tv Conflict Zone - Guest David Mc Allister Deutsche Welle October 3, 2018 7:30pm-8:00pm CEST
every day that i was a private sector businesses make money with everything from commerce instruments to . trade. in france. starts october twentieth on w. . the last few months are weighed heavily on the german government the coalition almost fell apart there's been violence and hatred on the streets of germany and the domestic intelligence chief was accused of going soft on the far right my guest this week here in strasburg is david mcallister he's chair of the european parliament's foreign affairs committee and a former regional prime minister in germany is angela merkel on the way out.
david mcallister ruffins conference so thank you let's talk first if we may about the migrant issue the situation may have eased in the sense that far fewer people are coming to germany and the rest of europe but the political fallout is killing the c.d.u. it's killing your government isn't it. this issue isn't killing my party this issue is a. major challenge for germany and the whole european union the numbers have come come down since twenty fifteen but of course we have to make sure about the numbers stay at the level they are now and this means that we have to understand that the european union but in a hero in the schengen area i would border controls our external borders are the european external body so you protect the better yet you say it's not killing you that the coalition almost fell apart in the summer didn't it in turn squabbling over refugees in turn squabbling over the fire. the country's intelligence chief
scandal after scandal the s.p.d. priority social democratic party lies called it a state of permanent crisis so this killing your party will undoubtedly we have gone through some turbulent weeks and months in germany i welcome the free coalition parties perceive you to see as you have a social democrats have now agreed to concentrate on the issues and this is exactly what german citizens are expecting the considerable compromise you have and. i mean the fact is that by the standards of your government the far right if he is looking pretty strong and stable well if you're in politics you always have to be ready to find compromises and if you're in a coalition government with three parties you have to be ready also to strike deals and find compromises this is where it's a little what i said about the city but this is what they need governmental work is about if he is growing it's strong it's they were in some process the second party in germany yes and this is a worrying development down
a month ago you said the threat of the f.t. didn't worry you so much because eighty five percent of germans didn't vote for a radical right wing and that's a matter of fact fifteen percent for the in the polls is for me far too high and i wish that the numbers would come down and i seriously believe that the german bundestag with that the alternative of adoption would be a better place than with the f.t. but the narrative driving the debate about immigration with the fact that it was only fifteen percent of germans who voted for them is neither here nor there they're in charge of the narrative never not in charge of the narrative these people in the a.f.d. are giving very very simple i would say simplistic answers to very complex questions we have to make clear about politics is more than just giving simple answers you have to work hard and that's why i welcome up the government has now finally decided to go back to work to concentrate on the serious issues what we have to avoid is internal party fighting and also internal coalition fighting. it's
normal to look for compromise in a coalition but what we experienced in the last few weeks wasn't very helpful and the only party which really benefited was a if the right there by the better work we deliver the better we can make possible he will go down in numbers again where you are looking for complicated answers but while you're doing that a million cd see as you vote isn't affected to the so it's not going very well for you. if he is in the polls now about between sixty and seventy percent one thing is obvious that getting voters from all parties yes they're getting what is from our party but also hundreds of thousands of people who voted for the social democrats of the last elections also voted for the f.t.c. the f.t. is a challenge for the whole political system in germany not only for my party and you've been far too complacent about them in the past last year one of the f.t. founders alexander gallant went so far as to say that germany should be proud of what their armies did during the two wars he was pushing the boundaries and he got away with it. but what if the leadership is doing the pushing the boundaries week
by week and i think this is appalling and clearly the f.t. has shown in the last few weeks and months but now they are not drawing borders which are necessary between the radical right and the conservative right and that's why they if he is responsible and i am for a very serious debate with the making clear that we will not accept right wing populism nationalism and racism in germany oh you may not accept it but look at the effect on germany recent polls by force of one of germany's most respected polling organizations reports that more than one in four germans now believe islam arouses fear so by pressing that fear they really are changing the political mood in germany whether you like it or not the heels of muslim citizens in germany and an integral part of our society these people going in for germans think islam around us is fear is the happy state of affairs alerts where we have to make clear that the huge majority of muslims live. in germany germany are playing according to the
rules of following the law that we have to make be about those who are not. following our rules and our laws have to be taken to court like any other german citizens i want to see a integrity of i want to see an inclusive german society and this includes now millions of muslim citizens who have come from of a parts of the world to germany to stay in germany and they are welcome to become german citizens and there is this country is also their country how do you make that clear when you are children so angular merkel is already looking more and more like a wounded and was not she lost a key ally when her choice to lead her parliamentary group was booted out last month very embarrassing defeat for her because she had made a special plea saying that folk powder was crucial to the stability of the government you see as you pollen she grew up in the bonus was a surprise for us is unusual for my political party but this is to dismiss a surprise it was a huge defeat for her personally well angle of herself said that this was
a defeat but this happens in a democracy the parliamentary party decided to vote for ralph branca snare elferink us has been the vice chairman of the city you see as you grew up in the last years and he announced that he wouldn't change the policy of the group but he's also been very supportive of angela merkel so yes you could spin it as a success they would make alice the interest is a major defeat for her as going to be budget commissioner said she's a lame duck he said this six days ago lanka the chance of the federal republic of germany. stream really vulnerable she will presumably run again as seaview chairwoman at our party conference at the unit december i would support this ralph branca as has endorsed a candidate so we have a change in the leadership of cities to group this might mean a slight change in the way politics are presented to the german bundesliga it might be a fresh start for the c.d.c. issue group but i believe rational as you understand. they want to if your party
does badly in regional elections and has it's going to be real pressure on her to go there first of all got to wait until the elections actually take place i don't people always in one city have the shelter of the financial times the other day i can imagine the entire senior party leadership coming under pressure to resign and that includes merkel so the vultures and gathering around her well in the city who are concentrating on the regional elections of a very in the forty five. later in s. and then we will see what the polls are showing is for the lower level of course but still the c.d.u. in hessen on the sea as you move very are by far the strongest party and we will probably lead the two governments once again this in this in these federal states but of course we will have to look for coalition partners look we've been going through a number of very turbulent weeks in german politics larded high luck is running out isn't it the momentum is drifting away from her she no longer has the moment she looks vulnerable she looks weak she can't get her way in the party she can't get
her allies voted in i don't know what it's like in other countries but i can tell you for germany that ups and downs of politics are nothing very special of course i would like to see us doing better in the polls at the moment but i'm very sure once we're back on track doing serious work in berlin or in the government and the approval rates will go up again in june you agreed a migration compromise inside the e.u. again with it had many holes in it rescued migrants would be sent to control centers across europe but no one agreed on the locations so nobody knows where that's going to happen or how it's going to happen no country will be forced to have these control centers easy to get an agreement when no demands being made on any of the people who sign up to it is that the agreements mean. i believe that the migration crisis going to be solved at a european level not at a national it's not being sold to. be. largest challenge for us in the european
union is a challenge which will stay for years and even decades what we have to do now is to protect our external borders better we will step up from takes up to ten thousand frontex still twenty twenty we have to fight the root causes of migration especially in africa and we have to get our priorities right in national legislation what we can do about those people who come to europe who are fleeing from war civil war who are afraid of their lives can actually find humanitarian protection but on the other hand those people who are coming for economic reasons but are claiming siloam will have to be sent back to the countries where you are the u.n. is not impressed with the so-called deals that you had expressed serious concern last month about the so-called deal unworn the proposals being discussed risk compromising human rights and humanitarian principles but what we have if you don't care about the we have to break the business model of the smugglers cannot be
backed criminals decide who can actually reach europe if they put people taking their money on to boats onto a very dangerous risky trip across the mediterranean but the un says these measures are nothing more than an attempt to regain the political initiative from the follow it has shown humanitarian responsibility in the last years we have taken hundreds of thousands millions of refugees and we will continue to show our humanitarian responsibility but one thing is clear not everyone from africa can come to europe so we have to cooperate better with neighboring countries and the e.u. and turkey struck a deal which solved the migration route on the western balkan route and now we have to find similar compromise with the countries in africa this is not easy but we are talking for instance with egypt how we can cooperate better outcome on to egypt a bit later but your policy of allowing one point. four million migrants to come to
germany was the biggest recruitment tool that the a.f.p. could possibly have and far right parties around across twenty two european countries support for populist radical right quality has never been higher in thirty years that's quite an achievement that's traceable right back to your of your humanitarian policies is that twenty fifteen was a unique situation since and you may know it's a unique situation but these illegals were already on their way and germany and other countries like austria sweden the neverland's showed responsibility in a very challenging situation there since then the numbers have gone down by nearly ninety percent of the. mr mcallister people dying on the mediterranean route is actually going up it's actually going up as the un said now we have one in every eighteen people who are crossing the central mediterranean dying before it was one in forty two so there's nothing to feel complacent about or happy about pleased
about is there with policy because of proportion of people dying is common. in a situation in twenty fifteen and since then we have brought the numbers down but still every single human being who dies in the military is one too much that's why we have to break the business case of the smugglers we should prevent people from actually getting on these boats and that's why we should decide who can come to you know or not if it's possible on african territory in over africa but of course only according to our very high standards when it comes to human rights and the dignity of human rights is sort of out there because you have been calling for a marshall plan for africa but which which sounds great but the in derek corruption of some of your target countries mistakes and sudan for instance seems to be totally ignored by the. i mean attempts to make
a conditional on stopping the human smuggling may actually have made the situation worse haven't they because you're dealing with countries that are themselves part of the problem governments repressive governments that are part of the problem why people are leaving you're not changing the governments you're paying the oppressors aren't you. i've been to africa nine times since twenty forty and something which i am very convinced of is the future of europe is very closely linked to the future of our neighboring continent africa and what we need to develop is a new policy on africa which will combine elements of our foreign policy off on trade policy and neighborhood policy and our development policies that deal with the eruption massive corruption and the repression i was that deal with well i welcome the attempts of the german government and other governments to actually talk about a marshall plan not for africa but with africa what we need is a debate on i level with the african countries and of course some african countries
are doing better than others but what we have to do is fight the root causes and that means in the first case if people are leaving africa because we don't have a perspective because the youth unemployment is so high people can't feed their families if they don't have jobs that's what we have to do but of course we also have to improve the track record of african governments when it comes to the rule of law democracy and there is not i mean there's transparency international reporting in july where roughly forty three percent of africans are living in politics poverty fifty billion dollars worth of stolen assets leave the continent every year we have inside pouring water into a basin that doesn't have a club in it or you have to money just goes out so you have generator and share in africa you have countries which are doing better and you have countries with a negative track the other ones are dealing with the so-called khartoum process for instance yes states such as sudan somalia ethiopia. south sudan all taking bodine
you initiatives all of themselves responsible for a brutal repression that is making people leave so you are dealing with the oppressors and as i said before funding them we can choose our governments we can choose our leaders africa we have to deal with those who have there but one thing is key and european policy has always been like this it's more for more and less for less and those countries which are following our european values when it comes to democracy the rule of law human digital generosity. if you look for instance in all of my africa for instance to news here i believe is a success story it's of course a very partial success story a partial success story but look if we had the approach in europe that we would only be talking and dealing with like minded countries we would very soon be reduced to australia new zealand south korea and japan we learn with like minded countries doing things that work well it was a difference in is doing things that they actually produce the results you want but
you haven't produced the results you want while rome wasn't built in a day dealing with the african continent is a challenge. they were getting poured into these countries and going into the hands of repressive government you know it i know it but we both know it and we know that this has to stop and we have to fight corruption in africa but if you're trying to tell me that we shouldn't cooperate at all with african countries i didn't say that i didn't say that level this is what you're trying to no it hasn't i'm trying to say you need to do things the early results you want so lovely so you agree that we have to deal with those governments which are in power but of course we will support those super countries with strong civil societies and those political forces who will be able to get african people the same benefits we enjoy in europe you talk about corruption in africa but the you as conspicuously failed to deal with corruption inside the block itself inside the new europe's europe. dirty
little secret is that it's not nearly as transparent as honest as it likes to portray itself if you look at this year's banking scandals as much as thirty billion dollars a russian former soviet money could mean laundered through this tourney and bank of branch of danske a bank dutch bank also forced to pay seven hundred seventy five million euros a latvian bank actually had to be closed because it was funding north korea's nuclear program so people are exploiting the enormous loopholes that have been left open in the european banking system will be left open these loopholes. are not responsible for loopholes in the european banking system these examples you have given your senior member people of these examples which have been given are inacceptable and it's up to national governments and the european institutions if they are responsible to close these loopholes but just going back to what you said before the european union is by large and by far the biggest development
aid in the world and those who are criticizing the european union outside the european union should always ask themselves what they are doing so i believe we still have to do more i want africa we still have to do more for the so. please other parts of the world could try to do a little more and full of the europeans hold yourselves to a higher standard here many more of these banking scandals are out there do you know how many full time stuff the european banking with already has working directly or money laundering well i'm happy to be on the show to find two two people two or three full time staff it's a joke isn't it sounds serious it's only a massive blind eye to money laundering within the european well i can't comment on this issue but i'll be very sure to double check these figures i guess what you also have probably people on the national level who are also reported responsible for this but i don't want to protect anyone here money laundering is a serious offense and of course the european union and its. member states has to
work very hard that this doesn't repeat itself according to transparency international key european countries members of the o.e.c.d. anti bribery convention are failing to implement it this is one of the main instruments for fighting global cross border corruption if you look at their findings spain little or no in force many fronts limited in for small island little or no in force with czech republic little or no enforcement last year little or no inforced is not a happy state of affairs melissa lee is not a happy state of affairs and i think and i think that these figures you just mentioned should be an initiative will should be something which national government should take very seriously and i'm also happy to address these issues here in the european parliament. standards and when european judges a piece like you hide the details of the expenses instead of practicing transparency the european court of justice is just rude it would be a breach of any peace prevent see if they had to provide the public with details of
expenses invoices repeats you know like normal people but the one to call this is a delayed message you can get away with anything here which is a reading of the european court of justice this is a debate which has been where we're now following for several years in this european parliament the member states have different national standards you have some countries where any piece have to reveal every detail of the monthly allowance they get in other countries this is different than four hundred sixteen year m.e.p. in general expenses which they don't have to. say i wouldn't have any problem if the rules were changed on this issue but in the moment this is the situation but this is something really which will have to be decided between the group leaders of the presidency and i would be following to follow any rule which is given on this issue with this decision doing. sept encourage dishonesty and
wastage it can. only move it's a step backwards for the european union which is trumpeting its values around the world and then allows people to get away with an account it's accountability doesn't count ability it is being ignored but if i'm correct be informed we have a very similar situation in the german bundestag and i have never for criticism but german members of the german bundestag were accountable for what they are doing they get this monthly allowance and this money they can spend it on their office on newspapers on books on whatever the question is if you are supposed to document this or not if we start documenting this which if this is decided i would certainly do you would of course create an enormous new bureaucracy but somebody would have to control what is the money being spent on these actually true figures or not you talked earlier a little bit about egypt aid to egypt i believe e.u.
assistance stands at about one point three billion euros and there's a new allocation for twenty seventeen to twenty twenty which is between four hundred thirty two and five hundred thirty eight million euros i think those are the figures. the european parliament has passed resolution after resolution condemning the human rights abuses that have taken place in egypt and yet it continues to pour money it doesn't use the muscle it has to rein in these abuses which go on day of today people are being tortured people are being sentenced to death mass trials with five minutes hearing. trials that do not live up to international standards so why keep paying the oppressors in egypt why not use the muscle you have to stop this kind of thing set benchmarks that you don't the european parliament has repeatedly sharply criticize. as to my
rights. to sit in egypt and rightly so because we believe human rights are universally apply to all human beings not only to us in europe the european parliament is a worldwide known advocate for global human rights my point you just talk you talk about it you don't do anything that is not correct because dealing with these countries as i try to explain to you we have an approach more for more and less for less those countries who follow our way forward towards the human human rights the rule of law and democracy will get more support than others but these people getting support on getting said well you know nothing of will there are these regime in cairo and we have to accept this regime we have to strengthen civil society the opposition and other responsible political forces who are in favor of more democracy and the rule of law but in the meantime we do working we have in
mcalester you know it is the magic channels open and what is be alternative not to deal with militias cut their money back set benchmarks it doesn't milestones and eventually see what they get the next year and then people like me will be sitting in your program and you will be criticizing us why are we not talking and dealing with the africans once again we can choose our negotiation partners keep friends is a difficult negotiation they've negotiated and still we struck a deal with turkey and since then the numbers are coming down and of course we have to see that countries in northern africa and in the middle east are also sharing a lot of burden when it comes to migration waves and the refugees i mean criticizing turkey is the one thing and i've always criticize the political situation in turkey for good reasons but on the other hand i have to see that this country has sheltered millions of refugees coming from neighboring or agrees we have to end it thanks very much for he was a pleasure. the
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this is news live from berlin germany marks of the anniversary of unification following the fall of the wall nearly thirty years ago. the country's leaders gather for a ceremony at burning state opera house they say german unity is a success story but adds there are still divisions to overcome also on the program i'm scared to go inside a house by myself only go with my parents if they're not with.