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tv   Tonight From Washington  CSPAN  November 5, 2009 8:00pm-11:00pm EST

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breaking news tonight, live. the florida panhandle. a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom with her parents, vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story becoming more distorted by the minute. bombshell, tonight in the last hours, cops blast into the home of the baby-sitter. and to their shock, discover a tiny baby shannon. just 11 pounds, trapped, hidden and locked inside a wooden
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chest. no bottle. no pillow. no stuffed toy. but miracle tonight is 7-month-old baby shannon, alive! behind bars, the baby-sitter whose own little stepson went missing without a trace 22 years ago. he's never been found. oh, yeah. and in the cell next to baby-sitter, mommy. that's right, mommy, who wanted to get rid of her own infant gir, little baby shannon. >> we are the proud papas of a little girl. this is shannon lee dedrick. >> relatives of baby shannon learned that not only had she been found but that she's alive. >> we do not usually get to the
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happy endings that had here today. >> reporter: shannon was found in a box under the bed of susan baker, her step-aunt. >> the only thing this in that box was a blanket and a box of baking soda to cover the odor because she had fouled her diaper, soiled it. >> if you want to see a bunch of grown men cry, tonight we rushed her to the hospital and we all call it home for a while. to let them know we found this baby safe. >> at an emotional news conference today the washington county sheriff talked about finding little shannon alive. >> this box that had a lid on it and also had a had clasp on it. she was in the box -- excuse me. she was in the box for almost 12 hours. in a closed box.
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>> and breaking news tonight, live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted sex offender accused of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home, even stuffed in the crawl spaces. breaking tonight, the body count rises as the excavation goes on, in addition to the 11 dead women found, so far, in the three-story home of former marine anthony sowell. police now suspect another 14 missing women may have died at his hands. in the last hours, real-life "csi," firefighter, homicide detectives, cadaver dogs -- all back at sowell's home, as they begin to literally tear down the
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walls. in the search for dead women. and also breaking tonight, two more lady victims identified. 31-year-old tashaanon colver and fortson, mother of three. positively identified. tonight, relatives of two lady victims with us live. their mother, their daughter, bodies, hidden in this house of horrors for the last year. and in another bizarre twist, we confirm just weeks after sowell's release from the pen, he lifts hoimz a sex website seeking, quote, a submissive. is this one the ways the former marine trolled for victims? tonight, unsuspected neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them.
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>> the body count increases in the house of horrors in cleveland. >> 11 victims. there were six inside the house and five recovered from the yard. >> they describe it, after the fact, as a smell of death. of rotting flesh of dead bodies. >> we received a phone call from a resident that said, councilman, there's a foul odor that's coming from across the street. and it smells like a dead person. not dead meat, not dead animal, dead person. >> you could smell the stench a block away. >> literally going to rip this home apart. they're going to tear down the walls. they're going on check every inch. they will make sure that nothing else is inside of this house. that there's no more evidence and for sure there are no more bodies. >> the bodies buried in the ground, decomposed eight times slower than a body left in air. so we had two in the third floor out in the air, we had two bodies under dirt, and we had five buried in the yard. so they're all decomposing at
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different rates. >> go back to the house and dig a little deeper because of the skull and we need to find where the rest of the bodies are at. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. bombshell tonight, live, the florida panhandle. a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom with her parents, vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story becoming more distorted by the minute. bombshell, tonight, in the last hours, cops blasted to the home of the baby-sitter. and to their shock, discover a tiny baby shannon. just 11 pounds, trapped, hidden and locked inside a wooden chest. no bottle, no pillow, no stuffed toy. but miracle tonight is, there is a god. 7-month-old baby shannon alive.
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>> shannon dedrick was found in a 2x3 foot cedar chest underneath a bed. understand, under the bed, the box shoved in the back and a lot of material in front of it. to see if anyone was looking. >> she's missing for five days and so tiny an we expected the worst. >> they learned that thannon was alive as she was brought into the room by the sheriff and gave the baby an emotional welcome back. >> cops say they found baby shannon dedrick lying in a 2x3 foot cedar box. shoved under a bed. stashed there for over 12 hours. the baby-sitter/aunt is charged in this. she has a violent criminal past. and now we're hearing and just hours ago cops charged files against baby shannon's mom, the one who reported her missing halloween day. >> just hours ago investigators weren't even sure if baby shannon was still alive. now she's found alive and well,
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reunited with her family. >> i was immediately taken to the northwest florida community hospital here in chipley where she was examined by the local doctor. shannon is currently located at the hospital and we understand that she's in good condition. >> straight out to will glover, joining us from the pan ama cit, "news harold." will, what happened this is and what cops to storm the home of the baby-sitter? >> caller: well, apparently, nancy, this morning a story about an e-mail that ms. bake her sent to governor charlie crist detailing allegations of abuse. had piqued the interest of law enforcement. decided to prod them along. to go out to ms. baker's house out in rural washington county. >> right. >> caller: about 8:30 last night, they went in and received consent to search the house.
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at the back of the bed and pushed back behind things and no oning see them was a 2x3 cedar chest inside when they opened the latch they found alive and well baby shannon. >> you know it's a miracle. and it's my understanding, to you clark goldband, the baby is not just a cardboard box under a bed. this child was in a wooden chest. take a look at this. locked down. it's like a cedar chest. and nothing to eat. nothing -- of course she can't eat. only seven months. no bottle, no toy, nothing. in fact, they had put baking soda in the box because the baby would poop and the baby had been in this box for many, many hours locked inside a box, clark goldbhand? >> ten to 12 hours, nancy, what law enforcement are saying. and you are right, that is a
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thick two-foot by three-foot chest and you have to wonder exactly how much air that child had been getting, although law enforcement did say in a press conference the child did receive some form of oxygen. >> joining me right now is a very special guest, candice boyer. this is baby shannon's grandmother. ms. boyer, thank you for being with us. >> caller: thank you. >> where is the baby tonight? >> caller: well, she is safely in the arms of a wonderful couple in a medical house. she is in the custody of the state of florida. and she's just in wonderful health. she has a clean bill of health. and she's beautiful. i spent three hours with her today. >> and i understand you have quite a drive to get to your little grandchild. how far did you go to get to her today? >> caller: yes. today, well, it took bus 14 hours to get here.
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875 miles. >> 700 miles. grandmother -- >> caller: 800. >> 800 miles. nearly 900 miles. she's driven to get to this baby. ms. boyer, whose mother you, the mother or the daddy's? >> caller: chrystina mercer is my daughter. >> she is behind bars tonight. why in the world would she want to give the baby to the baby-sitter? >> caller: well, as confused as tina is, i -- i have to tell you, she is emphatically stated that she did not and would not ever harm her child. and in my wholeheart believe that she was manipulated into this situation. >> what about it, marc klaas? what do you think, mommy manipulated? >> well, i -- it's against every maternal extinct i've ever heard of to give up your child and then report it missing. this is one the craziest stories
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i've ever heard in my life. >> well, all i know is, this, marc klaas, this baby is alive. but it has been locked for 12 hours in a wooden chest. no bottle. no toy. nothing. police find the baby. today washington county sheriffs, congratulations! we are taking your calls live. with us, baby shannon's maternal grandmother. mom momy behind barps with the baby-sitter who has a record of her own. >> she was in the box for almost 12 hours. in a closed box. shannon was immediately taken to the northwest florida community hospital here in chipley where she was examined by the local doctor. shannon is currently located at the hospital and we understand that she's in good condition.
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the story of baby shannon, the 7-month-old baby girl, missing in the florida panhandle five days is now safe and in protective custody. shannon dedrick was found in a cedar box under a bed in her baby-sitter's home in chipley, florida. >> at approximately 9:55 p.m., shannon dedrick was found in a 2x3 foot cedar chest underneath a bed. this box had a lid on it and
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also had a clasp on it. >> authorities are planning to charge the baby-sitter, her husband and the baby's own mother in the disappearance of that little girl. >> says shannon was found in a box under the bed of susan baker, her step-aunt. they believe she had been in that box since around 8:00 wednesday morning. >> susan baker, the baby-sitter, also sending an e-mail to the governor of florida charlie christ, pleading with him just a few weeks ago to save the child. >> the family's joyous right now. >> my life will be a lot better now now that i know that she's safe. >> we rushed her to the hospital and we all called it home for a while to let them know that we found this baby safe. >> i've got in my hand here the letter that this so-called baby-sitter sent to the governor complaining about these parents. this has clearly been in the works for some time. but how do you convince the birth mother to give up her
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7-month-old baby girl? take a look at this e-mail to the governor. "the baby's being abused. i have seen the dad pick her up and shake her because she cries. others in home have shaken the baby. she accuses the parents smoking heavily and doing dope, dealing their food stamps for drugs, all around the baby." joining me right now, special guest, dr. robert cartwright, out of atlanta. pediatrician. dr. cartwright, if a little baby, this -- i mean they told me when i brought the twins home, not to even have somebody that smoked around them because it could induce s.i.d.s., sudden infant death syndrome. and here they are smoking pot, according to this source, and heavily smoking cigarettes around the baby, that we know of, much less shaking the baby? >> absolutely. this is something that really is outrageous and we really encourage parents norspoke
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around their children. certainly that applies to certain regular cigarettes but smoking marijuana is even that much worgs. are there certainly plenty more chemicals and toxins that are in marijuana smoke as compared to cigarette smoke. neither is good. we certainly than cigarette smoke is a risk factor for sudden infant death syndrome as you have mentioned. it's arific for other infections. nasal issues. asthma, other lung diseases. >> and you know, dr. cartwright, the list goes on and i will not even mention the fact that the baby is locked inside this cedar chest. you know back out to you, willglover with the panama city news harold. a lot of e-mails and phoners are calling in that this looks more like a coffin. what about that, will glover? >> caller: i would agree. it's very small. it's more like a -- almost like a larger jewelry box, if you ask me. and she tucked it back there and apparently would put the baby there every time the cops would inquire about anything. >> this is just sick.
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we are talking your calls. out to diane in florida. hi, diane. >> caller: hi, nancy. i love your show and your twins are beautiful. >> thank you. >> caller: my question is, exactly how will they have shannon breathing in that locked box? >> good question. what about it, will glover? how was the baby breathing? >> caller: there apparently were holes that were poked into the wooden box that would allow the baby to breathe and of course now the baby was also found under a bed, back against the wall, with stuff covering the surroundingu know surrounding this chest. >> this is a miracle. >> this is a miracle. look at this baby. rosy, keep it on a full screen. look at the baby. she's absolutely gorgeous. when i think of what could have happened to this child -- andut to you, pat brown. it sounds like they poked holes in the box like it's a fifth grader's science experiment with a bug or a rat and you poke
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holes so it can breathe. >> well, exactly. this baby-sitter wasn't concerned about the baby. this is an object to her. whether it lives or dice, doesn't matter as long as she gets to play her game, get attention and do what she wants. >> bethany marshall, remember the baby-sitter's little 6-year-old stepson's body has never been found. >> i think this baby-sitter had a preoccupation with getting the baby away from the mother in order to have the mother's attention all to herself. i've treated women like this in my practice. and they're envious of babies. they resent them and they want to get rid of them.
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we are the proud papas of a little girl. this is shannon lee dedrick. we found her safe. we do not usually get to that happy ending that we have had happen here today. if you want to have seen a bunch of grown men cry, tonight when we rushed her to the hospital and we was all call it home for a while, to let them know we'd found this baby safe. >> i did the same thing. i came running out of the room. i said baby, baby shannon is alive. i couldn't believe it. and you know what, he's right, marc klaas. this is the exception to the rule. this never happens. >> well, it happens occasionally. let me tell you, nancy, that the klaaskids search team was integral in recovering this little girl.
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>> really? >> prior to going into the house, our dog handlers brad and tammy dennis were systematically searching the perimeter to see if there was a body there. and it was only after that area was cleared that the law enforcement decided to -- >> go in. >> go into the house and umt mately find the baby. we're very proud to have been proud of. >> and i'm proud of you, marc klaas along with the washington county sheriff's office. there is a miracle. with us tonight special guest kandis boyer, this is shannon's maternal grandmother. ms. boyer, what is your daughter telling you? >> caller: actually, my daughter's not telling anybody anything. she's denying this. she said she let her care for the child and that was it. >> well, then why did she had care for the child then why did she tell police she didn't know where the baby it was she had given the baby over just to be
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cared for? >> caller: i just really can't answer that. she said so many different things. she seems to be very confused. and her frame of mind is very confused. that's what i have gathered have talking to her myself since i have been here.
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we're going to take you straight back to baby shannon's discovery. but first out to michael board. woi news radio with breaking news. what can you tell me about the latest in the killeen, texas shooting, michael? >> caller: well, we now know that major malik hasan who shot and killed 11 people on ft. hood near texas this afternoon, before he was killed, was actually going to be deployed later this month. he was set to be deployed out to iraq and this was going to be his first deployment. it talks a lot about his mindset. although we don't know exactly
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what triggered this tragic shooting at ft. hood. we do know, sort of, what was going on in his mind when he pulled two handguns and started firing wildly into this crowd which is here at this readiness facility here at ft. hood. >> i was told they were m-16s, is that true? >> caller: no it's handguns. the m-16s is what the infantrymen would use since he's a major, he's a navy officer, they were two handguns. >> so they were not m-16s. >> michael, how many dead? >> caller: total of 12 dead including major hasan. that death toll is probably going to rise later this evening. there were two of the people who were wounded who are in very critical condition. one woman who was apparently shot in the face. >> oh. >> caller: reports that she may have already passed. we're trying to confirm that, but nancy, expect the death toll to rise tonight. >> and let me ask you this, did hasan have a family he was leaving behind, if he were to defly iraq? >> caller: that's not clear yet. i know he's from virginia.
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he comes from -- apparently he comes from a family that's an islamic family. they did not approve of him joining the army. i do not believe he had a family that he's left behind. but you know that's all going to come out as the investigation continues into this. >> with us michael board, waoi newsradio. and michael board, very quickly, at first the media was told that there were three shooters, but it's my understanding there's only one, hasan. >> caller: that's what it looks like. there is still one person who is being questioned, but several people that were questioned earlier today have already been released. it looks like major hasan was the only shooter. >> okay, everybody, we're taking your calls live. i want to go back to baby shannon's discovery. we'll bring you the latest regarding the mass shooting at ft. hood, that's killeen, texas, as it comes in. as you know, 31 shot, 12 known dead. many of them in critical condition. the hospital tonight. i want to go back right now to the maternal grandmother of baby
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shannon. she's with us tonight. kandis boyer, but first unleash the lawyers. mickey sherman, veteran criminal defense attorney, author of "how you can defend those people?" and renowned attorney out of new york, richard herman. let's see, sherman and herman up on the big screen. there they are. all right, herman, i don't know what you're -- thanks. i don't know what you're smiling about, but i would like to know how you can weave the story of mommy was manipulated. she didn't know what was happening. >> well, first, let me thank marc klaas for doing an incredible job discovering, helping in the discovery, five days after the report of missing. that's phenomenal. thank god there's a healthy baby here. this is -- >> herman, please answer the question. >> this is an aunt who has this baby in many occasion business in the past. the baby's slept there. >> put herman on the screen. not a locked wooden chest. >> nothing more than a family member taking a child for a
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period of time. they got it wrong. bakeeer. >> really. >> baker is a hero. >> yeah. >> let me ask you this, sherman, where does the 911 call from mommy fit in. >> i'm not so sure she's a hero. these are wacky people, simple as that. >> that's your defense. you are going to stand in front of a jury and say, they're whacky. >> all prosecuted based upon the result. thank god that nobody got killed or nobody's dying here. >> you know what -- >> okay. >> -- b.s. and i am holding my tongue, all right? don't start trying to tell me there's not a prosecution because the baby happened to live. you know what, that is thanks to god. this is definitely a miracle. but huh-uh. no, no, no. they can be forgiven while they are behind bars. but what i want to figure out and the grandmother is with me. kandis boyer has driven nearly 900 miles to get to her baby granddaughter. ms. boyer, you just told me that your daughter, baby shannon's
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mother, has said, "so many different things." like, what? what she saying? >> caller: for one that she didn't know where her child was. for two that she did not harm her child. and the stories were always different. she's very confused. very confused. and you know, but we're going to stand behind my daughter. i love my daughter deeply and we're behind her 100%, no matter what she has to go view? right. well, she is very, very lucky to have you for a mother, ms. boyer. but i don't see how those stories are different. what does she say in one story that was different from another story? >> caller: well, for instance, she took the baby out for a walk at one time, went for a walk, came back, didn't have the baby. another story, 30 seconds later would be i went for a walk at this time and came back and put the baby to bed, woke up, she
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was gone. just so many different stories that -- it's unbelievable how confused my daughter is. >> go ahead, mrs. boyer. >> caller: but she's always -- she's always had this confusion, mentally confusion problem. she's always -- she's been numerous counseling over the years. she needs help and she's going to get the help she needs now. >> ms. boyer, is the man on the birth certificate actually the biological father? because we've been told he's not. >> caller: i do not know that. >> just to get food stamps. >> caller: i do not know that at all. i do not know that at all. >> back to you clark goldband. now those are different stories. what was the story they told police when they made that 911 call? >> well, the mom told law enforcement, simply, that she went to sleep around 3:00 a.m. woke up around 11:00 a.m. shannon was gone. even though she was sleeping in
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the same room just feet away. >> okay, pat brown, you're the criminal profiler. mommy manipulated? >> it might had been manipulated but i'm also seeing pathological lying. it's not a matter of confusion it's the problem, you try one story and you get that, that doesn't sound too good and you change your story. i knowledge that she went with the haleigh cummings story because it worked for them so she's thinking this will work to me. >> to bethany marshall. psychoanalyst. author of "deal breakers." joining us out of l.a. i'm not buying it? >> no. >> this grandmother is standing behind her daughter and i appreciate that but i do not believe what the girl is saying because she's told so many different stories and the story she told police is completely -- a completely third edition. now we're hearing she wanted to get rid of the baby so she gave the baby away. >> i think this baby's mother has a long history of acting confused to her own mother in order to avoid responsibility for what she's really done. and in this case what she did,
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she gave her own baby away. she had no maternal extinct as marc klaas said towards her own child. i think she allowed herself to be manipulated by the other woman who resented the intrusion. >> what, i have to take issue with that. >> yes. >> you don't allow yourself to be manipulated. if you're allowing yourself to be manipulated, you're not manipulated. you're going along with a scheme. and bottom line, this baby nearly died, stuffed into of what looks to be a wooden coffin hidden up underneepgt a bed, draped with material, covered up so police can't find it. this was not a matter of giving the child away to be adopted or else they would have not lied to police and put the baby in what looks to be a coffin. out to the lines. celiste in texas. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> what's your question, dear? >> caller: i batch your show all of the time and i appreciate what you do and god bless the men who found that baby but one of the questions that's been answered about the baby's abuse, but you look in that baby's eyes
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and you can tell that it's not a happy baby. a happy baby has happy eyes and this baby does not have happy eyes. >> good question. dr. cartwright, you've looked at the baby via filmp. how does the baby look tour, quickly. >> well, it certainly looks somewhat healthy but i would countir the argument that this child is really healthy. the child looks malnourished. the child has a large head compared to the rest the child which would indicate a lack of nutrition. and i would agree with the caller. i think that the child's eyes don't look that great. >> we'll be right back with dr. cartwright taking your calls. but tonight, our family album. here are photovers of the twins. lucy and john david. this is immediately after their birth. and i do not believe that they would be turning to this week if not without your prayers. and in connecticut, here's vicky and 2-year-old daughter eva dressed as i tiger for halloween. texas friends. high schoolteacher shelly and teen daughters margaret and macy.
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cheerleaders. a beautiful wedding photo of georgia friends chris and robin. looking on, connecticut friends of the show. linda, brian, kayla, michael and friends, jazzy and rooster. they never miss a show.
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the shock waves are hitting even veteran judges. >> mr. sowell, 28 years on being on this bench, this is without question the most serious set of allegations that i've ever faced. >> reporter: but how in the world could suspect anthony sowell or anyone allegedly murder so many victims hiding at least 11 bodies in the middle of a busy neighborhood? >> there were nobody know because nobody had seen them around here, walking, scrapping, picking up cans. just chilling like a normal person. >> reporter: but could a normal person invite women in only to have them vanish without anyone
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noticing? all but one of the women dug up from a backyard and found inside of the house are nameless. and until there's a dna match, no one yet knows who they are or where they came from. the one identified victim is 52-year-old from a town outside of cleveland, reported missing by her family a year ago. it's not that neighbors didn't smell something awful, a city councilman says even he got a call about did in 2007. >> we received a phone call from a resident that said, councilman, there's a foul odor that's coming from across the street and it smells like a dead person. not dead meat, not dead animal, dead person. >> straight out to dan hagerty with we ws. i understand that police now think that 14 more missing women may be dead at the hands of former marine sowell.
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>> well, right now we know from hisnous cleveland, it's 11 bodi bodies. we keep saying life bodies, ten bodies and one skull so something more to be found here. police are back at house tonight. they'll be back here tomorrow and the next day. they have the fire department with them, cadaver dogs, they're knocking down the walls. looking for pretty much anything that they can find. but it is a very long road for them especially now that they're even naming a third victim has been identified. tashana culver. a 31 year poemd she lived on the same street where anthony sowell lived. and she was never reported missing at all. we just got back from her family's home. hey still live on that street. this is 45 minutes ago. and we talked to her four kids. she has four children. she's been missing for a year. they thought she was with her boyfriend down in akron. never reported her missing. and in fact, the police notified them. we know this wasn't a dna identification. >> to stacey newman, our producer on the story. what more can you tell me about the story, stacy? >> let me tell you about the other victim that they've
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identified today, nancy. her name is 31-year-old talasha fortson. she went missing in june of this year. she's from east cleveland. and we have found out that in order to make a positive i.d. on her, cops had to take dna from one of her small children. >> so she leaves small children behind. speaking of the victims, 11 lady victims that we know of so far. the excavation, the tearing down, literally tearing down the walls of this home set to start looking for more dead ladies. there's the possibility tonight that 14 more women may be dead at the hands of former marine anthony sowell. that would raise the tally to 25 dead women. with me right now very special
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guests, joining us at their family home, barbara carmichael, the mother of victim taronia carmichael and also with her donita carmichael, her daughter. and also joining us debra williams, she's the aunt of victim telacia fortson, her body identified today. first, to barbara carmichael, the mother of murdered victim tonia carmichael. and as they are speaking, rosie, i would like you to show those beautiful photos we have of tonia carmichael. look at that smile. look at her. to her mother, barbara carmichael. ms. carmichael, thank you for being with us. when did you learn your daughter was one of the victims, allegedly, of anthony sowell?
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>> tuesday. and thank you for having us. it was tuesday afternoon. >> wednesday -- >> it was wednesday. >> uh-huh. >> the days are melting together here lately. >> you know, ms. carmichael -- >> wednesday afternoon. >> -- i know how that feels. when the days just all -- time just seems to stop. and everything starts blending together. >> right. >> ms. carmichael -- >> exactly. >> -- would you tell me about your little girl. would you please tell me about her. what was she like growing up? >> she's always been a beautiful person to me, of course. very lively. very active. very fun-loving, outgoing and friendly. i used to tell her, don't be so friendly to people that you don't know, but this is the way she was. growing up, i had to kind of watch her, keep tight reins on
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her like you do most children but she grew up to be a lovely adult. she had three children who she dearly loved, devoted her life to caring for by herself. >> really? >> she was a medical secretary. yes. >> she brought them up on her own? >> by herself. >> and she had -- >> no husband. >> and i believe two girls and a boy, right? >> right. the oldest girl is 37. middle girl is 32. her son is 24. >> and with us tonight is donita carmichael, this istonia, one of her daughters. d donnita, if you could, could you tell me one of your most vivid memories of your mother in life? >> it's donnita, nancy. and the most vivid thing, wow. there's so many, it's hard to
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pick one. but i will just say when she says, clean the dishes, clean the dishes. >> you know what, i'm just thinking about my little girl lucy about my little girl lucy and my little boy and how she must feel, looking down from you on heaven, and realizing you're going to have to go on with your mother. with me, right now, deborah williams. she's the aunt of victim talacia. ms. williams, thank you for being with us. when did you learn that your niece is one of the many, many victims? >> today i guess about 1:00, 1130. it was very hard. we have to constantly pray for
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the children. >> how old are her children? >> the oldest one is 6 and the other one is 4 and the other one is 2 1/2.
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seven died of lig ga tur strangulation and, two, the body precludes and straight out to the former nypd, bill, i imagine that many, if not all of those 14 women police are talking about will be connected to
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seoul. >> yes, and the sowell. >> and then they will be able to tie them to the victims and this is primarily what they are going to be doing. as a result of the dna evidence that they may be able to have and further in the case, they may be able to build quite a case with this monster. >> you're right, bill. and to doctor, a lot of these women are skelatalinized. how can they ever make an identification. >> certainly that would help to identify the particular person and also there is still dna to be found, even in any tissue, really. it may be something where they can still get dna, even though it is just bones.
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what are cops telling you about this case, about sowell? >> that's just it, nancy, we have not spoken to any police at this time. >> you know what? >> what. >> i'll try to get in touch with them for you tonight. >> everyone, let's stop and remember, army private first-class, just 19 in ft. wayne, indiana, awarded the army commendation metal and service metal known to make other people
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smile. thanks to our guest, especially you for being with us. and happy birthday to our secret stars, floor manager samantha. uh-oh, she's turning 23. you're getting on up there, samantha. happy birthday, dear. i'll see you tomorrow night at 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend. >> tonight, rihanna has proved that domestic violence can touch anyone. we'll talk about the trauma that the comedian brett butler a. woman who knows about abuse firsthand. and on the lighter note, i'll
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discuss other news of the day. all of that and more coming up.
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tonight, singer rihanna was saying it was a mistake to go back to the man who beat her up. i'll speak with a victim of domestic violence. also, carrie prejean stripped of her title and then it was discovered that she stripped for the camera. and christian groups are protesting an upcoming episode of "gossip girl." he wait till you see what we're
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doing tonight. we've all seen the horror and seen the shocking picture. rihanna beat at the hands of her famous boyfriend, chris brown. today rihanna spoke publicly about the incident in an interview with diane sawyer. >> this happened to me. i didn't cause this. i didn't do it. this happened to me and it could happen to anybody. >> there are a lot of women who have experienced what i did. but not in public. so it made it really difficult. >> with me now to discuss the all-too common problem of domestic violence are brett
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butler, actress and comedian, a victim of domestic abuse and kevin powell, including "open letters to america" and also, dr. gail saltz from the new york presbyterian hospital. brett, let me start with you. i've known you for many years and i was very surprised to hear that you were a victim of domestic abuse. that was something thaw really never told anybody. >> i was surprised, too. >> when did this all happen to you? >> i was 20. i married someone that i had known three months. membership friend's mother said you're finally settling down when i got married at 20. but i got hit the day after we got married and i've never been hit in my life. i don't know how to say this. when the picture of rihanna came out and i saw her and i talked to some other friends, i called
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them, i sort of went through like trauma for a few days and something was wrong i had seen and people twited their way to chris brown and do that when you're at home. the issue is something that happens to everyone. if you pick apart one person, you make it seem so rare. yeah, it happened a long time ago. >> which part of the story did you relate to the most? >>. >> being 20 years old and having someone -- our bodies are built to touch and when someone hits you, it's like, what part of the dna was this in.
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the the shame of it is amazing and years later when i met more women -- by the way, there's no club. there's no friend you call. even your best friends are like, get out. you do keep going back. i do know -- >> a lot of women blame thefs receives. did you blame yourself? >> of course. >> how did do you that? >> if you were less this, more than, it wouldn't happen. his mother said, i told him not to hit you so much. and i remember thinking, when? just on birthdays? it's um -- it was hard -- it was hard, too, because that happened in my life years before i was ever in show business and then i got a show and then they went and found him you said, i told
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them not to hit you so much. it's like a given that any man is going to hit a woman. >> yeah, and he didn't come from that. it's sort of like alcoholism in a way. it can skip generations. i think it's terrific that people who have done that, who -- we can choose every day to join some new tribe. and i'm in the one that doesn't get hit or high anymore. i don't think, also, i just feel really proud for rihanna for doing this. i think she's done it in a strong way. i don't don't think i've heard anything from her. i just urge people to be careful to event on just one person. >> did commodity help you? is that the way that you copied with all of this? >> you know what, i shouldn't say this, but i remember once alone and it only happens alone, he was actually choking me into unconsciousness and started to hit me in the head and it came to my head. i said, hey, pick one.
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i know that sounds horrible. i made myself kind of laugh in this way. yet when we did grace under fire and tom warner and mar see carr said, how would you feel about that being the character -- >> you did use part of that in your character in "grace under fire" which was a very effective show, i think. >> it took me years to stop jumping when people came up behind me. there was a lot of surprise maneuvers in domestic violence relationships and ip wanted to say, from my side, i hit the new age word but i stayed for three years and danced with that. i chose -- yeah, ip didn't have a lot of options, but i made that part of my life at the time. >> uh-huh. >> spreading my wings in a bigger way. yes, it saved me. it got me toward comedy and toward -- and i don't do the
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comedy of rape. i want to say this and i don't say this easily. my ex-husband's son says, they do not know who did t. by the wear, they do not know who beat his mother in into a semivegetative state but she lost custody of her younger child and that happened to their second wife. they do not know who did that. but his son wrote me a lerl about it. >> the ex-wife? >> uh-huh. the one after me. he didn't press charges. he didn't go to jail. he married someone else and went to jail. this child has been in touch with me and he's a grown man now. on one end i said, if i reported him, you wouldn't be here and to anybody on the giving or receiving end of it, there's so many ways out of it that rn not
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happening to me. so -- >> brett, stay with us. and he said, rihanna said t. can happen to anyone. couldn't happen to anyone. >> you know, there are probably some people who, frankly, if it started happening would just walk out. there are people who are more susceptible, more able to be co--dependent with someone and able to pick someone that is volatile. with that being said, it could happen to a lot of women and you would think that it would never happen to them. >> i know. >> all kinds of women, women who appear to be very strong and women who have said to themselves, i would never let him hit me. and some people are in tla position and therapy for this, did he find out anything about
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yourself? >> i was reading, "i'm okay, you're okay" when i was 11, yes. so all of that self -- yes, i d until the person that it's happening to realizes that there really are choices and there's no safety net under you. >> there is often answer susceptibility, a low self-esteem, a feeling that you're deserving of punishment that you might not be conscious of. >> kef virngs you are a reformed abuser. do you have any ideas? >> well, definitely, because i do a lot of work these days around gender violence prevention and i think that we need to be clear that violence is a learned behavior. as i've been saying to a lot of young men and around the country, as many men we're
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socialized to know that it has to do with aggressiveness and with girls in fear to us which means that we can relate to them as sexual objectses. i cannot tell you how many stories we've seen of women around the country who live in fear of their husband, of their boyfriends, men in their lives that have been abusive to them. and one of the things said by one of your guest, the self-esteem issue comes up every time. i mean, just this year, two of my friends, who are highly professional women who would you never think would end newspaper a situation, both of them have battered this year. you never know who is going to be struck by this. any kind of a person, could be a strong person, independent women, anybody. >> absolutely. >> brett, do you think it's fair
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to say that rihanna should have come out earlier? she's coming out now. she has a new cd and is it too cynical to say that she timed it -- >> i'm not there. i'm not there. she's 20 years old. >> she's too young. >> i was 35 when i became famous and that through me for a loop. the shame is crippling. that's a big part of it. >> okay. don't go away. we'll have a lot more on this subject.
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i fell in love with that person. that's embarrassing.
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that's embarrassing that that's the type of person that i fell in love with, so far in love. so unconditional that i went back. >> that's rihanna in an interview with diane sawyer saying that she was embarrassed for having been in love with her abuser. joining our conversation is rita smith, the national director of coalition against violence. i keep hearing the word "love." is there really love in this relationship or just co-dependent see? >> that's an interesting conversation. that's what she knew as love. and so for her she was deeply in love with him. i think what we have to do is disconnect love and violence. if people understand that there is no violence in love, then it can't be love. >> to me the definition of love is that you care about the well-being of the other person more than for yourself even. that's why when you love a child, you worry about them and care about them.
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>> right. >> if you hit somebody, why do you call it love? it's impossible to call that love? >> unfortunately, people have very sick definitions of love. when you have low self-esteem and want to love yourself, you try to control the other person to give you power. >> absolutely. >> to love yourself more. >> so these are very self-centered people that do these kinds of things. there's a lot of nars sichl and insecurity involved. she said something so important, she was embarrassed. >> embarrassed, yeah. >> because she is what keep this is problem hidden because the women realize at some level it reveals something about themselves, that she didn't want the world to know that she felt that insecure and that dependent. >> it felt weak. >> weak that she would go back. and it's a shame because had she been able to grab that and gone sooner, it would have made a big impact. >> kevin, go ahead. >> she should have said
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something right away. just because you're famous doesn't mean that you have high self-esteem. she's a very talented young lady and i think she needed this time to do some serious healing. and in the workshops that i do with males across the power, we talk about the need for power and to control women. and what i always say to men, your definition of manhood should be rooted in nonviolence real love and never use derogatory language and flot engage in an emotional low abusive language and when we don't have that, we have a recipe for domestic violence that is of epidemic proportions. >> is it safe to say that these perpetrators were abused as children? >> yes, it is. >> oh, absolutely. >> most often there has been abuse and actually that is their model for love, which is a lousy, lousy model. >> let me ask you something,
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brett. >> no, i was not. >> you were not hit as a child? >> no. like i say, my mother's idea of a panging was hard not to giggle. i never got struck. >> not the person being abused, but the abuser. >> sometimes the person being abused has been, too, but more often it's a repetition on the part, particularly of men, who have had abusive fathers. >> i wanted to say this about love. yes, we love them and these are not all of horrible, 100% don't pleatly bad people. they are -- nas sichl by definition includes never being able to get enough attention, if i looked that up. but they are not all bad. that's what throwing this baby out with the bath water s embarrassed is a light word for what she feels. >> okay. listen to what else she says in
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the interview with diane sawyer? >> what from you doing to fight back? >> i just wanted it to stop. i just wanted it to stop. i was not interested in hurting him back. >> okay. how -- do a lot of victims fight back, rita? >> well n. a variety of different ways they do. some of them use violence and some of them use very creative tactics from getting out of the house. fighting is a relative term. they are trying to protect themselves and they try to use as creative of ways. sometimes they pick up with the interesting part that we need to understand that people need support for trying to get away and that what is happening is someone is making a choice to use violence. he's making a choice to use that violence. >> brett, did you fight back? >> no. >> you did not? >> no. i know what people say i seem
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like, whatever. i never hit back. and the burning bed was a farrah fawcett film was not out then. we didn't even know it happened. and i want to say this. i could have died so many times. this is what it took to make me leave. we were in a hotel and he had a rifle and shot it at me and i heard the bullet go by my ear. and for a smart person, i remember thinking, you know, i don't think there could be any closer call than that. at one point he was sleeping out of the blue and i found a pipe wrench and i remember thinking about, very clinically, just ending it. and he was asleep. and we leave a million times and it was -- the all of secret of it coming to light. if that cost reyawn na something, i'm sorry. i know it's really a big topic of young people now. >> we'll be right back. don't go away.
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we're back discussing the abuse victim of rihanna and the wider issue of domestic violence in this country. there will be a number that you can call and you need to get help. let me ask both of you, you and greg, for viewers at home, they are listening and watching, what should somebody do who is watching this show and is in the middle of a domestic abuse situation at home with their husband? is there anybody? >> there's really no two ways about it. you have to pre-plan because you have to go somewhere that your chous cannot find you. you should find the help number, find a shelter that you know
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you're going to, a friend you know you're going to with no clue that you are going. you bring your kids with you. if you have children, take whatever moneys that you can to get -- but you must get out and rally your friends around you and be completely silent. because, unfortunately, in this situation, a man in a rage who is already trying to control you and you step out of his control, it will really escalate. >> and you don't tip your hand -- >> you do not tip your hand but you must get out. >> brett, did do something like that to get out? >> yes and no. i left some much. i left a lot. you hope, you think he'll change. light years go by. if you're in it, you know by now that there are places for you. if you have kids, that is something -- to me, you know, what kevin was talking about, he stopped the cycle in his life. there are a lot of guys that have done that and are doing it.
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and i just think make it easier for people who are doing it to get help. the demon nye zags of a woman who is a batterer, if the shoe was on the other foot, look, i have my own screwy things. >> did you become violent after all of this? >> no. i don't have that -- i've got a lot of fault for a lot of things that are wrong and it takes a long time to get better and trust. even after you leave him, you're struck with the woman that let this happen to her. >> and if you're a guy who did t. we all get new slats and i'm really glad that you're doing it. and -- >> what about these guys who apologize, they cry, they are on their knee, i'll never do it again. they don't really do it, do they? >> you know, they might even convince themselves of that in the moment. certainly they are going to convince you. >> yeah it's highly unusual that
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the man will hit you and not do it again. >> sure. >> the first time it hits, you know, obviously you have evidence that it take as long time and a lot of help. and before that hit comes, pay attention and because it feels unfair and and isolating isolating a family reflect with what is going on. >> it's like what you tell children. >> yes it's true. >> if you are being isolated, if you see that going on -- >> okay. >> thanks very much to all of my guests. thank you, brett. next, we're going to change the tone. three very funny ladies join me and we'll lighten things up a bit. carrie prejean, a lawsuit and a
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sex tape. that's quite a turn.
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we live in a land that you can choose same-sex marriage or opposite marriage and, you know what? in my country and in my family, i think that i believe that a marriage should be between a man and a woman. no offense to anybody out there. but that's how i was raised and that's how i think it should be, between a man and a woman. >> that is carrie prejean, who became the face of the anti-gay marriage movement.
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listen to this. reportedly reporters got their hands on a sex tape showing her engaging in a solo sex act. she likes to deal with a better class of people, i guess. here to address this, sandra and fran and lady, what is funner than the lottery than a conservative getting caught in a sex tape. is there anything better than that? >> they always do. it's before and after. >> that's right. >> a very sophisticated carrie prejean. >> and she's alone in it. >> that's the mystifying part of it. you know, the self-pleasuring, it's mildly gay. >> how do you get out? if there's another guy in it or another woman, then they would release it. she would have released it or the maid. >> well, people have access to photos nowadays.
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i don't understand -- >> if you take a film piece of playing with yourself -- >> that would never, ever happen. really. i mean, you know, it's like, no, no cameras. if you don't want to be seen doing something that might compromise you, then do not get in front of a camera and do it. and odds are, it's going to come back and haunt you. listen, she's certainly entitled to her opinion. i just don't understand why anybody can justify someone compromising someone's civil liberties. >> but she's got the christian thing going on. that it's against the bible or something. >> in the bible it says f. you masturbate you're going to get fur on your hands. >> winter is coming. i don't mind that idea. i would like to see fur
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everywhere. >> i know christians that live by the golden rule and are supportive of diversity and there are extremists everywhere and, you know, i i would like to think that she's the exception to the rule. >> well, this isn't carrie's first sex tape scandal. she got into trouble after tmz.com disclosed these pictures which she never disclosed to the committee before. she's a gorgeous girl. >> that just goes to show you -- from here. she looks great. >> put your glasses back on. >> it's like a wig embedded into her skull. she's like a barbie doll. >> you have to feel sorry for someone that thinks that it's okay to be objectified but draws
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the line when it's two people of the same sex loving each other. ignorance is -- >> she's not that bright. she's a smart girl. >> we are feeling sorry for the people living homeless on the street. >> shep only has that much to give. >> and carrie prejean doesn't quite get my pity. >> okay. >> let's move on, or we won't get -- voters in maine have rejected a bill that -- >> would it have made a difference if president obama had talked about this more -- or had talked about it at all, frankly? >> well, president obama does oppose these kinds of discriminatory measures, restricting and repealing and stripping away rights and would have helped, i believe, had he spoken out more clearly. >> do you think that obama was
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too quiet. >> i love obama but i think he's always too quiet. >> first of all, he has a million things to could. r do. i campaigned for him when he was running. we wanted him to solve every problem and end homeless and hunger. everybody wants the president to solve every problem. he has a lot on his plate. i do think that this is going to come down to a supreme court decision and it will. it will be legal in our lifetime. i can say, look, i'm married to a black man. we can overcome that hurdle. you should see our naked sex tape. >> here's the bottom line. we need to stop designing their clothes and see how quickly they come around and see how quickly we have gay marriage because everything looks them look sheek and hot and hip and the drag queens are snapping.
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but, honey -- i'm pretending. >> the truth with obama is that he was running against gay marriage. >> right. >> which part of that sentence don't the activists understand or believe? he said no. >> people want him to doll everything and he can't do everything but this will happen and i think that progressives have to be patient. we have two wars. people are going nuts. i'm sure there are -- >> >> and what i hope that we see is the don't ask, don't tell eliminated because that just doesn't work. >> that would be a great zing and they are. >> it's just always a domino affect and the more that i -- i do agree with you. it's going to ultimately become a supreme court civil rights issue.
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and just like int rags initial ideas -- >> sort of like the guy -- >> thank god. >> remember ted ted haggard? >> talk about needing an overhaul. okay. he was a leader of a mega church and he had sex with a mail prostitute, which he denied at first. >> don't we all? >> but listen to this. >> have you ever used meth before? >> no, i did not. and i did not ever use it with him. >> and did you ever have sex with him? >> no, i did not. >> so he confessed that he did have sex with a male prostitute. >> right. >> i think he believes now that he's over his homosexuality. and he's now an insurance agent. >> that's perfect. an insurance salesman.
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another scam. >> he goes on and recently he was making his comeback and says, i have a therapist and i ask my therapist, am i gay? and the therapist says, no, you just like to have sex with men. i mean, come on. what is the definition if not you want to have sex with people of your own gender? >> you would be amazed how many people draw that dissting shun. >> it's a lifestyle choice. he does not choose to want to live like a gay men and he wants to have the plesh nur private and never actually reveal it because it's shameful for him. >> okay. >> what do you think of the down low? >> the down low? >> the down low. >> that's a very atlanta thing. a famous author wrote about it constantly. it's detrimental to relationships, to women. >> to women. >> what is there to say? people need to come out and be who they are and learn to be comfortable with it.
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>> why is it that the loudest -- >> they are hiding behind it because they are full of shame and fear and fear-based and as soon as you can hide behind religion -- he was on the old dumbo. >> you have to wonder about people that have so much fire about something. >> what was the point? >> exactly. >> i love these people who say, the kids can't learn about homosexuality because it's going to make them gay. >> ridiculous. >> >> they've got to learn about it on the streets. >> are you kidding? drug, sex? >> i just came from a weekend seminar with the dalai lama and he said -- i.
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>> i thought you were boring. >> i wasn't boring at all. >> he says compassion is the answer and we must all live by the global rule and that does not mean a life without problems but a deliberate choice to solve problems peacefully. >> and what's worse is that will you say the edgiest things. imt fr i'm sure that the dalai lama didn't have to twist your arm to have compassion. >> and then i come on national television like this and i heard his message through my window. >> of course. >> we'll have more topics so don't go away.
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okay. that was an ad promoting aen upcoming scene in the show "gossip girls."
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sandra, let me ask you a question. are kids being told that threesomes are a good idea? >> well, i encourage my 3-year-old to get involved in a -- of course not. it's ironic. we have shows on with, you know, kate gosselin on with having eight kids. where's the birth control? then we wouldn't have to worry about three ways. we have to start by the education at home. it's out of control. >> it's bearing responsibility -- >> the cw channel is saying that the show is not targeted to teens. >> my mother loves it. >> there are teenagers in this show? >> yeah. >> and in the episode is there a down side? do these kids learn some kind of
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a lesson? let me just break the news to everybody here. if you don't know, teenagers have sex. i don't know if anybody -- like they do it and, first of all, we are not encouraging them not to do it but they do. if you don't think they are doing it, you're doing yourself a disservice. use it as a teaching moment. my father had a very specific -- >> i don't think most kids are going to avoid it, but they should be educated about birth control. >> i avoided it because i had a parent who actively talked. >> boys ran away. they were terrified. >> it's a longer segment. >> let me just show you some of the plaque cards, the posters that they are celebrating with the show.
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"a nasty piece of work" and mind blowing -- >> that's probably why they are -- >> and it's november suites. they are desperately trying to get ratings. >> i don't think anybody is going to watch something about sex and then run out immediately and do t they may be tantalized by it but -- >> i have to say that it's all about supply and demand. and even though it would be great if producers took some response -- social responsibility, you don't have to watch it. >> true. >> and if nobody watches it, believe me, they would stop writing the show. >> none of the affiliates have pulled the episodes. >> no. >> this was the lesson that my father used to give me every day when i would leave for school in high school, keep your grades and your drawers up. and it was hard for me to forget. >> which brings me to my last topic with you, girls, which is
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that the new york comedy festival is opening up and there's a whole bunch of guys and not one female. does that bother you? >> i've been asked this before. i think it depends on the money. for me, sometimes i played town hall recently. if you get stuck in a festival, nobody is going to come see you and you don't get enough attention and focus. i always believe to go into a city and do your own thing. unless you're starting or in a situation where you need an extra boost. >> there are a lot of up and comers. there are many not being -- the festivals are not for us. we can work and we can go and book our own clubs and dates. these young women who need a break are not being brought into
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this system where they are being seen and exposed to people. that's the problem. >> what about wanda sykes, who is getting her own late-night show. that's unusual. it's great. >> i think it's the timing. she's a black woman and we have a black president. >> well, there was a white president when i was doing it and i didn't get it. >> well, because you already have your show. we've all been waiting here for a long time in the power of position. and she's part of t and she's funny and talented. it would be interesting to see. one show and a limitation on how -- >> i think comedy is very cyclical. there was a time when there were mostly women stand-up comedians. you have doris filler and tony and -- right. so it -- elaine. >> they just did a cover saying, women are funny and taking
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overcome dee. now you look at a festival as big as this one and there are no women in it. the cycle was pretty short. >> isn't it interesting that fox enner tanment is so edgy and fo willhelm. >> do you think it will start a trend of more women in late night? all the shows are in trouble. jay is in trouble. >> it's on a saturday night, once a week. are they going to suddenly give a woman a nightly show? i don't know. >> okay, then. we'll be right back with more in a minute. stay tuned.
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i'm back with three talented, hard-working women. let's talk about what you're doing with your lives these days. you're doing some voice of an animated character? >> i have a new show called "archer." it's "family guy" meets "spies." i'm stacked in it, which is awesome. i come home, my husband is watching and he's like, look at her. so that comes out in january. like animated stuff is so easy
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and fun. >> and it's the 20th anniversary of "the simpsons." >> i have a music album out "whatever it takes" and i will be at joe's pubs from december 26th through new year's. and i have a new film coming out called "dare" which is a coming of age film that i play a therapist in. and i'm on tour as well. you can find out more online. >> and fran has a skin care line. >> launched on hsn. it's all natural, it's eco friendly. look at that packaging. and we launch november 10th.
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it's a great product. it's my company. i developed it. i'm not a gun for hire, it's a real deal. >> that's great. you're also doing some standup? >> i'm on tour. >> where are you going? >> i'm on tour and my dvd is called "it's lit." i'm in atlanta this weekend and then i go to california, raleigh, north carolina. >> that's not the next mountain i want to climb. >> you did enough with that?
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>> talk at a lot of work. >> i just climbed that mountain and it turned into classic television. so it's not something i want to do right now. it's on nick at night all over again. >> was it hard to get a sitcom all about a jewish family? >> when we got the green light, we got a call that if we could make the character italian that proctor and gamble would buy it outright. i said it's not going to be authentic and let's just do it jewish and hope for the best. >> and they did and it's a great hit. like other shows. >> embraced worldwide. >> thank you to all of you. and thanks to everybody. we're going off the air now. goodbye. see you tomorrow.
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the florida panhandle. a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom with her parents, vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story becoming more distorted by the minute. bombshell, tonight in the last hours, cops blast into the home of the baby-sitter. and to their shock, discover a tiny baby shannon. just 11 pounds, trapped, hidden and locked inside a wooden chest. no bottle. no pillow. no stuffed toy. but miracle tonight is
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7-month-old baby shannon, alive! behind bars, the baby-sitter whose own little stepson went missing without a trace 22 years ago. he's never been found. oh, yeah. and in the cell next to baby-sitter, mommy. that's right, mommy, who wanted to get rid of her own infant girl, little baby shannon. >> we are the proud papas of a little girl. this is shannon lee dedrick. >> relatives of baby shannon learned that not only had she been found but that she's alive. >> we do not usually get to the happy endings that happened here today. >> reporter: shannon was found in a box under the bed of susan baker, her step-aunt.
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>> the only thing this in that box was a blanket and a box of baking soda to cover the odor because she had fouled her diaper, soiled it. >> if you want to see a bunch of grown men cry, tonight we rushed her to the hospital and we all calling home for our wives to let them know we had found this baby safe. >> at an emotional news conference today the washington county sheriff talked about finding little shannon alive. >> this box that had a lid on it and also had a had clasp on it. she was in the box -- excuse me. she was in the box for almost 12 hours in a closed box. >> and breaking news tonight, live, ohio. cops raid the home of a convicted sex offender accused
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of yet another sex attack. inside his three-story cleveland home, seasoned detectives stunned. women's bodies hidden throughout. bodies on every floor of the home, even stuffed in the crawl spaces. breaking tonight, the body count rises as the excavation goes on, in addition to the 11 dead women found, so far, in the three-story home of former marine anthony sowell. police now suspect another 14 missing women may have died at his hands. in the last hours, real-life "csi," firefighters, homicide detectives, cadaver dogs -- all back at sowell's home, as they begin to literally tear down the walls. in the search for dead women. and also breaking tonight, two more lady victims identified. 31-year-old tishana culver and
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telacia fortson, mother of three. positively identified. tonight, relatives of two lady victims with us live. their mother, their daughter, bodies, hidden in this house of horrors for the last year. and in another bizarre twist, we confirm just weeks after sowell's release from the pen, he lifts himself on a sex website seeking, quote, a submissive. is this one of the ways the former marine trolled for victims? tonight, unsuspected neighbors in shock over an alleged serial killer living amongst them. >> the body count increases in the house of horrors in cleveland. >> 11 victims.
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there were six inside the house and five recovered from the yard. >> they describe it, after the fact, as a smell of death. of rotting flesh of dead bodies. >> we received a phone call from a resident that said, councilman, there's a foul odor that's coming from across the street. and it smells like a dead person. not dead meat, not dead animal, dead person. >> you could smell the stench a block away. >> literally going to rip this home apart. they're going to tear down the walls. they're going on check every inch. they will make sure that nothing else is inside of this house. that there's no more evidence and for sure there are no more bodies. >> the bodies buried in the ground, decomposed eight times slower than a body left in air. so we had two in the third floor out in the air, we had two bodies under dirt, and we had five buried in the yard. so they're all decomposing at different rates. >> go back to the house and dig a little deeper because of the skull and we need to find where
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the rest of the bodies are at. >> good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. bombshell tonight, live, the florida panhandle. a newborn baby girl sleeping in the same bedroom with her parents, vanishes without a trace. halloween. the story becoming more distorted by the minute. bombshell tonight, in the last hours, cops blasted to the home of the baby-sitter. and to their shock, discover a tiny baby shannon. just 11 pounds, trapped, hidden and locked inside a wooden chest. no bottle, no pillow, no stuffed toy. but miracle tonight is, there is a god. 7-month-old baby shannon alive. >> shannon dedrick was found in a 2x3 foot cedar chest underneath a bed.
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understand, under the bed, the box shoved in the back and a lot of material in front of it. to deceive anyone who was looking. >> she's missing for five days and she's so tiny that we expected the worse. >> they learned that shannon was alive as she was brought into the room by the sheriff and gave the baby an emotional welcome back. >> cops say they found baby shannon dedrick lying in a 2x3 foot cedar box. shoved under a bed. stashed there for over 12 hours. the baby-sitter/aunt is charged in this. she has a violent criminal past. and now we're hearing and just hours ago cops charged files against baby shannon's mom, the one who reported her missing halloween day. >> just hours ago investigators weren't even sure if baby shannon was still alive. now she's found alive and well, reunited with her family. >> i was immediately taken to the northwest florida community hospital here in chipley where
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she was examined by the local doctor. shannon is currently located at the hospital and we understand that she's in good condition. >> straight out to will glover, joining us from the panama city, "news herald." will, what happened, and what led cops to storm the home of the babysitter? >> well, apparently, nancy, this morning a story about an e-mail that ms. baker had sent to governor charlie crist detailing allegations of abuse. that had piqued the interest of law enforcement and they were able to perhaps maybe prod them along. they decided to go out to ms. baker's house out in rural washington county. about 8:30 last night, they went in and received consent to search the house. at the back of the bed and
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pushed back behind things and no one could see them was a 2x3 cedar chest inside when they opened the latch they found alive and well baby shannon. >> you know it's a miracle. and it's my understanding, to you clark goldband, the baby is not just a cardboard box under a bed. this child was in a wooden chest. take a look at this. locked down. it's like a cedar chest. and nothing to eat. nothing -- of course she can't eat. only seven months. no bottle, no toy, nothing. in fact, they had put baking soda in the box because the baby would poop and the baby had been in this box for many, many hours locked inside a box, clark goldband? >> 10 to 12 hours, nancy, what law enforcement are saying. and you are right, that is a thick two-foot by three-foot chest and you have to wonder exactly how much air that child had been getting, although law enforcement did say in a press
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conference the child did receive some form of oxygen. >> joining me right now is a very special guest, kandis boyer. this is baby shannon's grandmother. ms. boyer, thank you for being with us. >> thank you. >> where is the baby tonight? >> well, she is safely in the arms of a wonderful couple in a medical house. she is in the custody of the state of florida. and she's just in wonderful health. she has a clean bill of health. and she's beautiful. i spent three hours with her today. >> and i understand you have quite a drive to get to your little grandchild. how far did you go to get to her today? >> yes. today, well, it took us about 14 hours to get here. 875 miles. >> 700 miles. grandmother -- >> 800. 875 miles.
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>> 800 miles. nearly 900 miles. she's driven to get to this baby. ms. boyer, whose mother are you, the mother or the daddy's? >> christina mercer is my daughter. >> she is behind bars tonight. why in the world would she want to give her baby to the baby-sitter? >> well, as confused as tina is, i -- i have to tell you, she has emphatically stated that she did not and would not ever harm her child. and in my whole heart believe that she was manipulated into this situation. >> what about it, marc klaas? what do you think, mommy manipulated? >> well, i -- it's against every maternal extinct i've ever heard of to give up your child and then report it missing. this is one the craziest stories i've ever heard in my life. >> well, all i know is, this, marc klaas, this baby is alive.
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but it has been locked for 12 hours in a wooden chest. no bottle. no toy. nothing. police find the baby. today washington county sheriffs, congratulations! we are taking your calls live. with us, baby shannon's maternal grandmother. mommy behind bars with the baby-sitter who has a record of her own. >> she was in the box for almost 12 hours, in a closed box. shannon was immediately taken to the northwest florida community hospital here in chipley where she was examined by the local doctor. shannon is currently located at the hospital and we understand that she's in good condition.
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the story of baby shannon, the 7-month-old baby girl, missing in the florida panhandle five days is now safe and in protective custody. shannon dedrick was found in a cedar box under a bed in her baby-sitter's home in chipley, florida. >> at approximately 9:55 p.m., shannon dedrick was found in a 2x3 foot cedar chest underneath a bed. this box had a lid on it and also had a clasp on it. >> authorities are planning to charge the baby-sitter, her
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husband and the baby's own mother in the disappearance of that little girl. >> says shannon was found in a box under the bed of susan baker, her step-aunt. they believe she had been in that box since around 8:00 wednesday morning. >> susan baker, the baby-sitter, also sending an e-mail to the governor of florida charlie christ, pleading with him just a few weeks ago to save the child. >> the family's joyous right now. >> my life will be a lot better now now that i know that she's safe. >> we rushed her to the hospital and we all called home to our wives to let them know we found this baby safe. >> i've got in my hand here the letter that this so-called baby-sitter sent to the governor complaining about these parents. this has clearly been in the works for some time. but how do you convince the birth mother to give up her 7-month-old baby girl? take a look at this e-mail to the governor.
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"the baby's being abused. i have seen the dad pick her up and shake her because she cries. others in home have shaken the baby. she accuses the pampltss of smoking heavily and dog dope, dealing their food stamps for drugs, all around the baby." joining me right now, special guest, dr. robert cartwright, out of atlanta. pediatrician. dr. cartwright, if a little baby, this -- i mean they told me when i brought the twins home, not to even have somebody that smoked around them because it could induce s.i.d.s., sudden infant death syndrome. and here they are smoking pot, according to this source, and heavily smoking cigarettes around the baby, that we know of, much less shaking the baby? >> absolutely. this is something that really is outrageous and we really encourage parents nor smoke around their children. certainly that applies to certain regular cigarettes but
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smoking marijuana is even that much worse. there are certainly plenty more chemicals and toxins that are in marijuana smoke as compared to cigarette smoke. neither is good. we certainly than cigarette smoke is a risk factor for sudden infant death syndrome as you have mentioned. it's a risk for other infections. ear infections. sinus and nasal issues. asthma, other lung diseases. >> and you know, dr. cartwright, the list goes on and i will not even mention the fact that the baby is locked inside this cedar chest. you know back out to you, will glover with the panama city "news herald." a lot of e-mails and phoners are calling in that this looks more like a coffin. what about that, will glover? >> i would agree. it's very small. it's more like a -- almost like a larger jewelry box, if you ask me. and she tucked it back there and apparently would put the baby there every time the cops would inquire about anything. >> this is just sick. we are talking your calls. out to diane in florida. hi, diane.
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>> caller: hi, nancy. i love your show and your twins are beautiful. >> thank you. >> caller: my question is, exactly how was baby shannon breathing in that locked box? >> good question. what about it, will glover? how was the baby breathing? >> there apparently were holes that were poked into the wooden box that would allow the baby to breathe and of course now the baby was also found under a bed, back against the wall, with stuff covering the surrounding ,you know, surrounding this chest. >> this is a miracle. this is a miracle. look at this baby. rosy, keep it on a full screen. look at the baby. she's absolutely gorgeous. when i think of what could have happened to this child -- and out to you, pat brown. it sounds like they poked holes in the box like it's a fifth grader's science experiment with a bug or a rat and you poke holes so it can breathe. >> well, exactly. this baby-sitter wasn't
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concerned about the baby. this is an object to her. whether it lives or dies, doesn't matter as long as she gets to play her game, get attention and do what she wants. >> bethany marshall, remember the baby-sitter's little 6-year-old stepson's body has never been found. >> i think this baby-sitter had a preoccupation with getting the baby away from the mother in order to have the mother's attention all to herself. i've treated women like this in my practice. and they're envious of babies. they resent them and they want to get rid of them.
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we are the proud papas of a little girl. this is shannon lee dedrick. we found her safe. we do not usually get to that happy ending that we have had happen here today. if you want to have seen a bunch of grown men cry, tonight when we rushed her to the hospital and we was all calling home to our wives to let them know we'd found this baby safe. >> i did the same thing. i came running out of the room. i said the baby, baby shannon is alive. i couldn't believe it. and you know what, he's right, marc klaas. this is the exception to the rule. this never happens. >> well, it happens occasionally. let me tell you, nancy, that the klaaskids search team was integral in recovering this little girl. >> really? >> prior to going into the house, our dog handlers brad and
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tammy dennis were systematically searching the perimeter to see if there was a body there. and it was only after that area was cleared that the law enforcement decided to -- >> go in. >> go into the house and ultimately find the baby. we're very proud to have been part of this. >> and i'm proud of you, marc klaas along with the washington county sheriff's office. there is a miracle. with us tonight special guest kandis boyer, this is shannon's maternal grandmother. ms. boyer, what is your daughter telling you? >> actually, my daughter's not telling anybody anything. she's denying this. she said she let her care for the child and that was it. >> well, if she let her care for the child, then why did she tell police she didn't know where the baby was if she had given the baby over just to be cared for? >> i just really can't answer that.
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she said so many different things. she seems to be very confused. and her frame of mind is very confused. that's what i have gathered have talking to her myself since i have been here.
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we're going to take you straight back to baby shannon's discovery. but first out to michael board. woai newsradio with breaking news. what can you tell me about the latest in the killeen, texas shooting, michael? >> well, we now know that major malik hasan who shot and killed 11 people on ft. hood near texas this afternoon, before he was killed, was actually going to be deployed later this month. he was set to be deployed out to iraq and this was going to be his first deployment. it talks a lot about his mindset. although we don't know exactly what triggered this tragic shooting at ft. hood. we do know, sort of, what was going on in his mind when he pulled two handguns and started firing wildly into this crowd
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which is here at this readiness facility here at ft. hood. >> i was told they were m-16s, is that true? >> no, it's handguns. the m-16s is what the infantrymen would use. since he's a major, he's an army officer, they were two handguns. >> so they were not m-16s. how many dead? >> a total of 12 dead, including may nor hassan. that death toll is probably going to rise later this evening. there were two of the people who were wounded who are in very critical condition. one woman who was apparently shot in the face. >> oh. >> reports that she might have already passed. we're trying to confirm that, but nancy, expect the death toll to rise tonight. >> and let me ask you this, did hasan have a family he was leaving behind, if he were to deploy to iraq? >> that's not clear yet. i know he's from virginia. he comes from -- apparently he comes from a family that's an islamic family. they did not approve of him joining the army. i do not believe he had a family
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that he's left behind. but you know that's all going to come out as the investigation continues into this. >> with us michael board, woai newsradio. and michael board, very quickly, at first the media was told that there were three shooters, but it's my understanding there's only one, hasan. >> that's what it looks like. there is still one person who is being questioned, but several people that were questioned earlier today have already been released. it looks like major hasan was the only shooter. >> okay, everybody, we're taking your calls live. i want to go back to baby shannon's discovery. we'll bring you the latest regarding the mass shooting at ft. hood, that's killeen, texas, as it comes in. as you know, 31 shot, 12 known dead. many of them in critical condition. the hospital tonight. i want to go back right now to the maternal grandmother of baby shannon. she's with us tonight. kandis boyer, but first unleash the lawyers. mickey sherman, veteran criminal defense attorney, author of "how you can defend those people?"
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and renowned attorney out of new york, richard herman. let's see, sherman and herman up on the big screen. there they are. all right, herman, i don't know what you're -- thanks. i don't know what you're smiling about, but i would like to know how you can weave the story of mommy was manipulated. she didn't know what was happening. >> well, first, let me thank marc klaas for doing an incredible job discovering, helping in the discovery, five days after the report of missing. that's phenomenal. thank god there's a healthy baby here. this is -- >> herman, please answer the question. >> this is an aunt who has had this baby on many occasions in the past. the baby's slept there. >> put herman on the screen. not a locked wooden chest. >> nothing more than a family member taking a child for a period of time. they got it wrong. baker is a hero. >> really. >> yeah.
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>> let me ask you this, sherman, where does the 911 call from mommy fit in. >> i'm not so sure she's a hero. these are wacky people, simple as that. >> that's your defense. you are going to stand in front of a jury and say, they're whacky. >> all prosecuted based upon the result. thank god that nobody got killed or nobody's dying here. >> you know what -- >> okay. >> -- b.s. and i am holding my tongue, all right? don't start trying to tell me there's not a prosecution because the baby happened to live. you know what, that is thanks to god. this is definitely a miracle. but huh-uh. no, no, no. they can be forgiven while they are behind bars. but what i want to figure out now the grandmother is with me. kandis boyer has driven nearly 900 miles to get to her baby granddaughter. ms. boyer, you just told me that your daughter, baby shannon's mother, has said, "so many different things." like, what? what she saying? >> for one that she didn't know where her child was.
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for two that she did not harm her child. and the stories were always different. she's very confused. very confused. and you know, but we're going to stand behind my daughter. i love my daughter deeply and we're behind her 100%, no matter what she has to go through. >> right. well, she is very, very lucky to have you for a mother, ms. boyer. but i don't see how those stories are different. what does she say in one story that was different from another story? >> well, for instance, she took the baby out for a walk at one time, went for a walk, came back, didn't have the baby. another story, 30 seconds later would be i went for a walk at this time and came back and put the baby to bed, woke up, she was gone. just so many different stories that -- it's unbelievable how confused my daughter is. >> go ahead, mrs. boyer.
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>> but she has always, she's always had this confusion, mentally confusion problem. she's always -- she's been numerous counseling over the years. she needs help and she's going to get the help she needs now. >> ms. boyer, is the man on the birth certificate actually the biological father? because we've been told he's not. >> i do not know that at all. >> just to get food stamps. >> caller: i do not know that at all. i do not know that at all. >> back to you clark goldband. now those are different stories. what was the story they told police when they made that 911 call? >> well, the mom told law enforcement simply that she went to sleep around 3:00 a.m. woke up around 11:00 a.m. shannon was gone. even though she was sleeping in the same room just feet away. >> okay, pat brown, you're the criminal profiler. mommy manipulated?
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>> might have been manipulated but i'm also seeing pathological lying. it's not a matter of confusion it's the problem, you try one story and you get that, that doesn't sound too good and you change your story. i think that she went with the haleigh cummings story because it worked for them so she's thinking this will work to me. >> to bethany marshall. psychoanalyst. author of "deal breakers." joining us out of l.a. i'm not buying it. >> no. >> this grandmother is standing behind her daughter and i appreciate that but i do not believe what the girl is saying because she's told so many different stories and the story she told police is completely -- a completely third edition. now we're hearing she wanted to get rid of the baby so she gave the baby away. >> i think this baby's mother has a long history of acting confused to her own mother in order to avoid responsibility for what she's really done. and in this case what she did, she gave her own baby away. she had no maternal extinct as marc klaas said towards her own child. i think she allowed herself to be manipulated by the other woman who resented the
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intrusion. >> wait, i've got to take issue with that. >> yes. >> you don't allow yourself to be manipulated. if you're allowing yourself to be manipulated, you're not manipulated. you're going along with a scheme. and bottom line, this baby nearly died, stuffed into what looks to be a wooden coffin hidden up underneath a bed, draped with material, covered up so police can't find it. this was not a matter of giving the child away to be adopted or else they would have not lied to police and put the baby in what looks to be a coffin. out to the lines. celiste in texas. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> what's your question, dear? >> caller: i watch your show all of the time and i appreciate what you do and god bless the men who found that baby but one of the questions that's been answered about the baby's abuse, but you look in that baby's eyes and you can tell that it's not a happy baby. a happy baby has happy eyes and this baby does not have happy eyes. >> good question. dr. cartwright, you've looked at
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the baby via film. how does the baby look to you, quickly? >> well, it certainly looks somewhat healthy but i would counter the argument that this child is really healthy. the child looks malnourished. the child has a large head compared to the rest the child which would indicate a lack of nutrition. and i would agree with the caller. i think that the child's eyes don't look that great. >> we'll be right back with dr. cartwright taking your calls. but tonight, our family album. here are photos of the twins. lucy and john david. this is immediately after their birth. and i do not believe that they would be turning 2 this week if not without your prayers. and in connecticut, here's vicky and 2-year-old daughter eva dressed as a tiger for halloween. texas friends. high schoolteacher shelly and teen daughters margaret and macy. cheerleaders. a beautiful wedding photo of georgia friends chris and robin.
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looking on, krn kentucky friends of the show. linda, brian, kayla, michael and friends, jazzy and rooster. they never miss a show.
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we have recovered 11 victims. we have recovered 10 bodies and one partial skeleton from the imperial avenue address. one autopsy is still being completed at this time, but they are all african-american women. seven died of ligature strangulation, one died of manual strangulation, two, the decomposition of the body precludes accuracy, and we're diagnosing that as homicidal violence in two cases. the last case, the autopsy is ongoing. it does not appear to have a ligature and will undoubtedly be a case of manual strangulation or homicidal violence.
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so that's 11 victims. 6 r six inside the house and five recovered from the house. >> we did not search the walls or floors in that structure this afternoon. that's not to say we might not go back there tomorrow. that the point i have to believe they're going to go back to the house tomorrow and dig a little deeper because of the skull and we need to find where the rest of the bodies are out. >> straight out to dan hagerty. i understand that police now think that 14 more missing women may be dead at the hands of former marine sowell. >> right now we know from his house in cleveland, it's 11 bodies. we keep saying 11 bodies, it's 10 bodies and one skull. so there's something more to be found here. police are back at the house tonight, they'll be back there tomorrow. they have the fire department with them, cadaver dogs, they're
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knocking down the walls, looking for anything they can find. but sit a very long road for them, especially now that they're naming a third victim who has been identified, tashauna culvert, who lived on the same street that anthony sowell lived and was never reported missing at all. this is 45 minutes ago, and we talked to her four kids, she has four children. she's been missing for a year. they thought she was with her boyfriend down in akron. never reported her missing, and in fact, the police notified them. >> to stacey neumann our producer on the story, what more can you tell me about the story? >> let me tell you about the other victim they have identified today. her name is 31-year-old telasha fortson. she is from east cleveland and to make a positive i.d. on her,
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cops had to take dna from one of her small children. >> so she leaves small children behind. speaking of the victims. 11 lady victims that we know of so far. the excavation, the tearing down, literally tearing down the walls of this home set to start looking for more dead ladies. there's the possibility tonight that 14 more women may be dead at the hands of former marine anthony sowell. that would raise the tally to 25 dead women. with me right now very special guests, joining us at their family home, barbara carmichael, the mother of victim tonia carmichael and also with her donnita carmichael, her daughter. and also joining us debra williams, she's the aunt of victim telacia fortson, her body
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identified today. first, to barbara carmichael, the mother of murdered victim tonia carmichael. and as they are speaking, rosie, i would like you to show those beautiful photos we have of tonia carmichael. look at that smile. look at her. to her mother, barbara carmichael. ms. carmichael, thank you for being with us. when did you learn your daughter was one of the victims, allegedly, of anthony sowell? >> tuesday. and thank you for having us. it was tuesday afternoon. >> wednesday -- >> was it wednesdaysome >> uh-huh. >> the days are melting together here lately. >> you know, ms. carmichael -- >> wednesday afternoon. >> -- i know how that feels. when the days just all -- time just seems to stop.
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and everything starts blending together. >> right. >> ms. carmichael -- >> exactly. >> -- would you tell me about your little girl. would you please tell me about her. what was she like growing up? >> she's always been a beautiful person to me, of course. very lively. very active. very fun-loving, outgoing and friendly. i used to tell her, don't be so friendly to people that you don't know, but this is the way she was. growing up, i had to kind of watch her, keep tight reins on her like you do most children but she grew up to be a lovely adult. she had three children who she dearly loved, devoted her life to caring for by herself. >> really? >> she was a medical secretary. yes. >> she brought them up on her own? >> by herself.
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>> and she had -- >> no husband. >> and i believe two girls and a boy, right? >> right. the oldest girl is 37. middle girl is 32. her son is 24. >> and with us tonight is donnita carmichael, this is tonia, one of her daughters. donnita, if you could, could you tell me one of your most vivid memories of your mother in life? >> the most vivid thing, wow. there's so many, it's hard to pick one. but i will just say when she says, clean the dishes, clean the dishes. >> you know what, i'm just thinking about my little girl lucy and my little boy and how she must feel, even though you're all grown up, looking down on you from heaven and realizing you're going to have
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to go on without your mother. with me right now, deborah williams. she's the aunt of victim telacia. her body identified today. when did you learn that your niece is allegedly one of her many, many victims? >> today about 1:00 or 1:30. it was very hard. we have to keep going and constantly pray for other families and stay strong for the children. she had three small children. >> how old are the children? >> the oldest is 6 and the other is 4 1/2 and the other 1 is 2 1/2.
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the tearful tell all about the chris brown attack and the stripper who claims she had an affair with fergie's husband. carrie pregenealogy in a sex tape scandal? coming up next. >> straight out to former nypd, bill, i imagine that many if not all of those 14 women police are talking about will be connected to sowell. >> that's true and only be connected hopefully by dna evidence.
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also the possibility that they will be doing forensic work on computers that may have obtained from his home that will then be able to tie the victims to sowell. this is primarily what they are going to be doing. as a result of the dna evidence that they may be able to have and further they may be able to build quite a case against the monster. >> you are right, bill. a lot of these women are skeletonized. we know one of the bodies is nothing but a skull. from just the skull, how can they make an identification? >> if you can get ahold of dental records, that would help to identify the person. also there is dna to be found even in any tissue really. it may be something where they can get dna even though it's just bone. parra are i should have thought of that. the dental records and how
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they're already making identifications. i want to quickly go back to barbara and danita car michael. what are cops telling you about this case? about sowell? >> that's just it, nancy. we have not spoken to any police officials from cleveland at this time. >> really? i will try to get in touch with them for you tonight. >> thank you. thank you. >> everyone, let's stop -- and remember army private first class richard langen bruner awarded the campaign army commendation medal and groebl terrorism medal. a big heart and loved outdoors and hunting and making others smile. leaves behind his parents, sisters and grandfather.
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american hero. thanks to our guests, but especially to you. happy birthday to one of our superstars, samantha. she is turning 23. you are getting on up there, samantha. happy birthday, dear. see you tomorrow night 8:00 sharp eastern, until then, good night, friend. >> this is a "showbiz tonight" news break. here's what's coming up at the top of the hour. rihanna's tearful tell all about being beaten by chris brown. caught on camera, the stripper at the center of the fergie controversy speaks out to explosive claims that josh cheated on fergie with her.
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tv's most provocative entertainment news show starts at the 207 of the hour here on hln.
10:59 pm

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