tv Conflict Zone Deutsche Welle May 28, 2020 5:30am-6:01am CEST
season of founder sally. bianca the coolest piece of modern day heroes an. inspirational people take all the challenges of the world with the unique idea. of history with think entrepreneurial mind you look at those 2 problems and make them one clinicians a new season of founders about early. starts june 13th on w. if there is a fun day or a catastrophe where are the rules can be changed you were so desperate to win once you every politician who is looking for for success is to win yes the e.u. commission says the new law undermines the judicial independence of polish judges this is double standards i kind of but that president will be reelected despite the
coronavirus pandemic problems government pushed hard for a presidential election this month in the expectation that it would win but the opposition forced a last minute delay i guess this week from poland is dominic touchin speak polish and meet people from the ruling law and justice party what's his government guilty of trying to put politics ahead of people's lives. dominic touches he welcomes conflict zone. thank you for having me let's go back to the beginning of this month when your party was still hoping to hold a presidential election donald tusk former prime minister of poland said that only a madman or a criminal would proceed with an election during an international health crisis but you didn't care about the risk to people did you expected to win and that was all
that mattered are you trying to say that dumb of tosca called people from germany of our europe. from switzerland and from south korea are mad people because these are the places where elections took place maybe he's calling americans a mad people as they are having their primaries now so we've we resigned from this idea of elections at the moment but their language is yours and it's unacceptable well you didn't exactly get the support of the national electoral commission did you poland's commissioner for human rights apprised not surprised by the you didn't get it the european parliament old stock the organization for security and cooperation in europe they all told you to perspire on and all were ignored some 50 countries around the world have postponed during the pandemic. and that's what this this is what we this is what we decided that's number one but the question is why
you don't want to speak is asking for it or for a pause postponing elections because their candidate x. candidate it's already changed she sure is having a 5 percent of support when our president and our candidate at the moment is having 63 so i'm not surprised that they are running away they are just a political cowards and they trying to well escape from from disk a pass for a fee which is just in front of them the fact is though you were prepared to take a risk right through march april and into may itself with the health of your people you were so desperate to win one to. every politician who cares about his country every politician who is looking for for a success is this pressure to win yes we are desperate to win but we have not
desperate to hold the elections for any price that's why this is passed and we've changed our mind we are we are just observing the whole situation and that's why the elections did not took place so this is what the opposition was asking for isn't it it was a big risk because under your party's rule ponens health service is hardly the envy of the you is it but this but this but this election's did not took place so i'm surprised we are discussing the past and the facts we did not took place right up until the last moment you were prepared to take that gamble that's my point your health service luckily wasn't strange but it's not in the best of states is it in poland. well what we it's not a gamble it's constitution if the constitution is very clear about our responsibility for the country we have to we have to deal with the situation and this is this is what we this is what our government is doing no one was ready for
this kind of pandemic i can't really remember from the history that this kind of bond that me as this chinese virus took place ever so this is unusual and we have to find ourselves and the situation and be responsible for the constitution for the country that's why 1st of all our. our time was. now that the elections probably will take place in beginning of july maybe you talked about the constitution but you tried in the last moments of april and may to hold a postal vote the constitution says changes can be made to the electoral law less than 6 months before an election can they so you are quite happy to ignore what the cult that you know is that. no not a constitution by the way the original court was very clear about the changes and
it's very clear where that where the one of the points that n. pun denny times is very clear in polish law the changes can be made just before the election this is world we found out i will governmental was what was i to deal would be pundit mixo so if there is a pandemic or a catastrophe would it wet or the rules can be changed that we haven't change it even don't even know it's it's allowed. you also had some warning shots fired at you by the catholic church that your party always claims to revere the the bishops warned about possible violations of the constitutional order and the need to preserve the principles of free and fair elections that's just about as close as the church comes to issuing a formal rebuke to a ruling political party isn't it the funny thing is that when we are trying to talk about abortion which is killing the babies that church is criticizing by many
many in the media when church is taking a voice about the elections which is scotus reviewed for the opposition then. the church as the one who should be mentioned. we are government we are catholics we hear all the voices and we listen to the people also for the bishops but it's us our prime minister and our president who are making decisions when the bishops drew attention to the need for free and fair elections perhaps there were also referring to the huge sums of public money that your government dropped into the coffers of the state media which have more or less become your party's own p.r. agency haven't they but certainly concerned plenty of people. i have the best example of people from the public media i used to work at in media i used to be
director we've got 16 branches of national television and paul and i was i was in charge of one of them and i was fired by the previous government just because i was conservative i was i was and i was a member of any political party and they just sucked me just said they throw me away just 10 days after they took power so if you're asking about the p.r. agency and a political tools in the media i am the living example of how the previous government was treating people you wouldn't be happy if someone would treat you in this way believe me well let's stay with the present government because in january the president who's from your party signed a bill giving more than $500000000.00 to fund radio and television outlets that have been giving him hugely supportive coverage during his campaign for reelection how fair is that it's not about president it's not about one political party it's about our mission i know what the mission is in the public media how
many public state televisions is in germany we've got only one. and this is nothing unusual that the government is paying for for the public media that's how it was that's how it is and that's how it's going to be in the fetter of the state media is supposed to be neutral and you gave them a blatant they're not what it is about what it is actually because they were helping your campaign your election campaign. but the public pass public money is part of the public of the budget of the government and the public media our finances by the budget since day $1.00 since $9090.00 or even before that it's nothing unusual nothing new and this is the money which is paid every single year i can see the confederacy in here that's our that's our duty as a government to pay for 'd for for the public services like health media or anything else so the public money is supposed to fund
a public media that is doing your bidding and providing support for your view it's not true what happened to the new child well it's not just without borders reporters without borders called poland's public media all star mothers propagandist mouthpieces propaganda mouthpieces that tolerated either opposition nor neutrality from employees and fire those who refuse to comply. has a striking resemblance to the oh it's all us thing that the number 8 i thought it was in is. all this all these organizations international organizations which are attacking poland hungary united states i mean mr trump they are you sitting there position for their political goals and i know it's just political i can't really see their reason to even comment these attacks on the hungry poland
and mr trump mainly at the moment it's just not true let's talk about the courts because freedom house said you were trying to convert the judiciary into a client political tool but you don't like talking about that we thought we did it and we tried it you're trying to do it you're trying to the european commission of lords right it's not that it infringement procedure against your government for your latest attempt to put the judges on the propagator control has now we are having drunk driving judges we are having judges from their martial law. and we have many many of those which you don't have from the communist times because most of the countries that was the dot suffer as as we did so we have to clean that up to be straight this is what we promised this is our government was elected and i don't see the reason we should resign from that and obviously whatever we would try to do that would attack us saying that this is
a political decision but you have to remember that one day our party will lose the election and judges courts will stay so another party will be happy to have political courts it's just not true well the latest move by the european commission follows the passing of what the opposition calls your muscle law which can be used to fine or even sacked judges who question the government's legal reforms isn't it incredible you put your judges on the lead and you tell them when and when they can't when they can speak and when they can't. the ok i am a member of the european parliament can i be put in jail can i be charged yes i can i can lose my immunity i can and then the prosecutor can charge me with with whatever if i'm drunk driving or or stealing something do you know that judge judges in poland up till now. cannot be charged for whatever they do if they if
they drunk driving stealing and we've got videos of of the of the judges who are stealing money in the shop he couldn't be charged do you think it's ok when we are talking about the balance of powers 3 powers why they should be a both lot different above the politicians it's just not right you want all those powers down to executive legislative judicial you want them all in your hands and the e.u. commission says you're human or think a marshal is a western or if that's what you think they they say the e.u. commission says the new law undermines the judicial independence of polish judges it's not just their view it's the venice commission n.g.o.s human rights groups the parliamentary assembly of the council of europe are they all wrong have they all misunderstood poland poor public yes they they are all wrong that that's correct yes that's what i think they're not wrong mainly there's
a split ical debate this is not about the rule of law this is not about the constitution this is about hungary and poland and mr trump this is what they do this is the standards well we're just talking about the punish one of the marble standard it's the outgoing president of your supreme court now goes out to get stuff accused you of trying to accumulate excessive power she said for the last 5 years all the power has been in the hands of the ruling party who set the goal of destroying the independence of the court and she said it was the judge's duty to mars or something as dark as the person who was thinking it was thinking a part of the protests political protest of polish opposition they are not allowed to be active politically and that was political activity she was a she was marching on the streets of war so when a candle happy to support polish opposition that was against the polish law that
was political activity. the civic pride from and the rest is this ok is this right they think that that's how judges should be active you she said it was the judge's duty to speak out they took an oath to guard the lot of coal and our duty every judge and out of this it is clean up the past communist courts willing that's it to clean up yes has got us when they are active politically if they did if they disagree with the current current government they try to call it a duty when we are doing what polish people expect this is. not democracy unconstitutional violation of the human rights this and that so they can call it duty when they are when they are active politically and we are and we are breaking the law is that right it's just it's just it's just silly everyone knows this is about about their seats about politics about power and about money
in the government white paper that you put out in 2018 giving the reasons for what you called reforms of the judiciary you did say the judges had never accounted for their communist past and those reasons simply were that reason simply wasn't true was it because 81 percent of members of the supreme court were replaced in 1990 under the last ration laws in one 199742 judges and 21 family members of deceased what about 19 percent of those who left what about this one thing past common is judges who left who are still judging and there were vigil on the part of this as you well know they were individually all the cells you said they did nothing about the cult is up i'm pointing out to you that they did. what i'm trying to say there's only one judge who can put change ale in the if we have if we have those
who are a part of this company's machine which was as you know communism was much worse than the fascists. as it's just it's just against our dignity as a nation they shouldn't be there not even one not 19 percent not 10 percent not one not even one shouldn't be in a court and we're going to clean up the courts this is what we promised to the polish people and that's why our government was elected the truth is that the courts have just got in the way of what you wanted to do wasn't it in 2016 your party leader jaroslav kaczynski it's not i thought it's opinion now he said he said in 2016 changes to the constitutional court were necessary to ensure there were no legal blocks on government policies aimed at creating a fairer economy no legal blocks on government policy so basically you want to rule without any legal checks and balances whatsoever don't you and you shut up the judges if they criticize not no. not on
a blog you set it up like you said it and checks and balances as you call it it's completely different we had it we had a cases when we tried to. change the courts and they were protesting against the law so it's different where someone is locking up the doors of the public place like a court that's what we had and there's a difference when when someone is trying to discuss it debate it in a parliament it's unacceptable we are we are free democratic country and no one can rule the country if it's if it's something not elected they want to be a politicians they are unelected but they want to rule the country before the us are testing because they don't trust your government that's why they were protesting ok so if if people do not trust our government watch my lips they want to bat who's going to when the next
election presidential and parliamentary get new cd and you see the polls now and 'd the support we are having from around the country i can bet that president build up will be reelected. this has been some of the other measures that your government has been taking not just against the courts but you've been doing a lot of social and sort of like it's not against courts it's against parts communist and a communist judges it's completely different not all judges not the courts be specific let's send our people in the rest of the world glendora organization large respected organizations don't buy that line miss the skin as you well know you well polished pop but by polish people not buying it but supporting us this is why a lot of our government was elected 2nd time and is going to be elected 3rd time i'm 100 percent sure while for me my most important is what people of people mention as a part what people post people are saying up organization mainly from soros i don't
care about soros are care about polls let's look at the social engineering you've been trying trying to roll back l g b t rights in poland in a pretty direct assault last year now writes not right it's not true again it's not about as g.t. rights everyone is equal in poland everyone's free disses democratic country it's about pushing promoting and using money for the organisations with their flags of the rainbow they are making money and they want to get into the schools and the children it's not about rights they can they can do whatever i don't care how they sleep how they live they are free but when they are using public money and this is what is happening now in war so. it's just not right so when the pro-government newspaper guys that's a post good distributed stickers to advertise l g p t free zones in poland you're quite happy with that level of discrimination as
g.b.t. ideology that's very forward today said helgi t.v. all the green zone that's what the stickers which were distributed by guys sent a postcard actually said and the e.u. commission yeah that you had a variant of that kind of discrimination you didn't speak out about it did you so it's not. it's not true it's about ideology which is pushed ringback by very very small group of the politicians who have tried to use see who are trying to say that we are racists to 70 and all this and all that we've been called names for so many years again i don't care and i'm trying to tell you and repeated everyone in poland is free town for a week at it's a beautiful country safe country you can come and see we haven't had even one terrorist attack because our policy of the illegal migration so this is what i'm
trying to repeat it every single time poland is safe clean and beautiful come and see so for women in 2016 your party toy for that idea your party toyed with the idea of withdrawing from the council of europe convention on preventing and combating violence against women your reasons that the treaty endangered the family and promoted gender ideology how exactly this cracking down on violence against women endangered the family. it has nothing to do about it that it has nothing to do about women it has nothing to do about violation it's about the collaboration i was the member of the council of europe i was even are in charge of the polish delegation to the council of europe and i had a chance twice to discuss it it's not about women it's about this thing it's about the illegal migration and sharia law we had this discussion of.
legal community. and we were debating sharia law in the europe where no one is this guy saying european values in saudi arabia or any other sharia law states so we are trying to keep europe keep poland great and christian well you know in 2017 your president simply instructed people not to implement the convention that was supposed to come back violence against women he said regarding national laws on violence against women those laws already in place in poland are working and being in force that wasn't true was it that's simply not true the figures don't bear that out. the law is not working 1st of all if 1st of all do you have a data about the violence against women and men do you have the data yes yes your police state of the 2017 ok so we are $92000.00 cases of family violence in which
women amounted to nearly 73 percent of the victims and men were the perpetrators in 92 percent of cases so how could your party possibly claim that laws were in place working to protect women they weren't these are your figures your police when when i when i see what when we see what is going on in the model of in sweden when we see what's going on in love don't care about well how they got up colors other off paris when you see data from all those places around the european union you can tell the war the this law works in poland how many dedicated shelters does poland have for women and children who survive domestic violence how many hundreds hundreds like everyone else in europe one shelter 126 bed shelter in the whole us not desert as it's you are roman catholic i'm a roman catholic i a roman catholic and i know how many shelters are organized by by church charge itself not not by the government it's hundreds of these places and i've been there
many times and many of them in 2016 the year after your party took power your own supreme audit office called services for survivors of violence insufficient and highlighted the scarcity of shelters spaces for them that your own supreme order ordered office are they wrong do you think it's good that we are trying to improve the conditions do you think it's good are you trying to improve the conditions there's no evidence that you are you're defining this women's rights group of eval right and center who try to protect women you defunded half a 1000 of them at least of course. of course we are we are funding places which are hoping it's not about so there's only but also salt colored g. so cold and those who are helping to basically raise the kids it's common sense and it's obvious everyone knows that if there is anyone who needs help this
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