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tv   American Perspectives  CSPAN  November 14, 2009 8:00pm-11:00pm EST

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breaking news tonight. live, florida. exclusive enclave, ponte vedra coast. a high-powered money man comes home to find his young wife with covergirl good looks. the mother of his two little girl, gone. vanished. left behind? a handwritten ransom note demanding $50,000 in exchange for the life of the wife and mother, quinn gray. she allegedly suffers a horrific ordeal of kidnap, abuse, sex attack. tonight, ponte vedra, after $50,000 cold cash is paid cops
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close in to nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. kicker? it's mommy. mommy, herself, along with her brand new boy toy. that's right. they faked it. bye-bye, good times. hello, hard time, mommy. >> sheriff's office, 911. what's your emergency? >> my name is quinn gray, and i was kidnapped, and i'm not sure where i am right now. >> she called me a second ago and said she was held by gunpoint by three men -- >> did she tell you where she was at? >> no. >> it's just been the most
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incredible ordeal to go through something like this and in a 24-hour period to be brainwashed so significantly that you actually believe that your husband is trying to kill you or that he's not trying to keep you from being killed, i should say. >> right. >> i don't know. it was just the craziest situation i've ever been in in my life. >> did you try to get money from your husband? >> of course not. if i wanted $50,000, all i would do is take it out of the bank account. and tonight, live, maine. police say a beautiful 2-year-old baby girl in extreme danger. baby hailey snatched from her own home after her young mother brutally attacked. every minute counts. tonight, where is baby hailey? >> an amber alert has been issued for a 2-year-old girl in sanford, maine.
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police say 38-year-old gary traynham took his little girl hailey after a violent assault on her mother. police say the pair disappeared from sanford a little before noon and may be in the lakes region of new hampshire. traynham is believed to be driving a green 1998 dodge 1500 pickup truck with maine plates. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. live, florida. exclusive enclave, ponte vedra coast. a high-powered money man comes home to find his wife, the mother of his two little girls, gone, vanished. left behind? a handwritten ransom note demanding $50,000. after the $50,000 paid in cold cash, the cops nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. kicker? it's mommy. mommy, herself, along with her brand new lover. that's right. they faked it. bye-bye, good times. hello, hard time, mommy.
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>> took me from my home. and that's all i have to say. i would never try to take money from my husband. >> if they just knew you were here by yourself all night long with a gun, they would have a fit. >> that's why i'm starting to feel like i'm the sinister one, doing this to my family. >> it's reid, remember? >> i know.
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>> did you have a sexual relationship with osmanovic? >> no, i did not. i don't know him. >> why would someone make this up? >> you wouldn't make it up because it's the truth. >> straight out to frank powers with wjxt. frank, this is a little hard to believe. what happened? >> well, the latest on this case, nancy, is that just this morning, reid gray, who investigators have called the victim on this case, was on national tv. he's standing by his wife. he believes she was kidnapped. and then because of her mental disorder, bipolar disorder that she bonded with the suspect and began to participate in this plot to extort $50,000 from reid gray. now, there are a number of times when they tried to arrange a ransom drop of the $50,000. it never worked out. and she was released before any of the money was exchanged.
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>> take a look at these photos. she looks like heather locklear. she's absolutely beautiful. okay. to mark williams, anchor and reporter, also joining us out of the florida jurisdiction. mark, tell me the background. this guy is extraordinarily wealthy. they live there on the ponte vedra coast. why did she need money? she had money. she had his money. >> oh, she had -- she said she could go to the bank and get as much money as she needs. her husband, reid gray, is a health care executive, makes over $1 million a year. >> wait a minute. didn't he found the company? >> yes, he did. plus, they live in a $4 million home right along this exclusive seaside resort. she found this gentleman, this 26-year-old boy toy, as i call him, by the name of jasmin -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. did you say 26? >> he's 26. >> okay. go ahead. >> hey, i can't make any of this up, nancy.
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you know that. my credibility rides on everything. jasmin osmanovic. he and quinn gray cooked up this scheme to extort that $50,000. it was never delivered. obviously, there's audiotapes of them making love. >> take a listen to quinn, the alleged kidnap victim, along with boyfriend on tape. >> straight out to the lines. beverly in new york. hi, beverly. >> caller: hi, nancy. my question is, i want to know why would her husband be
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standing by her, if she wanted to blow his head off, as she said on the tape recording? >> yeah, i noticed that. take a listen to what he just had to say in the last hours. >> i believe in all my heart she was kidnapped. i also believe at some point, i'm not sure exactly when, she believed that she needed to be a part of this. it was hard for me to understand when or why that happened. devastating, to say the least. but i am standing by her now because i believe that she has a mental illness, and that's why we are here. >> why don't you think this was just another episode of infidelity? >> that last such episode in june led to quinn going to rehabilitation, alcohol rehabilitation, and it was that point where i made this decision that we would end this marriage unless she went forward with this. that eight weeks before this abduction were some of the best eight weeks we've ever had in our life. i couldn't imagine for a second that she would have made this up.
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>> okay. i guess he didn't know about the 26-year-old boyfriend. you just saw sound from nbc's "today" show. we are taking your calls live. let's answer beverly in new york's question. after leading police and her own husband, much less her two little girls on a wild goose chase with all these tearful calls about how the husband's screwing up the money and they're going to kill her, telling police she was sexually assaulted, beaten, brainwashed during all of this, why, dr. janet taylor, psychiatrist, joining us out of new york, why is the husband standing by her -- oh, by the way, everybody, she's gone to a rehab facility in st. simons island, georgia, which is really a resort. now the husband is claiming she's bipolar. okay. dr. taylor, give me a crack at it. >> well, he described himself. i think he's in shock. he's in denial. everything he's been holding on to. his whole world is crumbling
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around him. also, he does apparently believe he has a bipolar disorder, and he said he didn't want to split the family up if she indeed has a mental illness and needs him. but i have a hard time believing that he can stand there and listen to her say "why don't we blow his head off" and he's still standing right by her. it's hard to believe. >> to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer. everybody, we're taking your calls live. mommy is now in a rehab facility. what about it, ellie jostad? what more can you tell me? >> as you heard her husband say in that "today" show clip, she got treatment this past summer for alcoholism at a clinic in minnesota. now she's at st. simons by the sea. she was actually released on $200,000 bond. it was a million. her attorney asked for it to be lowered so she could get this mental treatment. she's there right now being evaluated. don't know when she'll be able to go home. >> out to the lines. donna in maryland. hi, donna. >> caller: hi. how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: well, i wanted to tell you i've been with you and
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following your pictures on the beautiful babies. >> they just turned 2 this past wednesday. >> caller: i know. my birthday's this month, too. they're beautiful. i noticed in the audiotapes that she identified three men. she said it was three men. did she give any description on the men? and did any of the descriptions fit maybe one of the young lovers? >> back to you, ellie jostad. didn't at one point she ask police to go back and look at the video footage, the surveillance video. what was it? a target or a sammal warehouse or -- >> yeah, it was a publix. she actually -- and this was after she'd already been interviewed by the police. she called them and said how come you guys haven't gone to publix? my kidnapper went to publix at one point. he should be on surveillance. and they said well, you've actually never mentioned that until now, but we'll do that. they got the surveillance tape and sure enough, she says there's him, there's the guy on the tape.
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i'm just reading this ransom note. it goes on and on and on about, well, you can only get this amount out of this bank, but they don't care where you get the money. she goes through about starting with $7,000, that's good enough for right now, but they want $50,000. to wear a tight t-shirt when he comes to drop off the money. but it doesn't end there, does it, ellie jostad? after all of that, after all of that, the dad, the victim digs
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up the $50,000 cold cash. he leaves it next to a jones stone cold crash -- some crab shack, and then somebody else picks up the money? >> what happened is the alleged kidnappers apparently lost patience with the husband. they started dealing with the kidnap victim's mother. she tries to drop off the money at joe's stone crab. a bunch of guys, some german exchange students from valdosta state actually pick up the money instead. they think it's drug money, they freak out and call the police. >> it sounds so melodramatic. let's go out to the lawyers. joining me tonight, felony prosecutor eleanor odom. tamara holder, defense attorney out of chicago. peter odom, defense attorney out of atlanta. eleanor, listen to this. this is her writing her mom. she's got plenty of time to lounge around and write ransom notes about herself. "drop the money out of the car. don't look back, mother.
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don't look back." all right? it's like sodom and gomorrah. don't look back. you'll turn into a pillar of salt. it goes on and on and on. she does this to her mother. "put your cell phone in the mailbox and drive without it. they won't hurt you or me as long as everything goes to plan." what about it? >> you know, nancy, this is the craziest thing i've ever heard. but that doesn't mean she's crazy. and what i'd look at is her competency at this time all this was happening. does she know the difference between right and wrong? and clearly from what we're hearing she does. >> out to the lines, jennifer in pennsylvania. hi, jennifer. >> caller: you know, nancy -- >> hi, jennifer. i think you're there. do you have a question, dear? okay. can't hear. let's go to angela in illinois. hi, angela. >> caller: hi. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: my question is how do they get all these audiotapes if she was already kidnapped? >> okay. how did that work? out to you, mark williams. >> the boy toy, the 25,
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26-year-old boy toy, decided to make audiotapes of them making love, and then later they talked about -- >> you know, i hate when that happens. >> -- getting their story straight. >> right in the middle of you trying to kidnap yourself and get $50,000 cold cash your lover makes tapes of you having sex. now, that kind of threw a monkey wrench in the whole thing, mark williams. how did they surface? >> well, they surfaced when -- >> he got arrested? >> yeah. he delivered the tapes. he says, listen, i don't want to get nailed on a kidnapping charge. so he gave them the tapes, said listen to them. and that's why they were released. part of the investigation. >> no, i did not. i did not know him. >> why would someone make this stuff up? >> you wouldn't make it up if it was the truth. y8
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he started kissing on my ear and my neck, and -- >> how did you react at that point? >> i just -- i kind of reacted just still at first, you know? a little bit still. and then i started to act like i enjoyed it a little bit. and he started to kiss me and -- >> and what was your frame of mind at that point? what was going through your mind when this was happening?
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>> my frame of mind was we're going to have sex. and i'm going to have sex with him, and that's all. yeah, all my clothes come off. >> okay. >> yeah. he helps me, but i'm helping too. and i acted like i enjoyed it. and i'm not going to lie. sometimes i almost did. i knew i wasn't going to -- to resist him. so i tried to make it the best possible. you know? and he would just over and over and over and over and over and over again, and sometimes i would -- i would say what he wanted me to say and do whatever he wanted me to do. >> there was a mole on the back of his neck. have you told anybody else that? >> i knew he was moley. he had moles. you know, but not a lot. >> did you see him with no shirt on? >> yeah. there was nothing distinguishable. his nipples weren't very dark. >> okay. why did you see him with no shirt on? >> because we were -- we had sex a lot.
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>> sheriff's office 911. what's your emergency? >> my name is quinn gray, and i was kidnapped, and i'm not sure where i am right now. >> she's definitely participating. i'm not sure after four days of being with this person what she believes and what she doesn't believe. but i agree with you. there are times when i just want to shut it out of and be finished with the whole thing, but i have to remember that there are many times when i heard his voice and him saying things that i believe he knew i would hear this audiotape at some point as well. >> if you go under the assumption that she didn't know she was being recorded, that makes her sound guilty. >> as guilty as can be. it's probably the most hurtful, devastating words i've ever heard. i think of my children. i think of myself. and i think of how this is going to affect their lives going forward. and i know at that point when i
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heard that, i was so shocked that i knew something was wrong. i knew something was definitely wrong. that person that i knew so well would go to the extent of talking about that. >> that last sound was from nbc's "today" show. let's go back to the lawyers. but first, to lisa lockwood, former police detective, author of "undercover angel." what do you make of this? an entire faked kidnapping where she tried to rip off her husband of $50,000. forget about the two little girls. >> have you ever heard the saying "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned?" that's what i believe this is about. this is a woman who was after her husband. revenge. >> for what? >> to make him suffer for his affair. >> okay. hold on just a moment. let's backtrack. tell me about the affair. >> he allegedly had an affair before she went into rehab with a spanish woman. and these were written in a few of the letters. it was disclosed that she was
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envious of this and this is her way of getting the money back. if you watch her physicality and her tonality in those interviews, you can clearly see this is a woman who is extremely calculating and was deceptive. >> you know, that's a really interesting take on it, lisa lockwood. i didn't really put that much stock in the whole theory of the husband's affair. but maybe you're right. with us, lisa lockwood, former police detective, author of "undercover angel." marc klaas, what's so disturbing to me is that while she was leading her husband, her children, and all the police on a wild goose chase there were legitimate kidnaps, legitimate children missing calls that were not getting the cops' full attention while they were dealing with the heather locklear look-alike. >> that's absolutely true. there's three points i'd like to make. number one, nancy, if alcoholism or mental illness were a justification or excuse for committing crime, then we'd have to open the doors of every
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prison in the united states and let every one of those inmates out. secondly, we don't have kidnapping for ransom in the united states. it was mentioned by the husband in this that it sounded like a bad movie plot. well, it is a very bad movie plot. notwithstanding hollywood, these things don't happen. the last time there was a fake ransom like that was in the jonbenet case, another long, rambling note which we know was fake because the little girl was dead in her -- in the basement. now, the real concern here, though, for people in my industry is the whole idea of faking kidnappings. what that does is it creates cry wolf scenarios so that the next time something like that happens there's a cynicism on the part of the public, or very well could be a cynicism on the part of the public about whether or not -- >> i agree. >> -- that kidnapping is an actual kidnapping or not. not to mention the resources that are taken away from legitimate situations. >> back to the lawyers.
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eleanor odom, peter odom, tamara holder. peter odom, what about her telling the cops? and this is obviously a voluntary statement. "i tried to make the best possible sex ever over and over and over again." then she goes on. and this is a new one on me. i've heard a lot of descriptions of a lot of perps. she describes his nipples. peter? thoughts? >> nancy, in the recordings that we're hearing, you know, it was the perpetrator, the so-called kidnapper, maybe hoax kidnapper, that decided what to record, not the victim in this case, ms. quinn. so you have to wonder what's going on during the times when he's not taping, himself. we've heard of stockholm syndrome, where sometimes kidnapping victims actually -- >> wait, wait. put him back up. >> -- identify with kidnappers. >> peter, there's no kidnapping, so there's no stockholm syndrome. okay? there was no kidnapping. that was her with her lover. okay? you do get it, right? she was never kidnapped, peter
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odom. >> this case still has questions all over it, nancy. >> could you explain to me, peter odom -- >> he had some power over her. he had some power over her. he had some power over her, but we haven't explored it yet. >> i heard you the first four times you said that. to you, tamara. maybe i can get it out of you. since there's no kidnapping, how could there be a stockholm syndrome where you start to identify with your kidnappers? >> i don't think there's a stockholm syndrome here, but i do think that the woman has mental problems and -- >> let's talk about that. just one moment. >> -- and alcoholism -- i'm sorry. >> dr. marty makary, physician every professor, public health at johns hopkins. let's explore tamara holder's theory. we know she went into rehab this past summer for alcoholism at a very ritzy rehab. nothing wrong with that. but what about the theory she had an untreated, undiagnosed mental disorder? that's what the husband is saying. and then in the last hours he says, yeah, she's bipolar. she's never been diagnosed or
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treated for that. >> i'm glad you're making the distinction, nancy, between behavioral problems and psychiatric illness. psychiatric disease, those are problems with pathways in the brain that result in behaviors that have a clear pattern. paranoia, schizophrenia, behaviors which meet clear-cut diagnoses. addiction, manipulation, extortion, those are not psychiatric behaviors. and they don't fit any of the criteria for known psychiatric conditions. >> out to the lines. kim in georgia. hi, kim. >> caller: hi. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: i would like to know is it possible that she's going to be charged in this case? >> oh, kim, in georgia, she will be charged in this case. what i don't understand is how they let her go to a fancy rehab instead of sitting behind bars. that's what i don't get, eleanor odom. >> i agree, nancy. first of all, let's start with false report of a crime, and then we'll go on from there. some of her terroristic threats and whatnot. but you know she's going to be charged as an accomplice to this fake kidnapping.
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>> we are taking your calls live, but i want to go back to frank powers. frank, what more can you tell me about the case? is the husband still standing by her at this hour? >> he has remained steadfast in her support, nancy. >> and to you -- >> go ahead. >> go ahead, dear. >> the reason that we see a lot of interest in this case, this case has really gone global. you also have a lot of pressure from the law enforcement community. we were talking about that earlier. they spent about $200,000 that weekend, both state, local, and federal officials, looking for her. and they're not too happy about that. >> to you, mark williams, why did the judge let her go to a fancy posh rehab at st. simons island? >> well, they thought probably -- more than likely that was the best thing to do in this case since the issue of her possible bipolar disease cropped up. so they put her there. >> okay. that's complete b.s. everybody, as we go to
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break, happy 100th birthday to georgia friend of the show, miss sybil marsh-bateman. a faithful member of mikado baptist church, proud mother of three sons, billy, ken, bobby. mrs. bateman never misses a show. happy birthday, miss sybil.
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police issuing an amber alert for a missing 2-year-old girl taken by her father this morning in sanford, maine. police believe 2-year-old hailey traynham was taken from her mother's home by 38-year-old gary traynham. authorities say the two may be in the lakes region of new hampshire.
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>> straight out to dennis hoey, reporter with the "portland press herald" and "maine sunday telegram." dennis, this is the only amber alert out of the state of maine. what happened? >> that's correct, nancy. it's the first amber alert ever issued by the state of maine since it was implemented seven years ago. what we do know is that maine state police and sanford police issued an amber alert around 5:00 this evening for 2-year-old hailey traynham, who was abducted from her apartment by her biological father, gary traynham. the parents, gary and lisa gould, are the biological parents, but we're not certain whether they're married or not. and they're still searching for mr. traynham, who is believed to be in the lakes region of new hampshire. >> stacy newman, our producer on the story. stacy, what more can you tell me about the little girl? >> this little girl, 2-year-old baby hailey, cops believe she is in extreme danger tonight, nancy.
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why? because her mother was violently assaulted moments before she was snatched and taken by her biological father. >> okay. back to dennis hoey. dennis, i know this is the only amber alert out of the entire state of maine. and it is a parental kidnap. a lot of people don't take that as seriously as other like stranger abductions. what do we know about the father, dennis? >> we know that the father, nancy, is her biological father, but i'm pretty certain right now from what police have been telling me that he is not married to the victim, lisa gould. that's the mother of the girl. he lives in kennebunk, which is a town near sanford, with his parents. and he has a child, a 12-year-old child by a prior marriage who does not live with him and his parents. >> so he doesn't have -- whoa, whoa, did you say him and his parents? >> he lives with his parents in kennebunk. >> he's 38 years old and he
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lives with his parents? >> correct. >> okay. he does not have custody of either of the two children, and we know there was a brutal assault on little hailey's mother. and then he took the girl and left. out to marc klaas. he is the president and founder of klaaskids foundation. marc, what do you make of it? and why is it that when we have a so-called parental abduction it's taken less seriously than stranger on stranger abductions? >> well, it's not really taken less seriously, but it's thought that the children are not in nearly as much danger as they are in a stranger predatory type of a situation. but i have to say, nancy, that if this woman was violently beaten at 11:00 in the morning it makes no sense that they would wait almost six hours before activating the amber alert. that tells me it's a failed alert for the simple reason that children who are murdered as a result of an abduction, 76.2% of them will be dead within the first three hours. this should have been called immediately. >> how does that break down to
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parental abductions? same stats apply? >> yes. absolutely. children that are murdered as a result of an abduction. that's across the board. >> and you know what else, marc, at some point the kidnapper, if he believes that cops are on to him, could very well kill himself and the child. they never just kill themselves, marc. never. that never happens. they kill the mother, they kill the child. they throw the child off a bridge when they're about to be apprehended. i believe that's why cops think this is so dangerous. >> yeah. i completely agree with you. they need to find this guy, and they need to find him fast. they should have gotten this alert out much sooner than they did. >> what do you think the problem was? >> i have no idea. but basically, the way the amber alert is established and set up in this country, there is this built-in delay. the original intent of the amber alert in texas in 1996 was very different from the thing that it's transmogrified into here
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now in 2009. >> i want to go out to dr. marty makary. dr. makary, we have seen this scenario play out so many times. and you on your end at the hospital, what is your concern tonight? >> well, there are certain characteristic injuries that this person's at risk for, and dehydration and malnutrition compound the potential risk of those injuries, causing long-term problems with development. we're talking about learning disabilities down the road. we're talking about long-term problems that could come from a major trauma, psychologically and physically at this time. >> dr. makary, that's if the girl lives through this ordeal. what i'm concerned about is what this guy's going to do when he realizes cops are on to him. let me tell you what i know about this. gary traynham, age 38. he's 5'11", 230 pounds, balding brown hair. can we show a picture of him, liz? a picture in full since we're describing him right now. hazel eyes, dark goatee, which is not pictured here. maybe in the lakes region of eastern new hampshire.
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we believe he's driving a '98 green dodge pickup truck with a maine license plate 8629 n nancy b bermuda. 8629 nb. the tip line, 207-324-3644. after a brutal attack on the little girl's mother, the child is reported missing. out to the lines, laura in florida. hi, laura. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: first of all, i wanted to say your twins are beautiful, and we watch your show every night. >> thank you. thank you so much. and thank you for calling in. what's your question, dear? >> caller: what is the status of the mother? is she going to live? >> good question. what about it? dennis hoey joining us from "portland press herald" and "maine sunday telegram." what do you know about the mom's condition? >> the mother, nancy, is being treated tonight at a hospital in sanford for her injuries and is expected to recover from her injuries and be released sometime later tonight.
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>> so she's still in the hospital? >> police would not describe the nature of the assault other than that it was a violent assault. >> okay. we know cops are saying this child is extreme danger. she's only old, shoulder-length blond hair, blue eyes. take me down off the screen, please and show her in full so the viewers can take a look at her. she weighs around 35 to 50 pounds, father allegedly assaulted the mom, brutally and took off with the little girl around 11:15 a.m. today. out of sanford, maine. tip line 207-324-3644. please, be on the lookout. a 98 green dodge pickup maine license play 8629nb. very quickly to tonight's salute the troops. texas friend angela gaffer saluting her son army specialist, cory gavner.
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>> -- specialist corey gafner's mom. i am so proud of my son for representing this country. i want to tell my son to stay strong, be safe and i want to let him know that i love him very much.
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2-year-old girl in sanford, maine. police say 38-year-old gary traynham took his little girl hailey after a violent assault on her mother. police say the pair disappeared from sanford a little before noon and may be in the lakes region of new hampshire. traynham is believed driving a green 1998 dodge 1500 pickup with maine plates. >> okay. to the lines. amber, ohio. hi, amber. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: i had a question it a
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stranger-to-stranger abduction is so dangerous, if this father beat her mother what makes the cops think he's not going to do it to this little girl. >> i don't think anything. if he will do this to the mother of his child, what will do to a helpless little girl. stacey newman does this guy have a record that we know of? >> as we go to air we were not able to dig up a record on this guy but wouldn't be surprised if something did pop up, nancy. >> we are taking your calls live but hearing in my ear to stacey newman, i understand there's news? >> yes, nancy. right now, this is is just come in, crossing the wire. there are reports of a sighting of traynham and little hailey in alton, new hampshire, nancy, about 31 miles from sanford where the little girl was abducted and her mom allegedly assaulted seem this amber work is actually working. >> to mark klaas. mark, you and i both know that minutes count, minutes count. you're the one that first told
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me the statistics after about three hours whether it's the parental abduction or stranger abduction the child is dead, for whatever reason. weigh in. >> well, you know, if this is true, if they have been located in alton -- >> sighted, sighted. sights. >> okay, sighted. if she's located and recovered alive, it's a wonderful thing. but the amber alert needs to be tweaked. the criteria needs to be changed. we don't need this kind of central notification. local authorities. >> guys, in the last minutes that i have you, i'm going to give you the tipline. 207-324-3644. 207-324-3644. there is a sighting of this kidnapped child alton, new hampshire. please, take a look at little hailey according to police, her life depends on it. let's stop and remember army
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sergeant thomas vandeling junior, 26, killed iraq. studied at university of pittsburgh on a second tour awarded the bronze star, two purple hearts, army condemndation medal loved sports, skiing, tae kwon do, reading dreamed of traveling to australia leaves behind parents thomas and diane brothers and sister. thomas vandeling, jr. american hero. thanks for being with us and a special welcome back from our hearts to our supervising producer elizabeth. she's been gone in order to welcome her brand new baby boy. congratulations. everyone, i'll see you tomorrow night, 8:00 sharp eastern. until then, good night, friend.
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tonight onty joy behar show first car rye prejean threatens to walk off larry king now want mess to apologize for laughing. what next, give anderson cooper a time out? the attorney general no joe halderman will join me for a one-on-one about screenplays black mail and david letterman. and shop aholics, a real addiction or a case of wanting what you can't afford? we'll talk about it. all that and more starts now.
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christmas is coming and the gift that keeps on giving is back, yes, sarah palin sat down with oprah to promote her new book that interview will air on monday but why not unwrap this one early? oprah released clips. thereon oprah ask her about the infamous katie couric interview. >> did you think that was a seminole defining moment for you? >> i did not. neither did the campaign, that's why segment maybe two, three, four, five were scheduled. the campaign said right on, good, showing your independence what the country wants to see this is a good interview. i was thinking if you thought it was a good interview i don't know what a bad interview was because i knew it wasn't a good interview. >> sarah bernard contributing editor of "new york" magazine and brian, comedian and
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journalist welcome to the show. >> thanks. >> did you see the interview? >> i did. >> did you see it was hostile of katie? >> no, i think this he were very straightforward questions and she did what she's supposed to do. i don't say that because i work at cbs, persist tents and followed up like journalism 101, sad that is seen as extraordinary. she didn't a great job but shouldn't that be par for the course. >> why isn't that? >> because ever everybody is afraid. >> she wouldn't answer a simple question what do you need. it's okay if it's highlights for children. and she just wouldn't cave in and say, you know, i read the "new york times" or "washington post" it was a question somehow beneath her and i think that's what ended up biting her. >> are you on her side. >> i don't know about that. i think it was actually really interesting because people who were in the audience of the oprah taping said that she, sarah palin, intimated she might be interested in hosting a talk show. >> ah-ha. >> i thought what us the most interesting news actually out of that. i mean, is that what we are going to get? that's christmas a long time.
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>> maybe i better watch my -- >> i thought that sarah in that clip was brilliant we saw doing an amazing impression of tina fey doing an impression of sarah palin. >> i know, brilliant. >> her hair was bigger. >> i think it's great. >> she's gorgeous, another situation. we don't want to go there. a very pretty girl we all know that. she also asked about her pseudo-son-in-law. >> one final question about levy, will he be invited to thanksgiving dinner? >> you know, that's a great question and, you know, it's lovely to think that he would ever even consider such a thing because, of course, you want -- he is a part of the family and you want to bring him in the fold and kind of under your wing and he needs that, too oprah, he needs to know he is is loved and has the most beautiful child. this can all work out for good, it really can. we don't have to keep going down this road of controversy and drama all the time. we are not really into the drama. we don't really like that.
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we are more productive and have other things to concentrate on including -- >> yes he is coming or no he's not? >> oprah had it. do you believe her? you know levy johnston, the things he said she said the little baby, trigg, i believe refers to him as my little retarded baby which could be an afictionate way to talk about the kid. i don't think sarah would like that. she didn't could can, you know, so what and wanted to quit the governorship to make money in ""vanity fair"" but palin's response, via a spokesman consider the source of the most recent attention-getting lies, those who sell their body no money, meaning him, reflect a desperate need for attention and are likely to say and do anything for even more attention. okay y. is she playing nicy nice now? doesn't she really want to kill him. >> absolutely. if he is going, se definitely taking at the kids' table.
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she's trying to take the high road because you have on oprah or she will call you out. >> his head will end up in the oven on thanksgiving. he's not a reputable sort on any of this i take her side on this. last night on the "insider" they did a poll who would be a better catch and jon gosselin got 80%. don't ask why i was watching but it's true, it's bad. >> i definitely would go with levy. >> because you wouldn't have to take care of eight kids. >> exactly. the other one is a rage-aholic. leave v just shoots his mouth off. >> i just love the idea of that family and being at thanksgiving, i think it is better for sarah palin and for her to sell books right now, face it, all that she's doing to act like that family might get back together. >> not stopping in major cities on her tour, you know, only going to what she calls the real america. isn't brooklyn, new york the real america? it looked like that when i was there. >> my sources tell me she didn't actual ree write ut but put
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together mad-libs, like running for vice president was neat, that kind of thing. >> who do you think is more [ inaudible ] palin or oprah? simplts these two ladies will redraw the map of the world. it's terrifying, come on. >> like magellan. let's move on, carri carrie prejean admitted to a solo sex tape. i love this, all by yourself and tmz that's why she dropped her lawsuit against the pay gent. larry king asked her about the settlement last night. we've seen this but watch it again. >> in mediation, it was discussed why you were mediating. >> larry, it's completely confidential and you're being inappropriate. >> okay. >> okay? you're being inappropriate. >> inappropriate king live continues. >> yes. >> wow. she calls larry inappropriate. isn't it more inappropriate to make a tape of yourself masturbating it and send it to your boyfriend? >> yes, it is. >> that word sticks out like david letterman called it creepy what he did, the word is "weird"
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isn't it? >> i think, face it, though, again she has something to sell like sarah palin. we would not be talking about her, i think what she did actually was kind of brilliant in a way. if you flip it around and realize she's got -- >> carrie and prejean and brilliant in the same sentence -- >> if she just sat there and did her regular interview with larry king we would not be talking about her right now. >> so terrible for miss north carolina who actually won miss usa. everyone forgets she won -- >> nobody cares about her, only interested in carrie no. it's true. >> seems she went to the canye west school of training. customarily when you say you will walk off you actually do. i think the one thing she did right if you do a sex tape do it in your 20s because gravity a and -- is not kind. >> tmz spoke to the ex-boyfriend who she made the tape for. listen what he said? >> there was numerous, i'd say,
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probably about 15, 20 videos that she sent. >> and they were all explicit videos? >> yes, very much. >> how old was she, how old was she some. >> um, she was 19 when i was out there. the videos poured in all the way up to just shy of, oh, gosh, i mean she had to have been under 21. >> this wasn't a lapse in judgment when you give yourself a bad haircut. she has a cottage industry of tapes. >> she could go into syndication. >> oh, my god. >> we should explain why it's important she was 0, not 17. if they were actually 17, then it would be i guess illegal probably for people to -- to trade it. >> can we use the "l" word here in is she lying. >> oh. >> which "l" word, exactly.
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>> lewd or -- >> no the "ld" word on television, they don't like to say "lie" they say it was a falsehood. >> exactly. >> is that christian of her, to lie? >> she was bearing false witness. is that one of the ten commandments, though. >> thou sial not attack your neighbor or make sex tapes and send them to your boyfriend. >> coveting, even though of herself. seriously, you cannot make a sex tape and have a platform on any morale issue. >> well, that's -- now you hit on the exact reason everybody is turning on her. and the same with sarah palin with her kid, she is is talking about abstinence then tracking the daughter around with a big belly, okay. it's ridiculous. so, that's the reason that people go after her yet the victim card they always play the victim card on these topics, right. >> if you have an opinion and you voice it, you also open yourself up to being opposed to it and judging you for it. she's forgdz getting she can say anything she wants and no one hold her accountable for it. she nestles a crucifix down in
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her cleavage which i think she is is making a statement here. >> she wants to keep jesus warm. that's okay. >> i think the funniest thing about that interview, how it was almost like she was having a fight or she seemed like she kept telling larry to calm down and he was perfectly calm the whole time not actually getting upset or anything and she was saying calm down, calm down, you are being inproemt, being inappropriate making him more in control and totally calm. >> on the "the view" with me shall was very, how should i put it, tense, she turned on me. >> did she. >> somebody on this show made a joke and we all laughed and she wanted an apology from me because i laughed. i support the comedian. i laugh at his jokes. we stick together, babe, okay? >> she watches your show, that's a good sign. >> oh, yeah, they're out there watching. >> you remember "dead man walking" is she related to -- >> sounds like my ex-husband. wait a minute, she keeps saying she's being pay lenized listen to this. >> there is this double standard
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that conservative women are fair game to be attacked and it's not right and it needs to stop. >> doesn't the conservative media tear down lib ra politicians? >> not to the extent that liberals do to conservative women. >> the conservative media commentators denounced sonya sotomayor as a racist, hillary clinton as a biatch and liar and recently accused nancy pelosi but sell her own body to get the health bill passed. >> that was called a larry king smackdown! you know, he had that information right in front of him. she thinks this is a one-way street, poor me and too bad about the rest of them. right? >> laura ingraham really accused her of [ bleep ]ing herself. >> did larry king really say "biatch" i love him, he's my hero, sexually attracted to him? i'm getting [ inaudible ] over larry. >> very appropriate. >> can't wait for the tape. >> she backed out of a gop
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speaking event in d.c., by the way. >> i think that was exactly the wrong thing to do. again i'm telling you she's brilliant. this is only helping her if she had gone there she probably would have gotten a lot more attention. >> the right-wing loves these air-heads. everyone stay right there. quick programming note. the donald, trump, responds to cachie prejean's tantrum in an exclusive. make sure you stay tuned for it tonight at 11:00. that's great. when we come back the latest in david letterman extortion case. what a show this is tonight.
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the lawyer for the man who allegedly tried to extort two million dollars from david
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letterman says he wasn't trying to blackmail dave, just trying to sell him a screenplay. with me is the attorney for the man accused of blackmailing the late night host. explain exactly how this screenplay defense works. >> i think it diminishes it when you call it that. i think i can best explain it this way. you know, there was a time when william randolph hearst learned about citizen caene, the movie and didn't want it published in the worst way and went ahead and offered millions of dollars to see that "citizen cane "not be released. as we all know it was released. just this week three cases in the news where confidentiality agreements were at the core of the issue. where someone wanted to pay to have something not published or made public. that's all that happened here, can joe halderman. >> it's a little suspicious,
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though, a couple of things, with all due respect to you. why would you -- >> i'm listening, i'm listening. >> why did your client go to him at 6:00 in the morning. i understand it's kind of a little bit weird, very godfatherish to show up at 6:00 a.m. with a screenplay. >> no, it wasn't and the fact, can i say this? >> yeah. >> the fact that so so many people are relying on 6:00 in the morning delivery of the package is kind of ridiculous. first of all, it's easily explained. they both went to work at 6:00 in the morning, number one. number two, joe halderman knew david letterman's driver, the best way to get it to david letterman. showing up at david letterman's apartment at 9:00 in the morning wouldn't have made it better or different. if fed-exed it does that mean there is no case. >> that's fine. why would he say in the letter he sent him your world is going to collapse? that sounds a little threatening to me, not exactly friendly at any hour of the morning. >> there is no requirement in a commercial transaction people be friendly. there's no requirement in a commercial -- >> your world is going to
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collapse is beyond friendly. it's threatening. >> it's not threatening. it is a reality. it was a reality, number one. and number two, he had the absolute right to go to letterman with his intellectual property and offer him the right of first refusal. that's all he was doing. you know something, if you want it draw on the tapes or communication, in later meetings joe halderman made it crystal clear he said to jim jackoway representing him at the time, clearly it's your option. you don't have to take this. that doesn't sound threatening to me, by the way, not threatening at all. his tone was not threatening. if you heard the tapes, joy and you will someday. >> when? when will i hear the traipse? >> at a trial if a trial curse. >> first of all letterman's attorney doesn't buy what you are saying at all. let's listen to what he said on abc's "go morning, america". >> who negotiates a business transaction at 6:00 in the morning in the shadows of somebody's apartment building? who says your world's about to collapse? who threatens their personal and
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professional lives and who says at 6:00 in the morning, i need an answer in two hours. those are not the earmarks of legitimate business transactions but earmacs of classic blackmail. >> okay. what do you say to that? >> you want my answer? >> yeah, go ahead. >> the fact in about 20 seconds he had to mention 6:00 in the morning twice and as you mentioned 6:00 in the morning right at the outset f. that's what the prosecution's proof is they'll be laughed out of court. if that's what they will put before the court -- before the jury, statements like in the dark shadows of night, first of all i think it was still daylight savings time so i don't even know if it was dark but in the dark shadows of night that kind of hyperbole, they will be laughed out of court. >> what is it. >> did we say hello yet. >> hi, how are you. i'm just here to ask you some questions. >> objectively, yes. >> i have to ask you a question, yes. you are doing a lot of talk shows, doesn't that taint the jury a bit, the fact that you
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are on all the talk shows talking? how are you going to get a real jury to, what's the word i'm looking for here, i'm not a lawyer here. >> to be fair and impar hall sbloo there you go. >> that's what you are groping for. >> fair and balanced, oh, that's the other station. >> fair and impartial. okay. >> how are you going to do that when you are all over the tv. >> here's the answer. >> go ahead. >> here's the answer. here's the answer. first of all when this case goes it trial it won't be for six, seven, eight, nine, ten months from now. second of all i have the right because the press has been all over this asking questions like you are asking assuming joe halderman is guilty when he's not. i have the right to -- you asked the question i'll give you the answer. >> balancing in a court of law would be the place to do it, yeah. >> but the better question. >> yeah. >> the better question, why does david letterman have a team of lawyers tracking me around. >> david is not on trial for committing a crime. your client is. david is not. >> why does he have -- why did
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he engage a criminal defense lawyer, is he expecting trouble? what's going on here? why does he need a criminal defense lawyer. >> i don't think david committed a crime. your client committed a crime. that's why you are out there trying to defend him. thank you, gerald. thanks for doing this. you'll be on another show before you know it. >> thanks. >> we'll be back in a minute.
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i'm back with my panel, talking about the alleged extortion plot against david letterman. okay, what did you think of what the lawyer said and what do you think is is going to happen now. >> well, i think we're all excited for the actual movie about this whole thing. i mean the screenplay came too early. he should have waited until all this unfolded a and written one and casted them. >> i think they're ticked off, not really what they call a ramon o'clay, right? fictionalized this was david letterman starring it like "the late shift". >> more biopic. >> i want to play the pissed-off
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wife. >> you really could play that. >> i could, don't you think? >> casting david letterman will be tricky. they could go with david letterman but he was terrible in "cabin boy." >> i never saw it. >> i don't think he's available. >> i think nicole kidman can do amazing things with prosthetics. >> letterman? >> letterman. with prosthetics, anything is is possible. >> i would nominate russell crowee for that laurt. what do you think, beard, he could do it. too good looking. >> halderman, rick sanchez with a goatee. >> danny devito for -- >> -- he's got the look but the character is a bit one-eyed willie. >> don't you think this whole case wal shoot letterman's numbers through the roof. an actual trial like o.j., we'll be riveted to it. fantastic. the other guys will be on the ledge. >> they'll kill themselves. they will be simultcasting the
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late how is on tru tv, amazing. >> he's doing better than ever. >> letterman is doing very well. you think it is attached to this, right? >> this is the best thing that could have happened, the screenplay making it seem more silly and he's the victim. >> do you think the public opinion has been unfair to letterman? >> i don't think it was unfair and he's been very apologetic and people have processed and this has come out now a second wave of people feeling, i feel bad for dave. >> the "today show" is adding a fifth hour to cover this. >> that show will be on until midnight until the next day. kathie lee griffith, she'll have another show -- what's her name. >> gifford. >> she'll have a show until the afternoon. what's interesting this
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shargel guy says he is anxious to cross-examine letterman. >> it's [ inaudible ]. >> is that what it is about or an egomain aclooking for a show. >> i think he wants a show. >> he needs a sex tape. >> now that carrie prejean and sarah palin will get a show and shargel will get a show. but i have a show. i already have a show. >> like "three's company" it will be great. >> thanks very much, you guys, very nice to have you here. we'll be right back.
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black friday is cupping and we'll all be out charging our credit cards but for the 25 million who are compulsive spenders it is every day. how do you know if you are a shop-aholic, you spend so much on home furnishings you lose the house, you have a problem. here to talk with me about it are plus angelica's distraught mother, lisa. thank you all for being here. >> thank you, joy. >> starting with terry. how do you know the difference
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between a person who likes to shop a lot, you know, or a shop-aholic, what's the difference, really. >> like any behavior, drinking, eating or game belling anything in moderation is fine but when you begin to get obsessed with the behavior, when there's negative consequences aattached, that could be financial, stress, or debt, loss of time, arguments with family or loved ones about it, and -- and just sometimes people literally do run out of room to put things, then you're talking about a behavior that is compulsive and pathological. >> on the one hand you are talking about somebody who collects a lot of stuff and has the house filled with stuff. on the other hand, if a person can afford to buy stuff, why are they a shop-aholic if they have the money to pay for it? >> they still may be. you have functional alcoholics who go to work every day and seem just fine but for everybody, it may take a different toll.
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a shop-aholic may well be able to afford what he or she is buying and may even have the space in their home to store it all but again looking what is really driving it you will often find there is a driven kind of emotion. an emptiness or self-esteem issue or their lives are usually out of balance. their relationships might be lacking, they might be again losing time and energy in other directions of their life. but, it ultimately is up to that person to decide when they've had enough. >> moving to our other guests, a clip of angela from we tv's "secret lives of women ". >> after i go shopping the receipts will pile up. like i have to empty it out because it's so bulky, you have no idea how bulky it can get all the receipts, these are from the last few months, only the ones i've kept. >> that's a lot of receipts you've kept there. >> yeah >> what is it you like to buy, angelica?
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>> i don't discriminate but i like to buy everything. >> what's your favorite thing? >> boots. >> boots? how many pairs of boots do you have. >> i'd have to say 35 or more. >> 35 pairs of boots. >> i really never counted but have a lot of boots. >> terry what's up to the boots? >> well, i happened to watch that segment on women's entertainment tv and i think you had mentioned to the camera crew that boots seem to give you a sense of power. and what i find is a lot of people are shopping to get power and that's a very important thing for us all to feel, empowered but can i ask you, angelica, how much is enough? how much would be enough? >> enough is never enough. >> right. >> no, i mean, i don't know how much is enough. i just, um, i always find a reason for why enough isn't enough or why i need more or i have to go to this party and i need a new pair and boots are just, they go with everything, they are comfortable, stylish and make you feel comfortable
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and powerful. >> mom, why do you give her a credit card? >> i honestly had given it to her at first for an emergency. she wasn't working and i'm a real controlling mom, i just want to know they are safe, right. i got my discover card. they were nice, offering a nice powder and like, you know -- and i said, i'll get one in her name. >> you mean, the card was offering a nice pattern? >> yeah. yeah. it was like a monet painting by jane seymur, so like i want one if each of them. >> you were attracted by the card. >> yes. yes. >> now you know where i get it from. >> i gave them one and instead is go gas for your car and god forbid an emergency, any emergency, that's it. just for an emergency. >> ali, let's talk to you for a minute, what's your favorite it thing to buy, we know she's into the boots, what about you? >> really, i buy clothes mothly but i just did purchase a new house, so i have been shopping for couches and wall decor and
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comforters and things for my dogs. i like to buy things for my family and the people i love, too. >> we all love that, what's wrong with that, terry, come on. >> ali, by the way, hello, you and i have met before. >> hi, terrence. >> i hope things are still going okay with you. you've been in recovery for a while. >> i have. >> are you finding yourself sliding back into over shopping and over spending? >> hey, terry, i'll ask the questions! this is not a therapy session. >> oh, i thought it was, okay. >> we'll do that later. >> sorry. >> go ahead. i'll give you this last one. go ahead. >> so if what you're asking buying a home is a wonderful accomplishment, can we afford it? hopefully and of course how we fill it up and how quickly we fill it up everybody has different values but i think we need to be careful what we've seen individually and collective in our society people biting off more than they can chew then actually having to give up much of what they've worked hard to
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buy and filing bankruptcy and having home foreclosures. >> yeah. >> so, we're living in a new age where we have to kind of really kind of come to grips in reality with, you know, want versus need. >> how much in debt are you, ali? >> right now, about $17,000. i was $20,000 about a year and a half ago. and i have been able to pay some of it off. but -- >> i don't know how people pay those credit cards off. i read somewhere they are up to 29% interest rate. >> right. >> you'll never pay it off. you have to pay it off. >> it's either bankruptcy -- either bankruptcy or never, you know, continuing to pay these bills, pay these bills, pay these bills. just don't get a break. >> ali, why do you think you compulsively shop like that, what is it about yourself? >> i think that i am self-conscious. clothes make me secure with the person i am. i feel better. i feel equal to the other people in the store. i feel great when i'm able to walk out with just as many, if
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not more bags than the person next to me. i love hearing the total is more than the person before me. it's definitely, you know, a lot of it's being insecure with pie self. >> and angelica, you have your own card right now your mother said your bill came and it's over $400. >> right. >> that's what i hear from my spice. your parents are out of work and you aren't working who's going to pay the $400. >> um, i plan to get a job to pay that off. >> where? what kind of a job. >> at the mall. >> like an alcoholic going into the bar. you can't go to the mall. >> now you understand my problem my fires job was at armani exchange at the ma and my entire paycheck. >> i love -- >> i actually wasn't a big fan but bought stuff because i bought a discount and you had to wear the clothes for a uniform so i can't wear the same thing over and over again and i spent my check there. >> i used to tell her, take your check and save and economyize.
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put some in savings and checking, no, i'm like where is your check, um, i used it for. what? i have to buy clothes because they want me to look good and wear their clothing. >> a very pretty good and likes to look good, i don't blame her buff you've got to get a job s. this a female disease like diverticulitis. are men not shop-aholics? >> men have this problem, as well. almost as many men have this problem. they may buy different things. there are men who buy clothes and things like that, too but i've worked with a lot of male clients who maybe spend too much on computer, electronic equipment, sportswear. >> big items so not wasting their money on tiny earrings and things but go for the big stuff. >> men can buy noo cars they can't afford or fancy vacations or go out to eat to much or entertainment. can overdo it, too. >> what's the worst case of shop-aholic do you know and do i know that person?
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>> i don't know if you know. certainly we heard recently about nicklaus cage, since we are taking about men, in the news recently about his multi-million dollar spending sprees, very kind of interesting behavior. i've worked with a few clients one man in particular i've been working with on goingly for a couple years who bought about $200,000 in computer equipment. he was disabled and not employed. he's got a wife and a child with special needs. and then when he got done with the computer equipment, he went on to the next hobby which cost tens of thousands of dollars. a lot of times people are looking -- >> i want to hear that in the next segment. >> well yeah. >> we want to talk about what really causes this a little bit, okay? >> sure. sure. >> stay right there. more when we come back.
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shopping is definitely like getting your next fix. it simulating to me the same kind of things that a drug would. it's definitely a high for me. >> that was shopoholic ali owen on mtv's "true life" ali, shopping is your drug, isn't it? >> it is. >> how does it feel? does et file like you just took a drug? >> um, it does. talking to people that have done drugs, it, to me, has the same feelings. you know, i think about it when i'm not shopping. i get nervous about it. it takes over my entire thought t. ruins my relationships. it ruins -- it literally ruins everything around me when i go shopping, then i feel great. it's a short high and then as
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soon as i'm done, i'm back down to the low because i realize i didn't have that money, i shouldn't have spent that money, what am i going to do? how am i going to pay my bills? and then i've got all these, you know, things in front of me that are a constant reminder. >> and do you wear them? >> um, some of them, i do. a lot of things in my closet still have tags on them from years and years ago. >> really? >> i'll take things, i'll sell the clothes back and then take the money and go shopping again. >> kind of like a gambling addiction in a way, terry, isn't it? >> oh, yeah, it is. >> the way she describes it it sounds a little bit like drugs and alcohol, a rush that you get. >> oh, absolutely. it's a lot like it for some people. >> what are the underlying reasons, do you think of a shopping addiction? >> i think actually ali noted she's had challenges with her own sense of self and insecurity and self-image. i think a lot of people are vulnerable. it's a bottomless pit. if you don't know who you are or feel good about who you are you can focus on your image in terms of looking, good have all the
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latest brands and a bottomless pit that drives you until you figure out where did that lack of self-esteem and self-worth come from. >> it's really a hard one to deal with because it's out there. >> yes right. >> and slogans like when the going gets tough, the tough go shopping and one of the tempt stores has a new, what do you call it like an advertising campaign going on and the shopping bags say "want it, want it" like, you know, come on in here and spend your money, you know? so they're like drug dealers some of these department stores. >> they are, they are. >> basically. >> it's a legalized drug deal, you know. >> yeah. angelica had mentioned also wanting to feel powerful or feeling empowered and we know that in her family life over the last few years parents have been out of work, there's been family illness and a lot of crises and probably left her feeling a lot of feelings and people can use shopping to escape to help them feel good and sometimes because of all these arguments that you've been having with your mother, lisa, sometimes in an
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nard ver tent way we kind of looking for negative attention, which is better than no attention at all. i would advise both of you maybe to get together as mother and daughter and go somewhere for the whole day that doesn't involve being around a store or a mall and try to connect with each other. >> that's a hard one because mothers and daughters like to go shopping together. >> there have to be other ways. >> pedicure, a facial. >> some way to connect. some way to connect. >> go to a musical or something. >> is he making any sense? >> i don't know because part of my credit card bill this month is manikrurs and pedicures. >> how about a museum, see paintings? >> her mail is personal and i'm not supposed to open it, but yesterday a bill came and i honestly i was dying to see if she controlled herself, i slit it occupy and, oh, my god, 466 dollars, mannicure and pedicure
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like three times a month. >> how often can you get a mannicure and pedicure. >> once a week. >> a pedicure, one every three weeks. >> i do that, also. but you have to have the money, you need the money it pay for it. let me explain, that's the bottom line of this conversation, darling. if you have the money, you can do it. if you don't have the money your mother is not going to pay for it. >> joy, do you sit there and think about that manicure and pedicure weeks before you get it. >> yes, i do. they give me what they call a spa pedicure and i'm in heaven but i can afford it, i can afford it. >> a lot of shopoholics can't afford it and not until a crisis happens, somebody in their family dies, they lose their jobs, their hours get cut an illness not until something like that happens they realize my spending habits are out of control. but what makes a shopoholic different from every other american is that it takes over
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our every thought. it ruins our relationships, it ruins ourself-esteem. >> an interesting dilemma. and you said, the doctor, i think, terry said it's got something to do with control, that you feel out of control like an anorexic very often you will hear that about them. is there any similarity? >> well, yes. i mean, all addictions are similar and eating disorders in particular from what i know about them i'm not a specialist, a lot of times they will feel a lot of control over relationships or circumstances in his or her life and the focus on eating or binging and purging or calorie intake. >> yeah. >> or thinness or whatever, it becomes an all-consuming obsession and in their mind they can control that little part of their life. and likewise with a shopoholic, if for a moment at a time i can buy something and look perfect and project this image and feel like i'm on top of the world but what we know it is fleeting and illusory.
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>> like an antidepressant in many ways. >> frankly it is what the advertisers want us to view it like we're buying an experience, like we're buying a feeling and also that we'll be afraid if we don't buy this item we won't be keeping up with the joneses or our image. >> there is that element the advertisers enablers and the parents enabling the children. >> the parents, too. >> what should they do, terry? what should they do? we don't have that much time left and i'd like you to cure them now. >> i don't know about cure but what they can do is honestly admit they have a problem and see the writing on the wall if they continue this it is is going to just get worse. they are young enough and smart enough now to really get serious help before it becomes engrained, get counseling and go to groups like debtors anonymous or go to our website -- read books, medication, find friends and family who you can do things with that don't involve going to the malls or going to the store. there's got to be other interests. >> the problem right now because of christmas, what are you
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supposed to do, you want to buy gifts for other people. >> yeah. >> should they not buy gifts for anybody this year sfinchts i wouldn't go that far but a lot of ways we can be creative with our gift giving, a simple gift card, make a gift, we can bartter, for each other. a lot of americans are going to have to scale back out of necessity. i encourage people not to go to the stores very much during the holiday season, it's a real frenzy and we have two young ladies here who have a lot of potential. >> thanks, everyone, back in a minute with eliot spitzer's manhattan madam, talk about an addiction.
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remember the disgraced new york governor, eliot spitzer? he's giving a speech on ethics. ethics is the keyword here. with me to discuss this is kristen davis, not the kristin davis from "sex and the city" although she could if that city was albany. she's the madam who provided spitzer with his escorts, and she joins me now for an exclusive interview. the guy goes to harvard and he's
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giving a clek lecture on ethics up there. you wrote a letter objecting to all of this, tell me about it. >> initially i wrote a letter just addressing some very basic questions, i can't attend the conference because i'm on probation so i can't leave the city of new york. >> you were going to go there? >> i would have loved to. >> maybe just to hear it? >> maybe ask some questions, no one replied to my letter so i posted it on my blog. >> why is he doing this? is he trying to meet women or what? >> there's big money in the public speaking circuit. it's sad that he has some influence over the future ethics of any harvard student, of any student in general. i mean the event sold out. it's obviously an economic decision by harvard to increase their bottom line.
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and he sold a lot of tickets. i see some merit. however, if year wing to listen to this man, why don't we talk about the real issues? >> which are? >> corruption by a public official. obviously we can learn something from a public official who committed and covered up his crimes and who lied to the same public he promised to protect. >> we went around making examples out of the same escort agencies he was frequenting. hypocrisy is his middle name. that's what you're ticked off about. >> obviously we can learn something from him if we talk about the real issues, how we as an american public can question our public officials and talk about how he made some mistakes and how he can rectify them and let's not talk about wall street, why does he want to talk about wall street? the biggest ponzi scheme in the history of the world happened under his nose.
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>> he's a dog, but he's a smart dog. the guy is not stupid. >> no, no, of course. i'm sure he's getting paid rather well. >> he doesn't need the money obviously. he had a very big bill at your agency. >> sure, sure and his father is a billionaire and he bought his way out of jail. >> how often did he use the services that you provided by the way? >> weekly. >> was he a big tipper? >> he was actually a good tipper. >> why is it that the johns never get into trouble? >> johns never get into trouble because in this country we promote inequality amongst the sexes so the women get in trouble and go to jail. and the men -- we've historically never prosecuted the john. >> what do you say to people who say that's the pot calling the kettle black, in your case? >> hey, i served my time. >> what do you do now? what do you do now? >> i'm working on some non-profits to promote legalization of prostitution. >> i love that. thanks, kristen.
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thank you for watch watching. good night, everybody. good night, elliot.
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breaking news tonight. live, florida. exclusive enclave, ponte vedra coast. a high-powered money man comes home to find his young wife with covergirl good looks, the mother of his two little girl, gone. vanished. left behind? a handwritten ransom note demanding $50,000 in exchange for the life of the wife and mother, quinn gray. she allegedly suffers a horrific ordeal of kidnap, abuse, sex attack. tonight, ponte vedra, after
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$50,000 cold cash is paid, cops close in to nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. kicker? it's mommy. mommy, herself, along with her brand new boy toy. that's right. they faked it. bye-bye, good times. hello, hard time, mommy. >> it's just been the most
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incredible ordeal to go through something like this and in a 24-hour period to be brainwashed so significantly that you actually believe that your husband is trying to kill you or that he's not trying to keep you from being killed, i should say. >> right. >> i don't know. it was just the craziest situation i've ever been in in my life. >> did you try to get money from your husband? >> of course not. if i wanted $50,000, all i would do is take it out of the bank account. and tonight, live, maine. police say a beautiful 2-year-old baby girl in extreme danger. baby hailey snatched from her own home after her young mother brutally attacked. every minute counts. tonight, where is baby hailey? >> an amber alert has been issued for a 2-year-old girl in sanford, maine.
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police say 38-year-old gary traynham took his little girl hailey after a violent assault on her mother. police say the pair disappeared from sanford a little before noon and may be in the lakes region of new hampshire. traynham is believed to be driving a green 1998 dodge 1500 pickup truck with maine plates. good evening. i'm nancy grace. i want to thank you for being with us. live, florida. exclusive enclave, ponte vedra coast. a high-powered money man comes home to find his wife, the mother of his two little girls, gone, vanished. left behind? a handwritten ransom note demanding $50,000. after the $50,000 paid in cold cash, the cops nab the alleged kidnapper and accomplice. kicker? it's mommy. mommy, herself, along with her brand new lover. that's right. they faked it. bye-bye, good times. hello, hard time, mommy.
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>> took me from my home. and that's all i have to say. i would never try to take money from my husband.
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>> did you have a sexual relationship with osmanovic? >> no, i did not. i don't know him. >> why would someone make this up? >> you wouldn't make it up because it's the truth. >> straight out to frank powers with wjxt. frank, this is a little hard to believe. what happened? >> well, the latest on this case, nancy, is that just this morning, reid gray, who investigators have called the victim on this case, was on national tv. he's standing by his wife. he believes she was kidnapped. and then because of her mental disorder, bipolar disorder that she bonded with the suspect and began to participate in this plot to extort $50,000 from reid gray. now, there are a number of times when they tried to arrange a ransom drop of the $50,000. it never worked out. and she was released before any of the money was exchanged.
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>> take a look at these photos. she looks like heather locklear. she's absolutely beautiful. okay. to mark williams, anchor and reporter, also joining us out of the florida jurisdiction. mark, tell me the background. this guy is extraordinarily wealthy. they live there on the ponte vedra coast. why did she need money? she had money. she had his money. >> oh, she had -- she said she could go to the bank and get as much money as she needs. her husband, reid gray, is a health care executive, makes over $1 million a year. >> wait a minute. didn't he found the company? >> yes, he did. plus, they live in a $4 million home right along this exclusive seaside resort. she found this gentleman, this 26-year-old boy toy, as i call him, by the name of jasmin -- >> whoa, whoa, whoa, wait a minute. did you say 26? >> he's 26. >> okay. go ahead. >> hey, i can't make any of this up, nancy. you know that. my credibility rides on everything.
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jasmin osmanovic. he and quinn gray cooked up this scheme to extort that $50,000. it was never delivered. obviously, there's audiotapes of them making love. >> take a listen to quinn, the alleged kidnap victim, along with boyfriend on tape. >> straight out to the lines. beverly in new york. hi, beverly. >> caller: hi, nancy. my question is, i want to know why would her husband be standing by her, if she wanted
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to blow his head off, as she said on the tape recording? >> yeah, i noticed that. take a listen to what he just had to say in the last hours. >> i believe in all my heart she was kidnapped. i also believe at some point, i'm not sure exactly when, she believed that she needed to be a part of this. it was hard for me to understand when or why that happened. devastating, to say the least. but i am standing by her now because i believe that she has a mental illness, and that's why we are here. >> why don't you think this was just another episode of infidelity? >> that last such episode in june led to quinn going to rehabilitation, alcohol rehabilitation, and it was that point where i made this decision that we would end this marriage unless she went forward with this. that eight weeks before this abduction were some of the best eight weeks we've ever had in our life. i couldn't imagine for a second that she would have made this up.
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>> okay. i guess he didn't know about the 26-year-old boyfriend. you just saw sound from nbc's "today" show. we are taking your calls live. let's answer beverly in new york's question. after leading police and her own husband, much less her two little girls, on a wild goose chase with all these tearful calls about how the husband's screwing up the money and they're going to kill her, telling police she was sexually assaulted, beaten, brainwashed during all of this, why, dr. janet taylor, psychiatrist, joining us out of new york, why is the husband standing by her -- oh, by the way, everybody, she's gone to a rehab facility in st. simons island, georgia, which is really a resort. now the husband is claiming she's bipolar. okay. dr. taylor, give me a crack at it. >> well, he described himself. i think he's in shock. he's in denial. everything he's been holding on to. his whole world is crumbling around him.
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also, he does apparently believe he has a bipolar disorder, and he said he didn't want to split the family up if she indeed has a mental illness and needs him. but i have a hard time believing that he can stand there and listen to her say "why don't we blow his head off" and he's still standing right by her. it's hard to believe. >> to ellie jostad, our chief editorial producer. everybody, we're taking your calls live. mommy is now in a rehab facility. what about it, ellie jostad? what more can you tell me? >> as you heard her husband say in that "today" show clip, she got treatment this past summer for alcoholism at a clinic in minnesota. now she's at st. simons by the sea. she was actually released on $200,000 bond. it was a million. her attorney asked for it to be lowered so she could get this mental treatment. she's there right now being evaluated. don't know when she'll be able to go home. >> out to the lines. donna in maryland. hi, donna. >> caller: hi. how are you? >> i'm good, dear. what's your question? >> caller: well, i wanted to
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tell you i've been with you and following your pictures on the beautiful babies. >> they just turned 2 this past wednesday. >> caller: i know. my birthday's this month, too. they're beautiful. i noticed in the audiotapes that she identified three men. she said it was three men. did she give any description on the men? and did any of the descriptions fit maybe one of the young lovers? >> back to you, ellie jostad. didn't at one point she ask police to go back and look at the video footage, the surveillance video of -- what was it? a target or a sam's warehouse or -- >> yeah, it was a publix. she actually -- and this was after she'd already been interviewed by the police. she called them and said how come you guys haven't gone to publix? my kidnapper went to publix at one point. he should be on surveillance. and they said, well, you've actually never mentioned that until now, but we'll do that. they got the surveillance tape and sure enough, she says there's him, there's the guy on the tape.
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i'm just reading this ransom note. it goes on and on and on about, well, you can only get this amount out of this bank, but they don't care where you get the money. she goes through about starting with $7,000, that's good enough for right now, but they want $50,000. to wear a tight t-shirt when he comes to drop off the money. but it doesn't end there, does it, ellie jostad? after all of that, after all of that, the dad, the victim digs
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up the $50,000 cold cash. he leaves it next to a jones stone cold crab -- some crab shack, and then somebody else picks up the money? >> what happened is the alleged kidnappers apparently lost patience with the husband. they started dealing with the kidnap victim's mother. she tries to drop off the money at joe's stone crab. a bunch of guys, some german exchange students from valdosta state actually pick up the money instead. they think it's drug money, they freak out and call the police. >> it sounds so melodramatic. let's go out to the lawyers. joining me tonight, felony prosecutor eleanor odom. tamara holder, defense attorney out of chicago. peter odom, defense attorney out of atlanta. eleanor, listen to this. this is her writing her mom. she's got plenty of time to lounge around and write ransom notes about herself. "drop the money out of the car. don't look back, mother. don't look back."
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all right? it's like sodom and gomorrah. don't look back. you'll turn into a pillar of salt. it goes on and on and on. she does this to her mother. "put your cell phone in the mailbox and drive without it. they won't hurt you or me as long as everything goes to plan." what about it? >> you know, nancy, this is the craziest thing i've ever heard. but that doesn't mean she's crazy. and what i'd look at is her competency at this time all this was happening. does she know the difference between right and wrong? and clearly from what we're hearing she does. >> out to the lines, jennifer in pennsylvania. hi, jennifer. >> caller: you know, nancy -- >> hi, jennifer. i think you're there. do you have a question, dear? okay. can't hear. let's go to angela in illinois. hi, angela. >> caller: hi. >> hi, dear, what's your question? >> caller: my question is how do they get all these audiotapes if she was already kidnapped? >> okay. how did that work? out to you, mark williams.
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>> the boy toy, the 25, 26-year-old boy toy, decided to make audiotapes of them making love, and then later they talked about -- >> you know, i hate when that happens. >> -- getting their story straight. >> right in the middle of you trying to kidnap yourself and get $50,000 cold cash, your lover makes tapes of you having sex. now, that kind of threw a monkey wrench in the whole thing, mark williams. how did they surface? >> well, they surfaced when -- >> he got arrested? >> yeah. he delivered the tapes. he says, listen, i don't want to get nailed on a kidnapping charge. so he gave them the tapes, said listen to them. and that's why they were released. part of the investigation. >> no, i did not. i did not know him. >> why would someone make this stuff up? >> you wouldn't make it up if it was the truth.
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it's the longest-lasting plugins ever. get freshness that won't fade away for 60 days. ahhh! with plugins lasting impressions. and yes, it's glade. s.c. johnson, a family company. he started kissing on my ear and my neck, and -- >> how did you react at that point?
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>> i just -- i kind of reacted just still at first, you know? a little bit still. and then i started to act like i enjoyed it a little bit. and he started to kiss me and -- >> and what was your frame of mind at that point? what was going through your mind when this was happening? >> my frame of mind was we're going to have sex. and i'm going to have sex with him, and that's all. yeah, all my clothes come off. >> okay. >> yeah. he helps me, but i'm helping too. and i acted like i enjoyed it. and i'm not going to lie. sometimes i almost did. i knew i wasn't going to -- to resist him. so i tried to make it the best possible. you know? and he would just over and over and over and over and over and over again, and sometimes i would -- i would say what he wanted me to say and do whatever he wanted me to do. >> there was a mole on the back of his neck. have you told anybody else that? >> i knew he was moley. he had moles. you know, but not a lot. >> did you see him with no shirt on? >> yeah. there was nothing distinguishable. his nipples weren't very dark. >> okay. why did you see him with no shirt on?
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>> because we were -- we had sex a lot. >> sheriff's office 911. what's your emergency? >> my name is quinn gray, and i was kidnapped, and i'm not sure where i am right now. >> she's definitely participating. i'm not sure after four days of being with this person what she believes and what she doesn't believe. but i agree with you. there are times when i just want to shut it off and be finished with the whole thing, but i have to remember that there are many times when i heard his voice and him saying things that i believe he knew i would hear this audiotape at some point as well. >> if you go under the assumption that she didn't know she was being recorded, that makes her sound guilty. >> as guilty as can be. it's probably the most hurtful, devastating words i've ever heard. i think of my children. i think of myself. and i think of how this is going to affect their lives going forward. and i know at that point when i
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heard that, i was so shocked that i knew something was wrong. i knew something was definitely wrong. that person that i knew so well would go to the extent of talking about that. >> that last sound was from nbc's "today" show. let's go back to the lawyers. but first, to lisa lockwood, former police detective, author of "undercover angel." what do you make of this? an entire faked kidnapping where she tried to rip off her husband of $50,000. forget about the two little girls. >> have you ever heard the saying "hell hath no fury like a woman scorned?" that's what i believe this is about. this is a woman who was after her husband. revenge. >> for what? >> to make him suffer for his affair. >> okay. hold on just a moment. let's backtrack. tell me about the affair. >> he allegedly had an affair before she went into rehab with a spanish woman. and these were written in a few of the letters.
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it was disclosed that she was envious of this and this is her way of getting the money back. if you watch her physicality and her tonality in those interviews, you can clearly see this is a woman who is extremely calculating and was deceptive. >> you know, that's a really interesting take on it, lisa lockwood. i didn't really put that much stock in the whole theory of the husband's affair. but maybe you're right. with us, lisa lockwood, former police detective, author of "undercover angel." marc klaas, what's so disturbing to me is that while she was leading her husband, her children, and all the police on a wild goose chase there were legitimate kidnaps, legitimate children missing calls that were not getting the cops' full attention while they were dealing with the heather locklear look-alike. >> that's absolutely true. there's three points i'd like to make. number one, nancy, if alcoholism or mental illness were a justification or excuse for committing crime, then we'd have to open the doors of every
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prison in the united states and let every one of those inmates out. secondly, we don't have kidnapping for ransom in the united states. it was mentioned by the husband in this that it sounded like a bad movie plot. well, it is a very bad movie plot. notwithstanding hollywood, these things don't happen. the last time there was a fake ransom like that was in the jonbenet case, another long, rambling note which we know was fake because the little girl was dead in her -- in the basement. now, the real concern here, though, for people in my industry is the whole idea of faking kidnappings. what that does is it creates cry wolf scenarios so that the next time something like that happens there's a cynicism on the part of the public, or very well could be a cynicism on the part of the public about whether or not -- >> i agree. >> -- that kidnapping is an actual kidnapping or not. not to mention the resources that are taken away from legitimate situations.
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>> back to the lawyers. eleanor odom, peter odom, tamara holder. peter odom, what about her telling the cops? and this is obviously a voluntary statement. "i tried to make the best possible sex ever over and over and over again." then she goes on. and this is a new one on me. i've heard a lot of descriptions of a lot of perps. she describes his nipples. peter? thoughts? >> nancy, in the recordings that we're hearing, you know, it was the perpetrator, the so-called kidnapper, maybe hoax kidnapper, that decided what to record, not the victim in this case, ms. quinn. so you have to wonder what's going on during the times when he's not taping, himself. we've heard of stockholm syndrome, where sometimes kidnapping victims actually -- >> wait, wait. put him back up. >> -- identify with kidnappers. >> peter, there's no kidnapping, so there's no stockholm syndrome. okay? there was no kidnapping. that was her with her lover. okay?
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you do get it, right? she was never kidnapped, peter odom. >> this case still has questions all over it, nancy. >> could you explain to me, peter odom -- >> he had some power over her. he had some power over her. he had some power over her, but we haven't explored it yet. >> i heard you the first four times you said that. to you, tamara. maybe i can get it out of you. since there's no kidnapping, how could there be a stockholm syndrome where you start to identify with your kidnappers? >> i don't think there's a stockholm syndrome here, but i do think that the woman has mental problems and -- >> let's talk about that. just one moment. >> -- and alcoholism -- i'm sorry. >> dr. marty makary, physician and professor, public health at johns hopkins. let's explore tamara holder's theory. we know she went into rehab this past summer for alcoholism at a very ritzy rehab. nothing wrong with that. but what about the theory she had an untreated, undiagnosed mental disorder? that's what the husband is saying. and then in the last hours he says, yeah, she's bipolar. she's never been diagnosed or
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treated for that. >> i'm glad you're making the distinction, nancy, between behavioral problems and psychiatric illness. psychiatric disease, those are problems with pathways in the brain that result in behaviors that have a clear pattern. paranoia, schizophrenia, behaviors which meet clear-cut diagnoses. addiction, manipulation, extortion, those are not psychiatric behaviors. and they don't fit any of the criteria for known psychiatric conditions. >> out to the lines. kim in georgia. hi, kim. >> caller: hi. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: i would like to know is it possible that she's going to be charged in this case? >> oh, kim, in georgia, she will be charged in this case. what i don't understand is how they let her go to a fancy rehab instead of sitting behind bars. that's what i don't get, eleanor odom. >> i agree, nancy. first of all, let's start with false report of a crime, and then we'll go on from there. some of her terroristic threats and whatnot. but you know she's going to be
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charged as an accomplice to this fake kidnapping. >> we are taking your calls live, but i want to go back to frank powers. frank, what more can you tell me about the case? is the husband still standing by her at this hour? >> he has remained steadfast in her support, nancy. >> and to you -- >> go ahead. >> go ahead, dear. >> the reason that we see a lot of interest in this case, this case has really gone global. you also have a lot of pressure from the law enforcement community. we were talking about that earlier. they spent about $200,000 that weekend, both state, local, and federal officials, looking for her. and they're not too happy about that. >> to you, mark williams, why did the judge let her go to a fancy posh rehab at st. simons island? >> well, they thought probably -- more than likely that was the best thing to do in this case since the issue of her possible bipolar disease cropped up. so they put her there. >> okay. that's complete b.s.
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everybody, as we go to everybody, as we go to break, happy 100th birthday to georgia friend of the show, miss sybil marsh-bateman. a faithful member of mikado baptist church, proud mother of three sons, billy, ken, bobby. mrs. bateman never misses a show. happy birthday, miss sybil.
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police issuing an amber alert for a missing 2-year-old girl taken by her father this morning in sanford, maine. police believe 2-year-old hailey traynham was taken from her mother's home by 38-year-old gary traynham. authorities say the two may be in the lakes region of new hampshire. >> straight out to dennis hoey,
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reporter with the "portland press herald" and "maine sunday telegram." dennis, this is the only amber alert out of the state of maine. what happened? >> that's correct, nancy. it's the first amber alert ever issued by the state of maine since it was implemented seven years ago. what we do know is that maine state police and sanford police issued an amber alert around 5:00 this evening for 2-year-old hailey traynham, who was abducted from her apartment by her biological father, gary traynham. the parents, gary and lisa gould, are the biological parents, but we're not certain whether they're married or not. and they're still searching for mr. traynham, who is believed to be in the lakes region of new hampshire. >> stacy newman, our producer on the story. stacy, what more can you tell me about the little girl? >> this little girl, 2-year-old baby hailey, cops believe she is in extreme danger tonight, nancy. why?
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because her mother was violently assaulted moments before she was snatched and taken by her biological father. >> okay. back to dennis hoey. dennis, i know this is the only amber alert out of the entire state of maine. and it is a parental kidnap. a lot of people don't take that as seriously as other like stranger abductions. what do we know about the father, dennis? >> we know that the father, nancy, is her biological father, but i'm pretty certain right now from what police have been telling me that he is not married to the victim, lisa gould. that's the mother of the girl. he lives in kennebunk, which is a town near sanford, with his parents. and he has a child, a 12-year-old child by a prior marriage who does not live with him and his parents. >> so he doesn't have -- whoa, whoa, did you say him and his parents? >> he lives with his parents in kennebunk. >> he's 38 years old and he lives with his parents? >> correct. >> okay.
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he does not have custody of either of the two children, and we know there was a brutal assault on little hailey's mother. and then he took the girl and left. out to marc klaas. he is the president and founder of klaaskids foundation. marc, what do you make of it? and why is it that when we have a so-called parental abduction it's taken less seriously than stranger-on-stranger abductions? >> well, it's not really taken less seriously, but it's thought that the children are not in nearly as much danger as they are in a stranger predatory type of a situation. but i have to say, nancy, that if this woman was violently beaten at 11:00 in the morning it makes no sense that they would wait almost six hours before activating the amber alert. that tells me it's a failed alert for the simple reason that children who are murdered as a result of an abduction, 76.2% of them will be dead within the first three hours. this should have been called immediately. >> how does that break down to parental abductions?
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same stats apply? >> yes. absolutely. children that are murdered as a result of an abduction. that's across the board. >> and you know what else, marc, at some point the kidnapper, if he believes that cops are on to him, could very well kill himself and the child. they never just kill themselves, marc. never. that never happens. they kill the mother, they kill the child. they throw the child off a bridge when they're about to be apprehended. i believe that's why cops think this is so dangerous. >> yeah. i completely agree with you. they need to find this guy, and they need to find him fast. they should have gotten this alert out much sooner than they did. >> what do you think the problem was? >> i have no idea. but basically, the way the amber alert is established and set up in this country, there is this built-in delay. the original intent of the amber alert in texas in 1996 was very different from the thing that
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it's transmorgified into here now in 2009. >> i want to go out to dr. marty makary. dr. makary, we have seen this scenario play out so many times. and you on your end at the hospital, what is your concern tonight? >> well, there are certain characteristic injuries that this person's at risk for, and dehydration and malnutrition compound the potential risk of those injuries, causing long-term problems with development. we're talking about learning disabilities down the road. we're talking about long-term problems that could come from a major trauma, psychologically and physically at this time. >> dr. makary, that's if the girl lives through this ordeal. what i'm concerned about is what this guy's going to do when he realizes cops are on to him. let me tell you what i know about this. gary traynham, age 38. he's 5'11", 230 pounds, balding brown hair. can we show a picture of him, liz? a picture in full since we're describing him right now. hazel eyes, dark goatee, which is not pictured here. maybe in the lakes region of eastern new hampshire.
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we believe he's driving a '98 green dodge pickup truck with a maine license plate 8629, n, nancy, b, bermuda. 8629 nb. the tip line, 207-324-3644. after a brutal attack on the little girl's mother, the child is reported missing. out to the lines, laura in florida. hi, laura. >> caller: hi, nancy. >> hi, dear. what's your question? >> caller: first of all, i wanted to say your twins are beautiful, and we watch your show every night. >> thank you. thank you so much. and thank you for calling in. what's your question, dear? >> caller: what is the status of the mother? is she going to live? >> good question. what about it? dennis hoey joining us from "portland press herald" and "maine sunday telegram." what do you know about the mom's condition? >> the mother, nancy, is being treated tonight at a hospital in sanford for her injuries and is expected to recover from her injuries and be released sometime later tonight.
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>> so she's still in the hospital? >> police would not describe the nature of the assault other than that it was a violent assault. >> okay. we know cops are saying this child is in extreme danger. she's only 2 years old, shoulder length blond hair, blue eyes. take me off the screen. let's show her in full. she weighs over 35 to 50 pounds. father allegedly assaulted the mom brutally and took off with the little girl around 11:15 a.m. today out of sanford, maine. tip line, 207-324-3644. please be on the look out. a '98 green maine dodge pickup truck. 8629 nb. very quickly to tonight's salute the troops. texas friend angela gaffner saluting her son, army specialist corey gaffner.
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>> out of texas, specialist corey gaffner's mom and so proud of my son for representing our country. stay strong and be safe and i want to let him know that i love him very much. ninininininininini
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