tv History Bookshelf Bryan Burrough Days of Rage CSPAN October 5, 2019 4:00pm-5:01pm EDT
brian burrow talks about his book "days of rage, america's radical underground the fbi and the forgotten age of revolutionary violence," where he chronicles domestic terror groups and violence in the 1970's, part of the interviewed by historian perlstein. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp 2019] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> my name is tom paschalis. start i would like to you. a special thank we're broadcasting live on 2's "book tv."
at the end we'll allow questioning. so the e up here audience can here. you can keep it going all year to the tribune's premium book section fiction series and membership program. to download the books app. for more information to our bookstore and finally, we love social media like anyone to take eel free pictures, post messages and inif a hem to twitter, ram or facebook using the #prls15. before we begin please silence phones, turn the flashes off your cameras and with that our moderator, perlstein.
>> i like a short but sweet i'll give a so short one for bryan burrough, for research, in his most recent book, "days of rage: america's radical underground, the fbi, and the forgotten age f revolutionary violence," i joke that we should call him bryan burroughs -- yes, thank you. i'm here all week. wanted tod him how he be introduced, he said he writes writes ty fair and he book. the book for which he's best known other than this most is barbarians at the out in 1990.ame and nabisco, food company. book is a est accomplishment of
and moral inquiry. it's something we thought we lot about because of the last 14 years and that's domestic terrorism but he shows this subject in a new light by taking story back so.969 or and all the way up through kind s, and middle of the 1980 one of the striking facts in the book is that the most fatal and dangerous year for domestic prior to the first world tray center bombing in the united states was 1981, which really makes you scratch your head and say, wow, maybe i book, which you should. i've read it very closely. i have a review cupping out nation magazine next month. the first thing i would like for bryant to talk about is just the sheer scale of political iolence in the united states
during this period. my favorite example to get that was a story you told about the evacuation of a movie theater. so maybe you can address that. >> oh, this was just a small in "the new york may, that i picked up, 1970. small puerto rican independence in a set off a bomb theater in the bronx. lowe's, during the liberation of l.q. jones and that were so prevalent by time, so kind of blase, that to the "times" account the next morning the police said when they tried to clear the after they cleaned up the bomb, no one would leave. they refused to leave. rest of ed to see the the movie. there was no sense of continuing danger. new yorkers, e're it's a bomb already, let's get the back e movie, and
score in the san francisco chronicle. >> that was another one. so many bombs ad during the 1970s that the chronicle began running an box score of how many there were and who was in but the scope of domestic violence, what we would today, istic terrorism don't feel terrorism because by nd large, these bombs were not intended to kill indiscriminately. most are what i call protest bombs. that means bombs set off in, late at night. corporate , headquarters. >> exploding press releases. releases, notpress intended to kill, intended to draw the media and police focus, to communicate, which would be to the bottom of the pay phone or sin to come a radio station this type of thing it is sheer scale of what stunned me. inquiry in the early
it, s counted, what was 2,500 bombings during the -- period duringonth 1971 and 1972, which is just amazing. back, i remember trying to explain why the weather underground's first berkeley, which we disclose and describe in this book for the first time, why it noticed and because it's counted, i going to the major newspapers, 34 other ignificant bombings in the month of february around the country. ost of which injured far more people than the half dozen policemen that weather first attacked. amazing thing is not only how widespread it was but how is, thatly forgotten it there is so little cultural and institutional memory. 1970s, through the 9, i remember patty hearst. so much of this was centered in was centered in the
bay area and thirdly in chicago. media capitals. >> yes. if you grew up like i did in a like my n in texas or mother, in a small town in arkansas this was easy to miss. on one day in new york, in 1975, following uerto rican independence bombing, there were so many bomb phone into areas buildings, that a hundred thousand offers workers that day evacuated, just milling around the suites of manhattan. >> the first time they ever word trade center. >> one of the striking things to think speaks kind of more highly of americans medal days than these days, was kind of a san qua. ou talk about new yorkers saying this is new york, we're don't talk about this particular event in the period and i've researched this period, across a lot of
1975, a tories but in man climb over the white house the with a lead pipe, and secret service doing what they do, when there is a physical to the actual ground, to the president's residence and office they shot him to death a three was like in "the new york times" about it. that was it. one sentence wikipedia story. compare that to this poor mentally ill woman, who rammed why ar, no one knows because she was turned into swiss cheese. she had her infant in the car. was it like national week but a e a hundred or so military and personnel descended on her home with hazmat material make sure she wasn't
cell.of some terrorist >> this type of violence was so deeply woven into the 1970s, if and read it, no one expressed any outrage unless someone was killed or hurt. it was so much a part of life in urban america in the 1970s, it no big deal. my favorite quote in the whole legendary pete hammel. oh, another bombing, who is it this time? can you imagine anybody saying day. that's because coming after the 1960s, coming off watergate with multitude of awful things going on in new york and s, i don't in 1970 think radical violence would have been in the top 10 things anyone was worried about. >> do you think it says anything
about us as a people or a ountry that we're so scared of our shadow? >> we're scared of our shadow now because once we collectively this period we were reintroduced to violence in a very different way. suddenly out of nowhere, to a really didn't remember this stuff, we had 1993 9/11. and suddenly, now, when i say shudder o people, they and they call these people terrorists. >> interesting. >> it is totally, for me to i had to get my head back before 9/11. bombs an 1% of these killed anyone. a few did. puerto rican group detonated a bomb at a wall treet restaurant that killed several people. several of these groups killed peep. does or a dozen but the majority weren't intended to kill. some truly awful
laboratories. you mentioned fl -- liberating puerto rico, the puerto rico can't, aren't they lready liberated but the bombing that they undertook in the tavern in 1975, it's kind of new york tourist attraction, it was where george ashington said farewell to his troops, they did it with a lot incidinary. >> until lunch time. six people? >> four. >> four people. hey were half new york, half chicago. their bombs were mostly 1974 to 1981. fully funny. the story, i'm fairly sure this is the first time i've read it detail. they came out of a high school in chicago. most of them were counselors and teachers, and oscar lopez, lone one who remains in prison today a community activist, who roberto cle called
men. >> the interesting thing about me particular bombing to was, also in counter distinction to violent political terrorists today, these folks within the ainstream of the left or even the liberal mainstream had, you might say, supporters, you might say apologists. to me the most striking thing in the book and why the story is important, not so much for all bombings, was because they had these sort of aiders and was ers, and to me, what striking was the response of the episcopalian church in new york, came to them and aid, this puerto rican -- >> revolutionary group. >> basically -- >> operating out of a basement. puerto rican, mainstream social services group a terroristront for group. episcopalian the leadership that the communique a typewriter in
their base president and the -- who was the response of the archbishop of new york? diocese, episcopal government split into two halves. were just kind of freaked out and concerned and progressives, who attacked the overreaching. in chicago, there were -- >> do you have a -- you have a quote, going after politically active -- >> right. >> hispanics. difficult forvery anybody to imagine then or prove a il now that revolutionary/terrorist bombing group was using the national headquarters of the episcopal of the orking out basement as a front and we can now prove it. admits it in wyer the book. there are just stories like this from the 1970s that have been forgotten. we remember patty hearst. we remember when weather blew up the townhouse. sla was ber when the blown up on national tv in 1973, ut there are so many great
apotro if i and footnote stories like that. these s talk about what folks believe themselves to be accomplishing. let's center the discussion a group that has profound scs, hments to chicago, into the weatherman, into the weather underground. in 1968e it started >> "days of rage: america's radical underground, the fbi, and the forgotten age of revolutionary violence" tells dozen mostf the half prominent underground groups of with 70s, beginning weather through the black liberation army and a couple of others. all of these that groups for all the different they es had in common was were born during the tumult of the 1960s. the underground of the 1970s is a forgotten last chapter of all that happened in the 1960s. obviously, what happened is, i lways say that most of these people were unable to shape the dream of 1968. 1968 was that a
worldwide revolution was sweeping the globe. inevitable that it was coming to the united states. the government would fall, and world order was upon us. come 1969 it didn't happen. started e in and literally cracking heads, as stormtroopers here in chicago and by late 1969 or core of 0 the hardest the militants including leadership of sds, which is white protest group of the era began to talk seriously about going underground. fight to the next level. launchingas literally a kind of war against america. a declared war. as that sounds, they have a long track record of could point to, to show that perhaps it wasn't that crazy. 35 started with, what, people on a hillside in china. to the like one day
next. we've all seen godfather part two. ho chi minh started with 10 guys in vietnam. started with 25 on a leaky boat. they all ended up in control of the countries. eather was the first of the groups and the most imitated, the largest and most influential f the groups that sought to make that happen in america. and there is a great untold failed out how they utterly to do so. right. >> and to connect it to chicago, was the e guys who ayers, who is, bill he ame surfaced in 2008, still goes around giving speeches, about this great nti-war movement, i point out in my book, bill ayers was not an anti-war activist. war activist. he declared war on the united tates and i tell the story in
my review about a great ocialist friend of mine, jimmy weinstein, a publisher of america's first socio-ist these er in decades, in times. now a great left wing magazine, cousin was in the weatherman. and i said, what would you do if cousin, whose name is j.j. an absolute very, very basically advocate of murderous revolutionary violence, what would you do if knocked on your door today? he said i would turn him into destroyed because he the left. > they didn't do the left any favors certainly. >> right. one of the interventions that make to this story is that aftermonstrate that, yes, this terrible accident that happened in a townhouse in lower
anhattan, in march of 1970, several members of the weather nderground blew themselves up accidentally, you point out that weather d the underground to a policy of only undertaking bombings that would only damage property and not people. that, they had to a very different idea in mind. >> that's been the central myth weather underground for the last 45 years is they never intended to hurt a soul because that's the wnhouse, path that they embarked upon for six years. they did fairly conventional protest bombings. --uing >> in bathrooms. >> the f.b.i., after a while, egan to take them less seriously and called them the terrible toilet bombers, because was where most of these bathrooms were placed because in the public building they were the one place where given some privacy you
could close the door and do the wiring and things that you needed to do. important thing and one of the more important points in the book is that what's forgotten by apologists like bill ayers and many weather alumni what they up is the fact there were two phases to the weather underground. in longest one, yes, was, fact, protest bombings. for the first 90 days they detonate bombsto to kill policemen and military officers. in their first action, disclosed in the book in berkeley, seriously injuring one officer and lightly injuring a bunch of others. there was an action in detroit n which bill ayers group attempted to detonate two bombs at a police function, and the in the s the one townhouse, march 6, 1970 where the new york collective led by a man named terry robbins was building a series of very arge bombs that they intended
to detonate at an officer's new jersey, dix, that night, as luck or however you want to look at this would it, terry knew a lot about politics, a lot about poetry but bombs.ugh about building the bone went off in his hands, killed him and two others. the entire townhouse down upon him. convinced the rest of the leadership that they had to murderous violence. other groups later went on and did it including the black but from there on out, bernadine and jeff leaders, w principal along with bill ayers, chartered letter y called one write to a berkeley paper, called it responsible terrorism. was, what i call protest bombing. bombs not intended to kill. now, bill ayers told terry gross that they never tried to kill any cops. and id you get the story
how confident are you that they policehind this berkeley bombing? >> my source, the young man that placed it.omb and there is every reason in the world that bill ayers doesn't want the world to know this but his notoriety nt and his fame, there is a large of the radical left out there to whom bill ayers is not very popular. came forward in the book because they, i think, frankly felt like why is bill only underground figure that most of america has ever heard of. man, for instance, who built 198% of the weather underground bombs, who went on a long career teaching in the public schools in new york comes out for the first time in our and tellss identified his story. it el certain that part of is ron realizing he had a part n this history too, and they also, many of them including the one who talks about building and in berkeley that
night, feels like bill is not telling the true story. story is uglier than they want people to remember. away with they get it? how about the f.b.i.? >> i love the f.b.i. today. the loyalty and professionalism. to know a lot of people who work there but the hour.was not their finest hey had very little history in infiltrating, successfully infiltrating radical groups. of these hilarious memos that you can get back in how these people live like rep pro baits. their hair is dirty and they have drugs. in the movement would talk to the f.b.i. so very even though hoover, in something many people on the want to believe or remember, he had forbade illegal and aries in 1966 and by
large, i think that was, that away from, the weather 47 in especially squad new york brought back black bag obs, and illegal mail opening and every conceivable thing you after in spades to going weather and the long story short, one of the great ironies era, in the end, exactly one weatherman of the primary cyber, opposed to exactly one weatherman, one of the two young women who crawled of the rubble of the townhouse that morning, was ever convicted of anything. the top three officials of convicted, were indicted for these, for these break-in. one had the charges dropped. two others were convicted and ronald reagan pardoned them. >> so, i mean, the interesting f.b.i., not only did they cheat but they lost. of thenot only that, one
most frustrating things about this is i thought i would go di on a book 10 be able to would tell this with documentary evidence. it turns out on weather at least, most of these groups, you get is just junk because i talked to half a dozen fbi agents in the late 1970s who said after these investigations they were s started, taking all the new york files where most of the work was done ome and burning them in the fireplaces. there is just nothing there. to result, i kind of had take off my story hat and put on my old middle age newspaper hat and start just tracking it down, and, you know, burrough.me is brian you don't know me. i don't happen to be radical but look, anyway, would you tell me about that building you bombed 1972. >> brian burroughs. so when i reviewed the book i cinematic.o
it's like you've seen the movies that stuff was ripped from the headlines. we're talking about a member of cell goes olutionary into an after hours joint where bad things that are bad for the people are going on. know, and make everyone strip down naked, steal all know. money, you the cops come. the cops says, what are all people doing naked? guy ome guys like, some ripped us off but they are gone now and then another guy says, there.s right over >> on his clothes. >> a lot of these stories, one of the things i learned is if going to be a member of a violent revolutionary army and over by the cop the first thing you want to do is -- windows.down the >> roll down the windows. >> that's what the black to members.aught >> when the cops came some hide heir heads, which they start
shooting at the cop. >> and the glass would be flying and you don't want anyone to be right? >> and these guys all had medium thisrge afros and there is one story about this particularly murderous guy, last quote on that after that shoot-out was our women were picking glass out hair all night. >> how many rounds of ammunition ere involved in that final showdown, do you think? >> i don't know, but it was cut to pieces. the unofficial end of the black liberation army. was lack liberation army not prone to peaceful protest bombings. of the e a spin-off panthers, black panthers. exactly, as weather map was a of sds. from the t nominally their world s, emissary, cleaver, who believed himself to be running sort of government in exile of black
america from a room in algeria, dr. evil, he ike had a map with lights having all the revolutionary cells including the one based in china, whose chairman was guy named mao. >> i know. up. can't make this stuff >> i know. >> he thought the bla was going that this guerrilla army would lead, of course, all of that's groups believed once they violent about g -- >> the people will rise up. oppressed y black will rise up and they are always so stunned when it never happens. funny, when the head of the sudanese revolutionary army, i think the f.b.i. might another us, let's find black person, knock on their door, and see if they will harbor us. was closing .b.i. in the leader of the sla decided to a hey needed to move new place, they didn't know a new place so they started going their building
commander of the sudanese liberation army, can we amazingly no one aid yes, but no one turned him in. >> it was a strange time and the man was, as we know in chicago hampton, cutting down black leaders in cold blood. so kind of made sense. a time when government, because of the 1960s, because of the corruption of the nixon administration, and war in watergate, you know, the reputation of the f.b.i. and national government was, i haven't lived long enough to say, at an all time low, but i don't know how many times it was lower. > as i put it in my piece, if you're in the south bronx, and he heroin trade is run by the police, you know, joining a group like the black liberation army seems like a better change than voting for ubert humphrey, you know. >> yeah. mostly, the bla
asn't the purist outlet for black rage. which had been rising since the malcolm, through finally after 10 years, of blacks calling for power and black revolutionary and black revolution, and off the pig, to do it.mebody tried to nd large they got cut pieces. but they attacked a number of well.e as >> kind of a delicious movement where one of the dla soldiers understand, you know, we're at war and the cop, he's cool. at war i if we were would have shot you already. >> would you not be handcuffed n the back of this patrol car, young man. >> anyway, so let me ask you one more question before we open it up. line up to the c-span microphone. getting the story. he reason i said this is so
cinematic, if i were writing the creen play of "days of rage," it would be about some guy who lives in texas and new jersey getting this story. downyou know, and tracking all of these great people, but i get the sense it was pretty difficult and frustrating and almost at the end of your rope at a certain point. >> a couple of times. most difficult thing i have ever done and i'm not sure i would do it again. foras almost six years, and most of the first 18 months it was getting a lot of doors lammed in my face metaphorically. people aren't going to tell you about that building they bombed in 1972. when i realized, when i started reaching out to some of the lawyers, some of the from back in eys, the day, and found that the bar f radical attorneys was surprisingly small, maybe a dozen, 15 that mattered and i argument, king the look, whatever -- my politics don't matter. i have a track record of telling accurately.
and the fact is, look behind me. reportersa half dozen lining up outside this door. you're 75 years old. don't tell me these stories they are never going to be told. was that movement in you realized you might have a ook that was on your own terms successful, in your hands? started rst too maime i hearing some of the stories what they used to tell us in story, vomit your corn flake stories. told rst time the bla guy me about murring a cop. the first time ron told me about bombs. the weatherman the first time -- interviewed in rison told me about breaking johann out of prison, in 1979 and smuggling her to cuba. got a couple of those stories i realized my great frustration here was i thought uneven.k was i knew i had some amazing stuff. but it's not amazing everywhere.
you know, there are a couple of groups that i never talked to any of their people. fln, i had to tell that story through the eyes of the pursued them.o but once i got a couple of those arly stories, i realized, wow, this is amazing stuff. of had the bug. >> -- [inaudible] at point hoot a cop blank range. >> she tried to do it many times. the one time we know for sure, convicted of down the turnpike. relevant because she's the most prominent fugitive still in cuba. >> what would you tell the kids, e in the black student union at berkeley, who are naming a building after her? look, i did my best to play this right down the middle. judgments.e especially political judgments. i have had people on the right say i'm glamour rising these people. had a lot of people on my
left say you're not explaining did it.bout why they but it's difficult to stay down studentse when you get today who want to name university buildings, and this is not the first time it happened. it happened at, i think it they in the bronx, where want to name buildings after the maker.b i understand that these people are potent symbols, but they and they ill people tried to kill police officers and families. nd i just have a hard time, look, if you want to name your community center with private you want to nybody fine, but kind of sticks in my crawl when people want to do public money. >> i can almost understand has e morales because he the most strong will of any human being i've heard of. fingers. up his >> he blew off nine of his fingers and half his face. > escapes the cops, escapes -- what's the story.
he has one finger and what does he do with this one finger? pipe bomb goes off in his hand. july 1978. building a bomb in elmhurst, queens. blows off nine of his fingers half his face. and yet somehow he manages with stubs of his hands to flush most of the documents from his toilet.t down the we know that because apparently him and closed behind there are these bloody stub marks. by the time the cops came he was out, his a head was the size of a balloon. somehow he survived. put intaken to bellevue, a hospital ward and after several trips from a very helpful defense attorney, it he suddenly came into some wire of andpings, big wire clippers somehow with no hand, with one remaining finger, his attorney city of new the
york saying that acting for possession of the fingers back to sew them on and they said we're getting to it, we just haven't gotten to it. somehow willie morales managed ith help to tie a rope ladder outside his window, clipped his way outside the window, put down rope ladder and it appears that he got about 10 feet from he felld floor and then because there was a massive -- on the air conditioner that he first floor and down there were an estimated five to fla, an s of the african-american group called whisked him away first to east orange, new jersey, to milwaukee and mexico and cuba. >> we need that kind of schools and in our college kids today. that's why i think we should name a building after willie morales. >> he's still in cuba. every now and then he'll give an on some obscure
internet channel. >> he's kind of been in the news on the question of what's going to fugitives in cuba with the new normalization of relations. don't want to have too much dead air while we wait for the uys to approach microphone. i bet you guys have some interesting questions. sir? finally able to pry loose some of these stories of the bombings that took place 40 years ago, how were you able to get confirmation on how difficult was that? >> by and large, most -- one of problems i had was -- falla ability of memory. they would at the time them incorrectly. famous bombing, first significant weather bombing was in juneypd headquarters 1970. and you know, i had the guy who built the bomb. a couple of other people who had been there. the facts didn't match all of every ounts because
newspaper had, you know, all the times and everything. and you just, you do what have done for decades. you just say, look, you thought 5:00, the papers say it was at 6:30. well, it probably was, i don't ago.mber, it was 40 years what you end up doing in most ccounts is that the kind of dates and times and facts, you was to go with what generally accepted by the press and then the impressionistic, he quotes, memories, the emotions, and specific memories, hat's where i become more comfortable bringing in human remembered accounts. don't humans just remember the basic facts 40 years later. they just don't. > you don't have a lot of footnotes for people to follow up. >> i'm going to ask you, i'm a historian. i should have , done more. >> what i don't do, look -- >> you have the website. i know, i know, i know, you're so good at it and i'm not. footnote i do is i
things where i've taken a pecific fact and always a quotation from another source. by and large, a lot of my stuff interviews ersonal and unlike a lot of authors i don't footnote, this is from an -- on ew done with mr. february 18, 2011. i know i should. say, i, i just basically and he told guy, me this. instances ave any where any of the bombers ctually showed remorse or apology or did they take their original stance? justified, and a second question is, do you ave -- do you discuss in your book instances on the university campuses as well? wisconsin? >> yeah. question first. yeah, i'm always surprised when get questions not meaning to
comment on whatever politics you may have, sir, but often when i right, stions from the they are always so stunned when sayle in the book or when i people express remorse. because many of them do. not all. would say roughly speaking, i would say 2/3 of the people that to did not express remorse. they expressed sadness that they lost. they expressed sadness that people don't understand the in their mind or the severity of the circumstances this.required them to do about a third of the people, i would say, especially those who ave kind of gone into white collar jobs, many of the weathermen have gone on to be doctors, lawyers, and university professors. i did find a number of them. >> mark speaks beautifully -- the consequences. >> mark rudd, one of the early marginalized, went on to a career teaching at a community college in new mexico. on it.od
i would say probably 30% to 40% expressed some type of remorse. question, i d don't, because the main narrative of my book starts in 1969 and i'm primarily concerned with people who took explosives and radical from the campus out into mainstream america. campus ily deal with violence in a couple of background chapters early on. showing, in essence, that the bombing and the domestic 1970s had its e roots in campus violence, s.pecially in the late 1960 1968 and 1969 into 1970s. of these were molotov cocktails with the one exception that killed -- i believe it was, that was larger than any other bomb set off by any of these other groups that i'm writing about.
and the significance of that bomb was not only the size, but and it was off not -- when i say it was one off, just a group of students and one timee time only and disappeared. >> there is a masterful book that. >> rad. >> but the decision of that is that weather was at a turning point.at that they had been underground eight months. they were trying to get on to and the madison changed the ight national conversation from what in vietnam to these kids. revolutionary underground was widely disavowed in the days and weeks that followed. i don't write a lot about campus but that would be the most significant bit at least in terms of what happened in the s.70 >> thank you ever so much for -- read.s, an excellent my question is, you've made it clear how difficult this book on. to gather information
so what would you say was the your s or the reason for decision to tackle it in the first place? this otivate you on subject? you.k >> thank you. i hop around. i have a short attention span, i guess. new book and a new subject every five or six years. i, by and large, i know how this must sound but issues and the primary t drivers in determining what gets me to tackle a book. looking for a good story. three books ago i wrote a book enemies," which was the story of the birth of chasing aroundi. six des parity criminal groups during the 1930s. to go back and do something that had that feel of kind of cops and robbery. a situation be
where i thought i could break significant new ground. inerwise, i have no interest riting a book that's regurnlg d -- regurgitating other people's stuff. had a guy that came back and suggested the fdln. i looked at it and thought, wow, written about them and certainly they are probably never going to talk to me, and while candidly commercial considerations rarely factor into my decisions it was that if i apparent wrote a book about some group en puerto rican from the 1970s with no get ration, i was going to about 17 readers. >> they would be outstanding leader. leaders.ated >> i looked at weather, i looked t others and none i thought rose to the significant, the importance that i wanted in a book and that's when it hit me, no, you're missing it. it's all of them. it's an era. underground era.
and yes, maybe these people were in the hundreds. but the scale and the breadth of perpetuated, iey nott know how you call this significant. >> the accounts of the weathermen that you've been able o interview are in flat contradiction to what chicagoans, brandi, dorian and ayers have said. have they spoken publicly or to or to people about these differences? > they are in flat contradiction but i should point ut that what bill ayers and others say is accurate about 80% of the weather underground's life. not accurate about the first 90 days. >> about themselves. i tried to talk with them repeatedly and through their ies and to
attorneys for six years and i went back and forth, via email ayers many, many times. look, this guy is a talented writer. has a career, communicating in his own voice and i don't think candidly, kindest way for to look at it was he didn't see the value in allowing someone else to tell the story than qualifiedre to tell himself. > and what's howard doing, you referred to him as a ph.d. candidate. admittedchnically been to candidacy? >> good question. i don't remember. he was at the university of chicago. working in the ph.d. program at the time. >> he was a graduate student. i doubt that he was yet formally admitted to candidacy. a small point. is he doing? >> he's retired. >> retired from what? being a weatherman? went on to a long career doing social work and teaching schools.rth carolina >> thank you. an asterisk, be
like, this gentleman, who i can't name, you know, has gone to a distinguished career, whatever, an accountant, maker, you know, it's pretty remarkable. drama. >> there were a number of the weathermen that, you know, that, of then went on to be a tenured professor at duke. specialty was narcotic addiction, and no one knew -- no knew he de his family had been in weather until his eulogy which was delivered by of my sources, one of the most prominent sources in he book, that's not named, i gave him a pseudonym, was one of man and 's right-hand after seven years underground, toturned himself in, he went an ivy league law school and working o 25 years to at a new york law firm. >> and no one outside his family peers know what
he did. wow. >> so what's next? >> we've got another question. with the tion is, increasing animosity we see in the political realm today, do that we may be in the years, seeing 20 another -- days of rage? >> maybe i can speak to that. we have an enormous problem of right wing terrorism in america. it spoken 't hear of of as terrorism. in the first few years of the obama administration there, were people going after cops, and clinic bombings, and rest.he it's part of our political culture that really is not being reckoned with right now. do you have any thoughts? >> yeah, i just saw this piece, to be at guy that used the "times," craig, i forget his got a new book out, trying to argue exactly
that, that income equality and has reached nment such a point that we're seeing what may be e for revolutionary movements, left, right, or otherwise, in the near future. i would have thought your answer would not be about right wing have been ut would bout the progression in african-american and activists rhetoric, because the issues, at first, were exactly the issues that spawned, that furthered the panthers and spawned the -- in ferguson yet, from onward until baltimore the activists were uniformly not but preached t nonviolence. and it wasn't until baltimore eds we started to see on and interviews with young of vists saying, i'm tired being in these protest protests. ou start to hear less dr. king
and more malcolm in their voices. i don't know if this goes that re but you look at initially, when i saw those uotes from young activists saying, these peaceful marches anywhere.ting us take things to the next level. i didn't roll my eyes but i was like, read your history. not going anywhere good. >> well, i think, you know, like now compared to 1968, it's just miles compared to three of madison street burned to the ground. same.ale is just not the >> i get on radio shows and people say baltimore had such we ence, how can you say don't have violence like that today. like, wait. baltimore was good in 1966. 196. there is no comparison. don't let the amplification, the amplification of social media and cable lead you o believe that this is more
significant than it is. >> and the rioting in the 1960s hiring to things like black cops, and not just cops like they had in harlem and where the black cops would compete to see who could, up the black suspects, or prove that they rest of the h the thin blue line. is very, le ecology very different. he fact that there was no african-american professional class to speak of, like the one know, the los ou angeles times basically had to you know, practically -- they didn't have reporters, you know. now.ings are serious i wouldn't want to downplay the anger. true that american police departments have gotten all the er at saying
ight things that are necessary to temper down feelings. even if their officers aren't oing all the right things, by and large you don't get hard faced police chiefs up there kids g about these crazy in the streets. >> the ferguson, city after acts, you had professional administrators that rodney king and diallo, and they at least know ow to say the right things and that's led to some of the lessons -- >> compared to chief parker in 1965, in the water riots. he recruited his cops from mississippi and then after the riots, he said, well, it's like in the zoo, one monkey throws a throw a rock.all those were the kind of people running the police departments 1965. >> clarence. >> thanks for calling on me. couple of clarifications from an old boomer. los angeles times, it was a
guy in the classified ad department actually. a dime and told, would you please go to the watts and take some notes telephone, on -- pay i don't know if you guys can remember that or not. other thing is, the guy you after --ng k was named sing q call himself sing q not guess, aken french, i but anyway, that's just -- chicago.street in >> guilty. guilty. please get it right. anyway. corrected honor to be by you, clarence. > thank you, it's so seldom we old guys get any respect from you young people. [laughter] > i appreciate both you and your books. i just marvel -- you. >> get to get the last word. did such a that you great job of recounting the period. i don't find so much
of, is the flavor of the period. fred to speak up for hampton and other black panther leaders who denounced the eather underground, who denounced bill ayers, who are oth friends of mine, but denounced them as being -- >> cutistic. it, thank, and that to getre -- i would love together over your favorite beverage sometime and remember here, liseum convention but anyhow, it sounds like these of some vast radical left wing conspiracy but divisions.a lot of was a real from inniinge on a fringe group. of what et a sense drives people, whether right or left what drives them to that where they eme,
quoted, i think jfk those who make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable. that's what took people over the edge to making bombs, et cetera, and most other members of my go that far, n't and, in fact, as you also allude serious iolence got most backed off and said, none of that. all.ost, almost >> we'll take your answer off the air, because we've been cut c-span. >> over your favorite beverage, clarence. it.you got >> ladies and gentlemen, brian burrough. [applause] -- nce again, i would be like to thank all of you. they will be signing books in the lobby right now.
sxwr. > history bookshelf features the best known american history writers in the past decade talking about their books. our weekly serious every saturday at 4:00 p.m. eastern here on american history on c-span 3. >> each week american history real america brings you archival films that provide today's public affairs issues. 1933, after weeks of discussion, there was a on the outskirts of
jetta, it was there that the government officials representing his majesty signed confession covering roughly 320,000 square miles. this was the starting point of a venture can business abroad. but ahead there was a long, long to travel. a huge investment. effort.f and no end of patience and perseverance. of all, a job hat would require men, hardy men, determined men, men who were willing to leave families halfwaynds, and journey around the world on a quest that might end in failure. men who could face hardship and it.tony and still take men like paul strong. paul strong had never heard of saudi arabia when he was asked back in 1938 if he would like to there.
that answer was easy for him. like to go. for his money, give him peace for the of theop small american town where he live since he had finished just a few years before. he company sought out other men. across the breadth and depth of farms, in small towns, in great cities, and each problems to wn weigh. own decision to make, o make a life career in oil in arraign yeah. they decided and gradually began to arrive. carpenters, machinists, riggers, technicians, drillers, the tives, eager to extend
welcoming hand to the new arrivals. there?o is that over why, sure enough, paul strong. had forgotten back in the states that he had that traditional american haracteristic, a hunger for adventure and challenge. he and the others had come to earn of the middle east, and tough.und the going was few outsiders ever before had been beyond jetta. the arabs were suspicious of these strange newcomers. were frankly ready to d were quite feelings.r >> even the extended hand of was accepted grudgingly in the early days. all of this it was hot. 120 in the shade on many a day summer.
sometimes soaring to 140 in the sun. to make high humidity it even worse. dysentery flies and and the housing was makeshift. there was little to do except ork and life seemed rugged indeed. ere in such a setting, they prepared to search for oil. >> watch the entire film, desert venture, sunday at 4:00 p.m. eastern on reel america when we through the 20th century with archival films to provide context on public affairs. the house will be in order. beenr 40 years c-span has providing america unfiltered coverage of congress. the white house, the supreme court and public policy events from washington, d.c. at around the country. created by cable in 1979, c-span
is brought to you by your local cable or satellite provider. c-span, your unfiltered view of government. >> next on "lectures in history." then teaches a class on 1920's -- next on lectures in history, karen markoe of state university of new york maritime college teaches a class on the 1920's. she talks about politics, prohibition, and organized crime as well as popular music and sports of the era. dr. markoe: ok, well, good morning, everybody. today we are going to discuss the jazz age, and at least i am going to discuss it and you're part of the discussion will be at the end. please write down any thoughts you have, questions, responses, that would be good. the jazz age is the period from 1919 to 1929, reminds me of the opening lines of "a tale of two cities" by charles dickens.