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very different reasons and shows you the challenge trump is fa facing. when we come back, a month since election day and nerves are still pretty raw on both si sides. kelly arne conway from trump world and joel ben nen son from team clinton. as we go to break i want to remember grant tinker, once chairman of nbc. married to mary tyler moore. he revamped nbc with "hill street blues" and "saint elsewhere" and the place where everybody knows your name. make them lighter? that the lubricants that improved fuel economy. even technology to make engines more efficient. what company does all this? exxonmobil, that's who. we're working on all these things to make cars better and use less fuel. helping you save money and reduce emissions.
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welcome back. this week, harvard hosted its traditional election postmortem from winning and losing campaigns, not just the general election, primaries as well. what's typically a reflective second draft of history soon ran hostile as emotions ran highlight. jennifer palmieri accused the website breitbart once run by ceo steve bannon of promoting racist views. >> it's providing a platform for white supremacists. makes me a brilliant tactician i am glad to have lost. >> do you think i ran a campaign where white supremacists had a platform. are you going to look me in the face and say that? >> it did. >> and kellyanne took issue with pollster joel ben nen son for
bringing up clinton's popular vote lead. >> the fact of the matter is more americans voted for hillary clinton than donald trump. >> there is nothing that said the road to popular vote anywhere -- >> i premised my statement by saying that. >> hey, guys, we won. you don't have to respond. >> kellyanne conway and joel n benenson are here now. we will see if there's any more yelling. they both promised there won't be. different versions of the same question, joel let me start with you, are you being sore losers? >> i don't think so. we acknowledged from the start they won, he's president-elect. i was taking issue with the notion there is a mandate and talk about connecting with people over america, hillary clinton had 2.5 million more americans vote for her than donald trump. i'm aware of the kearns currenc
presidential elections, electoral college, i've been on three winning presidential campai campaigns. mandate is when you win big in the popular vote and electoral vote, like president obama did two times. i don't know kellyanne will say president obama had a mandate. >> kellyanne, are you being a sore winner, you've done this a few times, your own twitter bio-now says, we won, like i dropped the mike. >> first of all, i showed great respect to my colleagues across the table for over two hours before this exchange happened. the fact is we are the ones who understood america. the idea we will talk about the popular vote i think answers your question about sore losers. the idea donald trump doesn't have a mandate after he got 100 more electoral votes than mitt romney did, 306 electoral votes, it wasn't close and won states that he hadn't won in decades.
by the way for the popular vote he would have won that, too, california and new york and these population rich states, we do what y're supposed to do to be president. campaign in swing state battleground states and have an economic message that appealed to workers across the country. repealing and replacing obamacare, people open up their mailbox and fire up the computer and see these premium increases. the idea he doesn't have a mandate when on president obama's watch they now lost the white house, 60 seats in the house, over a dozen senate seats and a dozen governorships 1,000 legislat legislators, the democratic party is -- i heard it's jim comey's fault, bernie sanders fault, anybody but hillary clinton's fault. >> a lot of people look at what you've said and others said including the president-elect at his rally and say, team trump,
they can't seem to accept winning, they haven't been gracious in victory. what do you say to that? >> you know what, i'm going to hit back on that. i'm an incredible gly gracious humble person. every single media outlet including this one on good days ignore ed us, on regular days k mocked us including when i told your colleagues there's an undercounted vote for trump. no, there's not, maybe undercounted for hillary. they matter because it pore tends the enthusiasm for donald trump. we're the ones with the message turning these counties around president obama carried price with over 50% of the vote. we switched 200 counties and we did that with messages that a matter people. he's the guy that talked about veterans and defeated terrorism. we were mocked and ignored. look at the headlines two weeks out everywhere. the talk on networks like this,
we were mpletely dismissed. secretary clinton wasn't even mentioning donald trump's name most of the time. >> joe, let me turn to you. she brought up this. it seems we gathered together all the different reasons you and others have given to hillary clinton's defeat. james comey, third party candidates, sexism, young voters, media, obamacare prem m premiums, bernie sanders, health rum rumors. what wasn't on there what kellyanne brought up, hillary clinton, does she accept responsibility on her own. >> reality is this was a strong campaign. kellyanne said they had a better message on the economy. when you looked at voters who said they were voting for people who cares about voters like me, hillary clinton won those. those that said the economy is the number one issue, hillary clinton won those voters. kellyanne talked about his economic message. i think he raised the bar very highlight. this guy built his businesses on
the back of the little guy and now voters will hear him as president call for giving the biggest tax cuts in history to corporations and very wealthy americans. >> you're not answering my question, do you guys accept -- >> he did answer your question. they never 7the e-- accepted. >> i asked in the panel what we had to do different during the cose of the day. the democtic party can't just win the popular vote in presidential elections, we have to do a better job at state levels. they did a good job in states they had to win and did a good job in wisconsin and michigan eking out narrow wins in those states they hadn't won previously. >> let me ask you this, if the election were coming -- i will get you one more shot i promise. if the election were the first tuesday in january and you had another six weeks here, what's the one thing you would do differently in the last four weeks of the campaign? >> probably do more.
>> more? >> i would do more states, hit more states more frequently, probably ask for another debate, probably ask for a fake forum to hear hillary clinton and donald trump -- faith forum to hear hillary clinton and donald trump talk about their faith and her roots i think are dominant and those tax cuts mentioned we will hold him to, twice as big as the bush tax cuts. i don't think that's what working people think they will get from donald trump that will help them. that will be the highlight bar he has to clear. >> kelly arne, i want to ask you this, he went on this thank you tour and will continue it on states he won. does he have a plan? i asked you this before and you haven't really answered it to go to states and meet with voters who didn't vote for him. he is down on the populist. we are a divided country, the california vote counts as much
as the pennsylvania vote. does he have plans to do that? >> he does. i answered the question many times. he started on election night in the wee hours of the night i will be the president for those who did not support me and going around to keep jobs in this country through carrier in indianapolis. he will be an actively traveled president. joel hit on something absolutely correct but wasn't done by his campaign. you have to show up where the people are, you can't have a flood of advertisementin ings i vaunted ground game that didn't work. secretary clinton took off a lot in august. we had 137 events to her 88 or so events after these convent n conventions. donald trump did not take five days off before that final debate in las vegas, secretary clinton did, everybody said she's so brilliant to take off five days, voters looked at that and said, where are you?
c come to me and bring the message. >> he will be a very active president for all in the country. time for those who lost to say he's their president, too. >> you are correct, neither one of you yelled at each other, very respectful. >> this is called the full jersey, we're jersey guys and gals. >> fair enough. >> and new york. thank you both. a little less heated than harvard. in case you missed it just now, hillary clinton lost the election despite winning in the popular vote by 2.5 million and cou counting. coming back, why we may be seeing that kind of result more frequently in the near term. david. what's going on? oh hey! ♪ that's it? yeah. ♪ everybody two seconds! ♪ "dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance..."
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we are back. only five times in american history has the person who won the popular vote not won the presidency. two of those have been in the last five elections since 2000. we might see it happen more frequently in the future. of the six most populist states in the nation, democrats have won california, new york and illinois by double digits since 1992. of the other three, democrats have been making gain is in texas, big-time this cycle, holding their own in super swing state florida, only pennsylvania of the top six seems to be ed edging to the red column. all of this helps explain hillary clinton's growing popular vote margin.
over 2.5 million votes right now. the big reason for the popular vote electoral college split is something we're calling superfluous votes. once a candidate wins a state, it doesn't matter in the electoral college how many votes they win it by. anything more than one is technically unnecessary. by that standard, hillary clinton had 10 million extra votes that made no difference to her electoral college total. donald trump had 8.3 million extra votes despite the fact trump won 30 states while clinton only won 20 plus the district of columbia for a final electoral vote tally of 306 to 232. the democratic strongholds are growing in population and size and more diverse and suggest they would continue to favor democrats in the future. it also means it could be a while until we see a republican win the popular vote again. thatoesn't mean they won't win the presidency because it's in the states in the industrial midwest where this election was decided, pennsylvania, wisconsin
and michigan. if these states continue to be tightly contested with a slight tilt to the right we may continue to see this split between the popular vote and electoral college when republicans win it going forward. democrats have been losing big-time at the congressional level. why did they just elect the same leadership team in charge of the house democrats when they lost 63 house seats in six years?
back now with the panel. back now with the panel. i want to start with you, because democrats had the first shot deciding a new leadership team or stick with the old leadership team. they decided to stick with the old leadership team, when if you just look at the metrics, they didn't seem to earn the right to stay. why do you think they're there? >> i think the change at the top is always the hardest, what you're seeing across the country is more grassroots mobilization of democrats and would be democrats, a third of young voters voted for a third party candidate. there is a royaling prairie fire going on across the country of
activists saying we want democrats with backbone. you have young people sitting in the offices of schumer and a bunch of other folks saying don't shake hands with the right supremacists republican party at this moment. there are trends going on not reaching up to the question of the leadership rules and the congress but that you will start to see in 2017, '18 and prima primaries. there's as much energy at the base of the democratic party as base of the republican party and tea party. >> there's no simple explanation why she wanted the math problem for the democrats. 2-thirds come from the west coast or eastern seaboard. that's the base. the base is not middle of america, tim ryan from rust belt ohio. when we first started in this business there were a lot of southern democrats, midwestern democrats, blue dog democrats, they are gone. >> isn't that the problem given the electoral college? >> it is.
democrats have a geography problem and democrats have a demography problem. geography problem means they will not be back in control of the house. >> republicans want to say, see, democrats have a white working class problem and i see republicans have a latino problem. both things are correct. >> what democrats will likely conclude the way they fly to reach trump voters -- they try to reach trump voters is with bernie sanders style economics. they have a hard time grappling with they have to make a nod to cultural concern of these voters. if bill clinton circa was running this year, someone like colin kaepernick would be right for a sister soldier moment. the least you can do for this country is stand up for the national anthem. no democrat would say that except ruth gator ginsburg and she had to apologize. >> i heard that from other
democrats who don't want to be quoted on record afraid to make the base anger essentially s saying what bill said that a bill clinton would figure out how to close this gap cultur culturally. >> that's partly why particularly young people did not support his wife. we cannot just follow the conservative southern strategy to separate working class people white to working class people of color. this is a moment for democrats and progressives of all sorts to recognize when you have a strategy propping up the 1% by dividine ining everybody else yl always lose always be close marg margins. >> it was a change election. we saw it as early as the new hampshire primaries she was not connecting not just to the working class voters, young people and young women. that generation gap was a major problem for her. >> another thing difficult for democrats, at the end of the bush year, republicans were really ready to move on from bush whereas democrats still
- even parents need a time out sometimes, especially from communications technology. so why not spend one hour totally unplugged? ad, ta, make art, or whatever. no batteries required. end end game time. at that infamous harvard session, both campaign, andrea, you were there, both campaigns didn't passively blame the media, they unloaded on it and made it a central part of the
grievance from winning side on trump and losing side, clinton, is it possible both sides are right zblanc right? >> or wrong. we might have missed it. in terms of coverage, donald trump was live unedited for months and months. he got his 34es sand-- message through. hillary clinton did not get her message through because of e-mail and private server, there is a lot of blame that has not been acknowledged by them for her original decisions and lack of transparency and they didn't have an economic message. a lot of blame but i think the coverage can be faulted from both sides for not being substantive not forcing both sides to talk about issues. >> i know where you will be on the quote unque liberal media, do clinton people have a case? would you be angry at the media? >> trump got extraordinary
direct access to the media? in the general election a lot of the coverage was extremely hostile. kelly arne is right, broadly spe speaking, people like us, for a solid year, treated them like idi idiots. it's understandable having pulled this extraordinary upset off they 3450imight feel triump about it. >> part of the thing of the media going in the 23450ig9 before the election is it was pretty much impossible for trump to win you had 25% of voters who cast that ballot and didn't think he was fit for president. you had a sense there was a protest vote even within the trump vote when people were looking at those polls, this will be a message. i will send a message because clinton is obviously going to win. >> do you think in 20 years when historians look back on this will media's role be as highlight or celebrity culture, trump took advantage of a
cultural moment? >> there will be a million vo ls written about this. the clkt campaign talked about this and trump campaign talked. we don't need the media, we like to go around the media, we have twitter and texting and facebook. we can make end rounds around the media. the second thing the media has done very poorly, sorry,ake congress inept. >> that's all right. i've got to go. that's all right. we'll try to a flert the affiliate. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." post game sponsored by boeing, on the "meet the press" facebook page.
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