tv Ukrainian Foreign Minister Pavlo Klimkin CSPAN July 29, 2014 1:00pm-2:01pm EDT
requirement of daca that they were brought here by someone else. that's not true. daca enter before age 16, under 31 when applying. i think sometimes there needs to be -- i think there's a misunderstanding on daca and some of the things many of us don't like because of the way it basically subverted the regular process. lets move onto something else. what steps made as part of the advance team planning, in anticipation there's some sort of path to legalization. how much has been spent on that? >> i don't specifically missokn. there were efforts to prepare for compensation reform specifically as contemplated in central bill 44. i can certainly get back to you with that information. >> can we have time and money when you get back? >> yes.
>> "new york times" reports prioritizing processing of daca applications over those trying to enter the country lawfully. in fact, until recently a u.s. citizen could obtain green card in five months or left. after instituted daca service diverted attention in typical wait lengthened to 15 months. why are you prioritizing illegal aliens over u.s. citizens. >> first of all, i'm pleased to report i-130 petitions returned within normal processing times. we have surges of work -- >> so you're saying within five months now. >> now win five months or around five months. >> okay. i apologize. around five months or five months? because around five months could be eight. it could be ten. it could be two. i'm trying to get a clarification. >> at five months. >> at five months. thank you. let me go back then. i'm glad it's back where it
should be. why was there a process you were prioritizing these over those who are immediate relatives of u.s. citizens. >> congressman we have surges of work that come from all different sources. our job is to implement entirety of our mission, balance among business. one of the things from the daca experience, we learn important lessons on how we observe surges in work, which is why we were able over time to return to our normal processing times for i-130s. >> okay. again, it's just frustrating i know for those here legally, doing it the right way, to put off any length of time or surge over a program that has put them behind the priority. that's something very frustrating as you look at it. how much is the service spent on daca applications? again, spent moneywise, timewise on this, again, applications. you talk about the surge, how you've adapted, how much you had
to divert. how much does it cost you? >> my understanding, i don't know the specific, i do know the fee collected for employment authorization and biometrics has enabled us for processing daca applicants. >> we can get back to you with specific information. >> my time has expired at this point. >> i just wanted to, as you proceed, it's my understanding, but please confirm this, that all of these applications were paid for by the applicants through their fees. there was no taxpayer funds involved in these application processes. >> congresswoman, that is my understanding as well. >> if the gentleman from georgia will yield back, we'll -- as we wrap up, just a few items we'd
appreciate if you would provide for the committee. first, regarding the daca application, could you provide the metrics by which you can sustain this claim that there's no net expense to this? my understanding, there is no daca fee. there is for biometrics, there is for worker application. if you have 700,000 plus people getting a daca application and there's no application fee, i'd be curious to figure out where under the circumstances those funds. >> we will provide you information on the cost of daca. >> when would you -- when do you anticipate we're going to get this? what's reasonable for us to get these documents? >> would 30 days be appropriate? >> i'm not sure if the information is immediately available, whether it's going to take it time to assemble. >> thirty days. that would be fine. >> next one is, 147 felony
convictions, these are people, daca recipients, 147 referred to ice for removal, we would love to know how many of those have been removed from the united states and have they been referred to ice for removal. probably reverse order. how many referred to ice for removal and how many removed from the united states? we also need updated credible fear numbers, and we would also like to know how many work authorizations have been granted. this would be comprehensive over everything that you do. you can break it out in category, but certainly how many work authorizations have been approved. >> thank you, congressman. we will work to get you that information as soon as possible. >> if you can break that number out for the work authorizations for daca, we would also appreciate it.
again, if it's reasonable to think we could have these questions in the 30-day window. >> i believe so. if i'm mistaken -- >> we hope you can prioritize that. we appreciate your participation here. this concludes today's hearing. i think i thank the witness for attending. that objection all members have five legislative days to submit additional written questions for the witness or additional materials for the record. the hearing is now adjourned.
ukraine's foreign minister pavlo klimkin. he'll discuss violence in his country and talk about the malaysian airliner shot down over eastern ukraine, also u.s. and european sanctions against russia, which are likely to be stepped up as we understand from the associated press today. he'll be speaking in just a moment. live coverage here on c-span3. a quick reminder, this is the final week for congress before they begin their august recess. both chambers are in session today. the houseworking on several bills including one that changes the reporting requirements for the endangered species act. votes throughout the afternoon. the house voting now. live coverage you can watch on c-span. the senate is in recess now but they have been debating the nomination of robert mcdonald for the next veterans affairs secretary. final vote on that scheduled for 2:45 eastern today. later this afternoon senators will return to work in a passage vote in highway and transportation programs. you can see the senate live on
good afternoon and welcome i'm president of the atlantic council. we're honored to have with us today foreign minister of kpr n ukraine pavlo klimkin. it almost seems such an understatement to say at a critical time for his country, existential time, critical time, historic time for his country and international community. some people talk about asymmetrical interest, some have more interest in ukraine than does the west, europe and united states. the atlantic council doesn't believe that. i think a lot of others join us in understanding this is about a rules-based system, about europe whole and free that the ukraine issue is one that has global repercussions. minister klimkin is in washington this week consulting with vice president biden, secretary kerry and congressional leadership on a stronger transatlantic response
to russian aggression. so thank you, mr. minister, for everything you're doing and your country and thank you for this very important trip and this time with the atlantic council. i want to welcome everyone joining us here in the room and via our live broadcast and web stream. we have opened our discussion up to social media through twitter. please use the hashtag ac ukraine, we encourage you to join in. the peace is at the core of our mission. disaster around mh 17 has galvanized the world community even more to understand the cost of what's going on in eastern ukraine and the continued illegal occupation of crimea, standing stark contrast the mission of the atlantic council. it is for this reason we've chosen to lean in, through our ukraine and europe initiative. we've been doing our best to
bring attention to the issues that matter in this crisis and to help shape a strategic response and lasting sustainable outcome both in the u.s. and capitals around europe to smart analysis, high-level briefings, media appearances and programming like this. our initiative began with initiative launched during prime minister yatsenyuk in march. now through the initiative and you can see more on our website, atlanticcouncil.org. while some have been slow to recognize what's at stake in our response to the crisis, recent dates have only further exposed russia's destabilizing roll in eastern ukraine. indeed as the minister speaks, european union and other g-7
partners announcing stiffer sanctions against key members of the russian economy. we magnify the impact of our work through partnerships. one such critical partnership with ukraine, the congress. i'm pleased to hand over to vice president of ukrainian world congress to introduce minister klimkin and vice president will moderate the conversation afterwards. he's a leading canadian businessman, prominent member of ukraine himself, represents 20 million -- i'm sorry about that. please, everybody shut off your cell phones. representing 20 million ukrainians in 47 countries, it's an honor to have you with us. [ applause ] >> thank you, fred.
minister klimkin, representatives of congress, of the senate, executive branch, ambassadors, distinguished guests. i am pleased to bring greetings and introduce prime minister klimkin on behalf of the world congress and atlantic council. the ukrainian world congress which represents the interest of 20 million ukrainians living outside of ukraine in 47 countries around the world has been working with atlantic council to further ukraine europe initiative, which has been providing valuable policy advice to the world's leading decisionmakers. we anticipate concluding a formal cooperation 2k3wr50e789 in the near future. i want to recognize tremendous work done by key world congress represents ukrainian community that being ukrainian congress committee of america and their washington mission head. we are all saddened and rightfully outraged by the downing of malaysian airlines flight 17 by russian mercenaries and by the loss of almost 300
people. there can be no weakening of our resolve to hold putin regime account able for threatening peace of europe and central europe. russia's aggressive militarism and expansionism are a threat to more than just ukraine. they are a threat to europe, united states and canada. to the rule of law and values that bind western nations. we must not stand by idly in the face of the threat. putin can take action to commit to peace, democracy and rule of law or persist with politics of intimidation. eu, u.s., canada and allies must take further action punitive steps to isolate russia from the rest of the world democratic states the values and principles we cherish, so many generation fought and died for demanded. we have gathered today to hear
firsthand from ukraine's minister of foreign affairs about the current situation in ukraine and strategic direction of the government in ukraine. minister klimkin is an experienced and highly regarded diplomat, a physicist and mathematician by training, he has over 20 years experience in ukraine's diplomatic corps. he served as ukraine's deputy foreign minister and around the world in uk and germany most recently serving as the ambassador of ukraine to germany. minister klimkin played a role in signing of eu association agreement having initialed each page of the agreement and perhaps being one of few who actually read it in its entirety. minister klimkin is married to a fellow diplomat and they have two sons. she holds first secretary in ukraine netherlands.
please welcome me in welcoming the minister of foreign affairs pavlo klimkin. [ applause ] it's indeed a pleasure to speak today to the atlantic council and we have today a real proof for transatlantic partnership and transatlantic solidarity. we are talking about the whole civilized world, standing behind us, standing beside us. the recent day just made by the
european union about the next wave of sanctions, of course, we don't need sanctions for the sake of sanctions. it's about the world we live in. it's about the world where we have rules, where we have commitment, where we have legally binding commitments and political commitments. it's about mechanism, how to get back to the status quo, how to get back to the world where we have reliable and predictable people bound by commitment. and moral grounds. because of that, we need solidarity more than ever. we enjoy solidarity here.
and yesterday and today, we got solidarity in the eu and a different situation now. i was ukrainian relations for many years and told, why are we talking about partnership and can't receive real solidarity and real engagement, the case now, unfortunately too late and after a number of tragic events like shutting down the plane, malaysian airline by russian. what is going on now.
this is my point, as the world faces security situation since cuban missile crisis of 1962 is, indeed, about our understanding the situation. it's of course about de-escalation, about understanding the implication for the future. we are still under today more than ever that there is forces still occupy considerable -- we've been advancing quite considerably. and it's about a number of
russian citizens, mainly russian citizens, who have links to russia and special forces. it's not about the people who represent them. it's about propaganda machine. the compilation -- that splitting with ukraine would mean a clean slate in life. the propaganda is working around the globe. they tried to buy some directly, build against. it's okay to intimidate those who refuse to obey. they have everything.
they have the most guns and now they can rely on more sophisticated system which can shoot down international airplanes. there's probably still the ability to buy a rifle on the market. how can you buy the most sophisticated system, how can you get there and how can you teach the terrorist one of the most sophisticated. but russian forces also involved in fighting in recent date we have a number of cases of schelling our troops from the
territory. also in ukrainian airspace, using all kind of systems. it's a situation, war, undward war. we find for truth and democracy on our own plan, because we are punished for our european choice, because we have a clear idea what we need in ukraine. we need and we have clear commitment here. united, democratic, and european ukraine. and we elaborated in signed
agreement not as a sort of symbol but fame work for european. of course it's difficult to carry out important reforms but we're ready to pay this price. we're ready to pay the price because it's about us. it's about europe, it's about ukrainians with our european history, with our european intelligence, but unfortunately not everyone seems to be supporting that paradigm and our
desire to go to europe to be united and democratic country. because of that we still have furthermore oil in donetsk and luhansk because of oil, not because we have any sort of internal conflict here. we are ready to talk to real people, to our people who are probably under russian propaganda. we are ready to embrace any sort of good idea, to give more political and economic power to regions, district and communities. we are ready to show that it's in our common interest to provide, to return to normal
life in donetsk and luhansk. it all started not just in donetsk and luhansk unfortunately the annexation and occupation of crimea seems to be forgotten for many. my message here, crimea was ukrainian, is ukrainian and will be ukrainian in the future. we will never talk -- ukrainian, as part of ukrainian territory. we have not just ukrainians, not just those against this occupation and annexation. a lot of russian speaking people in the crimea who do believe
it's an act of aggression and the mood has been changing. the mood has been changing in crimea. the mood has been changing in donetsk. a couple of months ago russian propaganda, the people were extremely cautious about embracing ideas of freedom and democracy. we are ready to give people more freedom but also more responsibility. now they started -- the mood in crimea has been changing considerably. a lot of people got to understand is going nowhere.
it's a dead-end. of course it's about our commitment, but it's also about commitment of the whole international community, ukraine, to its independence, to inviability, also commitment to help. and we feel this commitment exactly right now. unfortunately, it took also such tragic cases like shutting down malaysian airlines airplane. around the globe from the beginning how to legislate unrestricted access to the site of the crash, how to carry out
fully transparent and effective investigation. we set up a team not from our -- not only from our authorities but also the best international gift. dutch representative, malaysian representatives, our friends and partners from the u.s., uk, switzerland, germany to join the investigation. who are that we were ready and we performed the idea for takes over the lead for this investigation to our dutch friends and partners. and will provide fully transparent and open
investigation. and it's not about -- it's about people who gain. it's not about the people, about the terrorist who came to the crash site dragging the bodies without any sign of human dignity. and from the very beginning we proclaimed universal cease-fire for the whole radius area at the crash site. in order not just to recover but also to recover all personal belongings, to give this personal belongings to the last one in france and to be a tribute to the people.
but in all states of the investigation, the terrorist had been trying to hinder the investigation. although we've seen the debris of the airplane, there will be no way. how they going to wipe out any evidence and any trace of evidence. will know the truth and will take the culprits to their responsibility. and if you will be our top priority for now and for the near e nearest future. we are not for military
solutions in donetsk and luhansk, not about military offenses, it's about the commitment to this, about presidential peace plan which has three main components. de-escalation on the ground, humanitarian assistance but also restoration for infrastructure. what they have been doing disrupting any sort of critical infrastructure, water pipeline, gas pipeline. and now we are in charge. we are paying for restoration. it's about getting law and order back. it's about restoring normal supplies there. it's about returning normal life to everyone.
but of course it's about bilateral cease-fire because we paid for our commitment to cease-fire with human lives, more than 100 military men wounded. the terrorist broke this fire more than 100 times. now about bilateral cease-fire. about breakthrough, because terrorists, teachers, businessmen, and of course about present on the ground from the very first moment. so again, we're submitted to the settlement.
there's no way to let it become another frozen conflicts. we have enough conflicts in europe. we need to get rid of all of them and not create another one. so we will be consistent and committed and we will fight for donetsk and luhansk as part of our territories, the land where ukrainians lived and live. and for democracy and war on this territory. of course it's about european votation, systemic reforms in ukraine, not only economic reform but also rule of law.
we're not ideal country, we have a long way to go. but our way is the way to european wellness, to european union, is the way to european standouts. and we will go this way, doesn't matter how difficult it will be and what price we should pay for th that, because it's the choice of all ukrainians, national consensus in ukrainian. consensus in ukrainian society, it's consensus in ukrainian politics. and on the way to european union to become democratic european
and united country. of course we need a different security arrangement for ukraine. we are completely different situation now. we always said we have lack of trust, now we have no trust among many hectors in europe. we have to restore this trust. but we have to restore the trust in a way that not that should also be aimed at restoring the status quo. we should also aimed at restoring, we should be aimed at sticking to international law and to political commitments.
it's our way, it's our commitment. real solidarity, real engagement from anyone here or anyone in the european union, different corners in this world. it's exactly the prerequisite, exactly the precondition for our succe success. will make you create success. not the first state, however, someone could try to present us. in the real dem cravaack, european country, success in europe and success in the world. many thanks for your attention and i'm ready to take your questions. [ applause ] >> thank you very much, mr.
minister, that was in inciteful set of remarks. i'm with atlantic council, delighted to be able to host a conversation. we want to follow up your remarks here and dig a little deeper on some of the issues, particularly so much in the news today. i i want to remind you following along on social media, use #acukraine. i want to welcome back to atlantic council. we shared a stage in july 2011. perhaps exactly three years ago. in a conference i had with others with us today. at the time you were deputy minister very much engaged in european union, full bore moving forward with negotiations of complicated texts for association agreement, yet you also got an earful while you
were here about concerns about what was happening at the political level with the erosion of democratic institutions and practices in ukraine at the time. as i worked with minister cripple coli klimkin, this is a democrat throughout teams demonstrated principled approach to policy, always had a degree of strange clarity of ukraine belonging in europe and who has been effective pursuing those goals. we're delighted to see you back in washington empowered to pursue that, again, in very difficult circumstances. so lets pick up conversation if we may. your visit was prompted, in fact, by the downing of the malaysian airlines, that horrible tragedy that killed nearly 300 people in donetsk. since that time it's been more apparent to a broader swath of the international community of russia's involvement in ukraine. their fingerprints were more obvious to a wider number of
actors in the international community such that many key capitals thought this might be the time for president putin to take a pause, think, okay, this has gone too far, time to step back before providing momentum to further actions against russia. what we've seen since the downing of airlines has been what many termed a doubling down in terms of russia support, separatists, supply of arms and actual attacks on ukrainians from russia territory. i just want to ask you about this phase of the conflict. what is happening right now in terms of putin's objective, putin's strategy. what do you think russia is aiming for in the aftermath of the downing of the airlines. >> for many of us and surely for all of us, downing of malaysian airplane was a real game
changer, was a real rubiconin the as soon as many of us didn't understand fully the significance of what was going on in the eastern ukraine, the capabilities the terrorists have for such actions like shutting down an airplane and many not here but partly also in europe, somehow what is going on in donetsk and a kind of window. now this case was like a stone actually somehow put in the window and completely changed the perceptions there. but if you follow russian sense
of that, do you see any sort of considerable change. we were -- changed by events around this case. but was there real opportunity also for moscow to change a different approach, it's exactly the issue. the destabilizing has been going on now for weeks and months, but the real idea isn't just donetsk and luhansk, the real idea is the whole ukraine. the idea is not -- so it's about
commitment. it's about our commitment, but it's also about continuous pressure on russia to influence russian backed terrorists. and after the tragedy with the plane, my approach would be a clear message, take back -- you should take back, return a number of terrorist leaders who are russian citizens who have clear link to russian security services and who don't represent donetsk and luhansk in any way. it could change the perception around escalation and it could enable us the possibility to talk to real representative. >> let me ask you, you're laying
out a pathway for de-escalation. in the last hours we heard from national security adviser lincoln who said that we've seen a significant rebuildup of russian forces along the border petitioning russia for humanitarian or peacekeeping in ukraine. since the cease-fire just as ukrainian forces made progress on the ground, the white house seems to be signaling their deep concern about not just russian direct supplies and support for the so-called separatist but perhaps for so-called direct intervention in ukraine. do you feel that threat, that possibility today. >> first, i would not talk about any sort of humanitarian intervention. not in the sense of international law and whichever sense. intervention is intervention.
any case of ukrainian territory from russian territory, represents the sense of u.n. charter. so aggression is aggression. i'm pretty confident that we could avoid further escalation of the situation. but if aggression comes, you'll fight this aggression with any means we have at our disposal. >> you've been working with secretary kerry just today and yesterday. with european union foreign ministers on these so-called off ramps, paths for did of de-esca you mentioned and remarks. do you think there's a chance president putin will take that opportunity to pursue the so-called off-ramp.
it's striking a if you opportunities available in the international community but each time russia hasn't gone down that path. anything changed? >> that is my point. i said we don't need sanctions for the sake of sanctions but we need continuous and clear international pressure on russia to change russia stance on ukraine overall but also on do not ufc and luhansk in order to be able to deescalate situations there. you probably need to moscow and putin and ask discretion directly, so a lot of public attention. but in general, i believe we should have a chance. i believe in this chance. it's extremely difficult.
it's extremely tricky the only way how we can pull it off is a joint action. not just ukraine, not just european union, not just u.s. and the normal russian strategy, stance was always to split different efforts and different in the european union. now about solidarity. >> so mr. minister, we'll supplement the mic. part of your job as foreign minister is to enlist support for ukraine. i think that's what you've been doing in washington and travels in europe. you're here today after weeks, if not months, of debates in western capitals about moving forward to so-called sector wide, next sanction that is have a stronger bite against elements
of the russian -- sensitive elements of the russian economy. we're seeing news coming out of brussels that the european union is moving now in that direction. the white house has said has sa will follow in due course. these sanctions are designed not just to punish russia but to deter. can i ask for your reaction, your comment on this final decision, this latest round of decisions on sectoral sanctions. >> well, firstly, i don't believe that the previous sanction were effective in the sense they would be able to influence russian behavior on ukraine, but it's a way how the sanctions were imposed, but now we are talking about really
minor but already sanctions which could hurt not russian economy and a smart way how they are introduced by different sectors like defense or like the possibility to access financial markets for russian state institutions. for institutions that are normally used for driving forward russian policy, and this is an important issue, and it is an issue everyone here, everyone in the european union should simply ask himself or herself, what kind of russian behavior can we tolerate? a if russia, and we have the case
of russia broke international law but also political commitments, we need to have an instrument how to return to the status quo, how to return to the world where we have rules and where such rules are respected by anyone. and developments around ukraine showed that such mechanisms are not there, so they are under development. so we are kind of a test case and hopefully a good one, not a bad one. >> i want to get some time to take some questions from the audience. if you catch my eye i will bring you into the conversation with the in my opiniminister. >> you have seen some reactions in the sanctions front but what -- what does ukraine need most and without betraying the confidences of your meetings here in washington, what are you
asking for and what are you getting? what's on the list that ukraine needs most urgently in this crisis? >> it's about short term and it's about midterm. it's about support for reforms in ukraine, reforms not just in the economic sphere but also for judicial system, rule of law. it's about financial support because we have very good imf program and the only condition which hasn't been taken into account is undeclared war in donetsk and luhansk. we also need further assistance for our military capabilities and it's also the issue now and for the future, and we need, of course, real solidarity, real solidarity from the european
union on the spheres like energy, on the spheres like european integration, and i also can follow the change in atmosphere both here and in the european union from the perception of partnership towards real solidarity and engagement, and it's probably, you know, later than we wanted to, but it's already a fact of life. >> one quick follow-up, we've been doing a lot of work on the hill and there's been a very active debate about the right kind of military assistance for ukraine because you're in a conflict today. are you seeing movement, progress on that particular issue and then i'll turn to the audience. >> yes, and not only here in d.c. last week we were able to
railroad a veto for supplies from the european union which has been imposed on the 20th of february, so we have different options and different ways now, but, again, it's not about just our military capability. it's about reform and reshuffle for the whole security sector in ukraine. not only for military forces, but it's not all aimed at military solution. it's about clear idea how to discover situations, but we need such reshuffled military forces and security sector in order to provide law and order in ukraine and to be able to defend ourselves. >> mr. minister, there's so much expertise in this room on ukraine. i want to turn and bring the audience in. if the mic runner can come up,
we'll have anders. if you can introduce yourself, your affiliation and ask a brief question. i will bring in a couple questions. >> peterson institute for national economics. you were the chief negotiator of the european association agreement and it would be interesting to see -- to hear from you what you think of the most important things that ukraine can benefit in the short term from this association agreement. will it really open up the market so that ukraine can export to europe when russia is closing its market. how will it help you to reform the ukrainian state? will it help you to bring the rule of law to a greater extent to ukraine. >> thank you, anders. let me pick up a second question with the ambassador here in the front. >> thank you, minister. you spoke a lot about sanctions,
defense, and for me this sounds like minimum what would do in defending the situation. so it's kind of reaction defense, but do you feel the support from the washington on something else that was very important for the baltic states to make it successful, vision to make you part of the west? do you feel the leadership of washington in pushing for membership in eu for example? >> thank you. please, mr. minister. >> well, firstly, it was always my point after implementation of the agreement, i mean after full implementation, ukraine will look like a different country, a real european country, because the agreement is about reforms in the fipolitical sphere, economic sphere, and the key
idea of the agreement is flexibility and the idea to -- and we can effectively carry out trade with asia or latin america on the basis of -- but we can't access the eu market without adapting the whole -- not the whole but at least considerable part. and the most powerful neighboring market for ukraine with a lot of opportunities there, and if you talk to our business, the people are simply thrilled and enthusiastic about the future opportunities. the only point how quick, how sensibly quick we can use this
opportunity, and probably in one month, in two months, it will be still difficult to enjoy the full power of the association agreement, so it should be our challenge to implement -- to start implementing the agreement as soon as possible, but it should be also of the challenge for the european union to assist us in the implementation in the ways the european union assisted the new member states. so the ideas, the instruments, is simply not sufficient for effective implementation and we've been working now on a number of new ideas, and, you know, the window for this idea is open, so we need, of course, your support. the idea of influencing the eu
for a membership perspective, it was always my point and i'm fully confident that because of ongoing changes in the european union and the whole of the european continent, it's not, you know, the most pressing issue to fight for formal recognition of membership perspective, but it's key now to get european perspective. european perspective in the sense that ukraine could become a member of the european union if ukraine is ready and fully capable to deliver on relevant eu criteria.