tv Washington Journal CSPAN January 26, 2016 12:50am-1:34am EST
center for medical progress, the organization behind the videos, spoke with us on "washington journal" last week. let's take a look. host: david daleiden is the founder of center for medical progress. what is that group? guest: it is an organization of citizen journalists. we monitor and report on medical advances with a special emphasis on bioethical issues that impact human dignity. host: you are known for the so-called planned parenthood tapes. guest: i am. host: are you antiabortion or pro-life? guest: i am a proud pro-lifer. host: where did you get the idea of interviewing planned parenthood people about fetal tissue? released the time we the first tape, it had been about 15 years since the issue of baby parts trafficking had been part of the national discourse.
there was a seminal exposé done on that particular topic in 1999-2000. unfortunately, it kind of got buried in the mainstream media at that time. i first found out about that about five years ago. i was really struck by this paradox i feel is at the heart of it. on the one hand in our country, the baby fetus, their humanity is not considered to be equal to our own in order to be totally protected by the law from being killed by abortion. but at the same time, it is precisely that humanity of theirs that is completely identical to our own that makes them so valuable for scientific extermination and makes planned parenthood and their business partners and researchers hunt after their body parts like very treasured. -- buried treasure. host: are fetal tissue sales legal? guest: for profit body parts sales of any kind are not legal. host: cecile richards, because
of the tapes, this is what she had to say. [video clip] >> planned parenthood has been in the news because of deceptively released videos by a group dedicated to making abortion illegal in this country. this is just the most recent in a long line of discredited attacks over the last 15 years. the latest smear campaign is based on efforts by our opponents to entrap our doctors and clinicians into breaking the law. and once again, our opponents failed. to set the record straight, i want to be clear on four matters. first, using fetal tissue in life-saving medical research is legal according to the 1993 law 93-4 and the senate based on recommendations from a blue-ribbon panel created under the reagan administration.
second, currently less than 1% of planned parenthood health centers are facilitating the donation of tissue for research. third, indo centers donating fetal tissue is something many of our patients want to do and regularly request. finally, planned parenthood allah sees not only comply with but go beyond requirements of the law. the outrageous accusations leveled against planned parenthood based on heavily doctored videos are offensive and categorically untrue. host: david daleiden, cecile richards, president of planned parenthood, was talking about you. guest: she was. one of the main talking points for planned parenthood has been the videotapes are heavily edited or "deceptively edited." in this case, she came out with what they really mean to insinuate that we have doctored
what is being said. , we haved of the day been more transparent than any mainstream media organization in the way these were produced. we have put out full conversations with top level everyone can compare the full conversations to the highlight some reversions we present and see for themselves --summary versions we present and see for themselves. throughout the four points she mentioned, not once did she deny any of the statements on the video are made by planned parenthood senior-level leadership. we did not put those words in their mouths. those are their own words captured on video for everyone to see. host: did it hurt your legitimacy to go in under false pretenses and edit the tapes in the first place? guest: i don't think so. every news report you will watch on tv, even a live broadcast, is
in some way edited or produced to make it more easily presentable for the public. i think most people realize that. most americans think undercover work is important part of law enforcement and journalism. it is an important part of life and discourse. host: how did you get involved in this issue? guest: with abortion specifically with the baby parts issue? host: however you want to answer that? ? guest: i have probably an eight or nine years of experience doing investigative journalism type work with a focus on the abortion industry and planned parenthood. i have encountered the baby parts issue specifically about five years ago for the first time. i do think there is something about it that is particularly disturbing to people and also
throws into stark relief our underlying -- the underlying conflicts the regime of abortion on demand we have in america now presents to some of our core american and human values of human dignity and equality. i am a proud millennial. we grew up in school learning about the history of slavery in america and how there is a dark stain on our history where people used to be part -- bought and sold in our country. you turn around and see companies buying baby parts from planned parenthood. even sometimes turning around and selling entire fetal cadavers, and people are still being bought and sold in america today because of that. i think that is a contradiction to the values we hold dear and something most americans don't support. host: you are a graduate of claremont mckenna college in california. are you from california originally? guest: yes. host: is this a religious issue for you? guest: i don't think so.
my friend and a representative recently authored an op-ed in "time" magazine. thehe end of the day, pro-life movement and our position on abortion is not a religious movement and is not necessarily a political movement. this is a movement about love and compassion for other human beings and for the smallest human beings, for the human fetus. in most states, fetal homicide laws are on the books. in almost every situation, the human fetus is considered equal to another person. , andnly exception for that most constitutional scholars would agree is a big equal protection violation, the only exception is in the case of legalized abortion. host: david daleiden, are you in favor of outlawing all abortions? of,t: what i am in favor and i have to be a little careful because we don't do model legislation or legislation advocacy.
behink the ideal law would similar to laws on the books before roe versus wade. host: david daleiden, center for medical progress, is our guest. final question. i have to follow up on that. what were those laws? guest: the laws in most states before roe versus wade criminalized doctors who would perform abortions, by which they meant feticide, anything that would intentionally kill a fetus. there were always exceptions for the life and health of the mother. it is interesting. those laws were made exceptions -- made clear that women would never be prosecuted in those situations. it was criminalizing the conduct of unethical medical providers who would do abortions. host: let's take some calls.
joseph is calling from fort lauderdale, florida, on our independent line. joseph, you are on with david daleiden. caller: good morning to both of you. let me start off by saying i am a father of two. i raised my teat of children by myself. their mother had mental issues. i raised my kids by myself for 16 years. life, valuey entire the life of children. i wanted to ask a question. i did not get an answer from the lady earlier. if a murder is committed when a lady is pregnant, you get charged with two murders, right? if so, what is the difference if you have an abortion? isn't that murder? host: david daleiden. guest: sure. my understanding is i think in thereimately 40 states
are fetal homicide laws on the books that do make it equally criminal homicide if you kill a fetus in the process of an assault on a print woman or you kill a pregnant woman and kill the woman and unborn baby, that you can be charged with two murders or fetal homicide. the bourneral level, life protection act also provides the same equal protections to unborn children in all stages of gestation. host: diane is in tennessee. she is a democrat. please go ahead with your question or comment for david daleiden. caller: good morning. incest ands with rape? you said you are right for life. there are babies starving. people have been killed who are already here. you are not saying anything
about that. there are little children everyday killing children. do you say anything? no. you are sitting up there now. you don't have to carry that child. thank you very much. host: david daleiden. guest: sure. for the first question about rape and incest, i think everyone has a lot of compassion for any person who is a survivor of asexual assault. thing a pregnancy in that situation creates is that if there was a way to do an abortion without killing a baby, i think nobody would have a problem with what is going on. at the end of the day, that is the problem. i don't think anybody wants to punish someone whether they are a woman who is a survivor of an attack or a child completely innocent. nobody wants to punish them for something that is not their fault. as to the second issue, my
concern and other pro-life americans' concern about unborn children compared to our concern for other children in bad circumstances, i think if we cannot have compassion for and respect for and protect the smallest and most innocent children, there is no way we are going to be able to effectively take care or have that same concern for those who are in more difficult -- less-than-perfect situations or less than innocent situations. i think compassion begins with the very smallest and the ones who are so tiny there's nothing they could do to oppress us in any way. if we cannot have compassion for them, we will not be able to have compassion for bigger people. i believe there was a third issue, but i have forgotten it. host: i wrote down the first two as well. i apologize. guest: the third was something along the lines of i am a man
and will never carry a pregnancy. i was a fetus. i have the child of a crisis pregnancy situation. my parents got pregnant with me their junior year of college and got married after graduation. there were people who said i should be aborted. i'm here today because their voices did not win the day. i think at the end of the day, abortion -- is not totally correct to say does a woman's issue because it is a human issue. host: is there any middle ground? that is the question we asked donna crane earlier. between the pro-life and pro-choice position? guest: i think there is middle onund in a political sense what sort of policies we are going to have. i think it is clear from pulling data and testing the attitudes of the ever -- average american
that most americans are not in of abortion being practiced in situations where it is most commonly practiced. most americans are ok with abortion to save the life of the mother or in cases of rape or incest. in most other cases, most americans do not favor abortion. most americans are in favor of no abortion after three months of pregnancy. that means no abortion in the second or third trimester. i think there is a lot of room for commonsense policies like that where we can move forward as a country. unfortunately, we are largely prohibited from enacting a lot of those policies because of the row versus wade supreme court decision that persists even though in many ways the precedent is unsettled and we will see interesting things happening at the high court in their future. --in the near future. for the past 43 years, there has
been an institutional barrier for democratically grappling with that common ground. host: lara is in pennsylvania, republican line. go ahead. caller: thanks for c-span. i want to applaud david for your courage. you have had to go through amazing, scandalous remarks about what you have done tearingng the unjust apart of unborn babies. but doing it in a specific way to harvest their organs. for planned parenthood to say youhave doctored the tapes, did not put numbers like the liver is going to get so much, manipulating the procedure to get the highest value is disgusting. the person who said what about those innocent,
babies who were the product of that, they are not rate this -- rapists. their fathers were rapists. i know two people who had repressed -- rapist fathers whose mothers in them up for abortion. you should not have to abort the baby because of the way it was conceived. guest: it has been interesting that it has been six months since cmp started releasing the first undercover tapes. planned parenthood has yet to tell us how much money they have received from companies like stem express in exchange for harvesting fetal tissue. they have yet to explain why one of the chief medical officers was endorsing a stem expressed advertisement for financial benefits to the clinic. they have yet to explain why their senior director of medical services was talking about flipping a baby on ultrasound to harvest more intact fetal organs.
the talking point from planned parenthood that the tapes are edited, by which they mean to insinuate they are doctored, is a disingenuous talking point in an attempt to distract what is on the tapes because they cannot deny what is there. host: since you started releasing tapes, are there more tapes coming out? guest: there definitely are. there is a large body of footage from the national abortion federation annual meetings under a tro in a court case now, they temporary restraining order. host: is that because of the planned parenthood suit against your organization? guest: that suit predates the planned parenthood suit. it is a little different but a lot of similar allegations and issues in play. there are more planned parenthood tapes as well. there is no injunction or tro against those so some are being prepared for production and presentation. host: did you participate in any
of the undercover interviews? guest: i did. host: were you with the woman from planned parenthood or somebody else? guest: in most of the tapes we have released so far, i was present for those interviews as one of the undercover actors. there are a few older tapes were i was not one of the actors. but for most of them, i was present. host: adam is in easton, pennsylvania, independent line. i amr: i would like to say amazed in 2016 we are still having this debate about what someone can and cannot do with their on body. i find with groups like your guest, they are more than willing to tell you what you can and can't do, but as soon as you tell them what they can and can't do, they are up in arms. we have to understand women have a choice to do what they want. if i had told this gentleman what he could do or could not do with his body, i'm sure he would fight me tooth and nail. we have to understand abortion nowadays is not something that
is accepted as a whole but sometimes is a necessity, and it is your right to have access to that necessity. ultimately, what does it matter to these people that are fighting for this issue? host: adam, sorry. thought you were finished. david daleiden? guest: it is interesting. if you choose to look at abortion only as an issue of what someone does with their own think you are necessarily going to be ok with the for-profit sale of baby body parts because those just part of the woman's body anyway? and so there should not be a problem with on the hearts and lungs and livers of unborn children. i think what the guest is saying is out of step with what the majority of americans believe. all of usircumstance, have limitations on what we are able to do in a society where we
live together and have to get along. the really extreme pro abortion position he is staking out would permit abortion -- abortion up to nine months of pregnancy, which is permitted in states like colorado and new mexico. it really cuts against the grain of what the public is comfortable with. i don't think that is a winning talking point or issue for the abortion industry. in please guy tweets ask david daleiden why not one federal, state, or local agency has found wrongdoing at planned parenthood. guest: i don't know that is correct they have not found wrongdoing. it is correct to say there have not been indictments filed or full on prosecutions yet. there are ongoing state, federal, and local criminal investigations. we will see what comes of those in the next year. host: when will we get more from
these court cases? are they in the discovery mode right now? the lawsuits. guest: those cases are at different places right now. it is a little complicated. they are probably not likely to yield anything quickly. i think the timeline is going to be stretched out for both of them. whetherainly i do think more information comes out through the select committee congressional investigation or through some state and local criminal investigations or through the discovery process and litigation process of the lawsuits ongoing, i think you will start to see in the next year a lot more primary source document type evidence corroborating a lot of what was on our videotapes. host: what is posted on your website? posted are the full media release videos cmp has put out so far, both the summary highlight versions and
full footage of those conversations that went into the highlight versions. we also have a document vault that has a lot of primary source documents we received from whistleblowers and others who work inside the abortion industry. also, that we gathered at different industry trade shows. there are a few other pages of a blog with press releases and contact forms. things like that. host: how are you funded? guest: we are a nonprofit, tax-exempt recognized by the i.r.s. we are funded by donations from the public who has been generous so far. host: is there a timeline for any tapes to be released? are they all under restrictive order now? guest: the only tapes under restrictive order of those specifically from the national abortion federation's annual meeting in 2014 and 2015. the national abortion federation is the trade organization of
abortion providers in the united states. another, thatly would be 40% of the footage we gathered in the two and half years of the project. we have released approximately 20% of the significant footage so far. there's probably another 30% of footage unreleased now. we are working on producing that now. host: would we see that in the next couple of months? guest: definitely. host: db, democrat, go ahead. caller: i am an old lady. i have had experience with this issue, personal experience. what strikes me is women have the power, and that is what the men resent, that women have the power to decide whether they want to have a child or not. i think they should have the power. i wonder about this fetal tissue stuff. does it have any value? these youngdn't
girls giving up their fetal tissue, shouldn't they get the money? thank you. host: phoebe, are you still with us? caller: i am. i know it sounds like a nazi. but on the other hand, when i had my abortion, the someone wanted to buy the body parts, i would have said fine. i needed the money then. i had my abortion a long time ago. you don't really have to go to a doctor. that is what i learned because there were not anyone i did it myself. host: before roe v wade? caller: absolutely. it was a most in the last century now. it is a shame. it is a real shame women are put in this position of having to go to some higher authority when they are taken care of themselves at a very emotional time. host: david daleiden, what do
you hear from her? guest: i'm going to strike out a little bit on a limb on this one. orhink people watching listening this conversation can hear some of the pain in her voice talking about that experience, talking about all of the stigma that goes into unintended pregnancy, some of the fear, the need for a solution to try to get out of that situation. i think that is something we all need to be honest about and need to have a lot of compassion for that kind of situation. it is not just men. pro-life men and women and men and women across this country, i don't think we resent but are horrified by the idea that any person can choose another person lives or dies. and that any person could go on to sell the body parts of that person who we are choosing to kill or not kill. at the not just rhetoric end of the day when we talk about the humanity of the unborn
baby and what that means. you want to talk about the value of fetal tissue for research or extermination. what about the value of the human fetus in all of his or her integrity as a human being? you can say harvest the brain, keep the brain intact so you don't destroy it. planned parenthood will get $75 that specimen. $700 andess might get some researcher will use it for a study. how much more valuable with that beef it was kept in the child and the baby was allowed to live and contribute to society? i don't think any of us are doing and have ourselves a service if we deny that real, physical reality. i think that comes through in the pain you hear in the voices of people like phoebe who have been through that experience. there is an expense we have to be honest with. otherwise, we will never heal and be comfortable as a country. host: it was 43 years ago the
roe v wade decision was decided by the supreme court. this past fall, c-span did a series of landmark cases that this country has faced. we finished up with the roe v wade case. we are going to re-air the program tonight at 630 -- 6:30. it looks at the history and the result. 6:30 tonight on c-span. richie in butler, kentucky, republican line. caller: how are you doing today? i want to thank the gentleman for what he is doing. of this newpart generation of christian leadership is worrying more about selling the next book on how to feel good about these things. 78% of americans claim to be christians. yet they sit silently while all these things go on. but they say it is the law of the land.
we are the law of the land. in a democratic society, we vote. we don't allow people to stand by and say that. ministers today sitting at home worrying about the next lines they are going to read on the pulpit next week. they are not on the steps of the supreme court fighting these things. thank you for listening to me. keep up the good work. maybe the christians of america will finally wake up. host: anything for that caller? guest: i hear a feeling a lot of american share now, that there is a crisis in leadership. maybe in spiritual leadership. i am a catholic and a follower of post francis -- pope francis. pope francis has spoken out several times about the issue of fetal tissue trafficking and has had strong words about that. i think it goes hand-in-hand
with his emphasis on the importance of compassion and mercy, even for people in difficult situations, and showing that by accompanying people in difficult situations. america is a great enough country that we have been able to put men on the moon. i think we can find better solutions to unexpected pregnancies than the violence of abortion. host: patrick tweets in to you, cmp is partially funded through 501 tax-free status but fights against the use of tax money for planned parenthood. guest: i am not sure i completely understand the question or objection. it is true cmp is a 501(c)(3). it is true we think planned parenthood is engaged in a lot of unethical and illegal activities that ought to be investigated and prosecuted and perhaps remedied by a loss of federal taxpayer dollars. i don't see a contradiction in those two statements.
organsf i donate my after death, is that selling body parts? guest: no, donations are not a sale. what is supposed to be allowed, the way things are supposed to work, is you are allowed to donate your organs or tissues. nobody is supposed to be making money off your body parts. that is where the problem comes in. host: mike is calling in from akron. caller: i'm glad you and i have two things in common. we are both catholic and pro-life. we differ in one main way. my definition of pro-life may not be the same as your definition of pro-life. as an historian of the catholic church, i realize the catholic church is one of the reasons why so many europeans came to this country centuries ago because of its repressive ways towards the people. thank god the catholic church has changed his attitude in many ways. i think the pro-life as somebody
who i don't care what your views are on abortion or guns as long as you don't go around killing other people. you may not be the best example of pro-life, but you are pro-life enough for me. here is my question. i know a catholic. he and his wife go to church every week. they would never have an abortion but they believe a woman has a right to choose like me. if my friend went into a burning building, same people, two kids in his arms, could you look him in the eye and say i am pro-life and you are not? guest: sure. i don't think it is pro-life to be in favor of abortion on demand up to nine months of pregnancy, selling the body parts for profit afterwards. i don't think that is pro-life according to anybody's definition. i think if you support activities like that, it is a huge contradiction to any other area in your life when you're
claiming to respect human beings or value their dignity. i think it puts you on a slippery slope as to whether you're going to be able to continue to extend that same compassion to other people. it is a deliciously vague phrase when people talk about the right to choose because we are talking about a spectrum of nine months of pregnancy, all kinds of different development of the unborn baby going on, and all kinds of different factors and outcomes that can crop up off of that, like selling body parts for profit afterwards. i get a little impatient with a lot of the word games coming from planned parenthood or their allies because i don't think it is very honest. host: jenny is in tallahassee, florida, democrats line. caller: yes. i have a proposal that is a middle ground proposal and also a question for you. order toal is that in
make all of this argument moot, why don't we enact a law that we identify the fathers of each of these children that women are pregnant with? that the fathers will be required to pay half of the medical costs and the cost of while theythe women are carrying these babies, that they pay half of the cost of raising these children. and the children be required to be raised at the same level the men and women are living. they also are required to take care of any medical costs and costs of anything that involve
most children while they are -- those children while they are growing up. and also, my question to you is, do you have any children out there that you are not taking care of? host: that was jenny in tallahassee. mr. daleiden. guest: that is a great comment and question. i think her proposal is excellent from a policy standpoint. i think it is something people could creatively build on. as to the question, i don't have any children. i think the broader take away from her question and comment, it is interesting to me that if you insist on making abortion only a women's issue, you're kind of making unintended pregnancy only a woman's problem and obviating any kind of male responsibility for those situations even though there is
a lot of mail responsibility for those situations, or maybe we should say irresponsibility. host: have you ever had a friend who wanted to get an abortion? did you accompany her? did she talk to you about it? do you know anybody who has had an abortion? guest: i know a lot of people who have lots of different expense of abortion in their lives. people who are survivors of abortion, people who have had abortions themselves, people who have considered abortion. definitely. i have yet to meet someone who this really honestly say was a happy part of my life and something i grew up wanting to do. nobody treats it that way. i think that says something about what it really is. host: the path you have taken in this professional path you have taken, what has it done to you in a personal way?
take that question and see what you can do with it. know, i say you sometimes i am the product of the public school system in the state of california, which my kind of surprised people. gravew up learning about human rights injustices of the past, slavery, the holocaust, and also the brave people who fought against them in the civil rights movement and the underground railroad. i remember always thinking, wouldn't you want to be one of the people? if you lived in a time like that when something like that was going on, wouldn't you want to be one of the people who stood up and said this was wrong and shout it from the rooftops -- shouted from the rooftops? if you realized it was going on today, wouldn't you want to be one of those people who is different? that kind of brings me to now. is in aransas pass, texas, republican line.
please go ahead with your question or comment for david daleiden from the center for medical progress. caller: yeah. it has been my experience that no matter what i believe, the truth had the power to change what i believed. every time i have run into the truth with a powerful belief, i got knocked down hard. i want to ask you, is there any aborted babies that will be children brought to jesus? host: a religious issue for him, a christian issue for him. guest: i guess i am not sure if i know how to answer or that i'm qualified to answer. i am not a priest, and i am not a spiritual authority. i don't know that i can make that judgment. every singlek aborted child, and i have encountered aborted children in planned parenthood's we visited,
it is a really different, moving experience. some planned parenthood medical directors have written about it themselves and that is something we share in common with them. every single one of them is someone who was a human being, who was valuable exactly as they were. we would have loved them whoever they would have been. she tweets into you that you even stall someone's miscarriage video pretending it was from planned parenthood. guest: that is not true. i think she is referring to some b roll footage filmed of a born alive infant at approximately a 19-week abortion. one of the interesting things i learned in the course of the undercover work we did, talking with lots of planned parenthood medical directors, lots of different abortion providers, is that in the practice of second trimester abortion, it is not unheard of and not uncommon that
you sometimes, depending on the patient's individual characteristics and how they respond to the procedures, it is not uncommon you might have a precipitous delivery before the procedure begins and have the fetus come out intact and you have a born alive infant on your hands. it does not happen every day or every time. it is something that is not unusual. i think that argues for a lot more strict oversight and scrutiny for the abortion industry. host: last call for david daleiden comes from todd in beachwood, ohio, independent line. caller: i would like to know if you would consider this as a possible alternative to people even getting into this -- the situation of being in an unplanned pregnancy. if the government and planned parenthood in your group worked to build and intensify programs in the taxpayer-funded neighborhood public schools that
taught the actual cost of bringing a child -- bringing a pregnancy from conception all the way up to the year 18 in various counties. for includes medical costs going through the pregnancy, the cost of raising a child in the different areas where the individual may be, and giving them incentive to learn what it to get the kids in the schools to understand that as well. our country is built on the strength of our families. our country is built on the strength of the direction of our families. if you want to keep people from getting abortions, ideally you want to keep them from getting into unplanned pregnancies. that is the best way -- host: i think we got the idea. guest: i think that is an excellent proposal. i think you might have difficulty getting planned parenthood on board with that because the model does not encourage a lot of communication
about those issues and strengthening of social ties. planned parenthood is about breaking down social ties and seeing people as individual automatons whether or not those connections. it does remind me of a talking point some people put out to say planned parenthood does more than any other organization to prevent unintended pregnancies because it puts out so much contraception or birth control. if you look at planned parenthood's own numbers in their annual report, according to their own estimates, the number of abortions they prevent per year is around 200,000. but they do over 300,000 abortions every year. planned parenthood does more abortions than they prevent every year. host: david daleiden, are you >> on the next washington journal, we talked to sean higgins, senior writer with the washington examiner.
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