tv Outnumbered FOX News May 13, 2020 9:00am-10:00am PDT
more. >> sandra: absolutely. and we met rufus the dog, as well, right? >> ed: i want to do what he was doing, take a nap. >> sandra: [laughs] will be back tomorrow at 9:00 a.m. eastern. thanks for joining us. to be 21 starts now. to be when we begin with this fox news alert. the trump administration is sounding the alarm about china, warning hackers tied to the communist chinese government are working to steal our u.s. research on vaccines and treatment for the coronavirus. the fbi and dhs, in a joint statement just today, saying china's efforts to target these sectors poses a significant threat to our nation's response to covid-19. chief white house correspondent john roberts with the very latest on this for us. john? >> harris, good afternoon to you. this morning, dhs's cybersecurity and infrastructure security agency, together with the fbi, pointed a very big finger at china in terms of trying to hack our research organizations who are looking
into coronavirus. in a public service announcement, there were warning u.s. organizations researching coronavirus that they are likely being targeted by chinese government cyber hackers. the agency is charging that china is trying to steal research information on the virus treatments and vaccines. it is public advisory. the agency is warning researchers to secure their networks, saying, "these actors have been observed attempting to identify and illicitly obtain valuable intellectual property and public health data related to vaccines, treatments, and testing. the potential theft of this information jeopardizes the delivery of secure, effective, and efficient treatment options." president trump has been very critical of china for not being forthcoming about the origins of the pandemic. south carolina senator lindsey graham has introduced a bill to impose sanctions on china if it fails to cooperate and provide a full accounting of the events leading up to the pandemic. georgia congressman doug collins, on that earlier this morning on fox. listen here.
>> china deceived the world while people were dying. they were taking precautions inside their own borders while yet peopl letting people go international. it's time for an investigation led by the u.s. and others to make sure they, number one, go forward with what actually happened. and we hold them accountable. the chinese officials who did this, they need to be in a position where they can be sanctioned, their assets frozen, those are the kind of things we are looking at. >> using the economic impact of the pandemic to try to get a better trade deal with the united states, than the one it had agreed to. last year the president saying he is not interested in reopening negotiations. at least not at this point. the president tightening the screws even further, directing the federal retirement thrift board to not invest in any stock funds that have ties to chinese companies. that means about $4.5 billion that might have gone into stocks, interest in china, will stay and other investments. likely the united states. but the president clearly
indicating again, harris, in so many different ways, just how unhappy he is with china about all of this. though he has, and still remains to be, very, very cautious about actually criticizing china's president, xi jinping. harris? the one >> harris: john robertssetting , thank you. you're watching "outnumbered." i'm harris faulkner. here today, melissa francis. gillian turner, fox's correspondent. lara logan, a host of "lara logan has no agenda," on fox nation. and in the center seat, david asman from fox business. he's "outnumbered" and also a friend. so good to see you. >> david: great to see you. >> harris: lets out with where we are, david, in china. i don't think there's any shocker that the investigations continue per federal government and others looking into what china has been doing throughout this pandemic. we will get new information. i also don't think of them trying to steal from us his name. >> david: right. >> harris: you couple that altogether right now, it's potentially really, really not good news. >> david: well, it's a
question of whether -- we know at the very least they are guilty of criminal negligence in terms of what they didn't tell us, what they didn't tell the world about what was going on, or what they did tell the world, which turned out to be a lie. but this -- they have been taking steps beyond that, to what i'd say would be deliberate efforts to literally infect the world. what representative collins just said is something similar to what jack keane has said. general keane, i think all of us would agree, is a very good source of information. he is a credible source of information and an unbiased source. he said the fact that they were allowing international travel from wuhan when they knew the virus was infecting from humans to humans and they were preventing people from wuhan from moving within china, it showed there was a deliberate attempt -- or appeared to be a deliberate attempt -- to infect the rest of the world while protecting themselves. what do you do with people like that?
that is -- if not an act of war, that's at least something close to it. at least something deserving of extreme sanctions of some sort. now, we are still dealing with them, we can't ignore them as a trading partner. they have a trillion dollars worth of our debt. there's a lot of damage that they can do to us economically when we are as vulnerable as we've ever been. of course they are, as well, and their reports are coming out of china there's another close-down. gee whiz, when are we going to learn that these people just cannot be trusted? >> harris: first clue, they are called communists. i want to come to you, gillian. when you talk about this idea of, "what can we do next?" jon huntsman, a former ambassador to china, was telling me this week we need to start thinking more independent leave when i come to china. i will paraphrase him. " in every land, not just pharmaceuticals. becoming much more independent economically. they have a lot of our debt.
maybe the idea is you let it sit with them in some sort of a penalty here. what have you been gathering about what we could do? >> gillian: first of all, just a quick reminder that there is this intelligence investigation ongoing. source after source after source, harris, over the last month and a half i've been covering this, have told fox news -- intelligent sources -- they've told us that they are nearing close to 100% certainty that china's communist party covered up the true extent of the outbreak of the virus inside china. now we are getting new evidence, including this order it from the fbi and dhs, that not only did they cover up the true extent of the outbreak, but they are now going around the world and actively trying to take advantage of virus victims. this is important evidence that the intelligence community can use in their findings when they present them to president trump. to answer your question, lots of different moves afoot among
house republicans on the hill. i spoke to congressman mike walls over the weekend, i spoke to the dhs secretary last night. both of them told me they are looking at ways to push back now on the number of student visas given to china. they say that hundreds of thousands are given on an annual basis. they are looking to cut down that number. not to penalize china's citizens and the students that want to come here to the united states, but to penalize the communist party because the students are very important research arm for them. they use them, they take advantage of them when they're here in the united states to help glean insight to u.s. research facilities and steal intellectual property. >> harris: lara, your top line on that? i'm curious to know what you think about those people coming into our country, us stamping down potentially on those visas, and what that means for china. >> well, you are exactly right when you said it should be no surprise for anyone that china
is trying to steal anything from the u.s. because china has been stealing from the u.s. and other countries across the world for decades. look what they did with cell technology. what is not getting as much attention, and certainly merits age, is the americans who are helping them do it. right? whether you are the professor at harvard who was charged, and another professor who is now in court over the same charges, and you are sharing information with china, or whether you are a u.s. company who has taken advantage of all the benefits that china offers, and you are not being honest about the fact that if you are operating inside of china you are giving the communist party all of your technology, systems, and everything else that goes along with it. and then this very, very successful arm of the chinese intelligence agency, which is to use young students and any chinese people who come to do business in america, and to exploit them. they are not given any choice
about this, most of the time. you're young chinese student, and that communist party ask you questions, you answer those questions. whether they are willing or not willing is not the point. you will get, "oh, it's racist to say this about poor, innocent little tiny students." you can already hear the propagandists coming after everyone on the show, right? now, this is not about whether or not you're a good person or whether you're innocent or not. this is about the power of the communist party, and what they have done very successfully is infiltrate many different aspects of american society with the assistance of u.s. citizens. either knowingly complicit or unknowingly. that has been extremely successful for the chinese. they don't allow u.s. citizens to go over in the hundreds of thousands, do they? that's because they know -- >> harris: they wouldn't even let us take a close look at the pandemic early on. they still won't let us come in and take a look at the pandemic and what they're doing. you're absolutely right about
that. melissa, i want to come to you on "the wall street journal"'s reporting that chinese art hacking, maybe tampering with the search for the current of virus vaccine. that hits us in a whole different way. >> melissa: it really does. at the very least, it slows down our research. for people to then be worried about defending it, at the very least. obviously, at the most, they steal some of the secrets. lara is absolutely right, that really count my attention, that harvard chemistry professor that the fbi is investigating. i want to know more about that, because it's someone that was at the university for a very long time. so you want to know, was there something there? if so, how did china get their claws and from a distance? was about money? how did that go under the radar? how did we not know more about that, and how could they do it again? i think you have to start with, too, back in october, we are now
finding the streets around that wuhan lab, there were no sales signals going back and forth at all, which implies the streets are shut down and that something happened in october at that lab. we need to know what that is, and if china doesn't tell us, the whole world knows they are once again not cooperating and not helping. >> harris: that list is getting longer, it would seem, by the day. a judge's surprise moves to delay the doj request to drop charges against mike flynn. what that judge did which is now drawing some heavy criticism. ♪ it's a new day for veterans all across america. home values are up, and mortgage rates are at record lows. that's good news for veterans with va loans. that's me. by using your va streamline refi benefit, one call to newday usa can save you $2,000 a year. that's me. there's no income verification, no appraisal, and no out of pocket costs. that's me. put your va home loan benefits to good use.
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moved to dismiss his criminal case against former national security advisor michael flynn. u.s. district judge emmet sullivan says he will instead let outside individuals and groups away and with their opinions, which is a rare move in a criminal prosecution. judge sullivan had previously refused to hear such briefs. a former u.s. attorney slamming the judge's move, saying it smacks of political activism. >> this is an outrageous decision by a judge who has no place himself into that awful category of an activist who is willing to set aside rules and just go in a direction because he is politically motivated to do so. >> melissa: lara, i want to start with you on this one, because you have more color on this judge's background in terms of these briefs in the past. >> lara: well, what you said, melissa, was exactly right. that he has refused to entertain any outside opinions in favor of
michael flynn during the entire case. not once, not ten times, not 15 times, but 23 separate amicus briefs on 23 separate occasions he denied any outside opinions. now that there is one filed that is not in favor of michael flynn, now he is entertaining it. perhaps the most telling part of all of this is that you literally have the prosecution in this case withdrawn. the department of justice, they are the legal arm that brings prosecution. they have withdrawn from michael flynn's case. they dropped all the charges. and this judge is continuing to try the case. but he's not doing it with the legal teams that have been involved in this. he's opening it up to anyone's political enemies, to anyone with political interests, to all the people who were complicit in this who have a vested interest in hiding and concealing their actions. it is absolutely outrageous, and
they are trying to string it out, to muddy the waters. they're going to be out there in the press, they are going to try and convict michael flynn over and over and over again, even though the department of justice has admitted and the transcripts themselves prove that there was no legal case against michael flynn. there was no legal basis to investigate him. and, they violated the law. they withheld exculpatory information. they did not afford him his miranda rights. if a policeman stops you, every american citizen, you are entitled that they are going to arrest you to have your rights read to you. are you not? why is michael flynn not entitled to the same standard of justice? right now he's like a gladiator in the ring, okay? and they have opened every gate, and they are unleashing the lions and the demons and the dragons and everything at him so they can have a pound of flesh. but is not about michael flynn, it's not even about president trump. this case is about the rule of
law, and it's about upholding the constitution of the united states. anyone who tries to spin you into this political abyss, arguing one thing or another, the transcripts of the evidence. read the evidence. it's out there for everyone to see. >> david: can i throw in my two bits? i agree exactly with what lara is saying. everything is true. but there are two things in flynn's favor. one is that these transcripts keep coming out, there will be more stuff coming out in the next few days and weeks to come about the way in which this was a perjury trap and perhaps other people that were involved in this may be going right up to the top to president obama come maybe and vice president biden. the other thing he has in his favor is sidney powell. she's his new lawyer, and she is dynamite. she's the one who got all this information released. he has winds blowing in his favor, even if the judge has put up a wind trap right now that might stop the momentum from
going further. because the momentum, i think, is still in general flynn's favor. speech all right come in the meantime, acting chief richard grenell has declassified information about obama administration officials who would be behind the masking of flynn. now the tensions appear to be emerging between the office of the director of national intelligence and the justice department over who should make the call on whether to actually release the documents publicly. justice officially tells fox news they currently have no plans to release that list of names, adding that the identity is the owner of that information, and if they want to release that they can do so. kt mcfarland served as flynn's deputy on the national security council. >> documents are coming out now, not only in the testimonies that were before the house intelligence committee, but also in the charges against flynn and
others. they were telling lies from the get-go and from the beginning they knew they were lies. and yet, the per citizen. my question is why, and who was in on it? went to the no, and when do they know it? with her that susan rice, director comey, vice president biden. or even president obama. i'm not accusing them, but i think it's time for the american people to know what was going on and what was going on, an how hh up it went. >> harris: gillian, you've been doing great reporting on this. fill us in. >> gillian: thanks, melissa. to be clear, there is an impasse right now between the justice department and the odni, ric grenell. we have been told as of this morning there are certain justice department officials that don't agree with the way ric grenell is going about this process. here's the ground truth, melissa. as the acting dni, he has the authority to "unmask" the
identities of american officials. he is allowed to reveal those identities to other government officials who are requesting the information. what is not legally clear as of now is whether ric grenell also has the ability and the legal authority to release those names to the american public. some of our intelligence sources say he is pushing the bounds of the law, maybe stepping into illegal territory here, because there is no compelling national security reason, imminent national security threat, that is compelling him to put those names down. even inside the intelligence community, they are saying he absolutely has a compelling national security reason to do this. he is not playing politics. this is what's going to get hashed out now by capitol hill. key lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are now calling for hearings to find out exactly what went into ric grenell's decision-making process about this. he is obviously the only person
that can make that clear to everybody. hopefully he'll do that at some kind of a public hearing soon. just to be clear, the reason doj is not putting these names out to the public, which they could, is because a lot of folks there are not on board with the fact that ric grenell is trying to do this. >> melissa: can cannot just clarify for a second? what we are talking about is unmasking the unmask her, right? we are talking about revealing the names of the person or people who identified flynn. why is that significant? >> melissa: well, here's the deal , melissa -- government officials, when they are reading intelligence documents, the names of americans and the sacraments are redacted, blacket to protect their identity. this is because what they are looking at his foreign intelligence surveillance inside those documents. they are not supposed to be looking at what americans are doing. if somebody in the federal government is reading the document and wants to know the identity of somebody who has been redacted, they can request
from the intelligence community that they "unmask" that person's identity. ric grenell's lab to get that information to requesters if he deems it appropriate. what people are arguing about now is whether he can take the additional step of releasing that information publicly, if that makes sense. >> melissa: interesting paid all right, well, i know you'll stay on top of the story and give us the latest, for sure. >> lara: just to declare if i come he is declassified, not unmasking. >> melissa: okay. as house democrats move closer on their relief package, details ahead. >> it's dead as fried chicken in the senate. it is dead as fried chicken with the american people, once they find out what's in it. ♪
♪ >> harris: house democrats are moving ahead with a massive $3 trillion coronavirus relief package with a vote expected on friday. the bill includes better truly dollars for cash strapped states and cities hit hard b by the coronavirus pandemic. it also includes another round of stimulus payments along with rent subsidies, pausing student loan payments, and more. here is house
speaker nancy pelosi. >> it's a big ticket, it's a lot of money. american people are worth it. we see the administration bolstering the stock market with some of its policies, with the low interest rates. the chairman of the fed says to us, that the interest rates will never be lower. so we are thinking big. >> harris: however, senate republicans are ripping the plan, including democrats of pushing a partisan agenda ahead of focusing on the crisis. >> it is socking it to the american people, cynically saying, "we are here to help you," but instead trying to fill a left-wing agenda. it said on the arrival in the united states senate. the question is, how do we get something that truly meets the american needs without being counterproductive? >> harris: david, i'm reading the president and senate republicans also object to this democratic proposal. that there hasn't been enough time since the true trillion
dollar care's act passed to determine what really is needed. i'm curious why that's an argument went just a couple weeks ago they were saying the democrats were moving past that. which is it? >> david: a lot of crazy stuff, by the way. it's bad enough the trillion dollars going to responsible state and local governments. melissa and i live in a state and a city that have two of those governments, and we see their wasteful spending. they should be bailed out what they're doing for the past four or five or six years. as also bailouts for lobbyists. speaker pelosi said the american people are worth it. our lobbyists were if it? one of the things he wants to do is expand ppp, the paycheck protection program, to include 501c6 organizations with 300 or fewer employees. but an irs filing has shown that almost all the giant corporate trade lobbyists inside the
beltway are 501c6 with fewer than 300 employees. are those, the americans that taxpayers want to pay out? >> harris: melissa, the hard fact that stands between us and the future every week is that unemployment number. i mean, it just looms large. it's 14.7% after last week. what truly is the best match from the federal government, for lowering that number? is it another stimulus package? is it something else? >> melissa: i love that question, because it's a brilliant way to frame what we should and shouldn't be doing. when i look at this money, i think everyone can probably make a case for why they are hurting as a result of the coronavirus and why they need federal help. what the government should do is the best way to help people is to get them back to work. that means the money in this bill should be focused on helping people get back to work,
and that alone. when i see things like, for example, the money in here, the $50 million to study the link between pollution and the coronavirus, i'm sure somebody wants to study that and they should. maybe they should do that at a university. but we shouldn't be putting money in this bill right now for that. we should be focusing on our efforts on how we make it safe for businesses to reopen and people to get back to work. then we can work on the other stuff. because that right now, i think, is the most important feature. >> harris: that's an interesting example. i want to double down with you just for a second, melissa. i know you're looking closer at these things, as we all are. but money is your thing. what about this idea? you say you want to get everybody back to work, and we all want that. [laughs] that should be a partisan thing. can we not spend money on studying the pollution issue? with the universities and colleges do that, perhaps, in this gap. but take money and find out what businesses or corporations need
in terms of research to help them reopen. maybe not a top-down edict or guideline approach, but just help them out with that research. say, "look, this is what masks really do in a meat-packing plant." i don't know, i'm just trying to think outside the box. since they're going to spend our taxpayer money anyway, maybe we do it to get back to work. >> melissa: absolutely. and i think that one of the things, when you talk to businesses individually, and i say to them, "what do you need?" they say, "i can figure out how to make my work are safe but i'm willing to take money out my pocket and do that." larry kudlow has said that if you spend money trying to help your employees return safely, that should be deductible right out of the gate. that makes a lot of sense. but they can't control is the public transportation is that the workers take from their homes the office, is that safe? are the subways clean? on the bus is clean? about the stuff the government can work on and spend money on and focus on. businesses are the best ones to
focus inside their own company, how to get up and running. >> harris: yeah. i just want everybody to know, during the commercials when we are physically together, this is how melissa and i go back and forth. [laughs] we get into it! >> melissa: very true! >> harris: we are going to scoot. [laughs] "the new york times" says one of its very own reporters went too far in criticizing the trump administration's handling of the covid-19 pandemic. what exactly was said, and where that paper stands now. ♪ interest rates have dropped to record lows. newday usa makes it so easy to refinance that one call can save you $2000 a year. newday's va streamline refi lets you refinance without having to verify your income, without getting your home appraised and without spending one dollar out of pocket to get it done. it is the quickest and easiest refi they've ever offered.
>> melissa: "the new york times" says one of its reporters went too far after the papers in science and health reporter, donald mcneil, bash the president in the white house coronavirus task force yesterd yesterday. >> we completely blew it for the first two months of our response. we were in a headless chicken phase, and yes, it's the
president's fault. it's not china's fault. >> melissa: howard kurtz joins us with more on this. how he >> melissa, too far is an understatement. he's a veteran health reporter, three decades of "the new york times," and he went way over the line into spewing anti-trump and antiadministration opinions. christiane amanpour, he saw some of that just now. he also said the cdc is incompetently led, and that director robert redfield should to resign. something had never heard a beat reporter come close to saying, at least not in front of a camera. he accused the president of a cover-up and also said this about donald trump. >> this is the same guy who said "inject yourself with disinfectant." ultraviolet lights in your lungs. this is not somebody who grasps of the science at even a third grade level. >> even third grade level. finally, mcneil said it was a mistake for the president to
take the health task force, the virus task force, away from hhs secretary alex azar. and give it to, of course, mike pence. who he called a sycophant. here's their statement. "he went too far in his personal views paid editors are discussed issue with him, to reiterate that his job is to report the facts and not offer his own opinions. we are confident is reporting has been an scrupulously fair and accurate." melissa? >> melissa: interesting. howard kurtz, thank you so much. david, i will come to you first. i think this is fascinating. i'm not sure everyone is used to if you express your opinion, that you need to have the facts right behind it that very much backs up that opinion. or folks are going to come after you. i think we are used to that at fox. go ahead, what are your thoughts on it? third grade science cannot go
ahead. >> david: right. well, you can go by even the science analysis that this guy was doing if you want to call it that or just look at what they've been doing in other instances. for months, for even years, the media was coding people in terms of the russian collusion story that were saying something completely different from what they were telling investigators under oath, about whether there was russian collusion in the trump campaign. i mean, the media outlets, do they care at all about whether their prime sources are tearing them the truth were not? i don't think they do anymore. it is a sad commentary on journalism, but i am glad they corrected themselves. or at least tried to correct this one reported. but there are so many instances of where it's happened, you just throw up your hands and say, "when is it going to change?" >> melissa: lara, is this a standout in your your mind? i think david's point is this isn't that unusual.
>> lara: david is right. you have to look at this in the context of what "the new york times" and most of the media has been doing for years now. this is a moment for all of us reporters to stand up for journalism and stand up for our profession. and just admit that on every single page of "the new york times" opinion is infused with facts. that is happening all across the media, and has been happening in a very serious way with very serious consequences for a long time. just look at what happened with the attorney general, william barr's comments that were cut in half on the sunday talk show, when chuck todd went after him. these are not accidents. i mean, come on, people. give me a break. at this point and where we are, take a look at the facts. how come "the new york times" never makes a mistake that supports the trump administration? how come no other people does that, as well? how come nobody cares about the
fact that you let a pulitzer prize for a story that was 100% false, and then went back to the same sources and give them a platform and let them justify and defend their actions? that reporters don't know what the law says. they report on laws and they don't even know what they say. one important point to make he here, ric grenell, he's not unmasking anybody. he doesn't have to follow those rules. he has to follow the law of declassification. he's declassified and the names of people who did this. why? because samantha powers said under oath in her testimony that hundreds of people who were in a mask under her name, that she didn't have anything to do with that and she didn't know who di. there is something wrong that actually occurred. the people who unmasked michael flynn violated his fourth amendment rights. this is about the rights to privacy and the constitution of the united states. that's why you can't put the identity of u.s. citizens, because we don't have the legal
rights to surveilled our citizens the way we do foreign diplomats. when somebody leaked that information to the press, they committed a crime. they leaked classified information, and that's a felony. that's what we have to be looking at here. what journalists are doing is allowing people to spin them and allowing them to obfuscate the truth. and they are focusing on other things. the times but their opinion in the paper every single day. this apology is a joke. >> melissa: all right. on that note, residents in los angeles could be spending their entire summer indoors because of the coronavirus. what the county's public health director just announced, and whether other major cities could follow suit. ♪
>> harris: los angeles county health officials announced yesterday -- and i mean, he lit up twitter -- that the city would likely keep it stay-at-home orders in place for three additional months until august. public health director barbara ferrer say it will take some "dramatic change" before the lockdown can be lifted. this is both l.a.'s mayor and
the county supervisor say some coronavirus restrictions could be lifted and phases. meanwhile, l.a. county beaches are reopening today, but only for people wishing to exercise. meaning, no basking in the sunlight. and, in northern california, governor gavin newsom has given seven counties the go-ahead to open up after meeting conditions to do so. gillian turner, they said that this would be a slow rollout for this. they weren't kidding. there are 58 counties in california, we are only talking like fewer than ten. >> gillian: the first question that comes to my mind, harris, when i heard about these lockdown order staying in place for another three months, what businesses are going to be left to even start to reopen three months from now? the county has been completely decimated by the shutdown that's been in place. not to say they shouldn't have stay-at-home orders, but when you tell people it's going to be another three months, think about the economic impact of that on these local businesses.
that county in particular has a whole host of mom-and-pop shops, small farmers, all kinds of local groceries, that rely on daily interaction with customers in order to keep going. they are getting completely shut down by this virus. part of the problem here, too, and the reason why this "lit up twitta" as you said as they've combined this with the fact that they are also seeking to empty out county jails of criminals while filling them back up with people they are arresting while they are sunbathing. a lot of the policies don't make any common sense, and i think that's what folks are reacting to. >> harris: and, david, that's an excellent point, they are. but i also think of the burgeoning homeless population that we've been covering as journalists in the state of california. i'm wondering, during the lockdown's, what is being done for all of them? sadly, are they roaming on their own? is anybody supporting them? there are so may people they could be concentrating on!
>> david: i can only tell you, in new york, yes. it's been terrible, we've seen on the subway's, that's been videotaped on the streets. eventually the bill still bureaucrats have to lose on this one. you saw what happened with tesla, i know that's up in the san francisco area, but tesla -- >> harris: still california. >> david: elon musk just said, "send me to jail if you want, but i'm going to reopen the plant in fremont." he reopened it, going against the orders of the local bureaucrats, and they caved. he won. they open, they reopened the factory and they are going full bore. they are keeping with all of the safe practices and so forth. the bureaucrats lost on that one. >> harris: well, you know why. >> david: i think they will take their cues from elon musk. to be when i say that's a part of california, but all of california leadership has to watch some of the stories.
texas would take him. there are other states that would take him. melissa, before we quick scoot to a commercial, just a quick thought on the length of time. we've been told there is the second wave coming in the fall. your thoughts? >> melissa: i'm sorry, was that to me? they were in my ear at that moment. >> harris: it was for melissa. >> melissa: it's okay. no, you can't -- as you said, you can't pay all these people's salaries. we have to open up and get people back to work. i don't know what l.a. is going to do, and maybe they will vote for a different government after this, finally. i'm glad i don't live there anymore. >> harris: all right. off to commercially go. "outnumbered" continues in a moment. with va mortgage rates suddenly dropping to near record lows, my team at newday usa is helping more veterans refinance than ever. the newday va streamline refi is the reason why. it lets you shortcut the loan process and refinance with no income verification,
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with td ameritrade tools, and help from pros. it's almost like you're training me to become an even smarter, stronger investor. exactly. ♪(rocky theme music) fifty-six straight, come on! that's it, left trade right trade. come on another trade, i want to see it! more! ♪ 80s-style training montage? yeah. happens all the time. ♪ >> the narrative became, "if you want to go to work, you're on the far right. if you don't want to go to work and you want to stay home,
you're on the far left." not even the mask-wearing is getting politicized. the human factor started to get split, and to the tribe started to fight each other with partisan politics. that's not what we need. this is a collection right now. this is a tug-of-war. we hands on the rope. >> melissa: that's actor matthew mcconaughey urging americans to put partisan politics aside in the fight against this virus. gillian, you and i were talking about this this morning. before politics, maybe as coy by your own personal experience paid someone in my house got sick, they got better. for us, the fear is kind of behind us. i have very good friend who lost her mother-in-law. she is still very fearful. maybe it's personal experience that is covering dom at coloring or point of view. or is it politics? what do you think? >> it's really both. i think matthew mcconaughey put it quite beautifully to bret baier last night. we need all hands on the rope. it's not time to be putting
whatever -- forget politics. it's not a time to be putting your own personal self interests ahead of the rest of america's, quite frankly. i think the degree to which folks have been attacking one another on social media has skyrocketed during this virus. it is, to a certain degree, understandable. everybody's under a lot of heavy duty psychological stress, whether their family members are sick, if they become unemployed or not. the fact of the matter is that he's right and this should be a rallying cry for americans across the board to just be a little bit kinder to one another. it's not that hard. it's about being a good person -- >> david: i think it's too late. i think democrats have decided that's the way they can beat trump on his response of the virus. forget about their own problems with regard to responding and saying things that weren't true, but that's where they're focusing. i wish we could do what he says. i love the guy but i think it's too late. >> melissa: lara, real quick? >> lara: i would say, look at
that spending bill. that is an attempt to put a political agenda into the virus, and into -- if you really care about americans, don't give them a bill they can't pay. >> melissa: all right. thanks to david asman and the rest of the virtual couch. now, here's harris. ♪ >> harris: the trump administration is accusing china of targeting u.s. institutions, working to find a cure for coronavirus. you're watching "outnumbered overtime," am harris faulkner. the dhs and fbi are warning china-linked hackers are attempting to take data from u.s. groups studying covid-19 and potential vaccines and treatment. they want to swipe it. this, just a day after senator lindsey graham introduced a bill to sanction china if it fails to cooperate with the coronavirus inveio