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tv   Quadriga - Coalition Talks Collapse Disaster for Germany  Deutsche Welle  November 21, 2017 5:30am-6:01am CET

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immobile and free. d w e learning course because german made easy. a low and a very warm welcome indeed to a special edition of quadriga coming to you from the heart of berlin and germany is today facing an unprecedented crisis after talks on forming
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a new coalition government following september election broke down it was one of the smaller parties in the four way negotiations the business friendly free democrats under their leader christiane. that polls. saying there was no shared vision and not enough trust to form a new government at all leaves chancellor angela merkel's future hanging in the balance she was aiming to begin a full term in office now though all the talk is of possible fresh elections and in the meantime a long period of damaging uncertainty for germany and europe so our question here on our quadriga special show is coalition talks collapse disaster for germany and to discuss that question i'm joined here in the studio by three excellent guests beginning with venice on a journalist and author and one of the outstanding commentators on german politics and over four decades of. also with this is alan posner welcome back alan he's a commentator for deep. that's newspaper and
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a very warm welcome to two old rick hammond from another berlin based day leave the taps for talks site. thank you both for being here on this or spacious or an auspicious day i'm not quite sure that i was on a plane is in a state of shock according to one newspaper headline this morning do you share that assessment yes or no certainly the political would be political class and this isn't a shock situation but germany is not in a crisis germany as such is doing very well economically not politically at the moment but overall germany is not in a crisis situation we face we are facing a domestic political crisis for sure one that we have not had in our history and the word the password right now is uncertainty or to go home and you were noting immediately as fan i said we're not in a crisis no sir no sign of crisis on the rise and that's all well no because i'm
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going to makeover chances the in charge and whatever how she lets my forgiveness is remain the chancel it's only the question hala through germany whether we have this experiment of a minority government which which would be new for germany but i think it would work over there we have new elections but then again i think america will gain in votes and will be stronger than before so i'm i just agree that we are not in a crisis. this is a surprise is a good start you know most german commentators this past week have been asked the question will will the talks be broken off is any stage leading to fresh elections or whatever the next in iraq is going to be we're going to have to talk about that they've all said no no it's not going to happen and then you guys are sitting here and saying it's the most normal thing in the world we didn't say that ok you just know it is not normal but you know just as you said in the in this film at the beginning the problem of the liberals they if there is. party and indeed they are
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not fit to rule because they didn't have enough people who fit for government they didn't have a program that would have lurked and to they didn't have enough technical knowledge in order to be part of the government so what we don't have a general crisis what we have is a liberal party that's not fit to rule ok if you know the opportunity very shortly to talk the liberal today. there's going to talk of the market from the other side first of all your assessment where are we today well i want to come back to you said about we sitting here saying on this crisis there is of course a crisis of the chattering class i think this is the third time we've been wrong you were wrong about brakes that everyone must have never going to happen around about trump never going to happen and i personally was wrong about it because i'm on record saying of course jamaica is going to happen it's just a question of finding the right compromise formula and and the question is really why did the liberals pull out and it's not one second yet for you go into why the liberals pulled out just explain for our viewers the use of the word because we
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have to explain it time to jamaica what's it all about ok well. let's really look at jamaica means a coalition of the christian democrats right wing conservatives the as you put it business friendly free democrats i'm not sure they're really business friendly because business is very we journalists have to tag them with something when i call them liberals a liberal story did ok and the green party i think they're all three of them fairly business friendly but different aspects of business but so this is the so-called jamaica black green yellow as the flag jamaica and this these coalition this coalition is just for in the pot right before even starting before even we started to mention and we all thought it was going to happen these were exploratory talks before real talks or government could be formed and then what then going to be given the approval of the parties involved at some stage in the very distant future yeah absolutely. talks went very much into detail and i think they had two hundred
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sort of points to tick off and they you know they got they got incredibly far they had agreed basically on the question of immigration the greens were ready to accept a level upper limit to immigration where they had always said never never no no no the. the the party in the right the bavarian christian christian union. the conservatives they were ready on the other hand to have some kind of more green policy closing down coal power coal fired power stations which the greens want and you know and everyone really thought well the liberals would sort of be in the middle and they all sort of slipped through but they decided this is the interesting thing they decided last minute no we don't want to govern and i don't think it's not because they can it's anyone can you know found if they don't want to and the reason is i think they want to go in the direction of
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a populist national democratic party and take the voters of the far right a f d who got thirteen percent there also elections your friends in germany and the immigrant anti you and there's been sort of christian lin the leader of the of the pro-business free democrat party the broads has been making sounds like this for some weeks now and i think his idea is i don't have to govern now i've got four years i've got eight years' time i'm a young guy i can build my party into the right wing formation to the right of i'm going to marco and the christian democrats and then i can join government with twenty percent of my belt in four years or an h. is that what he's aiming at. or we could all get all us agree yes i agree but it doesn't you know it's both true they were not fit to govern or to rule and at the same time he has this idea of becoming
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a national party i agree but with you completely but they would if they had gone and became part of the government they would have failed so that's part of the truth but the main question right now is the blame game was to blame you know and it was not a last minute decision. it was a decision that lyn obviously took weeks ago and then try to come out as the big hero last night but every bit i've everybody can see it didn't work that way he he wanted to get out and he wanted to make the statement i want to make this point and to use trying to force this government into new elections let's just we're talking about chris and let's just let's have a quick look at what he had to say let's go to let's get an impression go give our viewers an impression of the man himself because he has been widely viewed in german politics in recent times as a man of the future a charismatic political politician i was noting let's get
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a flavor of the man himself. we were being forced to cast away our principles and everything that we fought for over the years. we will not let down our voters by standing behind policies of which we're not at all convinced that. it's better not to govern than to govern badly so would you. tell us a little bit more about the man himself he's viewed very often as one of the most capable politicians in german politics is this a long term strategy that he has been involved with here and gauged him well yes he was part of the liberal party full quite a long time since he was to find something like that and what's more even though even even much younger so from a very early age onwards he was full time petition for the liberal party and what he saw in two thousand and thirteen was how his liberal party was thrown out of
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parliament because they had failed in government together with until america is dead and buried yet been buried in evil as the one who men is all on by himself as a one man show the research action of the liberals and of course he whole party is traumatised they hardly any of them really wants to rule again but i'm going to america because then they fear that they would again be thrown out of parliament they would believe they are actually being in a coalition with a bad time and time again so they are very afraid of lot but i'd like to say something about the strategy that. somehow sketched for the liberals i think it will not work if we have no new elections i think that it is true that the liberals could get some of the votes from the right but on the other hand many of their traditional voters who voted for them now again will leave for the christian democrats because for them it's no longer attractive to vote for the liberals now
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that the liberals have shown that they are no longer. ready to govern un to be part of the. cabinet so they will go to america so in the in the end you know that's what i think. not have more votes but he will have a different basis more to the right and i don't see what i mean i agree totally with your characterization of is i mean he is an incredibly charismatic guy i know him i meet him and i think i've met him cover time in you know in smaller groups and so on and he's just so different from the run of the mill liberal you know. he's just really quite fascinating i need is a kind of person you know if i had for dinner and have a really good time with i wouldn't want him to run the country will he lose votes no because the people who voted for the most the the traditional free democrat voter wants lower taxes that basically everything else they don't care about as long as tax is go down and he's promising that and i don't know none of the other
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parties want to lower taxes so they'll go with that and then on the other hand with his with his euro skeptic stance and with is skeptical sconce stance towards the greens and towards more green energy and so on he'll and towards immigration he will get a big slice of the of the far right vote so he could it could it could pay off for him it's all interesting stuff but the much more interesting question is where would be if you will go what will happen to them you know will the voters still support angela merkel and where will the city you end up. in fresh elections that is the crucial question today not where the f.t.p. is going. next let's just listen to what i'm going to medical have to say after the collapse of the coalition talks here we go to michael german chancellor. harm done by feel we've seen and heard a lot during these dogs. were very different styles of negotiating.
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it's biting in all sympathy the greens to some getting used to the free democrats were resolute. but we believe that we were on the right path to securing an agreement. i'm going to michael their accused of being pale and passive in the negotiations not by everybody there were some conservatives who said she had played a very strong role as a behind the scenes moderator where does she stand now what is her future you know even the green party set that angle america had been a good moderator of these talks so it's only the liberals who are not pulled out of the room try to blame and i'm going to makkah but it's not what happened it's just a blame game of blaming the about well what will happen to i'm going to mecca i'm very optimistic because if there was a new elections because it's not yet sure but everyone counts on them i think very
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many germans will vote for and the american and she will gain votes from almost all parties for example many. people who voted for the social democrats will vote for macca next time because of the social democrats refuse to go into a big coalition and want to stay in the position but why should i vote for social democrats who want to stay in a position that makes no sense if i want to keep i'm going to back in power the same something we disagree me and alan i think that quite a few liberals will leave kristin lindt not because it's true they all wanted to have tax reductions but how are you supposed to reduce the taxes when you end opposition it just doesn't work so those those who are somehow rational voters for the liberal party will now say well it's better to vote for america who is in power and to strengthen her in some coalition whoever that will be instead of voting for linda so in the end the christian democrats will have more votes than they had now
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the premise here is that there could very well be freshly law. actions that is certainly a possible scenario at this point in time however the german part of the german president the federal president frank by the time i has come out we all know and said that the policies that this isn't a collapse of the talks this is a breakdown of talks that the policy should go back to each other get back around the table until they will have to see what key in the end will actually say because he used a man who is in control of the process and he has to decide what will be next when it comes to fresh elections. but on the american future i'm fully agree but for different reasons he will be there because there is no alternative a lot of people in germany that we didn't have before this. time i know i know a single term you know well it's hard to let the get you know you love the design
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of these eleven and you live in this country for a long long long time and you know domestic politics and then please do answer who else all you or you know i mean this is that i mean when i'm for this is the way that i think a lot of a lot of the johns should be saying a lot of young people and other people even in this country would very much like new faces in politics but what is the alternative nobody can answer this really and as long as we do not have this new phase then who will stay it's as simple as that is going to happen are they going to be fresh elections. well. today is the day of uncertainty we cannot predict. absolutely sure the democrats said today they didn't they did confirm they will not go into
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a grand coalition ok so that's off the table where they want a new elections that's what they said today but what if they would say tomorrow or in a week from now it would then have to push out might introduce again as the candidate for the don't know if he just lost one election you know he's going to vary too but but but but does so for democrats they do have other phases they could be under they are not with the opposition leader no it could be the mayor of book shows shows that the shorts so they have alternatives and for the time being at least the christian democrats do not have a viable option what are you thinking yeah i'm thinking it's boring but i'm thinking the same but i don't know. you know i do think we need fresh elections before. i mean if if the president from father steinmeyer if he said you know this is not a collapse this is a breakdown that that semantics i don't see the difference between the collapse of
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the breakdowns me interpret saying what's the federal president ok but i just i just yesterday or the day before on sunday you told our newspaper that i was on talk that the jamaican coalition should finally get their act together and finish the talks and come to them successfully no one listen to him so why should they listen to him now when mr lynn has left the coalition so you know he can't go back he can go back and say oh i was wrong i'm very sorry i'm going to go. and and he certainly can't go back and say well look i thrown a temper tantrum now take me in but i want to get this that the other guys will say look you left you know and that's over i am comes to mind surely we're older if the if there are fresh elections we're all going to have to come back to this to make a scenario. because there are there are going to be six politics in the bundestag that's more than in the past but there is more than likely going to need or there's a real probability going to need for them to form a coalition that's the situation we're already in so you're going to be in the same
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situation as you were before but with less trust firstly we don't know that it's quite possible that sort of an immigrant's if they get rid of mr schultz as their leader and they could that they actually do gain votes because voters aren't rational if they were rational they would do as you said but they but they aren't so they might see themselves in a position to form a three way coalition with the ex-communist left wing party with the greens that was that's always been on the table as a possibility if they don't have a majority with you don't know what's going to happen after the next election they could be i mean if if that comes back with you know twelve thirteen fourteen percent he could start dictating terms from quite a different position you know this throw everything up in the end see what happens and i think that's the only only way out. let you know what i think that many.
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due to this very long period of debating it in like a coalition with greens and surf and christian democrats and liberals i think many germans are now some will. adapted to the idea that i'm like be a collision of the green party and the fish and democrats and i think that very many people in now after this long talk about john mica feel quite comfortable with this idea and it could be that if there was a new election people actively voted for as we call it black green. fully agree that it's good. i think a. lot of people you have to would you have to understand it's quite simple a lot of people around on the amount are almost in their d.n.a. that they want a black green coalition for many many conservatives exactly even within the c.s. you you have that try to germans like to call the natural next government yeah that
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could very well happen so what and the worst thing that could happen would be a minority government that would be extremely bad for germany it would be extremely bad for europe and for the rest of the world because a minority government would. government uncertainty and this is what europe cannot stand right now and therefore that would be the worst thing that could happen and i'm pretty sure it will not and there's a real danger that we're going to leave. home out in the cold he's come out and he said we want to lead europe with germany in the town and that was so familiar to us until recent times he wants to take europe into a stronger and more ambitious future in germany is saying oh well we are trying to form a government and i don't i mean he came out even last night with that kind of
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a statement he called that's what we hear even last night or during the night actually later all night long we're like oh yeah in the morning actually and to make sure that she will not form a minority. government because that would be very bad for france for his a bushman's concern in europe and. that would be the worst scenario could happen and i don't think it will happen. i mean where champagne corks must be popping all morning is in moscow of course because the one thing that moscow wants is to have europe divided and incapable of acting and this is exactly what we had we've been having. talks there on hold now as long as john you doesn't have a have a government we've got this terrible division within europe between east and west between the visit grad states of eastern europe who are anti immigration anti neo liberalism and basically anti any sort of liberalism and with the western european
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states with all these things that need resolving and there and there's no leadership from germany and no leadership for maybe four or five months so this is i mean you must be saying how could i be so lucky i get trump in america now i've got no government in germany britain is basically a government on the whole it's all going according to plan it's not like we're going on that if i mean what does he have of perhaps you know europe is. trying to find itself but doesn't have any advantage from that you know the union is in disarray surely you know but i mean that's but yet that might be i don't really agree but anyway that doesn't help him only because you have all you can say is europe is in disarray he want he can as you his destabilization program in ukraine for instance which make no mistake about it is designed to reintegrate europe yell transit is in the empire and there's no i'm going to america has been
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the person who's stopped him from doing that but you know i think that whatever result the german elections would have had could have had you know this ukraine problem but not. i have been attacked anyway by the europeans you know they are already resigned to the idea that it will go to russia we're running out of time again right so i'd like to ask ask each of you to tell me what the best case scenario is from this point in time. and i think fresh elections are unavoidable. and the outcome that you would view is the best case scenario than. my gut feeling tells me it will be black green politian it was my gut feeling and i will say i didn't come into the show feeling that that was germany's future maybe i'm beginning to be convinced by the prospect. i also think that we need fresh elections and i would actually quite welcome it if. the free democrats could
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again a whole lot more votes and then form black yellow coalition of center right coalition . thus leaving a strong center left opposition of the greens and the reds what you might call back to the future a little bit well i hope not back because that was the last black yellow color dish was a catastrophe but there's a different prospect he could he could swing it. well if this is not him then he would have races in government because as you said and it now wants to become very nationalistic maces even racist so i i do not think that a yellow black government with has turned nationalistic would be very nice. it would think they have an idea i don't think we can conclude conclude destro by calling a racist you know i just i think this is taking it too far but you can still hear that and he. wants to ok it's
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a bit sad but he wants to pick the those who vote for him if he and many of them are races but i want to leave it there i want to go to control the c. thank you very much for joining us he's special edition of course talking about the collapse of jim coalition so let's see what comes next bye bye .
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specky. has revealed the phidias he posed for. the paradise made some four hundred. sixty
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truth files. providing the. close up in fifteen minutes w. . the fast pace of life in the digital noise shift as the lowdown on the web showing new developments and providing useful information the wittiest finds and interviews with the makers and users. in forty five minutes. meet the germans new and surprising aspects of noise and culture in germany. us american news that takes a look at german idiosyncrasies at their traditions every day lives and language i can just come out of my lungs and eyes are so i'm young good.
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looking guy up d.w. dot com meet the germans. this is you don't you come to learn from but and but the right to our correspondent news in central istanbul i'm joined by the shellac up there you know his political correspondent on those stories in just a minute but first this news just in it's all about the perspective closer d.w. news sasa. their black and living in germany. is reminded what that means on a daily basis presenter john up like it was nothing i wanted to blend in and i was kind of. taking a holiday group and being you know different than the way. she travelled across germany to meet other black people and to hear their stories. to see that. i grew up in a white family in a white neighborhood it was definitely
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a challenge. she decided to put me up for adoption. the main thing was to keep your head down the conveyor mouth shut of course of the face like this i could never completely disappear if you see all these stereotypes about africa it's good to see you. do something for your country but you're still the black guy. afro germany starting december tenth d.w. . german chancellor angela merkel says she would rather face a new election than lead a minority government for party talks aimed at forming a new government collapsed late on sunday after the business friendly free
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democrats pulled out.


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