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tv   U.S. House of Representatives  CSPAN  November 11, 2009 5:00pm-8:00pm EST

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right now, a frantic search for a 5-year-old girl reported missing from her home in fayetteville, north carolina yesterday morning. police are searching on the ground, by air and suspect foul play. and they don't buy mom's story here. we want to know what happened to little shaniaya. plus revise ting a tragedy, on so many fronts. cell phone video obtained by -- the cop who ordered the taser to be used ended up committing suicide days later now his wife is suing the police department
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saying nypd did not stand by this 21-year veteran. i'll talk to his widow and hear her heartbreaking story. call in, the number is 1-877-tell-hln. you can e-mail us at c cnn/primenews. your chance to be heard. welcome this is "prime news." we want to know where is little shaniaya davis, police in north carolina say the 5-year-old reported missing yet morning is in extreme danger. here's the timeline as we know it. 5:30 in the morning mom said she put her on the couch. noticed her missing about an hour or so later. cops saying not so fast here the circumstances surrounding the disappearance really not adding up. first red flag, not the fers time cops have been called to this home this year. narcotics agents raided the mobile home in july, found drugs in the home and also have been reports of domestic and custody
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problems, as well. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about this welcome back john lucich, former criminal investigators and michelle segona, investigative journalist. police suspect foul play obviously. what else can you tell us at this point? >> i can tell you earlier today, mike, i had an extensive conversation by the name of barbara davenport the manager of the mobile home park and oversees 98 trailers within that particular community also a former investigator with the sheriff's department in the area. so, she is familiar with this family. what she tells me is that over the summer, shaniya's mother and brother put in an application for a trailer but were denied. she has a sister at the same time put in another application for her and her son but brenda's application was accepted. she and her family move into
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this particular moem and a surprise announcements to barbara she finds out anoinette and her boyfriend and all were living in this mobile home. skid if someone were to come inside the house in the middle of the night or say 5:30 in the morning to possibly maybe take her out of the residence would someone hear that? she said absolutely. there's no way anyone else could get through that trailer in the morning, middle of the night, any other time without someone else knowing. having said that also in that community barbara installed four surveillance cameras throughout. and barbara says that after shaniya was missing you can see on the surveillance tape the family coming out and actually looking around as if they are looking for a child at that point. >> do the surveillance show anybody leaving prior to the family walking outside? >> well, there are -- there is some suspicious activity and investigators do have that particular hard drive right now and are combing through every
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minute. they are putting names and with faces and also some reports out there barbara says of three sexual registered sex offenders that live within the communities and says that is not true she checks everyone's background and there are only two. i actually checked all of the systems online and found two, also, for that particular area. >> okay. john lucich, that videotape michelle is talking about could be gold here in this investigation, right? >> absolutely. it's only going to come back to how much of video they have. some of the cheaper systems will actually loop every four hours or eight hours. so, if it's been looping over itself and got rid of the important stuff the cops might have seen that will hurt them. however a computer forensics on that hard drive may be able to bring that back. so that's going to be a big crucial part especially since the dogs didn't hit on any little girl walking outside. >> okay. let's hit on a couple of points, clock is ticking on us,
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michelle. what's mom slaying did she fall asleep after she put her on the couch? >> something investigators are piecing together right now. she reported her missing an hour after she says she found her gone. investigators arrived on the scene alittle after 7:00 in the morning an met with barbara around 7:33 in the morning. >> who else was there. >> the mother, the aunt, one of brenda's sons, shaniya's brother and an infant but barbara, the manager says she doesn't know where the infant came from because none of the women appeared to be pregnant back in july. they did not move in until august 5th 2009 according to her records. >> john, you've got a full husband and those are your best folks it talk to right. >> absolutely. the more people we have the more are potential witnesses or suspects and they are going to start with everyone who lived in the house. when you take a look at zoning laws, they may allow you renting -- disallow you renting out but when it talks to family
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a lot of people can live there. as long as there was relation there should be no problem but all those people are potential witnesses ang/or suspects. >> couple other things, michelle, drug raid on the home in july. what details do we know about that. >> i reached out to investigators today but because of the federal holiday they are understaff sod the ones they have out there are working hard and have not been able to return my phone call as of yet and i reached out to the department of social services, as well, because there are reports out there in the media they have come out there to visit the family's home a lot. you have to keep in mind if this family moved in august 5th, 2009, this report of this particular house, you know, a raid going on was for july 2009. barbara says that is absolutely not true. and if anyone had any past convictions or anything like that on their record she would not accept their application so i looked back on the system on some of the public systems and what it told me was she lived in
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a couple other areas and notices were served. as soon as i can figure out exactly what home the search warrant they went, into we can put that -- we can piece that together sga a lot of investigators to sift through possible drug raid, shish yous with department of social services, couple of sex offenders living in the area. we'll keep on this. reappreciate it. coming up a teen, we'll hear from a teen who witnessed the high school gang rape, richmond, california. remember the story? 15-year-old girl raped and assaulted for more than two hours. we are going to hear first-hand accounts coming up.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln.
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witnesses of that brutal gang rape of a 15-year-old finally coming forward still the question to them, why didn't they call 911? we'll hear that answer coming up. remember the story, police in richmond, california say as many as 10 people attacked this poor girl again 15 years old and they attacked her, raped her for more than two hours. this is as a homecoming dance is going on. they took turns raping her, 20 other people just stood by and watched. some even took pictures on their cell phones. again, we wonder how can -- not one person call 911, even anonymously even if afraid? this girl was left stripped naked, beaten, let's get more on this and more of the witness accounts joining us cecili cecilia vega from our "time" news affiliate. >> reporter: one of the 208 bystanders police say watched and did nothing as a 16-year-old girl was brutally gang raped outside her homecoming dance, the first time a witness to that
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horrific attack has spoken publicly. why didn't you call the police? >> i didn't have a phone and i just, i don't know, it was a lot of people there. there were some people there that, i don't know, i just didn't want to say anything because i was scared. >> also scared by what he saw that night -- >> i people like dehumanize it. i saw some pretty crazy stuff >> police arrested him as a possible suspect after the attack but he was released for lack of evidence. the 21-year-old says he tried to help the victim after the attack ended. >> she was by herself. she was naked and like i tried to help her. i was like, oh, i reached for her and she started screaming and i said, hey, i don't want to hurt you, i just want to help, that's all i want to do is just help you so she stopped screaming as if she chew i wasn't trying to do nothing then i grabbed my t-shirt and i covered her up with it. >> he was skateboarding outside the school. when he got closer, he realized what was going on. >> they were kicking her in her
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head and like beating her up and robbing her and ripping her clothes off and just it's something you can't get out your mind. >> reporter: police say the rape went on two and a half hours and as many as ten people may have participated. he is friends with one of the suspects in custody. he says he tried to stop the attackers from taking pictures of the girl and now fears for his life for being labeled a snitch. >> i just see like everybody going crazy and messing with her i was like, hey, man, calm down, that's a little girl you don't do nothing like that. i've got two 15-year-old sisters myself. >> reporter: the witness says he watched for 15 to 20 minutes. not even his own family knows he was there that night. >> i feel like i could have done something but i don't feel like i have any responsibility for anything that happened. >> all right. want to let everyone know this neither cnn nor the richmond police department has verified rodriguez's account of his actions at the scene. again the 21-year-old we saw on camera. the other one was anonymous witness. the richmond police department
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says this is obviously still under investigation. i want to bring in our experts and we'll take your calls, by the way, fenz foenz's t-- 1-877-tell-hln's the number. brf henry, let's, from what the two we heard from -- start with the 21-year-old, is he in the clear or now object number one for investigators still trying to get information. >> well, certainly, at this point as we speak right now he is in the clear although the police and d.a.'s office are awaiting the results of any dna tests to see if he is, indeed, in the clear. as you may have heard he is saying, yes, i put my shirt over her to protect her since she was naked perhaps a good explanation for dna found on her but for now is in the clear. >> did he say why he's coming forward now and why that other anonymous witness is now speaking? >> well, in a sense perhaps it's
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probably conveniently he hopes to clear his name number one and number two if he is truly innocent why wouldn't he want to come forward? he says he is also branded, however, as a snitch so why he's coming forward now remains to be seen. >> with that fear looming. let's bring in michelle. why do you think we're hearing from people now? is it conscience? >> it can be, yes. i mean, i think at this point what we're seeing is that the outrage that we are experiencing as a country that people would stand by and watch this, that they're starting to realize how unacceptable it is. >> yeah. exactly. and, john, the two that we heard if you are an investigator, are you at their door every day trying to get more information out of them or do you think that's already been done? >> no, i think it's going to continue, no doubt about it but let me point out one thing no matter what these guys say they may have not committed a crime but i found it dpikable the guy sat there for 15 or 20 minutes and couldn't go someplace and make a phone call, drop a dime
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and get this woman help but willing to put a t-shirt over here, that doesn't make sense. >> were we come back we'll talk with michelle about that the anonymous witness who feels no responsibility and watched for 15 or 20 minutes and we'll take your calls, as well. 1-877-tell-h 1-877-tell-hln.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln continuing our coverage of the gang rape richmond, california, 15-year-old brutalized for over two hours.
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this is while a homecoming dance is going on. we hear now people coming forward claiming to be witnesses arriving on the scene as things are wrapping up. and the witness that we heard from who remained anonymous just moments ago michelle golland talked about not being responsible for admitting to watching for 15 or 20 minutes but yet feeling no responsibility. how is that? >> it -- it's, it is such a huge problem in our society and we need to, as parents, as community, develop a moral compass in our children. and i think we need to really look to the parents, as well as the school institutions, to have programs that start early. you know, there are a lot of wonderful programs that are developed to help students not just academically but emotional development. it is imperative that we do that. >> yeah. and, you know, that kind of undoes somewhat of the message we've been giving our kids,
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michelle that, is take care of number one, a me-first world. it's like, you know, yeah, certainly you want to be the best you can be but also in the midst of that let's help those in need especially a 15-year-old being brutalized. >> oh, yeah. i mean, we need to, as a nation, have these sorts of situations be examples of exactly what you don't do. parents should be sitting down and discussing this with their -- with their teenagers. and schools should be having, you know, meetings about these sorts of things and what to do and how to respond appropriately and ethically and morally to someone who is in need. >> yeah, exactly. john lucich, former criminal investigator, back to your point, i mean, come on, you -- can't you get it a phone, the one witness we heard from, 15 or 20 minutes, even if you don't have the cell phone on you? >> yeah. >> walk away. make the anonymous call. nobody would have known anything you saw anything right. >> walk up to a teacher in the
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gym. >> go ahead, john. >> sorry. >> absolutely, mike. i totally agree with you. this kind of stuff can't be taught. this is common human decency towards another human being and they lacked it totally, absolutely. >> let's get michelle you did have another comment on that real quick. >> well, i think -- i understand the frustration and outrage and at this point especially the men who are adults, i mean they need to be prosecuted to the fullest but i think we have a responsibility with the violence that is in our culture to teach our children and to help them understand what means to be kind and considerate and compassionate and that needs to be important. >> exactly. back to henry lee before we let you go, anything new in the investigation, where do we stand on that front? >> all six suspects were in court yesterday mike and will be back in court court december 1st, the defense has been given hundreds and hundreds of pages of discovery or evidence in the case. the defense has a long ways to go to delve through that before
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they allow their clients to enter standard not guilty place. >> one more real quick, henry, how's the school recovering from this? a few weeks now. what do we know that's going on there? >> they are still banding together, mike, saying we are not standing for this, with a lot of new security things in place and very upset what they are seeing. >> okay. thanks, everyone. we appreciate it. coming up we'll hear from a soldier who came face to face with the ft. hood shooter. >> we heard the shooter continue to move to the opposite side of the building, as he continued to fire. very, very quick reloader on that weapon. it was very swift, very tactical with what he was doing. >> we are going to hear more from this brave soldier and his struggle for survival as he tried to get out of the way of the ft. hood gunman. y8
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. all right, this one got our attention. plantation history lesson group of fifth graders go on a field trip to one. guess who is protected to portray slaves three african-american kids. i know what you are thinking, there's more to the story and the executive direct sdofr at the plantation will join us to explain. a lot to this story. we'll take your calls on it at 1-877-tell-hln. now, this next story it's tragedy on so many levels. here's where it begins a little over a year ago a mentally ill man on a roof ledge like situation in brooklyn, about eight, then feet up, naked, has mental issues, flailing at cops
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you can see this is cell phone video a fluorescent lamp caught on tape. the clip from the "new york daily news" one police officer ordered another get him under control, taser him. when that happened he fell head first about ten feet to his death. lieutenant michael piggette ordered the tasing, so distraught he went to his unit's headquarters and shot himself on his 46th birthday leaving behind a wife and three children. his wife is suing the police department claiming they smeared his reputation and instead of backing him threw him to the wolves. here to talk with us his widow and the family's attorney. susan, again, our condolences. it's been over a year but i'm sure that wound is still fresh and deep so we thank you for taking time. let's get everybody up to speed, susan. after that incident we showed a brief snippet of there. what happened with your husband in the days that followed?
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>> since they had taken his gun, his badge, he felt that -- and put him on a desk job not in the emergency service unit any longer, he felt like he was no longer a police officer serving and protecting the city of new york. >> did he get a chance -- >> he was very upset. >> did he get a chance to tell his story? i mean, did they pull him aside. >> no. >> and say, hey, michael, what happened here? . >> no. he never got a chance to tell his story, at all. never, ever. >> was he going to have a chance at some point in. >> no, not that i know of. >> so -- >> not that i know of. he was not going to have a chance to tell his story. >> how did the police department smear your husband after this in the days after that? because there was a lot of people up in arms about this as the cell phone video came out. what stance did the police department take? >> they told him that he could be prosecuted, you know, good to
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jail. they -- they just, they took away his -- his badge and his gun, that was his life. he was dedicated to his job to serve and protect. >> may i amplify on her answer? >> yeah, go ahead, rodney. >> basically what happened is is they were there for 22 minutes before this man was tasered, as you know. >> right. >> and this tasering was something that occurred to protect other police officers. it was not done maliciously. it was done because this man was waving a light bulb he could have stuck in someone's eye and, you know, into the guy's brain or stabbed him somewhere else and he went to protect his men and that's why he ordered the tasering because initially during the first 20 minutes of this incident, the man did not have a weapon. but, when he climbed onto the roof of that roll-down canopy, all of a sudden he pulls up the
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light bulb and the rules changed because now he was a threat to everyone. you have to understand he was yelling to everybody i'm going to die and i'm going to kill all of you. i'm going to take you all with me and i'm going to kill all of you and he was rantsing and really incoherent and it was a frightening situation and he ordered the tasering. >> right. >> now, before the police did anything that night they brought in and spoke to every officer that was there at the scene except for mr. pigott and the person who he ordered to taser, another officer named nicholas markesona. they knew he acted without mall louse. they knew he acted to protect his men. they knew that this was done in a way as a last-minute decision and, yet, they took away his badge, they took away his gun, they gave him a desk job in -- in the motor pool which is a huge demotion for someone of his stature. they told him he might be prosecuted criminally.
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they told him he might be prosecuted civilly and that the city possibly would not pick up his defense. and then they got on the news on all the tv shows and everything and said he screwed up, he made a mistake, he was wrong, we changed the guidelines, you're not to suppose to fire the taser from heights. well, that's true. you're not supposed to fire it from heights when possible. but, when the rules of the game changed here, when this guy started to swing this light bulb at the police officers and could have hurt the police officers and hurt himself, then he did what he was trained to do. >> okay. >> which was to fire -- i mean, to fire the taser to immobilize the man. >> we reached out to the new york police department. excuse me. we've received no comment. what you're talking about is in the suicide note and the part i'll read here just as -- in the midst of the suicide note says i was trying to protect my guys that day.
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susan, i know it's difficult but it just seemed like michael had so much to live for. leaving you and three children behind. what do you think got to him to this degree where he wasn't going to stand and fight and tell his story at some point? >> when they wouldn't listen to his story and they took his gun and his badge and just said you're taking this desk job, they basically ripped his heart out. they just threw him under the bus and said you're done. you'll be there until you retire. you're no longer a police officer. you won't be back in the emergency service units and he didn't do anything wrong. >> your husband was with the force how long, 21 years, is that correct? >> yes. yes. >> ever any trouble or was he a model police officer? >> no, he was -- he was a dedicated, respected police officer, who loved his job and wanted to serve and protect the city of new york. >> and who had received over 20 awards for meritorious service
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and excellent conduct. >> okay. well, susan thank you again. again our condolences for your loss, rodney, thank you for your time, as well as we continue to talk about this and whether or not the new york police department stood by one of their own and how much their actions may have led to this ultimate suicide tragedy. we'll have more on this coming up.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our coverage a heart-wrenching story that happened just over a year ago beginning with a mentally ill man who climbs up on like an awning, roof, maybe 8, 10 feet off the ground. this is cell phone video obtained from the "new york post" this man is naked, he's rant and raving he's got a flur res sent light bulb so police officers tried to calm him down and lieutenant michael pigott finally order this man be tasered. when he was tasered he fell off that awning, head fitter to the cement and died. lieutenant pigott was so distraught over this, did not feel that the police department was standing by him, thought he was going to lose his job. we have the suicide note we'll read and ended up taking his own life on his 46th birthday leaving a wife and three kids behind. we're talking about, this let's bring in john lucich former criminal investigator. as you look at this, and we just
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heard from his widow and the family's attorney there, do you think the police department acted unfairly, they didn't stand by him. >> when you take a look at this incident, take a look at him, a highly decorated officer nypd heading up esu, the actions he took that day. >> what's esu, by the. >> what emergency services unit. >> okay. >> the actions he took that day he hoped would be non-lethal. he didn't use a gun by a taser. say he broke a policy, going forward that's not criminal, okay. he ended up dead, yes, because he fell off the thing which i think the lieutenant wasn't anticipating would happen there were no criminal actions by this guy who has probably seen so much action i don't believe he took his life because of what happened here. someone had to push this guy over the edge. you know, when internal affairs takes a look at an investigation it's their job to investigate not to beat you up and intimidate you with what could potentially happen to you. >> well, we want to say this again, we tried to contact new york police department not getting comment as this unfolds. i mean, is that what you are
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saying in a case like this, those who investigate their own could be pretty tough on them. >> oh, yeah, absolutely. and depending upon what they did could have pushed this guy over. now, remember, i'm only going by what's been reported and everything is not out there a lot of things these guys know we don't know but this guy has seen so much acts in the 21 years, i cannot believe in my heart that this one incidents where the guy died as a result of him breaking a policy caused him to commit suicide. someone had to push this guy over the edge and make him believe it was a losing situation for him and his family going forward. >> okay. we have a call kiva with us from kansas. your thoughts here? >> caller: i think he was being a coward. i mean, how can the wife sue the police station from a situation that her husband done? many times where i live tasing it can kill you. i mean, he just made a bad decision and his wife should just deal with it. i mean, he still had a job and
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could still be there he was just being a coward. >> a question for the lawyer in the sense of what legal basis how are you going to prove the actions of 9 police department or their lack of support, i believe where they are going. john you want to address that? >> real quick. this guy was on the front lines. this guy was not a coward. he's a new york city police officer who's a hero in many places and again, his actions were not criminal, from what we see and what's been reported. if they say he broke a policy, that's not criminal actions and this guy was long from a coward. he was a hero. >> yeah. >> bad decision, hindsight is always 20/20. >> yeah. the -- as you look at this and there was outrage at the time, do you think public opinion was taken into account too much here? >> i think that political correctness with brass could absolutely bring pressure down because the first thing they are going to do get a whole bunch of phone calls and that pressure will go right down the chain and land right on top of this guy
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and probably crushed him. >> one more call, greg in from california. your thoughts? >> caller: yeah, hey, mike, thanks for taking my call. >> yeah. >> caller: condolences to the wife and family and kids, the father. what i'm saying this guy probably went through the chain, went to human resources and he seen it coming they were going to turn it back and he's not going to spend all his money he saved in these years to have a defensive lawyer for him they should be paying for and it wasn't criminal like the man was saying. if the new york city police department is known for doing this and this man wasn't going to let that happen to his family so something he did that was right. the guy was up there on the ladder. so what he fell on his noggin, but was going it take some of those officers if the guy didn't do the right thing and they should back him always and god bless the family. this man was a dedicated officer from what i see and it's not right. >> greg, thanks for the call. john, i know one article i read intimated the police department was saying it's a violation of department guidelines to taser
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somebody on an elevated like this situation, he's 8, 10 feet up. true or false on that front up? >> absolutely. so he broke a policy. the last thing on the front lines you are thinking about what are all the guidelines, all the this, all the that. remember, he did not create this situation, he responded to this situation. and he addressed it the best way he could. he made a bad decision, let's say, let's assume that, bad decision, again no crime committed. >> okay. we'll have to leave it there. john, as always thanks forrier expertise. coming up this will get your attention african-american students told to pretend to be slaves bags gathered to use cotton while white classmates washed at a field trip at a plantation and the tour guide said he was trying to be historically correct not politically correct. we'll take your calls on this one, 1-877-tell-hln.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. this story got our attention fifth grade kids in charlotte, north carolina went on a field trip to a plantation the historic plata plantation. here is their website and the tour guide chose three african-american kids to portray slaves. i know what you're thinking, how are they doing this? this could be hurtful to the kids. more facts, the tour guide, african-american himself. the plantation says it has chosen black and white kids to play these roles in the past. that's what we have. we'll get more details here coming up and take your calls, 1-877-tell-hln. joining us to talk about it -- president for the naacp in charlotte and also the founder of your black world dot com and kristin toller at the
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plantation. tell us what happened that day, the circumstances here? >> hi, we had a group of fifth graders from [ inaudible ] elementary at the plantation the day before for the exact same program it's a program called civil war soldier's life. they talk about a war that was fought over the issue of slavery. so, of course, discussing what slavery was like for people as an integral part of the program. the day before the exact same program occurred, the school was happy with it. the second day, the only difference is that on the first day, mr. campbell chose one african-american student and two white students to come up to the front and help with that portion of the program and on the second day he chose three african-american students to help with that portion of the program. >> okay. >> we do this kind of thing all the time. we have helpers come up. and it's just a way for children to have a visual and remember what they learned. for example, when we have period clothing we'll have kids stand
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up and hold clothing from different time periods so kids will see what they would have looked like in the past and that type of sgloong were any of the studen studentsset? so guide, who's african-american himself, again, ian campbell, he just chooses the students at random, black or white. if the student doesn't want to be a part of it, they can say so. were any of these students upset about being chosen? >> no, students can always not be a part of it if they don't want to, of course. no, not that he was aware at the time. >> okay. how long have you been doing this reenactment, so to speak, where you draw students in? >> this specific program? >> yeah. >> we've been doing this program five years. >> ever any complaints? >> not one. >> no. were parents upset when they heard about what had happened and the three african-american students were chosen on day two? >> right, right. well, i think it stems from people not being aware of what
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really happened. you know, the students didn't interact in any kind of role playing scenario. it was nothing like that. they stood up. he talks about the different jobs that slaves would have done on a north carolina plantation in the 1860s, so, you know, that's what he did while they were standing up there. >> so who complained? how did this become news? >> i think the root of this is that when the children were riding home on the school bus, one of the white children said something very ugly to one of the african-american girls who was in the program. >> okay. >> and i think that's where a lot of the hurt came from. >> okay. yeah, from what we gather i believe it was on the bus saying, hey, if we lived back then, you would be my slave. i think that's where obviously we're going to get hurt feelings at that point. >> oh, absolutely. >> kristin, thanks so much. when we come back we'll hear from cojo and boyce and we'll take your phone calls. muhammad
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right now, a frantic search for a 5-year-old girl. she was reported missing from her home in fayetteville, north carolina, yesterday morning. police are searching on the ground, by air. they suspect foul play, not buying mom's story. we have breaking details on this as we still try and figure out what happened to her. plus this, revisiting a tragedy on a number of fronts. take a look at this cell phone video obtained by a local newspaper. a man is naked, mentally ill, ranting and raving on that awning there. police taser him. he falls from the roof and dies. the cop who ordered the taser be used, he commits suicide. now his wife is suing the police
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department, saying the nypd did not stand by this 21-year veteran. i'm going to talk to his widow and hear her heart-breaking story coming up. as always we take your phone calls, 1-877-tell hln. welcome, this is our number two of prime news. this just into us on the search for shania davis. wral in north carolina is reporting police searching for the 5-year-old girl have possibly found her blanket in a neighbor's garbage can. the little girl reported missing yesterday morning, 5:30 a.m. here's the rough timeline we have. mom says she put her on the couch, noticed her missing an hour or so later. according to local media, a neighbor told police she was woken up by noises outside her home at about 3 a.m. saying it sounded like somebody was being beaten. we'll take your calls,
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1-877-tell hln. some disturbing developments we're hearing about. joining us to talk about it, we welcome back special agent in charge don clark and michelle, an investigative journalist. michelle has been on the ground talking to cops investigating this case. michelle, you have a development yourself we talked about. let's get everybody up to speed about surveillance footage that could be key in this case. what do we know? >> there is a woman by the name of barbara davenport. she is a former investigator for the local sheriff's department in that area and she's now the manager of the mobile home park. she works very hard and i quote, she says, i've worked my butt off for six years making that a decent place for everyone and she's also done that by installing surveillance cameras throughout the mobile home park. there are four cameras. let me give you kind of a bird's-eye view, so to speak, as to where the cameras are. one of them is actually facing toward shaniya's resident.
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there's another faces outside and one that has cars that watch that go in and out and there's another overall view of that mobile home park. if you check out my website, i do have an in-depth interview with barbara. also from what she tells me, i just got off the phone with her to confirm this, she ordered an external hard drive for those surveillance tapes and they last for up to 30 days. so investigators are ectocombin through her external hard drive with a fine tooth comb. they're trying to put faces with names and also vehicles with people. not just recently, within the 24 hours that shaniya was missing but days before that as well. >> well, don, that's one of the places you begin is surveillance footage. real quick, michelle, any footage from that time frame, 5:00, 5:30 in the morning? >> yes, there is footage from that particular time of the morning. and you do see from what barbara tells me, you do see the family
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coming outside after the phone call was placed in to police and it's like they are looking around for this child. >> don, what do you make of that? >> well, one thing we know for sure is in all likelihood that this little 5-year-old didn't put her own blanket in that garbage can. >> yep. >> something happened there. you can look at the story and i can understand why they're saying something is wrong with this story. at 5:30 in the morning with other adults in the house and all of a sudden she sees this little girl and then she doesn't see her again. does the name hailey mean anything to you? it's almost a similar type of circumstance. so i agree with the police, it certainly is suspicious there and looks like that they may be on a trail to figuring this one out. >> what you're talking about, one of two disturbing developments we're getting from wral there, the blanket found could be shaniya's and also a neighbor saying she was awoken about three in the morning to the sounds of what it sounded like somebody being beaten. don, obviously as an
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investigator you're all over both of those, right? >> yeah. think about it. the mother says i saw her at 5:30 in the morning and now you've got a witness there that's saying, no, i heard a noise at 3:00 in the morning. so you've got that to deal with. so when the investigators are getting those type of stories that go in totally different directions, mike, they have got to look. where's the place they're going to look? right under their noses where the crime might have started from, inside the house. >> we've got a call. hi, your thoughts here. >> caller: yes. i know that there was 212 sex offenders in that area. >> well, we know that there was two registered sex offenders in that mobile home park. >> well, that's what i mean. >> any question off that? >> is there a way that they -- if any of them knew about it? >> good question. let's go to michelle. michelle, you had confirmed that
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number, two registered sex offenders. have they been talked to? what do we know? >> they have been extremely cooperative with investigators. also barbara says that they are in compliance with all of their sexual offender registries. that they keep to themselves. they're not a nuisance or menace to that particular area and they're not repeat offenders from what we've learned. so at this particular point that angle is sort of ruled out. what investigators are doing right now, they're on the ground and they are searching for clues. so they're working their way from the point where shaniya was missing, from that 12 by 40 trailer that so many people were living inside all the way out. >> don, more disturbing developments as we look into this. social services has been to the home several times. we're not sure of the circumstances but that's another red flag, isn't it. >> from what i understand more than one time they have been there. not only that, you look at the aspect of the drug problem there
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that they had reported that they were having. so who knows, could this kid have been used in some type of drug scheme. somebody taken a bias out against a little kid for something the parents did. all of those things come into play. >> it's so disturbing, all of those developments. when you talk about those facts, a drug raid in july. the list of suspects and shady people that could have been in this cute little girl's life, we'll continue to hope and pray for her. michelle, don, we appreciate it. thanks so much, guys. coming up, another sad one. we're talking about that gang rape, richmond, california. well, now witnesses are coming forward. you're going to hear from one witness who watched this unfold for 15 or 20 minutes and did nothing. .
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welcome back to prime news on hln. witnesses of that brutal gang rape of a 15-year-old are finally coming forward. still a question to them, why didn't they call 911. we'll hear that answer coming up. remember the story, police in richmond, california, say as many as ten people attacked this poor girl. again, 15 years old. they attacked her, raped her for more than two hours. this is as a homecoming dance is going on. they took turns raping her. 20 other people stood by and watched. some even took pictures on their cell phones. again, we wonder how can not one person call 911, even anonymously, even if they're afraid? this girl was left stripped naked, beaten. let's get more on this and more of the witness accounts. joining us, cecilia vega from time news affiliate kgo. >> i really wanted to help her but i just didn't. >> reporter: this is one of the 20 bystanders who police say watched and did nothing as a 16-year-old girl was brutally gang raped outside her
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homecoming dance. it is the first time that a witness to that horrific attack has spoken publicly. >> why didn't you call the police? >> i didn't have a phone. i don't know, there was a lot of people there. there was some people that were there that i just didn't want to say anything because i was scared. >> reporter: salvador rodriguez was also scared by what he saw that night. >> i saw people like dehumanizing. i saw some pretty crazy stuff. >> reporter: police arrested him as a possible suspect after the attack, but he was released for lack of evidence. the 21-year-old says he tried to help the victim after the attack ended. >> she was by herself. she was naked and like i tried to help her. i was like, i reached for her and she started screaming. i say, hey, i don't want to hurt you, i just want to help. that's all i want to do is just help you so she stopped screaming as if she knew i wasn't trying to do nothing. then i grabbed my t-shirt and covered her up with it. >> reporter: he was skateboarding outside richmond high the night of the dance. he saw people drinking. when he got closer, he realized
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what was going on. >> they were kicking her in her head and they were like beating her up and ripping her clothes off and it was something you can't get out of your mind. >> reporter: police say the rape went on for two and a half hours and that as many as ten people may have participated. rodriguez is friends with one of the suspects in custody. he says he tried to stop the attackers from taking pictures of the girl. he now fears for his life for being labeled a snitch. >> i just see like everybody going crazy and messing with her. i was like hey, man, calm down. leave her alone. that's a little girl. you don't do nothing like that. i've got two 15-year-old sisters myself. >> reporter: the witness says he watched for 15 to 20 minutes. not even his own family knows he was there that night. >> i felt i could have done something but i don't feel like i have any responsibility for anything that happened. >> all right. i want to let everyone know this, neither cnn nor the richmond police department has verified rodriguez' account of his actions at the scene. he was the 21-year-old we saw on
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camera. the other was an anonymous witness. the richmond police department says it's obviously still under investigation. i want to bring in our experts. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell hln. we welcome back michelle, our psychologist and contributor. and henry lee and also criminal investigator john lucich. from the two we heard from are, let's start with the 21-year-old. is he in the clear or is he now on number one for investigators to still try and get information? >> certainly at this point as we speak right now, he is in the clear, although police and the d.a.'s office are awaiting the results of any dna test to see if he is indeed in the clear. now, as you may have heard, he's saying that, yes, i put my shirt over her to protect her since she was naked. perhaps a good explanation for any dna found on her. but for now he is in the clear. >> okay. did he say why he's coming forward now and why that other anonymous witness is now speaking?
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>> well in, a sense perhaps it's probably conveniently he hopes to clear his name, number one. number two, if he's truly innocent, why wouldn't he want to come forward. he said he is also being branded as a snitch, so why he's coming forward remains to be seen. >> let's bring in michelle. michelle, why do you think we're hearing from people now? is it conscience? >> it can be, yes. i think at this point what we're seeing is that the outrage that we are experiencing as a country that people would stand by and watch this, that they are starting to realize how unacceptable it is. >> yeah, exactly. john, the two that we heard, if you're an investigator, are you at their door every day trying to get more information out of them or do you think that's already been done? >> absolutely, i think it's going to continue, there's no doubt about it. let me just point out one thing. no matter what these guys say, they may not have committed a crime, but i found it despicable that the guy sat there and said i was there 15 or 20 minutes and couldn't go someplace and make a
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phone call, drop a dime and get this woman help but he's willing to put a t-shirt over her? >> when we come back, we'll talk with michelle about that, the anonymous witness who feels no responsibility and watched for 15 or 20 minutes. we'll take your calls as well. 1-877-tell hln.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. we continue our coverage of that gang rape, richmond, california.
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a 15-year-old brutalized for over two hours. this is while a homecoming dance is going on. we're hearing now, people coming forward claiming to be witnesses arriving on the scene as things are wrapping up. the witness that we heard from who remained anonymous just moments ago, michelle golland, talked about not being responsible, for admitting to watching for 15 or 20 minutes but feeling no responsibility. how is that? >> it is such a huge problem in our society, and we need to as parents, as community develop a moral compass in our children. and i think we need to really look to the parents as well as the school institutions to have programs that start early. you know, there are a lot of wonderful programs that are developed to help students not just academically but emotional development. it is imperative that we do that. >> yeah. you know, that kind of undoes somewhat the message we've been
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giving our kids, that is take care of number one, me-first world. it's like, yeah, certainly you want to be the best you can be, but it's also in the midst of that, let's help those in need, especially a 15-year-old who's being brutalized. >> oh, yeah. i mean we need to as a nation have these sorts of situations be examples of exactly what you don't do. parents should be sitting down and discussing this with their teenagers. and schools should be having, you know, meetings about these sorts of things and what to do and how to respond appropriately and ethically and morally to someone who's in need sglrks john lucich, criminal investigator, back to your point. come on, can't you get to a phone? 15 or 20 minutes, even if you don't have a cell phone on you, walk away, make an anonymous call. >> walk up to a teacher in the
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gym. >> absolutely, mike, a totally agree with you. this kind of stuff can't be taught. this is common human decency toward another human being, and they lacked it totally, absolutely. >> well, let's get -- michelle, did you have another comment on that real quick? >> and i understand the frustration and the outrage and at this point especially the men who were adults. i mean they need to be prosecuted to the fullest. but i think we have a responsibility with the violence that is in our culture to teach our children and to help them understand what it means to be kind and considerate and compassionate and that needs to be important. >> yeah, exactly. let's go back to henry lee. henry, before we let you go, anything new in the investigation? where do we stand on that front? >> all six suspects were in court yesterday and will be back in court december 1st. the defense has been given hundreds and hundreds of pages of discovery or evidence in the case. the defense has a long ways to
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go to delve through that before they allow their clients to enter standard not guilty pleas. >> one more real quick, henry. how is the school recovering from this? it's been a few weeks now. what do we know that's going on there? >> they're still banding together, mike, and saying we are not standing for this. they have a lot of new security things in place so they are still very upset at what they are seeing. >> okay, thanks, everyone. we appreciate it. coming up we'll hear from a soldier who came face-to-face with the ft. hood shooter. >> we heard the shooter continue to move to the opposite side of the building as he continued to fire. very, very quick reloader on that weapon. he was very swift, very tactical with what he was doing. >> we'll hear more from this brave soldier and his struggle for survival as he tried to get out of the way of the ft. hood gunman.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. this one got our attention. plantation history lesson, group of fifth graders go on a field trip to a plantation. guess who gets selected to portray the slaves? three african-american kids. i know what you're thinking. there's more to the story, and the executive director at the plantation will join us to explain. a lot to this story. we'll take your calls at 1-877-tell hln. now this next story is a tragedy on so many levels. here's where it began. a little over a year ago you have a mentally ill man. he was on a roof ledge-like situation in brooklyn, about eight, ten feet up. he's naked, mental issues, flailing at cops. you can see it here.
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this is cell phone video, a fluorescent lamp caught on tape. the clip coming to us from "the new york daily news." one police officer ordered another get him under control, taser him. when that happened the guy fell head first, about ten feet to his death. lieutenant michael pigott is the man who ordered the tasing. he was so distraught over this he went to his unit's headquarters and shot himself on his 46th birthday leaving behind a wife and three children. his wife is suing the new york police department claiming they smeared his reputation and instead of backing him, they threw him to the wolves. here to talk about it, michael's widow, susan pigott. also with us rodney lepetus, the family attorney. susan, again, our condolences. it's been over a year but i'm sure that wound is still fresh and deep so we thank you for taking time. let's get everybody up to speed, susan. after that incident that we showed a brief snippet of there, what happened with your husband in the days that followed?
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>> since they had taken his gun and his badge, he felt that -- and put him on a desk job, not in the emergency service unit any longer, he felt like he was no longer a police officer serving and protecting the city of new york. >> did he get a chance -- >> he was very upset. >> did he get a chance to tell his story? i mean did they pull him aside and say hey, michael, what happened here? >> no, he never got a chance to tell his story at all. never, ever. >> was he going to have a chance at some point? or when was that going to happen? >> no, not that i know of. not that i know of. he was not going to have a chance to tell his story. >> how did the police department smear your husband in the days after that? there was a lot of people up in arms about this as that cell phone video came out. what stance did the police department take? >> they told him that he could
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be prosecuted, you know, go to jail. they, they just, they took away his badge and his gun. that was his life. he was dedicated to his job, to serve and protect. >> may i amplify on her answer? >> go ahead, rodney. >> basically what happened is they were there for 22 minutes before this man was taserred, as you know. and this taserring occurred to protect other police officers, it was not done maliciously, it was done because this man had a light bulb that he could have stuck into someone's eye, into the guy's brain or stabbed him somewhere else and he went to protect his man. that's why with he ordered the tasering. the first 20 minutes of this incident the man did not have a weapon. but when he climbed onto the roof of that rolled-down canopy,
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all of a sudden he pulls out the light bulb and the rules changed because now he was a threat to everyone. you have to understand he was yelling to everybody "i'm going to die and i'm going to kill all of you. i'm going to take you all with me and kill all of you." and he was ranting and really incoherent and it was a frightening situation and he ordered the tasering. now, before the police did anything, that night they brought in and spoke to every officer that was there at the scene except for mr. pigg ot and the person he ordered to taser, nicholas markesona. they knew he acted without malice. they knew he acted to protect his men. they knew this was done in a way as a last-minute decision and yet they took away his badge, they took away his gun, they gave him a desk job in the motor pool, which is a huge demotion for someone of his stature. they told him he might be
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prosecuted criminally. they told him he might be prosecuted civilly and that the city possibly would not pick up his defense. and then they got on the news on all the tv shows and everything and said he screwed up, he made a mistake, he was wrong. we changed the guidelines, you're not supposed to fire the taser from heights. well, that's true, you're not supposed to fire it from heights when possible. but when the rules of the game changed here, when this guy started to swing this light bulb at the police officers and could have hurt the police officers and hurt himself, then he did what he was trained to do. >> okay. >> which was to fire -- i mean to fire the taser so they could immobilize the man. >> we've reached out to the new york police department and received no comment. what you're talking about is in the suicide notes, the part i'll read here in the midst of the suicide note says i was trying to protect my guys that day. susan, i know it's difficult,
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but it just seemed like michael had so much to live for, leaving you and three children behind. what do you think got to him to this degree where he wasn't going to stand and fight and tell his story at some point? >> when they wouldn't listen to his story and they took his gun and his badge and just said you're taking this desk job. they basically ripped his heart out. they just threw him under the bus and said you're done. you'll be there until you retire. you're no longer a police officer. you won't be back in the emergency service unit. and he didn't do anything wrong. >> your husband was with the force how long? 21 years, is that correct? >> yes. >> ever any trouble? or was he a model police officer? >> no, he was, he was a dedicated, respected police officer who loved his job and wanted to serve and protect the city of new york. >> and who had received over 20 awards for meritorious service
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and excellent conduct. >> okay. well, susan, thank you again. again, our condolences for your loss. rodney, we thank you for your time as well as we continue to talk about this and whether or not the new york police department stood by one of their own and how much their actions may have led to this ultimate suicide tragedy. we'll have more on this coming up.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. continuing our coverage, it's a heart-wrenching story. it happened just over a year ago and it begins with a man who's mentally ill. he climbs up on like an awning, a roof, maybe eight, ten feet off the ground. this is cell phone video obtained from "the new york post." this man is naked, he's ranting and raving. he's got a fluorescent light bulb, so police officers tried to calm him down. and lieutenant michael pigott finally ordered that this man be tasered. well, when he was tasered, he fell off the awning and fell head first to the cement and he died. lieutenant pigott was so distraught over this, did not feel that the police department was standing by him. thought he was going to lose his job. we have the suicide note that we'll read and he ended up taking his own life on his 46th birthday leaving a wife and three kids behind. so we're talking about this. let's bring in john lucich, former criminal investigator. john, as you look at this, and we just heard from his widow and
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the family's attorney there, do you think that the police department acted unfairly? they didn't stand by him? >> well, when you take a look at this incident, let's take a look at him. he's a highly decorated officer at nypd who heads up esu. >> what's esu? >> emergency services unit. >> thank you. >> the actions he took that day he hoped were going to be non-lethal. he didn't use a gun, he used a taser. let's say he broke a policy. going forward, that's not criminal, okay. he ended up dead, yes, but because he fell off the thing which i think the lieutenant wasn't anticipating that would happen. there was no criminal actions by this guy. this guy has probably seen so much action, i don't believe he took his life because of what happened here. someone had to push this guy over the edge. you know, when internal affairs takes a look at an investigation, it's their job to investigate, not to beat you up and intimidate you with what could potentially happen to you. >> we want to say this again, we tried to contact the new york police department and not getting comment as this unfolds. is that what you're saying, in a
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case like this that those who investigate their own can be pretty tough on them? >> absolutely. and depending upon what they did could have pushed this guy over. now, remember i'm only going by what's been reported and everything is not out there. a lot of these things that these guys know that we don't know. but this guy has seen so much action in the 21 years, i cannot believe in my heart that this one incident where the guy died as a result of him breaking a policy is what caused him to commit suicide. someone had to push this guy over the edge and make him believe it was a losing situation for him and his family going forward. >> okay. we have a call. kiva is with us in kansas. your thoughts here? >> caller: i think he was being a coward. i mean how can the wife sue the police station from a situation that her husband done. many times where i live, tasing can kill you. he made a bad decision and his wife should just deal with it. he still had a job, he could still be there, he was just
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being a coward. >> and that's -- this is a question for a lawyer in the sense of what legal basis, how are you going to prove that the actions of the police department or their lack of support i believe is where they're going. john, do you want to address that? >> yeah, just real quick. this guy was on the front lines. this guy was not a coward. he's a new york city police officer who's a hero in many places. and again, his actions were not criminal from what we see and what's been record. if they say he broke a policy, that's not criminal actions and this guy was long from a coward. he was a hero. >> yeah. >> bad decision. hindsight is always 20/20. >> as you look at this, and there was outrage at the time. do you think public opinion was taken into account too much here? >> oh, i think that political correctness with brass could absolutely bring pressure down because the first thing they're going to do is get a whole bunch of phone calls and that pressure is going to go right down the chain and it's going to land right on top of this guy and it probably crushed him.
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>> one more call. let's get greg in in california. greg, your thoughts. >> yeah. hey, mike, thanks for taking my call. >> yeah. >> yeah, condolences to the wife and familiar a and kids. what i'm saying, this guy probably went through the chain, went to human resources, psych service, he seen it coming they were going to turn their back. he's not going to take all the money he's been saving all these years for a defense lawyer and it wasn't criminal like the man was saying. if the new york city police department is known for doing this, this man wasn't going to let that happen to his family for something he did that was right. the guy was up there on the ladder. so what, he fell on his noggin. he was going to take out some of them officers if the guy didn't do the right thing: this man was a dedicated officer from what i see and it's not right. >> greg, thanks for the call. john, one article i read intimated that the police department said that it's a violation of department guidelines to taser somebody
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who's on an elevated -- like this situation, eight, ten feet up. true or false on that front. >> oh, absolutely. so he broke a policy. the last thing when you're on the front lines that you're thinking about are what are all the guidelines. remember, he did not create this situation, he responded to this situation and he addressed it the best way he could. he made a bad decision, let's say. let's assume that. again, no crime committed. >> okay. we're going to have to leave it there. john, as always, thanks for the expertise. coming up, this story will get your attention. african-american students told to pretend to be slaves, wear bags used to gather cotton while their white classmates watched. this happened during a field trip at a plantation. the tour guide says he was trying to be historically correct, not politically correct. we'll take your calls on this one, 1-877-tell hln.
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welcome back to "prime news" on hln. this story got our attention. a group of fifth grade kids in charlotte, north carolina, went on a field trip to a plantation, the historic latta plantation. here's a look at their website. now, the tour guide chose three african-american kids to act as slaves, bear burlap sacks used to pick cotton. i know what you're thinking, how are they doing this, this could be hurtful to these kids. here's more facts of this case. the tour guide is african-american himself. the plantation says that it's chosen black and white kids to play these roles in the past, so that's what we have. we're going to get more details here coming up. we'll take your calls, 1-877-tell hln is the phone number. joining us to talk about i, the president for the naacp in charlotte. also with us boyce watkins, professor syracuse university and founder of yourblackworld.com. also joining us, kristin tolor, executive director at the plantation. kristin, let's start with you.
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tell us what happened that day. what were the circumstances here? >> we had a group of fifth graders from rea view elementary. they were at the plantation the day before for the exact same program. it's a program called "civil war soldier's life." they talk about a war that was fought over the issue of slavery, so of course discussing what slavery was like for people is an integral part of the program. the day before the exact same program occurred. the school was happy with it. the second day the only difference is that on the first day mr. campbell chose one african-american student and two white students to come up to the front and help with that portion of the program. on the second day he chose three african-american students to help with that portion of the program. >> okay. >> we do this kind of thing all the time. we have helpers come up and it's just a way for children to have a visual and remember what they learned. for example, when we have period clothing, we'll have kids stand up and hold clothing from
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different time periods so kids will see what they would have looked like in the past and that type thing. >> were any of the students upset? so the tour guide, who's african-american african-american himself, ian campbell, he chooses the students at random, black or white, and if the student doesn't want to be part of it, they can say so, right? were any of the students upset being chosen? >> no. the students can always not be part of it if they want to, of course. no, not that he was aware at the time. >> okay. so -- and how long have you been doing this re-enactment where you draw students in? >> this specific program? we have been doing this program for five years. >> ever any complaints? >> not one. >> no. were parents upset when they heard about what had happened and three african-american students were chosen day two? >> right. right. well, i think it stems from people not being aware of what really happened.
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you know, the students didn't interact in any kind of role playing scenario. it was nothing like that. they stood up and he talked about the different jobs slaves would have done on a north carolina plantation in the 1860s. so you know, that's what he did while they were standing up there. >> so who complained? how did this become news? >> i think the root of this is that when the children were riding home on the school bus, one of the white children said something very ugly to one of the african-american girls who was in the program, and i think that's where a lot of the hurt came from. >> okay. from what we gather, i believe it was on the bus saying hey, if we lived back then, i'm paraphrasing here, you would be my slave. that's where obviously you will get hurt feelings at that point. >> absolutely. >> thanks so much. when we come back, we will hear from our guests and take your phone calls on this. 1-877-tell hln.
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tonight, a woman mauled by a pet chimpanzee lives to tell her story. she had her face basically ripped off by her friend's chimp. now she has no eyes, no mouth and no nose. today, for the very first time, she shows her face on "oprah." what does she remember from this hellish attack and who does she hold responsible, and is this the ultimate example of why wild animals should not be kept as pets? and the stench of death stronger than ever. earth-shaking developments in the alleged cleveland strangler case. neighbors say the smell has returned with a vengeance. this as cops search the house next to anthony sowell's. police are digging up the yard and carrying out garbage bags full of evidence. could this be yet another
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massive grave site? plus, a mind-blowing custody battle pitting a stripper against a priest. the exotic dancer claims the priest threatened to kill her if she exposed his love child. but the priest says she demanded he have sex with her. now they're fighting for custody of the baby. we'll have all the head-spinning details, including threats of murdering monks, hush money and strip clubs? what? "issues" starts now. tonight, a woman who will never wake up from her horrific nightmare speaks out. charla nash was mauled to within inches of her life last february. that's when the connecticut woman was called to help her friend and employer corral the friend's pet chimp, travis, who was roaming outside the house. the animal then attacked charla, seen her in a photo from the hartford currants website. the chimp went berserk and
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ripped off her eyelids, her face. here's some of the chilling 911 call. >> what a horror. when the cops came, they shot and killed travis the chimp. today, for the first time since the horrific mauling, charla, who has no eyes anymore, appeared on "oprah" with her face covered by a veil. >> i'd like to put across to people that these exotic animals are very dangerous and they shouldn't be around. there's a place for them. >> she said it all right there.
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tonight's big issue is serious stuff. chimps are not pets. in fact, there is a proposed law before the u.s. senate right now that would ban commerce in primates. more on that in just a moment. i'm taking your calls at 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. first, straight out to my truly fantastic expert panel. mark eiglarsh, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor. dr. judy korianski, clinical psychologist and jack hannah, famed animal expert. jack, great to have you here tonight. as we keep the victim of this horrific tragedy in our hearts and in our thoughts, i have to ask you this question, sir. jack, could this have been prevented? >> well, it could have been prevented. i must go back real quickly to 1973 in tennessee, when i had an african lion. i raised lions for zoos and it took an arm off a little boy. i had to get that arm which could not be reattached. i know what wild animals are. i have done this for 40 years from zoo keeper to zoo director.
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chimpanzee is a very complicated animal. they are a mammal, one of the great aps, they're intelligent, they live in a family structure. when someone has a chimpanzee and it ages like this, as you know, the lady came in that worked there with her hair cut, even though she had been there many times before, and this chimp probably felt threatened somewhat with its person there that's taking care of, the female, and went after her. when chimps in the wild go after someone, some of the first things they do are rip off to the other dominant male, to go after the eyes, the hands, even the testicles because they try to incapacitate that male to breed further. a chimpanzee at that age having it in a home is like having a loaded gun, like having a loaded weapon. >> i agree with you. here are some details and perhaps you can comment on this. harold, the woman who kept the chimp as a pet, had speculated that the chimp was trying to protect her and attacked nash, the victim, because she had changed her hair style, was driving a different car and was
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holding a stuffed toy in front of her face in order to get travis' attention. your thoughts on that, jack? >> well, remember what i just said. when the woman, the chimp probably -- chimps are bright, intelligent animals like a lot of animals but when that woman came in in a different appearance, maybe in a different car, this chimp said what is this coming into a place where i live. something's wrong here. so the chimp did probably the natural thing and went after that person. as far as the lawsuits involved -- >> we'll get to that in a second. i think the point is, the tragedy of all this, is that this chimp was actually trying to protect its so-called owner when it's attacked and the owner is really the one who we are asking the question should she have ever had this chimp as a pet. now, her attorney, sandra harold's attorney has declined to comment but we have an open invitation, if you want to come on and tell your side of the story, go ahead. today's big issue, and what we're covering tonight, chimps, they are not pets.
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this woman who insisted on trying to keep this chimp as a pet spoke to nbc's "today" show about this horrific attack. >> and i saw what was going on and i hollered at him, and he was just grabbing her and then i went and got the shovel, and i was trying to, you know, hit him with the shovel to stop it, and it wasn't working. so i went and i had to get a knife. >> you stabbed him? >> i had to. he looked at me like mom, what did you do? >> mom, you're not mom. check out this photo from the website of the hartford currant showing travis in a totally inappropriate situation, getting on and sitting on a lawn mower. some people think this is cute, dr. judy, when it's really tragic and exploitive. travis the chimp lived with sandra harold for 14 years, five years before the attack, sandra's husband died. also her only daughter died in a traffic accident. so some say that sandra turned
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to travis the chimp for companionship. is the bottom line here, dr. judy, that people have to realize that primates cannot be used as replacements for people in normal human social interaction? >> seeing the travis the chimp on that machine is what we call anthropomorphiizing, making the manl like a person. it is true. you know this, being an animal lover and having three dogs yourself, people form that's called the human/animal companion bond. it's very strong and people often research shows use the pet even more than a friend because the pets don't talk back, because they love you constantly. so this is positive for many people, for many types of pets, but other types of pets, it's not appropriate as we heard from jack. >> these are not pets. you might call them pets but they ain't pets at the end of the day. this attack happened on february 16th when sandra harold, the woman who kept the chimp as a pet, trying to,
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anyway, reportedly asked her friend and employee to help lure the animal back into her house. here's the victim on "oprah." >> was it your job to help take care of him, because this was your boss? >> no, it was her pet that she wanted, or companion, and she had to rush out a few times. it was only a few times i fed him. >> so you were familiar with him. were you afraid of him? >> yeah. always. >> now, mark eiglarsh, the victim's family has filed a $50 million lawsuit against sandra harold, charging she was negligent for lacking the ability to control a wild animal with violent propensities but harold's attorneys argue the victim was an employee of hers and therefore, hey, this is a workers' comp case. of course, that would vastly limit the amount of money that the victim could get. workers' comp? are you kidding me? >> jane, i've got one word for those being sued in this case. settle. this is not a victim that you
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want to put in front of a jury. they would hold tarzan responsible if they could. she's a compelling victim. the injury is there. was it reasonably foreseeable is the question. would a -- you don't need the great animal expert jack hannah to tell you that that is not a pet. i think jurors would tag the defendants for a lot of money in this case. >> just because you have a pet doesn't mean you have the animal's best interest at heart. as babies, these primates are ripped away from their mothers in the wild or they're also bred in captivity. for every chimp that's kept as a pet, there are untold numbers who are killed or injured, abandoned, neglected. this is a call to action. the humane society of the united states is promoting legislation that would prohibit interstate commerce of primates. it's already passed the house. you can help. by passing the captive primate safety act. call your u.s. senators and tell them to pass this act.
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you know, when it comes to primate exploitation, jack, i always say follow the money. >> right. the primate exploitation has gone down a great deal in the last ten years but you're correct saying this woman who owned the chimp, there's no doubt obviously she thought the chimp was probably hers. as the attorney just said, you don't want this to go to court. my action with the lion was settled and i live with that every day of my life and i was in the business. but going back to the chimpanzee, again, it's a complicated creature and one that as you said, should not be -- however, in this bill, zoological parks, we do a tremendous job in the research and breeding of these magnificent creatures. i don't want that bill to affect what we do in accredited zoos throughout the country. >> we agree to disagree. i agree with the humane society in the sense i think we should pass the captive primate safety act and i'm suggesting people call their u.s. senators. we're not going to agree on everything, jack. but we're delighted to have you
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as a guest. more on this horrific attack in just a bit. we're also taking your calls on this. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. the familiar stench of death once again polluting the streets of cleveland. could cops be closing in on another mass grave? but first, mauled, maimed and disfigured. the woman who survived a horrific chimp attack now showing her face in a manner of speaking, with a veil. why would anyone try to keep a wild animal as a household pet?
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it's a horrible thing, but i'm not a horrible person and he wasn't a horrible chimp. it was a freak thing. >> a freak thing, indeed, but not necessarily in the way she intended that phrase. that clip from nbc's "today" show, they interviewed the woman who kept travis the chimp, trying to keep him as a pet anyway, the day after he went berserk and bludgeoned charla nash to within inches of her life. this is a horrific story. a woman will never be the same again. she's been left without eyes, without a nose. unbelievable. phone lines lighting up. angela, texas, your question or thought, ma'am? >> caller: yes. i had heard early in the days of the reporting of this incident that she had been given-the
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owner had given travis alcohol and possible prozac or some kind of anti-anxiety medication and most those drugs say do not mix with alcohol. >> well, i had heard reports that again, i have obviously no independent confirmation of that. that is something that will be part of the investigation or has been. the attorney for the woman who kept the pet has declined to comment. we invite them on to tell their side but jack hanna, that does happen quite often, doesn't it, where somebody has a wild animal that's not supposed to be a pet, keeps them as a pet, and then they try to sedate them to keep them sort of under control? >> yes, i've heard that, correct. for pets, right. but you know, like you said, who knows how xanax, i think that was the drug they said was used, is going to react on a wild animal like a chimpanzee. some people try to make the chimp part of them, whether it's dressing up, riding lawn mowers, drinking, eating, whatever it might be in their home. that's not what a chimpanzee does, obviously, where they live in the wild. >> i wanted to take exception --
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>> hold on. mark, go ahead, please. >> i need to take exception to her calling this a freak accident. first of all, we know that earlier, in 1996, this particular chimpanzee bit a neighbor's hand. he reported it to police. apparently he claims they didn't do anything. the police say we don't have any record of it. but at least the owner of the chimp was clearly on notice that this could be a potentially dangerous animal so anything that happens after that is on her. >> now -- >> this is also why recapitulation of the ziegfield and roy problem, where their lions who were supposed to be part of the family, turned on the very owner and we missoukno disaster that happened to one of them. >> these are wild animals. these are not pets. they're not performers, either. check out this clip from a show called "my monkey baby" on tlc. that would be the very same network of "jon and kate plus
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eight." check this out. >> she's my baby girl. if i hear somebody called her a monkey, i throw a fit. she is my daughter, 100%. >> why does she wear clothes? >> just because to make her look more like my daughter. come here. there! now you look so pretty. >> oh, my gosh. unfortunately, society encourages this type of pop culture. that's just one tiny example of how these primates are exploited. recently, a 2-year-old chimp was used in a commercial shoot for an airport. peta, the organization which keeps chimps, says this chimp had a quote, disturbing record of animal care, that this group that took care of that animal had a disturbing record of animal care. the usda says that that same group keeps the primates in dirty, cramped cages. so here's a vicious cycle, isn't
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it, dr. judy, where you have this demand for commercial entertainment involving these animals and then you obviously see that there's exploitation at the heart of it. what happens when the cameras are turned off? >> well, indeed, and as we just saw in that particular case, the woman is considering the little chimp as her child. so while many of these human animal companion bonds are very healthy and i bless them, some are dysfunctional, where people are replacing people and real relationships and children for animals. that is inappropriate. their need to dominate, their need to have something that loves them, makes this wrong kind of relationship. >> jack, we have ten seconds. final thoughts? >> well, final thoughts are as i said before, zoological world gives millions of dollars each year to control the chimp in the wild. got back from malaysia where
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there are 65 baby apes in an orphanage. we are trying to keep them in the wild. as far as the chimps, they should be but in zoological parks, we do a great deal of helping them. >> i also think people should call their senators and say pass this act. it will stop this horror. thank you, jack, for coming on. thank you, fantastic panel. we salute the troops every day on hln. today, robin meade has a special veterans day salute from a proud daughter to her dad. >> thanks, jane. today, we salute world war ii veteran wendell alan fetters. a army staff sergeant during the war and his daughter wants to let us know how proud she is of her dad. >> hi, robin. we want to leave a message for our dad, thanking him for being so brave in world war ii, when he was captured at age 20, and we want to thank him for his contribution to all the freedoms we enjoy in this great country, and we just want to tell him we are so proud of him and that we
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love him. >> absolutely. wendell also served in the korean war and turned 85 just last month. back to you. >> thanks, robin. switching gears, the stench of death returns in cleveland. we'll investigate.
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today, we are honoring our wonderful veterans and military. i personally want to say thank you for all that you've done and continue to do. in our spotlight tonight, we are saluting them for yet another cause they are fighting. we're talking about soldiers coming in contact with hundreds of stray dogs while they're abroad and developing intense bonds with these animals. bonds so strong they have managed to beat the odds and rescue their furry friends. a new military channel show called "no dog left behind" gives us a unique look at their moving experiences. >> you see a hundred dogs a day you want to save.
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nubs was a beacon of joy at the camp. he became our team buddy. >> he was truly a blessing. he came at the right time. >> lava was at times my best friend and my only friend. i said okay, that's it, i've definitely got to get this dog home. >> got to get that pup home. some of the troops have gotten that are dogs home through operation baghdad pups. it's a program designed to help our troops arrange for safe travel for the dogs they befriend in the war zone and then take back to the united states. joining me now, terry crisp, operation baghdad pups program manager. terry, thank you so much. this is so heartwarming. war is so tough and these animals and these humans can come together and help each other. how did this organization happen? >> it all came about from one soldier asking for the help of spca international to get his best friend charlie home. and since then, operation baghdad pups has been successful
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in getting 180 animals back to the u.s. >> this has got to be a lifesaver for these troops. they see so much death and destruction and dogs, all animals, offer unconditional love. >> definitely so. and we see that not only during the time that they're in iraq with these dogs and cats, but after they come home. these animals have provided a tremendous amount of comfort and have really helped these men and women get back in track with life once they're back here in the states. >> a lot of these troops in no dog left behind express deep gratitude for the dogs that they take in. listen to this. this is fascinating. >> we weren't helping the dog. the dog came back to help us. >> they're heroes. over and over again. >> it's basically like leaving one of your buddies behind. no soldier will ever do that. >> i've known from the beginning that we were breaking the rules and i thought boy, if they're willing to take the chance, i'm willing to do it, too.
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>> terry, service members are apparently not allowed to adopt animals so these brave soldiers actually took a risk and kind of broke the rules to get these dogs back. what's that all about? >> according to general order 1a, you cannot befriend an animal while on active duty. but thankfully, these men and women have found it in their hearts to do the right thing and give these animals the kind of life that they deserve here in the u.s. >> well, i hope that law changes, because these animals are really part of the solution. you know, there are those who say the day that we can't kill an animal is the day that war will no longer exist because we as a species will have evolved beyond it. i pray that that is the case. terry, i want to thank you for the amazing work that you do. this is heartwarming. it gives me hope. thank you, terry crisp. >> thanks, jane. switching gears, all too familiar stench of death pouring back into cleveland. this time, neighbors say it's
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stronger than ever.
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the stench of death stronger than ever. earth-shaking developments in the alleged cleveland strangler case. neighbors say the smell has returned with a vengeance. this as cops search the house next to anthony sowell's. could this be yet another massive grave site? plus, a mind-blowing custody battle pits a stripper against a priest over a child. we'll have all the head-spinning details, including claims that this woman demanded the priest have sex with her. the stench of death around the alleged cleveland strangler's home has returned and guess what, it's worse than ever. neighbors of suspect anthony sowell think the smell came back
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because there's a new search for victims right next door to sowell's house of death. one of the neighbors said quote, it's like it got worse. it smells bad in the air like death, end quote. police remove bags of evidence from the home but we don't know what was in them. investigators are even going to use thermal imaging to look for bodies buried in the yard. police have identified nine of 11 victims found hidden on sole's property. neighbors complained for years about the hideous stench. >> we received a phone call from a resident that said councilman, there's a foul odor that's coming from across the street and it smells like a dead person. not dead meat. not dead animal. dead person. >> this trail of death may not be limited to sowell's house. his neighborhood or even the city of cleveland. get this. investigators are now checking unsolved crimes all over the world for any link to this convicted sex offender.
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since he traveled the world as a marine, sowell allegedly used drugs and alcohol to lure victims inside his house. somehow a few of them managed to get out alive. >> why me. wasn't my time, i suppose. maybe this is why. so i could speak up for them. >> so what's your theory on this case at home? i want to hear from you. give me a call. 1-877-jvm-says. 1-877-586-7297. stralgt straight out to my fantastic panel. judy koriansky, jayne weintraub, there she is, curtis sliwa, founder of the guardian angels and radio reporter ken robinson. i am also very pleased to have with me on the phone inez fortune, mother of one of the victims found inside the house.
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inez, we are going to get to you in just a moment but first, i want to start with ken robinson, radio reporter, wtam in cleveland. what, dare we ask, is the very latest on this investigation into the house next door? >> well, the very latest is that yes, there was a stench coming from that house. neighbors complained again that the smell had returned, so cleveland police arrived to investigate. they brought in a crew. the house next door was actually being renovated, according to the owner. the owner says he's been working on rebuilding and reconfiguring this house and there was a lot of junk in the backyard, a lot of debris, so police had to bring a crew in to remove a lot of debris from the backyard, and now they're going to bring in thermal imaging equipment. they're going to scour that backyard, try to detect if any bodies are buried there. >> now, they're saying the smell is back big-time, right, ken?
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the neighbors? >> that's absolutely true. neighbors said the smell was worse than he had ever smelled it before. of course, we all know that the smell was one of the things that people had complained about earlier long before the bodies were discovered at sowell's house. >> so curtis sliwa, could that mean still more bodies? i mean, they removed bodies, the smell goes away, then they check in the house next door, the smell comes back, worse than ever. what does it tell you, curtis? >> jane velez-mitchell, no doubt about that. can you imagine for all these months, all these years, the smell, people walking around like this, nobody coming around. nobody investigating. nobody saying hey, this is a registered sex offender, this guy's done major time, why don't we just go inside and look around. particularly since he is the responsibility of the sheriff's department of kuyahoga county. my god, again, law enforcement a dollar short and a day late. we've seen this before.
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>> i got to wonder, judy koriansky, clinical psychiatrist, okay, the mayor of cleveland has a niece. the niece admits she dated this guy for a couple of years and they did drugs together. where was the mayor of cleveland? if i have a niece that's doing drugs, which i don't, thank god, but if i did, i would notice it. if it was happening over a period of time and i'd say who are you doing drugs with, i want to go see where you're living. >> well, what happens in these cases, and we've seen it over and over again, is that a lot of these horrific, horrible perpetrators come across like they're okay. people look the other way, that's one problem. nobody takes responsibility not just as curtis said, the law, but other people. some people complain but they don't do much more. and then the perpetrators themselves, there are different types of these people. some of them get away with it because they seem somewhat normal, oh, they may be drug
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addicts but you can't imagine that they're cutting up bodies or eating body parts or mutilating or having sex with dead bodies and all these things are so far beyond people's thoughts and fears that they try to turn the other way and that's what leads to this ignorance. >> racism led to this ignorance and a cultural socio-economic structure in our country that still exists led to this mess. and -- >> explain, jayne weintraub. what do you mean by that? >> because if these were white middle class women that were working professionals, do you think we would be waiting ten years to hear from entomologists about time of death? i think not, jane. i'll tell you something else i have been saying for awhile. i really think states need to step up. women need to step up and every state needs immediate legislation to prioritize and get stricter scrutiny, supervision for sex offenders who are violent or are being released imminently that are deemed to be dangerous.
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we need a tier process in every single state. you know that drunk driver woman you talk about? this legislation from october 11th today, it was in albany on the legislative floor. where is the legislation for these crimes? there's none. >> i agree with you 100%. ken robinson, this community has come together to express its outrage, but really, what is being done on a practical level to make changes in the laws? i know that there's been a call for a federal investigation into the police response to complaints about this man, but is anything being done to try to prevent another house of horrors from happening again? >> well, actually, the neighborhood is still in shock. the whole city of cleveland is still in shock. yes, there will probably be an investigation of the police department, why they didn't act earlier, but also, many people in the community tell me there's a lot of blame to go around. community members, people living in the community, weren't as
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vigilant in reporting seeing women going in and out of sowell's house and the smell that was coming from his house. >> because they were vulnerable women. nobody cared about them because boy, they might have been a drug addict or maybe somebody was desperate and being a prostitute. so who cares about them. that's what was going on, jane. he picked on vulnerable women as his victims. >> that's very true. >> get this. get this. i have some interesting facts to tell you about here because this is a mind blower. while sowell was in prison for attempted rape, he applied to a treatment program for sex offenders. get this. he wasn't accepted because he wouldn't accept any guilt. it gets worse. three months after his release, sowell went through an evaluation process required for convicted sex offenders. guess what the report concluded? it concluded that there was low risk of sowell reoffending, even though he admitted to being a violent alcoholic and claimed he had had sex with more than 50 women and that he had an appetite for porn.
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so i don't understand what these evaluations accomplish. are they a crock, dr. judy, these evaluations by psychiatrists of these dangerous people? >> i have to say that it really shows that the profession that i'm in is not really up to snuff about paying enough attention. the point is, the statistics show that people who offend, offend again. he's admitted it. sex offenders do many times offend over and over again. the treatments that we have for them are totally inadequate. it's like they don't change unless they really want to change. this is part of the serious problem. >> the public health department was out there, people. the health department, not just the parole department, the police. the health department was out there and left it undone, stench remained another few murders occurred. what does that tell you about
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the moral breakdown here? >> the stench remains tonight and does the mystery of exactly how many women are killed in the house of horrors, and the homes surrounding it. thank you, fantastic panel. we're going to stay on top of this story. moving on, a beautiful tv anchor woman beaten to death inside her bedroom. will the man who committed this brutal murder be sentenced to death? plus, a stripper, a priest and their baby head to court. if that doesn't get your attention, how about this. murderous monks? massive amounts of hush money? there's some wild claims. we've got both lawyers in this incredible case. it's a dramatic custody battle and we're taking your calls on it. a priest, and a stripper. 1-877-jvm-says. a priest and a stripper have a baby. it sounds like a joke but it ain't a joke. 1-877-586-7297. give me your thoughts.
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let's meet today's winner. george in california. george is an artist, a sculptor and this is a photo he sent in to cnn i-report of a very personal statue he's creating that depicts the day he decided to get sober. it's the morning. in 2006 when his wife sandy died of an overdose, she had tried to convince him to go with her for treatment for three years, but
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he wasn't willing. george is a combat veteran who struggles to this day with post-traumatic stress disorder and he admits that since his wife's death, it has been a struggle to stay sober. he has fallen off the wagon a few times but today, with support of his friends and recovery, he says he has just over four months without a drink. way to go, george. we are pulling for you and we are sharing your story and so proud of you. just keep it up. you'll be getting an autographed copy of my "new york times" best-selling book "i want" plus a chance to win a trip to new york city to visit me here on the set of "issues" and by the way, if you are struggling with addiction or know somebody who is, check out my new book "i want." it's at cnn.com/jane. it's my story of recovery and it just might help you. a priest, a stripper, and their child walk into a courtroom. sounds like a joke, right? but it is actually a real-life custody battle filled with allegations of payoffs, strip
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clubs and alleged threats of murdering monks. it's hard to keep track of this. we'll try to sort it all out for you. we have attorneys from both sides here to talk about it. but first, "top of the block" tonight. what a gruesome story. finally tonight, justice for anne pressly. this beautiful arkansas tv anchor woman was brutally beaten to death sleeping in her own bed. hours ago, curtis banks was convicted of capital murder, rape and theft of property. he could now face the death penalty. according to testimony, vance told cops he was just hoping to steal a laptop. now this beautiful 26-year-old tv journalist is dead. her face was beaten so badly, most of her bones were completely shattered. the war on women is out of control in this country and this was the tragic case that sparked our focus here on "issues" on this terrible trend. this conviction is a victory for the victim's family but we as a
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culture need to change. we need to change this blood-drenched culture so this kind of thing doesn't happen again. we will have much more on this story on tomorrow's "issues." that is tonight's "top of the block." well, it's baby mama drama for a priest and an ex-stripper. reverend david dupin had a secret affair with an exotic dancer by the name of beatrice hernandez. she says the disgraced priest was violent. she begged for a restraining order. we couldn't get a clear shot of her face but listen to what she said in court. >> i don't know for how long he was choking me and that's when i thought he was going to take my tongue out. >> now, the two have a 1-year-old love child. they met seven years ago at a miami strip club, where she worked and the priest was a regular. i can't believe i'm saying that. the priest was a regular at a strip club? guess what?
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the church knew all about this. they even gave her what some might call hush money. 30 grand to end the affair but money couldn't keep them apart. now their love has turned to the opposite, to hate, and they are firing off bizarre accusations. she says he threatened to keep our baby a secret or i will have you killed by monks. that sounds like something strait out of "the davinci code" and he says she forced me to have sex. oh, really? well, it all ended in a draw. the restraining order request was dismissed but this is far from ov from over. the two will be back in court to battle for custody of their baby girl. straight out to my fabulous expert panel and we're delighted to have lawyers for both sides here. attorney raymond rafal is representing father david and daniel caplan is the attorney for beatrice hernandez. first off, the thing that popped out at me is they met in a strip
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club where he was a regular. what on earth is a priest doing in a strip club? >> well, i don't know if you could say he was a regular but they did meet at a strip club. that's one of the things that david regrets as part of his life. >> yeah. i mean, priests aren't supposed to go to strip clubs. didn't anybody tell him that? >> yeah. he knows that. he knows that. i mean, one thing you have to understand is david will admit that he's made a lot of mistakes. mistakes going to strip clubs. mistakes breaking his vows. mistakes having a relationship with a person like hernandez. the only thing he will tell you is that he's very happy that he now has a child. and he's happy that the fact is that he is out in the open. there were a lot of things going on back in the time that he met her in 2003. he was at that time an alcoholic. he has now gone to rehabilitation. he is a much better person and he has made mistakes but he's trying to do everything he can to move forward. >> all right. i'm hearing you. we're going to ask you one more
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question. the priest says he only broke his vows of celibacy because she demanded sex. he says he was unable to resist her demands because he was abused as a child. he regrets it all. listen to this. resist because he was abused as a child. listen to this. >> all right. let me ask you this, raymond. i don't get it. how do you say a woman forced you to have sex? we all know how it works with the birds and bees. >> well, first of all, you are asking me to answer his question. i can't give you that answer. but, i can tell you the time david was with her, david felt vulnerable to her. in fact, if you look at the history of the case, he felt vulnerable to her on a number of occasions. every time she kept demanding money, he felt vulnerable.
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as far as david being under her control, he felt he was under her control. >> guess what, we are going to have the other side of the story. hang on. we're going to have the attorney on the opposite side of the case. bizarre case, indeed.
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i just wan to try out the foods she wants to eat. >> all right. that was the priest, father david. he's battling for custody of their baby daughter. we have been talking to attorneys from both sides. daniel, you have been hearing that side. let's hear your side of the story. >> hi, jane. first, i want to say that beatrice hernandez was psychologically and emotionally dependent upon father dupin.
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he told her she was possessed by demons. she would have to have sex, get naked and have oils from the church he would bring by. a box like this. this is the box he would use of the oils and put them on her to excise her from the demoons. he would take her to swingers clubs, nudist beaches. >> what? >> yeah, i interviewed a manager from miami velvet. he was so depraved, he got thrown out because he was groping all the women there. he was thrown out of a singers club. >> what about the allegation your client stalked another woman that she thought was involved with the priest. >> this is something of a red
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herring that father dupin is bringing up to distract from the real issues. their child and what contact the father should have with the child. my client believes that father dupin has psychological issues -- >> you think? >> yeah. she claims he's made sexually inappropriate comments and wants super vised visitation. >> men will be men. do men need to have sex on a bilogical basis. are their natural bilogical urges? this certainly isn't the first time a priest broke his vows. look at priest cue. he was on a beach, left the catholic church and now they are married. so, i want to go to jude di, dr.
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judy. is it realistic to tell a man, a priest, they cannot have sex? >> i think not. there are, indeed, natural sexual urges that every man and woman has. they can be turned into a different direction, they can be suppressed, you can say, as some might say, now, i give my life, my love, my blood, my sexuality to god, to jesus, but it will emerge. those sexual urges are human. >> all right. let's go to dan in pennsylvania. quickly your thoughts, sir. >> sure, the point she made is very true in my opinion. but, you know, anybody who wants to take on the seminary and become a priest and join that type of religion, they can try and try all they want. >> we're going to leave it with
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a fabulous caller who makes a lot of sense. you are watching "issues" on hln.
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