries with that american democratic charter when the member states agreed about
of mechanism to protect democracy with the exclusive authority that would act in each of these signatory countries when necessary. so this could prevent or stop with these democracies that have put so much in the region for one of the tragedies of venezuela if there had ben a willingness to apply the charter we could have avoided what has happened in the country when in defense of democracy with that security and
humanitarian crisis. and to the point of a real dictatorship. it is true venezuela should solve its own problems but when words of civilians have the government act with weapons against them we have to reestablish the order then we should do this of those fundamental rights of the country. when they went out to protest that the government instituted a has systematically violated the people they have killed more than 100 people in 100 days almost one person per day a number of wounded goes beyond 15,000 there were 244
political prisoners in recent history that includes a loss of life for the humanitarian crisis because they are dying for lack of food or medicine for chronic diseases almost june 000,000 people have left the country because no rule of law so venezuela of that citizenry and this is is insufferable for a the country every betty has been coopted and the country cannot be managed this way the problem
is even greater with drug trafficking the institutions than that challenge is completely new to our continent so it isn't just dismantling the dictatorship but from the state of venezuela the venezuelan government to reject the offers it does have arms. every death in venezuela should hurt the zero whole international community. it is our responsibility to defend the people of venezuela for what it is
going curve. last sunday people went out in the streets to defend democracy. seven and a half million people called to the armed forces to defend the constitution. for those government employees to respect the constitution for free and transparent elections so this is something that should be done that in spite of their fear and being present that people claim all their rights there is
more worth and value with all those people with all the oil that they have that the government has decided to torture and leave blood on the streets. but the first clue to recovered democracy and no government should forget. that is the main problem. they do not connect with the needs of the people. for what is malleable and to mold your own. and that goes for the opposition.
so we have not learned from the previous dictatorship with the second part of the 20th century we did not learn from that for. we never should have allowed this to happen. also that only political forum the only one that is discussing permanently or that inspire the readily and - - resolution which declared that constitutional alteration in venezuela calling for venezuela to restore democracy so the
we need an emergency plan those who are suffering from lack of food and medicine and to be contained there is still work to be done and then bringing venezuela closer to us they have inspired us to find a solution at the cost of their own minds they should be respected social the people of venezuela. they key is. [applause] >> i will speak in english.
to let american center we are glad to have you here today for the launch and please join me again for all of his work every day on behalf of the venezuelan people. [applause] >> so wild that transformation happening that they will do all they kievan to lay the groundwork so people can live in peace and security. talking about the numbers which are staggering and those pressing issues facing venezuela and then for
question is for everybody here those from the other hemisphere byzantine - - peru and argentina and brazil and others. so from last month in cancun so with that testimony reached for the senate foreign relations committee with the population stopped that from moving forward so with that continuing political support on behalf of the country's.
>> speaking speaking spanish translator: but my response is the same. the countries have national interest and due to this sometimes they inspire their actions and affect the work they do on the international stage. so these international actions based on these national interest is a constant practice and this country doesn't almost all the time. so we cannot judge anyone for acting this way. there is logic over the last 15 years to the established
strong ties with countries is in latin america and the caribbean to create economic interests and political interest and so that logic is not easy to undo with those certain principles and values because when you see them on paper in the case of venezuela for what those principal values have here and what that means with that social and political behavior. with those institutions of a certain country they can be averted and those variables
that have also affected the variables and that does play a role when it comes to the surgeon point. so when they make their decision of any decisions country decision but it has been an average of. and evolution when only a lone voice there were 20 countries that would have been enough for the democratic charter but not
in a ministerial meeting but the procedure that was elected. >> that has led the sanctions without broader set of actions 1018 is a bipartisan bill for humanitarian support for the venezuelan people. the u.s. government is very much focused but of fraud your perspective what is the most effective way working outside of the oas in what could be the most effective
on behalf of the venezuelan people. >> [speaking spanish] translator: i can let you know, in a better they will kick me out entirely. [laughter] so actions taken by the u.s. administration are positive in terms of applying pressure to the regime to be applied against the vice president for the constitutional assembly. and also what would be very positive and as the tool to
accelerated but also there was very strong pressure from the inside those that were committed of zero for every single person with the internal pressure is not bear the extra of pressure then the obvious example is the matter how hard from the pressures from the outside. >> so your top concern of what might transpire over the next 0910 days what are people not talking about or should be concerned about to
transpire in the short term? >> to believe that problems are solved by listening to the people. so as they tried to express september and october last year the government had to be listened we would be looking at this entirely different. if all of the of signatures of the people asking for the recall it would be different. what we have now is a tragedy. one hundred dead in protest that is a tragedy.
the voice of the people must be heard. the scale of the tragedy that should be paid attention to so what is the underlying issue? vice say that no matter how many times you chase your tailor this still behind you. the focus of the appreciation now focusing on the true agenda freedom from political prisoners and that is what the people need.
respected. by those operating within the country and the players without. that voice was heard clearly on july 16. any manipulation of that, any effort to ignore the sovereign voice will just lead to a repetition of what happened the first weeks of november and december of last year. at that time there is an institutional that was a recall referendum but a different path was chosen. >> that is the program they should deal with not allow the government to play games.
>> on the topic of new sanctions,. >> we don't see the prophet of oil benefiting the venezuelan people. the expectations are that, we see in turtle motility and nutritional been at rates higher it for places that syria they have reached their worst levels in the history of venezuela. there's the worst in the country for seen epidemics arrive that has been eradicated in decades ago people are dying because they're not receiving treatment
for chronic illnesses. venezuelans have died of malnutrition. none of the oil profits benefit the people. they're going to the regime, they're being used to buy support, they are being used to buy the weapons of oppression. they're being used to kill venezuelans are the true owners of the resources of the country that the regime is using. so i do not see the oil profits going to the people. i do believe there are other options in play that are
targeted sanctions, sanctions targeting high-level authorities within the regime, that would be one step prior to general sanctions. i think an analysis would need to be made of the collateral damage that could because by a general sanction that we have to see if the government could find a way to bypass the sanctions. in further you would need to determine what the affected be on the community, what percentage of companies would be willing to sign onto such sanctions. again, what might be some of the collateral damage on the people themselves. so that is an analysis that needs to be completed first. >> once that analysis has been
made we need to start with individual sanctions, that chain of command that has caused the protesters, the minister of the interior, the national guard, the defense, the supreme court, the national electoral council, there are authorities that are guilty of torture. in the prisons. those people should be subject individual sanctions. so we have to analyze those options. for going to be taking an important institutional step and whether the crimes committed by the regime, particularly torture could be just as crimes as under their own statute and therefore could be tried in the international court.
that is an institutional step we will be taking today and will likely announce tomorrow. thank you mr. secretary general for your remarks and for sharing with us your perspective on behalf of the venezuelan people. [applause] thank you. >> while the stages reset i would like to take the opportunity to announce the first new tangible product as part of our venezuela strategy. response of truly understanding or better yet acting on the depth of the crisis requires adjusting some of the horrible numbers coming out of the country. our venezuela tracker is a comprehensive source of up-to-date information on the economic, political, social, financial crisis. it's a resource of hard to get, often unattainable yet reliable
data we have gathered led by two of my colleagues, working with a number of people and organizations both in and out of venezuela. this is an ongoing effort. i invite you to go to atlanta council.org backslash venezuela tracker to find the latest numbers of what people are living through everyday right here in our hemisphere. we are launching a data version with economic data on topics related to gdp to exchange rates. we think our panelists for the help. we will go online and look in depth on poverty, hunger and health situation and thank you turn panelists for her help among others in that effort. this is something we will update because we want to provide a clear picture of the entire world and also offer tools to organizations, governments, civil society, media and others
who are working hard to help the citizens of venezuela and find it difficult to get real-time data. the time when the government is ache in the effort to keep information hostage we want to do the opposite. i want to introduce a panelist and asked them to take the stage. our first panelist is luis alfonso, a mexican ambassador having the role in may of 2016 she's a career diplomat served in a number of positions including ambassador to austria and the united nations office in geneva. also one of the foremost leaders at the oas and on the situation about us venezuela someone who fundamentally understands what is happened in the country and is taking a leadership role in that regard. francisco's chief economist in the advancement bank it. prior to joining he served as director and senior bank of
america, merrill lynch. he was director of the venezuelan congressional budget office and he has his fingers on the pulse of the economic situation of venezuela. also we have the direct executive director for justice and peace and works to document counsel to many of the people who are being held hostage by the government. special focus on women's right and works in venezuela where she researched human rights protection. also got up at 2:00 o'clock in the morning to be able to come here from venezuela because the flight out in the middle of the night makes it more likely that you will leave the country. thank you for doing that. our moderator is the new it u.s.
new structure who has over 20 years experience working communications covering commute campaigns in the u.s. and spain. served in commerce and were also thankful for the team for the partnership in our venezuela effort tracker and a host of other things. and i welcome you all to the stage. thank you. [applause] >> i thank you for coming. thank you for the panelists. not going to use you because the system. if you want to follow and contribute to the conversation in our special media use # ac
venezuela. if you want to mention the partners at mtm 24. will be 15 or 20 minutes and open for q&a. what we expect is that conversation among us. thank you. i like to start with the ambassador -- >> you have one career and you know how difficult sometimes doing good is. and you are in a position today with a very critical topic which is venezuela. mexico has a position from a more active the more push position. what has changed for mexico to
take this stage? >> thank you for letting me be here this morning. i'm not so sure we have changed. i think if you grew up and you look into the chief diplomatic relation mexico has been a very active country on a number of occasions on which human rights -- we have the situation in chile just to mention a few topics, but at the world conference of human rights we were very eager to make it clear that you cannot invoke a nonintervention to violate the human rights. >> in cuba also violates human
rights. >> it's a different situation than we have always looked at a quite different. we are pushed cuba on human rights, but you have to make the differences are in the main differences the level of support and the level of legitimacy. in this equation on which cuba has been placed by the u.s. we were the only country in suspension of cuba in the 60s. and this is not the same situation today because you have obviously not only commitments on human rights may on democracy and on the democratic chapter. you have a majority population expressing themselves from that weekend. for us it is quite important to go back to this important and
like in the mayor. in any other hemisphere it needs to be compared to the situation in venezuela because we do not want the similar situation. >> the lack of respect of institutions, so difficult we need to perfect them. >> you have worked in justice and democracy in your work sometimes has been difficult i would say. you have been announcing, could you help us understand how dangerous the situation is.
>> thank you for the opportunity. about the situation in my country and the space to try to explain what is happening really in venezuela. >> this conversation as to do with my role. i human rights defender. our work in recent years has been to help the victims in countries where there is a rule of law. it is illegal on the other end of the institution and applying the protections of the state however we are in a different situation. people are speaking of a humanitarian crisis but we see we have an emergency on her hands. the complex humanitarian
emergency because there are no resources for dealing with a crisis and that's why it's not a crisis, it's an emergency. so it's important to use the right term of what is happening. it is humanitarian because venezuelans are doing. those statistics that are so shocking, that is the reality that we are living. we see a child dying of malnutrition because her mother can't buy milk. a child dying because they can get an antibiotic or people because they can't find a dialysis machine. people who can't buy insulin or get high blood pressure medicine. my mother couldn't get medicine
that used to be so easy to find anywhere else. 200,000 people have chronic illnesses that normally for anyone while sort of problem. you go to the pharmacy to buy medicine but we can't. >> if it's a permanent crisis and it doesn't, or doesn't benefit then doesn't the support for the regime you rode? are people looking for a way out for people to join opposite.
that's what makes it so complicated, the government has a monopoly, control over the food, over medicine, over everything. so if you heard about this in different mechanisms that they use and now of course this manipulation they're using with the assembly, there are all sorts of tricks they use to buy people support. so there are threats, we hope that you and your family will support me if anyone doesn't support them, they are persecuted so a lot of the support the government does enjoy has to do with the persecution that is undermining human rights and civil society that is undermining human rights.
we'll do our work no matter wh what. we want democracy. kiera and -- and we help victims in our organization that in may of 2016 returned to the supreme court of justice. our complaint has not even been accepted or admitted. there is no protection in place. what percentage of support to think there is in the venezuelan society? i guess you can see that it was pretty low. will of course,. >> those who don't have a sense of normalcy and what would one of course is to exercise our
right. >> need to understand the magnitude of the situation. >> will give you some numbers and sometimes numbers were talking about at this very basic level of human tragedy, that's way the economy and 12 and 2016 contracted about 28% rate decline. this year were looking at additional which according to varying estimates can go to five to ten. if you had that in will have a contraction per capita that is close to 35 or 40%. but that a magnitude of their only six countries that i've had this magnitude, were talking about iraq, united arid
emirates, of this country all but one are countries that have been at war. effectively the type of contraction we see associated with arm carved conflict. if you just look at latin american history, there are only two countries that compete with this magnitude of contraction. one is nicaragua during the time of the insurgency and the other is peru during the inflation. venezuela to pass through will become these largest contraction in latin america economic history. at least in recorded history. so this is a huge contraction. obviously it has to do with economic disadvantage men and policy, wrong economic policies and it has to do with decline in oil revenue.
in these two that interact so venezuelan 2012 exported $98 million. oil prices fell in last year it exported $20 billion. that's the decline in oil prices and production because they have to maintain production. it's one of the few countries the others libya that's also in decline. so there's interaction between mismanagement unless resources but there is something i do want to contend that led to the debate. the evidence for the past four years that we have is that when venezuela have left resources its own people suffer. they declined significantly over the past four years as a result of venezuelan revenues. i expect they continue to decline and then there'll be
continued economic contraction and there'll be continued human suffering. >> see you mention the collateral consequences of sanctions, but what in your opinion from the economy? >> those collateral effects. >> i think they could be huge. they would be very careful thinking about sanctions. 95% of venezuelan experts or oil. in their control by the state. so that means that everything that venezuela does, everything they import from the rest of the world is done through the state with the resources the state has access to. that poses a problem. imagine a private sector that is integrated to the rest of the world. if you have a private sector that generates export revenue
and you have a public sector you can cut the lifeline without cutting the lifeline to the people. in the case of venezuela if you cut the lifeline to the government as lifeline to the people. it's not only verifiable, see only way in which inks come into venezuela's with the dollars the government has. so they import with the dollars. if you cut those you're going to cut the resources the government has to undertake repression and also with the government has to undertake food imports. it's a very difficult problem when i'm concern is that we have a humanitarian crisis and emergency and it will imports will come down by another $10 billion. this humanitarian crisis and emergency turns into a catastrophe.
>> especially because my concern of sanctions and a human right sense because of corruption and drug trafficking were also concerned about what can affect the people. let's imagine this is a building where we all live, there's one apartment where the family is fighting, the mother is hitting the kids and the husband is sitting the wife. and we can say well we don't live in that one apartment so it doesn't matter. but you have to say something about it. but if we cut their water, their light, who will suffer from it? everybody in the building because you have to cut the light for the whole building. so out of solidarity at an international level regarding institutions that should be solidarity in collaboration with
civil society, it should be done jointly with any action taken. >> in the international community should they impose sanctions on the oil export? >> it's a more delicate answer to the question because it's more complex. there is no possibility to do it at the international community level except for the security council. it would have to be the security council with their action. it's almost impossible and certain other sanctions would be at the united nations and the general assembly, that would be
an option that has never been done but i think that the question of whether it would be a good or bad idea, i think what's most important is it has not been a punitive exercise were trying to do and it has not been led by the u.s. this is been a collective mission that has the involved international land has tried to find all diplomatic ways to solve the problem. it was presented to do with the democratic charge and suspend venezuela if all the states will know not yet. we have to first two everything possible at a diplomatic level. and then we went with this extraordinary assembly and consultation. and we answered exactly that. we're trying to send a message to the venezuelans that were
still looking for some type of resolution through mediation or something like that. on this, apart from the fact that we don't want to hurt the population anymore sanctions, but sanctions should not only be considered economically, they should be taken into account in a political life. because they could be a political sanction, and exclusion like what is doing or what's happening on her food or what could happen at a certain time if there were more embassies that left venezuela. so there was a group of measures that could be taken before any of these sanctions could be applied or should be applied. we will talk about this next week at the oas. what are they concerned about specifically? at this time, i will go back for
a little bit too concluded it was not a defeat for us, it was a ruptured and so catacomb doesn't work anymore. it doesn't help venezuela. we don't need it. the rest of the countries don't need it, so what was not accepted was this decision of catacomb and therefore fractured and they either went against or to a project proposed by it. so that was something said that it was important, today we will try to include the subject once again and we will continue to work as such. yes, we are exercising pressure so that they do it within the oes and they're trying to promote the diplomatic pressure
on venezuela and led by mexico, colombia, argentina and the united states, and canada. so this exercise, going back to your question on sanctions, think it should be dealt with at the level of the g14. there should be cord needed action, some unilateral. i'm not against any economic measure but perhaps other types of economic measure. >> there some numbers,. >> so u.s. about the popularity, the approval of the government. and there some numbers around 20%. interesting number because it's not as close you would expect given the damage this very interesting debate that you're alluding to, is this invasion?
we do know that in the past they have been more electorally successful. there some part of this that we entered in. we also know when they come up having a high google rating, for venezuelan stone rejected as a hold they might reject the government of maduro but they carry a good memory of president chavez. you know he governed over the oil boom. i wanted to point out and bring back the point of sanctions because you have a very unpopular government. the government that any election that elusive by a three year or 4 - 1 ratio. however we also partnered and on
the effective sanctions will publish the results on monday. but one of those results we as people what their opinion would be of an oil related sanction to purchase venezuelan oil by the united states, 28% support, 62% oppose. so it's a very big risk that the policy measures being considered will backfire politically in terms of giving the government more support in allowing them to characterize these international policy actions as part of things that are hurting venezuela. >> we have a few minutes, it's been over 100 days that people have gone to the streets. there are people dead and injured. that civil society, are they afraid this constant going out to the street may tire out some
of the citizens and therefore will not be enough pressure are not people going out on the street? most of us will go to march, we know when we go out there is a high probability of being arrested, injured or assassinated by the representatives of the government that are abusing their control of the pacific peaceful mimms manifestation. those of us who want restoration of democracy, were trying to do it in a peaceful manner. were trying to find all democratic ways and proposals in our last mass protest wanted to show what we want to do and obtain.
the violent focuses her episodes are generated by the government were trying to repress his protests. so, the citizenry is activating, mobilizing, of course the violation of human rights are message to stop this, but we are still active and were still going to fight democratic ways to obtain international solidarity and all our compatriots brothers and sisters in latin america so that they help us with something that we cannot wait any longer for. >> going to the last topic you mentioned which is the catacomb. the future it is a very solid group, but you need more votes. you need the necessary votes as much as possible to move forward
with resolutions. taking into consideration that one ability is the next step of the g14 to gain those votes were at least half of them. >> if you want to spanish again. >> if you give me that option i will you spanish them. i believe in it is something we are discussing within the g14, i don't think there are exercising pressure on the caribbean, it's very clear which countries are on our side. that we are in favor of the resolution and we are grateful
and we want to protect them and help them because they are being pressured, we should just forget about getting the other, you will get the votes and, doesn't matter, we are right. we have the political weight, the first example would be next wednesday. we have the permanent council so that we put this on the agenda. the g14 we get there and we will debated. if we don't get the four votes that we need, will still discuss it. there are other points in the program and i don't care if we speak of it as a priority, but we will speak of it and there has to be consequences to the reactions of the caribbean.
the consequences should be suffered by those who voted against. there are national interest away recognize that but what you cannot do is go into a negotiation and then not comply with the voters. that you should not two. this was a negotiation happened in groups and there were two sets of negotiator and there was something that one right there on the should be made clear that there are some people that were not faithful to the word of what they had promised. i think the more important issues that we will act independently of the votes. why? because the oas is the organization. someday we'll change in but we can't it from night and day. >> i'm going to ask something delicate. >> okayed the resolution didn't pass it wasn't a failure.
the press, was a failure. they promised to try to manipulate the media. >> well, we've had almost everybody on our side. >> the analysis that was done later were that catacomb depends on venezuelan oil, their hostage to the drug traffickers and corruption. venezuela know some of these cases and therefore controls them. so what you agree or disagree with? >> i think there's an economic reliance but also some honest gratitude on the part of many because venezuela, during many years had a policy towards the development of minutes of silence that other countries do not have. so that includes the u.s.,
mexico, another that had sporadic presence in the caribbean and that has a lot to do with it. the truck traffic and issue undoubtedly has some repercussions, that is more isolated. i think in a general sense everybody acknowledges and there is an issue of oil, but also in great measure the projection of an integral development package that we have never understood the venezuela did understand. so they tried to articulate it and give it a certain sense but that's something we could correct. i don't see why were not doing it. it is not great amounts of dollars. it's more political will. >> i address the question -- other reports that say the
capital in your firm comes from the government, so i don't want to go to the source and the question is are you aware of any capital from the dictatorship? if so when therapy helping the regime? >> that is completely false. all of our financial stations are ordered and you can download them from the fcc webpage. that's false. >> next question. >> if any firm accepts money from the government it would be helping the government same power.
>> user voice. >> and from the wilson center. my question goes to ambassador, it is the block actions and all of these efforts have not works, what are the countries in the region waiting for to take action and acts unilaterally, and perhaps help the venezuelan people? >> have a different idea of whether this has worked or failed. and i will go back to about one year ago before the secretary-general presented his first reports, you cannot even discuss this at the oas, but now it is being discussed frequently
and all the efforts are being made in some resolutions have been approved another snow the out april 31 the press was saying that that they had not obtained the 17 votes. but, it was perhaps ignorance, not that they were being mean, the press, the proposal i made at the time was to adopt it without voting. when you adopt resolution without votes come why account is no opposition and there was no opposition. the fact that resolution was accepted by consensus which is more valuable. but these are technicalities. so going back to what is being done or what will they do? think the matter is before the oas. what we are doing in helping the venezuela is something that is always being considered. such a span done at the oas is
been done bilaterally in some groups within the region the president got together and the minister of foreign relations and yesterday they got together and discuss the matter. we are also discussing possibilities from other types of actions. the strength of this exercise wise and understanding that there is a collective mission of a process that should take place. the people believe that you cannot force the government's case, the venezuelan government to act, then i think they're wrong. i think the pressure has to continue at that level. it will not be military pressure, we don't have coercive measures choose, there are no
governments or supranational institutions that would do this. nor would it be desirable to exist. >> you speak of some things that are being found out, whether there will be sanctions or not. the problem that you described about venezuela and it is a very well, unique compared it historically come this is the product of something worse than sanctions? the venezuelan people will not suffer because the u.s. imposes sanctions or another government, but what the government has done with the oil industry in venezuela because i don't know
of people assign responsibility to the government for hunger, for the violence, if you're speaking of this economic contraction. and that it was mismanagement of their income and so wouldn't it be absurd at this point in history that one little bit more of pressure will harm venezuela when the already been done? that's next line question. >> in the first place, yes, it has been measured. but the government does, i'm sorry, the people do blame the government and that's why they're not popular. so it hasn't gone down as much
as the economic crisis of 2012. what is my fear of the sanctions, and this is a controversial moment, but it's important to clarify this. in 2003, president chavez had 30% approval, now maduro has 20. not too far from there and the opposition is mobilizing to have some type of election venezuela so they can change. and there was a fundamental change that happened in 2002 in december. the venezuelan people said we cannot force this referendum, let's have a general indefinite strike. for protuberant was indefinite in time because they were not able to achieve their purpose so they step striking. so that event market point in the thinking of the people, that is when chivas gained some
points of approval. so the reason i'm afraid of us i have a great deal of fear that when it has been very clear until now and what we have to do with the governments is to leave them alone because when you leave them alone, they will to the harm they're doing and people will realize that it's their fault. there are other factors that complicate the situation that might give credibility to the story that maduro is trying to tell. , it is all the external factors that are harming the people. that is why think it's important to take into account the measure what the effect of public opinion is. all i'm saying is there's an important risk, have no doubt the main responsibility was
happening has to do with government policy. but the risks exist that if sanctions are imposed, they might be used by the government to reinforce this perception that it isn't the government but actions against the government that are hurting them. >> my question is to ambassador, no i'm just from venezuela. i live in washington, night don't work for the embassy. i'm just from the venezuela. my question has to do with what is your perception within the oas, because part of civil society ac that any change perceived as change, positive change of actions by the
government have met the pressure has less effect and that it's not talked about as much. services well, at least they did this. and then the pressure is relieved of it. so my question is, is the venezuelan government, in this case marino does away with the assembly, what would be the level of commitment of the g14 to continue exercising pressure? and so the that doesn't mean the country is less embarked on and just wait for something else before they put more pressure of venezuela. >> and the other question over here and then we will conclude.
>> the u.s. is considering unilateral oil sanctions. >> i am addressing this to the whole panel. we for the question. so if the u.s. does go ahead with the unilateral oil sanctions i'm curious to know how you feel the panel feels this will impact in a kind of international intervention you were talking about? how will affect or deepen the humanitarian or human rights crisis and how will it impact any future recovery? you have to look beyond what's happening now from the path of recovery. i love to hear the thoughts of everybody. >> okay if there is assembly. >> well i don't think were going to see that happen.
and it would be wrong to assume that it would happen. unfortunately the likelihood of them going ahead with the constituent is extremely high but neither scenario i agree that the pressure needs to remain apply. just because we see a prisoner be released or what have you, the underlying issues are still there. so the pressure needs to continue until there is a roadmap if general elections were chosen that would be the easiest path forward for addressing the problem. the chief team but it needs to do is to not worry about the pressure of the caribbean, think
that is something that needs to work on more in the median term and what we could do now is in addition to coordinating better with the u.s. and canada is to work recently with supports in europe and probably supports from some asian states and perhaps even some african states. that's what we need to do now. i don't think there'll be any use in taking it to the united nations. kind of the mechanics very well of what that would look like and i think there would be solidarity with venezuela express there. what we need to do is send the signal that this concern is not limited to the hemisphere. it has a central role to play but is backed by a lot of other people.
>> to try to answer that question, if the u.s. goes ahead with unilateral sanctions, the future of the recovery in terms of humanitarian crisis and democracy. >> let me talk about the economy, i do think there is a risk that it will make the recovery difficult. think about the sanctions they would enjoy things like chevron and pulling out of venezuela. these are fundamental for the oil infrastructure. it would be a divestment of's -- by the way, there's no way they can do that without lifting on cisco which guarantees so they'd have to pay back the sponsors and pay back the cash.
so the country will probably go for a disorderly fault in which many would come in and -- i think it could create a mess that would be very hard for them. takes a lot of time and effort for them to recover from the in a scenario of transition. >> i think that pressure and solidarity are going to be the most important thing from that's it's going to have the best impact for venezuela. we want a peaceful transition to
get out of this emergency. of course were going to need to build a new country. so we need support and action within sanction, which could hurt the venezuelan people. for those who are responsible, we don't want to keep dying of hunger. >> these are some important to understand that if we want successful negotiations we need to have both parties at the table which is very unlikely now going to the level of polarization. we believe in a peaceful solution. we don't want to exacerbate the solution. we want to recognize whatever progress is made. i do think they could step back,
but we applauded the transfer to house arrest and size example that's what we need to do. so historic sanctions the secretary-general already referred to this case in south africa. i would say that you have wallet have to make a very careful analysis of what could work and which ones might not. you have to distinguish between multilateral i would be worried that unilateral sanctions would not be done or cared needed in a way with countries working together. we don't have the political will
or the institutional for to get multilateral sanctions. i shouldn't say that as an investor, but i think regardless of what sovereign nations might decide they need to take into account the impact that any actions of those who are in the g14 that we don't end up further away from the solution then we are now. >> you can visit the website and thanks to the work of many others you will find others in a situation you're venezuela. today i think we understand better what is going on in this country. thank you very much.