tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN July 30, 2014 11:00pm-1:01am EDT
refusal of the tea party republicans to negotiate with us in any way or even to negotiate with the regular republicans. this is why the government was shut down last october. it was because of the absolute refusal to negotiate about what we should do. i think that that's political malfeasance. i think that everybody even including the tea party republicans should take a deep bre breath and say how can we sit down and negotiate and work together for the future of this country. >> i have time for just a few more calls. fort lauderdale florida is up next. stephen good morning. >> caller: good morning. thank you for taking my call. my comment is on the border
and -- thank you for taking my question. my name is steve -- >> we can laer you ghear with yd with your question. >> caller: my question was before the election each candidate promised the jobs and immigration reform and they promised that they keep all of the -- what do they call that, when you have food stamps and all of that stuff. they promised the old people they would give them their -- you know, their social programs. you have -- they promised old people they would protect their social security. we don't have enough young people paying into the system to do all of these things. now he wants billions of dollars to secure the border. they want -- that's how they get elected by promising everybody everything. but if you have your home bank
account and you pay all of your bills and you only get $700 a week and you pay out $6,000 a week how long do you think that's going to last? >> well here is the good news is. the good news is that because of the economy that's recovering. i think it's recovering too slowly but at least it is recovering. the deficit has really started to drop way back down. that's something that we don't see in the press too often. the deficit was really spiraling out of control and now it's dropped back down. something that we need to do now, i think, is we need to sit down in a bipartisan way and we need to say, okay, what where he going to do about tax code so it's more equitable for middle class americans so we're not continuing the huge gap, the biggest in history between the top 1% of tax payers and everybody else in it country. how do we encourage companies to
bring jobs back into the united states instead of taking them offshore? can he with do that and then that would create american jobs. what can we do to keep our programs like medicare and social security solvent for the next generations? while it's working okay now. in 15 or 20 years, it will start to go broke because as the caller says, there are so many more seniors than young people. all of these problems, big as they are, they can be fixed if we have the political will to do it. i think we need to sit down in a bipartisan way and do that rather than just having these partisan/burn policies like the sequester which was very devastating to a lot of things in our economy. >> let's try to get in george in
whi wichita, kansas. >> caller: good morning congresswoman. in 1924 through 1965, the united states suspended immigration in this country to give those millions who had came up to that point in time time to asimulate to the american culture. look at what the country accomplished during those 40s decade. secondly, your comment a moment ago about political malfeasance, the problem with our immigration system, everybody says it's broken. that's like you buying a car, diving it from the dealership home in your garage and never using it again. you cannot -- nothing is broken unless you try to use it. what's really broken is the political system in this country. on both sides of the aisle. >> do you want to give the congresswoman a chance to respond. >> well, you know let me say
that all of those years that george talks about where he says there was no immigration, we didn't have 11 million people who were here on an undocumented status in the shadows of society and whose families were being separated apart. rather than pretending that that doesn't exist, many people growing number on both sides of the aisle and a growing number in the business community are saying, look, these folks are here. many of these folks have been here. we need to security our borders. we need to figure out what their status is going to be and then we need to have a reasonable immigration program that will give people temporary visas if they need it or whatever they need but let's not just go along for year after year with 11 million people here who are here in undocumented status. if i have time just for one story. you know, i was at an event in
denver and i met this young woman. she was in her high school class. she was a brilliant and beautiful young woman. she wanted to go to college to become an architect. so we have it in colorado called the asset program. it's the ability of undocumented children to get state college tuition. so she was able to get instate college stewitituition to go to college. after she graduates from college, she doesn't have a social security card, she won't be able to get a job. i don't really think that's the american dream. i think we need to get a regular status. we need to secure our border but we need to do something about all of these folks who are here right now. that's what i think we could really do if we sat down in a bipartisan way because i think aside from congress, i think there's a growing consensus in the country with this. >> congresswoman diana degette
democrat from colorado. appreciate your time morning. >> thanks take care. >> on the next journal minneapolis congresswoman talks about the recent conflict between israelis and palestinians. >> representative tom rice discusses the house republican lawsuit against president obama plus your phone calls, facebook comments and tweets. washington journal is live at 7:00 a.m. eastern on cspan. >> a house subcommittee is holding a hearing on implementing the health care law. the next open enrollment period for buying a health care plan starts november 15th and ends february 15th. we will hear testimony about whether the government's website will be ready for the ep ronrolt process. you can see that hearing starting live at 9:15 eastern on
cspan 3. >> remarks on a former palestinian prime minister on recent violence between the israelis and palestinians. he will speak at the atlanta counsel. that recent starts live at 3:30 p.m. eastern also on cspan 3. >> author silva morris is our guest on this week he's q and a. >> she was so beautiful and so smart and also so witty that she became -- she was just always irresistible to men. i never saw in old age, i gave her 18 birthday party. the washington columnist richie cohen was at this party. they sat together after having coffee. at one point she began to stroke his beard. he said heavens i've never met an 18-year-old before that i wanted to leap into bed with. she had this vampish quality.
>> sharing about their personal relationship during her final years. sunday night at 8:00 eastern and pacific on cspan's q and a. >> now remarks from ukraine's foreign minister pavlo klimkin and u.s. and european sanctions in russia. he spoke at the european counsel for an hour. >> good afternoon. welcome ierm president and ceo of the atlantic council. we're conseled to have with us today the foreign minister of ukraine, mr. klimkin. it almost seems such a great understand statement to say at a
litt critical time for his country. a historic time for his country and for the international community. some people talk about interests that perhaps the russians have more interests in ukraine than does the west. europe and the united states. the atlantic council doesn't believe that. i think a lot of others join us in understanding this is about a rules based system about europe whole and free. that the ukraine issue is one that has global repercussions. mr. klimkin is in washington this week consulting with vice president biden, secretary kerry and congressional leadership on a stronger transatlantic response to russian aggression. so thank you mr. minister for everything you're doing in your country and thank you for this very important trip and this time with the atlantic counsel. i want to welcome everyone joining us here in the room and via our live broadcast and web stream.
we have opened our discussions up to social media through twitter. please use the #ac ukraine. we encourage you to join in. as i said the idea of europe whole and free in peace is at the core of our mission. the disaster around mh 17 has galvanized the world community even more to understand the costs of what's going on in eastern ukraine and the continued illegal occupation of crimea. standing in stark contrast to the very mission of atlantic counsel. it is more this very reason we've chosen to lean in through our ukraine and europe initiative. we've been doing our best to bring attention to the issues that matter in this crisis and to help shape a strategic response and a lasting sustainable outcome both in the u.s. and capitals around europe through smart analysis, high level briefings, media appearances and programming like
this. our initiative began with a running start. 100 day initiative that we launched during the visit of prime minister's visit to washington in march. now sustainsustai sustained through our europe and ukraine inyaitiative. recent days have only further exposed russia's destabilizing role in eastern ukraine. indeed as the minister speaks, the european union, the ut and other g 7 partners are announcing stiff new sanctions against key sectors of the russian economy. we magnify the impact of our work through partnerships that we forge one such krcritical partnership is with the ukrainian world congress. i'm therefore pleased to hand
over to paul grod, vice president of the ukrainian world congress to introduce mr. klimkin. he is a leading canadian businessman. a prominent member of the ukrainian world congress representing 20 million -- i'm sorry about that. please everybody shut off your cell phones. t representing 20 million ukrainians in 47 countries. paul it's an honor fof yto have with us. >> dear minister klimkin, ambassadors, i am pleased to bring greetings and introduce minister klimkin on behalf of the ukrainian world congress and the atlantic world counsel which
represents the interest of 20 million ukrainians living outside of ukraine in 47 countries around the world has been working to further their ukrainian world initiative. we anticipate concluding a formal cooperation agreement in the very near future. i also want to recognize the tremendous work been done by a key member that represents the ukrainian american community being the ukrainian congress committee of member and their washington head. we are all saddened and rightfully outraged by the downing of malaysian airlines mh 17 by russian verse innamers in by the last of that many people. russia's aggressive mill it arism and expansionism are a threat to europe, the united
states and canada to the rule of law and to the values to bind western nations. we must not stand by idol by by the face of this threat. the choice is mr. putin's. you can take these actions to recommit russia to peace, democracy and the rule of law or you can persist with the politics of intimidation and aggression in which case the eu, the u.s., canada and its allies must take further action, more punitive steps to isolate russia from the rest of the world's democratic states. the values and principles we cherish for which so many generations have fought and died for demand it. we have gathered to here first hand of ukraines a minister of foreign affairs about the strategic government of ukraine. the minister is an experienced and highly regarded diplomat. a physicist and imagihas served
foreign minister and around world most recently serving as the ambassador of ukraine to germany. minister klimkin played a key role of ukraine's recent signing of the agreement and perhaps being one of few who have actually read it in its entirety. minister klimkin is married to a fellow diplomat and they have two sons. they holds the post of first secretary at the embassy of ukraine in the netherlands. please join me in welcoming ukrain's minister of foreign affairs pavlo klimkin. [ applause
[ applause ] >> it's indeed a pleasure to speak today at the atlantic couns counsel. we have today a real proof of transatlantic partnership and transatlantic solidarity. we are talking about the whole se civilized world standing by us. staying behind us. there is a decision today just made by the european union about the next wave of sanctions. of course we don't need sanctions for the sake of sanctions. it's about the world we live in.
it's about the world where we have rules where we have commitments, where we have legally binding commitments and political commitments. it's about mechanism. how to get back to the status we could. how to get back to the world where we have reliable and predictable people bound by commitments and moral grounds. because of that, we need solidarity more than ever. we enjoy solidarity here and i got it from every meeting yesterday and today. we got solidarity in the eu and in this different situation now.
it was my point, why we're talking about partnership and can't proceed to real solitarity and real engagement. it is the case now. unfortunately too late and after a number of tragic events like shutting down plane of malaysian airlines by russians. what is going on really now? i believe -- this is my point. i leave the world faces now a real security situation since the cuban missile crisis of 1962. it's indeed about hour understanding of the situation.
it's of course, about reacting to the situation and about de k deescalation and understanding of the situation for the future. we're still under attack in ukraine today more than ever. the terrorist forces still occupy considerable part of the region. although we've been advancing quite considerably. it's about a number of russian citizens, mainly russian citizens who have links to russian special forces who lead the terists. it's in the about the people who represent them.
it's about propaganda machine. a splint within ukraine would mean a clean slate in life. the pro oe beganed propaganda around the clock. they tried to buy some directly building of criminal gangs and seduce others. they still hate ukraine. intimidate those who refuse to obey. they have everything. they have the most modern fire guns. now they can rely on more sophisticated system which can shoot down international airplan airplanes. you can imagine, there is probably still a possibility to
buy a rifle on the black market but how can you get the most sophisticated anti-air defense system. how can you get that. how can you get the ter irorist to operate one of the most so sophisticated anti-air defense systems? russians are more involved in fighting. in the most recent days we've had a number of cases of shelling our troops in the russian territory. also intruding in ukrainian air space. using all kinds of systems. it's a kind of -- situation.
undeclared war at unfair costs because we fight for truth and democracy. because we are punished for our european choice. because we have a clear idea what we need in ukraine and we need and we have clear commitme commitment. united democratic and european ukraine. we elaborated in the agreement not as a sort of symbol which is important for our european integration but as a framework for the future for european oriented reforms. of course it's difficult to
carry out important reforms but we are ready to pay this price. we are ready to pay this price because it's about us. it's about europe. it's about ukrainian with our european history, with our european mentality with our vocation to europe. unfortunately not everyone seems to be supporting that paradigm and our desire to go to europe to be united and democratic country. because of that, we still have turmoil. we have turmoil not because we have any sort of internal
conflicts here. we are ready to talk to real people, to our people, who are probably under russian propaganda. we're ready to embrace any sort of good idea to give more political and economic powers to regions, districts, and communities. we are ready to show that it's in our common interest to provide -- to return back to a normal life. it's all started not just there, unfortunately. the annexation and occupation of the crimea seems to be forgotten
for many. my message here, crimea is -- was ukrainian, is ukrainian, is will be ukrainian in the future. we have vision for that. we will never stop fighting for crimea as a part of ukrainian territory. we have a lot not just of ukrainians, not just crimeans, who are against this occupation and annexation. we have a lot of russian speaking people in the crimea who do believe it's an act of aggression and the mood actually has been changing. the mood has been changing in crimea. the mood has been changing a couple of months ago under russian propaganda, the people
were extremely cautious about embracing the ideas, the ideas of freedom and democracy. with the wide range in decentralization, we're ready to give people more freedom but also more responsibility. now the mood in the crimea has been changing considerably. a lot of people got to understand are going nowhere. it's a dead end. of course, it's about our commitment but it's also about commitment of the whole international community to ukraine, to its independence, to
viability of borders and also commitment to assist and to help. we feel this commitment exactly right now. unfortunately, it took also such tragic cases like shutting down the malaysian airlines airplane. we have been working around the clock from the very beginning and how to negotiate full and unrestricted access to the site of the crash. on how to carry out fully transparent and effective investigation. we set up a team not from our -- not only from our authorities but also the best international team.
we invited dutch representatives, malaysian representatives, our friends and partners from the u.s. uk. switzerland, germany, to join the investigation. more that we were ready and we performed the idea of taking over the lead for this investigation to our dutch friends and partners. it will provide also for fully transparent and open investigation. it's not about barbarians. it's about the people who came to the crash site. it's not about the people -- about the terrorists who came to the crash site without any sign
we will show the truth. we will take the culprits to their responsibility. it will be our top priority for now and for the nearest future. we are not for a military solution. it's not about military offensive. it's about this. it's about clear commitment to peace. it's about presidential peace plan which has three main
components. deescalation on the ground, humanitarian assistance, but also restoration of infrastructure. what they have been doing. they've been disrupting any sort of critical infrastructure, water pipe lines, electricity networks, gas pipe lines and now we are in charge. we are paying for the restoration. it's about about getting law and order back. it's about restoring normal supplies there. it's about returning the normal life to everyone. of course it's about the bilateral cease-fire because we paid for our commitment to unilateral cease-fire with human lives with more than 100 of our military men wounded.
terrorist broke cease-fire more than 100 times. now it's about bilateral cease-fire. t the, of course, it's about to be present o on the ground from the very first moment. so again, we are fully committed to the peaceful settlement. there is no way how we will let it become another frozen conflict. we have enough frozen conflicts in europe. we need to get rid of all of them and not to create another one. so we will be consistent and
committed and we will fight as part of our territory as the land where ukrainians lived and live. and for democracy and this territory. of course it's about european vocation. of course, it's about systemic reforms in ukraine. we're not an ideal country but we have a long way to grow but our way is the way to european union. is the way to european standards. we will go this way.
does not matter how difficult it could be. what price we should pay for that because it's the choice of all ukrainians. it's the national consensus in ukraine. it's consensus in ukrainian society. it's consensus in ukrainian politics. we will further this consensus. we will strengthen it up on the way to the european union to become democratic european and united country. of course we need a different security arrangements for ukraine. we are in completely different situation now. we always said we had lack of trust. now we have no trust among many
actors in europe. we have to restore this trust. but we have to restore this trust in a way that should also be aimed at restoring the status quo and should also be aimed at restoring the rule based world. it should be aimed at sticking to international law and to political commitments. it's our way. it's our commitment. we feel the real solidarity. we feel the real engagement from anyone here. from anyone in the you're oeuro union from different corners of
this world. it's exactly the prerequisite. it's exactly the precondition for our success. we will make ukraine a real success. not just the failed state however someone could try to present us but in the real democratic and euro pean countr, success in europe and success in the world. manyattention. i am ready to your your tensio tensions. >> thank you very much mr. minister. that was an insightful set of remarks. my name is damon wilson. i'm executive vice president here at the atlantaic counsel. we want to follow-up your remarks and dig a little deeper
on the issues. i want to remind all of you who are following this on line please follow along using the #acukraine. i want to start by welcoming back minister klimkin to the atlantic counsel wext sha. we shared a stage in july of 2011 exactly three years ago on a conference that i did. at the time, you were deputy minister, very much engaged in the negotiations with the european union moving forward with the negotiations with this complicated text for the association agreement and you also got an earful about concerns about what was happening at the political level with the erosion of democratic practiced and institutions in ukraine at the time. as i've worked with minister klimkin over the years. this is a diplomat who has
demonstrated a principaled approach to policy who has always had a degree of strategic clarity of ukraine belonging in europe. we're delighted to see you back in washington this time but again in very difficult circumstances. so let's pick up the conversation if we may when we first -- you're visit here was prompted in fact by the downing of the malaysian airlines in that horrible tragedy that killed nearly 300 people. since that time it's been more apparent i'd say to a broader swath of the international community of russia's involvement in the conflict in ukraine. their fingerprints are more obvious to a wider number of actors in the international community such that many key pl capitols that this might be the time for president putin to take a pause and it's time to step back before actually providing more momentum to further actions against russia. yet what we've seen since the
dawni downing of the airlines has been what many have determined as a doubling down for separate support and spy of arms and actual attacks from ukrainian forces on russian territory. i wanted to ask you about this phase of the conflict. what is happening right now in terms of putin's objective. his strategy. what do you think russia is aiming for in the aftermath of the downing of the airlines? >> well, for many of us, actually for all of us, downing of the malaysian airplanes was a real game changer in the sense that many of us who simply did not understand fully the significance of what is going on in eastern ukraine of the
capabilities that terrorists have for such actions like shooting down an airplane. many not here but partly also in europe somehow watch ed what is going on through a window. and now, this case was like a stone actually. somehow put in the window and completely changed the perceptions there. but if you follow the russian stance of that, do you see any sort of considerable change? [ inaudible ] >> we were all changed by the tragic events around this case
but where was there real opportunity also from moscow also to change a different approach onboard? it's exactly the issue. the destabilizing has been going on now for weeks and months. the real idea is not just there but the real idea is the whole ukraine. the idea is not -- [ inaudible ] >> so it's about commitment. it's about our commitment. it's also about continuous pressure on russia to influence the russian backed terrorists
and after the tragedy with the plane, my approach would be a clear message, take back -- you should take back -- you should return the number of terrorists leaders who are russian citizens who have clear link to the russian security services and who don't represent in any way. it could change the perception around escalation and could enable us the possibility to talk to real representatives. >> so let me ask you mr. minister you're laying out a path way of deescalation yet in the past 24 who ares we heard from our deputy national security advisor, who said that we've seen a significant rebuild up of russian forces along the border potentially positioning russia for so called humanitarian or peace keeping
intervention in ukraine. so since the cease-fire just as ukrainian forces have made progress on the ground, the white house seems to be signaling their deep concern about not just russian direct supplies and support for the so called separatists but perhaps for this so called so called humanitarian direct intervention in ukraine. do you feel that as a possibility today? >> firstly i would not talk about any sort of humanitarian intervention not in the sense in the international law or whatever sense. intervention is intervention. any case of shelling ukrainian territory from the russian territory actually represents the act of aggression in the sense of un charter. so aggression is aggression. i'm pretty confident that we
could avoid further escalation of the situation but if aggression comes, we will fight this aggression with any means we have at our disposal. >> so you've been working with secretary kerry just today and yesterday. you were in brussels last week working with european foreign ministers on the so called off-ramps. these paths or deescalation in your remarks. do you think there's any chance that president putin will take that opportunity to pursue a so called off-ramp as you're saying? it's striking that have been quite a few opportunities that have been made by many in the international community and each time russia hasn't gone down that path. has anything changed that putin might pursue that direction? >> it's my point. i said we don't need sanctions for the sake of sanctions.
we need continuous and clear international pressure on russia to change the russian stance on ukraine overall in order to be able to de-escalate situations there. you probably need to invite putin and ask him this question directly so it would be quite a lot of public attention to this event. but generally, i believe we should have a chance. i believe in this chance. it's extremely difficult. it's extremely tricky. the only way how we can pull it off is a joint action not just ukraine, not just european union. not just u.s. the normal russian strategy,
normal russian stance was always to split different efforts in different [ inaudible ] now it's about solitarity and speaking with one voice. uksz m . >> mr. minister we will supplement the mic. part of your job -- part of your job as foreign minister is to enlist support for ukraine. i think that's what you've been doing here in washington and injure travels in europe. you're here today after weeks if not months of debates in western capitals about moving forward to the so called sector wide sap sanctions. the next stage of sanctions that have a stronger bite against sensitive elements of the russian economy. we are seeing that the european union is moving in that direction. the white house said they would follow in due course with other g 7 partners. these sanctions are designed not just to punish russia but to
deter. can i ask for your comments on this final decision. this latest round of decisions on sectorial sanctions and your assessment of how the sanctions policy has been effective or not in influencing russian behavior? >> well, firstly, i don't believe that the previous sanction were affective in a sense. they would be able to influence russian behavior on ukraine but in a national way, when the sanctions were imposed. now we're talking about really minor but already sanctions which could hurt not russian economy. it is a smart way how they are introduced by different sector like defense or like the
possibility to access financial markets or russian state institutions. for institutions that are normally used for driving forward russian policy. in this sense it's an important issue. it is the issue everyone here, everyone in the european union should simply ask himself or herself what kind of russian behavior can we tolerate? it's a clear point here. if russia and we have case of russia broke international law but also political commitments, we need to have an instrument of how to return to the status quo. how to return to the world where we have rules where such rules
are vorespected by anyone. developments around ukraine showed that such mechanisms are not there. so they are under the devel development so we're kind a test case for them and hopefully a good one not a bad one. >> i want to get some time to take some questions from the audience. let me ask you one question and folks i will bring you into conversation with the minister. you're clearly here seeking greater support for ukraine and you've seen some reaction on the sanction's front. what would you say -- what does ukraine need most right now. without betraying the confidence of your meetings here in washington what are you asking for and what are you getting. what's on the list that ukraine needs most urgently in this crisis? well, it's about short term and it's about midterm. it's about support for reforms in ukraine. for reforms not just in
economics here but also for judicial system rule of law. it's about financial support because we have very good imf program and the only condition which hasn't been taken into account is undeclared war. we need also further assistance for our military capabilities to solve the issue now and for the future. we need, of course, real solidarity. real solidarity from here. real solidarity from the euro i european union on the sphere of energy. on the sphere of like european integration. i also can follow the changing atmosphere both here and in the european union from the
perception of partnerships towards real solidarity and engagement. it's probably later than we want it to be but it's already a fact of life. >> just one quick follow-up we've within doing a lot of work up on the hill and in a very active debate about the right kind of military assistance for ukraine because after all you're in a conflict today. are you seeing movement progress on that particular issue. i will turn to him, please. >> yes. not only here but in d.c. last week we were able to waiver a veto for supplies from the european union which has been imposed on the 20th of february. so we have different options and different ways now. but again, it's not about just
transferring up our military capability. it's about -- it's about reform and reshuffle for the whole security sector in ukraine not only for military forces but it's not all aimed at military solution. it's about clear idea how to deed de-escalate the situation interest but we need reshuffled military forces and security sector in order to provide law and order in ukraine and to be able to defend ourselves. >> mr. minister, there's so much expertise in this room on ukraine. i want to turn and bring the audience in. we will have him please. for our audience if he could introduce yourself. your affiliation and ask a brief yes so we could keech tp the conversation moving. >> institute for international economics. minister klimkin you were the
chief negotiator of european association agreement. it would be interesting to hear from you what you think of the most important things that ukraine can benefit in the short term from the association agreement. will it really open up the market so that ukraine can export to europe when russia is closing its market? how will it help you to reform the ukrainian state? will it help you to bring the rule of law to greater extent to ukraine. thank you. >> thank you. let me pick up a second question about the am bobassador here ine front. >> minister with solidarity with everything you do and say. you spoke a lot about sanctions. defense, for me this sounds like minimum what we do in defending the situation. so it's kind of reaction defense. but do you feel the support from the washington on something else that was very important for the
baltic states to make it suck se successful vision po mato make part of the west. >> thank you. >> please mr. minister. >> well, firstly, it was always my point after implementation of the agreement -- after full i implementati implementation, ukraine will look like a different country. a real european country because the association agreement is about framework for reforms in the political sphere, economic sphere, sectorial, integration. the key idea of the agreement is flexibility and the idea to transport in ukrainian legislation the european legislation. we can effectively carry out
trade with asia or latin america but we can't access the eu markets without adapting the whole -- not the whole but at least considerable part. it's the most powerful neighboring market for ukraine with a lot of opportunities there. if you talk to our business of the people are simply enthusiastic about the future opportunities. the only point how quick, how sensibly quick we can use this opportunity. probably in one month, in two months, it will still be difficult to enjoy the full power of the association agreement. it should be our challenge to implement to start implementing
the agreement as soon as possible. it should be also of the challenge for the european union to assist us in the implementation in the way the european union assisted the new member states. so their idea, the instruments, the tool box already is available in the european union is simply not sufficient for the affective implementation. we've been working now on a number of new ideas. the window for this idea is open. we need your support. the idea of influence the eu for your membership perspective, it was always my point. i'm fully confident that because of ongoing changes in the
european union and in the whole euro abooe pi an continent is t no the most pressing issue to fight for formal recognition of membership perspective but it's key now to get european perspective in the sense that ukraine could become a member of the european union if ukraine is ready and fully capable to deliver on relevant eu criteria. so to put -- to get across in europe the ideas that ukraine should start negotiations on eu membership let's say that ducoue of years could be extremely damageable. so i've been fighting now for the european perspective.
for the political recognition for ukraine. for the political right for ukraine to become a member. membership perspectives will definitely come in the course of implementation of the association agreement. it will come sooner rather than later. after yanukovych refused to sign the agreement. i held a speech in berlin about that. and they asked, what is your take? when are you going to be able to sign the agreement? my point was it would be rather sooner than later. my german friends told me, it's about 2016 probably or later. now we have the association agreement signed. my point is you probably don't