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tv   Stossel  FOX News  June 30, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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♪ >> children. >> you save. jo i'm told orwell's 1984 has come to america. >> this big brother has gotten creepier. >> when you call grandma in nebraska, the nsa knows. >> nobody is listening to your telephone calls. >> but government officials do lie. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all? >> no, sir. >> my fellow libertarians are mad at me. they say i'm not angry enough. >> you know, i don't think this is john stossel. i think it's an imposter. >> but i'm angrier than she is. >> i don't mind. it's not like it's going to be
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on tmz. big brother, that's our show tonight. and now john stossel. >> 65 years ago, that novel struck a cord. people feared the future would bring government spying on us everywhere, even in our bedrooms. big brother was watching. when computers became popularh people feared that the internet would be government's way of controlling us. we libertarians said no, the opposite is true. the internet and personal computer revolution has freed us from all kinds of government control. >> and it did. lately, we've learned about or wellian like intrusions. the national security agency tracks our phone calls and some e-mail. this is a terrible threat to american liberties says congressman justin a mash.
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congressman, why? they're just mining data, not listening to your phone calls. >> well, it violates the constitution. the fourth amendment protects us against unreasonable searches and seizures. this clearly violates the 4th amendment. the government is gathering information by a general warrant. they're going after people not on the basis of any suspicion, not on the basis of any probable cause, but just because they're people. just because the information it ernment and that's what our founders expressly prohibited with the constitution. >> it's useful to me too if it keeps me from being blown up by a terrorist. the fact that they're just scanning everybody makes it seem like less of an invasion of privacy. >> the reason the founders believed it was wrong is because we didn't want the government collecting this kind of information. they've put the constitution in place to prevent the government
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from injecting itself into our personal affairs. you could do away with a lot of the constitution and argue that maybe that makes us safer. you could also do away with the first amendment, second amendment, third amendment, fifth, sixth, seventh and eighth. >> i don't want to do that. >> someone could argue that and say the government can control everything, they can prevent all crimes. i doubt it would work very well but of course, we'd have a police state. that's expressly prohibited by the constitution. the reason we have a constitution is to prohibit government from doing this. >> leaving the constitutional argument for a moment, can you make this live for me a moment. i don't see how my privacy is invaded by these massive scans. >> that's fine if you completely trust the government. >> no, i don't. >> our founders didn't trust the government, i don't trust the government. the government can use the information to, for example, blackmail corporate executives, they could use the information
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to persuade members of congress to vote a certain way and they can use the information against the public. weep don't want a culture in our country of distrust, of fear. my parents came from the middle east, they came from regime that is were tyrannical. people were afraid to talk on the phone or talk to their neighbors because they were afraid everyone was a spy for the government. we don't want that kind of culture here in this country. it has a damaging effect on our culture. >> you can't see it here. i made up this list of 100 things i hate more than the -- or as much as the nsa spying. and where do we rank this? you believe in liberty. is it worse that they do this data mining than the fact that they employ 22 million people, that they say where our kids must go to school, that we have a $17 trillion deficit. that they pass dodd/frank. that there's bailouts.
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that's -- how much can we be angry about? >> i think it's all bad. but when you have direct violations of the constitution, when you have someone trying to infringe upon the fourth amendment or the first amendment for the second amendment, those are serious threats against our liberty and more serious in many ways than the kind of financial exploitation that the government is involved in. it's true that the government is bloated. there's been no bigger advocate for balancing our budget and getting our debt under control than me. at the same time, we have to look at this, our civil liberties. that's why we fought a revolution in the 1700s is because of civil liberties violations. >> in the 1700s, we got the fourth amendment, partly because british soldiers were going in people's homes and taking stuff and searching your most private space. how is looking for patterns in a billion phone calls anywhere like that? >> well, the problem is the legal theory they're using.
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the legal theory they're using is that any time you use a third party provider to store any of your documents and most papers today are electronic, they're digital. so most of the papers in effect that we have in modern times are digital papers in effect. the government is using the false and flawed logic and argument that that is all available to the public. once you put it out on a third party server, the government has the right to obtain it because it's no longer private. and that's ridiculous. >> what do you say to the claim that maybe 50 terrorists incidents were stopped? >> we don't know if that number is accurate. most of the information is classified. we can't get to the bottom of it. frankly, a lot of the court opinions that deal with these cases are classified in a way where members of congress can't get the opinions. part of what we're doing with our bill is trying to make sure that these cases are available to members of congress. right now, i actually can't read the court opinions that are
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interpreting laws like the patriot act. >> that certainly is a problem when they say it's secret. trust us. congressmanamash. thank you. >> thanks, john. the other side. congressman mike pompeii owe supports it. congressman, why? you heard what your fellow republican just said. >> john, thanks for having me on the show. the good news on this case is we don't have too give up any cons tug al right and we can keep america safe. the programs that being conducted are wholly constitutional and there is incredible oversight. from all three branches of government, exactly how the founders intended it. there's article 1 oversight, folks like me that sits on the house intelligence committee, the program that's run by article 2. we've got article 3 courts. these are judges nominated by ament, confirmed. these are programs that have
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been conducted lawfully and constitutionally. representativea amash. kept a lot of americans safe for a long time. >> why do you trust government on this? >> john, i don't trust individuals. there's no one who brings a deeper distrust of the federal government to washington, d.c. than me. but i've seen this process. the concerns that representative amash has about the data, he talks about them listening to calls and data mining, those aren't happening. even mr. snowden hasn't alleged a single thing that's unlawful. he hasn't identified a single task that the government has taken on in the history of this program that there's been an unlawful action. >> is it okay for them to lie to us, james clapper, the director of national intelligence said this when asked about government surveillance. >> does the nsa collect any type of data at all on millions or hundreds of millions of americans?
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>> no, sir. >> what are the rules? >> the rules are you tell the truth. and mr. clapper in that case, i've heard his story. story is totally unacceptable. that's not how he should have answered the question. he should have been more careful and probably given the most appropriate answer which is these are classified programs and i can't talk about it in this setting. i'm happy to share it in a setting where it's appropriate. >> don't the bad guys already assume we're doing this? was this really a revelation? >> john, i'm sure they assume a lot of things. but it's important that these programs remain secret and classified in many cases. i can tell you this. already after mr. snowden's release of this information through the guardian, national security agency information indicates that al qaeda is behaving differently. so they might well have suspected some of this was going on. they learned a couple things, right? they learned not only what was going on but learned the legal limits of these programs. having shared that, it's very
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dangerous and allows the enemy to have insights into things we're doing to catch the really bad guys, the terrorist who is still want to kill us. >> this is a rare time when you are in full agreement with our commander in chief? >> you can't have 100% security and also then have 100% privacy and zero inconvenience. >> you agree, i take it? >> you know, i sort of agree with the president. it would be indeed a rare time when i agreed with this president. i don't view this issue as partisan in any fundamental way. >> it's not clear how crucial the national security, the data mining is. senator rand paul points out that we already have so much data that the fbi misses tips they have, like the tip about the boston marathon bombers and others. >> we can't seem to keep up with the people we've been told about. remember the underwear bomber,
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his dad turned him in. we couldn't keep up with him. he still got on a plane. yet we think they're going to go through billions of bits of information every day? >> what's your answer to that? >> john, here's the glorious thing. we're not going through these billions of bits every day. this collection of phone records that mr. snowden talked about are not used for data mining. they're being used when there's a specific terrorist case we can identify. we say hey, we think we've got information that leads us to check phone records. it's not the case that we're constantly data mining and going through billions of records. is there specific use of this information always with court approval. that's what the americans would expect. my last thought is it. no program is going to catch them all. there's no way to create a system that's perfect and catch every single instance of terrorism. they've been important and effective and are critical to rounding out our nation's intelligence collecting
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apparatus. >> thank you congressman. >> thank you, john. coming up, libertarians are mad at me. some call me disgusting, a a lino, libertarian in name only. i'll respond to that later. next, a government intrusion i really am angry about. the irs abuse of people who have the wrong ideas. >> why are they in my kitchen? why are they looking through my books? [ male announcer ] erica had a rough day.
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for a store near you go to ♪ private confidential tax information leaked. and conservative groups were systematically targeted by the irs. >> that's a scandal that's clearly worth getting angry about. congress in its wisdom has decided that if you give money to an advocacy group, don't get a tax deduction if the group spends more than 50% of its money on political activity. this spring we learned that the irs selected 500 conservative and tea party groups for extra scrutiny. agents were told, be on the lookout for words like liberty, patriot, constitution. all words the irs bureaucrats then denied tax deduction toss tea party groups for more than a
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year and harassed them with question after question and in a few cases, leaked their donor lists. sometimes leaked them to left wing groups. that is despicable. this is just raw political abuse. brook rollins runs one group that was abused. the texas public policy foundation. what happened to you guys? >> well, john, what happened to us in the spring of last year, 2012, our donor list and as a 501 c 3 charitable organization, which is what our organization is, we have to file with the irs a list of larger donors. but as you know, that list is suppose today remain anonymous and the irs in return promise toss black out every name before it release that is information about the organization. >> why should it be anonymous? people say if you give to a political cause, you ought to be known. >> well, this goes back to the founding of our country in my opinion. the right to associate and to engage is inherent in a democracy and in a free --
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>> you have a right to associate. it has to be made public about it. >> let's go back to the civil rights movement. back in alabama versus the naacp, the state of alabama tried to force the naacp during the civil rights era to disclose their donors. as we all know, why would they do that? they would do that because they think they could threaten those people and not to give money anymore or to coerce the givers of the naacp to back down and they knew that the current state of affairs in alabama was going to change unless they were able to undercut or dilute the naacp's power in what they were trying to do. the u.s. supreme court said absolutely not. we have rights as americans to remain anonymous when we support those whose ideas we believe in. >> likewise, our donors know that gee, if my name is publicized maybe i'll be harassed the way others are. >> that's exactly right. not surprisingly, had the coke brothers were on our list, as well as many others.
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when the left seized control of this list and wrote about it in magazines and blogs and websites, that harassment started to come about. absolutely. >> then there's that targeting. this didn't happen to you. you already have a tax exempt status. this happened to others. at first the irs commissioner says there's no targeting. a year later lois lerner revealed the truth in response to -- mistakes were made by people trying to be more efficient in their workload. that's all. if you say tea party or patriot, they know you're an advocacy group. they were just doing their job. >> that's what they're saying. what is amazing and the news stories today since yesterday or -- wait, wait, the report from the irs, we had progressives in our list of targets. >> this week that was released. >> this just happened. so we weren't really targeting conservatives, we were targtding everybody. john, have you seen one progressive group step forward
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and say we've been harassed, one group said wait a minute, irs, you delayed us for two years, you made us produce 23,000 pages of documents which one of the groups had to produce in their request to become a c 4. we haven't seen any of that. when big brother gets so big they have to know everything about you to be able to give you everything you wafrnt, that begins the ruin of our country. i think that's the crossroads where we are right now. that's why the show is so important and -- >> when government is so big and you want the tax deduction, you have to give them all this information. they say targeting information doesn't live until they leadership e 23 pages of institute. >> 23,000 pages. that's right. >> the coalition for life of iowa was asked, explain in detail the activity at prayer meetings. provide the percentage of time your group spends on prayer groups compared with other
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activities and one group the american patriots against government excess, i like that name, was required to provide a synopsis of every book read. the president of the group said, gee, i don't have time to provide a book report, you can read them for yourself. she sent them and included a copy of of the constitution. >> which is great. it goes to the bigger point that what is happening here must stop. when government gets so big, this is what happens. and this is why we have to stand up and say no. >> it's striking how some on the left don't see any problem with what the irs did. here's the former head of the tax division. >> i couldn't find anything that suggested the irs had acted inappropriately. acted perhaps ineffectively in a couple of places but not inappropriately. >> i haven't seen what they did wrong. they are supposed to evaluate how much political activity 501 c 4 wants to engage in.
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>> no problem. >> no proemfine. the fact that those guys can stand up and say that to me is astonishing. but it also in my opinion gives such great opportunity for the people of this country to stand up and say no more. no more. >> we will hope that will happen. thank you brook rollins. coming up, more ways your privacy is invaded and back to the nsa data mining which i admit, i don't mind that much. i'll try to get educated by a libertarian i admire. >> i don't think this is john stossel. i think it's an imposter. when you experience something great, you want to share it. with everyone. that's why more customers recommend verizon, america's largest 4g lte network.
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♪ i'm furious at my government all the time. on my web page, i posted this list of 100 things that enrage me about government's overreach. the irs bias against tea party groups. that's disgusting. farm subsidies, benghazi, corporate welfare. the minimum wage.
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it's all disgusting. i could go on 100 times. in fact, i could probably get to 200. but government computers scanning everybody's phone records to see patterns that might lead to terrorists? i'm conflicted about that. >> napolitano says i should be furious. >> i think you should be furious because you have natural rights that come from our humanity, among which is the right to be left alone, to preserve the right to privacy. >> want to be left alone by terrorists? >> also by the government. because if the government doesn't leave you alone, you will have no privacy and people do not behave normally, naturally or to their full extent when they're being watched by the government and then need the government's permission. when the government knows every phone call we make from where we make the call to whom we make the call, how long the call was, where they were and can plug
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that into their algorithms, they can predict all kinds of behavior about us and they're not entitled to it without a search warrant. >> i still don't personally feel the threat. i give up this private information, much more to google and facebook. >> but do you so willingly and decide not to deal with google. >> government it's forced. >> correct. it's forced. now you're coming around, john. you cannot avoid the government. >> facebook can't lock me up or assassinate me. but my information is out there. when you say they can look at all this, i figure it's a kid interseptd tg in the air -- >> your information is not out there. it's flying through the air, these electronic waves. don't you assume media matters is hacking some of your information? >> but media matters does not protect me from the government. the fourth amendment does. media matters, like fox news, just like google and facebook, are free to do things that the
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government is not free to do. that's why we have this fourth amendment to keep the government out of our bank books and out of our bedrooms and frankly, john off our backs. which is worse? that a renegade former spy divulged truth about government law breaking or that government officials lie about what he exposed? >> and picking up on your which is worst theme for something else, i have anger fatigue. is this worse than our $17 trillion debt than the drug war, than what we've done to american indians and so on? >> i don't know if it is worse than that. but it could lead to something that's worse than that. >> could lead. slippery slope. >> yes, of course, to the slippery slope. a single phone call in the computer of a single spy is innocuous. but all of our phone calls in there, revealing everything about ourselves, exposing our innermost thoughts and behavior to the government will eventually turn sbous east germany where the government knows who did wrong and the
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government who knows who knows who did wrong and the government prosecutes people who didn't squeal on their neighbors. in the last five years of that society, the most frequently prosecuted crime was the failure to turn in one's neighbor. do we really want that society here? that's what this will bring us here. >> no, we do not. what do you say about two respected libertarians. you know who they are, roger pa lon and rich -- they would be critical if they could identify a pattern of abuses. after 12 years of continuing practices, they can't cite a single case. >> they are friends of mine and friends and colleagues of yours. we disagree profoundly. if seizing the private thoughts of every american is not a pattern of government abuse, i don't know what is. think of it this way. the government's powers consenting from -- did you consent to this? do you know anybody who did? >> people at the terrorism fear is overblown but people who are
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frightened consent to this. >> they can consent to it for themselves but not for the rest of us. thank you. >> here's what our president said in response to criticism about the nsa spying. >> if people can't trust not only the executive branch but also don't trust congress and don't trust federal judges to make sure we're abiding by the constitution, due process and rule of law, then we're going to have some problems here. >> an absolute canard. after benghazi, the associated press, the rosen affair, nobody trusts the administration. who would trust congress when they, like senator widen, whose heart is in the right place were told what the nsa was doing but took an oath not to reveal it. who would trust the judges who granted 99.6% of every application sought before it. >> who else do we have for oversight but congress and the federal judges? >> transparency. when the public knows what's going on, the government will be afraid to trample our rights.
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the government has created a bizarre system of secret courts and secret information to the congress. congressmen know about it. they can't tell anybody about it or vote about it. >> fine. it's based on secrecy. >> they can spy on foreigners all they want, but i didn't authorize the government to spy on me and you didn't authorize this government to spy on you. >> no, i did not. i wonder if there's not a justification in nsa spying. thank you, judge. i'll keep trying to learn from you and others. up next, often big brother wants more than our records. he wants our pictures, too. more and more surveillance cameras watch us. i've gotten used to that too. am i a complacent dope? we debate that, next. ready?
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help save us from another attack. are you okay with more surveillance? >> yeah, i don't want to get bombed. >> i don't either. if cameras discourage that, catch bombers, help stop other crime too, murders and robberies, i would say that's good. but the cameras are also a form of big brother watching all the time. they watch. sheriff russ martin says the loss of privacy is worth it. we're safer because of cameras. no, we're not, says ginger mccall. the cameras don't work. she's with the electronic privacy information center. ginger, what do you mean they don't work? i assume they catch bad guys. >> historically, the cameras are neither effective at preventing crime or solving crime particularly. >> what do you mean? they are. it's how we found the boston marathon bombers. >> well, actually it isn't necessarily how we found the boston marathon bombers. there were a lot of things going
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on. eyewitness identifications, surveillance cameras that were privately owned. not government owned surveillance cameras and eventually the fingerprints of the older brother. there in boston, there are government owned surveillance cameras and it did nothing to prevent the bombing. and in london, one of the most heavily surveilled cities in the world. >> london is remarkable. 500,000 government cameras in london. they called it the ring much steel. the closest comparison is chicago with 10,000 cameras versus 500,000. but in london, they had a bombing. they had an attempted bombing that didn't work. and from that, pictures are what caught the bombers before they could do it a third time. i'd call that a success. >> well, not necessarily a success. again, if the cameras were really successful. there would be no crime in london, no bombings in london. and they're certainly not
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successful at preventing crime. >> that's a high standard. what's the harm in having government cameras? >> these cameras reveal private information. they reveal private information about where you go, who you go with, associational information. who you spend your time with. if they can record audio, if they're cameras that record video, they can record you going into the gay bar, the abortion clinic. any number of places you would probably not want other people to know that you're going. >> sheriff martin, what about that? >> well, i think ginger is missing the point here, john. as a matter of fact, i think the boston bombers were prevented from committing other offenses in your own city in new york. so that video surveillance helped to identify the suspects and although perhaps it didn't prevent that initial offense, you're preventing offenses down the road. i think it's an effective tool for law enforcement. >> now, i want to point out here that in the instance of boston, it was not, again, government
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owned cameras that ended up helping to identify the suspects. it was cameras that were owned by private companies and private individuals. >> and law enforcement would tell you, we're less concerned about whether public cameras or privately held cameras. the fact that they're cap tufrd toured on video. it's effective. >> sheriff martin, i should disclose i have a nepotism connection here. he's the father of my assistant alex here in the studio. that shouldn't affect the content. we just thought you'd be a good spokesman. what do you say about the examples of abuse, a san francisco police officer, he used surveillance cameras to ogle women. zooming in on couples embracing and fondling on rooftops in alabama. the cameras zoomed in on the breasts and buttocks of several young women. >> the police officers involved in an automobile crash, do we take all police cars away from the officers? absolutely not.
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those are individual incidents. those officers need to be disciplined through the administrative process. so you don't take away the technology because of a single incidents of abuse. >> thank you, sheriff martin and ginger mccall. coming up, when it comes to government spying, some people say if you have nothing to hide, what are you worried about? >> there is plenty to worry about. government like everyone, makes mistakes and government mistakes are more serious because government can take away your freedom. this oregon man and his daughter will tell us the terrible thing that happened to their family. you thought this beach couldn't get any more tempting... ... you thought wrong. seize the summer with up to 50% off hotels at travelocity.
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for a store near you go to one reason i'm not that upset yet about the nsa tracking my phone calls is that i've already given up much of my privacy. google and facebook have access to all kinds of private information about me. but there is a big difference between google, facebook, you-tube and government. facebook can't jail me or assassinate me. government might. people say, well, if you're not doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about. but brandon mayfield and his daughter did nothing wrong. they live in oregon, never been to spain. but after terrorists bombed
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trains in spain, the fbi became convinced that brandon's fingerprint was on a bag of detonators found at the scene. what followed was a nightmare. sharia, you were 12 at the time. what happened? >> yes. i was in school on that day, may 6, 2004. i got picked up by my older brother. was called into the office. he told me in a very grim voice, let's go outside right now. i said, well, what's going on? he said, let's just go outside. so i walked outside with him. and he looked at me and said, dad was arrested by the fbi. and i was in total shock. i thought it was a joke. i said good one bro. he kept walking. when we reached the van where my mother was, she was bawling inside. i knew it was no joke. >> brandon, you stayed in jail for two weeks. >> yeah. i got a knock on the door and there was a big burly individual, kind of short hair
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crew cut, dim intiff female saying they wanted to talk to me. originally, i thought they were solicitors. i said i'm not interested, thank you. they identified that they were from the fbi. they showed their badges. i noticed that they had holsters at their sides with guns. and i wasn't particularly surprised at that point to be questioned by the fbi. >> because you're a muslim. >> i had just moved to the portland community and i was hearing stories from other muslim that is they, too, were being asked to talk to the fbi, being questioned by them. even followed. >> sharia, even before that, you thought something weird was going on in your house. >> yeah. i had a creeping suspicion that people were watching us before this event occurred. potentially, even a year or more before it occurred, and especially the few months after the attacks.
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>> why? >> one of the biggest giveaways for me was a hard drive that was taken out of my compute he desktop in my bedroom and not put back in properly. i was only 12 so i don't know how computers worked very well. i didn't know back then. but i was aware that someone had been tamper wg my computer hard drive and the screws were not put back in properly. >> we learned later that they had almost 300 photographs of items and documents in our house. they had perused our house when we were not there. on more than one occasion and looked at our hard drives, they had taken fingernail clippings, dna samples, rummaged through our garbage, cigarette butts. >> how did they get your fingerprints? you had never been to spain, your passport expired. why you? >> actually, i enlisted in the military in 1984. i actually went back in as an officer through the rotc
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scholarship program, the green to gold program, invariably i was fingerprinted. i even had a secret clearance at one point. even worked for a military intelligence unit. so had an application for -- >> ironic. >> yeah. it is ironic. and apparently, they had -- they allegedly found -- they actually found a latent fingerprint. latent print number 17 on a blue bag that contained detonators in a white van outside of the train station where the madrid train bombing occurred. and that latent was then photographed and it was sent to various agencies around the world. including the fbi's fingerprint examination unit in quantico, virginia. >> two fbi examiners agreed, the fingerprint matched yours.
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>> i think it was actually three agreed. >> an independent expert also agreed. so you must have been the bomber? >> yeah. they said that they had 15 points of comparison. which is a pretty strong match. unbeknownst to us -- and we did not learn until l they had actually -- the spanish police were diligently doing their criminal investigation, and they were looking at the prints, and they said it wasn't a match. >> and my experience is when the police make a mistake, they almost never even say sorry. but in this case, at least, the fbi apologized to you. they wrote a letter, the fbi apologizes to mr. mayfield and his family for the hardships that this matter caused." and they paid you $2 million. >> i have to give them credit. i mean, that counts for something. i mean, i grew up in the midwest. and a handshake and somebody's word goes a long way. so i appreciate that. but one of the things that
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people forget is, we weren't going to agree to anything. i'm saying myself and my family, we discussed it. we weren't going to agree unless we were able to challenge provisions of the patriot act which amended the foreign intelligence surveillance act which made it possible for the government to do what they did. not only did they have a warrant for my arrest and search on the day i was arrested, they also had secret warrants from a secret court that allowed them do to go in and do all the snooping and spying that they did, even though they didn't have probable cause to arrest me. as you said earlier in your segment, you use facebook. you use google. you aseem people are looking at your data but you don't think they're going to come after you. the government does and they did. >> you could say given the happy ending that people worried about the nsa spying, look, this is the worst case we could find, what happened to you, and they apologized and gave you $2 million. maybe we shouldn't fear the
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government. >> i'd like to chime in there. my biggest concern after my dad was released and continues until today is that these policies are continuing to exist. and it's not so much that my dad was a victim of the government's policies, but i like to say he was symptomatic of the sort of policies we have now. so if it can happen to him it can happen to others. it may be and we don't know about it. until our fourth amendment rights is restored i'm not going to be satisfied with just an apology. i have to see actions taken to show this will never happen again to anyone. >> thank you, sharia, brandon, we're out of time for this. cominging up since i'm hammered by libertarians i'll explain why i'm less bothered by the nsa than i am about other things on this horrible list. my list of 100 nasty things government does. ♪
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john: when the nsa data mining was rev when the nsa data mining was revealed i felt threatened. they secretly vacuum up data we thought was private. i don't want my government to know everything about me. some things ought to be private. the government says it data helped them prevent 50 terrorist incidents?
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50? i don't believe it. bureaucrats always exaggerate the value of their work. why would this be different? because it's the homeland security state? no, people keeping secrets are more prone to embellish. the spies say what they do is constitutional. federal judges approve everything. they won't abuse this power. i don't trust them. they always abuse power. as one rig ertearian blogger put it "we're all going to suffer from the powers of the nsa if we don't check them now." then other libertarians defended the spying pointing out national security is an area government is still desperately needed. data mining is less intrusive on individuals than routine airport security." i quickly had this list of 100 things. i encourage you to start your own list revealing how easy it is to get to 100 and well beyond
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that. now, some of these are less invasive than data mining, but all are horrible! these do get me worked up. the fact that government grew so much that it now employs 22 million americans? outrageous! i'm furious about our debt, and continued deficit spending for things like $100 million presidential trips. and dubious pork. and programs that don't work. the drug war causes crime, and imprisons millions of americans. disproportionately minorities. that's horrible! so is corporate welfare and farm subsidies and the flood insurance that help people like me. government keeping american indians poor by smothering them with socialist central planning. that's evil! so is too big to fail and just having 170,000 pages of federal law that we're all supposed to obey.
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i'm infuriated by more than this list of 100 things that government does. but data mining compared to all these other abuses? i needed to learn more about that. and for saying that, libertarians now call me disgusting and an lino. libertarian in name only. some agree with my list, but they also agree with the blogger who wrote "the existence of worst violations is not a reason to dismiss pretty damn bad ones." and that's true. i don't dismiss the danger in data mining. i don't. but keep it in perspective. why is a newly discovered threat immediately declared much more outrageous than all these old ones? it's not. the nsa argument at least has two sides. terrorists do want to kill us. if any terrorism is prevented by something as impersonal as data mining, the end may justify the means. so i say the jury's out on the nsa. government does plenty of other
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things that free people are right to be furious about. and we'll keep reporting on them. that's our show. thanks for watching. and now here is my friend, the governor. tonight on" huckabee" edward snowden's been charged with espionage and called a traitor. but now that the russians are playing hardball he's not that big a deal? >> i'm not going to be scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker. >> why is the rest of the world defying the leader of the free world? >> our enemies have absolutely no respect for us. >> and the senate passes immigration reform. >> 40,000 border patrol agents, $4 billion of technology backing them up, 700 miles offense completed. >> i.c.e. agents are not satisfied. tonight their unifor leader explains w


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