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tv   Conflict Zone - Confronting the Powerful  Deutsche Welle  July 25, 2020 6:30pm-7:01pm CEST

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passionate drama competition rivalry marketing numbers atmosphere however by that time intuition love money. fans plan spams and fans all bought. on you tube. we're not at war with the high supreme court that we want to bully the court i mean going to the to god forbid know when you call for it with the state of israel your your situation economic situation and peace is far far better than trying to attack us we will not give up an inch of security because unfortunately they flip on us there's turmoil in israel with mounting demonstrations against the prime minister huge the corruption and mishandling the spiraling health crisis my guest this week from jerusalem is near bach out of form of matter of the city and a leading politician there mr netanyahu sleep could party are the wheels finally
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coming off the prime minister's wife. mere focker out welcome to comfort zone prime minister netanyahu is under increasing pressure over accusations of corruption which he's denied and his handling of the pandemic their approval rating or not seems to have sunk to just under 30 percent how long before the party that could party says enough and it's time he stood aside at least temporarily. well 1st of all shalom from jerusalem. i think the biggest challenge we have right now is the corner virus the economics the medical challenges we have a 'd large government of over 70 parliament members supporting it in the coalition the issue you raised is not in the critical path of the challenges israel has right
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now. there are challenges on economics on the medical side and the trial 'd which is happening in parallel is not an issue for us israelis here mr barak at he's on trial on 3 serious counts of corruption and come january the court expects him to be there 3 days a week you really want a prime minister who is half in and out of the dark at the same time prime minister netanyahu was doing a very good job in managing israel. and so i think he's got a very strong support by the public has a wide coalition and everyone understands that we prefer the best prime minister and he will manage the trial he will manage the will no doubt in my mind he'll be able to manage the country he's doing many many things simultaneously now he will continue doing that with the trial remind you that he's innocent until proven guilty and everyone we want everyone that goes to court to prove his 'd innocence
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he calls the whole thing a witch hunt what if he's convicted in the end you win the party would go down with him are you prepared for that. the likud party is the leading party in the country we have the right ideology the experience we have a wide array of talented a good people the likud party will continue even after netanyahu finishes his role i personally intend to run for office and replacement once he decides to step down the likud has a long history and a big future ahead of us you know do you buy into the kind of conspiracy that he says has been waged against him elements in the police and the prosecution joined forces with the leftist media to manufacture baseless and absurd cases against me he said a conflict of interest that cries out to the have and leaving aside the rhetoric of the melodramatic rhetoric do you really expect people to believe that state
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prosecutors colluded to do all that the state attorney several judges state witnesses all part of this grand conspiracy you buy into that well let's put it this way netanyahu believes in this innocence and he feels that he is getting an unfair treatment both by the press and many many other elements of people maybe also in the police and other elements of the 'd. legal system in our country that's what he feels and he's saying that. you know but if i consider such a rotten just how does a system mr mr bucket in such a rotten justice system as he paints it why did he not find out over the last 10 years and do something about it turns out it's only a rotten system when it goes after him is not the truth. there are systems in our country and i believe also in yours. needs to upgrade and change in time
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at any given moment in time we have to upgrade the legal system the court system the naturally the government parliament which i'm part of we must nobody has immunity from change and evolution and i think that part of the issues definitely we have to restructure some of the elements in the relationship between the parliament and the government and the legal system this is the 1st time mr barak at a serving israeli prime minister has been formally charged with criminal offenses why not do the honorable thing and stand aside in order to fight the indictment and clear his name or does this leak could lead government not worry about senior figures under investigation it certainly doesn't worry about past convictions and some of its members does it. tim we have a law in our country and the law is specifically and explicitly says that the prime minister can continue serving in israel until the high supreme court decides
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otherwise and the reason this law exists is that if somebody wants to kick out a prime minister he could charge him and then what happens once the prime minister's found. that he's not guilty then you've overthrown the prime minister just by putting charges against him it doesn't make any sense that's why this really law says that he could continue serving his role until through until proven guilty by the high supreme court and so we're just following the law and it makes a lot of sense you have to understand it makes a lot of sense of perhaps the letter of the law or mr bucket but there's also a morality something which has brought mr netanyahu scathing criticism from judges on the israeli supreme court. said a situation in which a defendant charged with serious ethical crimes forms of government and heads it raises a public and moral problem whose magnitude is hard to overstate justice the focal
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mindset of the knesset to choose a prime minister charged with bribery undermines the public's faith in servants you have no qualms about any of this you're not interested in the morality that the supreme court is talking about here. the answer is that we had elections and all of what you've said was put right on the table to this very public israeli public decided to vote for prime minister netanyahu and the government the 70 plus parliament members that are part of the coalition out of 120 parliament members are the answer the public understands exactly what you're saying what the what some of the judges said and went to the ballots and voted no 10 the out so the answer is we understand all that we understand that there's a lot we understand that other people think otherwise but the public decided to support an attorney in spite of these challenges therefore i feel comfortable that
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we are 1st of all working by the law and may believing the public. to choose the prime minister the prime minister to now is able to create a large wide coalition and that is the answer to the courts the israelis that understand and while we were a democracy the only democracy in the middle east nobody around out has out a strong you say that you say that but one of the judges justice and about and said that appointing but prime minister who's indicted on serious charges doesn't accord with the fundamental principles of israeli democracy but you're not much interested in what the judges on the supreme court think are you that's not true the 'd fact factually you're wrong because give you an example let me give you an example what is what is particularly annoyed your party especially about the supreme court is the fact that it struck down the law you passed in 2017 which retroactively legalized illegal settlements and that was something your party hasn't been able to
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forgive wasn't it we have howls of hysterical protest in june settlements minister tzipi hotter valley accusing the court of dilip clarin war on the right of jews to settle in the land of israel really declaring war on the right of jews is that what you think that the supreme court has been up to. we are not at war with the high supreme court everyone respects and they have some maybe sometimes an. extreme opinion on matters specific matters but we all accept the high supreme court judgments we believe that the 'd relationship between the parliament and the supreme court there are other places in the world that have different relationships for example in israel the high supreme court. a few times ruled that laws that we are we've created in the parliament are illegal and there are other democracies in the world that don't enable the high supreme court to rule out laws that are
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defined by the parliament but you have said in this matter is going to take that status not the case you're settlements minister didn't accept the judgment from the supremes court do you accept what the court told you with that law that it legalised illegal building by jews in the west bank and had deeply harmful consequences for the substantive rights of palestinians question is then why are you passing laws that are so harmful for the palestinians for the sub's their substantive rights why do you pass laws like that in the 1st place 1st of all i respect the high supreme court i will always respect them even if i don't agree with them. on the other hand we are now in the parliament in the parliament member from the likud party i want to change the laws so that we have better quality of life you want to change the answer to her was mayor of jerusalem that we want to bully the colinear the 2 there are 2 things god forbid no use at the time is come to receive or have thought about power between the branches of government what's
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that mean another attempt to bully the court. god forbid know the answer is that we look at other democracies in the world and we see that the relationships are different then the balance is different in the united states the president of united states he chooses the high supreme court judges in other places there's not that there's different balances and we learn from other democracies so let me just focus on the point you said. interference an area any way you put a shovel in the ground you find jewish roots and jews are allowed to live anywhere they want in the world in new york in germany in london in jerusalem anywhere in arab countries they can live anywhere they want especially in places that any way you put a shovel you find our roots in our history in the bible and that's not in the bible ok now from my perspective jews could live there and right now applying israeli sovereignty israeli laws on israeli cities and towns interference in area is the
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right thing to do from my political perspective of where i belong are going to come i want to come on to the we should i want to modify a law that i want to come on to the issue of an exception a bit later i want to talk 1st about the issue of hate speech which has been coming from your party this year state department report on human rights from your friendly trump administration accuses your party directly of promoting hatred it said during the april and september national elections last year the likud party deployed messages promoting hatred against arab citizens including a chat bot message on the prime minister's facebook page saying the arabs want to destroy all of us women children and men facebook have to spend it on the prime minister said he wasn't aware of the message was only could really so desperate in those elections that it had to resort to such cheap tactics to i was mayor of jerusalem for a decade 10 years and every time i heard somebody. to speak hatred to any side
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i was always against it the likud party as a whole believes in living together in cooperation we have in the likud party muslims christians and jews and jews and others we have all kinds of you know. reading which is ultra orthodox and secular we have an all we are a party that focuses on how to live together sometimes people may step off line in terms of their speech i will always be there to remind them that hatred is not the way that we are not part of our d.n.a. mr bhagat if you did you remind yourself we will or did you remind them in the course of the elections which brought a torrent of false charges against arabs the prime minister himself said that if it hadn't been for voting fraud in the april election the arab party ballot would not have passed the electoral threshold same from the tourism minister yariv levon the
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suspicions are that there are $100.00 polling stations that are heavily suspected of irregularities what was the reality nothing of the kind the director general of the central elections committee said a police investigation after the april election found suspicion of fraud in 2 polling stations in the arab sector not 100 just 2 and this fraud he said and then did not benefiting liquid as well as shots another right wing party so these allegations that came forth during the elections i don't remember you challenging any of them but they were. breathtaking level of dishonesty from your party wasn't it. people get carried away in the elections all sides not just that they could practically all parties unfortunately sometimes get carried away in their election . in the elections unfortunately this is not just an israeli issue i think it's the same in the united states and in europe in many many places. i am a person that seeks to focus on the common denominator of people to unite people
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and i will always be against such statements yes but you know not how i mean that's really your your attempts at unity and not happening i said oh no wonder your president ruben rivlin commented in january this year when the nation witnesses its leaders spewing hatred at one another boycotting entire communities and seeking votes via a strategy of divisiveness what's left for them to believe in there's nothing in that statement of his for your party to feel proud about is there. tim i said earlier people get carried away in the elections i personally and i know that this is part of the d.n.a. of the likud is seek the common denominator and if people step on the line in what they're saying i will always be there and i always was there to say that it must we must focus on a different ways to speak and this is not just for the could i'm saying this is a liquid parliament member it's true for all our parliament unfortunately in the
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elections people get heated up and sometimes mean misspeak it's just it's not just about it like a local issue not is about as it is it's not just about elections now where is the hardship that the palestinians live under more apparent than in the city that you ran for 2 terms as maggi recently again your american friends in the trumpet ministration a scathing about the lack of services for non jews in jerusalem the latest report says arab christians and muslims druze and ethiopian citizens faced persistent institutional and societal discrimination this is disgraceful enough isn't it but if you go back and look at previous reports this discrimination has been flagged up year after year and nothing was done to improve the situation why well i think you are describing the situation in the united states of america and many other european countries i could tell it has helped francis relic of the fine i'm just saying that. if you look at the facts the quality of life of our residents
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in east jerusalem is far far better than any of the arabs countries around us and the reason they have is not much of a comparison of who has it if there was a. of course it is the alternative they have is far worse and so all the nanda market democracies around us none of them are democracies their quality of life is far far worse if you look at the. home of the wages of people the arab israelis their wages is much much higher than in the in defense of area the wages of arab israelis in jerusalem. residents is far far greater than in jordan and in any other world in egypt in syria or any other place and this is just the background what does that about accountability do that mr buck at the proof of neglect and double standards lies lies in the statistics 1000 figures quoted by the state department from the jerusalem institute for policy research for 2017 show the dire conditions
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in which palestinians live in jerusalem 78 percent of our of residents there and 86 percent of arab children in east jerusalem lived that year in poverty and that's a policy decision isn't it are you proud of that. god forbid that's not a policy and by the way you forgot to mention that we have a huge a large ultra-orthodox community in jerusalem that is very similar to the arab communities the arab communities around the country if you look at all villages in the country you find that there are social economic status is lower unfortunately now what i've done is i focused on education improve the quality of education there and unfortunately some of the arab residents choose the palestinian system dedication system which is far far less better than the israeli system we've done everything to prove both quality of life infrastructure tourism went up before coronavirus to high high numbers and it's
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a big huge employer of their residents and the arab residents are much much better as part of the jerusalem united city of jerusalem than any other solution and the fact is the reality is that they understand that it's much much better working and cooperate in with the state of israel than anything else if the doc can realize that when you cooperate with the state of israel your your situation economic situation and peace is far far better than trying to attack us mr bucket let's talk about the prime minister's promise last september and next nearly a 3rd of the occupied west bank if he was returned to office a big announcement to july 1st time table in the assurance in may to a liquid faction meeting we don't intend to change the deadline well the deadline has come and gone did you underestimate the international condemnation of such a move. well 1st of all in any future deal with the palestinians
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there are no nobody goes out from their home all of israeli towns and cities stay where they are therefore in any city scenario in any situation applying israeli law on the israeli citizens living in truth in some areas the right thing to do so we start for this is the right thing to do it's a bit more than that in pursuit of a cat isn't it's a bit more than that because if an exception goes ahead it's the end of any hope of a functioning state for the palestinians isn't it the prime minister said it may palestinians merely the jordan valley would not be given israeli passports after an extension but would be citizens of a future palestinian entity and subject to israeli security control you will continue to dictate the security conditions to palestinians that's what this is going to be about isn't it to listen there are 3 pillars of cooperating with the palestinians into the end scenario the 1st is civil separation they manage their own cities and towns we manage this where the cities and towns
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2nd point 100 percent full israeli security we will not give up an inch of security because unfortunately they flip on us the 3rd element is a joint economy that we must develop because when we work together in. palestinian israelis work together in our industrial zones and in tourism it is far far better for the palestinians and israelis and so the joint economy is something we must develop these are the 3 pillars of living together between israelis and palestinians in judea same area there we don't want to manage and we do not manage now bruce and other arab cities and towns and similarly they will not manage ours nobody's going anywhere we must learn to live together in peace and harmony and when there is peace. this in any scenario is very long will apply in this very same citizen tell mr broadcast that the rest of the world there isn't is value on your
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comforting assurances the un high commissioner for human rights michele summed up the prevailing view i met say she is illegal period she said any an exception any an exception well i totally disagree i totally disagree and the americans now understand that the land injured here's an area is all it is the land of the jews and we have no problem with the palestinian side by side and enable them to have their all civil they have their civil autonomy we don't want to get involved in their civil autonomy was it do the americans really understand that do the americans really understand that city hunter valley or settlements minister said last month there are gaps between the americans and us on this issue there are gaps what gaps 5 gaps a gap is not a round understanding that the israeli cities and towns are legal americans understand that there are some gaps in with some of the americans naturally we
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don't disagree but they're not from my perspective they're not a game changer in terms of what has to be done the challenges are why how large with. so plain israeli law what is the map how is it going to look like and on these details there are challenges and we are working together with our american friends to define that we do not want to. rule the palestinian civil life we propose better cooperation on the joint economy and we will not give up the right to defend ourselves and make sure that we have full israeli security control on every inch of judea and samaria if this is just like you want. to get real peace if joe biden becomes president in november wins the election in november becomes president next year you will have missed what the prime minister called a historic opportunity he is dead set against this annexation is in the. well 1st
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of all let's say that he wins the elections and we will any american president that will win we will sit with them and share our views and do everything we can in the liquid party to do the right thing to. do to take place when you are on this very citizen towns will be the right thing to do in any potential deal in the future you have one country as one of your commentators put it in a newspaper where you have one country with 2 peoples for regimes democracy for jews discrimination for israeli arabs military dictatorship for palestinians in the west bank and prison for their brothers in the gaza strip you really telling me you proud of that. that's total nonsense with your permission the reality is that we will give a hand and create peace with our enemies we've done that with egypt for years we have peace with egypt there was by far the biggest enemy of israel similarly with jordan and israel knows how to create real peace deals
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unfortunately look what happens in the hamas in gaza we left gaza one sidedly the israeli army left gaza and what did we get everyone talked about the future of gaza being. you know hopefully a beautiful place for a business what do they do you have a relaxing you left the grounds of but the focus outside and you are controlling everything that goes in and everybody who goes in and out all due respect i heard that gaza i heard that gaza will be the singapore of the middle east now the israeli army is not there what happened is exactly the opposite so people there are saying. we got forbid if you leave security in judea and samaria we will get the gaza hamas right next to jerusalem and all this the heart of israel all right and never make that mistake again mr i was about because we could go on discussing this we could go on discussing this much longer unfortunately we've run out of time thank you very much for being on conflict so appreciate your time my pleasure thank
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you my my my my my. my you. would. you.
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