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tv   Discussion Focuses on President Trumps Infrastructure Agenda  CSPAN  January 30, 2017 10:08am-11:20am EST

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uminros d ijan ladad rptsn e rdofheewrede. bo cditeal ppo spdi aa naa r b crti. inddio n t n esenisoid oer tlln frtrtu pn d s e demoatal foowg ititthr n trli dlapros. we have very few specifics, these issues will come to the forefront as campaign promises run up against reality. now the questions we must address is that will haphazardly throwing taxpayer money at pork barrel project really help an economy mired in debt with relatively low unemployment or is it possible to generate effective investments in truly worthwhile projects in a fiscally responsible matter.
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joining me today to discuss these very important issues is a distinguished panel of transportation policy analysts. first we welcome chris edwards, the director of tax policy studies at the cato institute and editor of downsizing government.com. he is a top expert in federal and state tax and budget issues and before joining cato, he was a senior economist on the congressional joint economic committee. he has testified to congress on fiscal issues many times and his articles on tax and budget policies have appeared in the "washington post" and many other major newspapers. also joining us is robert puentas, a president of a nonprofit think tank with the mission of improving transportation policy and leadership. he was the senior fellow at the brookings institute metropolitan
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policy program. robert has worked extensively on a variety of transportation issues, infrastructure funding and finance and city and urban planning. he is a frequent speaker to a variety of groups, a regular contributor to newspapers and other media and has testified before congressional committees. finally, mark describener is a senior fellow at the competitive enterprise institute where he focuses on transportation, land use and urban growth policy issues. these include infrastructure investment and operations, transportation safety and security risk and regulation, privatization and public finance as well as emerging transportation technologies. he free currently advised policimakers on these matters at the federal, state, and local levels. we'll start off just with a conversation style panel, so panelists should feel free to chime in, but please avoid talking over one another as we have gotten a bit tired of that over the last two years. i think we've heard enough to get started just based on some of the proposals we've heard from the incoming president as well as congress. i'll jump right into it with a question from mark. you have written a good bit about the state of the nation's infrastructure assets and do you think that it's a fair characterization to say they're really crumbling and if we don't
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spent a trillion dollars, will the bridges all collapse? in other words, do you think that a major spending plan is kind of the best way to go forward or is there a better option? mark: i think the problem is or maybe not a problem but that our infrastructure is not uniformly crumbling. you have problems in many local areas and that's true. as for federal highways, we have seen the number of structurally deficient bridges steadily decline, pavement smoothness has increased. when it comes to the federal side of things, things aren't aren't necessarily looking that bad. now we're going to have reconstruction needs for the
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interstate highway system, a lot of money over the next two decades. really where our biggest problems lie are in the municipal realm. you have transit systems with tens of billions of dollars in maintenance backlogs. you got crumbling municipal streets. the problem is, especially when you're talking about federal policy is, our federal programs really are not very well equipped to deal with these local issues. one thing that folks at the federal level, members of congress and the administration should look at is perhaps revisiting how we do federal aid, that means allowing more of these funds to be used for routine maintenance. that might be a good idea. president trump the other idea emphasized a fix it first strategy, that brookings has talked about when rob was still over there. yeah, we do have problems, but it's important not to lose sight of the fact that many of these problems are local and the feds are not necessarily the best folks to address them. >> if i could chime in here, if you look at bridges, for
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example, there is 600,000 bridges in the united states and the federal highway administration says that about 60,000 or 10% are structurely deficit. politicians often mention that figure 60,000 as if it was a huge catastrophe. as mark noted, the share of structurally deficit has fallen over the years. as an economist, the number of bridges is not zero. because if to eliminate all of the structurally it deficit bridges, enormously expensive, hundreds of billions of dollars. you want to get to a point where additional investment more than pays for itself in terms of creating additional benefits. the federal highway administration says that those 60,000 structurally deficit
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bridges, they're not at risk of falling down. they're not unsafe. they should be updated. there is an optimal rate that we should be updating them. i don't know what that is. you have to think about this in terms of optimal. another example of this, i think the texas transportation institute says that traffic congestion costs americans about $150 billion a year in lost time and productivity. that sounds like a lot of money. but again the optimal amount of congestion on the highways is not zero. it would be enormously expensive. we would have to spend trillions of dollars to get the amount of congestion on the nation's highways down to zero. maybe we should reduce it, maybe we're at the optimal now, i don't know. it's a complicated question that you have to look at both of the engineering and the economics to get to the right answer.
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i think part of the solution here is the more we move infrastructure out of the government to the marketplace we can get marketplace feedbacks and response to find out which highways are in the most need of fix-up and expansion and which aren't. the problem when you're in the government realm, the money isn't allocated efficient because the government doesn't work based on market-based indicators. it works on other factors such as formulas and pork barrel politics. >> as mark mentioned and chris alluded to, a lot of these problems are more local in nature and while i know your organization has done a lot of work looking at what is going on, not at the federal level, a quarter of expenditures, can you give us an overview of what is going on down at the ground level, the local level of government? >> thanks for having me here
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today. i think that part of the problem, some of the comments is we don't define infrastructure very well. we think of infrastructure, we think of roads and bridges and transit. that's what most americans think about. infrastructure, there isn't an infrastructure right, there is transportation, energy, telecommunications, water structure are in the news and each are designed, governed, financed very differently. the federal role in each of those sectors is actually very different for things like freight rail. the federal government has a heavy regulatory part but doesn't fund. telecommunications is a lot of private sector, energy is private. it is really different. there is a definitional problem we have to get sorted in this country. it's added to a lot of confusion and misunderstanding of what the federal government should be doing. in the realm of that, a lot of the interest, a lot of the excitement and things we have seen around the country, particularly over the last 10 years or so is what is happening
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outside the beltway from city, state and metropolitan areas that aren't waiting for the federal government to pass their trillion bills, they're doing their own things. they're doing gasoline taxes in their own states. eight to 10 states passed their own gas states, red states, blue states, everything in-between. they're going directly to the voters having them approve ballot measures. consistently year after year we see 70% of the ballot measures pass, some is for routine stuff and some major investments. a lot of money by any major. you need 2/3 of the vote in l.a. -- >> sales tax. >> sales tax increase. that's a very popular method for raising transportation revenues. you see that in lots of other places. the point is as we have this conversation on the national level and these big proposals, very ambitious, very far reaching for infrastructure on
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the national level, city, states and metropolitan areas are not waiting around, they're doing their own things. >> absolutely. chris, you walked about the markets and when you have these things decided kind of by the governments, there aren't always the right incentives in place. the most talked about proposal would use tax credits to provide public companies an incentive to invest in infrastructure. in what areas do you think are most right for privatization. the trump plan with tax incentives is kind of a good way to help investment in those areas? >> to belt on what robert said, over the years, i have learned from all of them on the issues, i'm appreciative of that. to build on what robert said, you can see with trump the
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confusion of what is infrastructure, what is properly federal, state, local, and private. the plan put together by two of his visors last fall that would provide tax credits for i guess private investment reflect the sort of confusion that we're not specific in their plan. were they talking about the local infrastructure or private or federal. we need to start at the beginning to find out what is federal responsibility and what is properly state, local, and private. what has gone on, we have seen a revolution around the world in many countries, dozens and dozens of our trading partners moving more and more to private sector involvement on infrastructure. you can see this in airports, in highways, in sea ports. the other countries in the
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1980's figured you could get better allocation of capitol if you moved infrastructure to the private sector. you would get more efficient construction, fewer cost overruns and management in construction by moving to the private sector and more efficient management in the private sector. government infrastructure is often mispriced. for example, we tend not to use congestion pricing on our highways. federal water instraw structure,
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suided erha bn somees. th a gngrey ll its t tht s ntti. buhamit setnge n peme he is gion. spe e pbls he thet a e afc coesonth a dng l wh icos to thnogan invaonanwoinwi puicndriteecrs th clde aar wrwe ulsa se turn usg pive rves ware ruin o oti, oorweer pase. ov he- e e nng t im sonmo qstn ea. erer tnkouorgnxcelle prenti. --anyofoanxcle prenti. i ariteiten andn veorn mef es tenogi. erali ot ectc
11:17 am
gr iofn lkbo i th suaon itsosbl e o ciliti ilition. snddsf e veme awe afuin mit ird tma i haen aneflectnsn at sje? omy stguhean? ndceib] >> o ergexrtha wrtea t ou ts. i inthe tmeou oprtitwi t n adniraono oktom ofhereartefmso e er sto hareelsiipin we ndlslhier ith la aintriostti t mo fwa.
11:18 am
wh i ceso eleri id, ths,reof peis b im tist iner opratinstnt d eneyecr ts congdmistratn. a rht thk u mh r ing . ifouiljo minivg pal ha. i inweadn ceen coerti tay [alae] le im stakenthe ll seanicsuid s plseeefr traluh d icarndndskny esonyoig he left er thk u. [ctis pyghnaon cae teitco. 17 [ctiinpeord te tialapong stut whh rpoib f i caiocoenanacra. sit ncaprg
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